Question to a very specific minority on /his/—Christians who support the LGBT community. I know that some of you guys exist in this board. Now, tell me, what's your justification? I'd like to hear your point of view.
>inb4 gay centurion
>inb4 queer Jesus analysis
Anything else besides the aforementioned?
We must try to be like God, and love all unconditionally. All sinners are creatures of God, and will find heaven eventually
>>1020613
>we must try to be like God
That is blasphemy
>>1020613
I think he only wanted Christians to respond.
>>1020613
>and will find heaven eventually
That's not true though. Burning in hell was forever and that's just what all fags and fag lovers will do. In Jesus' name, Amen.
>>1020617
It's the gospel according to satan; the gospel the devil told Eve. Know good and evil, do good and avoid evil, and be like God.
The lie that killed all of mankind. And people still fall for it.
>>1020624
Is there a bible with all of the "heretical" books inside and in order?
I'm ready to read the real bible.
>>1020613
Basically, this is about the one argument that can work. Love thy neighbor, leave the final judgement to god, and so on.
Question: if you take the (old?) Catholic view that all are born sinners and it's the works you do that redeem you, then being gay isn't something you can be punished for but having gay sex is?
>>1020629
The Catholic bible has many of them in it. The Gnostics likely keep their own libraries.
>>1020633
>take the (old?) Catholic view
I would never advise anyone do this.
Gay people have the same problems that everyone else has; they were born dead, and unless they do something to regain the life lost by Adam and Eve, they go to the second death.
In addition to that, most gays are anti-theists first, and gays second. Their identity is wrapped up as being gay, and in being gay, they are seeking the same Love and Acceptance and Meaning and Purpose that we all are.
And most gays are intuitive enough to know that if they turn to Jesus, they can no longer be gay; that they will lose everything that being gay gives them.
It ain't my job to enforce my views other people.
Book of Leviticus says this:
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
God says homos are bad.
Faggotry is as bad as beastiality.
Both are unnatural and perverse.
>>1018812
They aren't Christians if they support fags
>>1020652
>shirking his duty to spread christs love and righteous vengeance
>minimizing the one truth and way into "my views"
I'll pray for you.
>>1020662
>unnatural
What is natural?
>>1020676
As God designed us; male and female to be united as one flesh and produce offspring.
>>1020676
What God made things for.
Unnatural and evil is anything that goes against God's design, purpose and creation.
A key is designed to fit inside a lock.
You can't fit a key into another key.
>>1020680
>>1020681
Hmm...there are an awful lot of unmatched couples...people that will die alone.
I think the next step is to make sure no one is single and everyone is married so that we may all further god's plan to...uh...something. Doesn't matter.
Anyway, mandatory arranged marriages for everyone 30+. Who's with me?
>>1020689
I believe the question was "what is natural".
As you should know, people are free to disobey God. As you may not know, people are not free to escape the consequences thereof.
do you gain anything from doing the christianity thing other than admission into heaven? are there any earthly boons?
>>1020700
yes and as gods soldiers we're guide people towards the light as has been done for centuries.
>>1020741
Depends on if you "feel" faith and it unlocks access to religious qt 3.14s at church.
>>1020741
If you want to be succesful and rich in this life, make a deal with Satan/Lucifer.
Christians are pilgrims in this fallen world, our destination and home is eternal and perfect.
>>1020741
Yes. You get the Holy Spirit living in you as a constant companion and friend in times of trouble; you get to begin a relationship with the living God; you have access to the same power that spoke the universe into existence; you get new eyes to see the world; it's an embarrassment of riches.
>>1020752
Yup. Homosexuality is a wicked abomination before the Lord. So is a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, feet that run towards trouble, a haughty look, a prideful attitude; many things in fact are wicked abominations before a holy God.
>>1020662
Question:
This is in the Old Testament, didn't Jesus make it so we don't have to follow that? Much as eating pork is also an abomination in there, but we can do it just fine as Christians. What's the difference?
>>1020794
We don't need to follow the ceremonial and
laws, that only applied to the ancient Israelites.
The reason we don't need to sacrifice animals anymore is because Jesus is the ultimate sacrifice, the perfect lamb, the atonement for all sins.
But the moral law (10 commandments) is applicable to all mankind.
A Christian should do his best to walk in the ways of God. It is natural that we stumble and fall every now and then, since we are sinners. You just pick up that cross and continue your walk with God.
>>1018812
A Christian has the command to "love thine enemy".
"MUH FEELINGS" and "MUH INTEPRETATIONS OF THE BIBLE" are just that. They are irrelevant to God's commands.
Besides, if the gays want the right to divorce and be unhappy, why should I stop them? I imagine that there will be happy gay marriages. That's gonna happen regardless. But extrapolating divorce statistics from what we have right now, it's more statiscally probable that we're gonna have unhappy gay marriages and eventually divorces.
