Are VIM and Emacs just memes?
Do professional programmers actually use them or is it just wannabe coders who think writing code in a terminal makes them feel like a "pro hacker"?
I don't understand why someone would want to use a terminal text editor over an actual IDE designed for programming with mouse support.
Do professional programmers actually use them?
Is navigating through code with a bunch of keystrokes actually any faster?
What about all the debugging and other extra features IDEs can provide that these text editors lack?
>>55270023
>Do professional programmers actually use them?
Don't think so
>>55270023
>Are VIM and Emacs just memes?
No
>Do professional programmers actually use them or is it just wannabe coders who think writing code in a terminal makes them feel like a "pro hacker"?
Pros do use them. It's just that the entry to them can be tedious to learn.
>I don't understand why someone would want to use a terminal text editor over an actual IDE designed for programming with mouse support.
Emacs has a graphical display you could call an IDE. Gvim also has an IDE.
>Is navigating through code with a bunch of keystrokes actually any faster?
Hell yes.
>What about all the debugging and other extra features IDEs can provide that these text editors lack?
Emacs has a plethora of debugging features. It's practically it's own OS. Not sure about vim.
>>55270023
It depends a lot on the langauge.
For many languages outside th big IDE C++/C#/Java, emacs/vim are your best IDE.
Most of those features, especially debugging, they can do quite well.
Mainly just refactoring they tend to be weak in.
And if you aren't in a windows shop, then no VS for C++.
So yes, a good chunk uses them exclusively, the other good chunk only occasionally needs to open up vim or emacs.
Then a small chunk uses sublime or nano or atom or some shit.
No professional programmer doesn't regularly use some text editor, IDEs don't cover everything.
>>55270023
>Are VIM and Emacs just memes?
No.
>Do professional programmers actually use them or is it just wannabe coders who think writing code in a terminal makes them feel like a "pro hacker"?
Both.
>I don't understand why someone would want to use a terminal text editor over an actual IDE designed for programming with mouse support.
Only vim users like to use terminal text editor. Most of the emacs users I know use a graphical version.
>Do professional programmers actually use them?
Yes.
>Is navigating through code with a bunch of keystrokes actually any faster?
Yes.
>What about all the debugging and other extra features IDEs can provide that these text editors lack?
It depends on the language, I have never seen a Java developer using (only) vim/emacs. Most of those IDE features can be add with plugins.
>>55270071
outside the big IDE covered language realm like *
Emacs doubles as an IDE and it has a GUI version.
I'm relatively new to Vim and I could easily see how it could be faster once you learn it better
>>55270023
Vim is a comfy editor and it's a great tool to have at your disposal once you get accustomed to it. So it's not a meme.
But it's not necessary. The meme is that Vim will make you a better programmer. It's utter bollocks. And don't fall for the meme of trying to convert Vim into an IDE, it's really not and you have nothing to gain, you only waste all the good things of Vim.
Same for Emacs guess.
Neovim on the other hand is a meme. Stay away.
>>55270132
This, the editor is a tool, but it won't magically make you a better programmer.
Can someone explain the point of learning all the keystrokes? Why not just use your scrollwheel and click to navigate code? Its not like you are non stop coding as soon as you touch a keyboard so even if it is faster to use keystrokes that's probably not a major bottleneck
>>55270023
I do embedded Linux development for my job.
I use vim for my main text editor because I'm used to it, but mainly because I can use it WHEREVER. A lot of our embedded SBC (single board computers) only have serial connections. It's infinitely easier to use vim instead of file transfer protocols. Also, doesn't apply to me but if your sysadmin and need to SSH into a machine and make some changes, what the hell else are you gonna use?
>>55270023
I know a few programmers who seriously use VIM as their main text editor but most just use Notepad++, havent seen Emacs in use yet professionally
work at a java shop
no one uses vim/emacs
maybe that explains all the rajas and pajeetis
as others have said, knowing how to use vim is nice because it is going to be on any linux box you hit. however, you would be fucking insane to actually try and develop something complicated on it
>>55270023
> Are vim and emacs just a meme?
I use vim almost exclusively to program in, and I have a degree in software engineering.
> I don't understand why someone would use a terminal...
You can move much faster if you never touch a mouse. You don't realize how much time you spend positioning the mouse and resizing windows when working until you have a good keyboard driven system.
> ...over an IDE
IDEs are shit. They foster bad programming habits. They make programming seem like it's some sort of mystic art that no one person could ever hope to understand. Bullshit. All you need to program is a good editor (vim) and a good compiler (gcc).
> Is navigating a bunch of keystrokes actually faster
Much much faster. It may not seem like that when you first start to use these programs and you haven't gotten use to the keystrokes, but once mastered (it takes effort), you glide faster than people can watch.
> What about debugging and other extra features of IDE?
Shit. All of them. Debuggers are crutches that foster shotgun programming rather than reasoning about your code. All the bells and whistles like code completion serve to distract more than help.
If you have doubts that keyboard is superior than mouse for dev work, I highly suggest Xmonad, a window manager. It's a UI whose job is to automatically position programs and allow a user to flip between windows without a mouse at all. It's a pain in the ass to configure, but once you got it setup, it's the best computing experience you could ask for.
>>55270180
Because muscle memory and stuff. IDE pretty much have the same thing.
>>55270023
I use vim almost exclusively, but our deliverable is a gui-less debian derivative, so cli editors are a must for debugging.
>>55270180
When you are trying to find something in a book you just flip all the pages or you just look at the alphabetical index, find the page you are looking for and open the book at said page?
Same with Vim. You don't care on each line something is. You just want to jump straight to it. By using a motion like /foo it's like using the index but it's much quicker. After a while you don't even think about it, it's just natural and you are chaining number and motions.
And then it clicks and you combine motions with commands and you can use the same tools and mental processed to navigate and edit your text.
Also you don't have to learn all the keystrokes. Take thevimtutor, use gVim (don't listen to the hipsters, GUI Vim is much better most of the time than terminal Vim) and don't be embarrassed to use the scrollwheel or the arrow keys while you are learning, gVim supports them just fine.
>>55270041
i am a professional programmer who uses vim
>>55270023
I'm a pro and I use Vim. I live in the terminal and editing files is only part of my job. If I want anything else that an IDE would give me I just hop back into the terminal to do it. To actual edit files Vim is lightweight and fast and I grok it well enough to use it very efficiently.
E M A C S
M A K E S
A
C O M P U T E R
S L O W
>>55270383
maybe 20 years ago
>>55270383
Eclipse single-handedly made that acronym obsolete.
>>55270383
Better than waiting an hour for an IDE to start
>>55270426
Isn't Atom even slower and more bloated than Eclipse and it actually has even less features out of the box than Vim, Emacs or Eclipse?
