Python
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You are currently reading a thread in /g/ - Technology
What do you guys think about Python?
>>53924130
i like it
It's a programming language and it's used in my fapgauntlet.exe that's all i know
>>53924130
its a snek
>>53924143
What have you used it for?
>>53924167
scripts, testing something quick, and small web shit
numpy and scipy are great
>>53924130
As for CPython: It's a good example of how not to implement an interpreter and when not to implement an interpreter.
As for the language: Unfortunately it's designed for interpreters, not for AOT compilation. Given most feggits try to make whole applications in it, that's far from ideal.
pretty neat for anything that isn't super performance concerning
I would wish they'd use C style brackets instead of fucking INDENTING but I guess you can't have your cake and eat it
>>53924276
I want to get more into programming. I just know lua and some python. What would you recommend?
too slow
>>53924334
Same
>>53924341
It doesn't matter. Simply use what fits your use case best.
And I mean not from the 5 tool sized tool box faggot pretending good programmers choose, but really from all. Even if that takes years of research.
>>53924341
don't straight up jump to C (I did that mistake) Instead choose somewhere inbetween like java, C#, scala, go etc
>>53924381
What kinds of things can I use C# for?
>>53924423
It's sort of easier to write in and does an amount of babbying around memory management etc and has alot of libraries written in it, also micro and soft open sourced alot of things lately
>>53924423
Normal software.
>>53924381
>don't straight up jump to C (I did that mistake)
Why would that be a mistake?
It's gud
>>53924423
Unity? For game dev?
>>53924341
learn C/C++
Lua is like a prettier version of C/C++ You will miss some of its features.
Everyone should learn C and x86 Assembly. C++ is the more modern one though. You can just learn that.
>>53924445
you'll see when you get some programming experience
>>53924446
xamarin etc, lots of stuff
>>53924444
I didn't know if it's something I can use as a "main" programming language. I haven't looked into it so much.
>>53924478
You can, but then you really don't want something like a "main" programming language, as that would imply one or two "main" eco systems and that's quite limiting.
>>53924474
>you'll see when you get some programming experience
I think you will when you realize that your fundamentals are shit because you've been programming in abstractions.
>>53924348
Is that using numpy?
I imagine it's Cuda C> Fortran > JULIA> Java/R> Ada?
>>53924423
Many things. Game development with Unity, Desktop Applications, Windows Services, Console Applications, Mobile Apps, Websites, and Web Applications.I work with it professionally and I couldn't be happier.
>>53924445
It's not. C is the best first language to learn, but it's also fairly difficult versus slow modern faggotry and scripting languages.
The main reason is you directly allocate memory and use pointers which are probably responsible for about 95% of all bugs in C code. In other languages they do that for you automatically.
>>53924533
http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/python.html
>>53924560
Hmm, I'll give it a try. Any programs you recommend writing the code in?
>>53924592
but what implementation/tools did they use for n-body?
>>53924560
Mobile apps? Enlighten me. Last I checked that was Java and Swift. Except MS.
Unless you mean Unity and Xamarin. Xamarin is pure shit for iOS so you may as well just use Java and swift since it's not really cross platform.
>>53924530
because C elements are concrete non-abstractions right? lmao
>>53924577
the reason I pointed out as a mistake for beginner/intermediate users is because the work you need to do to handle memory management / produce the abstractions necessary for your programming will kill your output and curb motivation, it's a great language for OSDEV and hardware related programming in my experience but once you come more to the surface and the application level it's a nightmare to work with.
>>53924592
C wins again baby
How long did it take you guys to learn C#?
>>53924690
I went from C to C++ then to C#, and for me it took about 3 days to start doing something in it, simple really
>>53924592
>http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/python.html
IDK, python is p good for regex if you're using the right libraries. Slightly skeptical.
I'm still wondering if they were even using numpy for n-body. I expect it to be markedly slower than Fortran/C etc but I think matlab is faster than that
>>53924130
>What do you guys think about Python?
It's a decent language overall, and it's downright fantastic for small scripts and filters and shit.
>>53924341
>What would you recommend?
What do you want to do?
>>53924577
>C is the best first language to learn,
This is terrible advice. A first language should be focused around actually programing the desired tasks, not implementing the structure underneath.
>>53924635
https://github.com/nbraud/benchmarksgame/tree/master/bench/nbody
>>53924679
Did that honestly surprise you? And Rust is even faster than C on some levels
>>53924470
Why should people learn assembly?
>>53924130
I like it but it's sadly losing some of the simplicity that made it nice to work with. For example maps and filters don't return lists anymore but map and filter objects to be converted or iterated over, and you have some minor things. For example:
`open(path,'r').readlines()` doesn't remove the newline chars, instead you have to use: `open(path,'r').read().splitlines()`
What used to be `filter(f,items)` is now list(filter(f,items))
If you ask me, I'd try an even more minimalist syntax, Haskell style, and don't overcomplicate filters and such.
>>53924710
So C# right?
>>53924592
>Python3 benchmarks
Python3 is much slower than Python2, which is the better python version
>>53924710
>C is the boogie man underneath the hood and has nothing to do with problem solving or "programming tasks", whatever the hell that means
I'm guessing you haven't used C much.
>>53924726
So you become somewhat compotent
>>53924726
In order to understand how things are done underneath. I think it's very important, but mostly will disagree, saying that's a waste of time.
So, if you care about optimization or machine arch., you should learn it.
>>53924130
it's not Node.js
>>53924690
You may as well learn Java and C# at the same time. They're extremely similar. Before any of you neckbeards jumps in to point out differences A, B, C, yes I know all about them. I didn't say identical, I said similar.
>>53924130
A great glu language for machine learning & scientific computing.
>>53924749
I would recommend Javascript. Arguably the most used and important language at the moment.
