>tfw your history teacher tells your class war movies and grand strategy games have "militarized" your minds
>tfw your history teacher tells you that military history or war history isn't going to be taught in the class so the class can be "demilitarized" by the time they leave
>tfw your history teacher uses the words "plugging the school to militarization pipeline" describing her class
>>1032968
History without wars is boring
>tfw your college prof tries to convince the class that the space program was faked by a Jewish conspiracy
Well, you better tell her that microhistory ain't got shit on positivistic history and that she better starts teaching you about great persons and great events before you delve into historicism.
>tfw your history teacher was member of the Party
>tfw she said that holodomor never happened
>tfw she said that nazis were killing anyone who wasn't blonde with blue eyes
>tfw she genuinely thought that Poland won the WW2
>>1032968
>mfw my philosophy professor spends an entire week attempting to demonstrate that 9/11 was an inside job
Not a single one of us protested, and we engaged in serious discussion on the topic. I was honestly flabbergasted, just stunned that the curriculum was passed after review.
>tfw you had a prof who kept calling both protestant and catholic Christianity "oppressive discourses" or "hegemonic narratives"
>tfw when your history teachrr thinks war of attrition and pyrrhic victory are the same thing
>tfw she thinks it was because of a battle between sparta and athens and one athenian was left
>mfw i don't want to seem like a dick so i just sit there
>>1032968
I bet he's a NU male
>>1033012
military history is literally the only reason why i like history
>>1032968
Report him to authorities
Depending on how old his students are he could be foreign spy or traitor trying to make children unpatriotic
>>1033046
that's not how you do things in a free society where people are allowed to express their opinions, buddy
>>1033057
Freedom is shit though.
>>1032968
How the fuck do you teach American history then.
"JESUS WENT TO AMERICA, WROTE A BOOK IN EGYPTIAN HIEROGLYPHS, AND THE ANGEL MORONI TOLD THIS TO A CONFIDENCE TRICKSTER AND KNOWN LIAR AND THIS WAS HOW AMERICA WAS BORN?"
Mormonism isn't even real, for fuck's sake.
>When the history teacher won't teach you any history, only what a Primary source and a Secondary source is for the entire year.
>The only thing I remember was the grauballe man
Important points, but drilling this into us killed any interest I had in history.
Anyone else suffer this?
>>1033067
>How the fuck do you teach American history then.
1. Slavery
2. Civil Right Movement
3. Obama
That's basically how we encompassed US history in my highschool
It was in English class (Im French), we learned English through studying US history (well, the parts mentionned)
>tfw your history prof is an angry Catholic neo-monarchist who tells protestant, atheist and jewish students they're damned for hell, and says he wishes the American revolutionaries and English reformers had been castrated and hanged
>tfw half the lectures are in Spanish because your prof says it's the language of "real men, with real family values" and calls English "the tongue of savages"
>>1032998
haha what. how is that philosophy?
>>1033096
Might have been a demonstration of the postmodern "anything can be true because reality is just made of discourses and ideologies" thought line
>>1033086
Sounds based
>tfw your philosophy lecturer says at the beginning of the quarter he won't write anyone a letter of reference because "school isn't supposed to be a factory for worker drones"
>tfw your philosophy lecturer tells students with jobs they should quit so they can be free and individual
>tfw he also says students who get jobs out of college are "mindless failures", "can't think for themselves", "love being oppressed" etc
>>1033080
Can't do slavery without the Civil War famerino
>>1033155
Sounds like my kind of guy
>>1032968
>>tfw your history teacher tells your class war movies and grand strategy games have "militarized" your minds
>teacher tells your class... grand strategy games...
Things that never happened, the OP
>>1033155
Does he refuse to take pay for teaching and live in a barrel? Otherwise, sounds like a typical hypocritical humanities professor.
>>1033086
>tfw 99% made up story
>>1033181
Diogenes would walk right past that dishonest faggot teacher
>>1033086
Un excelente profesor.
>>1033013
>Reading comprehension level: Kindergarten
>>1033086
>Catholics are still assmad about Henry telling them to fuck off
>Spain is still assmad about getting BTFO by England
>>1032978
>>1033080
I wut.
Without the Revolutionary War, there wouldn't even be an America to begin with.
And while the Civil Rights Movement had its roots in slavery, it wasn't until after TWO World wars and a civil war which siwed the seeds for that to happen.
How in the world did you even learn how all of that happened without any context whatsoever.
>Her
Found the problem.
>Tfw your history teacher says the Praetorian Guard was made of "elite viking warriors"
>Tfw your history teacher says the Romans avoided conquering Sparta
>Tfw your history teacher said Spartans defeated an army of Vandals sacking Constantinople in AD428
>Tfw your history teacher said Rome could field 60k troops at the height of the Empire
>Tfw your history teacher said the Gladius was 6 inches long
>Tfw your history teacher says the EU was formed to restore the glory of the Roman Empire
What the fuck do I even do?
>>1033260
Quote Voltaire.
>>1033057
Tell that to the Texas school board
>>1033260
>Tfw your history teacher says the Praetorian Guard was made of "elite viking warriors"
How the fuck do they let someone who doesn't know the difference between 4th century Roman Republic and 10th century Byzantine Empire teach about Rome?
