Why can't freetard developers into aesthetics and user friendly interface?
>>54343579
function > form
>>54343588
interface is the bridge to function
>autism>function
>>54343579
KDE > Win 10 > OSX
a real mystery as a few of trillions of jobless designers should want to do something for free in order to get recognized
>>54343588
bad form = time wasted.
Of course, I suppose that doesn't matter if your time is worthless.
>>54343579
define aesthetics and user friendly interface.
Most DEs accomplish that just fine.
>>54343603
> retarded freecuck tripfag
>>54343622
You forgot your shitty anime reaction pic
>>54343603
> retarded freecuck tripfag
>>54343603
Win 10 > OSX > horse shit > KDE > all other LOONIX shite
>>54343693
Windows 10 shouldn't be on top for the simple fact that it is the least customizable
>>54343693
Linux has nothing to do with a desktop environment.
>>54343579
why don't YOU help them then?
>>54343728
He's a dumb anime poster
ie: useless
>>54343603
Sol invictus is known to be a faggot, do not take any of his posts seriously.
>>54343754
Even a broken clock is right twice a day
>>54343588
I wish /g/ would stop acting like the two are mutually exclusive
good form channels and facilitates function, not everything "good looking" is apple trash
>>54343728
>try to make a clone of a popular proprietary application
>it sucks shit
>try to get users of the application to switch to your clone
>they point out that it sucks shit
>but it's still their fault because they wouldn't "help" you make it better even though the alternative is already perfect
Freetard shills are fucking incredible.
>>54343789
the people that care about such things are often mutually exclusive though
too many "form" people and you get something like Mozilla spending all their time masturbating about looking like Chrome and nobody worried about fixing memory leaks. Because that's boring, I wanna add aerodynamic tabs!
OSX > *BSD > Solaris (sysVR4 Unix) > Win10 > GNU/Linux
the only reason to run Linux is if you're a mentally ill freetard.
They have autism and can't comprehend how other people might think, if it works for them it's perfect.
>>54343866
>OSX
why run Unix with that awful UI and proprietary crap drizzled all over it? It's like making dinner and then shitting on it before you eat it.
>>54343876
Yes good goyim, use Windows and OSX and let Microsoft and Apple make all the hard decisions for you.
Customizable? HAHAHA, sure we'll release more themes for a nominal fee.
>>54343849
>the people that care about such things are often mutually exclusive though
but that's not true at all, look at the high-end enterprise kit of yesteryear, or even apple systems before Jobs started waging war on the professional market to appease soccer moms who think they're too good for an ipad
>too many "form" people and you get something like Mozilla spending all their time masturbating about looking like Chrome and nobody worried about fixing memory leaks. Because that's boring, I wanna add aerodynamic tabs!
people with shit taste are everywhere, it doesn't mean everyone has shit taste
>>54343938
>look at the high-end enterprise kit of yesteryear,
Yeah because stuff that lives in a datacenter really needs to have a good-looking case. I can't imagine why Fractal doesn't sell 1u rack servers.
>>54343603
>>54343638
>>54343704
>>54343744
>>54343911
Kill yourself.
>>54344001
Make fun of me and miss getting trips
Let this be a lesson to you
>>54343907
>Unix
>proprietary
Yes, that's the way it has always been.
>>54343579
GUI is bloat.
>>54344052
And now we have better software that doesn't have that bullshit in it anymore. Quit living in the past and use software that you control.
W2000 > all
Prove me wrong.
Protip: You can't.
I wish more designers tried to follow a terminal like interface for their programs. Call me autistic or whatever, but I love the archaic simplicity and blandness of the terminal, over flashy, performance hogging bloat GUI.
>>54344101
>opensores
>better
nah. They are good at cloning commercial software, but they can't come up with shit on their own.
