What exactly does the FBI want from Apple?
They want Apple to create a custom iOS version so that the FBI will be allowed to do infinite brute-force attacks?
Apple doesn't want to do this because they're afraid the FBI will use the custom firmware on other phones, even though they said it was only for one phone?
Why doesn't the FBI just give Apple the phone so they can try to crack it or is Apple too prideful and would never try to crack any iphone under any circumstance?
>>53073702
It is a PR stunt, they have unlocked phones for the FBI several times before
Based Cook
They've been cracking phones for the fbi for years now, they're just suddenly pissy about it for no particular reason that anybody can really identify.
The fbi wants them to keep doing it, but apple says no.
I'm assuming the real reason is this probably ties up their main cryptology engineers, and it's wasting apple's money.
>>53073716
http://techcrunch.com/2016/02/18/no-apple-has-not-unlocked-70-iphones-for-law-enforcement/
>It has not unlocked these iPhones — it has extracted data that was accessible while they were still locked.
So... same shit?
The problem is can the fbi get the encrypted data.
It doesn't really matter what means you use to decrypt it, especially if that means happens to be a button that says "download and decrypt all of this person's private information" which in itself is far more concerning.
>>53073702
>What exactly does the FBI want from Apple?
A precedent
>>53073736
D A M A G E C O N T R O L
A
M
A
G
E
C
O
N
T
R
O
L
>>53073716
>>53073736
/g/ sucks at sniffing out bullshit. Or it's full of FBI disinfo.
>>53073791
looks like the latter
>>53073717
He should be jailed/deported for defying our man Trump.
>>53073782
This, it has nothing to do with Apple, or terrorism, and everything to do with neutering encryption for everyone on every device
This entire case gets stranger by the day.
They are saying that an IT coworker reset the iCloud password and that prevented auto-backups from happening. This happened a few hours after the shooting. Apple said they could've given control of the account as it were to the FBI. If Apple just rolled back the password reset, wouldn't the phone just happily log back in?
Also I find it hard to believe they can't just clone this thing or dump it and just run an attack on it on a dummy devices or even emulated virtualized instances and attack all the shitty PIN combinations that will likely unlock the phone.
I'd also be willing to believe there are people out there that could just straight up bypass the wipe mechanism in hardware attacks.
That and Apple likely already has a backdoor.
Apple wants to play it off like they are secure.
Government wants easier backdoor access.
>>53073776
>So... same shit?
If you had bothered to spend more than two minutes on a beginner-level Google search, you would have learned that since iOS 8, it has been impossible for Apple to extract anything from a locked phone, due to mandatory full disk encryption.
What the FBI is trying to do is to skip the software-enforced roadblocks in iOS so that they can get right to brute-forcing the shooter's 4-digit PIN through a computer with no consequences (which would make it trivially easy to break). To do this they need Apple to develop and sign a unique iOS build just for that purpose. Once the PIN is discovered, then they can access the phone's contents.
>>53073988
>To do this they need Apple to develop and sign a unique iOS build just for that purpose. Once the PIN is discovered, then they can access the phone's contents.
Why not just let Apple do this? Keep the software in-house so Apple won't be paranoid about the firmware being used somewhere else.
>>53074088
If it leaks it'll waste hundreds of millions of dollars worth of crypto research.
Apple doesn't want it to exist period.
I'm not an iPhone user: Can you flash straight-up the backup from iCloud account? If it's encrypted do you need the password to flash the backup?
>>53073702
>What exactly does the FBI want from Apple?
For Apple to stop being terrorist harboring scum.
They all lost their rights when they shot and killed people.
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2016/02/encryption-isnt-at-stake-the-fbi-knows-apple-already-has-the-desired-key/
>>53074088
As far as I understand, they are letting Apple do it, but Apple doesn't want to either way.
>>53074158
That shouldn't be possible, the custom build can apparently be locked to the phone's IMEI/some other unique hardware ID combination and must be signed using Apple's FW key. Even if it leaked, nobody could do shit since they couldn't sign it even if they changed it, so it would be quite worthless.
The stakes must be something else, not just unlocking this one phone. Maybe setting some sort of precedent or Apple trying to get some amazing PR by valiantly protecting their customer's privacy.