My work is primarily in Python... I like it. It's aesthetically pleasing, easy to write in, and has a lot of really good libraries. You definitely have to consider your use case before using it, though, as programs that have really tight loops (like >>53924348) run retardedly slow. But as the source for that image says (>>53924592), Python is good for a lot of use cases.
I think its performance issues are overplayed. It's definitely something to keep in mind, but as Fred Brooks says, there is no silver bullet... every programming language has its issues.
>>53924770
Java is too designated tho
>>53924790
He should pick up some node too then, sockets async parsers etc are all fun to play with and will grow his thirst for coding
>>53924726
Optimizing loops. Memory management. Stack overflows? e.g. Pretty much every error and bug you'll ever get. It's the theoretically underpinnings of the whole fucking discipline.
This is why I think people need to learn C first.
>>53924764
As a computer engineer or technician, I think it would useful.
As a programmer, I don't think it's necessary. Learning C is good for seeing how a language interacts with hardware in a readable, manageable format; thus you can focus on problem solving while still learning low level concepts.
Learning assembly would be the closest thing to reinventing the wheel; as we can use compilers to create assembly language as it is. Plus, provided that one learns C in-depth, I don't think much more will be learnt from learning assembly.
>>53924813
Why can't a compiler be rewritten or written from scratch to optimise loops and generally keep assembly language as pristine as possible?
>>53924829
Among other reasons, there may not be enough information in the higher level programming language.
>>53924709
>I'm still wondering if they were even using numpy for n-body.
Of course they weren't. Why would you use an external, compiled, library in a language benchmark?
>>53924726
>Why should people learn assembly?
If they're interested in hardware, or directly controlling hardware. From a software perspective there's nothing interesting about it.
>>53924749
What do you want to do?
There's a shitload of languages out there, asking for recommendations without a context is just pointless.
>>53924750
>Python2 is the better python version
It really, REALLY, isn't.
>>53924753
>C is the boogie man underneath the hood and has nothing to do with problem solving or "programming tasks", whatever the hell that means
You entirely missed my point.
The tasks C requires you to do to write a program are no more "fundamental" or "real" than the tasks Python requires.
It's simply a very low level language (by modern stands), that's all.
>>53924670
C is fast. If you're doing computations, there's that, Fortran and more recently, R. Fortran is faster on some double precision. C has better syntax than Fortran. R is pretty fast and has good libraries. It has wacky syntax but is still pretty easy to use.
C is a hobbyist language, performance is irrelevant for 99.9% of use cases in the real world.
>>53924856
I just want to make small games, programs, gui's stuff like that. I just need a starting point.
I use Python at work. Coming from a background of C game dev, I was easily attached to Python, its reflective properties are a welcome feature, as well as small things like decorators, closures and generators. It's much more expressive, has a vast, useful stdlib, and an even vaster set of user-made packages. If you need to get work done and something implemented and it's not a game or graphics programming, Python is probably the best tool you can use. Dynamic typing isn't as bad as I thought it would be unless you're using a framework wrong and a colleague is passing shit around carelessly
>>53924130
Python is a very effective language to code in if you want to get a job done in the shortest amount of time. I use it for prototyping, formatting data to be uploaded into a DB, web-scraping, etc. If I need speed, I write in C++, but those applications are few and far between. Look at it this way, your time costs money (or at least it should), the computers time is almost free, and it's happy to run overnight.
Python has a huge ecosystem, which means that it's really easy to get help and that there are free tools galore. Python is also built into a lot of applications as a scripting language
>>53924877
shut the fuck up, anon. Go fap to Trashdroid OS.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirth%27s_law
>>53924631
>
Go ahead and download Visual Studio. Microsoft offers it for free now and it is the best IDE for developing anything in C#.
https://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/products/visual-studio-community-vs.aspx
>>53924877
quantitative finance and algorithmic trading is all written in C/C++. They don't even bother with BS like GUIs
>>53924883
RenPy, an idea, and a source of graphics.
>>53924945
>he posts wikipedia links on 4chan
lmao, next this guy will link dunning-kruger
>>53924649
Yeah Xamarin is what I'm referring to. Its not that bad if you can manage to use the Portable Class Libraries across all platforms. In my experience you usually see around 70% code re-usability which isn't bad if you are not going pure native.
>>53924710
>because C elements are concrete non-abstractions right? lmao
A lot less than C#. You learn more.
>This is terrible advice.
Wrong. I'm not him, and I can affirm it's good advice if the criteria here is learning to be a skilled programmer. The only reason some people despute it at all is because they don't want to feel inferior for dabbling in Ruby or Java and never bothering to learn how things actually work.
>A first language should be focused around actually programing the desired tasks, not implementing the structure underneath
By that logic using a WYSIWYG point and click to design applications is purest form of programming.
>>53924953
quantitative finance and algorithmic trading don't make up more than .1% of the world's code
>>53924883
If you already know basic Python, I'd recommend you just get good with that.
>>53924883
Get Visual Studio Express (it's Free). Pick up Visual C++ or C#
If you've never done any coding, try scripting with Lua and making mods for videogames you play. There's a great book for WoW on it (applies to any game w/lua tho)
>>53924856
>The tasks C requires you to do to write a program are no more "fundamental" or "real" than the tasks Python requires.
LOL
>>53924130
>What do you guys think about Python?
I'm only interested in writing Python code because of pypy. If pypy didn't exist I would probably be using ruby or some lisp variant.
Nice for little utility scripts. Haven't really used it beyond that.
>>53924974
Keep telling yourself that, while I count my capital gains
Hobbyist coding, lol
I make enough money trading to shitpost on 4chan all day. U mad? That's the glory of C/C++
>>53925013
No you don't
>>53925013
lmao u don't
>>53924973
Accurately describing the desired task is the purest form of programming. Everything else is just obstacles on the road.
