So I'm going to get alot of hate for this...but I'm just going to go out and ask it?
Why doesen't /His/ like any black history? How does this affect your own careers, relationships with blacks in your field or generally.
The reason I ask is because I was your typical afrophobe - tried to stay away from African history and politics, yet I was reading Lee Kuan Yew's memoirs and he has nothing but good things to say about Julius Nyerere - the president of Tanzania whom he said he befriended was genuinly impressed by. He actually said he was sad and disspointed Tanzania did not become a wealthy and powerful country.
Kissinger says the same thing, marvelling how he translated Shakespeare's Julius Caesar and describing him as a Bismarck character whose power and reach spread across Africa and into the third world.
Looking at all these statements by leaders who were hardly politically correct leftist sjws, how can one reconcile their utter hatred of blacks and people of african decent while appreciating important historical figuires.
Because about a third/quarter of this board comes from /pol/ and their experience with black history is WE WUZ KANGS memes
More over, can /his/ truly be effective when looking at history when allowing Dark Enlighentment biases and personal prejudice to be a basic framework of analysis?
>>1022364
/thread
I could translate Julius Caesar into Prussian if I wanted to but since most Germans have an IQ of at least 110 and as a result of sophisticated brains can speak proper english, i dont have to.
Because people were just being polite ro him so they could take his natural reaources. In my personnal expierence blacks typically grovel like dogs when you massage their unwarrented self-important egos.
African history is pretty interesting
Even more so when you consider that it's still happening with awesome wars and cool leaders, rather than Europe which is currently enjoying the most boring time in all of recorded human civilization.
>>1022393
I doubt that.
>>1022354
>Why doesen't /His/ like any black history?
because /his/ is full of racists. The few people who actually want to discuss black history get memed by /pol9k/ until the give up.
The autists on this board need some anti-pol lessons from /int/
like it or not Frederick Douglas was the best rhetorician of american history (still impressive)
>>1022393
>since most Germans have an IQ of at least 110
You've obviously never met a German. The word "simple" never applied so well to a people. Say what you want about anglos but at least they're on the ball.
we are all africans
African history is boring.
>>1022408
agreed. pre-19th c. african history is fascinating, especially if you look into geopolitics, e.g. dahomey vs whydah, in the context of the arab & transatlantic slave trades. african societies not only had competitive markets, but also matched europe in industrial development and access to goods--conspicuous consumption on behalf of merchants / rulers is essentially all that drove the trade's development
until recently tho anthropologists halfass'd africana studies and assumed underdevelopment in the past based on modern trends, but there has been loads of good cliometrics-based work conducted recently
african-american history is also fairly interesting, although i prefer recent literature to history--history of hip-hop is also fun though
Im a hobby historian.
I dont like it because its mostly irrelevant
While they where getting rights to drinking fountains, genocide was occuring in the cold war from both sides in a large portion of the planets countries.
>they appreciated a play once
Lol
One thing I would like to see discussed is Africa just before colonization. Like what was going on that led to nearly every society being conquered by Europeans on a continent wide level. What were the conditions that led to the decline of each of the continents native kingdoms and indigenous collectives all around the same time?
>>1022354
Well, Lee Kuan Yew and Kissinger seem to be admiring Nyerere on the basis of the degree to which they identify with him.
And that's why people oppose black history - because it places values on cultures that the majority of the people who oppose it do not value. It's pretty simple. It threatens their sense of superiority and makes them question their own legitimacy as an inheritor of a white supremacist legacy of colonialism, imperialism, and sheer genocide.
Because if it wasn't warranted, if there really is value in those cultures, then a fucking unconscionable injustice was committed, and there's just no way to reconcile that for some people than by giving into the cultural imperialism that allowed it to occur in the first place.
Nevermind the way it can still be seen all over the place today. Nevermind the fact that it isn't history. Nevermind that the fact that people even think of "black history" as a category of history is a reflection of the fact that we have a pretty big problem realizing that human beings are pretty much the same all over, and if we don't stop engaging in the vicious cycle of reduction, division, and tribal infighting, we're going to wind up killing ourselves.
Like, I don't know - is there a way to answer this question without participating in the kind of divisive rhetoric that drives the problem?
>>1022449
I think thats a gross and snide simplification of Nyerere's influence on Africa and the Non-Aligned Movement. I mean his conversations with Lee Kuan Yew complimented the way many of the countries which were suffering genocides approached great power politics.
You're shortsighted if your idea of history is great power politics. Watching two elephants fight and make love is great buts its the animals and snake dens they stomp on that are equally important.
I also think its bad you're generalizing all Africans as if they are the same. Tanzania
>>1022483
Because they had no civilization to speak of. The so called African kingdoms are memes.
>>1022354
I think we're just tired of afrocentricity memes.
African history is cool but too often are arab accomplishments appropriated by black "historians"
>>1022408
>Europe which is currently enjoying the most boring time in all of recorded human civilization.
>waves of immigration
>mosques burning
>welfare states collapsing
>boring
We're witnessing the failure of the nordic model, i think it's pretty exciting.
>>1022393
German brain is over-engineered.
>>1022547
I must be in the wrong circles because the only time i ever see afrocentricity to an absurd degree is on /pol/ or here. Is it really everywhere? Or are people looking for it to make fun of it? I've seen people blow up the accomplishments of historical Africans but no more so than people already blow up the accomplishments of Viking cultures or things like that.
Honestly, is it that bad? Am I missing it or is it something you won't notice if African Civilization doesn't already bother you on a fundamental level?
>>1022438
>thinking those people in Germany are "Germans"
They are Syrians.
>>1022559
The sooner we can all hop into short-shorts and partake in a great big European war the better.
But in the mean time whilst glorious battles and happenings aren't going on outside your window, the African news will have to do.
>>1022567
i'm yet to see afrocentricity off of 4chan
>>1022567
>Or are people looking for it to make fun of it?
it's pretty much this, you may also stumble across it while using twitter or facebook but it isn't everywhere like 4chan users like to pretend it is.
>>1022567
If all you did was browse /pol/ then you would think it would be unsafe to go outside in Germany
/pol/ loves to exaggerate a problem
But I do like black history, I wrote my BA dissertation on King Afonso I of Kongo.