>>53073930
>Also I find it hard to believe they can't just clone this thing or dump it and just run an attack on it on a dummy devices or even emulated virtualized instances and attack all the shitty PIN combinations that will likely unlock the phone.
The encryption is derived from a unique hardware key in each iPhone's Secure Enclave. It is impossible to attack an image from another computer.
>That and Apple likely already has a backdoor.
Apple doesn't care about what you do with your iPhone. You already gave them your money when you bought it. It's just that simple.
Tim Cook has been saying it until he's blue in the face.
Everyone loves their pet conspiracy theories, but Apple is really the only company that tells it like it is.
>>53074280
>they all lost their rights when they shot and killed people
Honey, that's not how America works. Even murderers are afforded due process.
Terrorism isn't anything new. It's just murder. In fact, it's not even really a big threat. Of all the murders that have taken place since 2000, terrorism accounts for less than .5% in the US.
>>53074369
Let me correct myself by mentioning that the shooter's iPhone 5c is a pre-Secure Enclave device. So while it may be easier for the security to be attacked, the point ultimately is that Apple is drawing a line in the sand against power-tripping G-men before shit really hits the fan.
>>53074369
>It is impossible to attack an image from another computer.
What is lost in all of this discussion is that the Security Enclave can be edited without corrupting the encrypted data. Either a 12 year old designed it this way, or it was intentionally done to allow a backdoor in the future.
>>53073702
>so that the FBI will be allowed to do infinite brute-force attacks?
If you can call 14-bit pin code protecting the secure AES crypto key "brute force". They could break it in milliseconds if Apple helped them with custom firmware that didn't self-destruct after too many retries. This is why Tim Cook gets my respect. He ain't gonna break.
>>53074395
Fuck off Ahmed.
>>53074305
>That shouldn't be possible, the custom build can apparently be locked to the phone's IMEI/some other unique hardware ID combination and must be signed using Apple's FW key. Even if it leaked, nobody could do shit since they couldn't sign it even if they changed it, so it would be quite worthless.
Compared to the difficulty of breaking a 256bit encryption key that shit is a walk in the park to bypass.
>>53074395
Yes, even the US, Israel, and many other countries are terrorists to someone. How would you feel if some foreign country killed 10 of your family members/kids standing next to a "known terrorist" and that foreign country called it "collateral damage"? What if nothing was done about it... well that is what is happening right now.
>Why doesn't the FBI just give Apple the phone so they can try to crack it
They've said that they're willing to do this, Apple are literally just being faggots
Publicity stunt. "Look at us we protect your privacy". Giving the data under the table.
>>53074561
>We have a Constitution, rights are things you know
>fuck u
American Discourse, 2016
>>53074593
We have a constitution that protects American citizens, that doesn't extend to you Farook.
>>53074574
>breaking an RSA signed hardware ID is easier than breaking 256bit encryption
lol no
>>53074561
>hurr durr if you fight for civil liberties you must be a terrorist
>the terrorists hate us for our freedoms
>lets fight the terrorists by shredding the bill of rights
Fuck off, JTRIG.
>>53074547
Another feature of the iPhone is that the decryption must take place on the iPhone, because of the UID. By design, each attempt at decryption takes 80 milliseconds. Thus only 12.5 attempts per second can be made. An 11 digit code would take 126 years to bruteforce.
all they want is for apple to unlock the fucking phone.
apple is bitching and moaning and trying to make a PR statement about it.
they could unlock the phone without putting a fucking backdoor into ios or whatever stupid shit they are talking about. you can talk about MUH NSA all you fucking want, but this one fucking case has a legitimate fucking purpose
>>53074608
>appletards unironically side with terrorists who killed over a dozen people to defend their shitstain megacorp
>>53074578
>How would you feel if some foreign country killed 10 of your family members/kids standing next to a "known terrorist" and that foreign country called it "collateral damage"?
I'm pretty sure it's infinitely more likely I'll get hit by lightning while fucking a shark.
Or better yet some dipshit pulling his gun he bought 20 minutes earlier and killing me for my wallet.
Frankly it's more likely I'll die in a school shooting, we only get 52 school shootings a year average.
But no, you're right, the one and only terrorist attack in the last 14 years on US soil REALLY poses a real risk.
Fucking retard.
