Why is web development so looked down upon as a career compared to other programming fields?
>>54816301
>he actually believes /g/ opinions are widely held in the real world
It's not. /g/ is not a representation of the real world.
It's shit. Any faggot with a bootcamp participation certificate can call themselves a web dev.
>>54816389
So you hate it because it's so easy to become one?
>>54816428
Hate it because fuck javascript cancer.
It's a lot easier than "real" programming, but then again if I can get paid roughly the same for doing an easier job I call that a win for web dev.
>>54816458
How is it cancer?
>>54816301
well, what exactly is web developing?
is it just writing HTML?
doesn't it require knowledge of:
server side protocol
database query
database structuring
networking communications control
user / other interface design
and don't these require more than just a rudimentary understanding of HTML and some javascript, or knowledge of how to operate these programs that make website through another layer of interface?
actual web developing requires some extensive knowledge, and these 8 week courses don't really provide those skills
>>54816489
These days when people say "web developer" they are usually referring to a full stack developer (so HTML, CSS + frameworks, JS + frameworks, at least one server-side language + frameworks, SQL) AND they tend to expect you to have some basic dev ops/server admin/Linux knowledge.
Unless they specify front end developer, which is just basically the UI design of the page (so HTML, CSS, some JS, maybe some graphic designer skills for logos and sht).
>>54816475
Have no more replies for you.
js could die tomorrow and I wouldn't miss it one bit.
>>54816301
Front end development is looked down upon. At least when going into deeper web dev you at least need to have some idea of basic programming.
>>54816524
You don't know what you're talking about.
>>54816463
Just like everywhere you have easy stuff and difficult stuff.
If you make a static Website with HTML + CSS, yes that's not that difficult.
If you have a lot of servers, a database in the background and a lot of I/O going on it's not that easy anymore. If you think you can write a management dashboard within two days, you are wrong.
Also you have to know a lot of technologies for Web Stuff and always stay up to date. As Java develloper you can get away with knowing Java and maybe a few Java frameworks.
>>54816475
If programmign languages were weapons, JS would be dynamite:
It is easy to do powerfull stuff very fast, but you can also fuck things up veeery badly if you don't know how to handle it.
You can write good code and terrifying bad code with JS. This is not a problem if you know what you are doing (and what you should avoid), but if you maintaing other people's code, you 'll see some crazy shit..
>>54816522
If someone is writing mainly stuff in frameworks like Angular and works with a data backend provides and also does not bother so much with design and css, it that a frontend dev or what?
>>54816589
>You can write good code and terrifying bad code with JS. This is not a problem if you know what you are doing
Some source for learning how to write a good JS code?
>>54816619
>http://bdcampbell.net/javascript/book/javascript_the_good_parts.pdf
>>54816619
1. Don't do OOP shit
2. Do FP shit
You're welcome
>>54816640
Meme?
>>54816636
Ok, I guess everyone mentions only this book. Time to get into it more.
>>54816589
By "easy" I mean easy compared to the people who are programming operating systems in C or massive professional software products like Adobe stuff.
Web dev is kinda like the biology of scripting/programming, there's a ton of stuff to memorize and glue together as needed, but you don't need that 300k starting math PhD (and I'm in web dev myself, I'm not shitting on it).
>>54816602
Well I hardly ever see job ads for strictly front end, usually these days people just expect web devs to be at least competent with the full stack (doesn't really make sense to pay a whole seperate person just to handle HTML and CSS). But technically, if someone is STRICTLY a front end web dev they would only deal with the UI design, the appearance, layout and graphic design for the web page. They wouldn't be touching any server-side languages or connecting with the backend at all.
>>54816522
definitive
only front-end webdev is mocked, not all of it
>>54816544
if he has that opinion, how does he "not know what he's talking about"? i share the opinion and i couldn't tell you why either. it's not that i hate javascript, it's just that don't care for it very much and i feel like if it didn't exist the world of programming would be a tidier place to work in. again, a feeling. not a fact.
