Java General:
>pros, cons
>experiences
>jokes/memes
Pros: You can actually get a job instead of sticking with meme languages
Pro: The ONLY way to write android apps
>>53672818
how proficient must one be in Java to get first Java job?
what job can a newbie get?
>>53672808
Pros: great IDEs, the language is improvement upon C++ in almost every way
Cons: memory hungry, difficult to deploy your software
Experiences: rummaging through decompiled Minecraft code is more fun than the game itself by order of magnitude.
Jokes/memes: ORM
>>53672820
You can write android apps in C++.
>>53672837
>difficult to deploy your software
how so, Anon?
>>53672844
You have to ship Java, you also have to ship all native code libraries you're using and each platform requires own versions.
>>53672856
that's assuming end user does NOT have JRE installed right? or are you talking about something more in depth? (sorry, i'm still learning)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaynOXm1X3Y
>>53672864
Well, yes. The first half assumes the end user does not have JRE.
>>53672808
old runescape circa 2001 was written using another language and then ported to java, it wasn't purely written in java at all
>>53672818
Con: your job gets stolen by Pajeet in 6 months
>>53672818
Pros of other languages: You can get a more stable, fulfilling job that isn't writing software to other people's specifications
>>53673044
see creeper in minecraft, bugged pig model
>>53672820
con: using android
>>53673060
iClone?
but seriously, what's the most useful thing done using Java (beside minecraft)?
this is my last meme from folder... sorry don't have more, OP
>Be a Java dev with 4 years experience
>Senior dev earning $150K + phone + laptop
How's life doing for you C fags?
>>53673254
how proficient did you need to be to get the job?
>>53673254
what kind of company?
forget your title, what do you ACTUALLY do in your job?
>>53673087
Literally everything. It's easier to list what web apps aren't written in Java than what are.
>>53672959
Good luck with making money doing that retard.
>null pointer exception
>>53673087
OpenOffice / LibreOffice
several IDEs
Jira bug tracker
>>53672808
Pro: android
Con: most boring language to program in
>>53672941
>Indians
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>53672837
How did you get decompile minecraft source code?
>>53675235
>>53675224
good morning. get a cup of java and learn these fools some oop
>>53675255
Man, Indians are legit worse than white people. They also can't code worth shit.
>>53675283
who cares?
racism isn't the point of this thread.
>>53673087
>but seriously, what's the most useful thing done using Java
Useful is relative, but Java mostly used server side nowadays.
ebay, amazon, hadoop, etc.
Even twitter migrate to Java (using scala) after ruby on rails failure.
>>53675249
It's only one google search away.
http://www.modcoderpack.com/website/releases
>>53673087
Not claiming to be most nor useful, but Starsector is written in Java and I'd say it has the best space combat among alternatives (as well as no space 4X ever came close to Starsector's combat system)
if i can ever learn to java, and get a job, what's a day in the life?
>>53673087
Literally almost all big enterprise code runs in Java. Your bank, your government, your favorite corporation internal systems.
>>53673087
Google.
Do you think Kotlin stands a chance at competing with Java adn Scala?
>>53672959
Grow up kid
>>53673100
It's okay. They all sucked ass.
>>53673254
word java + pl/sql = $$$ son
>>53677725
I wonder how feasible it is to write Android apps with it? I really like the idea of being able to target JVM, Android and the browser at the same time and be able to write a native Android app, the equivalent web app and the back end for both all in a single language.
>>53672837
>improvement upon C++
besides the performance is not even close to a fraction of c/c++
why does no one care about performance?
always wonder
do you only write tea timer apps and epic fizzbuzzes?
no wonder android runs like shit if everyone writes their shitty apps in java and not c++
>>53678189
Very. It's what it's made for.
>>53678513
>besides the performance is not even close to a fraction of c/c++
First, writing
>c/c++
is a sign of lack of experience with either language. Second, Java is competitive with C++ for everything but heavy numerical code (where Intel's Fortran compiler beats any C++ compiler anyway). The JIT is a thing of beauty.
