Hey /g/, I'm trying to gauge interest in a potential startup, in light of the EV thread.
What would it take for you to commute by e-bike or light electric scooter most days of the week?
Elevated bike lanes away from the fucking welfare trash running people over with their cars.
+50 years of age so I can't ride a regular bike anymore.
Make it not rain all the fucking time and remove all cars from the roads.
>>55321511
I already pedal my bike to work year around. Motor assist may be attractive for longer journies. The magic bullet for me is either the cost or the possibility to retrofit a motor to my existing bike. How long/far could I go on a charge?
>>55321628
ebike = you still pedal, you just cover more ground doing it.
I already commute greener than an electric bicycle
A bike with at least 100 HP (75 kW) @ 5300 RPM so that i can GO SPEEDU RACER whenever the urge arises
No, seriously. Gotta go fast https://youtu.be/DyPsw9Czwe0
You're too late. Already been done.
>>55321645
basically all of this. it's also a little tricky because i park my bike indoors but the thought of plugging it in seems a little obnoxious. i'd be happy if the battery came as a portable battery pack that i could also/alternatively use as a usb power bank (e.g. pic related)
>>55321595
agreed
>>55321628
do you normally commute by bike?
>>55321644
rain is a slight annoyance but not a big deal w/ proper gear (that most people are unwilling to buy for whatever reason)
>>55321645
a $700 conversion would get you about 30 miles of range, that is ~$200 for a kit and ~$500 for a battery. You can go cheaper if you are a DIY kind of person.
>>55321728
wear your helmet
>>55321737
Maybe 0.0001% of the population owns an ebike
>>55321741
easily doable. I have two bikes, one with a permanently attached battery pack and another with a removeable battery stored in a topeak mtx rail bag on my rear rack
>>55321728
>100HP from a bicycle
Until we have conveniently small nuclear generators, just get a fucking motorbike then you autist. Perhaps that a power to weight ratio of nearly 10000hp per ton AKA death trap.
e-bikes suck shit,kid
>>55321795
>>55321776
>this bootyblast
you asked me what it would take fro me to get interested in eBikes and i told you. Why get angry?
>>55321821
100HP on a 300lb vehicle? That would be like the fastest vehicle in the history of mankind
>>55321776
>easily doable
not necessarily. what capacity does a bike need? if it's more than 20,000 mAh then you're definitely looking at a bigger brick than the one i pictured, which means users are probably not going to be willing to carry it around as a powerbank.
it would be a step in the right direction just to make the battery removable (for one thing, you wouldn't want to risk it being out in the elements, or potentially stolen, or whatever), but the real "next step" would be to make it small enough to be viable for carrying around with a laptop and other stuff. if you need a sizable battery to make augmented pedaling for ~30 miles practical, then you might need to wait for larger capacity batteries to become smaller (there's some carbon-based tech coming through the pipeline that might make this feasible).
part of the issue too is that $700 is kind of a bit of money. i spent a fair amount on a good bike and that would (not quite, but almost) double the value of my road bike. would a retrofit of future bikes be possible? like if i upgraded my bike in 5 years, would it be possible/practical to take the kit from bike A to bike B?
>>55321886
*20Ah
>>55321511
Problems
>Associated with poor physical health/laziness. Only people around here who use them are old people
>Usually look really boring and conservative. Most young people like road bikes and minimal aesthetics and whatever. Try to find a nice way to hide the battery, most designs I've seen are incredibly ugly.
>Cumbersome to charge, so you probably want a detachable battery or something like that.
>Usually really heavy. Was quite surprised by the weight when I tried one pretty recently. But then again, my bike weighs only about 10kg.
>>55321870
>300 LB bicycle
The fuck is the frame made of? Uranium? Most (properly made, not BSO chinkshits from walmart) bicycles weigh between 15 and 25 lbs so it's even more extreme than you think.
>>55321821
I'm not angry, im just saying that 100HP on a normal bicycle is.... unwieldy to say the least.
>>55321511
If I can commute by bike, why wouldn't commute by a normal bike?
What does your product offer better than a normal bike for a normal commute?