>>1033065
T. Godless commie bastard
>>1033086
Muy bueno jajaja
>>1033086
> the laziest nationality in the history of the world having anything to say about being manly
>>1033438
they conquered Mexico with a handful of guys.
Can't call me a spaniard lover either, i'm Alberto Barbosa. They have been our main enemy for centuries, and you can call them many things, stupid, intolerant, and lazy. But you can't call them cowards. Bravery is their one quality.
>>1033438
Spaniards are the laziest? C'mon now
>>1033241
To be fair, when I learned French history in a US school as part of World History class it was
>Based Lafeyette
>French Revolution
>WWI
>WWII
Those things were kind of taught in a vacuum. It's not like we covered the Franco Prussian war to discuss French history in WWI.
A history class shouldn't be soley centered around war. That would be stupid. If you were to take American history from 1980 to now and center the discussion on war you would learn very little about America.
>>1032968
Almost all major societal changes throughout our history have come from war. The fug.
>>1033260
>Gladius 6 inches long
How the hell does that even work?
>>1033222
>mistaking biological and identified gender
don't ever talk to me or my wife's son again
>>1032968
>tfw when I had a high school teacher who said the Armenian Genocide never happened.
>history professor
>openly expressing biases and omitting history because of biases
literally scum
War is an integral aspect of history, its got nothing to do with militarization or the military-industrial complex or whatever the fuck, its about understanding & interpreting the who what where when and whys of history. You cant do that for pretty much every period in human history because pretty much every period in human history has had wars define it to a degree.
>>1033462
I can underatand the vaccuum part
But did your teacher or you textbook at least give the context in passing?
>>1033057
im guessing your american but if not correct me
last i checked pushing ones political position on students as a teacher is illegal
>senior seminar course
>research anything
>only requirement is using an archive based source
>write paper
>she says it didn't meet the basic requirements if the class
I'm storming her office on Monday, what kind of self riteous douchebag prevents someone from graduating?!
>>1032977
>History without wars is boring
History without wars is limited in scope because wars are kind of important
>>1033187
did he died?
Real talk though my two least favourite history teachers were female. One was a fat jew who just kinda ignored most of the class. Giving alot of attention to a small circle of students. She was also a big Dr Who and BBT fan.
The other was an old lesbian who was big on the history of sexuality and gender roles. She was alright I guess, but I couldn't of given less of a shit about the shit she was teaching.
>Random user complaining about not having seen enough wars in the school
Not surprised.
>>1032968
>tfw history teacher sent you to the cotton fields to teach you about slavery
>tfw history teacher made you walk 1000 li to experience the long march first hand
>tfw history teacher made you spend a week camping in a ditch while he shot fireworks at you to simulate WW1
>tfw history teacher would designate students to be his 'secret police' and they would wedgie those who submitted essays he disagreed with, but they ended up just wedgieing whoever they personally disliked while the teacher turned a blind eye
>tfw he made all the nerdy kids wear giant badges because "that's how the jews were treated in Germany."
>>1033963
sounds pretty based desu.
>>1033966
It was pretty cool bullying the nerds.
That is until we started learning about the nuremberg trials.
This hole thread triggers me.
How the fuck are these cunts allowed to teach?
>>1033885
He deserved it if so.
>>1033970
>teacher wants to teach you about zimbabwe
>he's replaced by Mr Johnson, the PE Teacher who knows nothing about history
>bullied by the black students until you are forced to leave class
>enjoying military history
ha
ha
ha
Literally the most pleb aspect of history. It's just recitation of dates and events, there's no analysis or depth.
>TFW only history teacher worth a damn was a literal and unapalogetic 7" tall cultural marxist who was genuinely a Viet-nam-era hippie who unironically owned and quoted from a copy of Mao's Little Red Book
An interesting experience, desu
>>1034019
bullshit
>tfw learning about Chinese History
>Can't do too well otherwise the teacher will send you to learn from the Chinese peasents
>>1034019
but you get to act it out with miniatures or office supplies
granted you can do it with other aspects of history, but it's less dynamic
>>1033515
Good thing nobody has suggested that.
>>1032968
Are professors the only people in academia with these far out bordering on retarded beliefs?
Well, she's right. You're a fucking idiot if you seriously think that a basic video-game level of tactical vocabulary and familiarity with the names of a few generals in a few wars is the same as knowledge of history.
>>1033881
>wars are kind of important
Wars are the most important, in my honest opinion. Nothing is more world changing than wars.
>>1034205
What makes you think that's true?
>tfw Biochem professor launches into a rant about 9/11 being faked and nobody calls him out on it because his brother died in one of the towers
>50 min we should have been going over amino acids were spent dissecting how fast the towers had fallen and why WTC 7 collapsed when nothing was hittin it
>mfw he comes in the following day like nothing had happened
>>1034208
Because wars, especially the big ones of focus such as the Thirty Years War, Napoleonic Wars, and obviously the World Wars have decided the political fate of the countries that participate, and then again of those who do or did not.
Everything within an operating country is the matter of politics above it. War is what happens when politics can go no further. That is why, I believe.
>mfw half of my history professors have told us all to pay attention to tabloids because they're as reliable as the mainstream media
>mfw this is part of my justification for browsing /pol/
>>1034220
That seems pretty stupid, though. Are you saying the most important changes happen during wartime?
