/bsd/ Thread
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/bsd/ Thread - No license fighting edition.
General Thread
Discuss FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, DragonFlyBSD, FreeNAS...
IRC -- #baot @ irc.rizon.net
News: http://dragonflydigest.com - http://undeadly.org - http://freebsdnews.com
Ask questions, get answers.
Also, please don't shitpost about GPL vs BSD. You guys have your own thread, let us have ours.
Ok so I've been looking a bit at FreeBSD. I'm a loonix user bit I can't really see what would make BSD better except that it would make me even less of a normie.
Can someone give me some quick pros/cons and please, not just some biased shitpost.
>>54990641
BSD as a whole is much closer to UNIX and each different one like open/free/net have their own unique strengths. FreeBSD has jails and largest community and zfs. NetBSD has an excellent kernel and OpenBSD strives for code correctness and being secure out of the box with an excellent firewall.
>>54990574
OpenBSD is top comfy. Using it on my old Dell laptop since 4 years with no problem at all.
Will rape this blowfish tho.
>>54990695
So if I want to run it on a desktop and just write some small programs for fun and just "try it out", what's my pick?
Maybe I could try it out on my Raspberry Pi.
>>54990806
I believe FreeBSD has the best support for raspberry pi.
https://wiki.freebsd.org/FreeBSD/arm/Raspberry%20Pi
BSDs generally don't like VMs, but I have heard that you can get FreeBSD to work properly in virtualbox with a bit of tweaking.
>>54990918
Thanks for the link.
Also I never really run VMs, I just set up a partition and boot stuff whenever I want to try something.
>>54990806
Programming is hella fun on BSDs.
Switched from FreeBSD to OpenBSD a few months ago.
I love C
>>54991171
Same here, love both C and Perl
>>54990806
Adopting OpenBSD as your main development platform is a wise choice for multiple reasons, especially because your application simply won't be allowed to run by the OS if it isn't minimally properly written. It's a way to improve security without taking any extra steps.
i don't use openbsd but i subscribe to the misc mailing list because i enjoy reading the occasional theo assblasting
>>54991604
I like OpenBSD and with the developers, especially Theo, it's never a dull moment.
>>54991576
Yeah, it's fun.
I'm glad everything comes with the system for programming, too.
Some day I want to learn Lisp and Fortran, though.
>>54991576
Isn't OpenBSD the only one that they develop on OpenBSD and use it as their daily OS while the rest use a Mac?
>please don't post about BSD vs GPL
Considering it's what you exist to argue about, why not? Lose the argument yesterday? Stay contrarian, hippies.
>>54991870
Will you ever fuck off?
>>54991870
It says don't shitpost, which is exactly what you're doing. Fuck off.
>>54990641
>it would make me less of a normie
This is basically the reason why losers use BSD. "Muh secret club"
Not about the computer anymore, just an even more obscure piece of shit over Linux, so you can pretend to be better than everyone else.
>>54991937
I like how you're so desperate when no one replies to you that you just attack random people.
For someone who thinks he's doing /g/ a service, you sure are shitting everything up.
>>54991850
That's a /g/ meme, I have never seen McKusick go near a Mac.
>>54991928
>>54991936
Same to you and this thread on the board everyday. Nobody cares about BSD.
>>54991962
You seem to care enough to keep posting here everyday, fuck off with your retarded cognitive dissonance already.
>>54991947
He's just a bitter faggot who's sore from Linux getting attacked by Mac and Windows faggots so he has to shitpost to feel better about himself.
>>54991870
Because it's a red herring you created since you lack any technical arguments against BSD. Now stop whining and go away.
>>54991850
yes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlgdvSNpi60
>>54991983
There's something very admirable about Theo's passion for this project.
>>54991947
I'd pay money to get everyone in a public area to put the BSD logo on their laptop and start talking about BSD. The reaction from a"real" BSD user (pretended to use it first) walking through the door would be priceless. Would flip contrarian shit and draw the plan9 bunny on his face and pretend to use that next. Just kidding bsdlords don't go outside enough for this to happen.
>>54991983
Also, holy shit, look in the comments, I think one of our friends is there.
>>54991962
>Nobody cares about BSD.
>Windows networking stack is from BSD
>OS X is based off BSD
lol. Also:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/09/microsoft_freebsd/
>>54991870
Nobody cares about that, it's a non-issue.
>>54992002
What the fuck are you even talking about?
I agree with that anon in the last thread, you really are schizophrenic.
>>54992015
Don't forget the OpenBSD foundation donors last year.
>>54992015
>OS X is based off BSD
STOP SPREADING THAT MYTH!
Only part of the userland and libc use some code from FreeBSD.
>>54992029
He thinks mods won't ban him for shitposting so he's shitposting as hard as possible.
>>54992064
To be fair, mods really don't give a FUCK about this board.
>>54992073
Nobody ever reports shitposts. You have to report it for mods and janitors to become aware of it.