>>55321935
>The fuck is the frame made of? Uranium? Most (properly made, not BSO chinkshits from walmart) bicycles weigh between 15 and 25 lbs so it's even more extreme than you think.
>not incorporating the weight of the driver with the gross weight of the vehicle
>>55321914
We can relay it in any unit we want; since battery capacities tend to be reported in milliamp hours i figured sticking to mAh made more sense.
i don't know anyone who talks about smartphone batteries as 6.4Ah, for instance, despite being in the thousands range.
>>55321946
>What does your product offer better than a normal bike for a normal commute?
>no sweating (if desired)
>faster
>more cargo capacity
>hilly terrain is no longer a problem
>>55321950
>weight of the driver
>plus the weight of the bike
>300lb
dude you're either more familiar with metric and grossly misestimating the conversion rate, or you're a goddamn manatee riding a bicycle
>>55321950
Because given what is expected of most peoples weights and in view that 100HP number, the weight really becomes negligible with such a power-weight ratio.
>>55321960
I've just always seen it retarded to use unreduced capacities. I bought a pair of headphones the other day, only cost me 2000ยข
>>55321776
>a $700 conversion would get you about 30 miles of range
That same $700 will get you three or four gas motor kits, or even a used motorcycle.
>>55322008
but in many places a battery-augmented bicycle is considered legal for bike lanes and whatnot, whereas a gas-powered motorcycle/moped/what-have-you is considered a street vehicle (requires a license of some sort)
i'm not saying i'm keen on the battery idea OP is presenting, but there are trade-offs that are more subtle than we're acknowledging.
>>55322007
we almost never use the centiliters unit despite often dealing with things in the hundreds of milliliters. does that bother you as well?
hell, with the exception of meters, the centi prefix is (almost) never used.
>>55321979
>not counting his qt 10/10 gf riding on the back.
>>55322060
Nah
>>55322032
In most places a motorized bicycle is still a bicycle or at least a legal grey area.
At absolute worst you'd need to show up to a single town hall meeting and say "bruh it's still a bike though" so the city council will say "sounds legit".
>>55322007
The whole SI system must be pure autism fuel for you then. The system itself is all good, but people just don't really use it as it's supposed to be used. Deal with it, it's really not that difficult.
>>55321595
This desu.
I currently cycle and I risk riding on the sidewalk and getting a ticket everyday to avoid all of the scumfuck degenerate mongoloids who text and drive.
I'd rather argue with a cop about the legality of my actions that get ran over and killed.
>>55321886
lots of removable batteries on the market
at some point you are limited by battery design. The 3.5Ah 18650s are the most power dense cells for commercial sale. You could get something like 10Ah out of something this size: http://lunacycle.com/batteries/packs/52v/52v-mighty-mini-cube-samsung-ebike-battery-pack-30q-6ah-3-pounds/
> like if i upgraded my bike in 5 years, would it be possible/practical to take the kit from bike A to bike B?
yes, no problem
>>55321979
I'm 230lb, my ebike + battery + lock + commuting bag/laptop/gym clothes is ~300lbs, I don't see how that's ludicrous
>>55322141
complete opposite
no legislation is good legislation
I would MUCH MUCH MUCH rather operate in a legal grey area than to be limited to some arcane wattage or speed limit imagined up by my inept city council
>>55321979
>160 lb male
>20 lb frame
>5 lb lock
>20 lb bag
>25 lb battery
Still only 230. That guy is confirmed manatee on a bike. How can you commute via cycle and be overweight?
I don't ride my bike more than a mile to the train station, so I don't think I'll need anything like this ever.
>>55322305
Operating in a legal grey area means you're leaving it entirely up to the interpretation of whichever cop happens to be behind quota and having a bad day.
>>55322277
>lots of removable batteries on the market
yeah again i'm saying that removable and highly portable are very different things. your car's battery is removable.
>>55321511
If they could travel 20 kilometers in less than 30 minutes on actual highways
>>55322353
I don't run into cops like that and they don't give me shit because I'm not a degenerate. In fact, we have cops that use e-bikes here. They are well aware that more e-bikes means less cars and they are fine with that
>>55322326
> not even incorporating the weight of the motor
100hp is gonna weigh quite a bit.