>>55270452
Slower? Yes.
More bloated? I don't think so.
>>55270452
atom is not slower, and it has less features because it's a text editor not an IDE
>>55270023
>Are VIM and Emacs just memes?
everything's a meme to the right faggot
>Do professional programmers actually use them or is it just wannabe coders who think writing code in a terminal makes them feel like a "pro hacker"?
both, just like VS is used by both professional programmers and brain addled college code monkeys like you
>I don't understand why someone would want to use a terminal text editor over an actual IDE designed for programming with mouse support.
because you are dumb
>Is navigating through code with a bunch of keystrokes actually any faster?
yes
>What about all the debugging and other extra features IDEs can provide that these text editors lack?
you use plugins for highlighting and autocomplete and... an actual debugger to debug and compiler to compile
if you absolutely have to have them all in the same window just use tmux or something
>>55270192
> if your sysadmin and need to SSH into a machine and make some changes, what the hell else are you gonna use?
nano.
I tried to use vim a few times and really want to learn it, but I couldn't even figure out how to delete a newline.
>>55270023
>Are VIM and Emacs just memes?
No
>Do professional programmers actually use them or is it just wannabe coders who think writing code in a terminal makes them feel like a "pro hacker"?
Its very useful when sshing an the likes
>I don't understand why someone would want to use a terminal text editor over an actual IDE designed for programming with mouse support.
They usually dont
>Do professional programmers actually use them?
Yeah, but not as a substitute to an IDE
>Is navigating through code with a bunch of keystrokes actually any faster?
Yes, by far
>What about all the debugging and other extra features IDEs can provide that these text editors lack?
The best way to enjoy all worlds is to install a vim plugin to your ide
>>55270254
> you would be fucking insane to actually try and develop something complicated on it
I think you meant "you would be fucking insane to actually try and develop something complicated WITHOUT it"
>>55270023
Professional programmers in non-meme fields typically use emacs, vim or $flavor_of_the_month (such as sublime or atom). Very few use IDEs.
Additionally, they mostly use macs, with some people using GNU instead. Very few use windows.
>>55270539
>sysadmin
>can't even use a text editor
I refuse to believe this, how can someone so brain dead be trusted with anything.
>>55270625
Protip: his name is pajeet.
Linus uses says he uses a form of emacs as he codes. And he's not just some hacker wanna be.
>>55270067
>>Is navigating through code with a bunch of keystrokes actually any faster?
>Hell yes.
this
>>55270132
why is neovim a meme?
>>55270662
His Emacs is barebones as fuck, I think even joe is more functional.
>>55270023
I use Vim plugins in all my editors. Less keystrokes to get more done. Just keep a chart on your desk and highlight the useful ones.
There's a lot of useless Vim stuff that you don't need. The main ones that will benefit you basically forever are navigation, line/character manipulation stuff, motherfucking VISUAL MODE, basic vim commands like :split/:vsplit for multi-file editing. When you want to do something cool while editing, Vim probably has something for it and you'll discover something cool you'll add to you Vim repertoire.
Don't bother with pimping out your actual Vim, just use simple vim with simple vimrc to set indentation and line numbers and you're basically all set. Get a Vim plugin on Sublime/Atom/IntelliJ/whatever.
>>55270687
Broken piece of shit without half the features of vim pretending it'll ever be even 1% usable.
I use IntelliJ IDEA with a vim plugin at work, gvim at home.
>>55270625
>>55270643
I'm not a sysadmin. It's just the noob thing to use over ssh.
>>55270730
just D
>>55270704
Before I knew about visual mode I would count the number of lines I wanted to dd and yy.
>>55270706
This
>>55270737
Same number of keystrokes.
>>55270738
:set rnu
>>55270718
Aren't you ashamed of being a noob?
>>55270775
Thanks, might consider using it.
>>55270704
>line numbers
I strongly disagree with that.
Vim's motion make line numbers useless and they are only visual noise.
I think new vim users should try to use vim without line numbers and enable them only if they can't live without them.
>>55270810
Line numbers are useful for when you want to quickly jump to them, with:<line number>.
>>55270082
Every GUI application for Vim is shit. Someone needs to create a new one.
>>55270833
>:<ln>
>not <ln>G
noob
>>55270730
>>55270737
I guess I meant "J". I thought deleting a newline was the same as any other character. Thanks anyway.
>>55270023
It is used professionally, usually not for programming though.
Vim's used a lot for editing config files and stuff. In embedded, Vim's also really popular because it's the only powerful editor that's installed on nearly anything, I've used vi on a stripped down 256MB flash-memory computer to edit some scripts on there.
Seriously, that thing is as ubiquitous as the command line itself
>>55270850
no u
Overall I'm not sure about vim, but I know quite a bit about emacs.
>Do professional programmers actually use them
I am a professional (though entry level) developer that uses emacs for my job. I also personally know a google java developer that uses emacs for all of his programming, so yes pros do use them.
>I don't understand why someone would want to use a terminal text editor over an actual IDE designed for programming with mouse support.
Both emacs and vim can have mouse support. The thing you have to realize is while the built in features of IDEs are nice, but we're programmers, and we want editors we can easily extend ourselves. 99% of the features you have in an IDE you can get in emacs, and you can even implement very specific that you CAN'T easily get in an IDE. The ease of extensibility and customization is the reason why people use these editors.
>>55270867
>stripped down
>256MB
Kids these days...
>>55270023
>Are VIM and Emacs just memes?
More like autism.
>Is navigating through code with a bunch of keystrokes actually any faster?
For 99.95% of programmers, NO. If anything it is way slower and set humanity back a decade technologically.
>>55270893
Bet you're a hunt and peck typist
>>55270023
>Do professional programmers actually use them
Everybody at my workplace uses vim
>>55270940
Sounds like bullshit senpai.
>>55270041
My professor at University uses exclusively Emacs.
He also mainly uses ANSI C, so..
>>55270706
What features are missing?
If you actually use Neovim, you'll see that it's almost indistinguishable from Vim from a user's perspective. You can likely use your unmodified vimrc with Neovim and have no problems.
Neovim only exists because the maintainer/creator of Vim is slow as fuck to accept patches and make changes.
Neovim differences: They...
- cleaned/refactored tons of the underlying C code, which was apparently god awful after all these years
- added asynchronous processes, and then Vim followed suit shortly after
- updated the default options for the 21st century
- added a built-in terminal emulator
I think Neovim is almost entirely a positive thing.
Vim is just cool and will speed up your text manipulation.
> Does it make you better at your job?
Probably not.