>>1022538
Wait. Are you saying that the millions of people who lived in Africa for tens of thousands of years just followed some vague, self-organizing principle, and did not establish hierarchies and kingdoms, or are you just saying that making an analogy between these cultures and the kind of "kingdom" we imagine in Western culture is too imprecise and should be avoided? I can't tell if you're making an argument from shit you know or shit you don't know.
>>1022547
You do see that your problem is trying to define "black" as belonging to a country, right?
Perhaps because nothing worth mentioning happened in Africa until white people came and gave them civilization.
>muh river empires
>muh Mansa Musa
>look at this mud building in the Sahel
Obviously there's some stuff to study but nothing near the scale or sophistication of European / Near Eastern / Indian / Asian civilization. Everyone on Earth knows this and to deny it only reveals your butthurt.
>>1022601
This, honestly
>>1022354
Because "black" African history is boring and nothing of interest ever happened outside of select West African kingdoms (if you could call them that) and some stuff around the horn of Africa. North African and Egyptian history is pretty interesting though, and fucking everyone knows about Carthage and ancient Egypt.
>>1022598
>You do see that your problem is trying to define "black" as belonging to a country, right?
I'm not though.
>>1022483
>Like what was going on that led to nearly every society being conquered by Europeans on a continent wide level
Reading about the British colonisation of Nigeria is a good start. Shit's pretty based.
What I can remember is.
>King of Lagos tries to capture another city
>Gets rekt
>Runs to get help from bongs on the condition that Lagos becomes a British protectorate and bans slavery
>Politicking continues until many city-stated have pledged themselves to bongland
>Not much actual fighting, just tonnes of perfidy
>Bongs try to perfidy Benin into protectorate
>Benin sees through ploys and stops trading with Bongoland
>Bongs chimp out and Raze Benin city to the ground, looting all of their cool shit
>Bongs eventually get all of the Yoruba and Igbo under protectorate, then somehow the muzzie Hausa too, can't remember how.
Pic related some cool shit from the Benis empire
>>1022601
Oh, so basically the only things that matter are things that fit into STEM. Are you an actual robot, or do you just envy them? Also, you don't even know what you're talking about and you should look at the Ta Netere website (tanetere dot org). Stop trying to look cool by dehumanizing people; it's just embarrassing.
>>1022567
>the only time i ever see afrocentricity to an absurd degree is on /pol/ or here
I took an afrocentricity class in college, it's pretty big in ethnic studies departments, which are bloated as fuck in some universities.
It kinda sucked.
Slavery to 1850's
Segregation till 60's
That leaves only the 60's onward to really see a change in black people's socioeconomic status. There's just not that much history in black history
Some people just don't want to learn about African history
I accept people who go "I hate niggers" fine, I get it, do what you like
What I hate is people trying to justify not learning about it because "it's boring" or "nothing happened" or whatever
>>1022622
Quiet, subhuman.
>>1022435
>because /his/ is full of racists
I wouldn't say that, I think african history threads just attract the anti-blacks, /his/ seems kinda neutral for the most part
>>1022354
if you want to discuss african history I recommend historum's middle east & african history section, most of the posters there seem more knowledgeable than most anons I've seen in the african history threads and you dont have to worry about a bunch of shitposting, it is a bit slow though.
>>1022354
As much as black is interesting and has its own cadre of badasses, Julius Nyere is, for the most part, so similar to Lee Kuan Yew I am not surprised both men hit it off so well. Both of them are, at heart, autocratic bastards with no regard for the people who they manipulated into getting elected. (At least from the wikipedia summary. It mirrors what Singapore did in the late 60s and 70s.)
The main reason why it didn't work was because that form of government was never successful to begin with. Singapore is a bit of an aberration because of some very, very good PR and a ton of information and propaganda control, plus a better diplomatic corps.
>>1022601
>nothing near the scale or sophistication of European / Near Eastern / Indian / Asian
Who cares. It's interesting.
>Everyone on Earth knows this and to deny it only reveals your butthurt.
You're the one getting triggered by the mere mention of Africa. Plenty of underdeveloped places and general barbarian shitholes get discussed on here all the time but only Africa inspires such tremendous butthurt.
>>1022622
>Are you an actual robot, or do you just envy them?
Buttbothered kushite curtain sewing major detected
>Also, you don't even know what you're talking about
You've sure convinced me with those hot opinions. Give me three reasons why I should care about African history.
>>1022634
>
>>1022616
You are claiming that "black 'historians'" are trying to "take claim" for things that "Arabs" do. Some "Arabs" identify as "black." You know what? This whole thing is stupid. Whatever. You're right. Nevermind. Someone just kill me already and put me in a robot body on a fucking planet that knows what a species is.
>>1022635
>Give me three reasons why I should care about African history.
Well, the same reasons you should care about the history of other continents.
>>1022354
Black history has little relevance in Western education or pop culture, so most non-black people (and many black people) don't care to learn about it.
The whole "we wuz" shit only exists because legitimate African history is so rarely discussed in the media or in the classroom.
>>1022547
>I think we're just tired of afrocentricity memes.
The only place I see Afrocentricity memes is on 4chan.
>>1022644
Those continents are actually relevant, though
>>1022642
>Some "Arabs" identify as "black."
Very few and although there is a lot of admixture the two groups pretty much hate eachother.
>>1022408
Agreed desu senpai
I hope Africa's rising continental GDP ensures that legitimate African history is promoted. There are some amazingly badass recent stories to be told on film
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Congo_War
>>1022662
Jesus the USA is an absolute monster in all walks of life.
>>1022408
>Corrupt warlord after corrupt warlord
>Awesome wars
The Middle East is much more interesting if you want contemporary turmoil, even fucking Mexico with their drug problems.
>>1022662
What do scientific research papers have to do with history?
>we wuz: the thread
inb4 "go back to /pol/ xdxd"
>>1022685
>>Corrupt warlord after corrupt warlord
You're just saying that because you don't know anything about it.
>>1022690
There are winners and losers in history. Who would want to be interested in the history of losers?
>>1022694
Post some cool stories then.
>>1022704
But anon, with their birthrates they'll be the winners soon
>>1022704
This.
>>1022662
>African intellectuals
>>1022685
>Paratroopers raining out of the sky set to take over massive countries by seizing a single airport.