I can read it but I can't and don't write it
>>53925002
>002 â–¶
>>>53924130 (OP)
Python is great for language stuff because of the NLTK scrapy and other libraries, too
Out of the box it's slow, but it has its uses. It's also a p good first language.
Why use anything else?
Haskellcucks need not apply
>>53925013
Love how gtards argue over the programming language. Language is just a tool, its your understanding of the concepts that really matter, any real Software Engineer will agree with that statement.
>>53924991
>LOL
Mind going into a bit more detail?
>>53925039
>Software Engineer
Yeah, all that UML shite and methodologies really make you a great programmer :^)
>>53925039
It's not just the understanding of concepts, but you've definitely got a point. What's also massively important is the ecosystem, the libraries and frameworks available because they can easily change your workflow and programming understanding working through someone else's API
>>53924130
It's a cute multi-paradigm language with intuitive syntax and some very nice packages. I use it for scripting and computation (with numpy/scipy of course), but it's pretty versatile. The only thing that limits it really is the speed if you don't have compiled packages that will take care of the intensive parts for you.
>>53925039
>its your understanding of the concepts that really matter,
If the only language you know is Python then you don't understand concepts.
>>53925033
>Accurately describing the desired task is the purest form of programming
Which is the opposite of what you do when you program in Python because the interpreter does everything for you.
>>53925031
Believe what you like
FYI, to anyone who doesn't want to be a poorfag. Here's my good deed for the week, some books on the stock market, options and basic financial engineering
https://www.sendspace.com/file/69fmg5
>>53925076
UML's are for faggots. I write my code in binary. BINARY
>>53925076
Lol UMLs, sounds like you are still in school. I haven't done a UML since my sophomore year in college.
>>53925173
>925173â–¶
>>>53925076
Do people actually do these anywhere?
>>53925145
You definitely don't, it just gets more obvious
>>53925013
>>53925145
Maximum shitposting
>>53924130
I use it every day at work. It's not half bad for automated testing.
>>53925193
Sure fgt, recommend a better FE intro than Stefanica
I'm assuming not everyone will get to the FE part so I have the Zweig edited Graham and McMillan. If you know any better books (barring Natenberg is better than McMillan and Greenwald over Graham, but they're the same basically), enlighten us all.
>>53925127
>>Accurately describing the desired task is the purest form of programming
>Which is the opposite of what you do when you program in Python because the interpreter does everything for you.
Uh, what?
Having an interpreter than handles implementation details for you makes the description more pure, not less. The entire point of languages like Python is they allow the programmer to focus much more specifically on solving the problem at hand.
Consider two extreme cases, an assembly program or a clearly written English description of a task.
Almost all of the ASM program will be describing low-level details needed to get a computer even remotely near to manipulating whatever the task is made of. The English description will be very brief, because it can rely on a huge body of shared concepts and understanding.
>>53925193
*crickets chirping*
So where's your suggestion for an FE intro bro?
>>53925232
>>53925249
Mate, just because you know the names of books doesn't mean shit lmao
>>53925092
Yes very good point I agree with that. Didn't mean to come off as abrasive. It just seems like a lot of people on /g/ push learning a specific language just because its their personal preference, and more often then not its some obscure language that you really don't see any jobs for. Personally I don't care what the language is, for the most part its just syntax at the end of the day, unless you are working with very low level stuff so you are required to work more directly with memory. Imo having a strong understanding of programming concepts, design patterns, N-Tier Architecture, excellent problem solving skills, understanding test driven development, being a team player, and having strong soft skills are the key to being a successful software engineer.
>>53925251
Sure. Just like I thought, you have no idea what I'm talking about.
I made some money here and there, and I just try to help some poorfags on 4chan. How is that unbelievable?
You hurt my feelings. I'm wounded.
>>53925281
>I made some money here and there
No you didn't lmao
>>53925281
lmao mate stop trying
>>53924470
Are you me?
>>53925187
Thats what I'm saying lol. I've seen Wireframing, Comps, Story Boarding, and User Stories but I've never seen UMLs in a professional setting based on my own experience. I have only been required to do UMLs in school and thats just because it was part of our assignments that we were required to turn in when we started learning Java. Seems kinda pointless to me, I can't imagine designing a UML for complex functionality, especially when it comes to an application that is N-Tier style, can you image creating UMLs for all of your repositories, services, and then all of your controllers. I could probably have 50% of the code written at that point. I've heard UMLs are used at IBM according to a friend who worked there right out of school but that was back in 2010 so who knows what they are doing now.
>>53925311
Like I said, believe what you like, dear.
If anons want to learn some things, they can unzip that file and start with Graham and have the basics of securities analysis down in a week or two. McMillan takes longer. Stefanica is difficult, and most people will close the book about 2 pages in, but that's FE. Then you get an algorithmic trading book and you're in business.
If people prefer to believe I'm a charlatan that's fine, but seeing as how you can't seem to give any evidence to the contrary that I'm not engaged in what I say I am other than, "No, you!" well that explains the opposition.
You should have just asked me mathematical specifics on stochastatic calculus or monte carlo or something, no one ever remembers specifics of any of that. And I don't think anyone really quite understands Black-Scholes. But then again you're not in-field or you'd know that, right?
>>53925279
>abrasive
Not at all, other than the ecosystem thing, we pretty much share the same stance on what programming languages are and what they mean. I only add that because, syntax aside, even obscure languages can interact with compiled libraries written in other languages, and unless you're a huge company that has the time and resources to work with both, professional development is not as simple as just using a language and the tools in its ecosystem.