>>54816673
I'll be dealing with Angular in my internship so I have no idea what is that supposed to be called. And like, I'll have to actually develop a client side of the app, not design stuff.
>>54816660
No memes, sir.
>>54816688
This, front end dev gets mocked on /g/ because it's not actually programming, just designing a page layout with a scripting syntax. (And of course everyone on /g/ is making 500k developing algorithms at NASA with their math PhD).
In reality, if you can find a decent paying job doing front end stuff, it can be pretty comfy, as long as you like easy work and aren't the kind of person who want's to be intellectually stimulated.
>tfw couldn't find a job doing any other thing in tech
>>54816673
>Well I hardly ever see job ads for strictly front end
I think you could get away with HTML, CSS and JS if you are really good with graphics and design.
Depdends on the team, though.
>>54816773
Frontend =/= web design. Web designers today have to know HTML/CSS and some JS ffs.
>>54816524
>Javascript is cancer.
>Can't justify why lol.
Web development specifically implies interaction with humans. You are interacting with them through your product as a medium.
This is obviously not going to appeal to the average /g/tard who circlejerks over the best fizzbuzz implementation.
>>54816839
Yea I think it's more likely to find that job at larger corporations who have money to throw at "UI designer" specialists and stuff. Smaller companies with less overhead will just want full stack guys who can do it all.
>>54816890
HTML, CSS, and (most) JS is literally front end though.
If anything I would say the term "web designer" does imply front end, whereas "web developer" implies back end or full stack.
>>54816301
>web-dev
>programming
kill yourself
>>54816947
Literally what am I doing then in a position where I write clients with JS (Angular)? Frontend? Backend?
>>54816301
Because the vast majority of web developers just copy paste code and change a few colors.
This is partly why the internet is slowly falling apart as good standards are ignored.
Real web development take time and money, and is respectable. But a college dropout can slap a website together a lot faster for a fraction of the cost, so it is little wonder why good web developers are so rare people question their very existence.
Thus we assume all web development is basically garbage.
>>54816660
It's not a meme at all. The functional stuff actually works pretty well, but the OOP is garbage. JS is practically Lisp with a C-like syntax.
>>54816971
Frameworks like Angular kinda blur the lines between front end and back end. If you are handling the HTML/CSS/Angular, you're mainly front end, if you are also helping build the backend tech that Angular is communicating with, then full stack, or if you're handling JUST Angular then I guess you're just one guy on a team of web devs. It's all just semantics at that point, and most web devs are just expected to know a bit of everything these days.
>>54817002
This.
>>54817094
>>54816971
Angular is pretty much an operating system. So if you only develop for Angular, you're an Angular OS developer.
>>54817121
>Angular is pretty much an operating system.
wew lad
i've seen some shit in my time, but this
wew
>>54817244
He's just trying to make below average memes.
crud is the word
Because every monkey can do it.
Because it's full of hipsters who don't understand CS fundamentals, would fail calc ii, and it is trend-driven instead of based on proven, theoretically and empirically sound practice (pic related).
I usually just take others people code and then figure out what to replace with my shit then sell it to the customer.
I do the same with apps.
I make a decent pay, similar to a wait staff getting fair tips on good weeks.
>>54817786
>Must need experience in hard maths, chemistry, and other subjects that don't have shit to do with the subject
I'm sick of your Jim Crow laws. Back in the 60s you could go straight to med school. You know why? Because knowing medicine is a skill and a trade that can only be taught in real practice, very few maths aside from dosage.
It's not some whites only club anymore. That's why u mad as fuck.
>>54817878
>calc 2
>hard math
>>54817878
Computer science is literally a field of applied math. The Curry Howard theorem establishes a direct link between a computer program and a proof
Stop being such a dumb monkey
>>54816301
It's not that web developers are looked down upon as much as it is that legit full-stack developers are championed here.
There's a lot of cancer in any field. The cancerous people who do web dev just happens to be very loud.