>Dudes declaring their shitty third world non-country to be an empire just for the banter.
>Islamic militants all over the place
>Christian militants all over the place
>Chinese all over the place
>Robert Mugabe
Africa is like the wild-west of the modern day.
>>1022649
>Black history has little relevance in Western education or pop culture, so most non-black people (and many black people) don't care to learn about it.
That's true but most things popular on /his/ have little relevance on popular culture. /his/ is generally borderline hipster in it's love for Byzantines, Sea Peoples, Tocharians etc. Yet people actively derail threads about Africa. I've seen loads of good threads about the Mississippian mound builders, Cucuteni, Pre-colonial Amazons and other obscure shit.
I suspect foul play
>>1022723
>>Islamic militants all over the place
>>Christian militants all over the place
Do they fuck each other up?
>>1022483
Better weapons, communication lines, and supply chains.
In addition, African polities were heavily divided at the eve of colonization. European powers knew they could not conquer Africa all at once, so they would usually choose one state to ally with while they fought another.
>>1022730
That's been the last ten years or so in Nigeria in a nutshell.
>>1022730
Yes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_African_Republic_Civil_War_%282012%E2%80%93present%29
The Christian side have been known to literally convert Muslims at gunpoint. You'd think Deus Vult roleplayers would be all over this.
No one cares about the history of a largely irrelevant continent populated by low IQ chimps that live off donations from first world countries. Seriously, how can the bottom half of a 12 million square mile continent not produce any lasting scientific, historic and cultural achievements despite having access to an abundance of resources? African (Sub-Saharan) history doesn't begin until white people made contact.
>>1022723
Stop romanticizing it. It's literally just one big chimp out.
>>1022567
A substantial minority of black Americans believe the Egyptians were uniformly black, but that's it.
Afro-revisionism is basically dead in academia. That shit peaked in the early 90s.
>>1022717
>So I told Mugabe to kick out the farmers
>He actually did it the absolute madman
>>1022662
>relevant
>good
entry-level trash
>>1022593
he was basically a weaboo
pls make a thread about him sometime
>>1022635
>posts a picture of the Cossacks
You realize that Africa was fully of states substantially more sophisticated than the Hetmanate?
By your own logic, you shouldn't care about them, because nothing ever happened in premodern Ukraine
Most of the top 10 fastest-growing economies in the world are African countries. While the third world hut shit certainly exists, the modern, urban parts of Africa are exploding with opportunity.
>>1022706
Rwandan Genocide
The entire clusterfuck that was the congo wars
Boko Haraam
Civil war in CAR
muthafuckin Somalia
Rhodesian wars
Plenty of cool shit goin on.
>>1022750
What does that even mean?
Are you saying this isn't interesting?
>>1022770
>africa
>sophisticated
Weak b8. Even the shittiest white European kingdom is more relevant than the best black African "empire."
>>1022750
So it's like European history from 1500 BC to 1945?
>>1022745
Separation from the Eurasian landmass by large natural barriers.
Relatively late, and relatively inefficient introduction of metalworking and agriculture.
This was enough to prevent literacy and state formation until the Europeans figured out how to reach sub-Saharan Africa.
The fact that it was the 15th century when this happened should give you some indication of the natural geographic isolation of the region.
>>1022790
Why do you feel this way
What makes a historical polity "relevant"
>>1022724
/pol/ turns everything it touches to shit
>>1022730
Religious conflict in Africa is Crusades-tier, but due to regional affiliation religious armies usually spend most of their time battling secular forces
>>1022790
>Even the shittiest white European kingdom is more relevant than the best black African "empire."
not true. The cossack hetmanate was the height of irrelevant and was indeed much less sophisticated than the kingdoms of West Africa.
Cossacks were basically just land pirates.
>>1022790
But no, that's a lie. The Kongo Kingdom had more permanent laws and institutions than the Cossack state.
You don't see the irony here?
>>1022806
Civilization leads to IQ, not vice versa
>>1022806
Sure they contribute but it's much less of a factor than the above. Retards are perfectly capable of building civilisation. Most humans throughout history have been semi-nourished idiots.
Also Africans did build civilisation, they were just a few years behind.
>>1022806
I think it's possible, but we have insufficient evidence.
The aboriginal Australians were in a similar state of agricultural insufficiency, and cultural isolation, and they ended up with a society far closer to, say, the San of Namibia, than to the Polynesians or Melanesians that they're genetically closer to.
>>1022790
Retarded /pol/ cucks should be banned.
>>1022806
But a lot of African civilizations WERE stable, anon.
Many cities in West Africa and the Indian Ocean coast were built centuries ago but are still inhabited. Kingdoms like Kongo and Benin were no less stable than medieval Europeans states.
>>1022832
Melanesians, not Polynesians
Polynesians are a Eurasian people who arrived on the scene in the Bronze Age
>>1022832
What about the Mayans, Aztecs, or any other Native American peoples mange to have stable civilization with their own cities and lasting achievements despite themselves being isolated?
>>1022841
Well, there's kind of a civilizational parallel I'd like to point out here.
You could go from Papua New Guinea to the Congo, and it'd be very similar in terms of culture and politics.
Ditto for pre-colonization Namibia and Angola and continental Australia.
You need calories to build brains. It's why all of the civilizations start in areas that can support a large food surplus.
>>1022849
Well, there were two independent developments of agriculture in the Americas.
One in Mesoamerica (probably Southern Mexico) and one on the Pacific coast of Peru.
The Maya and Aztecs cropped up near that first site, the Inca cropped up near the second.
On the old world, the closest civilizational birthplace was Egypt, which is separated considerably more.
I suspect that the agricultural land that the sub-Saharan Africans had was simply worse than the land that the Mesoamericans got, at least if you're not a European with heavy iron plows.
>>1022849
The places you're on about all existed in this green area as they had a very reliable system of agriculture.
The places like what is now southern Mexico and modern day Peru back then were also massive population centres that were generally in contact with each other.
However in Northern North America where you had nomadic hunter-gatherers spread sparsely all over the continent they didn't develop technology or civilization much more impressive than aborigines or extremely deprived African civilizations.