>>55270023
>I don't understand why someone would want to use a terminal text editor over an actual IDE designed for programming with mouse support.
Vim is an IDE, it's designed for programming and it has mouse support.
Any more misconceptions you want corrected while we're at it?
>Is navigating through code with a bunch of keystrokes actually any faster?
As long as you're pressing the right keystrokes, yes. You probably need to see an expert vim user in action to really understand. It's nothing like a traditional text editor.
I'm definitely not a vim expert but I can already effortlessly fly through my code base, open up whatever function I want, navigate through the places I've been to recently, split the window when and where I want to focus on multiple things, open whatever file I need to and do large edits in a blink of an eye.
I have full tab completion, syntax-aware highlighting, inline error highlighting, code folding, macros, undo trees and session support.
I can reboot my PC and still have the same windows open from last time, including all of my undo history, since the beginning of eternity. I'm not even aware of any other IDEs that support this.
>>55270953
this is actually pretty common man, if you aren't in an ecosystem with a tied in editor (like visual studio for .net or eclipse for java) then people use editors like vim and emacs pretty commonly.
>>55270908
If you fuck up with emacs/vim more than once a year, you're wasting time and not saving it. Instead of tryhard copying what your programmer idol does identically, find something that works for you and go with that.
I use vim mainly at work. Sometimes I use Visual Studio for that random legacy VB.NET code we have laying around.
My coworkers use atom, brackets, Sublime Text and a few others use vim.
One of my old coworkers used vim and got a job at IBM, and still uses vim there.
Emacs seems good but I can't say much about it. Vim is great though.
Yes, it's faster.
Vim has a list system that allows me to jump between arguments, open files, files containing patterns, errors or style mistakes in the current file, or cursor location history. Combined with Ctrl-P and all the actions I can do on these files, I can navigate at the speed of thought.
Vim also has smaller-scale movements that allow me to move between words, inside of pairs of characters, paragraphs, or any text object that exists or could ever exist depending only on your imagination and ability. There are also actions you can apply to these text objects. Combined with lists and macros, these actions and movements allow me to refactor code insanely fast.
These are only the basics. All of these things are defined by one or two keys, which are mnemonic patterns, allowing me to move and edit at the speed of thought.
Believe it or not, there is an advantage of using the terminal. We have a 25,000+ line codebase and a 200,000+ line legacy codebase. We've had 10,000 line regex searches on things we needed to modify before that vim would open almost immediately that most graphical editors just couldn't.
Vim is not devoid of modern features either. Using nvim, I get asyncronous actions, including autocompletion and checking and marking errors as you type, and it even has mouse compatability, even in ttys. Of course, vim has had syntax highlighting for a long, long, long time.
And the greatest thing is, unlike most IDEs, I can use all these awesome features in any programming language.
>>55270985
How much are you paid to shill like this?
>>55270067
>Emacs has a plethora of debugging features. It's practically it's own OS.
It's a great OS. It just needs someone to write a decent text editor for it.
>>55270985
>cleaned/refactored tons of the underlying C code, which was apparently god awful after all these years
Muh beautiful code!
Vim's code is giving me a PTSD because it's not like the style I learned in my bootcamp or like the style my favorite code artisan's blog is telling all code should look!
Enjoy your third party libraries and github's code of conduct!
>added asynchronous processes, and then Vim followed suit shortly after
Your asynchronous processes are not cross platform, they are buggy and they use msgpack instead of simple json!
Because neovim is too cool for plaintext!
Vim 8 will soon be here to make asynchronous work as they should and deprecate your shit.
>updated the default options for the 21st century
It's 2016, I mean come on!
>added a built-in terminal emulator
A terminal emulator running inside a neovim running inside a terminal emulator on a Mac for crying out loud!
Because neovim users and developers are too cool to use a gui!
Enjoy the bugs and the bloat the terminal emulation brings!
Please donate and will put more developer to work on neovim full time! It's a promise! (yeah right)
Don't forget to upboad on reddit and shill neovim 24/7 on stack overfow!
>>55270985
>- added a built-in terminal emulator
But why? I still don't get this
That said, I use neovim simply because my<M-x>keybindings work by default (M being meta/mod1/alt).
>>55270082
O just use fn+ up/down arrow to scroll through my code, is that what y'all are referring to or is there some way emacs does it thats legit. If im writing a script thats 1000+ lines i jusy use search
>>55270023
I use Vi whenever I'm working on a server.
Emacs whenever I'm doing development on my local machine.
They aren't memes. They are an investment, and they only pay off if you do seriously large amounts of text editing, so it's certainly not for everyone. Hence, the relative unpopularity.
>writing code in a terminal
Most Vi and Emacs users don't use it in a terminal. Also, if you're working on a server w/o X, then all you have is a terminal.
>>55270023
>Engineering Professor uses a regular editor (VS, NP++)
>Fucks up typing a line of code
>Selects the spot with the touchpad and line and fixes it
>Time 8 seconds
>CS Professor uses a terminal editor (vim, emacs)
>Fucks up typing a line of code
>Deletes the line and tries again
>Still fucks up typing that line of code
>Deletes the line and tries again
>Still fucks up typing that line of code
>Deletes the line and tries again
>Still fucks up typing that line of code
>Deletes the line and tries again
>Still fucks up typing that line of code
>Deletes the line and tries again
>Time 95 seconds
>CS Professor has spent over a decade in industry
They're worse than memes, they are cancer.
>>55271092
They already have, there's been full VI compatibility for years
>>55271159
this is what retards who are incapable of learning a god damn text editor actually think
>>55271191
No, this is what I've fucking seen.
>>55271069
How much are you paid to shit on it for no good reason?
If you legitimately think it's bad, then give some reasons instead of saying "Neovim is bad because it's bad". Asshole.
>>55271096
>>55271098
The built in terminal was added because not everyone will run Neovim from a terminal.
>>55271208
How scientific:
You see a couple instances of something retarded and make gross generalizations about tools that you admittedly do not understand.
Of course you're free to use whatever you want, but you'll never have the ease of editing that you would if you had actually bothered to use a proper text editor.
>>55270023
Everyone I know at work uses one or the other. But it makes sense for the line of work since we're mostly doing loonix sysadmin stuff
>>55271004
>type some code
>move hand to mouse
>move mouse
>move hand to keyboard
>type some more code
>realise you made a mistake earlier
>move hand to mouse
>move mouse
>move hand to keyboard
>backspacebackspacebackspacebackspace.....
>type the corrected code
>move hand to mouse
>etc.
So efficient!
>>55271240
And how is it better to have a built-in terminal inside neovim than to have a real terminal next to it?
>>55270023
Professional programmer here. I used to use VIM but switched to Emacs + Evil recently.