>>53074369
What could the FBI obtained from their iCloud account that Apple gave them access to?
Here's the latest story from all of this:
>to attempt an auto-backup of the SUBJECT DEVICE with the related iCloud account (which would not work in this case because neither the owner nor the government knew the password to the iCloud account, and the owner, in an attempt to gain access to some information in the hours after the attack, was able to reset the password remotely, but that had the effect of eliminating the possibility of an auto-backup)
Can't Apple just either rollback the reset or look at data backups? If the password was set back to the original, would the phone just log back in? I mean can you change you iCloud online and change it back and your phone would just log back in, right?
>>53074616
Spoof it.
>>53074395
No, there is a difference between murder and terrorism even though they involve killing people you fucking retard.
This isn't about waterboarding people so you can just fuck off back to wherever you came from.
>give apple a locked iphone
>apple uploads signed hax firmware to crack it open
>dumps data partitions to give to the feds
>destroys iphone ensuring hax firmware never gets out
This shit is simple, it's literally just Apple being faggots. I hope the courts end up owning their ass after this.
>>53074678
/thread
>>53074645
WTF? I'm talking about the countries that the US is bombing right now you fucking self-centered cunt. Yes, you are safe. Have your mommy tuck you in tight.
>>53074675
>No, there is a difference between murder and terrorism even though they involve killing people you fucking retard.
What, the reasoning behind the murder?
Why is it suddenly so much worse if the guy shooting up a mall is doing it for Allah instead of doing it because he's a depressed virgin?
>>53074634
You're like the people who think that lawyers who defend people charged with kiddie porn automatically are pro-pedo
I'm defending my own rights and nothing more.
>>53074578
I'm the anon you quoted. I completely agree with you. The drone program is one of the best recruiting tools terrorists have. It should be ended immediately.
The precedent it sets is rather scary. How could the US argue against China bombing people it deems terrorists in another sovereign country when we've spent 15 years doing the same thing?
Another scary aspect is the "signature strikes" where the military doesn't even know the name of the person it is killing. Merely fitting the profile of someone whose metadata might be a terrorists is enough to get you droned. In alot of these cases, they've never even laid eyes on the person they are bombing.
The worst part is that the US puts on this face of "defender of liberty" "leader of the free world."
The sheer arrogance of it all is astounding.
>>53074675
What is the difference between terrorism and murder? If the only difference between them is that terrorism perpetuates a feeling of unease and physical insecurity, then all the news agencies should be locked up on terrorism charges.
All this shit is just overblown. The odds of anyone in the US dying of a terrorist attack is ZERO. You're more likely to be killed by a pig than a terrorist.
>>53074711
One would be a lone wolf scenario and the other may involve multiple people.
>>53074684
Oh, how's that any different from school shooters?
Am I suppose to blame everything on those dastardly foreigners?
Spoiler alert: every country america bombed was fucked up before they bombed it.
The most effective strategy would be to glass that whole shitty desert, all the holy sites, everyone, Mediterranean to indian ocean.
Fact is america is only going foreplay mode on those shitholes to test their weapons so they can sell them to their allies.
>>53074675
They are still the same under the law.
And are therefore afforded the same rights and due process.
>>53073702
They just want some breakfast...
>>53073702
Why doesn't the Apple just buy the FBI and make their own rules?
>>53074678
>destroying evidence
that's even more illegal than just ignoring the FBI
>>53074732
There have been plenty of "lone wolf" terrorist attacks. There have also been attacks (like Columbine) and serial killers that worked with others despite not having any real ideological motivation.
And why does it matter if the attack involves multiple people? Cho managed to rack up a higher kill count than the Boston bombers and the San Bernadino shooters combined.
>>53074732
>may involve multiple people.
Search "Columbine"
>>53074757
Apple pays more corporate tax than the FBI's entire budget. They already own the FBI.
>>53074620
>Another feature of the iPhone is that the decryption must take place on the iPhone, because of the UID. By design, each attempt at decryption takes 80 milliseconds. Thus only 12.5 attempts per second can be made. An 11 digit code would take 126 years to bruteforce.
Not if the FBI gets their way and has custom firmware installed that doesn't wait between tries and never self-destructs. That pin code will instantly (milliseconds) reveal the strong crypto key no problem.
>>53074760
>>53074764
Multiple people outside of the shooters.