Once you get a job in webdev, you'll find that your coworkers are like everyone else in the tech field.
>>54817946
>Curry theory
Go on.......
>>54817878
>implying black people can't into math
O-okay...
>>54816475
Its not cancer, but the userbase is.
People develop extremely simple applications in Nodejs + Some gay stripped down chromium and call it a desktop app. Sounds fun until you realize just the base is 50MB+.
Example: https://github.com/Ulydev/love-packer
>>54817941
I hate math. I hated doing repetitive problems. Plus my parents didn't believe in that adhd adderall shit that all the other kids in the honor society had. I excelled in all the other subjects, especially literature and interpretation.
I probably would do good in creating ai models.
Because unless you are actually developing programs (i.e. with a programming language), you aren't actually programming.
Markup is not code, otherwise people who printed books before UIs would be called programmers too.
>>54818113
Math in college isn't like that plug-and-chug shit
It's more about understanding and coming up with new theorems, models and formal objects
>>54817786
Yeah I work as one sadly from a Math and CS background and this sums up most of the people I work with.
>>54818113
>I hate math. I hated doing repetitive problems.
Stop there, you have no idea what math is about.
>>54816301
Because this is what generally passes for a "web-dev":
https://css-tricks.com/tales-of-a-non-unicorn-a-story-about-the-trouble-with-job-titles-and-descriptions/
>>54818147
>Programming something to do shit for you
>some guy who was underminded because he went to a "school"
>"Yeah that's not real programming"
Spends to what extent a web developer understands their craft and the technology.
You can be a web developer that writes HTML pages with inline styling and some inline JavaScript. or you can be a web developer that uses CSS and JavaScript libraries, understands accessibility, cache optimisation, seo, cdn's, restful APIs, concurrent processing, transactions, distributed processing, a middleware stack, clustering and load balancing.
Most people think a web developer builds webpages. But it really does depend what the web page is. Especially with applications slowly moving to saas payment models, everything is slowly becoming a web application and we're all slowly becoming web developers. The exception will be those few use cases in research and science fields, or embedded systems.
>>54818539
You are not supposed to post a normal answer itt. Can't you see "we" are in the process of memeing?
>>54818282
Fizzbuzz is literally research level distributed quantum computing
>>54818282
>the burning FizzBuzz graphic is wrong
>>54816301
Web dev isn't "real" programming
Most people would consider real programming to be back end development
>>54818650
You can do "npm install fizz-buzz", literally what are you talking about? It is easy as fuck......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-csXdj4WVwA
>>54818368
Web development *can* be programming.
It very often isn't though.
>>54818991
ignorant or bait
>>54818928
>all those /g/ anons in the comments
>>54818282
Isn't FizzBuzz just a few if-statements?
So in /g/'s opinion if a UI designer were to create a new GUI, web based or otherwise, that intuitively changes the way people interact with computers it's wouldn't be considered true innovation because it doesn't deal with complex mathematical algorithms? Just curious. Also how do you guys feel about HCI in general?
>>54819095
yep
>>54819108
They probably don't care.
I'm writing a thesis on UI/UX and keep getting memed everywhere (I mean, not really, but everyone is saying it is a meme, which I unfortunately kinda agree). Otherwise, I'm more happy doing design, be it UI or something else, than developing. So yeah, HCI is cool.
You can make money as a "web dev" without programming knowledge and just work with wordpress
Go cart vs nascar
Different barrier to entry and different limits
Imagine a dark-age society. There's pests, there's disease, you're extremely unlikely to live beyond 30 and nobody is doing anything to fix it.
That's software right now. The current regents are hardware developers. They may not have the best of lives by some absolute standard but they get by. Then there's the nobles. These are kernel/driver devs. They're given some shit by the regents but overall they're in a pretty sweet spot. Then there's the knights and vassals. This is developers that deal with the underlying systems we all use. Stuff like keeping the OpenGL/Vulkan specs under control. It's not the most convenient jobs. You get demands from all sides, you interact with the general populace and have to appease both the king and the people lest you get lynched on the street or persecuted legally.