>>54343985
>b-but need
it's not all about what you "need", you ultimately don't "need" any of this shit, all it does is make something you did by hand before a little easier and quicker; people survived for thousands of years without computers holding their hand in everything they do
good design is the icing on the functional cake that shows you actually gave a shit about what you made, and you know who your customers are, instead of throwing a bunch of garbage in a box for the lowest bidder, it makes your products memorable, it establishes a brand
>>54343579
They're almost always mental defectives who are completely detached from reality. If it works in their crazy broken mind, then they think it works for everybody else.
>I need to make a free open source alternative to Photoshop
>Adobe Photoshop is professional software used by millions, and its the industry standard.
>It not only exceeds in its role, but the user interface and layout are intuitive, and attractive
>How can I compete with that?
>I need to establish a brand presence capable of competing with the air of decorum that Adobe's software has
>I know what I'll call my software!
GREEN IS MY PEPPER LOL
>>54344112
>windows 2k
ma nigga
>>54343579
I will attempt to provide an answer in a wall of text.
The process to create a user friendly interface involves very little coding. Most developers want to code. What they don't want to do is:
- Identify target users for their software
- Interview 4-5 target users to understand their needs from the software
- Analyse the users' current task flow
- Create workflow diagrams (on paper)
- Think of a navigation flow and information hierarchy (on paper) to accommodate the workflow
- User test this, using paper prototypes or interactive wireframes
- Watch hours of user test videos, watching users commit error after error, figuring out why the big obvious "Next" button was literally invisible to everyone
- Refine their wireframe
- Apply a nice-looking skin to the wireframe
All of these activities take place before you write a single line of code, and lead to user friendly interfaces.
As you can see this has nothing to do with coding. A software company will typically assign a user researcher, an information architect, and a graphic designer to do this work.
Freetard developers want to dive straight into their algorithm, and the UI will just organically grow around that, in a way which provides the least inconvenience for the developer.
>>54344150
the only reason companies fight so hard to establish a brand is because brands let them charge extra for the same product from people who don't know any better in a commoditized market (like the people that'll pay $5 for Tylenol instead of $3 for generic ibuprofen)
>>54344191
All they have to do is copy MS/Apple like the large distros have been doing for the last 20 years.
>>54344191
most proprietary-software companies don't want to bother with this shit either, desu
a lot of them dont
>>54344243
No. The main reason why I even use linux is because I don't want to be involved with apple or microsoft.
>>54343579
Freetards are overwhelmingly programmers.
Bad UX is merely a reflection of the nature of UX pros.
Conclusion
>those who care about the UX don't give a flying fuck about you or me
>>54344191
>- Identify target users for their software
>- Interview 4-5 target users to understand their needs from the software
>- Analyse the users' current task flow
Irrelevant, dev is target user
>- Create workflow diagrams (on paper)
>- Think of a navigation flow and information hierarchy (on paper) to accommodate the workflow
>- User test this, using paper prototypes or interactive wireframes
Development bloat
>- Watch hours of user test videos, watching users commit error after error, figuring out why the big obvious "Next" button was literally invisible to everyone
Again, dev is is target user. Other users expected to have a modicum of intelligence
>- Refine their wireframe
>- Apply a nice-looking skin to the wireframe
More bloat
>>54344265
>>those who care about the UX don't give a flying fuck about you or me
Your statement is a contradiction. "You or me" are users, our experience is the user experience, thus those who care about the "user experience" care about you or me.
t. UX professional
>>54344265
Oh yeah and Microsoft does?
>>54343579
something happened
>>54343579
Why Cant OP grammer?
>>54344295
Users don't need anything else than a good old terminal.
>>54344295
go back to wanking over your "material design" bullshit and reducing information density for the millionth time
>>54344301
I can't even tell which side you're on.
>>54344295
You've sold your soul to the devil, deal with it.
t. professional freetard
>>54343579
>Why can't freetard developers into aesthetics and user friendly interface?
They are hobbiysts, not real developers.
>>54344382
>this is what 4channers actually believe
>>54344365
I said KDE was my favorite UI and I'm calling him wrong for thinking that Microsoft cares more about end users than people who make open/free software.