>>53678687
>is a sign of lack of experience with either language. Second, Java is competitive with C++ for everything but heavy numerical code (where Intel's Fortran compiler beats any C++ compiler anyway).
sorry but simply no
I was refering to the performance of c/c++ and absolutely nothing else when writing c/c++ because the performance of both languages are very similar and in some cases c++ is even better than c, and if you think otherwise you are a faggot idiot (yes, ad hominem) who doesn't know shit about language performance
on a scale where c and c++ are 1 java is a 10 (lower is better) (source: my ass, I'm on my tablet and you can google the benchmarks yourself)
just stop writing your ad ridden cancer apps in java
>>53678795
>c and c++ are 1 java is a 10 (lower is better)
kek
>Jokes/memes: ORM
Sad but true
>>53678795
>the performance of both languages are very similar and in some cases c++ is even better than c
Yes, if you use C++ as "C with classes". It's a tossup otherwise, especially with STL- and Boost-heavy code.
>source: my ass
Verily.
>I'm on my tablet and you can google the benchmarks yourself.
Here's the top Google hit for "benchmark java c" in my filter bubble: https://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/java.html (also on pic). Pretty close, I would say.
>ad ridden cancer apps
Wait, are you talking exclusively about Dalvik here? Because I am talking about OpenJDK and HotSpot.
>>53679178
JOOQ is love.
Im new to java and wanna make a simple "questionaire" form with it.
Whats a good tutorial for doing this?
Ex. "Do you like red?" if the user checks yes, it sets a boolean to true.
>>53679236
Not open source
>>53677800
putting things down, without posting an example of good
why not raise the bar? rather than be lowbrow?
>>53679489
JOOQ Community Edition is open source (Apache 2.0). Look at http://www.jooq.org/legal/licensing#databases
>>53679513
Lurk more.
>>53678649
Is it though? Their website reads a bit like "hey since this compiles to JVM you can also use it for Android, I guess"
>>53678513
most shit android apps are written in other languages and then slapped with a native wrapper. basically, they make an emulator and shove that into the program.
>>53673100
They were all fucking awful. I don't know how someone funds these funny.
>>53672837
>>53679178
What's wrong with java ORM /JPA ?
>>53679546
Well, their #1 priority is making it easier to developer IntelliJ Idea but Android appears to be a close second. https://github.com/Kotlin/anko and the devs' blog posts like http://blog.jetbrains.com/kotlin/2016/02/kotlin-1-0-released-pragmatic-language-for-jvm-and-android/ are evidence it's a priority for them.
>>53673087
the only non-shit desktop applications written in java are the jetbrains IDEs. other stuff might be useful but they're still shit.
>>53672808
>jokes/memes
Why does IBMs watson need 16Tb of RAM?
Because it was programmed in java.
>>53678513
>n a scale where c and c++ are 1 java is a 10 (lower is better)
>besides the performance is not even close to a fraction of c/c++
nice meme, retard. java isn't that far behind C even in numerical computations
>source: my ass, I'm on my tablet and you can google the benchmarks yourself
I just did:
https://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/java.html
https://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/cpp.html
>>53673592
>nurupo-ga
>>53672837
>difficult to deploy your software
Look at the RuneScape launcher. They ship it with a pre-packaged JRE, so there's no dependencies on the end-user, then use a native agent to launch their jar.
>>53679889
Actually it's because they stored all of the data in the RAM because hard drives were too slow.
>>53679889
owned by >>53680420
BOOM!
The main issue with Java is retards not knowing when to use it.
One famous example of retarded use is in Android. YOU DON'T MAKE USER FACING APPS IN JAVA BECAUSE OF THE GARBAGE COLLECTOR.