>>55322326
>160 lb male
holy shit
>>55322334
good deal, sounds like you chose a good place to live
>>55322355
what is your definition of highly portable? You can get 3lb batteries that will get you 10 miles with pedal assist. Anything beyond that is outside the realm of our current knowledge of chemistry and physics
>>55322360
can do
Kits are available. I've seen ones that supposedly go up to 50 mph. Aerodynamically, bikes hit a wall at 30mph, so efficiency would hit same wall. The added torque can cause metal fatigue on the frame, so consider additional bracing. Also wheel bearing wear and brake wear from added torque, weight and speeds.
>>55322326
>5lb lock
>20lb bag
a heavy duty bike lock should weigh more like 3-4lbs, but sure. my laptop weighs 5lbs max, and i can't imagine what else you're carrying to make 20lbs. i could understand if you were talking about biking home with groceries, but i would imagine that you'd anticipate more than 20lbs in that case, so that's a very weird estimate.
a 25lb battery definitively takes the battery outside of the portable range that we were talking about earlier. an ideal battery pack would be one that i could carry in my messenger bag or whatever, and use as a power bank, as previously mentioned.
>>55322443
>25 pounds is not portable
Manlet alert!
>>55322376
>I don't run into cops like that
wow so they must not exist at all then, right?
>>55322469
you're going to be absolutely devastated when you realize that nobody's impressed that you carry around 25lb batteries on a daily basis.
they'll act impressed when they see your knife, but they're all just scared of the autist.
I commute with pic related because it's cheap and awesome.
>>55322443
I have a 15Ah 52V battery made of soft-sided LiPo and it weighs 15lbs
If you used 3.5Ah 18650s to make the same battery it would be even lighter.
This gives me a hypothetical 60 mile range. I commute 8 miles to work each day (round trip) and charge once a week on Sunday.
Most people would need less.
>>55322476
do you not understand how the law works? If you are operating in a legal gay area, they can't just up and up ticket you, they would need to pass a law first outlawing what you were doing, and thanks to habeus corpus you would be unaffected
You sound like a 15 year-old that thinks that the government only passes laws to GIVE you rights.
>>55322488
You literally have to move it twice a day.
>They'll act impressed when they see your knife
Where is that even coming from? Is this some bizarre manlet tactic?
>>55322503
we can find an optimal size for most riders given the distances they travel, but i suspect that the truth is motor-augmented bikes will be hamstrung until better batteries than lithium become available.
the motor and even the cost, we can all take, but a 15(to 25)lb battery with such limitations is a bridge too far for many people
>>55322524
i said earlier that i'm not interested in a battery that i can't reasonably use as a power bank as well, so that would mean carrying it around with me as well.
if i can only use it to power the motor, then i'm even less likely to remember to bring it in and charge it, which means i'll have ~25lbs + whatever weight the motor is of dead weight.
>>55322533
That's really a limitation? Freeing yourself from gas and spending literally 3 cents a week to 'fill' up your battery on electricity? Because people don't want to carry around 10lbs of battery (enough for several commutes)? They might as well just use a frame battery then.
>>55322563
limitations in terms of range, sure.
you make it sound like there's no cost to riding around with a dead battery and motor. a bike is a very light way to get around, whereas a motorized bike with no juice in it is not an especially light way to get around.
>>55322561
>that i can't reasonably use as a power bank as well
There is nothing stopping you or a battery company from slapping a dc buck converter and a usb port on a ebike battery for a few bucks (a lot of ebike controllers have USB ports already). The problem is there's no demand.
>>55322582
do you forget to fill up your car with gas? why would you forget to charge up your ebike then? why is only one of these scenarios feasible in your mind?
>>55322427
What, is being 6'0 160 not a usual thing where you're from?
Most of the people I know do some sort of athletic activity and lots of cardio. Unless you're a muscle man or a fat ass this is right at the sweet spot for the male physique.
>>55322425
I figured the 25lb battery was some a battery/motor combo. I don't need 100hp on a bike either, jesus. Isn't 1hp roughly 550ft/lbs of force?