I know quite a few programmers who use VIM.
>>55271208
Doubt it m8, you're probably a cuck
>>55270329
Is there other text editors which do not have a search feature?
The click feature on IDE's is closer to ctags.
You click on a function call and that navigates to the declaration.
It is just an additional thing.
And yes you do have to learn all the things regarding to vim.
If you just go through vimtutor, you are only learn a fraction of what you usually do on a IDE.
Vim is just as much of a hobby as it is a tool.
When you commit to using vim, you commit to making your own editor.
When people say that it takes years to learn vim, they usually mean it takes years to make a good config.
This is also why people spend so much time to defend it as you are not just insulting vim, you are insulting their editor, the thing they have been building for years.
>>55271241
Show me one study that shows emac/vim is faster.
>How scientific:
>You see a couple instances of something retarded and make gross generalizations about tools
>>55271359
What's emac?
>>55271265
Oh god, think of the calories you're burning. You might lose your triple chin doing that!
>>55271312
I have to add to my comment that my VIM config is huge with ~30 plugins. My Emacs config even bigger.
I have not seen a professional programmer using either editor without customizing it. Their defaults are just garbage.
I can live with VIMs default settings if I have to edit a file on a server manually (i.e. when I can't use Emacs's tramp mode) but I wouldn't use it for development.
>vim
how the hell am I supposed to list the phases of the moon with that?
>>55271240
At the moment you don't even have a gui that works! Unlike Vim.
Also you don't run on all major platforms! Unlike Vim.
And a terminal emulation isn't free, it adds bloat and bugs.
Besides neovim users will never use a gui, that's not hip enough, it will not earn you reddit karma, especiall now you have true color (or whatever you call it) support in terminal so you can rice your editor and still feel superior while editing without a mouse on a terminal emulator on your macbook with nodejs and ruby stickers.
Your editor is full of empty promises.
You asked for donations to accelerate the development promising to have developers working full time. You lied.
You spreaded lies that Vim's maintainer treated you badly on the mailing lists and didn't accept your patches.
Everyone who read the mailing list archives knows what a lie this is because he only asked you to test your stupid patch and make sure that it works on every platform.
But you chose to lie and shill and spread fud because the donations from the people you scammed on reddit are too sweet to let go.
>>55271376
I prefer the lack of RSI/carpal tunnel from not using a mouse, tbqhfam.
>>55271318
Then don't use it man. More power to you.
I use Vim and I like but I'm not obsessing over my configuration and I can see why other people may prefer another editor or an IDE.
>>55271092
Just install evil-mode if you like vim keybindings so much.
Fuck off, Microsoft paid trolls.
>actual subtext of OP:
>WHY ARE YOU ALL NOT USING MICROSOFT APPROVED APPLICATIONS LIKE VISUAL STUDIO THAT IS BLOATED AS FUCK AND PROMOTES BAD PROGRAMMING HABITS ON A SHIT OS THAT HAS GARBAGE MEMORY MANAGEMENT AND BAD SECURITY AND WATCHES EVERYTHING YOU DO?
>>55270351
me too, vim has its uses
>>55271388
Use evil on emacs to create an org-mode spreadsheet to calculate the moon phases and then write a elisp program to calculate pixmaps to display the phases of the moon in the buffer.
Then release it as moon-mode and start developing planetarium-mode.
>>55270023
>>55270023
>>55270023
>>55270023
>>55270071
>>55270071
>>55270082
made this webm for an anon long ago. fuck you
>>55270023
>>55270023
>>55270023
>>55270023
>>55270071
>>55270071
>>55270082
and yes, even though it's a basic program that i'm writing on these videos it has all the features you'd expect from eclipse
>>55271096
> Enjoy your third party libraries and github's code of conduct!
I've never looked at Vim's source code and I don't want to or need to. I just heard that cleaning up the source code was one of their goals.
> Your asynchronous processes are not cross platform, they are buggy and they use msgpack instead of simple json! Because neovim is too cool for plaintext! Vim 8 will soon be here to make asynchronous work as they should and deprecate your shit.
I'm not a Neovim dev, I'm just an avid Vim user who has tried out Nvim from time to time. (IMO) the fact that Vim 8 has async is at least partially because Nvim made the push for it in the first place. Competition between the two editors is just good innovation in this way.
continued below...
>>55271487
How do you set these things up?
Is the autocomplete as slow as in the video?
continued from >>55271538
> It's 2016, I mean come on!
Do you dislike the choices they made? I think if a majority of users are using "set nocompatible" or "set mouse=a" (enabling mouse use), then it isn't a big deal to make those into defaults.
> A terminal emulator running inside a neovim running inside a terminal emulator on a Mac for crying out loud! Because neovim users and developers are too cool to use a gui! Enjoy the bugs and the bloat the terminal emulation brings!
Is it really that bloated or buggy? I don't really see the argument here. Sure, a terminal emulator is unnecessary, but having the option is nice. I see it as more of a convenience than anything.
> Please donate and will put more developer to work on neovim full time! It's a promise! (yeah right)
Don't forget to upboad on reddit and shill neovim 24/7 on stack overfow!
I don't give a fuck if you pay them or not. There's nothing wrong with donations, you shit head.
>>55271487
>>55271529
I can't watch your webMs.
>>55271389
Source for the accusations against the neovim guy? Google is not turning anything up.
>>55271389
> Besides neovim users will never use a gui, that's not hip enough, it will not earn you reddit karma, especiall now you have true color (or whatever you call it) support in terminal so you can rice your editor and still feel superior while editing without a mouse on a terminal emulator on your macbook with nodejs and ruby stickers.
It doesn't have a GUI mode because it's embeddable.
You are clearly a troll who enjoys sturring up flame wars and controversy instead of actually improving anything.
I'm a professional programmer and I use Vim, among many other tools. I don't have any data to back me up but workflows without GUIs make me feel more productive.
>>55271568
Works on Clover
i use vim inside an IDE.
there's lots of minor bugs making it not as good as the real thing.
but vims completion options are ugly and garbage
>>55271611
They break for me on Overchan and in Chrome.
>>55270023
>I don't understand why someone would want to use a terminal text editor over an actual IDE designed for programming with mouse support.
Both vim and emacs support using a mouse
>What about all the debugging and other extra features IDEs can provide that these text editors lack?
Both vim and emacs have plugins making them full fledged IDEs with
- code completion [ctags, cscope, youcompleteme]
- code navigation (go to declaration, find usages) [ctags,cscope]
- lint'ing [gcc]
- front-end for debugger of choice [gdb]
Sincerely i use Vi because on my *nix server its my favourite and the first i've knowed, i'm a programmer and i've some game servers.
