ITT: red flags when applying for a position
>agile development
>devops (we don't want to pay for people to take care of our infrastructure)
>scrum or any other form of micromanagement (we don't trust you and don't have the appropriate means to identify who's working and who's not with appropriate deliveries and goals)
>we have rooms with videogames/ping pong tables/places to rest or any similar bullshit (we expect you to work beyond your 8 hour shift and often to not go home)
>we only hire people who fit the company culture (we want you to bend over so we can pay you less and you have to pretend you like it)
>>53958321
kek
true
>>53958321
>>we only hire people who fit the company culture (we want you to bend over so we can pay you less and you have to pretend you like it)
If you're more than half the people interviewing you are minorities or people that constitute less than half of your local population, it could also be a racial thing.
>president of Syria (2000 - present (contested))
definite red flag m80
seriously though, if someone claimed to know haskell it would be one way or the other. if they know haskell, definitely a good sign - knowing haskell is surprisingly good signal that someone can adopt a totally different programming style/paradigm than the one they currently use, and just that they're capable of adapting. haskell, prolog, and other declarative languages are just weird to wrap your head around if you come from an imperative format or a von neumann architecture in general. haskell really fucks with a lot of the fundamentals that you might have assumed about logical reasoning, hence the good signal if someone does really know it.
if someone's lying (like they've seen haskell code so they put it on their CV) then obviously that's a bad sign.
>>53957807
What's wrong with agile?
All my internships have been agile. I think most high paying companies do so.
>>53963182
Looks like you're employers meme'd on you
>>53963182
Nothing wrong with Agile. The only people I've encountered raising objectives to it, are those who think that they are more important than the business unit who they're servicing, and that they can just work at their own pace forever (i.e. someone who doesn't understand the concept of the internal customer). It's truly not that hard - build a relationship, spec things correctly, collaborate, get it done.
>>53963332
>helpful /g/ response
About par for the course.
>>53963336
I really dislike the group aspect. Thanks for the insight though.
>>53963345
Daily standups are frustrating depending on participants, but make things transparent and improve resourcing as a result.
scrum
>>53963353
What tech companies don't use agile? All my internships have been with more corporate companies, but I'm looking to apply for tech companies soon.
>full stack
>>53963376
I work at Google and we never use agile on my team. Some teams do it, with daily standup meetings and all. I find that shit really annoying.
>Questions that trap you to saying you're willing to work overtime
>must be pro-skub
>>53963390
That's where I plan to apply. What kind of requisites do you need to apply?
I do research, and have had internships, but my cumulative gpa is a low 3. My CS gpa is a 4 though, but I have almost no extracurriculars because I'm poor.
Pretty much anything in this; especially the repeated / bolded ones.
In an interview I asked what kind of source control they use.
They didn't know what it was.
>>53963457
i would probe a bit. sometimes a non-technical person does an initial interview or something, and you don't want to judge a company based on how tech savvy the non tech people are. You wouldn't really expect the HR manager (or an accountant or legal counsel) to be able to answer questions like what source control the company uses.
i agree though, it sounds bad. like "get up and walk out without further discussion" bad.
>go to job search database
>put in "no requirements for previous work experience"
>junior toilet scrubber needed
>5 years of toilet scrubbing experience
>a higher education in a irrelevant field
>"come to our group meeting on"
Gee. Thanks.
>>53963491
>>put in "no requirements for previous work experience"
>>5 years of toilet scrubbing experience
so you fucking failed at searching.
>>53963474
HR interviewers are the worst.
At least bring on a consultant who knows about the position and what it needs.
It's your damn company, you should try to hire as competent people as possible.
>>53963498
No. It's the people posting the listing that clicked the box even though they shouldn't have.
It happens quite often on the website I visit.
>>53963474
It was their lead programmer.
I took the job anyway because I needed the experience.
They "zipped" up their code every now and then, but left it on the same hard disk.
Also no team work, everyone worked on their own little project.
No testing/test servers, nothing.