Yes, it's insanely patronizing of me, but what else can I do? Burn an abortion clinic? Assassinate random gays? Those are far worse than taking delight at the fact that gay divorces will be a thing.
Unchristlike? Yes, but no Christian can be. (All the more Christians need Jesus).
>>1020794
correct, you don't need to follow any of that (salvation is a gift thanks to Christ).
but israel was the model nation, and all those laws were perfect. god obviously knows what is best for humans. so those laws is something we should strive towards, even though nobody does (hebrews themselves couldn't even keep the law to the fullest, let alone any other nation trying to emulate it).
>>1020815
Wait, so every work done in the Sabbath is still a sin?
>>1020860
better tell all the christians they are going to church on the wrong sabbath
>>1020788
Alright anon
What exactly are you looking for?
I'll say that from a purely utilitarian aspect you'll get a close-knit community that you can rely on if things ever get tough for support.
>>1020815
So... there are a lot of statues of saints at my local Catholic church, is that not idolatry?
>>1020788
Hey, I was baptized. I'm allowed to claim Christianity when it suits me. Fuck you.
>>1020788
No clue why you lumped me, #3, in with the other two. I trust it was a mistake.
>>1020905
Nah. Unless you're orthodox.
>>1020905
You're not praying to them, you're praying through them for intersession or some such bullshit.
>>1020794
Meh. If you live your life by the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, you will find by extension that you are not violating any of God's laws.
But it's more than that. By becoming a Christian, you die. You die to the Law, and the Law does not pursue dead people. Moreover, you gain the righteousness of Christ Jesus, which is higher than any righteousness you could have gained under the Law, even if you could follow it (and none did).
That's why Jesus said your righteousness had to exceed the righteousness of the pharisees and scribes, who were both insanely religious people.
>>1020860
As a Christian, I am free to consider any day of the week special as unto the Lord, or none of them.
I am free from the Law, and all of my sins, and all of your sins, were forgiven us at the cross.
>>1020905
Of course it is.
>>1020910
Congratulations on your bathing once.
>>1020905
The point of the statue is to help you focus your mind towards the saint in question and be reminded of their life and obedience to Christ
It's just a piece of marble (or whatever it's made of). You don't pray to it since it's an inanimate object. Just use it to help you think. Like having a picture of a far away or deceased family member in your house to remember them.
>>1020917
Straight up pagan. They just don't admit it, which confuses people.
>>1020930
Yes, that's the point of all idolatry.
>>1020928
Thanks. I also got a rosary and ate a wafer for a few years.
>>1020924
But, that one law was up there will monotheism and not killing people.
>>1020933
No it isn't
Idolatry is the literal belief and worship of an inanimate object as a divine being
If idolatry was what I said then having family pictures would constitute idolatry
My beliefs:
>Don't shit on gays (love the person, hate the sin after all)
>Don't shit on trannies (but they require therapy, not surgery)
>Ideally separate marriage from the government, but at least oppose gay marriage
>>1020668
What defines a Christian, then?
Hey, guys, OP again. So far, not one single anon in this thread have actually met the criteria I've described. I said Christians, who support the LGBT community. Not those who are ignorant of it, those who are supportive of it. I've seen this movement before and I really want to be a part of it. But to do that, I need some sort of justification. C'mon, /his/ couldn't be this fucked up right? There has to be at least 2 people here who are Christian and support gay marriage, r-right? Or is this considered heresy and I should look for another religion?
>>1024310
>Or is this considered heresy and I should look for another religion?
If you're doing Christianity correctly, then it's heresy. If you want to do it incorrectly, there are plenty of Christians and protestant churches that support gay rights.
If the idea of "shopping" for another religion is open to you and you don't already understand the Yahweh is the one true god and his word the only one worth listening to, then Christianity may not be for you at this time.
>>1024320
As for "shopping" for a religion part, it's not really like that. Me, being an agnostic theist for quite some time, I want an ideology to hold on to. To me, God is transcendent, so, any theology any religion offers, to me, is basically full of bollocks. And since I believe that God would be someone who is understanding of this condition where the LGBT community wouldn't be allowed into heaven basically for a reason they can't control.
It's absurd to me and I refuse to worship a God willing to do so. Even if the YHWH as you people describe is true, I'd still refuse to worship such a malevolent dictator. Not only that, I find it logically impossible. Saying that an all-loving God would condemn people to an everlasting death right from the get-go is simply illogical, considering His own words, "Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?"
>>1024480
Being LGBTBBQ isn't a sin and he doesn't condemn people for that. The transgression of flesh is the sin.
God wont punish a gay man, but he will punish a sodomite.
>>1024511
Define "transgression of sin". Is it what's considered natural or what's said as the true form of sexuality in the Bible?