>>55271661
>- code navigation (go to declaration, find usages) [ctags,cscope]
I know “go to definition” (<C-]>), but how do I find usages?
>>55271661
if you're using a mouse in vim you're doing it wrong
>>55271694
Google is your friend, but if you're too lazy to do that, then make your own keybinding to do grep
>>55271695
The point is it's possible.
I wish vim had a proper gui ;_;
>>55271695
This. I specifically disable it (neovim has it on by default for some reason) since the only thing it can possibly do is get in your way if you ever happen to click on a vim window to focus it
>>55271694
i just use *
or /identifier nnnnn
if you need to search the whole project theres ways to do it but an IDE is better for that
>>55271721
>using a window system
>>55271721
>using a mouse in your window manager
>not mapping openbox/fluxbox/whatever to match vim keybindings and using vimperator in your browser
You need to learn how to optimize your workflow, esse
>>55271573
Knock your self out
https://www.reddit.com/r/neovim/comments/4i48sx/question_about_donations_to_neovim/
https://salt.bountysource.com/teams/neovim
(warning: the next article contains heavy vim fud and neovim shilling)
http://geoff.greer.fm/2015/01/15/why-neovim-is-better-than-vim/
Here is the mailing list where neovim devs cry that the big bad bullies of vim turned down their patch and said bad words to them. Read through it to see how they are lying, the vim devs were very polite and turned down the patch on technical reasons and offering technical suggestions
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/vim_dev/-4pqDJfHCsM/LkYNCpZjQ70J
Lastly visit vim's and neovim's site and notice the difference
Vim doesn't ask for donation for development.
Neovim does and in the bounty source campaign it promised to have a developer working full time if the bounty was reached and this didn't happen
Vim doesn't have sponsors
Neovim has sponsors, look how much money they get, all for just a code cleanup without new features, without a gui and with less supported platforms?
https://neovim.io/sponsors/
Then there is the shilling and the continuous fud neovim shills throw towards vim and emacs and the empty promises about embedding. Not to mention the embedding may be a scheme to sell in the future a pro neovim enhanced ide.
The whole project is giving me a really bad vibe. I may be wrong but I don't trust them.
>>55271541
you just run the installer m8, and maybe an autocomplete plugin
mind you my webms are slow because of the framerate.
>>55271742
You have a web browser open in your TTY right now?
>>55271777
>just run the installer
Thanks for the clear instructions. I feel confident that I am able to do it now.
>>55271808
See >>55271761
If you're using a NIX on your workstation and you're using a mouse, you're doing it wrong.
>>55271761
And you need to learn that artificially forcing yourself into one workflow is worse than anything. I use pentadactyl, xmonad and vim. I use keybindings almost exclusively.
But you know, sometimes I don't. Because the keyboard isn't always faster. Maybe in 5 years you will come to the same conclusion.
>>55271813
i didn't ask for help on 4chan to do it m8, i wouldn't know how to explain it better it is literally a jar file that you just run, it's on the eclim site
>>55271817
See >>55271821
Also, you still haven't answered me. You're using a web browser in your TTY right now? Capable of displaying 4chan?
>>55271821
>Because the keyboard isn't always faster. Maybe in 5 years you will come to the same conclusion.
Maybe in 5 years you will come to the opposite conclusion.
I never stray from the home row, which is why I'm faster than you and will not get carpal tunnel syndrome like you.
>>55271835
See >>55271846
>Also, you still haven't answered me
I'm not >>55271742 , I'm >>55271761
>>55271846
>I never stray from the home row, which is why I'm faster than you and will not get carpal tunnel syndrome like you.
Okay then bud. See you in 5 years.
>>55271873
I've been doing this for 7 or 8 years now. Unlike the rest of /g/, I don't spend my time tinkering around with settings and configurations and changing my wm every other month so I can post anime wallpapers in desktop threads.
>>55271890
Neither do I. I've been using a computer every single day from the morning to the evening for the past 10 years. Most of that time was spent programming, and the rest typing.
Half that time was spent using a tiling WM on Linux. And I certainly don't need your advice, so you can fuck right off with it.
Like I said, artificially limiting yourself to the keyboard doesn't work. I want to see you struggle to open an interactive menu on a website that uses javascript.
>>55271283
It is a real terminal you dingus.
>>55270985
>I think Neovim is almost entirely a positive thing.
It is a positive thing, it brings Vim a few steps closer to Emacs.
>>55271770
This is the new open source. It's like kickstarter in many ways, people won't contribute for free any more. It's understandable, devs need to eat too, but it's very different from traditional open source culture.
>>55271718
tried gvim?
>>55270662
True. I'm under the impression that it just comes down to whatever is most comfortable to use, and I guess Emacs is the answer for Linus.
>>55271458
Org-mode is great, but it's the only non-garbage thing on emacs, which is why I simply can't bring myself to ever use it. Also, anyone who recommends evil has clearly never used vim.
>>55271924
> I've been using a computer every single day from the morning to the evening for the past 10 years. Most of that time was spent programming, and the rest typing.
Oh wow, it's fucking nothing. I've been using UNIX systems since you were in diapers.
>Like I said, artificially limiting yourself to the keyboard doesn't work
I am not limiting myself to the mouse, ya dingus.
>I want to see you struggle to open an interactive menu on a website that uses javascript.
Have you actually used a modern browser? You know that active anchor focus is emulated as mouse focus and mouse hovering these days?
>>55271777
you can use vip or vap to select a chunk of text separated by blank lines
>>55272005
this why i love vim, thanks anon, i learned something new about vim today
>>55271979
Almost all of the Evil devs and users are ex-Vim users escaping the nightmare that is VimL. Chances are, they have used Vim more than you have.
There's a rather high proportion of plugin developers as well, for example Lokaltog.
>>55271376
You are one salty motherfucker, mate
>>55272053
Is that why they claim that they support all or almost all vim features, while they actually can't even get a single thing right, such as buffers?
Macfags, not even once.
don't forget to donate to Uganda today!
>>55272079
Emacs buffers are superior to Vim buffers. I also have no idea what your complaint is. No doubt you aren't actually complaining about the buffers themselves, but how window management handles buffers by default, which is a personal preference, is in no way a defining characteristic of Vim, and is easily customizable in Emacs to your personal idiosyncratic preferences.
>>55272080
Can we donate condoms?
>>55272152
>the only way to switch windows is C-x o
>superior in any way
>>55272186
>the only way
NIL
>>55272186
So you're complaining about windows commands, not buffers. You apparently don't even know Vim well enough to know the basic terminology, and yet you complain about Evil users not knowing Vim?