Why does no one blame the underdevelopment of Africa on the uninhabitable land and shit like the Tsetse fly? Why is it "black people are dumb"?
>>1022869
because memes are more fun
>>1022849
American crops can support much larger populations and the population was less disparate. Trade networks were stronger in the Americas than in, say Yorubaland, though trade in the Sahara was stronger than either.
For monumental architecture like the Mayans you need large mobilisation of manpower which simply was not available to Africans.
Also "Their own cities and lasting achievements" applies to Africans as well, they just don't have as good buildings. Sculpture wise the were much more advanced, as were their weapons and military in general.
I'd say it's better to compare Africans to Medieval Irish, Norse or Finns than Mayans. Isolated groups with low populations.
>>1022354
Posting some kickass African history.
>>1022861
>On the old world, the closest civilizational birthplace was Egypt, which is separated considerably more.
The niger delta is itself a civilisational birthplace.
>>1022884
Medieval Irish were actually industrious and decently populated for the time.
Of course you know who had to ruin that.
>>1022404
>Here's the question though: do /pol/ types make up a significant part of our field though?
No. /pol/ is actively opposed to reading and learning anything about Africa.
>>1022393
>Prussian
>extinct Baltic language
>>1022849
>>1022861
Cereal agriculture emerged much earlier in the Americas than in Africa. It takes thousands of years for civilization to arise after the beginning of agriculture in a region, if it arises at all, unless it can be introduced from abroad. In Nigeria, it took about 3000 years for civilization to arise after agriculture began there. In Egypt and Sumer, it also took 3000 years. In Mesoamerica and China, it was over 5000 years. In the European Plain, agriculture was present for 5000 years without any civilization arising. Civilization was only introduced there from other regions where it developed earlier, and the same is true of most parts of the world.
Most parts of Africa were too isolated for civilization to be introduced like that, except in a few areas like the Swahili Coast or Sudan. Africa mostly had to develop on its own, and by around 1000 AD civilization arose in West Africa, but it had hardly any time to develop. Bantu Africa, where agriculture was introduced even later than in the West, had no time to develop civilization at all.
Africa in general also has a shitty environment, most of which didn't encourage development.
>>1022404
>do /pol/ types make up a significant part of our field though?
Haha no
Before /his/ literally any thread about Africa was spammed with pictures of gore and "fuggin niggers!"
The idiots are still convinced all Africans were honestly living in caves and using stone tools
i literally can't stand how people often try to correct my behavior while i say nothing about theirs
people hide behind an aura of sanctimony
>>1022918
>throw your own shit at people in the streets
>'stop doing that'
>how dare you try to correct my behavior while I say nothing about yours
>>1022487
>Nevermind the way it can still be seen all over the place today. Nevermind the fact that it isn't history. Nevermind that the fact that people even think of "black history" as a category of history is a reflection of the fact that we have a pretty big problem realizing that human beings are pretty much the same all over, and if we don't stop engaging in the vicious cycle of reduction, division, and tribal infighting, we're going to wind up killing ourselves.
That's an extremely dangerous way of thinking and it's exactly one of the reasons for social divisions, humans are not the same neither culturally or biologically. The critical failure of Western thought is thinking that its abstractions and aberrations are somehow normal and universal. The idea that all humans are equal only breeds hatred and contempt, not respect.
>>1022953
Humans are the same biologically.
There is no dispute.
>>1022841
>Polynesians are a Eurasian
Wut? Polynesian are austronesian & melanesian lovebaby m8.
>>1023006
Polynesians used to be classified a Caucasoid.
>>1023011
And Beavers used to be classified as a fish. Who the fuck cares?
>>1022354
American history is black american history. Black american history is american history. Separating them is dumb and perpetuates racism by "othering" them.
>>1022354
Because I am of European origin, like most people here, and black history does not affect me.
>>1022977
No they're not that's the stupid leftist-political bullshit getting in the way of facts. Phenotypes developed according to environment and genetic ancestry, the product of evolution, we see this in animals and we also see this in humans. There is an extreme amount of diversity in genetics amongst homo sapiens when you consider all the sub-groups as isolated populations tend to create specialized traits according to their environments.
>>1022446
Pretty much this, history is a source of entertainment for me.
I am mostly interested in military history anyways and Africa has about two lines of it before colonization. African American history is just as tiresome and is constantly harping on the theme that "you should feel bad".
>>1023183
>There is an extreme amount of diversity in genetics amongst homo sapiens
But there isn't compared to many other species
>People today look remarkably diverse on the outside. But how much of this diversity is genetically encoded? How deep are these differences between human groups? First, compared with many other mammalian species, humans are genetically far less diverse – a counterintuitive finding, given our large population and worldwide distribution. For example, the subspecies of the chimpanzee that lives just in central Africa, Pan troglodytes troglodytes, has higher levels of diversity than do humans globally, and the genetic differentiation between the western (P. t. verus) and central (P. t. troglodytes) subspecies of chimpanzees is much greater than that between human populations.
any some other link I just found
http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/2008/03/17/explosive-hypothesis-about-humans-lack-of-genetic-diversity/
>>1023183
You are the one hung up on propaganda
Phoenotype is not as big or a part of genetics as you think.
The San people have the highest genetic diversity of all groups of humans. This is with in their own population. They might be Stock from which all humans originate.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1893020/
>>1022354
Too bad Nyerere drank the socialist Kool Aid which ruined his country.
Also it seems that people want to canonize him and make him a Saint.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIwtRMvYp3Y
>>1023204
>I am mostly interested in military history anyways and Africa has about two lines of it before colonization
That isn't true by any stretch of the imagination.
Read Medieval Africa 1250–1800 by Roland Oliver, there's a pretty good chapter on the military structure of the Kingdom of Kongo and what the Portuguese thought of it.
>>1023264
Perhaps you could humor me and tell me what is interesting or unique about the military structure of the Kingdom of Kongo?
Because I'm not black.
I care about the history of people that looked like me. European history, from ancient history to current history is all very interesting to me. It directly relates to me, and gives me perspective about what I do and whether I'm making the correct choices.
If I was an academic historian, I would care, and academics should have experience studying any relevant information in their field.