I'm no longer working there after the supervisor threatened me to work free overtime or kick me out.
I really didn't expect a company being that full of shit.
>>53963502
i've never interviewed at a company that had 1 interview round. there's always a technical interview and always a non-technical interview.
usually there are several technical interviews, and they come before the non-technical interview, but companies are all over the place. there are no definitive best practices.
>>53963518
the overtime thing sounds like a labor law violation. unless this was you and some friends in high school playing some weird game of house/startup/whatever, you probably have a legal case.
>>53963430
Are you applying for an internship or full time position? It's a lot easier to get your foot in the door via an internship and then convert to full time for after you graduate. Fewer interviews, and they focus mainly on data structures, algorithms, programming ability. Plus they will be able to factor in your internship feedback. If you have no internship work with them you'll have a battery of interviews lasting all days covering a wider variety of topics because they won't have the interview feedback to look at.
I went the internship -> second internship -> full time route. When I applied I had no extracurriculars or prior internships on my resume, but a really good GPA (not just for CS, but for everything). Since I was only a sophomore they probably understood that I didn't have any other internships under my belt. Still, I felt they may have rolled the dice on me when they called me for the interview since GPA and good school were the only things I had going for me. Luckily I had solid knowledge of the aforementioned CS topics and was able to do well in the interview.
Since you do research and have had a few internships you should be in pretty decent shape to get an internship interview. And from there, like I said, going to full time will be easier.
If you're out of internships and you're looking for a full time gig, well you don't HAVE to have a Google internship to get a Google full time job, but if you don't you will most likely need another big name on your resume. e.g. if you had a Facebook internship you will probably get a callback when applying for a Google full time position.
>>53963474
>>53963502
I hate this shit.
I'm not a coder, but I work in another specialized field where all of the good jobs are at big corps. I've had multiple occasions where the head of the department that's relevant to what I do has tried to recruit me after seeing my work, only for me to go and interview and have their HR people shoot me down because I don't have the right degree.
It's fucking bullshit, and after too many times seeing it happen, I actually quit my job and I'm now a full time student trying to grind a degree out as fast as possible.
>>53963562
Fuck. Should I delay graduation by a semester to try and get the internship? I graduate next may, and I already have an internship this summer.
>>53963518
>I took the job anyway because I needed the experience.
what value could that experience possibly offer you? how long could you possibly expect to stay there?
you would almost certainly lose more than anything you could gain at any company if your tenure was <6 months - it just raises too many questions from future employers. so what could you have hoped to gain from more than 6 months at a place that didn't know what source control was?
if your supervisor threatened you, it also doesn't sound like you're going to get a good letter of recommendation from him. so that's out.
getting experience in how a company should not run is almost infinitely diminishing in usefulness. you don't need examples of bad management; you need positive cases to learn from.
don't ever take a job you know won't benefit you. this sounds like an unmitigated disaster, and the only purpose was to draw a paycheck from some idiots who had more money than sense. and that's fine, but each job like this you take further cements you as that tech worker who works at lost causes. you become just as much a red flag as the companies you work for and the projects you work on.
>coder position
>wants friendly and socially fluid people
>wants people who are good at designing applications and laying out sheets / charts for it
aka we dont wanna pay for an engineer and h&r manager, gtfo
>>53963457
Interviewing for an IT position, I asked what what kind of systems they use as a bit of an open ended question.
Recruiter responded with Windows 2013.
>trashed
>>53963576
>have their HR people shoot me down because I don't have the right degree.
when the contact recruits you, you need to have an upfront conversation with them about you not having a conventional background before they start this shit. HR doesn't need to come into this blind and shoot down your application like this. they can be informed by the recruiter/manager that he wants you despite that, and to put that shortcoming aside.
you need to learn to stand up for yourself and be a competent advocate for your own career. i'm seeing this with the other guy too, who didn't seem to realize that working at a hapless company that zips up its source code every few days offered him nothing career-wise.
stop screwing yourselves, guys. or at least stop blaming it on external factors. you know you don't have the right degree; HR shouldn't start the process at all unless everyone's on the same page about it not being a problem, and it's on you to bring that up because you're the one who knows this might be a problem. it's your damn life. own that responsibility.