I agree on your points about being a successful software engineer. I had no idea how useful TDD would be, but I've moved from 1 team/project where the code was fully tested along the way to more agile projects where testing is minimal, and I've spent more time fixing issues, which doesn't really save time.
>>53925399
Dude just stop trying.
>>53925347
If you like Lua, I like you. You are good ppl.
>>53925399
More attempts at trying to get people to believe you're a successful trader because you've read some books and picked up some entry-level ideas about FE lmao
> lacks documentation
> is shit
>>53925419
Lua was fun. It was my 2nd language but c++ us my favorite at the moment
>>53924866
Raw R is literally never faster than python. And, its very naive lazy function implementation copies a ton of unnecessary data around, since things often accidentally get evaluated within the wrong closure.
R is a cluster fuck and is literally everything wrong with open source statistical software.
>>53925399
Holy shit just leave.
Fuck, even if you WERE telling the truth it's still completely unrelated to this thread.
Go.
>>53925414
Look darling, I know in some god-forsaken flyover state where people, probably don't do this, or wear designer clothes, or have broadband, but in more educated places and in areas around schools with physics programs it's not uncommon, kind of like manufacturing moonshine, inbreeding, rodeo clowns, or enlisting in the military isn't uncommon where you live.
>>53925440
R does have good libraries though
>>53925470
>you will never dance around your lies this much
This is some serious dedication on your part
>>53925403
I agree fully on the ecosystem part, especially when it comes to web development. There is definitely a learning curve when it comes to learning a new stack, especially if you are the type of developer who works from the data layer all the way to the frontend. In my experience you usually have to understand Database, ORMs if you are using one if not stored procs, repositories, services, dependency injection(if you are using it), some MVC framework, client side technologies like JS/jQuery/TypeScript etc, and then HTML, CSS/LESS/SASS. I guess you could throw in some other client side frameworks in there as well since you may use KnockoutJS, AngularJS, ReactJS, etc. On top of that you may also use different things for build tasks such as Gulp or Grunt. I'd argue Web Development is not as pleb tier as some claim it to be but thats just my opinion.
>>53924130
I avoid it like it's poison.
My least favourite programming language.
>>53925492
Why?
>>53925470
You're anonymous, you realize you can just drop this.
>>53925500
I know, but it was just starting to get fun. I was going to go in a Liberace direction on it.
I really do trade, btw. It's really not that hard or uncommon.
But anyway, I was just pointing out that C/C++ is useful in some things, like algorithmic trading.
Moving along....
>>53925399
You don't make money here and there lol
>>53925530
But you don't trade or make money from anything lmao
>>53925496
I think it's one of those ineffable hatred. Everyone has one. Car guys have some specific car they hate, movie guys have some specific actor they'd stab, and I have my despised programming language.
I can give reasons but it'd be seen different through another's eyes.
>>53925573
I know that feel.
Does Python look like a poser mall-loitering prick in skinny jeans with a long fringe to you?
>>53925573
>I think it's one of those ineffable hatred. Everyone has one.
Fair enough.
>>53925491
It certainly isn't as pleb tier and I can understand the pay rate of full stack devs. I do Python/Django and it's pretty much as you say, although I've used less HTML/CSS/JS than a typical full stack dev since the new projects involve modifying an existing base project for different clients, so it's easy to see your point. Sounds like you've done web dev professionally too?
>>53925530
lmao still dancing
>>53925590
>Does Python look like a poser mall-loitering prick in skinny jeans with a long fringe to you?
Python looks like some European faggot who comes to America to tell us how we're primitive and how they're better. Not even European! Northern European pretension.
WELL YOU KNOW WHAT! WE SAVED YOUR ASSES IN BOTH WORLD WARS!
>>53925600
What's yours?
>>53925606
Oh nice how is Django? I've heard its a good framework but never worked with it myself. Yeah I currently work with ASP.NET MVC, ASP.NET Web API, C#, JavaScript, jQuery, TypeScript, and KnockoutJS. I don't do much HTML/CSS but I do know some LESS and SASS but I'm certainly not a designer by any means.
>>53925547
While I was lying about the FE part. I've read the Stefanica, but I'll be fucked if I understand more than half of it. Some of it was useful in understanding some exotics. I have done some other types of algorithmic trading on occasion.
Nowadays, I'm primarily in real money and my portfolio is mostly passive. I make @20% year. I rely mostly on securities analysis and technicals.
TBQH, not to be a dick about it but I still probably make more money than you do working, while shitposting on 4chan,
>>53925616
I would so love to make a programming language named "LIBERACE". I fucking love that guy.
c and python are great together
python is written in c, which means if you're comfortable with c it's very easy to extend python and write your own extensions with custom types etc for when you require higher performance
and the ctypes module makes it easy to use any existing c library in python without having to write an extension
HAHAHA TAKE A LOOK AT WHO'S TANKING!
>>53925637
>What's yours?
I'm worried it might be C++. I'd really like to be comfortable with it, because it's a language with a shitload of use in interesting places, but I just can't seem to learn it.
It's not just that I'm mentally stuck on Python either. I'm enjoying Rust, and I play around with a bunch of other languages like Forth. But every time I start reading a book on C++ it's like jamming pencils into my eyes. Everything seems backwards, or just misplaced, and none of it ever seems reasonable.
>>53924147
Dare I ask, Anon?
>>53925685
>Everything seems backwards, or just misplaced, and none of it ever seems reasonable.
Ah. Java was the first language I learned. Then I learned C. Woo. Getting the output right was astonishing to me. But I learned, and I learned well.
These days Java and C are my primary languages. Couldn't be happier.
My point, as if I made one, is that if you have the will to learn you will learn. If not, eh. No biggie. You should be happy. With that being said, learn more languages. Preferably of a lower level.
Also, isn't Rust influenced by C++?