My interest in history is not academic though. I have little in common with a man who's ancestors came from Ethiopia or the Congo or West Africa. What these people have done in the past makes no difference to me and does not inform upon how I live my life. European history does inform me of how to live and brings me closer to understanding my ancestors.
Black history is not silly or meaningless, but I leave it to professional historians or black people who want to understand their own heritage.
>>1023264
>what the Portuguese thought of it
That is the point isn't it? Africans never bothered to record their own histories and if they did then it is lost to time. If the Portuguese are describing it then that is around the time of colonization.
its just not that interesting (until white people got involved)
pretty much a matter of taste at that point, you like it, most people here don't care about it.
>>1023294
>Africans never bothered to record their own histories
Actually, many did when it was possible such as among the Hausa and Mandinka
i just look at africa and see how it really hasn't developed all that much and figure they probably haven't been doing anything worth reading about. the best African "history" comes from the modern era IMO. Like Nelson Mandela and the Rwandan Genocide or Idi Amin's shenanigans
Most of /his/ is white, and, naturally, people are more interested in learning about the history of their own race. This is not systemic oppression like some triggered tumblrinas in this thread would believe.
The problem is that leftists are currently using blacks as tokens for greater political power and thus the rhetoric surrounding discussion on African history is thrown in the backdrop of "omg evil white people #stoptheoppressionplz".
It isn't even racism, but the resistance to progressive dogma that then brings resistance to narratives involving blacks due to their political connection.
same reason why i don't read anything about aborigines or native americans or the ainu people of Japan, they were pretty much all backwards barbarians who didn't develop anything interesting or do anything of note. you'd only care about their exploits if you had an interest in their culture, otherwise they haven't really done anything most people would care about.
>>1023329
To add, Chinese people would be more interested in Chinese history, Malays more interested in Malay History, Jewish people their own history, etc...
And I'm just interested in badass history. I'm not ashamed of being only interested in the badass parts of history; it's a lot more interesting than the usual history lesson.
>>1022617
>britain demanded that they abolish slavery before being colonized
Welp, some sjws would surely break their brains over this one
African history is super interesting, /pol/ can fuck off
Sometimes we have really good African threads about the recent Congo Wars. They're always good fun to learn about.
The only people who "hate" black history are /pol/tards who barely understand it, or are blinded by their insular memes. We have good discussions some times.
>>1023367
So, maybe, instead of calling people who disagree with you "/pol/tards," how about presenting some of that interesting black history that you keep talking about?
>>1023359
>African history is super interesting, /pol/ can fuck off
>if you don't read African History you're /pol/
>if you're indifferent to black people you're racist
god you people are insufferable.
>>1023367
/pol/tards aren't the only ones who hate black history. Anti-/pol/tards will shit up any African history thread claiming that everything and anything in it is racist, spreading their /pol/ bogeyman delusion ever further.
>>1023373
See:
>>1022890
These two were pretty good.
>>1023376
To be fair to that guy, the months of "WE WUZ" shitposting really set the stage for the Anti-pol legion.
Not to say that the shitposters were from /pol/, but the ebin racism memes they use are usually associated with that board.
Kinda like those old /n/ infographics.
>>1023373
sure. in 1905 some natives thought that if they drank special water they would become impervious to the bullets of their German oppressors, kick starting the Maji Maji Rebellion.
they did about as good as you'd think they could given such circumstances.
should never have came to 4chan. this place made me a racist. but it wasn't the /pol/ memes, it was the goddamn annoying SJWs whose nonstop bitching and whining that drove me to it. I swear to god you people are annoying. ten to twenty years ago white and black were getting along really goddamn fine and things looked great, now its fucking "KILL ALL WHITEY DEY RACIS" . I'm not even fucking white, I can just understand their frustration
>>1023381
The entire history of Congo seems like its getting fucked over by one warlord next door, which gets fucked by another warlord next door, which gets fucked by another warlord next door...
Quite exciting.
>>1023402
That's cool, but what the fuck does it have to do with being able to discuss African history?
>>1023402
>ten to twenty years ago white and black were getting along really goddamn fine and things looked great
No they fucking weren't
> I'm not even fucking white, I can just understand their frustration
No that just means that your brainwashed into thinking that white peoples problems are your own.
>>1022354
Until the story of the hunt is told by the lion, the tale of the hunt will always glorify the hunter.
Ewe-Mina
The simple and most obvious answer is Western history is pop history. The current cultural dominance of the West means that everyone is forced to hear about how the West is so great and all of their accomplishments spanning thousands of years despite the fact that post-Roman Europe was the asshole of the Old World and Pre-Roman Europe was equally irrelevant with the sole exception of the rise of Macedon.
Nobody wants to hear about African history because no African nation carries any weight economically, politically or culturally. Despite the continent spawning several respectable civilizations and an extremely diverse range of cultures
>>1022759
Firts article is false
European and Asian history just interests me more. Maybe I'm vain, maybe I like the grand and the glorious, maybe I'm a bit of a Romantic, but the grandeur of European and Asian history always appealed to me more. That doesn't mean I don't think Africans never did anything, I full well know about people like Mansa Musa, but compared to European and Asian history, African periods like those are poorly documented and fewer.
>>1022354
>relationships with blacks
Huh?
>>1022367
Bully those fuckfaces whenever you see them.
>>1022354
Not an American, I really don't care about blacks. Black history is cool and all, but unless it gives me something useable, I don't care.
>>1022593
pic
>>1022617
>Benis
:DDD
Really , this is a testimony to the superiority of the bong political system. You could not pull that off in Europe. Hell, one European city would have put up more of a fight.
>>1022644
They affect me? But they got rekt so bad they don't.
>>1023376
Strawman.
>>1023598
Pretty much. I really don't care about some fine culture they built that got exterminated by some thousand men expeditionary force,
>>1023598
>The current cultural dominance of the West
There has never been a time since modern humans spread to asia that Africa has been culturally ahead of the rest of the world.
>Nobody wants to hear about African history
Africans failed to achieve literacy until modern times, there is virtually no such thing as history for most of Africa's past. Oral traditions are less than useless, and archaeology can only tell us so much. Most people prefer a narrative when looking at history, and for most of Africa there simply isn't one.