After that comes real software development. These are the landowners, bakers, smiths and so on. They make stuff for people or own land/structures and uphold the social order. They have varying skill and are appreciated for their craft from most sides aside from those they may have to antagonize because of other more pressing duties. Their responsibilities aren't that high, but they don't have as much freedom as they'd like because of financial constraints.
If you keep going a few steps down this class-structure you will eventually find the misfortune. The disabled, lepers, prostitutes (as seen in OP's picture) anyone infirm. They do produce some things. But they never make anything of lasting consequence. They're there at the wims of anyone above them and can easily be replaced or simply removed. Nobody needs the spoon the leper carved from a rotted branch. It's low quality and will break down in an instant.
They lack the skills and the ability to do anything of use so they're stuck doing the tasks nobody else wants to do. Taking care of the pigs (users), cleaning the streets (sysadmin) or simply perform for their betters (prostitutes).
Why should they be respected?
>>54816326
Well actually it's more the opposite. Web dev is looked down upon and /g/ is tagging along on this one.
>>54817121
You've passed this years meme exam. Congratulations.
>>54819165
I understand how you feel. I'm more than comfortable just working in frontend and creating good UI design, but I just feel that it should be considered more influential because it's the first and only aspect of a computer that we interact with. Without the front end we'd still be working in text based interfaces. Idk. Some guys here might actually prefer that. But anyway I'm really interested in your thesis, meme or not.
>>54817084
This. Brendan Eich was originally brought on to make scheme into Netscape's web language, but then they got into bed with Sun. His options were let the world use java as the web language or write a lisp with Java-like syntax.
Now because of the name and the fact that the syntax looks like Java, everyone tries to use it like Java and then decides it's shit when they can't. If you use it like a lisp, you'll be much happier and get a lot more done.
>>54819273
I love your analogy. It's stupid and pointless but it's baroque in its intricacy.
>>54819273
>somebody actually took time to write this
Anyway, keep doing what you love. Not everyone grows up to be interested in the same things as you do. There are a lot of people who like developing web applications, or even designing and creating simpler brochures for other people. There should be no such a thing as "you should do this if you don't want to be called a retard, even if you don't enjoy it at all". In the end nothing matters anyway. You guys are probably just shitposting for fun, but still. Not ok.
>Why is web development so looked down upon as a career compared to other programming fields?
It is extremely out-sourced so you are competing against pajeet's that will work for 1/8th the rate you will charge. While this is true for a majority of languages, it is utterly rampant in web development as it's extremely easy to get into with no proper education.
Web Dev is a trade like being an electrician or a wood worker, you learn what tools to use and how to use them, theoretical knowledge is welcomed of course but not necessary and can be revised superficially.
A computer science bachelor, electrical engineer, and the like are... well, fields of research and study that go deep and have backgrounds in pure sciences and the like. The development done by them goes way deeper than managing data tables and UIs.
But since Web Dev is part of the "2.0" shit and it's also "computer stuff" it's not perceived as a trade because "computers". It's easy to look down on web devs that simply work with templates and learned the trade by prettying myspace profiles or geocities, prideful ones talk about their apps as if it were the next big shit, meanwhile engineers go about their day writing shit ranging from supercomputer stuff to simple embedded stuff in electro-mechanical devices.
That said a CS or EE working web dev stuff is different.
I don't shit on Web Devs because there's no point on doing it, but it's cringey to see them act so proud of their whole act.
>>54819394
The guy is just answering the question. SO what if he's not polite. That's why webdevs are low on the ladder.
It's like complaining about the fact that 50% of people have below average IQ.
>>54819273
You're going to be a shitter for life if you act like you're better than anyone, even if you are, because people won't enjoy your company.
>>54819453
You do realize I'm a baker in my own analogy right?
>>54819469
A baker? I thought you were a twat.