>>1034225
they are
are you saying they are not?
>>1033260
>Tfw your history teacher said Rome could field 60k troops at the height of the Empire
How a history teacher be this delusion. There were 80k at the battle of Cannae alone.
>>1034025
>unironically owned and quoted from a copy of Mao's Little Red Book
One of our members of Parliament has quoted from it in a speech.
>>1034250
>Economic change is the actual substance of history
>Wars, especially in terms of the composition of armies, are caused by changes in economic structures and attitude
Yes, because the largest wars of all time, and thus the most catastrophic and overall affective ones, were all based on economic changes.
Yeah, and I'm the illiterate one.
>>1034267
What do you mean by 'based on' and what's your point? It honestly seems like you're supporting mine. What you've said is true. The 30 Years War was a consequence of class conflict between Protestant nobles benefiting from early capitalism and the Catholic Church's clerical grip over the HRE. The Cold War was a competition for control over various economic zones and a contest in keeping an economy expanding at a faster rate than the other side of the world. WWII was largely caused by the Great Depression, and also by the economic conditions forced on Germany by the Treaty of Versailles; the Pacific War was entirely about resources and the Japanese need to expand the Empire to sustain the production of its military.
I ask you again: what is your point?
>>1034279
Not the guy you're responding to, but I'm still not sure how you're making a point against teaching war as an important part of history - you're just arguing economics is the catalyst for war. If war is competition based on economics, then surely it logically follows that whoever wins that war/how that war is conducted is going to have some impact on the economic landscape.
>>1034284
>you're just arguing economics is the catalyst for war.
I'm not using a hamfisted analogy like that, I'm arguing that war is not the most important thing in history or in the study of history.
>If war is competition based on economics, then surely it logically follows that whoever wins that war/how that war is conducted is going to have some impact on the economic landscape.
Irrelevant. As important as what is destroyed in war is what is built up in the time between wars and what happens off the battlefield, outside of command hierarchies, and outside of supply lines during wars.
>>1033563
but it didn't
>>1034288
Ah I see. Well, to add to the debate, I imagine the reasons wars are honed in on is because they're the visible outcome of economic change - which (although enlighten me if I'm wrong) I imagine is a lot harder to quantify and track than wars.
In any case, and on a less academic level, it's relatively easy to know why historians focus on wars - they're the soap operas of history. They have all of the excitement and colourful characters. For obvious reasons it just captures people more.
>>1034165
That's true. So instead the teacher should be teaching them proper millitary history. Simply ignoring it will allow misconceptions of war to fester.
>>1034304
>I imagine the reasons wars are honed in on is because they're the visible outcome of economic change
They're discussed because they're significant events in and of themselves. It's absurd, however, to try to act as if military history is *THE* essence of history and *THE* area wherein historical reason is expected to demonstrate its powers.
>They have all of the excitement and colourful characters. For obvious reasons it just captures people more.
I think a more obvious reason is that an idiot who thinks military history is and should be the center of historical focus is more likely to join an army voluntarily. The "soap operas of history" are the daily lives of ordinary people.
>>1034310
Who cares if children have misconceptions about war? It isn't the duty of the school system to produce soldiers. We have armies for that. Students in school should be educated on how to maintain the country in the future, not on how to fight a war.
Fucking idiot.
>>1034279
>The 30 Years War was a consequence of class conflict between Protestant nobles benefiting from early capitalism and the Catholic Church's clerical grip over the HRE.
>class conflict between Protestant nobles benefiting from early capitalism
>Protestant nobles benefiting from early capitalism
Seriously? In short, The 30 Years War was entirely about political and religious power. At the beginning it was about religious control, and by the end, it was entirely about political control - they didn't even invite the Papacy to the peace signing in Westphalia because one of the largest developments of the war was European nations now showing the papacy that they were in control of their nations - not him.
>The Cold War was a competition for control over various economic zones and a contest in keeping an economy expanding at a faster rate than the other side of the world.
That's a part of the Cold War. I think you're decisively avoiding my point to assert your own here. The main target of the Cold War was politics, not economics. Economics is certainly a part under politics, but not the main and most important driving force. The two main blocs being obviously the US and USSR certainly wanted economic cooperation around the world from their own allies and partners, trying to get as many as possible, but economics is only decided by overhead politics.
1/2
>>1034279
2/2
>WWII was largely caused by the Great Depression, and also by the economic conditions forced on Germany by the Treaty of Versailles.
>WWII was largely caused by the Great Depression
>caused by the Great Depression
I'm not even going to acknowledge this. This is truly your stupidest point, and you've clearly never even opened a fucking book or sat in a lecture before.
>the Pacific War was entirely about resources and the Japanese need to expand the Empire to sustain the production of its military.
What an annoyingly and ignorantly America-centric opinion. Sure, the Americans had once been important trade partners for the Japanese and the Japs needed that connection, and were angered by the US dropping it on them, but how can you so ignorantly disregard all of the Japanese expansion throughout the South Pacific Asian countries and their entire war in China, which mind you, was far more massive than the one in the Pacific? The Pacific War had numbers in the thousands, whilst the Sino-Japanese one had them in the millions. That war was entirely based on Japanese expansionism, whilst the Pacific War was started by Japan by trying to bloody America's nose, and as a threat to keep them out of the war (certainly a stupid and foolish 'threat' which backfired tremendously upon the Japs).