>>1023183
There is higher diversity within a defined "race" than between species
>African history is boring because it wasn't influential! I-it's not like I just reject it completely because /pol/ memes indoctrinated me to believe that no African society has ever left the stone age
>/his/ constantly creams itself over irrelevant hipster meme-tier history like Byzantium and the sea peoples
>>1022354
I don't care what colour the person is, as long as the history is interesting, maybe black history is (on average) just not as interesting?
I don't really care about the history of Polynesians, for example, it just doesn't interest me.
Because African history is basically a long march of them being exploited by more advanced civilizations and that's just boring to read about. Plus with all the disinformation out there and the lack of a lot of written scripts compared to other parts of the world just leads to the whole endeavor being very muddled.
>>1023944
>>1023229
>>1023213
It's funny that people always argue 'omg there's only a tiny difference'. No shit, there's only a tiny difference between dog breeds too, but look at the massive difference in temperament, size, strength, intelligence etc such a tiny change has.
I remember a study showed there was actually less genetic difference between wolf subspecies than human ethnic groups, but scientists will never class people this way due to obvious political reasons.
Anyway, I'm not arguing that one race is 'greater' overall than any other, but if you don't admit there are differences, and these differences can mean one ethnic group is, on average, slightly better at certain things than others, then you are just blatantly wrong and ignorant of reality. Take east africans and sprinting sports for example....
>>1022912
I don't remember that at all
>>1024035
Supposedly there is less genetic difference between human races than there is between individual chimpanzee in the same group.
Also dogs were subject to intense artificial selection, it's not really comparable.
>>1024035
Cite that paper.
You have a clear bias
Despite the actual studies we have presented you.
>>1022354
C U C K
U
C
K
>>1022833
>opinions i don't like should be banned
>>1023213
>>>There is an extreme amount of diversity in genetics amongst homo sapiens
>
>But there isn't compared to many other species
yeah we must compare ourselves to bananas, great idea.
>>1022354
I don't like it simply because I'm not interested in it.
Same reason I don't bother with Canadian history, or Aborigine history, or Siberian history
>>1024097
it's a book written by an anthropology professor at UC Berkeley
Race: The Reality of Human Differences
not that you'd ever be convinced to challenge your beliefs
>>1024141
I didn't read anything
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1893020/
http://io9.gizmodo.com/5890349/genetic-diversity-in-chimpanzees-reveal-just-how-closely-related-humans-really-are
>Based on the DNA from 54 chimps taken from across these four populations, these chimps really are genetically distinct from each other despite often being so close together. What's more, the genetic diversity of these different chimp populations, even those who are practically right on top of each other, is significantly greater than that found in humans separated by entire continents
>>1022912
muh strawmen
>>1024042
>>1024097
>Some species like the grey wolf even exhibited a lower H (corresponding to lower genetic diversity) than humans (0.528 vs 0.588 - 0.807), while the grey wolf has been divided into as many as 37 subspecies.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19695787
>>1024097
There you go, and I can easily say that you have a bias too. A bias that is much more common in media, so there's a high chance you've no more than a facebook tier 'everyone is the same' understanding of the issue.
But yeah, links above.
>>1023956
Nice redditfrog, newfriend. Tell me more about how Byzantium is an unimportant city.
>>1024151
>while the grey wolf has been divided into as many as 37 subspecies
desu this is just autism, they can still interbreed with no difficulties.
lumpers > splitters
>>1022622
from a completely objective standpoint, then yes, the only things that matter are STEM.
So very sorry that it triggers you
>>1024146
Most probably another moron who believes platitudes from Bill Nye and ScienceAlert count as science.
>DESPITE OUR DIFFERENCES WE ARE ACTUALLY ALL EXACTLY THE SAME, THAT'S RIGHT GUYS, WE ARE IMMUNE TO THE BIOLOGICAL EFFECTS OF NATURAL SELECTION THAT EVERY ANIMAL IN THE WORLD WAS MOULDED BY
That special snowflake take on science.
>>1024156
muh goalposts
>>1022761
>literally being a hipster
>>1024156
All subspecies can interbreed without difficulties, there's just enough of a difference to classify them differently.
>>1024163
Reinforced by state propaganda, especially if they're in Europe
>>1022601
This 2bh
What did they do that should interest me? I don't give a fuck what their skin colour was
>>1024170
True
Imagine trying to be an evolutionary biologist in Sweden, you'd want to kill yourself.
>>1024167
The classification is only useful if the speciation is ongoing, neanderthal and sapiens even had difficulty interbreeding, but with the interconnected global world no human populations are genetically isolated anymore.
>>1022724
>I suspect foul play
>the white man be keeping us down, even on the internet
>>1024151
You can say what you like. That does not make you correct.
But wolves are still not humans we only have one extant species and we are 100% compatible.
It also still stands that genetic studies done on ourselves show little variation. Phoenotype counts for very little.
>>1024177
>Evolutionary biologist don't understand genetics and variations within populations and between populations.
>>1024163
We have not been separate for long enough nor have there been sufficient pleasures to make any notable change.
>>1022869
Because nearly every other civilization has faced shitty conditions, and not only surpassed them but thrived
>>1024180
Cool. Maybe you should go argue with Woodley who wrote the paper, I'm sure you know more than him.
>>1024194
>shitty conditions are equal
>muh environmental tabula rasa
>>1022354
>Why doesen't /His/ like any black history?
I don't care too much. I would take an intrest in black history if it was presented in a good fashion, but the way that black history is often taught is overly agressive, racist and can essentially be summed up as 'WE WUZ KANGS N SHIET'.
>How does this affect your own careers, relationships with blacks in your field or generally.
I have no relationships with blacks since I'm not a fucking Burger.
>>1022977
>there is only one race, the human race!
When will this meme end?
>>1022977
>there are no different breeds of dogs, they're all part of the dog race!!!!!!!!!
>>1024190
Define 'notable change'. There's obviously pretty big physical differences, not mention temperamental, intelligence etc depending on whether you want to be politically correct or not. Look at Ashkenazi Jews and Nobel prize wins, they are massively overrepresented.
Obviously not all Jewish people are geniuses, but there it seems highly likely that there average intelligence is quite high compared to other ethnic groups.
>>1023540
Yeah, they were.
Now you've got protests over criminals being shot and WTP demanding that all black prisoners are released and people are segretated.