And also, you're wrong, of course. Evil has commands to switch windows up/down/left/right like Vim. I don't remember if they are bound to the Vim's default keys, but that is trivial to do in your config, and Vim's default bindings are just as cancerous as Emacs's default bindings: Ctrl-W hjkl, have fun with Vim pinky.
>>55270192
>if your sysadmin and need to SSH into a machine and make some changes, what the hell else are you gonna use?
SSHFS
>>55271695
>>55271721
You guys are fucking idiots. Try resizing your split windows without a mouse. Go on and rationalize how you can more quickly and conveniently resize windows with keyboard shortcuts alone. You're wrong, because the mouse is generally quicker and more intuitive in this instance.
Just because normies use the mouse, that doesn't make it 100% inefficient in all scenarios.
The only valid reason to disable it is if you have a touch pad that you accidentally tap, or if you're trying to break a habit.
>>55270023
I am a professional programmer that uses emacs.
When I started my choices were ed, ex, vi (not vim), or uemacs. I picked uemacs. Since then i've used zwei, also an emacs, on the lispms. On DOS I used PE2, which was not an emacs, and epsilon and gnu emacs, which are. On windows i used gnu emacs and epsilon, and on the various bsd and linux machines over the years I always used either gnu emacs or xemacs.
I have had coworkers who were diehard vim users. So yeah, neither vi nor emacs are memes, or at least not entirely memes.
>>55271770
>>55271953
Still, it's all really worrying
Why should someone shill for a free and open source text editor that costs nothing?
Unless of course they expect in the future to have a profit by selling a product...
Look at neovim's page
https://neovim.io/
Look at the impressions, the first impression.
>Neovim is exactly what it claims to be. It fixes every issue I have with Vim
Who is this guy?
He is the same who wrote the article shilling neovim and spreading fud on vim.
The same guy who submitted the async patch to vim which got turned down.
Turns out this guy works for floobits.
Who is floorbits?
They __sell__ a real-time cross collaboration solution for text editors and IDEs.
Guess that's why it was so vital for them to have async support in Vim!
But then all the empty promises of neovim embedding make sense!
Maybe floorbits is hoping to __sell__ a proprietary IDE that would embed neovim and develop all new features in this IDE and sell them for a __profit__.
But surely this wouldn't work if Vim is free, active and maintained? Of course not!
Therefore they proceed to phase two of the operation: Destroy Vim!
Bram is the BDFL of Vim and he developed a kick ass text editor without asking anything in return.
Now neovim shills are attaching Vim and trying to prove that Bram is a bad person and developer and that Vim is a project that is in shambles. I believe their goal is to destroy Vim, make Bram abandon the development and subvert Vim development with neovim. Once they manage to do that they develop all new features exclusively for their proprietary neovim++.
By making neovim as convoluted as possible by depending on as many libraries (libuv, msgpack, lua, terminal embedding) they make harder to fork neovim into a free project again and they always can rely on shills to shutdown any fork before it gains traction.
Of course based Bram won't have that and soon with Vim 8 he will push back their shit!
>>55272377
Heh.
```
" easier resizing
nnoremap <up> :resize +5<CR>
nnoremap <down> :resize -5<CR>
nnoremap <left> :vert resize -5<CR>
nnoremap <right> :vert resize +5<CR>
```
I've been using vim and now neovim professionally as a sysadmin and developer for 8 years or so. I've also taught multiple vim classes in different companies and at universities.
There's plenty of interest in vim.
>>55272396
Oh the HORROR. Someone might be trying to popularize something they made or are working on and even make a living out of it. Fucking ASTOUNDING. Truly SHOCKING. People have really NO SHAME.
NOW THIS IS REAL SHILLING!
>>55271979
I used to use that snippet. Adjusting the size by 5 characters is not precise enough, it's too slow when you +/- by 1, and the directions for resizing via arrow keys are confusing (left/down for shrink; right/up for grow).
The mouse is undeniably better for window resizing.
>>55271487
>overload list moves code to fuck you up good
>>55272152
Call me when you have bufdo or the ability to change buffer via buffer number, retard.
>>55272377
>Try resizing your split windows without a mouse.
ctrl + w + =
+50
>>55270023
>500x501
>>55272446
Software is supposed to be free you globalist tool.
>>55272377
This. Same with selecting a specific character on a specific lines across open windows in a semi-convoluted layout. Clicking will be 100x faster and more accurate.
>>55272396
It's still true that there are many issues with vim, especially with default settings (thankfully /etc/share/vimrc is usually pretty good - but you still have to manually add a keybind to toggle hls every time for instance).
>>55272484
You know, you can just resize windows with a mouse and then just lie in reddit so you don't loose karma
>>55270192
How about you use something like TRAMP in Emacs?
>>55272495
What strain of brain rot do you have? What the fuck does globalism have to do with anything here? How in all the levels of FUCK can you think that someone wanting to be rewarded for his work is bad?
Fucking communists man, fucking communists.
>>55272496
Vim has a package "EasyMotion" and Emacs has a package "Avy" which allows you to easily jump to arbitrary lines/words/characters in very few keystrokes.
>>55271265
No, you autistic sperglord! No! Stop it now!
You use the scroll wheel when browsing code and not typing. If you want to select something to show to a coworker, doing it with a mouse is much easier than going "takatakatakataka" until you find the piece of code to select.
>>55272446
Paid shill confirmed.
>>55272526
There's nothing wrong with being rewarded for writing free software.
>>55272496
>Same with selecting a specific character on a specific lines across open windows
I see you've never used vim.
>>55272536
Try using them before advocating them in this setting.
>>55272536
Sorry, I meant Vim has a PLUGIN*
I hate the terminology differences between Emacs and Vim:
Vim: Yank means Copy
Emacs: Yank means Paste
>>55272469
VIM can't into numeric arguments?
In gnu Emacs I can do something like M-5 C-x }.
>>55272543
Agreed.
>>55272541
Yeah, I'm very wall paid for designing, creating, and maintaining software.
>>55272572
Prefix the command with a number in vim. Same shit but better because no need to use fucked up combos for values past 9. That's not the point he's making though.
>>55272563
I have used them. I wasn't saying they were better or worse than the mouse.
Personally I find all the highlighted letters and shit to be too distracting and noisy, so I don't use it, but I can see why tons of people find it useful.
>>55272526
>communists
Sure, whatever you say globalist, the merchant banks and the hedge funds are our friends
>>55271983
>using only the keyboard to browse the web
A U T I S M O
>>55272597
In Emacs you can do something like M-1 M-5, and there's also C-u, so that's not a problem.
>>55272607
>posting fucking farrage
>implying i was against the brexit
I guess you are just one of these people that like to jump around topics instead of coming to a conclusion on the one being discussed.