>>1034320
>Seriously?
Yes, you ought to read about it sometime.
> The main target of the Cold War was politics, not economics.
Fucking comical. Read a book.
>>1034321
> but how can you so ignorantly disregard all of the Japanese expansion throughout the South Pacific Asian countries and their entire war in China
But that's literally what I was referring to, you fucking idiot. Did you seriously think I was suggesting that Pearl Harbor was part of a Japanese plot to annex Hawaii for resources?
>>1034319
What the fuck are you talking about? Do you seriously think it's healthy to have a nation full of people who know nothing about war? Do you want people to vote without understanding what war entails or the gravity of its consequences? How can you even teach history while skipping over wars?
>>1034331
>How can you even teach history while skipping over wars?
I don't understand why you think teaching children about a war means teaching children how to fight in one.
>>1034334
Where did I imply the teacher needs to teach kids how to fight a war?
I feel like either you or I misunderstand the term "war history"
>>1034338
What should they be taught, then?
>>1033847
well, what did you write about? maybe your paper just sucks.
>>1034222
Tabloids are more reliable than mainstream media because they'll report EVERYTHING, regardless of biases.
>>1034341
Students should be taught about why wars were fought, what it's like to live through war, how the war was won or lost, and the consequences of the war.
The technical details of the war aren't as important as the effects of the war on ordinary people, society, economics, etcetera.
>>1032968
war movies and strategy games are historically inaccurate, but she is probably referring to post-modern spooks
>>1034279
>WWII was largely caused by the Great Depression, and also by the economic conditions forced on Germany by the Treaty of Versailles
Nah, WW2 was caused by German butthurt. Treaty of Versallies didn't change shit economically because it was never actually enforced, Weimar Republic has paid a tiny fraction of what they should've paid.
What happened was that bunch of retarded "PRUSSIA PRO" faggots wanted "revenge" for war they've started and lost.
>>1034374
All of which is meaningless if it isn't placed in a proper context within the histories of the nations fighting the war.
>>1034386
What a retarded post.
>>1034389
>t. PRUSSIA PRO
>>1034388
Yes, I was assuming that these would be taught in the wider context of a curriculum covering more than just the wars themselves.
>>1034394
If you want to read a book by a Jewish Communist that makes this same argument, you should check out Hobsbawm's Age of Extremes.
>>1033963
>tfw your history teacher collected Roman armor and had you and your class stand in the school courtyard in armor and hit each other with swords to simulate gladiator fights and Roman battles or duels
>tfw he required you to bark military commands and pleas of surrender in Latin the whole time
>>1034400
>JEWISH COMMUNISM
>LET'S REV UP ALL FREEMASONS WE CAN AND DO PRUSSIA PRO ON THEM
>>1034136
No, some of the students are pretty ridiculous too. Uni staff and admin can be pretty weird too but they're easier to keep their distance from
>>1034326
No, but you did very clearly only mention the Pacific War, thus in my interpretation of names, the US part.
>>1034323
I have read plenty. I highly suggest this one. http://www.amazon.com/Cold-War-Documents-Eyewitness-Accounts/dp/0199272808
Yeah, because every single one of my professors who has ever mentioned any of these wars in great detail, was sure to emphasize to us that economics was the root of all of these!
>>1034406
t. Pierre Dumasse
>>1032968
my high school's history teachers all loved teaching violence in comparison
in world history class, we studied wars most and watched all quiet on the western front
in AP US history class, the major focus of the class was the four major wars the United States was involved in (revolutionary war, civil war, world war 1 and 2)
AP European history teacher made us read and study terms from the entire 1000 page book, but I got a 4 on the exam after not studying that well for it and after the AP exam we watched high fantasy movies for the remainder of the year. still remember stuff about the 30 years war and the napoleonic wars
>>1034413
> thus in my interpretation of names,
Maybe I used the wrong word, it still should have been obvious what I was referring to from the context of my post.
>Yeah, because every single one of my professors who has ever mentioned any of these wars in great detail, was sure to emphasize to us that economics was the root of all of these!
All of my professors have certainly done that.
>>1034415
>U FRENCH
>t. PRUSSIA PRO
>>1034423
Do you have an argument to counter Hobsbawm's, or are you going to continue engaging in /int/-tier banter until you get tired?
>taking a class on Japanese pop culture
>Prof makes a point about how anime and manga subtly promote Fascism and xenophobic attitudes
>>1034430
>subtly
>tfw your prof tells your class of maybe 60% wealthy foreign expat students they should abolish all wealth so rich people stop exploiting them
>>1034419
Enjoy your degree from the University of Phoenix.
>>1034460
Enjoy your butthurt.
>>1033002
Critical theory, right?
>>1033002
>tfw you had a professor who spent a significant portion of class talking making fun of the Sacrament of Penance and making light of religion in general while telling her story of how she came to accept her essence as a gay woman and left the oppressive Church
>>1033526
>yo girl my dick like a gladius
>>1033080
> This is how a person bitter about public education talks.
Not that you shouldn't be a little bitter about it, but...