And I'd say that it's the blacks and their allies who are doing the brainwashing
>>1023956
>Byzantium and the sea peoples
>irrelevant hipster meme tier
>>1024196
Not all of them were equal, and Africans did get shit, but even after the white man came in, built up a lot of shit and then left they're irrelevant
>>1024195
So are we not 100% compatible?
Also I don't think that paper has the implications that you think it does.
>>1024210
Humans have not undergone artifical selection that is a stupid response that someone else already dealt with.
And yes dogs are genetically compatible the physics may be a problem though.
>>1024229
We are all equal. We are one race, the human race, and one gender, the human gender.
>>1024155
It's full of Turks.
>>1024223
>they're irrelevant
So what? I find palaeolithic Europe fascinating even if it's irrelevant.
>>1024229
The Wolf subspecies mentioned are all 100% compatible, that's the point I'm making.....
>>1024247
We weren't arguing about irrelevance in the course of history, we were talking about why Africans are underdeveloped.
I pointed out that even though the white man came in and built tons of stuff, after he left Africa slid into anarchy yet again
>>1024216
Those are cultural differences.
Iq tests are of dubious utility.
>>1024244
Lame
>>1024250
And what does that point mean for humans?
>>1024177
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hjernevask
Check this shit out to be honest family. 7-part documentary that aired on Norwegian state television about exposing the SJW scientific community's hilarious bias.
>>1024189
>I am a literal Sophist
>>1024257
It isn't just "cultural differences"
And if IQ tests aren't up your value, what about the fact that African 5 year olds fail the mirror test, which their Asian and Caucasian counterparts pass at 2 years?
>>1024267
nigga what? Sweden has a high output of scientific papers including biological, the researchers aren't ignorant of evolution and genetics, or are you some pleb judging other plebs?
>>1024264
Thanks for the link, amazing that something like this came out of Scandinavia, maybe they aren't all as fucked as the Swedes
>>1023294
The Portuguese first met the Kongo in the 15th century, and had diplomatic relations with them for 400 years before colonising them.
>>1024273
No 5 year old fails the mirror test. Cite.
The reason those tests are dubious is because certain populations in Africa have sub 70 iq. That is impossible to maintain ones culture and care for yourself.
Does anyone actually hate African (I'm guessing you mean secifically sub-saharan) history though?
I reckon it's just not widely discussed due to how little records were kept in most of Africa, and due to how tribal most of it was.
I am keen in learning specifically about Ethiopian and Somali history though, due to how interesting and rich it seems.
>>1024293
http://www2.psych.ubc.ca/~henrich/pdfs/Journal%20of%20Cross-Cultural%20Psychology-2010-Broesch-%20Cultural%20Variations%20in%20Children's%20Mirror%20Self-Recognition.pdf
>>1022354
>Why doesen't /His/ like any black history?
Because all people on /his/ are racist, just like all black people are the same.
HOLY SHIT PLEASE KILL YOURSELF OP
YOU JUST SLANDERED EVERYONE
ISN'T THAT WHAT THE RACISTS YOU HATE DO?
DO YOU EVEN INTO FUCKING IRONY YOU FUCKING 12 YEAR OLD AUTIST?
>>1022393
>translate shit to Prussian
stop your memeing you autistic fuck
>>1024177
>Imagine trying to be an evolutionary biologist in Sweden, you'd want to kill yourself.
Sweden isn't as bad as people say it is. I'd prefer to be a biologist in Sweden than in the US.
>>1024299
That seems more like a cultural thing as they did not test African americans.
Even they admit it's culture it's in a goddamn cultural journal. Did you evem read the abstract?
They probably fail for the same reasons gorillas fail. We know that they are smart enough but is is bad form to be looked in they eye by another male gorilla.
>>1024328
They suggest it's culture, because they can't just say africans are stupider than whites.
And desu with you I'm getting tired of this lackluster meme.
Is it that taboo to say that one race is smarter than the other one?
>>1023376
No you fuckwit, if you're indifferent to African history you're not racist. If you actively hate people discussing it to the point where you'll shitpost and derail any discussion regarding black people then yes, you might be racist.
>>1024336
The taboo is not the problem. It simply is not true.
Everything that you bring up can be better explained by other things.
And I will say it again blacks growing up in the west do as expected on the mirror test.
>>1024352
> It simply is not true
Strange then, that when left with independent all of Europe's technology they managed to fuck it up.
>>1024366
Not that anon, but are you suggesting that history can be entirely reduced to race as the main explanatory factor?
>>1024366
How does him being a bad leader have anything to do with this.
You act as if there are no white bad keaders.
You are getting sad now
>>1023402
If you think SJWs even exist on 4chan then you're probably quite far down the ideological rabbithole.
In any case you don't have to like blacks. Just allow others to discuss African history without nuking the thread with shiposts.
>>1024380
It is incredibly simplistic to reduce history to only one factor, as Jared Diamond did.
I believe that history is made up of thousands of small factors interlocking together, and that race is one of them.
>>1024381
Then why do native Rhodesians have no ability to farm, the necessary factor for civilization to develop?
It isn't just Mugabe
>>1023378
>Anti-/pol/tards will shit up any African history thread claiming that everything and anything in it is racist
I've read every single African thread I've come across and I've literally never seen that happen. There are no SJWs on /his/. "Anti-/pol/tards" aren't a coherent group with coherent interests. You've managed to piss off literally everyone on this website so if someone tells you to go back they could be anything from a fascist to a commie.
>>1024384
There were a couple of pants-down retarded feminists in a thread about male education. /lit/ and therefore /his/ seems to have them.
>>1024400
>It is incredibly simplistic to reduce history to only one factor, as Jared Diamond did.
tfw you never read the book you're talking about (even worse than a pleb)
>>1024366
the second headline is dishonest, he never "begs" whites to come back, he was simply allowing a few to come back
>>1024416
>muh environmentalism
>>1024425
I'm not denying that 'race' (genetic differences more visible within than between populations) have an influence, just that many other factors have a larger direct and immediate influence.
And it's complete pleb to discuss a book you haven't read, or should I say bias being manipulated?