>>53074784
>Multiple people outside of the shooters.
So? In the end all that really matters is how big of a threat they are to human life. Statistically you are more likely to get shot in the face by a mugger than a terrorist.
>>53074678
>hey guys, you did this for this one terrorist, do it for this other terrorist
>hey we also need you to do this for some big drug kingpin, they're basically the same thing
>look it's for the best if you do this for some other small-time drug dealers as well, for the kids
>we've caught so many criminals so how about you set up a process where we can just do this automatically? would save a lot of trouble when we're hauling in people for crimes
>>53074678
>>53074683
JTRIG, pls GO
Honestly, how many times and ways does the government have to abuse its surveillance authority before people stop trusting them?
>>53074736
>we should just kill hundreds of millions of people because a few thousand of our people died
American arrogance at its finest.
>every country america bombed was fucked up before they bombed it.
I can't think of anyone that would say that Syria, Iraq, Iran, or Afghanistan were better off after American intervened.
Hell, lets look at South America as well. Guatemala, El Salvador, Colombia, Mexico, etc. Everywhere America tries to throw its weigh around turns into a shithole.
>test their weapons so they can sell them to their allies.
They're creating conflicts so that there is demand for their weapons.
>>53074783
That is inaccurate. The decryption will still have to take place on the actual phone, which takes 80 milliseconds per attempt. I think the 5c, the phone in question, limits PINs to 4 digits, but someone with a 5s or later should use a random 11 digit password, which would protect them through their lifetime.
>>53074809
>hey we also need you to do this for some big drug kingpin, they're basically the same thing
No, the NSA handles giving data to DEA. They don't like the FBI much these days since they both are in the business of spying on US.
>>53074784
That one retard atheist from /r9k/ had all of 4chan cheering him on.
>>53074809
That all happens anyway, except normally Apple doesn't try and frame it as a backdoor into its software when it isn't even close.
As the DoJ have said, it's all a marketing stunt.
The real solution is for Apple to mandate alphanumeric passcodes of at least six characters, rather than defaulting to just numbers. At that point brute-forcing would take nearly 500 years.
>>53074811
literally this.
Also, once Apple gives the American government access to this, it creates a legal precedent for other countries to request for the same.
>>53074811
What's the most 4chan way of generating a random 11-digit number?
I'm thinking that I would write all the numbers on three sets of tiles and put them into a cup, shake them around, and then scatter them in a close pile on a towel on the floor. I'd then jack off and would pick up the tiles that my jizz lands on. Repeat until I get 11 digits.
>>53074869
see
>>53073807
>/g/ sucks at sniffing out bullshit.
>>53074800
I don't give a shit about muh safety. If people participated, they should suffer the consequences.
>>53074829
I was mainly talking about actual support. If the family or anyone close were financially supporting or had a role in it, then they should be punished.
>>53074873
Sorry, but this is getting ridiculous. How about we just generate secure 256-bit AES keys and use that?
>>53074882
If you are interested in a real way iirc there is a website that generates password based on CMB, not some
Pseudorandomness
>>53074882
Dice is the easiest. You could also shitpost 11 different times on a fast moving board and use the last digit of each post.
>>53074882
>What's the most 4chan way of generating a random 11-digit number?
go to >>>/b/ and ask them to count to 11
This thread is definition cancer.
>>53074939
Zozzle
I garun fucking tee the FBI, NSA, and/or CIA has cracked it. This is a PR stunt for Apple and to try and trick the goys into thinking they don't need encryption. Maybe they'll do it with a windows phone. That would be lolable
>>53074943
It's a Apple thread blended with politics and heavy sprinkling of bullshit.
It doesn't get more cancerous than this.
>>53074913
>Sorry, but this is getting ridiculous
Is it? Any competent web site or IT department enforces minimum length and complexity requirements for passwords. Why should a mobile device be the exception?
Touch ID already provides the convenience that a strong password doesn't.
>We have not, nor will we ever put a backdoor into our software
>Refuses to publish the source code
Don't listen to Ondore's lies
>>53074986
Source code doesn't mean jack shit unless you compile all the code yourself.
You are an utter fool to trust anyone else's binaries.
>>53074983
I actually agree, but how would you enforce this policy? The phone in question was also work phone.
