Why does /g/ hate Wayland?
>>53638088
Many DEs are not compatible yet
>>53638088
how long you got?
reinventing the wheel.
X11 works, exists and i can run an x11 thing on one machine and have it display on another cant do that with wayland. if they want to improve things improve X11.
but then if you're going to "improve" on x11, then ffs this aint it, take a look at sample wayland hello world...
https://hdante.wordpress.com/2014/07/08/the-hello-wayland-tutorial/
its like its 1995 all over again.
I gave maki a blanket so she doesn't catch a cold :3c
>>53638088
/g/ hates wayland because their keyloggers will stop working and keylogging under wayland actually requires finding a vulnerability rather than just runnig a bash script.
>>53638088
/g/ hates everything new...
>>53638088
Because there are a lot of things X11 can do that Wayland can't (yet at least).
Oh? Sure, it's a mixed bag but seems to me most people can't wait.
Personally, I'll hold off switching until I can get Redshift under Wayland. I gather Hawaii has its own implementation but I'd rather not move from Gnome. Then I'll investigate other deal breakers. There are a few of those in Gnome 3.18, but I expect 3.20 to be a lot more solid.
i want to use it, but right now most of my graphical software doesn't natively run on it
>>53638088
Wayland is NEW
/g/ is full of neckbeards who are scared of NEW
>>53639140
/thread
I don't hate it.
I'm just never an early adopter of technology.
I'll wait to see if it is any good before making a judgement.
>>53639076
The overhead of running X clients on Wayland is very small, so you shouldn't have to worry about that.
>>53638387
On a similar note, if you're running Wayland and want to forward something over the network, wouldn't you be able to launch that something as an X client and do it like before?
On a note not really connected to the matter at hand, it's funny how I've never seen people talk about X11 forwarding outside of Wayland discussions.
>>53639508
>The overhead of running X clients on Wayland is very small, so you shouldn't have to worry about that.
then my only other concerns are;
- is there a compositor that is functionally similar to openbox+tint2?
- what is the equivalent to xrandr?
>>53638088
I hate tomatoes.
>>53639524
They are 13 anyways. Why bother fixing when the chances of collision are less than .5%??
>>53639318
Well it can't be worse than X.
>>53639522
I can't confidently answer either question. I haven't taken a look at that many compositors but with there being quite a few around by now, it wouldn't surprise me if there's one that fits you. There's wlrandr but I don't have any personal experience with it.
I should actually state clearly that my own Wayland experience is very limited. What I told you in my previous post is mostly based on the experience of others but most importantly also on benchmarks. I'm waiting for Gnome on Wayland to fix its major issues before I properly make the switch myself.
I don't think I'd bother with Wayland unless I can get rid of X completely, which means that a lot of older programs might be going out, too. I don't see the point of having both installed on my system.
>>53639869
>I don't see the point of having both installed on my system.
So that you can use a better display server while not missing out on any programs. You basically delivered the point yourself.
No need to hurry, though. Consider making the switch when there's a Wayland compositor you feel you'll be happy with.
>>53639902
>a better display server
X works and has never failed me (using linux for 5 years)
>>53640412
It hasn't failed me as such either, using Linux for nine years. Firefox 3.5 never failed me as well, but gods, am I happy to have left that behind me. Wayland will very likely do a lot of good for the Linux desktop.
What we do today can be good. What we do tomorrow can be better.
>>53638088
Because they're retarded consumerists.
>>53638102
How the fuck is that a reason to hate Wayland?
Wayland is objectively superior X, you should be waiting for more DE's to support it.
>>53640412
you and everyone not convinced x needs replacing should watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIctzAQOe44
>>53638387
>X11 works
Wrong.
>i can run an x11 thing on one machine and have it display on another
Useless
>cant do that with wayland
VNC
>improve X11
They've tried, not possible.
>https://hdante.wordpress.com/2014/07/08/the-hello-wayland-tutorial/
Have you tried programming X? this is way better than X.
>>53638435
So how do keyloggers under Windows work?
Does Windows actually allow you to log keys system-wide? or do they all use known vulnerabilities?