Good luck with that in your life.
>>55272414
>needing multiple classes to TEACH someone how to use a text editor
You're what's wrong with the world.
>>55272647
Are you this fucking retarded?
Really?
Is it really inconceivable for you that some tools are complex and provide a lot of benefits but require learning and experience to utilize fully?
For fucks sake, Eclipse is made with retards that cannot comprehend the idea of a Makefile and can BARELY use the "compile" button that does everything for you, but even still it is a huge tool with a lot of functionality that takes years to learn.
Go fuck yourself.
>>55270067
NeoVim succeeds at being able to plug into IDEs (atom for example) yet it is accessable from the terminal, making use during ssh with your own configs practical. I like Vim, but NeoVim just has the modern features that I need.
>>55272481
Both of those are useless in Emacs since you are working on thousands of buffers for dozens of projects, unlike where you'd only have a dozen buffers open in Vim.
For changing buffers, it's much more efficient to use fuzzy matching like ctrl-p than trying to remember the buffer you want is 1745. If you really wanted that for some reason, you could add it with Emacs Lisp.
For bufdo, you can just use Emacs Lisp to iterate over the buffers you want, even doing advanced filtering, such as "do A in this buffer if it contains a function definition matching .*foobar.*, else do B". It makes bufdo seem primitive in comparison.
>>55272690
What kind of a retard must you be to embed a text editor inside a text editor running inside a web browser?
Go away neovim shill, you have been exposed
>>55272701
Yeah, I've always envied emacs having a propper scripting language, VimL is shit.
But fortunately I'm not a vim developer, I'm a vim user, and nowadays a neovim user. I car about usability.
bufdo is cool and all, but I find a use for it maybe once a month. What makes my life comfy is not things like bufdo but the vim grammar and a combination of a decent autocompletion, food fuzzy searching of files/buffers and easy build running. That is really all you need.
>>55272620
>at least 2 extra keystrokes
>not a problem
cuck
>>55272727
>implying modularity and agility of software to use it wherever you want it is a bad thing
Some of you people, seriously. When i hear nonsense like that I'm 100% sure you have exactly 0 experience in programming.
>>55272682
>how do I X?
>simple, just -CaX^3
SO INTUITIVE BRO
Face it dipshit, you're modding an old text editor into a weird TUI and trying to make it into an IDE. You'll spend days, weeks, months to do this, and if only one thing breaks, your workflow is ruined.
You're shit. Your work is shit. Only your autism requires you to diddle with vim to the point where you come off as a 1337 hacker to your dipshit friends. Use vim for editing conf files remotely and be done with it. Stop using it for something it's not.
>>55272701
My fucking sides! Macfags truly are retarded!
>>55272771
Yeah, a lot of things in Vim/Neovim are not intuitive and require learning.
So? It's still comfy as fuck for many people. I really don't get why it makes you so angry. It makes me happy that i'm comfortable when I code.
i and 90% of my coworkers use vim and we're all 'profeshunals'. the rest use shitmacs
>>55272768
>Implying embedding text editors inside text editors inside web browsers is a good thing and not just memetic wanking
>>55270023
>Do professional programmers actually use them or is it just wannabe coders who think writing code in a terminal makes them feel like a "pro hacker"?
Yes. Lot's of people use them at our company.
>Do professional programmers actually use them?
Yes
>Is navigating through code with a bunch of keystrokes actually any faster?
Yes
>What about all the debugging and other extra features IDEs can provide that these text editors lack?
Vim has all of that.
>>55272771
>reading comprehension
Nobody claimed vim is intuitive. The point is it's efficient to use once you learn to use it. When I'm going to be using software for years or even decades, the qualities "intuitive" and "beginner-friendly" have very low value.
>>55272771
vim:
>how do I X?
>simple, just -CaX^3
any other dumbshit EYEDEE-EELMAO:
>how do I X?
>you can't
>>55272832
I don't dispute that putting stuff through multiple layers of frameworks to finally use it is silly at times, but it all depends on the use case.
I like my editor in a terminal. Someone else might want a gui, someone else prefers to run in a web browser since it makes work with JS easy, whatever makes them happy.
If a piece of software gives you more possibilities instead of less, I would consider that a good thing.
How people use it is really up to them. I'll be back here with my tiling window manager and terminals doing a damn good job as a sysadmin and developer.
>>55272737
Emacs philosophy is that because everyone's needs are different, your tool should make it easy for you to build into what you want.
There's a saying, "Give me six minutes to chop down a tree, and I will spend the first four sharpening my axe."
If you need to edit text professionally, it's in your best interest to build your own toolset because that investment will pay off in the long run.
Even if you spend ten times the time writing out a plugin/function to do something, you only need to do that thing ten times for it to start paying off, and text editing tends to be VERY repetitive.
>>55272743
>extra two keystrokes
>vimfags can't comprehend pressing 2 keys at once
M-1 means meta 1 (that's alt + 1 or escape 1 if you are on some shitty terminal or something).
It's still less keystrokes, because I don't have to think what mode I'm in, press escape if I'm in insert mode, and then type my command.
>>55272905
>"Give me six minutes to chop down a tree, and I will spend the first four sharpening my axe."
I like that a lot.
>text editing tends to be VERY repetitive.
>build your own toolset because that investment will pay off in the long run
Absolutely agreed. I find it so funny that people who probably have close to no or actually no experience in the industry will berate people who do on how they spend a lot of time learning and customizing their tools.
For fucks sake, it's not masturbation, it's both learning your main tool and making it better in the long run.
This kinda reminds me of this Youtube channel of a guy who does woordowking and makes most of his tools himself. Yeah, it takes time and work, but in the end it has it's own benefits.
>>55272955
Not sure if clinically retarded or merely lobotomized.
>>55272955
>>vimfags can't comprehend pressing 2 keys at once
Why do you have to be so insulting for no good reason and about such a trivial topic?
There's plenty of chords in vim, but for the health of my fingers - and especially pinky - I prefer to avoid them.
But to each their own. Emacs is a fine, fine editor.
this just in: mg is better than emacs
default behavior isn't as obnoxious
>>55273245
>M-- M-c
>doesn't work
>even bash is more compatible with Emacs keybindings than mg
>>55273309
still better because it's not trying to force indentations on me
>>55273363
Ah, another special snowflake who indents their code using the Fibonacci sequence.
>>55273363
>>55273472
Arguing over styles of indentation is the very definition of bike shedding.
>There are so many interesting problems to solve in computing
>lets ignore all of those and argue about tabs and spaces
Just sad.
The correct answer to this issue is "I don't give a fuck as long as the people I work with pick one way and STICK WITH IT".