>>53680512
>YOU DON'T MAKE USER FACING APPS IN JAVA BECAUSE OF THE GARBAGE COLLECTOR.
what the hell does this even mean? are you just letting random words fall out your mouth?
Anyone have this nice comparison chart where X axis has programming languages and Y axis shows the people using them
>>53680561
sorry, all i have is nice comparison chart where y axis has programming languages and x axis shows the people using them
>>53673592
Do you even use Java? After Java 8 and Optional you don't need to worry about null pointer excpetions any more if you know what you are doing.
>>53672808
pros:
- jobs en masse
- android (and it is quite comfy actually)
- JavaFX (love it)
- new version is actually nice and fast
- Management Approved®
cons:
- verbose
- syntax is arguably not the prettiest
- there is actually a more modern version of it called Scala
i'm intentionally leaving out the language design stuff that is largely a question of use case such as strong typing and java's object orientation model.
experiences:
mostly to do with idiot corp devs and idiot corp managers. sometimes "Java" seems to be the magic word to get decision in the corp world... when presenting a project, just casually dropping in that you're thinking about doing it in java will substantially increase your chance of getting a positive decision, even if you're blatantly lying and later announce that it'll all be fucking Scheme. although nowadays you can just say you're doing it in Scala and then explain how Scala runs on the Java virtual machine and that will be enough. literally just mentioning the word Java is key... it triggers the "that's what everybody is doing" neurons in tiny management brains.
jokes/memes:
- Java is slow. while it's still slower by a factor of anything between two and five (depending on algorithm) than optimised C/C++, it's still a magnitude or two faster than shit like Python or other interpreted languages. and it beats the shit out of C/C++ in development speed. this compromise between being actually pretty fast and still offering quite rapid development is actually Java's biggest case.
>>53672830
>proficient at coding
>to get a job
you don't know the reality, dude. just apply. if you can do fizzbuzz, apply.
>>53679300
Is this what you wanted anon?
>>53680512
Windows Phone uses C# (and a GC) for most apps and it doesn't lag.
The problem with Android is within its graphics stack implementation, not the particular language used.
>>53680512
>>53680686
The issue with Android is that it uses what is essentially a Chinese-knockoff version of the JVM.
If they used the official JVM, it would be a lot, lot faster.
But Google is too Jewy to pay Oracle to license it for Android.
Cons:
This is a weekly thing: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/topics/security/alert-cve-2016-0636-2949497.html
Class names longer than Ulysses
Pros:
High resistance to fucking off and dying already
>>53680534
> Not working in the web industry
User facing apps = software that needs to interact with a user.
Since the java garbage collector needs to stop the code from running before it can free the unused resources from memory, the user will feel that as lag. You can mitigate this by using more memory and letting the unused resources to stay uncleaned. But you have to eventually remove them. And the more you have to remove, the longer it takes, hence the laggier the interaction with the app will appear.
There are generally two ways to automatically free memory.
1) Garbage collecting
2) Automatic reference counting
1 offers better raw performance, but will stop the code randomly, and create lag, so it's not good for UI
2 has lower raw performance, but does not need to stop the code, so it never lags, and is good for UI
Java developer here: Its a powerful, convenient, intuitive language with a massive range of applications. It integrates with the web, hardware, and is of course the language used to design android apps. It's the most enjoyable language Ive ever used. I got an internship at a major tech company after self-teaching for about a year. After just a couple years of working in it I can make web applications, android apps, desktop apps and integrate them all seamlessly with one another.
Yes. It's a good language.
>>53680761
>Since the java garbage collector needs to stop the code from running before it can free the unused resources from memory, the user will feel that as lag
The garbage collector does not "stop the code from running." When a variable exits the scope, the memory allocated for it is moved to a separate block. When the block is close to being filled, it will de-allocate everything in that block.
This is an overly-simplified explanation, as there are several different types of cleanup that the JVM performs, but this is the general idea.
>>53680634
>- there is actually a more modern version of it called Scala
That's a pro, not a con.