>>54992169
That's what I've been doing from the start. I can count the times it actually made a difference on one hand.
>>54992059
OS X is based off Darwin which is based off NextStep which is based off of BSD, so yeah. I never specified FreeBSD, I said BSD which it's based off of.
Here's a nice flow chart for the history of UNIX and BSD, it's pretty interesting.
>>54992451
OpenSolaris is the only Unix from the right side to ever go open source. All of those OSes that will probably never be opened up.
>tfw your software license lets people make money
>>54991947
>I like how you're so desperate when no one replies to you that you just attack random people
so you go and reply to him.
STOP
it's like you actually want to have him stick around
>>54992599
even if we didn't he'd just reply non-stop until someone bites
>>54992554
You can still make money off GPL anon
>>54992791
>>54992834
I'm not sure if you're ignorant or trolling, but you can definitely make money off GPL software. GPL is all about having the source code public, not about free as in price. Richard Stallman has never once said he wants people to never make money off GPL software.
>>54992895
any good stallman approved examples of making money via gpl?
>>54992928
Red Hat is the biggest example.
>>54992928
Oracle anything
Statists and trolls like >>54982389 in the last BSD general were shitting on the BSD license because they said large companies would just take the code and never contribute anything back.
Take a look at this:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/09/microsoft_freebsd/
>Redmond will support it [FreeBSD] inside Azure and send code back to the FreeBSD Foundation
What do they have to say now?
>>54993334
Nothing because he's not looking for an intelligent argument. You do know that, right?
>>54993374
I know, that's why I said "troll". I hope we all can ignore him when he inevitably comes to troll this thread. Though his patterns are repetitive and obvious, so he isn't hard to spot.
But I still think it's helpful to put-forth examples of companies contributing back to open-source projects, because we need some resistance against the "people/companies will NEVER do anything that doesn't benefit only them" narrative.
>>54993374
This. Just ignore the one GPL shitposter
>>54992018
Agreed
I still tinker with HardenedBSD a bit which is basically just FreeBSD but I love Portage so much more than Ports. Do you guys think BSD will ever support something similar to Portage?
>>54991962
openbsd's firewall use on osx
openbsd's ssh used everywhere
openbsd libressl will probably be used everywhere
>>54995465
LibreSSL is included with OS X now.
openbsd is great but I only use it as a firewall.
I can't even suspend/resume without it crashing.
No bluetooth, wireless is barely there.
They make great software but it is unusuble outside of pushing packets and serving stuff.
I did get my minidlna server up on my obsd machine and it stores all my anime stuff for playback on my ps4 on tv.
Overall a good OS but missing things most people need/want.
Also I was a bit disappointed by lack of c++ compiler on there. no clang++ with c++14 support. They use a custom gcc which is old as shit.
>>54990918
I tried FreeBSD in virtualbox, it had worked native for me.
>>54995465
openbsd's sudo on every lincuck box
In 2001, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer referred to Linux as "a cancer that attaches itself in an intellectual property sense to everything it touches".[133][134] In response to Microsoft's attacks on the GPL, several prominent Free Software developers and advocates released a joint statement supporting the license.[135] Microsoft has released Microsoft Windows Services for UNIX, which contains GPL-licensed code. In July 2009, Microsoft itself released a body of around 20,000 lines of Linux driver code under the GPL.[136] The Hyper-V code that is part of the submitted code used open-source components licensed under the GPL and was originally statically linked to proprietary binary parts, the latter being inadmissible in GPL-licensed software.[137]
>>54991850
>isn't this software the only the devs dogfood while the rest use hardware
>>54995395
Implement it, faggot.
>>54995465
>>54998841
OpenBSD's arc4random is literally everywhere.
>>54999581
Plus Linux is full of wireless drivers taken from OpenBSD.
>>54999080
Next time you copy and paste from Wikipedia, can you not make it extremely obvious.
>>54998841
Haha and OpenBSD doesn't use sudo anymore
>>54999809
doas is much easier to setup tbqh famalam, it just werx.
>>54997323
Awesome
>>54999809
Sure they do. It's just not in the base install. It's in the packages if you want it or happen to need one of its (many) features.
>>54999856
>>55001528
the only purpose of doas is to elevate privileges, which is all people ever do with sudo despite the fact it can do more, so they replaced it
i think its really great
>>54992015
>Windows networking stack is from BSD
Not since Windows 8. Windows 8 has a new networking stack. It is nonetheless interesting that Microsoft went with the BSD stack for Windows NT, given that they had only a few years earlier been the largest Unix vendor (Microsoft Xenix).
>OS X is based off BSD
Not really. OS X is derived from NeXTStep, which had a Mach kernel with a BSD userspace. OS X retains this structure (actually I'm not sure if the BSD stuff has been updated since the NeXT days, it's *really* ancient.
>>55001619
The only thing I still use sudo for is -A to ask for GUI passwords with zenity. Can't see any way to pull that off with doas.
I seem to remember reading that some graphics card brand doesn't have drivers in openBSD, can anyone clarify this?