>>55273530
No, the correct answer is spaces. Anyone who disagrees is literally anti-progress.
>>55273576
Tabs can be resized at any time to fit the user.
Spaces can't.
You shouldn't tab with spaces. You space with spaces, you tab with tabs.
>>55270023
Then you don't know how to use Vim because it's objectively better than a lot of other text editors.
>>55273576
Said the person with nothing else to contribute to the conversation hence proving my point about bike shedding.
>>55273592
:retab
get fucked
>>55273592
Says the person who uses a text editor that can't reindent spaces.
Says the person who doesn't know that tabs are used for making TABles, not indenting code.
On the topic of indent styles:
>>55273530 is right. Consistency is the main thing.
Your preference only matters when it's your code, because you're making the big decision at that point.
>>55270023
VIM is for cucks.
Over 40 % of people on Linux in most questionnaires use Vim. Nano and Emacs are there too, and then there's usually Gedit (after Vim) and GVim. So yes, unix devs (macs too) use them a lot.
I only learned how to use vim because some machines only have vi as a editor
>>55273736
>Says the person who doesn't know that tabs are used for making TABles, not indenting code.
It was used for indentation since the days of typewriters.
>>55273530
the correct answer for software is "don't get in my way"
>>55273829
The tab KEY was used for indentation on typewriters. Typewriters don't insert a tab CHARACTER.
>The word tab derives from the word tabulate, which means "to arrange data in a tabular, or table, form." When a person wanted to type a table (of numbers or text) on a typewriter, there was a lot of time-consuming and repetitive use of the space bar and backspace key.
>>55273877
Correct.
Then what's the point of indenting with spaces? Why force your indentation style? What do you get with such behavior?
>>55271159
>me
>use a regular text editor or ide
>type a line but mess up
>ctrl+left arrow to jump back word for word to the word I messed up (assuming I'm still in that line when I noticed the error)
>ctrl+delete to delete the whole word
>retype it
Overall time: 3 seconds because my hands never leave the keyboard
>>55273927
Because the tab character is a control character whose behavior is not well defined. It's like saying why not use the ASCII vertical tab character instead of newline for separating functions, carriage return for separating classes, and record separators for separating sections of code. You're welcome to do that with your own code, but not in public code.
>>55273929
We're all very impressed.
>>55274047
Yeah amazing, he didn't even have to input some esoteric key combination to make it happen! Crazy huh?
\r or \r\n, or just \n? This is not well defined.
\t is. It's a tab.
>You're welcome to do that with your own code, but not in public code.
Oh look, the Linux source code doesn't use spaces! Wow!
Fuck off.
>>55274029
>Formatting your code the same way grandma formats her MS Word documents
O I B laffin
>>55270023
>Are VIM and Emacs just memes?
"Everything can be a meme" is a meme
Do professional programmers actually use them or is it just wannabe coders who think writing code in a terminal makes them feel like a "pro hacker"?
Yep we do use, and no that's faggotry that would get you fired.
>I don't understand why someone would want to use a terminal text editor over an actual IDE designed for programming with mouse support.
Extendability, portability (able to use it on shell or gui) and fastness (custom keybinding workflow + minimal resource usage)
>Do professional programmers actually use them?
Yes
>Is navigating through code with a bunch of keystrokes actually any faster?
Yes. Try Ctrl+P on Sublime/Atom or Ctrl + RePag/ Ctrl + AvPag imagine doing this with custom functionality that you can programmatically define
>What about all the debugging and other extra features IDEs can provide that these text editors lack?
http://vimawesome.com/
https://github.com/emacs-tw/awesome-emacs
>>55274098
>\r or \r\n, or just \n? This is not well defined.
Yes it is. Lines are terminated, not separated, with \n in POSIX. Deprecated OSes need not apply.
>>55270539
>enterprise
>nano on machines
not even vim - it's all vi there, baby
>use gvim with default [spoiler]torte[/spoiler] color scheme and maybe 2 plugins tops
Am I a monster?
>>55270539
If you want to delete everything from the cursor to the end of a line, use dd or D; to join the line the cursor is on with the one below it, use J
>>55273720
Doesn't work unless you know both the source and target setup. Have fun figuring them out for every single file. Also I sure hope the project you're working on has a standard that agrees with your choice, otherwise you better unretab before submitting. And don't forget any file.
>>55274184
Oh the irony.
>>55273929
>me
>use vi
>do the same in like 6 keystrokes
`<ESC> bbbcw`
>>55275100
You still have to navigate to the line in question.
Vim is a cancer for today developers who try to learn it because old retards said it's the best. Don't waste your precious time with this kind of shits.
>access your server remotely through ssh
>you need to write a script to your server, but you only have a terminal display for your ssh
>"Oh fuck I guess I can't write a text file without gui"
Or use vim, comes standard on every distro of linux. It has a curve, but in less than a week you can know how to use it. Read the /g/ wiki, if you're any kind of real programmer you would have hit related situation above, or are going to.
>>55275121
No I don't, because they didn't in their original example.
How come never talks about sublime text with vim keybindings? That's what I use and it's the best of both worlds unless you have a really specific setup requirement
>>55275640
>>>/tumblr/
>>55270023
posting in large bread....
>use vim
>use vim at work
>work at microshit
as for questions...
Is navigating through code with a bunch of keystrokes actually any faster?
>yes. especially if you have folding in vim on all your functions and classes. moving to line numbers is a single command, not having to scroll.
>sometimes it would be nice to have an overview thing like sublime has though.
What about all the debugging and other extra features IDEs can provide that these text editors lack?
>you add them. i use youcompleteme for auto completion, syntastic for error checking, nerd tree for directory tree viewing, vim-polyglot for better syntax highlighting.
>>55275781
why don't you use sublime with vim keybindings? has everything you need and the packages are built better.
>>55275815
because i use linux as my host os, and do everything in the terminal. its nice to be able to :sh run commands, pipe to xclip, exit, then ctrl+shift+v
>>55274982
>know both the source and the target setup
Alright, retab is bad for so many reasons, but this is just flat out wrong/stupid.
>>55274068
You're proud of what, having different keybindings? Why actively attack something I use?
I don't care what you use. Do you literally have autism? Are you unable to deal with differences?
>>55274982
>Doesn't work unless you know both the source and target setup.
>his text editor doesn't understand the semantics of his programming language
Forget languages like C or Java, you can even reindent whitespace dependent languages like Python and Haskell without issues.
>>55270023
Since i've only used IDEs, do you use the console to compile the files if you use vim or other text editors?
>>55277422
You can automate the process using Makefiles, of course.
Some text editors like emacs even offer you the option of binding a command that executes make.
For example, in emacs I bound that to C-c C-c.