You can mix any language that runs on the JVM seamlessly with Java, including Scala.
You can use the JNI to mix C/C++ with it, too, but that's a lot more complicated and error-prone.
>>53680605
I just read a bit about Optional and it seems to force you into using either, in typical Java fashion, (even more) verbose design patterns or functional-like programming.
>>53672959
I see what you're trying to do there big boi
so i am wanting to learn java. trying, reading... but it seems lame to just retype letter for letter what is in the books.
can you give me some example projects to try to work out? something small, so i can practice and make it work. then maybe get more complex later. google doesn't really help with this.
>>53681777
try to make a program that takes in a string and outputs it backwards.
ex. input: hello
output: olleh
>>53681883
good one.
i'll work on this tonight. got any more?
>>53680512
>>53680761
The GC is not causing lag, moron. You clearly know very little of what you are talking about.
I fucking hate Java, but you're just wrong.
>>53681986
Yes, try to print out this
*
**
***
****
*****
****
***
**
*
So maybe to add some challenge you can input a number and it will print ^ how ever many time the number is so ex
Input #: 2
*prints out that thing at top two times*
>>53682283
what this image leaves out is assigning and freeing memory
S E G M E N T A T I O N F A U L T
S E G M E N T A T I O N F A U L T
S E G M E N T A T I O N F A U L T
S E G M E N T A T I O N F A U L T
S E G M E N T A T I O N F A U L T
Add a little box for each malloc free and shit. Then you'll see how clean and beautiful java is
>>53682410
Clearly you don't know how write a memory manager. Call yourself a programmer?. Kill yourself immediately.
>>53682283
C is shit and deprecated though.
>>53675723
>>/out/
>>53673254
Pretty awesome, thanks. Plus, knowing C inside and out makes Java piss easy. I do Java work on the side to make a bit of extra cash, but kernel hacking is so much more fun than AbstractFactoryLoaderBeanForPooInLoo.
I don't mind Java as a language, but the ecosystem fosters a culture of incompetence that I want no part of.
>>53673254
> C, ASM
> custom AVR stuff
> 1000 euro/month
> small car and small apartment
Im from poor family so I feel I'm pretty alright right now.
>>53682873
>1k a month
hahaha
>>53682873
good for you, Anon!
we all gotta start somewhere.
>>53680750
Something so widely used with so many users and so many companies, web apps, etc using it. Of course people will be finding exploits so often with it.
>>53672808
Pros: kinda easy to learn
Cons: heavy as fuck, all the jobs goes to currys
>>53672808
still the best language for an enterprise setting. There's a million reasons why: tooling, ecosystem, widespread adoption, OO, fast (for a managed language) etc. etc. It's powerful enough and fast enough for large-scale systems, real-time systems etc. Very mature in things like security, i18n, encryption... all that other stuff that grown-up systems have to worry about. e.g. that package management fiasco that happened this week in node; all that kind of shit has been worked out of maven or w/e. it just wouldn't happen.
not ideal for personal projects because it's so verbose. Takes longer to do anything in it than say python.
you'll never go hungry if you're experienced in java. good money, lots of jobs. Most popular language in the workplace afaik
seen some demos on YT of Zelda OoT remade in UnReal... looks nice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-X_1awoPHA
what's the most HD graphics thing Java has been used for?
if notch can make minecraft, we could make HD games... right?
>>53673592
>>53683739
>>53683682
no... we are talking tech and programming and Java specifically.
video game is just ONE application of it.
ffs just gtfo
>>53683682
There's probably a lot more, but you could give JMonkeyEngine a try. I've never done anything really complicated with it, but it seemed very decent from what I gathered at the time.
>>53673087
Hentai@home is written in java senpai
>>53682579
nice try, bjarne.
>>53683682
The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth is made in Java iirc
>>53672820
I never use java because it is so bugged for android development.
No issue with golang.