I'm clearly pro Linux
>>54344404
You don't understand how this shit works, do you? It's amazing to me that a tripfag doesn't understand that
>YOU CANNOT ASSUME EVERYONE TO READ THE ENTIRE THREAD FOR YOUR OFF-REPLY REMARKS
Die in a fire.
>>54344398
No it's true. Free software is mosy composed of:
- autistic commies
- curriculum building beginners
- hobbyists
Not professionals.
>>54344198
>queue the "but muh corporations" whining and cynicism
cry me a fucking river while you show me where the big bad macfag touched you
a brand is the face of your company, it's how your customers and potential customers see and interact with you, it's as important to you as the hardware itself, regardless of whether you're marking shit up or not (like that's even relevant to this discussion)
>>54344446
>mostly
Aaand here we go with the relative logic. You'll reply to any counterargument with
>I said mosy
Go fuck yourself, mkay? You don't have a fucking clue about what you're talking about.
I'm out, this is a complete waste of my time.
>>54344446
Nice quinn....
...Nevermind.
>>54344446
If you talk about the thousands of tiny 1-man projects on GitHub with 0 users, I guess this is true. But the heavy hitters of the web, database, statistics, what-have-you of today are free software, used by thousands of large companies, who have paid programmers who discover and patch bugs, contribute to new features, etc. They're doing this as part of their paid job.
>>54344446
I didn't know that hobbyists could make this much money
>>54344510
Corporations can do what they want. But you shouldn't pay extra for a pretty box. Its as true of servers as it is for painkillers
>>54343704
that is simply not true
>>54343773
unless that broken clock is a namefag and a tripfag on an anonymous basket weaving forum
>>54344526
The problem is that the tiny one man projects are the desktop projects, and the professional projects are server projects.
>>54344554
everyone has their own needs and priorities, but that wasn't really my point to begin with
form and function are not mutually exclusive just because one shitty company gimped their model lineup to appeal to trendy millennials
>>54344663
once any company realizes there's a market for things that look good but are useless, they'll start removing the function to sell nothing but form to those trendy people. it saves on development costs.
>>54344554
Prettiness makes life more enjoyable.
>>54343579
Good question. I'm a freetard developer and I get a rash whenever I see a shitty GUI impossible to comfortably navigate with a keyboard. I might as well have psoriasis at this point.
>>54344711
What a shit attitude.
>I don't expect excellence from anything because nobody will ever try to deliver anything more than the absolute minimum of acceptiblity.
You deserve to own ugly, barely functional things.
>>54344191
>>- Identify target users for their software
>- Interview 4-5 target users to understand their needs from the software
>- Analyse the users' current task flow
>- Create workflow diagrams (on paper)
>- Think of a navigation flow and information hierarchy (on paper) to accommodate the workflow
>- User test this, using paper prototypes or interactive wireframes
>- Watch hours of user test videos, watching users commit error after error, figuring out why the big obvious "Next" button was literally invisible to everyone
Fucking bullshit. Just try using the program youself and imagine yourself into the position of the average layman using it. If you can't navigate it with that mindset, your UI sucks.
Also why the fuck can't freetards into redundancy? As if having two hotkeys do the same thing was almost a cardinal sin. You have a 100+ button keyboard and 80% of the keys (not even including modifier combos) aren't doing anything.
>>54344382
underrated post
>>54344766
>ugly, barely functional things
things can be ugly and work fine. In which case why spend good money replacing them?
>>54344766
Better ugly and functional and pretty and non-functional
>>54344875
>Better ugly and functional and pretty and non-functional
Freetard software is ugly AND non functional.
>>54344937
>I don't understand how to use this piece of software because it doesn't hold my hand and expects me to use the keyboard!
>therefore it's not functional despite that everyone else can use it properly!
>>54344937
this
>>54344957
>he uses ffmpeg to add titles to video.
You're amazing! Are you a hacker?