>>53640578
>>https://hdante.wordpress.com/2014/07/08/the-hello-wayland-tutorial/
https://github.com/hdante/hello_wayland
It has almost 300 lines of helper functions so the whole wayland hello world is almost 400 lines of code...
>>53640554
i'm watching it right now unironically and I am laughing my ass off
y'all niggas need to learn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWQh_DmDLKQ
>>53638088
Why does /g/ hate Maki?
>>53638088
>Wayland is not compatible with X11 programs
>Have to run an X11 server beside Wayland to actually use favorite X11 WM.
Geez, if i wanted bloat i'd just install ubuntu.
>>53640596
AFAIK Windows allows software to intercept and even modify keys. That's how software like teamspeak or ventrilo works in press to transmit mode. That's also how mouse companion software (mostly for gaming mice) allows you to run macros.
>>53642183
>run a X11 server on Wayland to use a X11 WM ...
Ummm... what? I don't even...
Why?
Do you even know what you're saying?
Do you even understand how Wayland works?
>>53641122
Because love live was shit.
>>53642409
I believe GetAsyncKeyState, RegisterHotKey and SetWindowsHookEx functions still work under WinAPI but they're probably blocked by many anti-viruses.
That's for user space at least I have no fucking idea how they make kernel keyloggers.
>>53638395
Cute
>>53638395
Th-Thanks anon-kun :3
>>53642552
SetWindowsHookEx and GetAsyncKeyState are not blocked by any antivirus. I never found one where my own hotkey-tool doesn't work.
>>53640554
tldr please if anyone watched it
>>53638088
BOTNET
O
T
N
E
T
>>53640578
>>i can run an x11 thing on one machine and have it display on another
>Useless
Even though I support and really waiting for the first opportunity to switch to wayland (it's still not complete), this claim is plain wrong. This is probably the only thing that is great about X. It's no big deal in personal stuff but in clusters it makes things so simple.
>>53643705
tl;dr : Guy is an X dev and explains why X is fucking terrible and Wayland better.
I personally don't use Wayland as Sway doesn't have all of i3's features (https://github.com/SirCmpwn/sway/wiki) and isn't in my distro's packages.
But once those two problems are gone I'll be happy to do a clean install and forget about X.
>>53643750
Actually any program being able to trivially run a keylogger is a lot more botnetish. This is a glaring security vulnerability inherent in X11. The only reason there is not mindblowing X11-related Linux malware is the small market size.
>>53643772
thank you, anon.
I'm also interested in Sway and Wayland, I was just to lazy to switch before, will try it this week on my Void partition.
But what is it you miss in Sway? It seems to me that most features got implemented.
>>53644060
Tabbed layout, saving/loading layouts.
I don't know what "workspace left/right/up/down" means, but if that means moving a workspace to a specific display, I can't do without it. Switching displays is too painful otherwise.
Also I'd rather have borders than gaps (how can you tell which window is focused otherwise ?) and borders aren't supported yet.
people on /g/ are just generally hateful and sad and that spreads over everything, lurk more newfriend
>>53644154
I don't understand why people prefer tabbed over a different workspace. Never used this feature.
>how can you tell which window is focused?
Easy. By having the focused window have a different pixel border color (just look at i3gaps scots, I'm on my phone)
I'm just hoping Sway will support "moving workspaces on a high number down to the first not used number automatically", cause that's what I always wanted
>>53644272
Couldn't you just script that with i3-msg?
>>53644272
>I don't understand why people prefer tabbed over a different workspace
On my laptop I use a different workspace for each of my courses, and some of my courses require a fuckton of open windows. So what I usually have is a tabbed container that contains multiple split containers.
>Easy. By having the focused window have a different pixel border color (just look at i3gaps scots, I'm on my phone)
Except borders aren't supported yet. https://github.com/SirCmpwn/sway/issues/2
>I'm just hoping Sway will support "moving workspaces on a high number down to the first not used number automatically", cause that's what I always wanted
I've never thought about that, but you're right, that sounds useful.
>>53638088
Absolutely nothing except gnome works on it correctly. Operative word here is "correctly". Even then, gnome is very buggy on it.