>>54816301
Web dev = I glue together currynigger frameworks from stackoverflow and hope it works
>>54819516
Well I'm clearly not a twat. Why would you assume that? Women aren't that common here on /g/.
>>54819434
Are Software Engineering majors supposed to be any better then? Not so much theoretical knowledge there either.
>>54816301
it's not.
>>54816301
Who is that qt 3.14?
Btw proof why webdev is the best.
>>54819640
breeder pls go
>>54819640
Linda Liukas, she is so cute! I think she recently got married
>>54819715
>Linda Liukas
sweet jesus
thx anon
>>54819394
>somebody actually took time to write this
Well. It was just something I wrote on the spot. Took me maybe 2-5 minutes. Was entertaining to think up the analogy. IT's not very polished, it has holes. But it's a decent first attempt.
I honestly don't see why you people are upset and have to be insulting. All I did was make an analogy. It's clearly a humorous analogy and the insulting bits are really just reality.
I remember this old MIT (I think) talk. I can't remember who did it but it talked about how computer science is stagnating because the academic portion of the field has had its aim shortened. Back in the 70's-80's there were tons of stuff happening because people aimed far. They were looking for the future of computing. Now research is done on how a specific existing GPU should be utilized effectively.
If someone knows what I'm talking about I'd love a link to it. It was really interesting. He went on and on about how even at MIT people had stopped creating their own hardware and relied on vendors, which he saw as hampering progress.
>>54817002
This times 100
I worked for a local start up for a while and it gave web dev a pretty bad taste in my mouth. My boss would rush, mismanage interns and overly lie to quickly push features out the door and make clients happy. People who are give web dev companies like my old one business are usually naive and ignorant as to what goes on. See http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/ruby/rails/is-a-ghetto.
Because of this gap of knowledge which has yet to close, the web dev industry is full of young hipster-type programmers who are promised decent pay as long as they don't mind bullshitting a client. My friend was actually fired and forced to sign a non-defamation agreement.
In terms of actual programming, I've seen some pretty horrible practices, both on past projects and from the people I've worked with (including my boss who founded the company). The only real thing keeping the industry going is salesmanship and pushing garbage out the door for quick profit without worrying about where it goes. There's really no motivation for writing good maintainable code.
Fucking gay ass pleb dev, I'm constanly listening how it is a meme industry, everyday, IRL and online. I can't stand this shit anymore, I never felt so stupid and weak in my life. I more or less wasted three years on some degree that would basically only get me into this field, it grew to the point I started hating everything computer related.
While I have actual talents in different things, I got stuck in this shithole, getting blasted on a daily basis and feeling like trash. This is why I'm triggered, I don't even want to be here, but now while I'm here I can't escape the reality.
I'll probably do another degree and never look back.
>>54816522
>maybe some graphic designer skills for logos and sht
Designing a good UI goes far beyond that; Sorry it must seem ridiculous, but I'm a graphics designer by degree, webdev by passion (maybe not "fullstack" I do mainly server side coding and algorithms, but I'm able to code a UI).
Just as an example, one of the VERY important aspects of a UI that is often forgotten is the semantic flow, which can chew a big part of the hypothetical SEO specialist.
Anyway, I'm now a HFC network something*, I only make a website every 2 months or so on the side, but I try to have respect for every skill related to webdesign and dev, because there's a great deal of knowledge that goes into everything, if you want stuff to get done the proper way.(*I'm not gonna use the E-word, because I don't have any degree related to that, but I proved able to design, plan, and do any math related to fiber-coax infrastructure, so I got te job).
>>54816301
probably because it's quite easy to do
>>54819997
>I'll probably do another degree and never look back.
Not CS related right?
It's a meme. Unless you're actually going into academia.
Actual web applications are just as difficult to create and require the same development skills as traditional projects. The web is simply a medium for the program. I'm not saying that pumping out basic crud web apps requires immense talent, but I'm sure there are similarly easy tasks in other areas of software development as well. And as for front end, it requires a completely different skillset than software programming and isn't really comparable.