>>54344957
>Using inferior software to gain autism points
>>54344844
>try using the program youself and imagine yourself into the position of the average layman using it
>finish program
>imagine myself as layman
>use it
>find several big problems from a layman's perspective
>"but this would require re-writing large portions of the code, and also a fundamental change to the database, and consequently all the modules relying on the DB must change their architecture"
>fuck that shit
This is why you think about how the program will be like when used by a user, before you actually write said program.
>>54345005
>Autism: the post
when will you get a gun, shoot a couple of people, and then pull the trigger on your own tripfagging fat face?
>>54344957
If functionality is there but people cannot use it, does the system provide that functionality at all?
Example: Imagine a scissor with grips made for hands 1/4 the size of human hands. They cut. Or do they?
>>54345015
underrated post.
>>54345015
>falling for pasta
>>54345005
Chill out maaaaan
>>54345005
I don't know what got you in this mood but I hope tomorrow will treat you better!
>>54345039
every post that tripfag makes is autism, he is autism, regardless of his pasta, but also the fact that he uses pasta
>>54343579
Because they would alienate their userbase.
The only people using freetard programs are the ones who shy away from the objectively superior enterprise option because "Muh botnets".
Making it visually pleasing would make them think they sold their soul to the evil corporations of something.
>>54343588
True but that doesnt mean form has no value.
Also the function on alot of free shit is bad as well.
>>54343579
Same reason they dress like shit.
>>54345030
they cut perfectly, you're not every human and you have bitch hands
>>54345002
90% of all efficiency problems on the layman's side are solved by moving a piece of the GUI or adding a hotkey to a function.
If that requires rewriting huge chunks of code that's less the user's fault and more the dev's for being the shittiest programmer on the planet.
>>54343866
Os x is just as shit as linux. Safari is the new Internet explorer in terms of web standards compliance.
>>54345170
>giving a shit about the web/web browser.
>>54345136
So do they provide the functionality of cutting for the average layperson, whose fingers don't fit in the holes, or only to a special elite who have trained and trained until they master these scissors, and call out the vast majority who pay "exorbitant" prices for "designer" scissors which have "handle bloat but don't actually cut better"?
>>54345157
What type of software do you write, and have you had it tested by an external user testing consultant, or an in-house user research team?
>>54343579
The problem is that freetard software does not come with training. When you buy commercial Windows enterprise software, the vendor has training courses to teach you. User training solves most problems, but with free software you are on your own.
>>54345196
It just shows how many fucks Apple gives about its desktop software. Os x is basically a designer OS made for faggots and nothing more.
If you prioritise looks over function in a tool you're a fabulous cockworshipper.
>>54345296
>webbabby
>calling others faggots.
kek.
>>54345272
No one uses training for software.
The most used pieces of software are widely used because they're fool-proof one button solutions to problems or, in the case they're not, they typically lead you to what you need even when blindly going through them, through intuitive GUI design and carefully applied redundancy.
Meanwhile, freetard software is designed with a hostile "If the user can't figure it out then they don't deserve to use my software, hyuk hyuk" mindframe.
>>54345272
>software comes with training
no wonder you freetards are retarded, you're stuck in the past
>>54345157
>90% of all efficiency problems on the layman's side are solved by adding a 'customize hotkeys' function
ftfy
>>54345420
That too.
Programs that don't allow you to customize your own hotkeys are the devil.
>>54345323
>>The most used pieces of software are widely used because they're fool-proof one button solutions to problems or, in the case they're not, they typically lead you to what you need even when blindly going through them, through intuitive GUI design and carefully applied redundancy.
>modern Office
>Photoshop
>Visual Studio
top zozzle
>>54345318
Who said I'm only doing webdev. I started with C++.
You're still a raging faggot for being an OS X fanboy. I can see that butthurt from miles. You just can't resist the Ive's UI charms.
>>54345449
All three programs in your post can end up doing what you want from them just by clicking on the pretty pictures that most closely match what you want from them.