>>1024400
>>1024366
>Then why do native Rhodesians have no ability to farm
They were farmers before the whites arrived. Whites completely dismantled the traditional agricultural systems, mechanised farming and left without showing them how to use it, how to fertilise, how to manage land ownership etc. Modern tech is useless if the users aren't trained. That is why militaries like Saudi Arabia are a complete joke, and why people are trying to stop food aid to Africa and offer educational aid instead.
>I believe that history is made up of thousands of small factors interlocking together, and that race is one of them.
I agree with you anon, but race isn't that useful in describing the development of any civilisation, which is why you never get these discussions about any other cultures.
Like seriously, do you expect people to put a disclaimer at the beginning of every paragraph about African history?
>>1024446
>uses the term Rhodesians
>uses the term "whites"
pls
>>1024446
I'm not arguing that all books or studies on African history or development should include the bell curve or something, just that if we're looking at the reasons some civilizations prospered and others floundered we might take a gander at intelligence
>>1024403
I was in that thread. No there wasn't any SJWs.
It was an argument between
A: a handful of people who thought there was a feminist conspiracy against men
B: A majority of people who though there was no conspiracy but that the rate of female teachers and the emphasis on cooperation of competition was unfair to "natural male traits"
C: People who thought giving people concessions based on gender was wrong and that allowing people to behave badly because they were boys was "coddling"
D: That guy who said that woman in the OP wasn't a feminist and ended up causing a big shitposting argument.
If you think any of those people are feminists then I don't know what criteria you're using. There are barely even any women here.
/lit/ has some commies but they are a minority and are not the /sjw/ brand of leftist. Even /lgbt/ hates SJWs
>>1024477
There aren't really any historical African examples of civilizations "floundering" that can't be explained by some external factor, same as Europe or Asia or the Americas.
There are examples of states collapsing due to political intrigue, resource crises, their leaders being fucking retarded, same as anywhere else. I think this is why Jared Diamond and the like are so redundant, they're trying to explain something that didn't really happen.
>>1024508
Ah, but those are civilizations that got big enough to be sort of known before collapsing.
What about all those other civilizations that reached a liminal space but didn't get beyond it?
>>1024477
That's a reasonable point but in most African threads people don't ask that question.
We just want to discuss African history as it stands. It's impossible to have a discussion about African history without someone shitposting about how African civilisations were worse than Europe's, as if anyone was comparing them in the first place. It inevitably gets drawn into a shitposting match between racists who hate any discussion of Africa and idiots who think that Race doesn't exist. The people who actually want to discuss Africa get fucked over.
I'm not accusing you of this, just explaining why I assume OP made the thread. It is pretty hard to discuss Africa on here because there are people who will deliberately try to stop the discussion.
>>1024522
>Redwood would ban you if you said nigger, it got out of hand
I've actually never been on /co/ and have no desire to so I'll take your word for it.
>>1024540
Found the pic I wanted to post alongside my post
>>1024554
topkek
>>1024506
Did you read the thread? Some of them literally claimed that rape surveys were to be taken 100% literally and that it's impossible for a woman to lie about rape.
The SJW's came out of the woodwork and started discussing other things than the OP's topic-
>>1022354
because black history doesn't exist as "blacks" aren't a single homogeneous people
if you'd have said African history that'd be fine but you're clearly a Basketball-American and can fuck off
also I don't like African history and it doesn't interest me
>>1024516
Not him but in the case of West Africa, Ethiopia, coastal East Africa, the Kongo and the Sahel each state built directly on it's predecessors, so I wouldn't say any of those civilisations collapsed, no more than I would say Chinese civilisation collapsed with each new dynasty.
Great Zimbabwe did indeed collapse without the intervention of foreign powers, and Nubians collapsed due to conquest. I wouldn't be surprised if there are lesser known civilisations who also collapsed but the main ones discussed developed pretty standardly and consistently over the years.
>>1024578
>Did you read the thread? Some of them literally claimed that rape surveys were to be taken 100% literally and that it's impossible for a woman to lie about rape.
That's the guy I mentioned in D. You're exaggerating what he said. He also wasn't the one who brought up rape.
>>1024532
race doesn't actually exist. It's just people in different regions and varying levels of isolationism based on time and place.
The most connected people were the most advanced. Those that lived along the silk road and around the Mediterranean sea.
Those isolated advanced more slowly. Those living in the Americas, and Sub-Saharan Africa, Indo-China, Siberia, Australia/New Zealand, large parts (usually south-eastern) India, mountainous region of China...
and that's just off the top of my head.
Also, a lot of African history was passed along orally. which means we can use those stories to learn of the history, but it's a hard pill for some people to swallow.
>>1024616
>It's just people in different regions and varying levels of isolationism based on time and place.
That's what a lot of people mean by race.
>Those isolated advanced more slowly. Those living in the Americas, and Sub-Saharan Africa, Indo-China, Siberia, Australia/New Zealand, large parts (usually south-eastern) India, mountainous region of China...
Sub-Saharan Africa actually developed pretty quickly.
>>1022354
The most relevant thing of note in their entire history was that they were colonized by Europe.
And now you're telling me I should admire someone who failed to produce any results in his country because of the opinions of two other statesmen who did?
The value of a thing is judged based on the results it produces, and Africans have produced very little.
>>1024614
Not really. He/she posted surveys as evidence for the 1in4 will get raped in college statistic, which i objected to saying that they are only surveys. He/she kept his/hers position, so i am only left with the assumption that he/she thinks women can't lie about rape.
>>1024630
>The value of a thing is judged based on the results it produces, and Africans have produced very little.
you haven't?
>>1024639
I'm not asking people to study me, bud.
>>1024639
You're actually proving his point by your shitty "you haven't" """""argument""""".
People are only interested in other people who have produced something that is significant.
>>1024645
studying is studying, nothing to do with value judgments
>>1024650
Value judgements determine what you study.
You wouldn't study something if you didn't deem that information valuable.
>>1024653
but others do study it because they deem it valuable and it doesn't have to do with 'results' of which the 'africans' have either achieved nothing or little, depending on what part of your argument it is that a person is reading at the time
>>1024670
>Why doesen't /His/ like any black history?
This was the question I was answering.
I wasn't saying other people shouldn't.
>>1022570
>Syrians are white people with blonde hair
wew
>>1024676
but you believe your value judgment has value despite producing nothing