The FBI is blaming a IT worker in that department for resetting the password to their iCloud account, but I think this is also just more bullshit to the existing shitshow.
>>53074966
>This is a PR stunt for Apple and to try and trick the goys into thinking they don't need encryption.
You wot. The phone is encrypted.
>>53073702
no.
they want them to give them the recovery key they store in your "iCloud" bullshit
>>53074983
All these "standard" ways of using pass-phrases to generate "strong keys" are in question. The NSA pushed hard to "standardize" the random number generators in such a way that undermines the truly strong nature of cryptos like AES. If you want strong crypto, don't use passphrases. Demand that your products can accept a 256-bit key that you supply. Then, rest assured, it ain't gonna be brute-forced.
>>53074873
>6 characters
>nearly 500 years to brute force
How?
>>53075032
>how would you enforce this policy? The phone in question was also work phone.
MDM
The county office probably has a three-person IT department that doesn't have the slightest clue about properly managing mobile devices.
>>53075136
(((((76^6)/12.5)/60)/60)/24)/365
>>53074645
>we only get 52 school shootings a year average.
>only 52 school shootings
>only
>>53075189
Topkek
>>53075189
He's incorrect. I suppose he read that in a Huffington post headline or something. The media likes to sensationalize shootings that occur in the general vicinity of schools as "school shootings." Many of these shootings are drug dealers and other scum that end up getting shot on or near school grounds.
>>53075136
You don't have the hash
>>53074736
You do understand that the ISIS propaganda is saying the exact same to justify their actions? I believe they also are trying to - make America great again.
>>53075216
>Many of these shootings are drug dealers and other scum that end up getting shot on or near school grounds.
That sure is better. The kids can witness random shootings while having a lower chance of getting shot, since they are not the prime target.
>>53075209
>52/308e6 = 16.88E-06
I'll take those odds for freedom
american here
anyone not defending apple in this thread is advocating a forfeiture of their constitutional freedoms
defending the FBI does not make you a red blooded american. hate to break it to you but this isn't the first time the FBI has overstepped it's boundaries
>>53074660
Basically this. If a couple of drooling retards on the chonz realized this in 15min, you would hope that a multibillion dollar law enforcement agency specializing in computer crime for the last 30 years would have thought of it.
>>53073702
what's on the phone doesn't matter, they just want a legal precedent to force companies to do their bidding
>>53075475
^This
>>53074873
Using a freaking arduino or what?
>>53074811
Mactard, pls GO
Honestly, how many times and ways does the ISIS have to mass murder you before retards stop defending them?
>>53073930
>If Apple just rolled back the password reset, wouldn't the phone just happily log back in?
No, once the password is changed, the authentication token is changed.
You need to enter the new password on the device for the new authentication token, and to do that, the device needs to be unlocked.
>>53073702
They want the passcode to the phone used by the San Bernardino shooters. That's all. They aren't asking for a custom ROM.
The government in the United States is effectively technologically illiterate. They have no idea how anything in the modern world works beyond the level of a toddler playing with colored blocks.
I'm sorry, but this whole thing is messed up.
>be in sterile lab with no outside connections
>cookup unique firmware for specific phone
>remove software constraints on bruteforcing
>bruteforce the phone
>clone the data
>give the FBI a digital image
>nuke the fuck out of the computer they cooked the firmware up on
>drop a 2tonne magnet on the actual iphone
>Burn the fucking lab to the ground
???
>FBI now has access to information that may prove crucial to national security
>no one has a copy of the firmware, which was unique to that one phone anyway
I genuinely want to know how this doesn't make sense?
>>53077557
Ask Hillary Clinton what she thinks about the Linux kernel and she'd probably say something about how she loves fried chicken.
>>53073782
this
>>53077558
Apple wouldn't be able to PR white knight with that scenario.
>>53077558
>>FBI now has access to information that may prove crucial to national security
lmao, mong's actually believe this
>>53077591
Surely they could spin it another way for positive PR. Agree to do it in exchange the FBI praises you on how hard it was for them to access it, and how important apple was to national security.
>>53077608
I would argue we have no idea if there is anything useful on that phone.
But there is a decent chance there is, and in this circumstance I think it is a nobrainer that the moral thing to do is to help the FBI to access that phone.