>>53924157
KEK
>>53925639
Django is definitely a very well-thought out framework. It would take me a while to go through what makes it good, but general workflow-wise, it separates the layers quite well, providing each with a huge set of libraries, the handling of requests is very versatile, and customizable template tags and filters make processing HTML based on other layers almost seamless.
Additionally, you have python packages at your disposal which are vast. I'm not sure if C# has something like that, or if .NET is similarly huge, but I will say I miss static typing when you're working on less TDD projects because it can get messy quickly.
How is KnockoutJS? I was almost tasked with learning it? And I've briefly skimmed over LESS/SASS, they definitely make it easier to reason about CSS
>>53925733
>Also, isn't Rust influenced by C++?
Yeah. It's nice though.
Actually, I think learning Rust first might be responsible for my dislike of C++.
>With that being said, learn more languages. Preferably of a lower level.
I'm considering look at C at some point. It's interesting in it's own right, and it might be a better direction to approach C++ from.
>>53925779
>I'm considering look at C at some point.
Good idea. It's a classic for a reason and it's still very popular.
I love it
>>53924157
> mfw this made me laugh irrationally
Also I love Python. I have been programming in it for years now and have several popular GitHub repositories for my projects, some (one really) approaching 100 stars. I feel very comfortable and capable with it.
>>53925857
>GitHub
>>53925868
kek :^), you are cute
>>53925887
>use the word retard
>get banned for life
Can't make this up.
Belongs in the trash.
>>53925771
Sounds pretty similar to ASP.NET MVC to be honest. Yeah I guess the equivalent of Python packages in the .NET realm is the Nuget package manager. Its basically just a package manager that is built into Visual Studio that allows you to easily download packages and add them to your current project. So for example if you need a really awesome JSON serializer/deserializer you can download NewtonSoft and add it to your project if you don't want to use the one that is built into the .NET framework. But for the most part the .NET framework has everything you need to get started. Yeah I've done a little bit of Python but the syntax to me is very different then C#, its not bad imo but just not what I'm used to.
As far as KnockoutJS is concerned I really like it, especially with TypeScript since it essentially allows you to write strongly typed JavaScript with many of the same concepts as OOP such as interfaces and classes. I'd say its really good if you need a framework for client side data binding, so you can easily achieve some SPA like capabilities with it. Its definitely not a full blown framework like AngularJS or React but its really good for MVVM type stuff, especially if you don't want to write a ton of JavaScript or jQuery to provide rich client side experiences for you web applications.
>>53925901
I didn't hear about the SJWs invading GitHub, but then again I also don't say retard on it -- it's connected to my real name and I plan to put it on my resume, so I'll try to be on my best behavior.
If you want them to host your content you better play by their rules.
>>53925939
The name of the application was WebM for Retards.
It made converting videos to webms easy.
And then there is the people getting banned for being "mean" to women. It's become some disgusting shitfest where people love the smell of their own farts. I'll have no part and you should have enough self respect to do the same.
>>53925987
Shit that sounds bad, didn't know that.
>>53926003
>tfw my professor makes me use it
>mfw I have to hold back all that I want to say
>using github
Pretty much the least useful online git client, other than browsing for other repos
>>53925640
>I'm primarily in real money
>I still probably make more money than you do working
Lol no you're not and no you don't lmao
>>53925987
>>53926003
While none of that's wrong, it's probably worth noting that /g/ is obsessed with hunting for internet drama.
>>53926095
Yeah I mean, I won't stop using GitHub over it -- still removing that project is RETARDED :^).
>>53926095
Look, private companies can do whatever they want.
But this is dumb and shitty. I can understand banning people for talking about paedophilia or terrorism. I'm not saying a free and open source software platform has to be for free speech. But there's a limit and banning retard is to far. So I try to avoid it.
>>53925901
>can't say retard
>"THIS PLACE IS WORTHLESS"
Found the butthurt inadequate programmer that gets banned from everywhere because he still thinks being edgy is cool.
>>53926109
Please delete your post, that word is offensive and has no place in polite discourse.
>>53926123
Well I do feel inadequate but that does not come into play here.
In actuality, I've always had a dislike for GitHub so once this came out I jumped on it.
There's my bias. Still, I'm right.
>>53924130
This text does more or less describe what I think about Python.
http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2014/8/16/the-python-i-would-like-to-see/
It's not my text, I'm rather horrified they didn't fix all of that with Python 3.
>>53926131
suk my snek :^)
>>53926155
GitHub is a place for building a shareable portfolio for professional or at least practical purposes.
If you feel like you should be able to bring your edgy shitposting mentality and demeanour into places where adults are trying to get shit done, you don't deserve to use such resources.
>>53926190
>GitHub is a place for building a shareable portfolio for professional or at least practical purposes.
Get yourself a website.
>you don't deserve to use such resources.
Or I can use one of the numerous other options for Git.
>>53926131
Thanks for the easily ignorable advice, retard.
>>53926255
That wasn't the person you replied to. I appreciated your attempt at humor.
>>53926208
This, to be honest.
Employers shouldn't look into repositories, because you never know under which conditions the code was created.
>>53926269
Thanks, it keeps me going.
>>53926270
And yet employers do
>>53926208
>Get yourself a website
Planning to build a personal one when I finish my current course.
>Or I can use one of the numerous other options for Git
Cool. Use those resources.
>>53926270
So not being able to say "retard" is a restrictive condition for writing code? I think you need to read the thread before making a comment.
Your reply doesn't apply at all to the point that this anon was trying to make.
>>53926318
>Planning to build a personal one when I finish my current course.
Good idea. Course in what?
>Cool. Use those resources.
...o-ok?
>>53926347
Just a general computer science course in a few different languages. Skimming over web dev in a few weeks.