>>53963603
Delaying graduation might do more harm than good. It might be hard to explain?
If you want to apply for full-time just make sure you apply early. Top companies tend to lock in their hires early. I got my offer in October to start after I graduated the following June. It was a nice feeling being able to coast through my last two semesters knowing the job was already locked in.
>>53963649
Fucking this
>>53963649
also, it might seem like backroom dealing or whatever to ask for special treatment from HR from the guy that recruits you, and that might make you feel like it's unethical or something.
it most definitely IS backroom dealing, and by some measures it sure as fuck IS unethical.
but you're a special case, and if your principles allow you to believe that you deserve to be employed despite not having the right degree, then you have to accept that you'll need to backchannel this shit a bit to get the job you want.
if you have ethical qualms or other misgivings about greasing the wheels like this, then feel free to go back to school and do everything by the book, getting a degree in the field that HR says they need. but we both know that's a waste of your time, or you wouldn't even be seeking this job given the unorthodox background.
>>53957807
>anti-harassment policy:
>be aware of your privilege
>try to avoid mansplaining
>>53963812
Yeah, I get what you're saying.
I have a bullshit degree from a bullshit school, so might as well have no degree at all, and that's why I'm back in college.
My field is a bit of an unusual one, though, and there's a ton of crossover between the one I was originally in and the one I'm in now. It's not hard for me to find work as it currently stands, it's just that without the right degree, I'm stuck working insane hours and not making as much as I'd like to. Right now I'm actually doing outsourced work for the same companies I'd like to work internally for, and that's actually how I've made my contacts, but those companies are big entities with HR departments that don't really understand our little niche, and many of my colleagues have faced exactly this issue as well.
>>53964169
What is your field?
>>53957807
> 'rockstar'
> asking for weird technology combinations all at once, e.g. x years of java, z years of .net
> 'passion'
> 'meetups'
> you must rate yourself between a 1 and a 10 in...
> heavy on the sales talk
>must be outgoing and social
fuck you
>>53964342
I do specialty PR/MR, mostly for companies that provide high-end mechanical/electronics stuff, i.e. motorsports, aerospace, defense, etc. I used to be a journalist covering the same industries, especially automotive/motorsports.
It's actually a pretty cool niche to be in, because most PR people are liberal arts fucks that want to go promote bands and shit like that and don't have a clue about the stuff I work with, but it sucks trying to land a really nice position because it means dealing with the autistic HR departments of monster companies where the PR department is a tiny side thing and HR has no clue how it works.
>specific degree requirements for programming positions
>design or photoshop mentioned in the application for programming positions
>not a tech company
Diversity
>Agile
>Scrum
Words that so many companies use, but don't actually understand what they mean.
>>53963182
>What's wrong with agile?
it became something to be sold at conferences and to be certified in.
>>53963456
>Mastery of C + Bachelor in CS
>excellent oral communication skills/ teamer
choose one
>>53963456
yeah whoever wrote this list actually has problems to solve. what they really need is someone to help them get their shit together
>>53963850
how widespread is this, and what area are you in, both professionally and geographically?
>>53963850
>>53966179
I mean, I wouldn't be surprised to see this in SF (and even more in Oakland/Berkeley) - just wondering how far it's gone.
>>53963182
because 99% of the time it is done wrong and managers use it to micromanage tech they obviously don't understand.
case in point: >>53963336
>>53963474
it's a big red flag if you're interviewer is HR.
unless you *want* to work at some megacorp and be a cog in the machine. this isn't actually a bad thing as long as you are progressing yourself on your own time or getting your work done quick (add 3 classes to fulfill megacorp productivity lol!) and work on your own project on company time.
but if you actually want to work somewhere that you have input, are heard, and actually meaningfully contribute to anything then, yeah, big red flag
>>53966237
>it's a big red flag if you're interviewer is HR.