>>1024310
I'm Christian and have close family who are gay. It's never been a problem for me and them and it never will. I don't buy into this idea that homosexual urges are a sin that should be overcome. It doesn't make sense. People are born gay, we know that much is true, so why would God choose to place a greater tendency to sin on one person than the other? We are all loved in God's eyes and wants ALL humanity to be reconciled with Him, this is the message Jesus taught and the message I follow. As a Christian, I believe in what Jesus taught, his example is what we should all aspire to. Saying that Jesus would've hated gays or condemned them for their sin is a gross perversion of his teachings. Love and faith in God are the central tenets of everything he taught, all other things are secondary
i have yet to meet a christian that's pro-LGBT. it's always something like "it's not your choice." that isn't pro-LGBT.
>>1027444
How is it not?
>>1027430
Is this Christian faith just loving people? Don't mean to be rude but that's what I get when people talk about it.
>>1027451
why should it matter whether it's a choice or not? either you accept someone's sexuality as is, without conditions, or you don't. and if you're pretending that isn't connotative of judgment, well i...can only tell you that it hurts to hear something like that.
>>1027482
Pretty much
>>1027504
Being born homosexual isn't a condition of acceptance, I was just under the impression from the gay people I've spoken to that it isn't a choice. I might be wrong, I don't know. Even if it was a choice that's still no reason to condemn them for sin. I believe that Christianity condemns sexually immoral behaviour (rape, molestation etc) regardless of the sexuality of those involved. If a gay relationship is based on trust, love and honesty then it is a beautiful, divine thing. The values which uphold the sanctity of heterosexual marriage apply equally to homosexual ones. Those values and ideals are reflections of God and they appear in both gay and straight relationships. So coming back to your point whether it is a choice or not isn't really important with all things considered. I don't like it when some Christians say 'it's not your fault that you're a sinner'. If that's what you meant then I'm in total agreement with you
>>1020669
>love and righteous vengeance
Is this what Christians actually believe?
>>1018812
There's that whole thing bout "let he who is without sin throw the first stone" or something like that.
Point being is that we shouldn't go around judging people, it's not our place to do that.
>>1027565
>I don't like it when some Christians say 'it's not your fault that you're a sinner'. If that's what you meant then I'm in total agreement with you
Yes, this. All christians I know are like this - you, my friend, are exceptional.
>>1018812
>>>1020668
>What defines a Christian, then?
3 things
Believe in God
Believe Jesus was divine in other words he died and was resurrected.
Believe Jesus is the way to salvation.
Sidenote: According to Jesus the whole of the commandments are love God and love others as you love yourself.
That's basically it.
>>1027565
Hmm.... interesting... so, the justification for this is through simple rationalization? This seems way easier than examining grammar in scriptures. Thank you, anon.
Here's is the real question behind this thread
Why are homosexual acts a sin, if they considered as suchcl, in the eyes God?
Most of us can agree that Jesus commands us to love others. Now if homosexual acts are like most sins self destructive or generally destructive behavior either for the body or the soul/spirituality than the loving thing to do is to counsel a person away from such actions. I say counsel not condemn as it would be nonsensical to show love to a drug addict by enabling his behavior.
So again if homosexual acts are sinful and this is admittedly debated by liberal thelogians then one most show love by encouraging another to sin no more.
The problem is of course its easy to explain why murder is a sin. No one wants to be killed really, but when two people want to fuck (infidelity and premarital sex are also sins) it hard to explain why that could be wrong.
There are some psychologically based arguments, and some arguments on such and such acts being detrimental to a society but these are difficult to prove and are seen as subjective and tthese days offensive.
>>1027686
You could argue that homosexual acts within a loving relationship are neither self destructive nor generally destructive to the body or the soul but are rather an expression of the loving bond between two people. When it does become destructive is when these acts are committed in a harmful way (infidelity, sexual abuse). Thus homosexual acts become sinful when they harm others in the exact same way as heterosexual acts are. The point of disagreement is how some people believe homosexual acts are, by their very nature, sinful. Numerous arguments exist to support that view, whether its how homosexuality doesn't follow the natural order, wasting of semen or quoting the Old Testament, none of which I find very convincing
>>1018812
I consider myself christian, but i dont really care much about anything in the bible besides the gospels. Jesus was based, Paul was an idiot and all the old testament is irrelevant to me. Just love people and dont be a dick.
>>1027686
I once heard a hypothesis that the only reason that law existed was to pressure gays into heterosexual marriage, thus producing offspring to fuel wars. Seems far-fetched; moronic, even. What do you think?
>>1028130
Yeah, why did Paul have any legitimacy, again? Jesus' other students hated him, there's some floating word that he once met Jesus in Arabia, blabbity-blabbity-bla, etc.
>>1028162
Honestly, when the bible is just a collection put together by a bunch of old guys with their own agendas. I just go with the themes i think are just.
>>1028174
That reminds me; who decides which books are to be taken from the Apocrypha and into the Bible, again?