Good for quick scratch pad ideas, validation, testing, small parts of certain projects. For example, connecting to a db in python with pyodbc is delightful imo, and as mentioned above scipy and numpy are very nice.
>>53926293
They then get what they deserve.
That is, incompetent hipster brogrammers with lots of cloned projects and three-line js pretend projects.
>>53926318
>So not being able to say "retard" is a restrictive condition for writing code?
Not necessarily. What I thought about is that GitHub should not be used, referred to, X in enterprise. It's a fucking hobby social network for developers.
>inb4 everycompany is already there
I know a lot companies that host their code there, without local backup and it made me chuckle when they had to take a day off because their server wasn't available.
>>53926400
>They then get what they deserve.
Indeed, a programmer who isn't shit because they've rejected those hipster brogrammers
>>53925939
>SJW
This is a meaningless buzzword used by neckbeards to refer to anything left of Hitler.
>>53926488
I specifically mean the people that create issues about missing code of conducts on bugtrackers of huge projects who have been doing fine or better until then.
>>53926400
Is GitHub still the main place employers look for code portfolios?
I'm not advocating it btw, just generally talking about professionalism. I've heard about the struggles within the company and it doesn't look pretty.
Are there any other good options? Specifically the simplest way of exhibiting source code and software.
>>53925987
>u-u mean I can't be mean to GURLS?
>u mean community sites have rules?
>waaaaah
It's true. /g/ really is full of autistic edgy unemployed people. How many piss bottles do you keep in your room?
>>53926427
No, they get those hipster brogrammers, because if they couldn't tell the simple fact that you don't look at github for portfolios they are to dumb to tell those apart.
Quick request - would pay for the work.
I'm looking to make a bot for Reddit that tracks a single person, and auto-replies to each of their posts with a single message. Apparently it's quite easy, but I'm a babby. So if someone offered to do it and named a price within reason, I'd be more than happy to pay them for the code
>>53926531
Yeah I'm sure heads of programming have only started looking at portfolios this year and don't know what they're getting lmao
>>53926504
You don't. At all. It's not professional.
They have no way of telling shit about it.
Think about it; from papers or online references alone, an employer can realistically only tell if you are axe-crazy or some kind of asshole or extremist. For measuring competence, the only thing that works is a trial period.
>>53926570
I was specifically asking about options, not the implications.
Other than building myself a website, what are good ways to exhibit personal work?
>>53926547
So you think the resulting costs of poor interviewing and placement practices are a joke?
>>53926593
From what I've seen of my current and previous employers, they look at the portfolio when considering you, not just randomly sifting through github profiles. This should have been obvious to you anyway, but you're acting like a goddamn idiot about it anyway.
>>53926609
>From what I've seen of my current and previous employers, they look at the portfolio when considering you, not just randomly sifting through github profiles.
That just means you are a lucky faggot and shouldn't take it for granted.
And so are they that you haven't copy and pasted the code from somebody else into your repositories. Or so they think.
>>53926589
No I would know about.
>>53926676
>No I would know about
What?
>>53926676
>That just means you are a lucky faggot and shouldn't take it for granted.
>And so are they that you haven't copy and pasted the code from somebody else into your repositories. Or so they think.
Yeah you're a goddamn idiot if you think employers take nothing into consideration
>>53925246
>Having an interpreter than handles implementation details for you makes the description more pure, not less.
Wrong. You said "accurately" describing. Python is anything but accurate.
If you type 5/2 in Python you'll get 2, but you'll never know because you don't even declare variable types in it. It's for reasons like this that beginner programmers should steer clear of Python, and actually learn things that teach good fundamentals.
>The entire point of languages like Python is they allow the programmer
Yes. It's a tool intended for programmers. If you just use Python without teaching yourself to program you don't actually know software development.
What are some good and USEFUL python projects?
>>53926739
numpy
scipy
pypy
to start with
>>53926721
>If you type 5/2 in Python you'll get 2, but you'll never know because you don't even declare variable types in it. It's for reasons like this that beginner programmers should steer clear of Python, and actually learn things that teach good fundamentals.
Full retard, it's imitating C so that you're still able to do integer division. Luckily for retards like you, 5/2 is 2.5 in Py3 and they've added // so 5//2 is 2 for your integer division. In C 5/2 is 2, unless you cast either to float or add a decimal point to either number
>>53925640
What do you think about John Hull's Options, Futures & Other Derivatives? I've been slowly reading it since I got a development job in a investment bank.
I like python but the whole v2 vs v3 is out of control and purely the devs fault
What are the benefits to it over phph as a server side language in a database central web app?
I'm learning/building a webapp to save webform data and user created profiles for my business but while watching the tutorials on youtube on PHP, the comment section is blowing up with people saying how deprecated the video is (2011, some 2013). Going on about the security holes and vulnerabilities and what not.
What are your thought gents? Some of the commenters have suggested I build it with python, should I?
>>53926821
>Full retard, it's imitating C so that you're still able to do integer division.
Without telling you why because it's dynamically typed. Anyone using Python as a first language is full retard. It's shooting your learning potential in the foot.
What are some good python books?
>>53927010
C doesn't tell you why either, the constant 5 could be any kind of int for all you care, and if you say look in the docs, the same could be said for python
>>53924157
wrong
there are TWO SNEKS
>>53927036
I think it's a two headed snek.
>>53926896
It's good. McMillan, Hull, Natenberg all good. Which is better is apples and oranges. They're all very dry books though desu. I drank a pot of coffee and took a modafinil the last time I had to review McMillan
>>53927035
It does tell you why, because C actually teaches you about variable types. If the criteria is learning to be a talented programmer than C is the best choice.