I use both PS and VS, and I could consistently use them for small works right out of the box the very first times I used them.
Because guess what, they're professionally geared to be user-friendly, not purposefully gated off so the dev can feel like the king of turbonerds.
>>54345479
You can't call Photoshop's UI good with a sober mind. Shit is just as bad as the GIMP you fags keep constantly memin about.
>>54345500
>this delusional
>>54344535
>Free Software
>Closed-source, expensive proprietary enterprise middleware and ridiculous support contracts
Something like that, yeah.
>>54345517
How can one be "delusional" about a UI experience? Go to bed.
>>54345533
because you believe the opposite of the truth
Designer will nearly 20 year experience. I've tired approaching a few projects back in early 2003 (forgot the name) and was met with nothing but hostility and general whiny attitudes how they were always right and would not hear me out.
I really hope most project leads aren't like this, I generally would love to help out on some software projects but at the same time, I need to make a living and can't spend countless hours hearing how I'm wrong on everything.
>>54344711
and what exactly does this have to do with anything?
why again does putting effort into your product automatically turn into pointless feature gimping to "save on development costs" when functionality is cheap and easy to implement?
>>54345557
trying to work with autistic people is terrible, especially if they're programmers and in the majority
>freetards hate on videogames because "muh manchild timewasting pastime"
>meanwhile videogames are actually a textbook example of software UI design done right
Hands up, how many of you faggots use a dropdown terminal
>>54345557
>I really hope most project leads aren't like this,
They are. Free software it's full of arrogant autists like that. No wonder they cannot even manage to give away their software for free.
>>54345628
Autistic programmers are one thing.
Braindead project leads are another.
>>54345665
What.
Video games are anything BUT UI done right.
>>54345690
>Autistic programmers are one thing.
>Braindead project leads are another.
>Implying these categories don't overlap
>>54344620
honestly KDE and GNOME have much better interfaces than any windows ever did
i'm still using win7 for gaming tho, but i dual-boot archlinux
>>54345665
games usually have pretty cheesey shit interfaces though
>>54345665
This is the average /v/ poster everyone
>>54345719
GNOME hasn't been worth a shit since 2.x and KDE has barely ever been worth a shit, plasma looks like a shitty deviantart Win10 skin with aero elements and is about as stable too
GNOME 2 was great but I don't see it holding a candle to the classic shell, especially with the shitty icon sets it shipped with by default.
>>54345690
>"Video games are anything BUT UI done right"
>each hand dedicated to controlling a whole separate aspect of the program
>layout is optimized to be fast to use and to cramp your hands as little as possible
>high level of interaction between the graphic aspect and your input
>lots of customizable hotkeys
>it's fun
>"nah let's do more things through bash lines!"
>>54345746
This is the average tripfag shitposter everyone
op thinks a good interface is osx, because he uses his computer as a glorified facebook machine
>>54345865
actually, (op here), I use windows
>>54345897
op thinks a good interface is Windows, because he uses his computer as a glorified gaming console.
>>54345914
I don't waste my time playing video games, but nice try with the assumptions you pulled out of your ass
>>54345804
What are you on about?
Have you even played any games lately?
They are anything BUT that.
>>54345865
Better using it as a gloryfied teletype simulator, right?
>>54345981
No I only play 20 year old games
>>54345990
You do know that osx is UNIX, right?
>>54345557
>spend countless hours hearing how I'm wrong on everything.
I'm a designer for a large software company lacking any sort of usability culture. I do exactly that, but at least I get paid.
>>54346074
>You do know that osx is UNIX, right?
Yes, and?
>>54346107
Thus making it a glorified teletype simulator with a gui on top.
>>54344198
>$5 for Tylenol instead of $3 for generic ibuprofen)
tylenol != ibuprofen, retard
they aren't even in the same class of drugs
Most FOSS programmers are autistic neckbeards, and autistic people literally can't imagine themselves as other users.
Not all FOSS software is shit though. Antox has a nice interface.