>>54820027
Not CS related. At one point I was considering it, but it's just not my thing. I would occasionally get inspired and start going through MIT and Udacity courses but in the end I always realize it is not my passion. Maybe it would be different if I was programming something more interesting than web portals. It's just a lose-lose situation for me. I neither like it, nor get any respect for it. It's eating me from the inside too much.
I should not be here, even if people are just memeing or not, I just leave this place feeling bad every day.
>>54820114
Webdev will do that to you I suppose.
![1445036629141[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/FYWeLLw.png "1445036629141[1].png")
>webdev
>programming
take your women and your pajeets and leave, peasant!!!
>>54816301
In EU, being a programmer is exactly the same
In USA they are making everyone believe that programming is the shit, but in reality is just a way to stop the unemployment
>>54816301
Because it could be done by a half-brained monkey and webdevs keep being butthurt and pretending they do any actual work.
>>54820276
>but in reality is just a way to stop the unemployment
This.
Webdev is this tier of programming where it's not really programming. It's like artists vs people who do fingerpainting. Sure fingerpainting can be fun. Some results can be quite good. But it's not like anyone would pay for a fingerpainting.
>>54818282
Is this real? Are people like that the reason a web browser is the most demanding application I run most days?
Because it's basically just about flower pots.
At first I didn't believe that myself either.
But once you follow the rabbit hole you will notice it too.
>>54820041
Most websites are little more than database frontends though
>>54820354
What the actual fuck are you talking about when everything is becoming a web service today? Even apps are starting to be just browsers for a webpage. I don't understand how can people trash on web developers when everything you use on a daily basis is a product of them.
>graduated with ee degree
>chose to focus in JS
>have a sweet job doing JS
>make over 6 figures
check me
>>54820412
because 99% of what they produce is total garbage.
>Even apps are starting to be just browsers for a webpage.
that's pretty much the definition of "shitty useless app". Bitch, if I wanted a homescreen/desktop icon for your page, I'd just make a shortcut to the browser, instead of polluting my storage with your horrible, broken, unmaintained chromium reskin.
>>54820451
You should probably kys by their standards.
>>54820041
Yes and often scaling application for many users at the same time can be much more challenging compared to single client applications
>>54820451
oh, and i work on more complex algorithms using JS than all of you pa*eets combined. have you even touched CSP using your precious haskell? face it nerds, JS is the future
>>54820481
and to top it all off, i guarantee you have run my code before. our product gets used by over a billion people per month ;-^)
>>54820458
Well-made apps often deliver information using much less bandwidth than your web browser would. But most are just for tracking you more.
>>54820458
The line between native and hybrid is slowly fading away. Anyway, there is a lot of garbage because there is a lot of people in this field. The point still stands - everything is becoming a web application.
>>54820507
>most are just for tracking you more
yep. always more trackers and ads for that extra $0.0001 per visitor.
>>54820514
>everything is becoming a web application
and that's fucking sad.
and horrible.
HTML, CSS and JS are all simple technologies for documents. Simple, stupid documents.
HTML is for writing simple documents. It's XML's retarded cousin, minus the X (MUH WEBCOMPONENTS! #USETHEPLATFORM! READY IN 2030!!)
CSS is for saying "yo, I want this shit to be red and slightly bigger". If you want something more complex, you're in for some serious shit. It wasn't designed for this and it shows. The fact that floats STILL have to be used to position blocks next to each other in 2016 is pathetic. It's nothing but a hackish workaround. You couldn't possibly have brought more gotchas, artificial limits, inconsistencies and performance problems into a style language if you tried.
JS is for simple interactivity. Clicking on a button and getting an alert. The language already combines all the worst aspects a language could have, and the browser APIs are just inconsistent and bugged beyond belief. Pretty much what you'd expect from a language developed in 10 days.
But people are trying to force these technologies to do things that they were never intended to do. HTML for Application markup. CSS for complex layouts, visual effects and animations. JS for everything imaginable and filling gaps in the other 2 technologies.