>>55002962
Nvidia are dicks about open source and they basically give jackshit back to the community so no one bothers to try and support their hardware. There's only one open source project(nouveau) and it has very limited capabilities and pretty much doesn't work on anything except Linux as far as I'm aware. If you use FreeBSD you can use proprietary drivers which work about as well as their Windows or Linux counterparts.
>>55001647
ssso... isn't most of the net based on 'BSD Sockets' anyway?
What kernel would be best for diving into the source code of, and learning about how that shit works? I'm a pretty technical user, so I would have no problem doing this.
I want to say OpenBSD because it's probably simple and clean. But FreeBSD's probably nice too, not to mention someone published a book on the architecture of FreeBSD's kernel.
>>55003287
OpenBSD. It's very clean, and quite tight compared to FreeBSD and linux, it's ca 80kloc lIRC.
>>54990574
when i start an x session how to i switch back to console. i try alt+f* and ctrl+alt+f* but the first doesnt work and the second just makes the monitor turn blank. I'm on freebsd 10.3
>>55003347
Holy shit, only 80K? That's insanely small.
>>55003253
The api, not the code. Windows NT used the actual BSD TCP/IP code up through Vista.
Anyone know what the hell NetBSD is good for?
My understanding is that FreeBSD is the general-purpose BSD, with good performance and features. OpenBSD is good at security and keeping shit simple, so security and features are less important.
But what about NetBSD? Does it have any unique features to make it worth using outside of being portable? Does anyone outside of very specific embedded needs have any need for NetBSD?
And does NetBSD's portability even really matter THAT much, or is it just a myth?
>>55003026
Alright, thanks for the info. I was also wondering what the various BSDs are like for development and the related tools, compared to Linux?
>>55003483
Well gdb, gcc, llvm/clang, emacs, vim, etc all work on the BSDs pretty much as far as I'm aware. The BSDs have their own libc that is not glibc so some stuff might be a bit different, I'm not actually sure how different. OpenBSD uses a fork of GCC4.X(or 2.X on really limited platforms) because they have mitigations incorporated into it that the GNU project refused to incorporate upstream.
>>55003806
Isn't the GNU Compiler Collection shitting itself because Clang is becoming a thing?
Is it even possible to maintain GCC's delapadated code anymore? Is there even many people left that know how to make sense of it and maintain it?
This isn't a troll.
Can FreeBSD be riced?
>>55003867
Riced in what sense? Can you be more specific.
Also, it technically can. Its Ports collection of software is roughly analogous to Gentoo's portage (even though Ports is Makefile based, and Portage is Python-based). And as such, you'll be able to tweak the compile-time flags just like you can with Gentoo/Portage.
-funrool-loops all day every day.
>>55003833
The GNU project made GCC like that on purpose to make it a pain in the ass to incorporate into other software. GCC is supposed to be close to indecipherable so that proprietary software can never interface with it and unfortunately as a consequence of that it also makes it impossible for permissively licensed software to interface with it. It's just how it is.
>>55003867
FreeBSD can generally run the same software as GNU/Linux so usually yes. Depends on what you mean by ricing because some stuff like GNOME3 has a dependency on linux specific software(like systemd), if you just mean a tiling window manager then that should be easily possible.
>>55003867
>>55003916
Also forgot to mention that for some software, you can configure what are called "Knobs", which is analogous to Portage's USE flags. So you can strip-out crap you don't need just like in Portage.
>>55003367
NetBSD supposedly has a really nice kernel too. Not sure on the loc though I assume it's also pretty tiny.
>>55003426
It really is super portable from what I understand. I saw a good post explaining the advantages of NetBSD the other day but I didn't cap it and can't quite remember. OpenBSD was also originally forked from NetBSD, which I see as a kind of endorsement that it provided a base they liked.
>>55003918
>>55003933
I like to be able to strip-out crap I don't need !
Well if i'm able to use i3wm i'll probably try it
>>55003918
>GCC
What the fuck, mate? Is that actually true? That's so retarded if it is.
So GCC was engineered to be a cryptic, monolothic piece of shit that could never be sanely adapted into other works?
Citation?
>>55003956
I'm pretty sure there was more discussion along these lines prior to this:
https://lwn.net/Articles/629259/
>>55003426
It's very good general-purpose too, + rump kernel is very useful to open source progress
>>55004069
>RUMP kernel
That reminds me... what ever happened to Lua in the kernel? What DID that actually work, what was it for, and why was it a good idea?
>>55004129
It did work, http://www.netbsd.org/gallery/presentations/mbalmer/fosdem2012/kernel_mode_lua.pdf see Use Cases.
>>55003833
GCC is literal garbage. It's slow and buggy.
>>55003833
>Isn't the GNU Compiler Collection shitting itself because Clang is becoming a thing?
Stallman hates it because it's competition. He didn't phrase it that way but everyone knows that he doesn't like the idea of it being dethroned.