This guy I know told a story about that guy he knows... basically he'd go to an interview with HR in a big company
now, HRs are mostly single young women
so he'd seduce her, fuck her, she'd pull him in the company the best she can, he'd get hired (all the while fucking her)
in time, the people actually doing the job would finally get fed up with him and kick him out
then he'd go to the next company
Moscow is a big city, and since all processes are fairly slow in big cos, each cycle would take a few months to a year+...
so, yeah
also an option, if you're into this kinda stuff
(and, being here on /g/ I'm POSITIVE you are)
>no degree requirement
Pretty much this
Usually it is then a small start-up company run by idiots
>>53966311
yeah people make a living off job switching from megacorp to megacorp specifically because they are slow AND hire not based on any merits but because of buzzwords (all HR can understand).
it's one of the reasons why people say the best payraise comes when you get a job somewhere else
>>53957807
Any of those pointless management philosophies really. High Quality Code™ requires time.
Oh and angularJS in particular. If you find a company that uses this, get the fuck out of there.
>>53966339
Woudldn't a megacorp-hopping person's job history just look suspicious?
>>53966374
not if you can _convince_ an HR manager it wouldn't!
>>53966374
you don't need to include every job you've ever worked in your cv/resume. also it's easy to buzzword yourself out of this predicament.
>i realized being a team player is really better than doing the solo stuff at my job job
>i've wanted to pivot my career for a while and just realized i'd be the perfect fit for your team
>>53966374
No, the opposite. Groupthink works for HR departments because they're made of women, so they value what other HR departments think.
And so basically if candidate A has managed to get hired by that many companies the reason is that it's because they're desirable.
You need to learn how to think like a woman.
>>53963456
>ability to navigate complex makefiles
>>53963182
>What's wrong with agile?
Nothing.
OP is just mad he didn't get the job.
Working in an agile team is so much nicer than working under a top-down hierarchy.
>>53966412
PUA Meets Career Coaching: /G/ Edition
>o i am laffin
Requires OOP
Especially Java
>>53966525
what do you think would be better for a large project?
>>53966599
OOP is used as the solution to every single problem, even when it doesn't fit.
Also most of the OOP buzzwords that are used to sell it never happen in big projects.
>>53957807
>fun and relaxed environment
>we have gym and arcade games
>>53963456
>clearcase
Fucking kill me, I'm sick of VOB's and this shit.
I work for a large enterprise who is moving all CC code to Git (Atlassian BitBucket Server).
All of the teams store Binary files in their VOB's and expect us to carry their legacy over. Which we won't. The amount of times I've said "Your code is versioned, if you need an older version of your own code then checkout an older version and build it. You don't need to keep pre-compiled versions of it for eternity." is unreal.
>>53966460
Servant-leadership ftw
>every single time I look at jobs listings
>no idea how i will ever get a job when i graduate
i don't know any of this stuff
i don't have experience
should I just kill myself ?
>>53966710
apply for internships
work on some side project of your own
try Google Summer of Code
try contributing to some opensource project, especially if it's something you're using often
talk to career counselor or whatever it is you have there
don't despair
>>53966710
that is, assuming you're Glorious STEM master race
if you're some finna African-American or Gender Studies graduate, you better learn sucking dicks
now THAT is a skill that'd never become useless
>>53966710
Take some courses which aren't offered by your school/college/university/whatever like ITIL or an Agile Project Management training course.
Software development isn't everything, it's knowing how to talk to business people and deal with being in an office evnironment.
Not to forget all the buzzwords you gotta get your head around (so that you know what upper management is trying to force on you)
>>53966778
i don't even like programming
>>53963390
Forcing an agile activity like stand ups is inherently not-agile. People need to realise agile isn't a set methodology. If you try really hard to stick to agile, you're not being agile.