It just doesn't work. If you think it does, you have NO idea what you're talking about. Try to use a proper, modern toolkit that was actually intended for applications (not the C/++ shit you're thinking about) and see (and measure) the differences in every area.
Seeing a web developer attempt to make an application is like watching someone drive a nail into a wall by bashing the backside of said nail against his eyesocket. And that's fucking retarded.
And don't even get me started on the serverside. There is nothing left to say about PHP that hasn't been said already. And Node has to be the worst idea ever.
It's getting better, the people in charge of the web today know what they're doing. It will be years before their results will be usable, though.
>>54820567
I don't see what is sad about that. Just being able to access your stuff anywhere, on every device is comfy as fuck.
>>54820597
That is true, and it is sad, but we have to deal with it for now. Saying JS is a simple technology "just for creating alert after click" is not true though.
>>54820604
I guess I've just worked in webdev long enough and seen enough shitty code to automatically assume everything "web" is a steaming pile of shit by definition.
Also, I guess my hatred of mobile computing is skewing my view.
I find it very sad that webOS died. It was the first good approach at making all these utopias work, but the devices were hopelessly underpowered.
It was just too early, I guess.
>>54820633
Yeah, it isn't. But still, it wasn't made for making desktop class multi-form-factor enterprise applications.
Most of the APIs are being completely misused, and it took the people in charge decades to come up with proper solutions.
XMLHttpRequest definitely wasn't invented by the retards of the IE team for the ajax shenanigans we use it for today. And it took them over a decade to make a modern (and still more low-level) API.
...But then even that has missing features, like being unable to abort requests.
The people who were in charge of all the web technologies during the HTML1-4 and XHTML days were incompetent. You could tell that they'd simply never written any non-trivial application (in their own technologies).
Today that is luckily different. The people in charge of the web now are the browser vendors and actual developers who know their actual needs and how a well usable, flexible and powerful API should look like. I really like that the web is becoming more extensible and that more and more browser internals are being exposed to developers (Houdini, for example, is going to be a HUGE game changer).
But until then, we still have to bastardize a document system to death to get it to behave as if it was an application platform.
It just isn't.
>>54820412
Anon have you seen how long lived these projects are?
They're fingerpaintings you put on display so the kids can feel proud and then you just throw them in the recycling bin.
>what you use on a daily basis
Well it's less that I'm using it out of my own free will and more that there's large forces at play making us all look at your fingerpaintings. They're very transient for the most part and the stuff that lasts is just not focused around webdev usually. It tends to be a greater idea that quickly moves away from webdev. Like Facebook. Moving to C++.
>>54820514
>The line between native and hybrid is slowly fading away.
Yeah this is a good thing. Finally real programmers can replace webdevs.
>>54817786
What's wrong with MongoDB?
>>54821018
It doesn't necessarily save your data
>>54819731
flawless
l
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l
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.
>>54818282
"Howdy again! I’m going to close this thread. We’re over the “more than half vitriol” level which is pretty crazy for CSS-Tricks. This isn’t the CSS-Tricks community talking."
What complete failures.
>>54820451
This desu
As long as you get paid, it doesn't matter
>>54818282
>ugh I hate math lol
This is why I'm a misogynist
>>54816955
>>web-dev
>>programming
>kill yourself
Literally being this retarded
Just Kill yourself already
>>54816301
web is overdeveloped and needs a real reboot / overhaul
>>54816301
It's not, only among /g/ neets
>>54818099
>Example: https://github.com/Ulydev/love-packer
holy fucking shit this is cancerous.
>>54816301
>compared to other programming fields
>webdev is programming
>>54816636
to learn really good javascript do this.
absolute beginner:
Jason Millhouse:
>Javascript Road Trip
>Javascript Best practices
intermediate:
Marijn Haverbeke:
>Eloquent Javascript
Expert:
anything from Crockford.
after that you learn the web workflow.
learn tools to use and the general technologies that go into creating web applications.
When you say web-dev, you also include back-end?