>Using a GUI
>Using any browser at all?
Enjoy your poor privacy
Lol I still have a machine that runs Unix
the only reason I use this website is cause my phone
>>54346129
OSX users don't go around on cambodian hentai forums pontificating that listening to mp3s from the command line is absolutely normal.
>>54346180
>phone
enjoy your NO privacy, fag
>>54343579
>Why can't freetard developers into aesthetics
Because they think they can into design.
I.e. they don't know shit about design but they think they do.
>sick in the gulliver desu
>>54346249
>Not using your own SDR transceiver, using a one-time-pad and FHSS.
Absolute plebs.
>>54346324
>thinking that will actually guarantee privacy
enjoy your placebo
>>54346221
I must hang around the right kind of OS X users then. IE Solaris -> OSX converts, they only chose OS X because its Unix for the desktop and thus don't mind using the command line.
>>54346335
Number stations are still active, as far as I know.
>not making your own aesthetics and using the terminal for actual functionality
what are you even doing
>>54343603
How does it feel to be unanonymous by choice on an anonymous imageboard?
>>54343693
Windows 10
I mean sure, paint interface made of white blocks, completely fucking inconsistent, has different font rendering here and there, different fonts as well.
I mean c'mon now, you can't be fucking serious. It's an eyesore. I can't currently think of anything worse by default right now.
>>54347734
>I only know memes and no facts
kill you are self
>>54346314
We CAN change it.
>>54343579
Because they have A E S T H E T I C S, which is arguably superior to regular aesthetics.
>>54348232
>half-assed 2005-tier glossy skeumorphism
>a e s t h e t i c s
please senpai
I actually wish free software still stuck to that kind of austere pseudo-3D aesthetic, back when they tried to feel more like Unix systems rather than a shitty Vista clone for teenage halfasses.
>>54348383
though honestly, I don't even know why I posted GNOME
>a fucking foot
guys, it's not just the desktop environment. Creative programs like GIMP and Blender are ass-backwards as fuck impossible to use. I'd go as far as to say that they're harmful to society, because they make people think that digital art is too complicated for them.
>>54348383
That looks terrabad
Only win2k pulled off the grey boxes looks.
>>54343606
jobless for a reason
>>54344131
Funny how the Internet runs on Gnu/Linux, isn't it?
>>54343693
Anything > 50 ft pile of pure shit >> Windows 10
>>54345520
Show me a single source for that.
>>54348423
Xfce also was kind of neat too back when it tried to be a clone of CDE
>>54348462
GNOME always had the shittiest icons, though I find those early versions a little more soothing than even 2.x in a way
but even then, *nix interfaces used to have a "so bad it was cool" kind of feel to it, it didn't necessarily feel sub-par as it does now, just different and exciting because of it
classic Explorer, IRIX 4Dwm and CDE are probably my favorite classical pseudo-3D implementations.
>>54343579
Because they're autistic.
>>54343579
Cinnamon's pretty toptier
>>54348524
>retard doesn't realise that GNU/Linux is a clone of Unix that originally ran the internet.
Look up Sun's stock prices in the mid 90's. GNU/Linux didn't become a strong internet-OS until after the dot-com bust.
If freetards don't care about wide adoption, shit like UI and UX doesn't matter, genuinely it doesn't.
At the same time, platitudes like "people should just learn the command line" or "program the features you want in yourself, that's the best thing about free software!" do nothing to actually increase adoption of their software.
People who aren't power users will go for the option that is the easiest and most convenient to use, and from that, the most intuitive thing to use.
A I said above, if wide adoption isn't a goal, and you don't want the average consumer to use your product, none of what I said applies. What annoys me is freetards complaining no one uses their free software, and refuse to do anything that would make it more attractive as an option. To use an analogy from a different people, no one other than hobbyists really buy kit cars. People just need a car to drive, they don't want to have to learn how to make one, and the attitude of "well, they should" does NOTHING to increase the adoption of kit cars!