Do you really mean to tell me they didn't cover the revolutionary war, or the gilded age, or industrialism, luddites, company towns, the types of industrial integration, or the Louisiana purchase, or the Trail of Tears, or Neoliberal economic theory under Reagan, or counterculture, or the Korean and Vietnam wars, or the Civil War, or Reconstruction, or Jim Crow laws that became the context of the civil rights movement, or any of that shit? Our war with the Spanish? The Panama canal? World War I? World War II?
Nunnadatshit?
>William the Conqueror brought Christianity to England
>>1033080
No wonder the French hate us so much, they're only exposed to the most obnoxious memes and the most obnoxious memers.
>>1033333
Quints confirmed
>>1033187
When did Jim Carrey get gored by a bull?
>>1034464
I'm not remotely butthurt. The only thing that 'hurts' me remotely at all right now is your absolute stupidity. Never before have I ever heard anyone try to argue something so ridiculous. Of note, I've had history professors who've gotten their degrees at schools like Cambridge, Harvard, and one I know went to Oxford for his PhD. Economics was certainly not the root of these wars, but, it is the root of your own foolish stupidity.
>>1032968
>Listen to all these stories by western people on 4chan about their history lessons.
>Hear shit like "black history month." or weird shit like spending a whole semester studying on a minority's history.
>Wonder if your country's historical education curriculum is either:
1) Better than the west
2) The west knows something we don't and we're actually behind.
I wish you guys stop being weird.
>Racism and nationalism is a consequence to imperialism
>>1034533
That's weird because "politics and religion" were the meme-tier reasons for the 30 Years War that I got in high school. I'm pained by your appeal to authority. I have historiography and theory on my side, you have juvenile interpretations of a few complex phenomena that you think are somehow divorced from economic reality.
>>1034019
Yeah but it's far more engaging than
>the black death swept through and killed everybody
>>1034539
Here in america, the only real saving grace is that if you know where to look, you can find extremely good teachers, or mountains of good books.
>>1032968
Please tell me this is a high school. I was already worried that I would get a corrupted education at uni and every one that I have visited is a sjw cesspool.
>>1034386
>Nah, WW2 was caused by German butthurt. Treaty of Versallies didn't change shit economically because it was never actually enforced, Weimar Republic has paid a tiny fraction of what they should've paid.
While this is true, Germany was still in a shitty economical situation during the interwar
Simply, it was because of the Great Depression rather than because of Versailles
>>1034541
>appeal to authority
>I have historiography and theory on my side
Yeah, and I have facts on mine.
>>1034563
>it was because of the Great Depression
Holy shit, there are some stupid motherfuckers on this website.
>>1034565
I do, too. The difference between you and me is that I know that someone can be acting on genuine religious convictions, or have political aspirations, and still be bound by their economic situation and its context.
>>1034566
Do you have a counterargument?
>>1033155
Based professor
Wagecucks BTFO
>>1034568
It's like your implying that I denied the importance of economics, which I very clearly did not. All I said is that it was inarguably subordinate to politics in the reason to why war's happen.
>tfw your Jewish philosophy professor starts advocating mass immigration as a way to bring about a desirable distribution of justice in a country
>>1034571
Yeah, try German expansionism in Europe, and German colonial competition from before World War One. Surely, economics are related and a part of this, but you can't seriously deny that political wills are a lesser reason.
>>1034574
I think that's a very contestable position, though. In what sense is the economy subordinate to politics? Why can't we just legislate our way out of our present economic woes?
>>1033155
He's fucking right about every one of those.
Now back to your cubicle, worker ant, Schlomo Shekelstein needs a new BMW
>>1034582
>Now back to your cubicle, worker ant, Schlomo Shekelstein needs a new BMW
>>1034579
Nobody is denying that, you're reading that where nobody has said it. You seem to be under the impression that the state has absolute control over the economy. I don't understand why you think that.
>>1034386
>Treaty of Versallies didn't change shit economically because it was never actually enforced, Weimar Republic has paid a tiny fraction of what they should've paid.
Ever heard of hyperinflation and the Ruhr occupation?
>>1032978
>great persons
>great events
Everyone who isn't a Historiographical Marxist should leave /his/ and join /b/.
>>1034598
This
>>1034566
I assume you're some Germanboo who think Versailles was harsh?
>>1034613
I assume you're some frog?
The fact of the matter is that I've never encountered a book or professor taking your position.
>>1034595
>hyperinflation
Caused by the US-spawned Great Depression
>Ruhr occupation
Didnt last long enough to get Germany to repay 1/4 of what they owed
>>1034617
The Great Depression caused economical crisis all over the world
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression#Effects
Only a tard would assume that for Germany and Germany only, it totally wasnt caused by it but rather by the unenforced WW1 reparations.
People who claim that are literally just spouting Hitler's propaganda 80 years later
>>1034621
Seems like you're missing the point.
>>1034621
The German hyperinflation was years before the Great Depression you fucking retard and the economic implications of the Ruhr occupation and the Versailles Treaty go beyond the simple amount that Germany paid
Go discuss a historical period that you have even an elementary understanding of, if there is such a thing.
>>1034629
>People who claim that are literally just spouting Hitler's propaganda 80 years later
I tell you again to read Hobsbawm's Age of Extremes, which was literally written by a Jew who joined the Communist Party so he could get in street fights with Nazis.