>>53927245
C doesn't, reading about C does
Similarly, reading about Python tells you about its variable types
>>53927010
Python is a fantastic first language as long as students are in an environment where they can't mix spaces and tabs. The errors are readable and the syntax minimizes details that could be forgotten. It should never be sold as an end-all be-all and it's not trying to be. The biggest hurdle for first time learners is making them think "Wow, this is useful and I can do this." Having early exposure to success is a good thing, trying to explain what a pointer is and what memory allocation is when someone is trying to store and print a name for the first time is not.
>>53926896
Oh I forgot, after that is the Nassim Taleb book on Greeks and exotics. It's terribly written, has a fair amount of errors, and the guy is an annoying douchebag, but it's still one of the few concrete books on dynamic hedging. Avoid his other books like the plague.
If you want short intros to options there's another book I keep on my kindle sinceres Understanding Options. It's not one of the big three or all that comprehensive but it's the only readable and accurate thing I've seen. Srsly every major options book makes me want to claw out my eyes
>>53927264
>C doesn't, reading about C does
Wrong. C does, because you have to declare variable types for all variables.
Python is dynamically typed. In general no dynamically typed language should be recommended to someone trying to learn about programming. It's the equivalent of trying to learn algebra by typing everything into wolfram alpha.
>Having early exposure to success is a good thing, trying to explain what a pointer is and what memory allocation is when someone is trying to store and print a name for the first time is not.
Knowing those things is the difference between a mediocre coder and a great one.
>>53927459
When you learned math for the first time they didn't ask you to write proofs. Learning is about gradually increasing complexity. Python is a great first step, it isn't the only step. C/C++ is a fine first step as well, C was my first language and I loved it, but it came with hardships that could have been delayed. Learning Python first does not blind you to ever learning memory allocation or realizing that types are a thing.
>>53927661
>When you learned math for the first time they didn't ask you to write proofs
C isn't writing proofs. It's doing algebra. Python is like using Wolfram Alpha to do algebra for you.
Python is fine if you want to do homework fast and never program again. C is what you start with if you actually want to be a good coder. Fundamentals come first.
>>53926721
>If you type 5/2 in Python you'll get 2,
You actually get 2.5.
Python2 had some rough spots.
>Wrong. You said "accurately" describing. Python is anything but accurate.
How the fuck does that forbid writing clear, accurate descriptions?
>>53927459
>Python is dynamically typed. In general no dynamically typed language should be recommended to someone trying to learn about programming.
That's silly.
>Knowing those things is the difference between a mediocre coder and a great one.
No beginner is a great coder.
>>53927710
>Python is like using Wolfram Alpha to do algebra for you.
How?
>Fundamentals come first.
What "fundamentals" is Python missing?
>>53926532
This is going to get you banned within a week.
>>53927710
>what language you start with determines your future programming aptitude
I smell another fag who's salty he fell for the C meme.
>>53927782
>What "fundamentals" is Python missing?
This. Pointer arithmetic and segfaults aren't "fundamentals", they're annoyances and nowadays, unnecessary.
>>53927782
>That's silly.
No, it's not silly. It's literally the basics of programming, and something that Python doesn't teach you.
>How?
Because it's at such a high level that almost everything is done through abstractions.
>How the fuck does that forbid writing clear, accurate descriptions?
Python sacrifices accuracy (and performance) for ease. It guesses for you. The most accurately written code will be the lower level code.
>>53928091
A smell a script kiddie who learned programming with Python and desperately doesn't want to feel inferior. The truth is though that if you learned with Python you don't actually know how to code because Python doesn't teach you how to make smart decisions due to hand holding.
>>53924130
"If it ain't Lisp, it's shit" applies very much here.
That said, Python is far better than most other shit cancerous languages like C#, Rust, Java, and C.
>>53927782
>What "fundamentals" is Python missing?
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/ThePerilsofJavaSchools.html
Starting with Python is kind of like this, but about 5 times worse.
Language is mostly irrelevant. I always laugh when plebs talk about the speed of various implementations of languages.
It doesn't matter if you know C and ASM inside out if you don't have an understanding of algorithmic complexity and proper TAoCP knowledge. I'd wager an educated programmer could write software in Python that runs faster than ASM written by an average /g/ "programmer."
>>53924348
>cpython
>>53924130
One of the best, most flexible languages ever writen if efficiency is not priority.
>>53924130
just werks
>>53928948
>http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/ThePerilsofJavaSchools.html
Did you actually read that article? It's about universities exclusively using Java in CS. It's not relevant at all here.
>>53928892
>Static typing
>It's literally the basics of programming,
No.
No it is not.
>Because it's at such a high level that almost everything is done through abstractions.
Which is why it's such a good introduction to programming. ABSTRACTION is the foundation of good programing. Pointer-juggling and bit-flipping are just one particular means to that end.
>Python sacrifices accuracy for ease
No it doesn't. Any even vaguely competent Python programmer can write code that does exactly what they mean, and nothing else.
Have you even USED Python, or are you just reciting shit off blogs?
>>53928929
>Python doesn't teach you how to make smart decisions due to hand holding.
You're still missing the point:
The kinds of decisions / tasks that Python doesn't ask you to make aren't somehow fundamental to programming - they're just part of the implementation. Not making those decisions doesn't make you further from "pure" programming, just as taking about shapes and colours rather than brushstrokes and paints doesn't take you away from "pure" painting.
I think you're trying to treat programming as if it were just an upwards extension of the hardware on a modern computer, rather than being a subject in of itself.
>>53924130
I think python will be the cause of the next wave of widely spread software bugs and crashes, after C and C++ have fallen out of favor.
The language designers added safety from low-level mistakes, but removed any and all safety from high-level errors.