The best teams I've worked with all apply the key tenets of the agile manifesto (collaboration, working product over documentation, relationships over governance etc), without being told to.
I'll stop now, I could go on for days.
>>53963850
https://engineering.twitter.com/opensource/code-of-conduct
http://typelevel.org/conduct
>This CoC was adapted from haskellnow.org, which is inspired from Geek Feminism.
top fucking kek
>>53963456
>proficiency with the Linux posix API
>posix
>not POSIX
>mastery of C
Fkn hell
>>53957807
>has diversity hiring policies
>hires women
>>53964486
>5 years Embedded Linux development experience
>Experience in the development of carrier grade software
They aren't actually planning on finding someone to fill this position, right?
>>53967399
seems interesting but i don't think they would find anyone cheaper than $180K/year
>>53966826
ITIL is a meme. But if you want to go corporate, people lap it up. That's what my ITIL course instructor told me, and he literally wrote the book on ITIL.
>>53967547
Oh I agree entirely, but putting it on the CV makes it look like you know what you're doing.
Before I retired, I consulted for a bit. I shoot down a lot of hopeful HR recruiters who have no idea what they're even asking.
Sometimes I get actual invites/approaches from engineer/management-level staff. I've been known to send in a friend to scout.
Recent example, naming no names:
>invited to security talk; "oh, sorry, can't make it, but I have a friend who's interested in that field"
>and who owes me a favour or ten
>reception area literally looks like a reception class; beanbags, blocks, sticklebricks
>company full of (tall) brogrammers
>all the other guests at meeting are young naïve uni undergrads, waxing lyrical about hackathons, blockchains, devops, and other buzzwords
>friend suspected this, so dressed in an expensive suit for contrast and lulz
>three or four clueful oldschool beards in the room, who recognised kindred spirits
>they're just happy they found somewhere with lots of money where they can make at least some positive difference to what's around them
>however they're not very keen on the open-plan office management insists on
>good chats with beards, apparently; friend points out security issues they can't easily fix, but what can you do
>suggests some other ideas, they were already working on a couple
>all the female staff in the room work for HR/"hospitality" - sigh
>they'd really like some help with security
>no shit, sherlock: have you tried moving slowly, and not breaking things?
They're lovely, I'm sure, but I retired to escape that kind of thing (and procrastinate at my own pace!).
>>53967547
ITIL is what hell looks like.
But most companies never do it properly, so it's used for stalling actual work.
>>53967782
That's pretty much the same for all business approved certifications, I have like 8 ISEB certs which mean fucking nothing, but are basically a free pass to any corporate IT role.
>>53968182
Pretty much the same with all industry accepted methodologies. It's easy to implement them (if you know what you're doing) but even I, an already corporate sellout consultant, don't like money enough for that.
>>53958321
Kek cause you described Zappos to the letter... including the ping pong table.
You left out a detail though
>departments have stocked bar and beer in the fridge so you're too drunk to stand up for your rights.
>no free hookers at the office
>>53958321
/thread
>>53966778
nope, you cannot do any of these things because you do not have working experience
Gran presidente
>"X (usually a very vague noun) is looking for fullstack javascript ninjas"
>"Perks include beer on tap, weekly handjobs from the CEO, free yoga classes, in-house beard barber and bi-monthly pizza parties"
>facing consumers on products developed
i.e. level 2/3 support lmao
>>53966710
don't worry
i got interviews, but screwed up the technical questions anyway
>>53962418
seriously though, if someone claimed to read the OP it would be one way or the other. if they read the OP, definitely a good sign - reading the OP is a surprisingly good signal that someone can go to a totally different topic/forum than the one they currently reply to, and just that they're capable of adapting. reading the OP and other pre-september customs are just weird to wrap your head around if you come from a post-september internet or society in general. reading the OP really fucks with a lot of the fundamentals you might have assumed about the discussion at hand, hence it's a good signal if someone can really do it.
if someone's lying (like they saw the OP but didn't read it) then obviously that's a bad sign.