>Chinese History
>Its just facts about how many tens of millions died in one event after another
Glorious.
Versailles is responsible for WW2 in that it didnt dismantle Germany
That's all
Everything about economical matters is bullshit, reparations werent high and Germany didnt pzay them anyway
>>1034561
the attitudes and worldview you see in college depends on the uni, and also depends on your major.
At mine Geography was full of labor rights activists, Economics was full of Hayek fans, and History was full of upper crusts
>>1034649
t. Foch
>>1034613
Germanboo? No. My favourite meal is schnitzel and Germany is an interesting country for sure. Versailles certainly was harsh, especially in context. If you look into late colonial history, you'll see that Germany was trying to achieve the same imperial power as Britain and France, who were essential an Age of Empire's game age ahead of Germany. The French killed and displaced about a million people in Morrocco and Algeria over a 45 year period in the latter half of the 19th century. Why do we never consider this to be evil and bad, nor that France is ever a bad guy, yet Germany fighting the opposite side of a war from them two decades later is the most evil nation on earth?
>>1034617
>The fact of the matter is that I've never encountered a book or professor taking your position.
Mfw there's another actually intelligent person arguing alongside me against this autist.
>>1034649
> reparations werent high and Germany didnt pzay them anyway
How many Frenchmen are there on this site?
>>1034662
Thanks for the support, mang :)
>prof is a massive Russiaboo
>'by 1890 Russia was producing more steel, and building more railways than Britain, France, Germany and the USA'
>>1033086
Absolutely based
>>1034673
>Russia has the biggest steelworks in the world by the time the Revolution happens
>They have to bring materials to the factory by oxcart because their infrastructure is so shit
>mfw
Do people use the words "professor" and "teacher" interchangeable? Because the shit you guys are saying are some pretty serious business. A professor is literary the head teacher at a university, they're the public face outwards and the one responsible for legitimizing the research done and being in touch with the research done at other universities.
A philosophy professor talking about 9/11 being an inside job? A professor talking about Spanish as a language for "real men?
Why haven't you niggers gone about and blackmailed these people yet?
>>1034250
Economic development is heavily influenced by technological development, which is heavily influenced by wars.
>>1034681
Being "heavily influenced" means fuck all since there's so many variables. While technological development is heavily influenced by war, war is also heavily influenced by technological development, that's in turn heavily influenced by economic development.
>>1034662
B-BUT THEY DIDN'T MEAN TO DO IT!
>>1034662
>yet Germany fighting the opposite side of a war from them two decades later is the most evil nation on earth?
Wut?
No one declared them evil
They started (pic related) and lost the war, of course they had to pay reparations
Nothing to do with evilness
>>1034634
I don't really like Hobsbawm but it's pretty obvious the major cause behind the rise of nazism in Germany was economic hardship.
>>1034681
Modern wars, maybe. Even there, technological development goes hand in hand with economic development. The Americans beat the Nazis to production of atomic weapons for largely economic reasons, having to do with the acquisition of fissile material and the manufacture of bombs. Technological diffusion is different from technological development.
>>1034698
>that editing
Nice
>>1034698
>No one declared them evil
The Treaty of Versailles was all punishment on the half of Germany, making Germany out to be this demonic barbaric nation, unlike Britain and France, who were of course the writers of the history books.
It wasn't just reparations.It was blame, and humiliation.
>>1034700
My opponent keeps calling me a Prussiaboo or a Germaniboo, so I want to use a source he might be more willing to accept.
>>1034681
>>1034698
>No one declared them evil
The Treaty of Versailles was basically unprecedented, in terms of the scope of its demands.
>>1034617
>The fact of the matter is that I've never encountered a book or professor taking your position.
Wait I'm sort of losing track of who said what here. Are you seriously suggesting that there are no books or professors who would claim that the Great Depression was not one of the key factors in the rise of extremist factions in Germany, namely the national socialists? Or have I just lost myself in all this High Level Of Discourse (TM).
>>1034711
That's wrong, imbecile
Just look at the what was imposed on Austria-Hungary or the Ottoman Empire, and tell me Germany had it harsh
>>1034711
The Brest-Litevsk treaty was much more harsh. Arguably so were St Germain/Trianon in terms of basically dismembering a country, something that did not happen to Germany.
>>1034679
a lot of the people talked about here are probably part timers or adjuncts at community colleges, who are interchangeably called "teacher", "instructor", and "professor"
>>1034705
The Treaty of Versailles was making Germany repay for the destruction they caused in Belgium, Luxembourg and Northern France in that war they started
Nothing more
>historical 'good' & 'bad' guys exist
>>1034714
>Are you seriously suggesting that there are no books or professors who would claim that the Great Depression was not one of the key factors in the rise of extremist factions in Germany, namely the national socialists?
When I say I've never encountered one, I literally mean I've never encountered one. Maybe I have and I can't remember it, but really, I can't think of a reason why that thesis would be taken seriously even if such a book exists. Every history professor, and teacher on any level, that I've had has emphasized that economic factors played an important role in the rise of extremism of various kinds in Germany.
>>1034715
>imbecile
Again, I'm just telling you what every single source I've encountered has told me.
>>1034722
Oh, I see--the Bolsheviks are supposed to be paragons of virtue, too, just like France.