(You know, like a functioning static type system)
>>53929223
That seems unlikely. Python's not really used in the same dusty, obscure, vital places that languages like C are. AFAIK, most Python code is in small(-ish) scripts that still get regularly read and worked on.
>>53929169
>Did you actually read that article?
Yes I did. It's about how learning programming fundamentals in Java makes for a worse developers. Observe:
>I have never met anyone who can do Scheme, Haskell, and C pointers who can't pick up Java in two days, and create better Java code than people with five years of experience in Java, but try explaining that to the average HR drone.
Python takes this kind of thing and makes it 5 times worse. Python teaches you how to Python, but it's so high level that you don't actually learn ANYTHING about good software engineering habits.
>No. No it is not.
Yes. Yes it is. Data types are some of the fundamentals of programming. Nope. Python is okay for random scripts and occasionally as boilerplate in bigger projects, but for anything important you actually need to know how to write software.
>Which is why it's such a good introduction to programming.
No it's not. It's one of the worst things you could do to a beginner programmer.
>ABSTRACTION is the foundation of good programing.
Not abstraction that hides the actual programming from you.
>The kinds of decisions / tasks that Python doesn't ask you to make aren't somehow fundamental to programming
But they are. Python doesn't teach you how to make smart decisions due to hand holding. People who don't at least give passing consideration to what is being asked of the underlying hardware often write bloated and inefficient code regardless of language. It's also easier for a competent C programmer to move to languages with higher levels of abstraction than the reverse.
>>53929389
>you don't actually learn ANYTHING about good software engineering habits.
>People who don't at least give passing consideration to what is being asked of the underlying hardware often write bloated and inefficient code regardless of language.
This is fine for beginners though. Would you really give a shit about whether a new developer who's been coding for one year could make good software engineering choices?
Once they get how to program and either need more performance or realize they have no idea how to do some SE/design pattern stuff in python, they'll try to learn some other language like Java or C#.
>>53924130
It's pretty great. I can use it to make small programs for various tasks without having to learn the subtleties of different libraries and APIs. I know it's slow and shit, but it's cool that there's a language with these kinds of options.
>>53929514
It just depends on your goals. If you just want to fuck around or automate some stuff on your computer learn Python and make some scripts.
If you want to learn how to be a good developer though learn C first, and then learn Python.
>>53924348
I tried go switch to Java to play with neural networks, but it was so fucking painfully slow wrt to Tensorflow (based on Numpy).
Why could that be?
>>53929818
The important parts of numpy are written in C and highly optimized
>>53928970
Suggest books for learning about algorithmic complexity.
>>53928937
How is the first MIT SICP lecture going?
>>53924157
Kek
>>53924982
Don't you dare to listen to this faggot. Visual C++ and its GUI abomination is one of the ugliest things I've ever seen. Seriously, it's slow, ugly, and hard to manage sanely.
>>53930667
Any comp sci textbook worth its shit will teach you more than you would want to know about algorithmic complexity.
Read SICP if you don't know of any. It's magical.
>>53930847
I just have textbooks specifically on C plus the CS50x course. I think my algorithmic thinking is in a decent place.
SICP is on my wishlist. Looks great. I've watched a little of the first lecture and can already tell it's going to be one of those mentality-changing educational experiences.
It's one of my favorites
>>53924348
if this is your complaining, then write it on C...
I can't program for shit but Python is the prettiest looking language
very slow
>>53927968
From Reddit or from here for requesting? Either way, dynamic IP, and reddit accounts are free to make, so I can just pop a new account in and start over again
>>53924130
Mainly use it for numpy, scipy and matplotlib. I usually do the actual calculations in C/C++, then I write the results in some file, execute a python script which does some light processing, plotting and other stuff like that. It's a perfect setup for my needs.
>>53928937
you're a fucking idiot
>>53930667
Just read the CLRS algorithms book. Do not listen to the fags telling to you to read SICP. that is the CS equivalent to learning calculus with Newton's Principia Mathematica
>you _can_, but why?
>>53924130
FIOC
>200+ replies and not one mention of this
oh /g/
>>53934566
it has been mentioned time and tim again, just without your stupid acronym
Decent as a second language used for quick solutions, shit as a first language because you learn bad habits that fuck you over if you try to learn a real language afterwards
>>53934657
>shit as a first language because you learn bad habits that fuck you over if you try to learn a real language afterwards
such as?
>if you try to learn a "real" language
>implying python is not a "real" language
kill yourself
>>53934657
>shit as a first language because you learn bad habits that fuck you over if you try to learn a real language afterwards
This is still bullshit.
>>53934601
hello redd*t
>>53934711
>he must not be from here because he doesn't use acronyms that aren't even used commonly on /g/
kill yourself you retarded shitposting /b/tard
What programs can you make in Python? Are there any popular ones ? What about GUI?
>>53924470
>Lua
kek
>>53924814
>As we can use compilers to create assembly language as it is
If you've been programming for over 10 years and haven't started on your own compiler yet, you are a failure.
>>53924130
I loathe it.
I can appreciate its current value though: It exists all over the place, it is easy to hack things up with, lots of people love the language, and you can read bad Python way easier than you can read bad Ruby.
All good things right? I don't think it's a bad tool, I just don't like it because:
- I love high order programming and Python makes doing things that way murderously painful.
- I tried, but I really do not like significant whitespace. Reindenting and refactoring is really annoying because of it.
- The "There's only one way to do it" idea sounds nice, but only if you share the same opinions about what that way should be as the language author. I disagree with a lot of it, such as the overly imperative style.
The biggest reason though, is that I don't find the language fun to write in, and I don't enjoy reading it.
If I don't like it, why am I here? More/less to offset the smug Lisp weenies who give such bad reasons who make it look like the only reason anyone would dislike Python is because they are not informed about it.
>>53936368
I've been programming for less than half a year.