I could get by with a 10 hp motor easy as just a ride assist, and 25 seems like the upper limit for what I can see being feasible on your standard road bike frame. Past that much power I'm gonna want a much sturdier frame, upping weight anyway.
>>55322443
I got used to commuting from campus with a few large textbooks in my bag. Easily 20-30 lbs on my back. I guess you're right though, that's outside of the usual parameters for most riders.
ebikes really seem pointless to me. In the city, where they might make sense (due to range and speed restrictions), there's already loads of public transport. I'd much rather just take the subway or ride a bus, where I can relax in safety, than deal with traffic on a tiny bike.
Where they make sense are 3rd world cities with terrible public transport, as a 1:1 replacement for gas scooters.
>>55322622
>I could get by with a 10 hp motor easy as just a ride assist, and 25 seems like the upper limit for what I can see being feasible on your standard road bike frame. Past that much power I'm gonna want a much sturdier frame, upping weight anyway.
A 2 HP (1500W) e-bike will easily get you up to 30mph. I could barely imagine a 10hp setup (7500W, some exist, they easily go 80mph) let alone 25HP. That would be a fucking death ride, probably near 150mph easy.
>>55322678
Not every city has public transportation.
>>55322678
>there's already loads of public transport
most cities are not remotely like this
>>55322704
Every single city worth living in has public transit and any city with no transit is going to be a deathtrap for cyclists anyway.
>>55321595
some pain pill popping idiot driving a van hit and killed a young boy in broad daylight on a 35 mph street right here in my neighborhood. that boy was on a skateboard though.
>>55322764
>Every single city worth living in has public transit
Nope
>any city with no transit is going to be a deathtrap for cyclists anyway
Nope
>>55322622
25hp is what you'd get on a 200-250cc motorcycle! (that will weigh 200-250 pounds). That's a LOT of power.
>>55322764
I figure any city without public transport will be so spread out, and so dependent on freeways, that you'd really want a car to 'get out of it'.
>>55322764
The attitute of someone who has never been a cyclist.
>>55322622
Just found this page, mind you this is calculated for a tri track, but i did some quick googling for frontal area and coefficient of friction for cycles and found this.
Looks like my estimate of 25 was off, and given a vehicle of around 260 lbs you need 35-40 hp to reach and maintain speeds of 45 mph.
So you need an electric motor capable of supplying ~30,000 watts?
How much does that weigh?
>>55321511
No more snow
No cars in the road that would kill me
A/C
Stereo
>>55322816
have you ever traveled? there are plenty of cities in first-world countries that have a dense urban core and no or extremely shitty public transportation
>>55322816
Nope again. I not only get around my city on board but also go from city to city on board. In addition to highways there are backroads that take you from city to city
>>55322698
>>55322799
>>55322828
Oh wait I guess I'm retarded.
I never was very good at mathematical concepts.
OP if you need someone to help sell the product to people I'm all yours but don't let me near the design or you'll have a rocket powered death bike.
>>55322828
>Looks like my estimate of 25 was off, and given a vehicle of around 260 lbs you need 35-40 hp to reach and maintain speeds of 45 mph.
Are you seriously this retarded? I get up to 45mph on my 3000W (72V, 40A) motor...that's 4 HP.
>>55322859
>>55322853
See above. Yes I am.
>>55322838
Apart from American flyover hellscapes give an example?
>>55322818
t. teenager who watched Line of Sight a dozen times
>>55322859
But hey check it out I was off by a 0 place. I estimated 30,000 and you're using a 3,000.
Closer than I would have imagined for my first time doing this sort of calculation and like 3 minutes of googling.
>>55322877
>Apart from American flyover hellscapes give an example?
>Apart from 80% of the country, give an example
Atlanta, GA
Orlando, FL
Birmingham, AL
Knoxville, TN
Richmond, VA
Jackson, MS
That's just a few in the south
>>55322953
None of these are first-world by any reasonable definition.
>>55322975
>moving goalposts
>>55322975
hurr durr
>>55322953
In cities like that I'd be pretty paranoid about someone stealing my all-too-stealable electric bike.