>>1034729
it's understandable to say that the Nazis were objectively bad guys desu
>>1034727
>they started
You're lying, a Serbian started the war.
>>1034540
>>Racism and nationalism is a consequence to imperialism
>Nationalism being bad in the first place
If you swap is with was, the bit about racism would at least be correct, though misleading, as it didn't have to happen.
>>1034729
>Soviets weren't badguys
Moral relativism a shit.
>>1034733
>Every history professor, and teacher on any level, that I've had has emphasized that economic factors played an important role in the rise of extremism of various kinds in Germany.
Yes, that was my point - I was getting the impression that you are arguing AGAINST it. Like, saying that the Great Depression was NOT a key factor in the rise of nazism. Hence my genuine confusion, I was genuinely lost in the posts and that's what I thought was going on here.
>>1034740
The Soviet Union was a state.
There were a lot of bad people living in it. It was subordinate to these peoples' ideas.
It wasn't 'evil.' The US wasn't 'good.'
>>1034736
You mean a Bosnian who considered himself a pan-yugo?
>>1034744
No, I'm one of the few people here who wants to discuss the economy rather than talk shit about Germans.
>>1034733
>Again, I'm just telling you what every single source I've encountered has told me.
So basically, you're telling us that you werre taught meme history and that it's an excuse for your ignorance?
>Oh, I see--the Bolsheviks are supposed to be paragons of virtue, too, just like France.
There he goes again
You claimed that Versailles was the harshest shit ever, and upon being proven wrong you just go full "b-but the Soviets deserved it!!!" despite the fact you argued a short while before that Germany shouldnt have been pushined that harsh regardless of their actions...
>>1034747
I mean Gavrilo Princip, who was certainly not German.
>>1034751
How exactly can one single man who has no power to declare war, start a war?
>>1034736
I bet you think Bin Laden started the Iraq War....
>>1034740
The Soviet Union has some far left apologists but unlike the Nazi regime the Soviet Union lasted longer and had a lot more leaders with different administrations. The Soviets get talked about like every Soviet leadership era = Stalin, when Kruschev and Gorbachev were both reformers. However it's stupid to talk about the Soviet Union like it only exists to be a rhetorical crutch for opinionated right wingers, instead of studying it as a real thing in history.
>>1034750
>So basically, you're telling us that you werre taught meme history and that it's an excuse for your ignorance?
I can only assume you're doing the same.
>You claimed that Versailles was the harshest shit ever, and upon being proven wrong you just go full "b-but the Soviets deserved it!!!"
I'm not even talking in terms of desert here, you fucking mongrel. I'm talking about economic impact. I don't understand why you're trying to moralize here, this is about what happened in Germany because of the treaty, not whether or not anyone deserved to be punished for anything. That's an entirely separate discussion that we can certainly have. First, though, please learn to differentiate between economic and moral analysis.
>>1034580
He claimed that politics was more important than economics as a reason why wars happen. You canot then conclude that politics somehow has supreme power over economic situations, and he did not claim that.
>>1034771
>He claimed that politics was more important than economics as a reason why wars happen.
Right, and I have yet to see a reason to believe that.
>You canot then conclude that politics somehow has supreme power over economic situations, and he did not claim that.
I'd like to know what he's actually claiming, then, because I'm unsure what he means.
>>1034679
Might be an american thing
>>1034777
You're a cretin if you think the assassination was the cause rather than a convenient excuse
>>1034784
I think he meant that politics (as in political disagreements) are a bigger reason for war than economic issues. Im not sure though, just pointed out the misunderstanding.
>>1034799
There were plenty of causes.
That was one of them.
German expansionism was another, but every country in Europe had been expansionist for a long time. You're literally only making the arguments you're making because you're French. If I'm wrong about that, then I don't even know what could be motivating you to argue so stubbornly about this.
>>1034220
Luther refusing to recant at the Diet of Worms was more influential than the entire 30 years war.
War can be influental, but intellectual shifts are as, if not more, important.
>>1034791
In the US "professor" is used colloquially to refer to anyone who teaches at a college or post-secondary level
>>1034747
>Bosnian
Half of Bosnia was Serbian and so was Gavrilo Princip
>>1034815
Thats just silly from my perspective
>>1034809
>If I'm wrong about that, then I don't even know what could be motivating you to argue so stubbornly about this.
Maybe the same reasons that make you blindly defend and excuse Germany's behavior despite not being German
>>1034825
Do you even understand what this argument is about? It's about whether or not Versailles was partially responsible for WWII. The points you've been making have nothing at all do with that. I'm not 'defending' Germany, I'm trying to get you to argue about the same thing I am, which is the fucking economy, not morality.
>>1034866
>It's about whether or not Versailles was partially responsible for WWII
>partially
Oh really now?
Most people tried to imply it was the main reason
If we go the "partially" way, then any peace treat, regardless how harsh, would do it since the Germans would be butthurt about having lost and seek revenge anyway
>>1034242
There were close to 400,000 at the Battle of Philippi, without counting Fulvian and Pompeian rebels in other parts of the empire.
>>1034575
>tfw your history teacher in high-school said we'd be a minority in our own city (and country) in 50 years
>>1034876
>Most people tried to imply it was the main reason
The only alternative cause you've offered is "German butthurt."