>>53638088
Why do you hate my town anon
>>53638395
ふぃっくす尾 ザ ぶらんけと
>>53644351
If i3/sway ever supports minimizing (and if sway rebases on something other than lolweston), It'd finally become usable!
>>53644390
>i3/sway ever supports minimizing
I don't think it ever will. I don't think a lot of users would use it.
>>53640671
So what? We have enough disk space now.
>>53644402
Sure, because the only people crazy enough to use i3 without support for minimization are insane. But if i3/sway supported minimization, the userbase would suddenly grow 10 fold.
>>53640671
By this logic, dx12/vulkan are dogshit and we should all go back to fixed-function pipeline opengl.
>>53644306
teach me onegai, I never managed to do it, maybe I'm just to stupid
and besides, the point is to have it on sway
>>53644351
Alright, that's a valid reason. But wait, they don't even support pixel borders?? I thought just window-title-borders?
>>53644487
Maybe I am misunderstanding the listed item in the github issue, but I was under the impression that borders weren't supported. I took a look at the video available here : http://swaywm.org/ and it doesn't show any borders.
>>53644487
I don't know much about sway, but if the point is to be compatible with i3 it should have i3-msg(or an equivalent).$ i3-msg -t get_workspaces | python -m json.tool
[
{
"num": 1,
"name": "1",
"visible": false,
"focused": false,
"rect": {
"x": 0,
"y": 0,
"width": 1280,
"height": 800
},
"output": "LVDS1",
"urgent": false
},
{
"num": 2,
"name": "2",
"visible": true,
"focused": true,
"rect": {
"x": 0,
"y": 0,
"width": 1280,
"height": 800
},
"output": "LVDS1",
"urgent": false
},
{
"num": 3,
"name": "3",
"visible": false,
"focused": false,
"rect": {
"x": 0,
"y": 0,
"width": 1280,
"height": 800
},
"output": "LVDS1",
"urgent": false
},
{
"num": 5,
"name": "5",
"visible": false,
"focused": false,
"rect": {
"x": 0,
"y": 0,
"width": 1280,
"height": 800
},
"output": "LVDS1",
"urgent": false
}
]
So you could read that into a python script or something that can parse JSON, and then just shift the workspaces down by moving all the windows to another. So in the example just move all the windows from workspace 5 to workspace 4. You might also use i3-msg -t get_tree.
>>53644685import os, json, subprocess
workspaces = json.load(os.popen('i3-msg -t get_workspaces'))
cnt = 1
for ws in workspaces:
if int(ws['num']) != cnt:
print("move", ws['num'], cnt)
os.system('i3-msg [workspace=%s] move workspace %s' % (ws['num'], cnt))
cnt += 1
This is assuming all the workspaces are named (1, 2, 3, ...).
As for "automatically", you could execute the script on a common action like switching workspaces.bindsym $mod+1 workspace 1; exec python ~/share/wm/shift-workspaces.py
Doesn't work with Redshift
dont hate it. just want my scrolling with the trackball mouse i have.
that's the only thing i need to switch over
>>53643705
tl;dr: X a shit, wait for Wayland.
>>53647303
How long has it been? 6 years? And it's still nowhere near ready. It's been at least 3 years since the first release.
>>53647429
>nowhere near ready
Source: your bum.
Gnome 3.18 was very close to being ready for standard usage. And with 3.20 released today, it might be there now.
>>53639522
>xrandr
Actually one of my biggest problems with Wayland. Can't set my monitor to 144 hz.
>>53648312
>a single (100% cancerous) DE is finally going to tentatively support wayland
>therefore wayland has been ready since forever!
>>53650280
>hurrdurrgnomebad
"Since forever" is quite the warping of my words, but if that makes you happier, then sure. Hint: while they're certainly not applying varnish at this point, it's not Wayland "not being ready" that's hindering Wayland support today, and it's not been that way for quite some time now.
It's fascinating how so many people, judging from what they say, seem to believe that the Wayland developers should be writing every damn compositor.
>>53650529
Fuck off lennart, nobody likes you.