Also consider that in low-density sprawling cities, people needs to carry a lot of stuff - like food and any other purchases - long distances from the point of purchase to their homes. It's not easy to put a weeks worth of groceries on a scooter (not really an issue in a real city where you can buy your groceries an easy walk from home).
>>55323063
>It's not easy to put a weeks worth of groceries on a scooter
Jesus christ stop moving the goalposts. The original question was:
>What would it take for you to commute by e-bike or light electric scooter most days of the week?
>most
I'm not saying that you need to do 100% of your commuting by e-bike or bicycle, I'm just asking if it would be feasible for people to replace maybe 3-4 of their commutes a week with an e-bike.
>regardless, they have things like pic-related or you can just slap on a used baby/dog bike stroller if you really needed to
>>55321511
See, this is why you are fat, America.
In Holland, grandmas and children ride 20kg single speed hi-ten citybikes and nobody complains.
>>55323063
>it's impossible
>it'll never work
I know way too many people like you
>>55323155
Nobody complains about it in America either.
>>55323172
That's because nobody rides.
Op only if it has 100hp+ then i will buy ut
>>55323155
>what are mountains
>what is crushing heat
>what is bicycle infrastructure
you do realize that Holland is basically mother nature's perfect place for bike commuting? I wouldn't want to have Mr. F350 bearing down on my ass trying to get up a hill in Colorado when it's 100 degrees out and I'm trying to get to work
>>55323185
But that's false. I see people biking and skating all the fucking time.
>>55321511
no rain
>>55323231
what is wrong with the rain? Can't you just throw a rainjacket and rainpants on?
>>55323218
As their daily commute?
>>55323188
>>55321728
>le 100 Horsepower on a bicycle meme
Why?
>>55323157
I'm a big fan of scooters, bicycles, and small motorcycles. Have lived in and traveled around southeast asia on small motorcycles/scooters. Have done long bicycle tours in North America. This year I'm going a smallish motorcycle (350cc) Canada-to-Patagonia trip.
But in the developed world, I really can't think of a scenario where a bicycle or e-bike would actually be practical everyday transport, unless you lived in some small dense town that somehow hasn't been Walmart-ized yet (some leafy college town or something). Otherwise it'll either be too spread out or too busy, and in both cases there are better alternatives (ideally public transport, failing that a car).
>>55323271
I don't know most of them so I can't really say what they're doing
>>55323316
You seem like a little bitch
>>55323316
>>55323332
some people have lived their entire lives so far removed from nature that they find normal weather unpleasant
>>55323332
>>55323365
suck a dick you rain-loving faggots
Wait, there's a bike that exists such that when you pedal, it generates electricity which can then be used to propel you once you need a break? I'm stealing this op.
>>55323410
I said nothing about loving rain, I'm simply calling you a little bitch because you're apparently incapable of getting wet.
>>55323365
Some people have jobs and need to show up for work without being drenched in mud and oil and road grime.
>>55323413
well that idea would be retarded but a lot of ebike controllers support e-brake regen, although you'll only recoup maybe 15 extra % or so. I like it because it means my brakes wear out more slowly
>>55323427
>incapable of getting wet.
don't pull your mom into this, faggot
>>55323430
but that's on the outside of your rainpants and rainjacket, not on your work clothes
>drenched in mud and oil and road grime
do you seriously equate riding a bike in the rain to working the oil fields in Fallujah?
>>55321776
>a $700 conversion would get you about 30 miles of range, that is ~$200 for a kit and ~$500 for a battery. You can go cheaper if you are a DIY kind of person.
I'm from the netherlands so I use my bike daily.
a conversion kit could be extremely popular over here since people already have a bike to commute with.
>>55321511
I would like to see the bike battery charge through braking, possibly a mode through pedaling, and I would like it to be able to charge a phone clipped to my handlebars for maps.
>>55323476
I
m sorry, what was that? I can't hear you over all your bitching and moaning
>>55323443
Why is it a bad idea? You'd increase the distance you can travel, make it easier to go uphill, and you'd still get exercise given that the pedalling is what produces the electricity.
Of course, this probably already exists.