>>1034487
Public schools in the US are garbage. I had a gf who thought Italy was a state.
>>1033158
oh they do
>>1034895
And the Great Depression
Hitler falls in the butthurt category (his national pride was hurt, he wanted revenge) and the people he tricked into electing him mostly fall in the other category (they were impoverished by the Great Depression and desperate for change)
>>1032968
>tfw I snitch on such teachers to the principal so they lose they're job, securing therefor mine
>>1034895
>Implying Germans didn't elect a person who believed in a form of race-based nationalism requiring large territories in order to propagate the German race
>Implying the primary German war effort wasn't directed toward the east in order to create a Greater German Reich following a policy of Pan-Germanicism and autarky.
Do you know literally anything about WW2?
>>1032968
Your history teacher sounds like a massive faggot and if you're paying for this class drop it and get your money back immediately.
>>1032968
>tfw your history teacher uses the words "plugging the school to militarization pipeline" describing her class
> describing her class
> her class
> her
There's your problem anon. Get the fuck out of the class.
>>1034908
>who thought Italy was a state.
state /stāt/ (noun) 2. a nation or territory considered as an organized political community under one government.
"Germany, Italy, and other European states"
synonyms: country, nation, land, sovereign state, nation state, kingdom, realm, power, republic, confederation, federation
"an autonomous state"
>>1032968
>Female teachers
Greece was right about them.
>go to school in deep south
>school has a rifle team
>Kids in high school can sign up for the ROTC to prepare them for the military
>they get to cosplay army men and army life
Im glad i didnt grow up in faggot liberal town
>>1034777
You need to read your Polybius. The decades leading up to the war were the causes, the assassination was the pretext.
>>1034908
I have no clue what to think about this post.
>>1034927
>synonyms: nations
Triggered.
>>1035330
You need to stop namedropping like that. How was the assassination a pretext and not a cause?
>>1035353
Because Europe was itching to rip itself apart at that point, they were just waiting for a reason.
But also, fuck you, read Polybius. Guy has pretty forward thoughts on historiography for his time and covers one of biggest events in Western history.
>>1035383
>they were just waiting for a reason.
Not sure how that makes the assassination of the Archduke less of a cause, honestly.
>Guy has pretty forward thoughts on historiography for his time and covers one of biggest events in Western history.
He didn't write about World War I, did he? There are plenty of people who actually did.
>>1034436
I kek heartily at the though of all those ultra-rich CCP princelings coming to California and using their parent's money to hear Cultural Revolution-era bullshit from deluded ideologues in sociology classes and the like.
>>1032968
>Nationalism is the consequence of a small mind
>Loving your own people means you're definitely a bigot.
And I actually bought some of it too. Being brought up in suburban Boston is a doublethink nightmare.
>>1035398
I'm from Central Mass and was raised in a liberal and Catholic environment.
I didn't realize how retarded liberals could be until I went to college and met a bunch of South Shore liberals.
What the fuck is wrong with Boston?
>>1035407
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lIFepDzQsbE
>>1034215
My biology teacher would that sort of thing all the time. We would always end up discussing politics and current issues. It was really cool
>>1035389
He divides the path to war into causes and pretexts. Causes being why a state wants to go to war and the pretext being the excuse for it.
He uses Alexander as an example, stating the causes of his Persian conquest being stuff like Persia having rich lands, events like Xenophon's experience showing they weren't much for putting up a fight, and having been handed an elite army on his father's death. The pretext was revenge for the Persian occupation, but really Greece was past that and it was little more than a somewhat bitter memory.
Similarly, the causes for WWI were things like the large web of alliances, fear of Russian modernization, butthurt over the Franco-Prussian War, economics, and political turmoil in the Balkans post-Ottoman rule. The pretext was Ferdinand's assassination and Austria-Hungary's subsequent crying. Nobody gave a shit about the assassination when it turned up in the papers, but it was grounds enough for everyone to try to get what they wanted.
If you don't think history conforms to patterns I've got news for you.
>>1035417
>full of...Irish pubs and self-righteous white people
This is kinda cucked and anti-white, but it's not wrong.
>>1035407
South shore has the worst of it because they've got the high-end suburbs. the areas north of Boston around Lexington/Concord/Woburn are my home turf, and I realize now that being put in the "advanced" classes was part of my problem.
It's an echo-chamber problem from having such high concentrations of academic-types around. I only got my head on straight after living in Maine for a couple of years, and even though I'm actually living much closer in to the heart of the city I've managed to hang on to some common fucking sense.
>>1035442
>If you don't think history conforms to patterns I've got news for you.
Yeah but like I said, there are people who actually have written about this war.
>>1035450
Fuck Acton-Boxborough, desu
>>1035454
None of whom you're using in your argument, making the point moot.
>>1035461
Could be worse, could be Fitchburg.
>>1035463
Well, I've cited Hobsbawm several times in this thread.
>>1035466
>tfw you went to high school in Worcester
why even live
>>1032968
I honestly can't really disagree with that mindset. Most students WILL learn that stuff on their own if they have an interest. But it all depends on what they replace it with, really.
>>1035470
>"Worcester is a real city!" they cry, eyes full of terror. "There's stuff to do there!" They plead, more to themselves than to you.