>>55323485
there are plenty available from China on aliexpress, etc
Basically they take the individual components (hub motor, controller, throttle, PAS, etc) and wire them up for you with nice connectors, lace the hub motor, etc. Nothing that can't be done on your own if you want to buy wholesale. But it's chinese labor so it doesn't add much to the cost.
I'm surprised you don't have more of this stuff in the netherlands desu. There are even some AIO solutions like the copenhagen wheel that just require a wheel swap and pair with your smartphone
They would have to be better than my road bike (hint hint, they're not)
My baby lets me go 10km to work in something like 20 minutes.
>>55323557
storing electricity while you pedal isn't free, it will cause drag because of regen. You want to store the power while you brake (which already exists). That way the drag is useful.
>>55323578
>(hint hint, they're not)
I guarantee you I go faster and with less effort to work on my ebike than you do on your road bike
>>55323572
we may have this somewhere in the netherlands, but it's not mainstream since I have never seen it.
It could also be the bigger companies not wanting to push this idea.
>>55323636
>effort
Sure. I've been training in cycling for years, though.
I wouldn't want to make it easy :^)
I pass electric bikes here on the regular.
>>55323482
>but that's on the outside of your rainpants and rainjacket, not on your work clothes
The jacket is weather resistant, not weather proof.
If your commute was any longer than ten minutes you'd know that.
>>55323893
>I buy shit outdoor gear
I already commute via fixed gear with gearing suitable for my commute and a fancy pants road bike
I have been thinking about getting a cyclo cross bike to be a bit more relaxed on my commute but the only thing that would get me to ride an e bike is probably if I got a health issue or something to dehibatate me
>>55321511
I'd do it if i didn't need a class M liscence. Thats too much work to save a couple dollars on gasoline. My car is already pretty efficient, and I walk if i need to be somewhere less than 3 miles away (assuming i don't need to bring a bunch of stuff)
>>55323636
No you don't because ebike engines cut off at something like 30 km/h, which any fred on a road bike can beat easily.
>>55321628
I regularly tour with people who are in their 50s, up into the 70s. Century-a-day pace.
Is there something wrong with you? / Did you not take care of your body when you were younger?
>>55323430
These exist.
>>55324246
Your work has showers? Not everybody works at a gym, anon.
>>55321595
This
Fuck biking in America, you get hit as often as anyone could
>>55321511
You would have to pay me.
I live far enough from my job that it would take me at least 10 times as long to get there, if not more.
I still need my truck for other things, so I would be paying to charge the electric thing and still buying fuel for the truck.
Such a thing just isn't feasible unless you live in a big city.
>>55324035
>ebike engines cut off at something like 30 km/h
uninformed much?
>>55324355
Inform me.
>>55323430
>mud
Don't roll on the ground, just use a bike.
>oil
If you take care of your bike, you don't have to put the chain back on every 10 meters, and if you don't touch the chai, you won't get oil on you.
>road grime
where the fuck do you live?
I mean driving in the rain is less than ideal, but you just take on a jacket that is rain resistant and it is seldom a problem.
It doesn't rain every day and certainly not every time you commute.
It might be a problem if you are driving from customer to customer and meet with 10 different clients every day or have to go really far to get to work. Then yes, you are excused.
But riding a bike does not make you dirty (but if you are obese, then you should take a second shirt because you people seem to sweat a lot)
>>55324374
only shit walmart-tier pre-made ebikes have speed limits (which are usually easily overrided)
I've never seen a kit or a stock controller have a speed limit (though some have pcb pads that you can bridge to engage one)
>>55324268
Your work doesn't? They are a standard in any moderately sized office or service building. Just because your floor doesn't have one doesn't mean there isn't one in the building. But even if, where there's a will, there is a way.
>>55324559
Those limits are mandated by law.
>>55324629
no, the definition of the federal law has never been tested, and that's only the legality of SELLING an ebike, not using one:
http://ebike.research.pdx.edu/sites/default/files/NITC-RR-564_Regulations_of_E-Bikes_in_North_America_2.pdf
As it stands, only state and local municipalities can create laws regarding ebikes on public roads, and there are only a handful of cities that have such laws in effect.
Please do some research before you spout bullshit on an already bullshit-infested internet.
