Educate me /g/ , if Parabola linux uses it. It can't be that bad.
Because it's convenient, it's included in all the main distros and it takes more effort to run a system without it. So there is extra nerd cred to have a distro without it because it demands effort.
Systemd also breaks the unix philosophy of "doing ONE thing and do it well" systemd does many different things.
>>52172838
Its part of the Red Hat program to destabilize Linux security to make mass hacking of non-cooperating OSes possible for the NSA. Next is kdbus.
>>52172838
Every day we have this thread, EVERY DAY. Are you not yet tired of making this thread again and again OP?
>>52172838
It has everything incl. the kitchen sink.
>something something muh philosophy something something
I don't hate the idea of systemd, I just hate lennart for being a piece of shit developer that doesn't want to fix his own stupid bugs. I'm certain there were other points of interest with it, but staying with sysVinit isn't the right answer either.
>>52172878
I never see this thread as often as you suggest. I can't remember seeing one at all recently. But I only recently started to care about this "issue" so I probably just scrolled past all systemd threads.
>>52172878
Its a strawman so that a fellow op can post the "correct" answer:
>systemd is perfectly fine
>it makes things simpler
>only stupid nerds hate it
Disregard the fact that security and performance for systemd all goes downhill, and that it was introduced by a company that makes most of its money with the government.
>>52172940
kek
Because some people need arbitrary reason to jump the hate bandwagon.
Number one dumb reason behind hating systemd is
>MUH UNIX WAY
Actual freetards have no reason to hate systemd (and they don't) because it's entirely free software, licensed under gpl/lgpl.
The only valid criticism of systemd comes from the fact that because it's such a big project that tries to do a lot of things at once, the chances of introducing a bug critical to the security of the entire thing are bigger.
>>52172987
That is reason enough
>>52173028
Of course it is a reason.
But the same reason could be applied to the kernel itself, yet I don't see massive amounts of anti-linux *bsd/minix shilling
Does anyone use dmd or is it still even in development?
>>52172838
Cause I've spent the better part of the last 15 months rewriting everything in our companies codebase not to fucking break with systemd. Yeah if I had written everything myself it would only take minor tweaks, but legacy codebases fucking suck.
>>52174083
I can sympathize with this. Systemd was kind of just dumped on everyone in a sort of "adapt or die" fashion. However, I believe it was ultimately the right choice to move in this direction.
>>52172838
>freetards hate systemd
Why would they? It is free as in freedom.
>>52173070
In all fairness though, the kernel goes through Linus. Poettering is not a great programmer and he is terrible about enforcing rigorous standards.
Systemd is, security wise, on a very similar level to the kernel. That legitimately terrifies me. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate the idea of systemd, just the same as I don't hate the concept of pulse audio. I hate Poettering, because he is provably a terrible person to have leading a project.
Linus is a downright cunt about stuff sometimes, but sometimes you need a heavy hand to keep a project on track and in scope. Code overall be objectively better if every major project had someone like linus who could call out bullshit and refuse to accept it.
>>52174162
But why was it so widely adopted among distro mantainers and developers?
You'd think that if it offered no advantages, people wouldn't rely on systemd thus not breaking further updates of their software on distributions without systemd?
>>52174367
I'm simply pointing out that some people may be mad because they had the rug pulled out from under them when Linux moved to systemd. These people would potentially have a lot of work ahead of them after such a drastic change. I am in support of systemd otherwise.
>>52174443
Well yeah.
Sucks to be them I guess.
>>52174209
what programming language is this?
>>52172838
Simple.
Less secure by default due to extreme complexity. Not modular, monolithic. Causes dependencies. Developed by company with ties to the NSA and the government.
>>52172987
>The only valid criticism of systemd is my uneducated opinion
Sorry, but I don't want systemcancer to do things I would rather use other pieces of software to accomplish. It's also a safety hazard to run such a large pile of shit with maximum privileges, even if they are dropped at some point, because privilege escalation is a thing, and Linux doesn't have pledge(2), and Harry Poettering wouldn't implement it if it did.
What distros don't use systemd? I'm ready to graduate from mint.
>>52172867
>unix philosophy
DEPRECATED
>>52172838
Lennart has, several times now, discussed using systemd as a way to push his political ideologies and how they'll eventually be inextricably tied.
I shouldn't have to worry about my software caring about my politics.
>>52172838
systemd scripts > sysvinit scripts
>>52174978
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>52172838
because your maymay is a red-hat shill and a third-party NSA collaborator
he gets <See: IMG> for destroying Linux Community from the inside.
By suppoerting poettering you do harm to humanity as a whoele
>>52175105
I think like gentoo and one other distro don't use it by default
It's on wikipedia
>>52175327
you sir are shilling badly
>>52172952
Shit yeah. I haven't seen init flame war in /g/ in long time. Excited!
>>52172867
>effort
>good
Systemd is open source, isn't it?
Where are the backdoors and shit then?
Has there been an audit?
>>52172867
Technically the GNU+Linux kernel breaks the UNIX philosophy too. You can't just swap out the kernel for a BSD variant and be done with it. The kernel is modular but designed to work as a system. You could write new daemons for systemd, but it would be a pain in the ass keeping up with RedHat.
>>52172882
No, it has sinkd and coming soon disposald.
>>52172940
Surely he can't be that much of an ass, though. Anyone got specific examples?
Also, anyone heard of StaLi Linux? It's made by the suckless devs who also make dwm.
>>52172838
>>52175362
See:
>>>>>52174799
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>52175401
Open source as a security guarantee is silly since a proper cryptographic audit is very expensive and brittle.
On side note, what do you think about this:
http://0pointer.net/blog/projects/stateless.html
http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html
I honestly find both ideas, especially the second one, fantastic. The first one makes sense as /etc was never meant to store defaults and documentation, but it's not gonna be fixed as that would require to patch every software package. The second one has some important things missing*, but otherwise it sounds damn good.
* Like how to turn upstream sources into images? Shouldn't there also be etc: image along with home: image?
>>52175430
>since a proper cryptographic audit is very expensive and brittle
Crowdfund it or accept systemd as your Lord and Master.
>>52175481
Allowing developers to package all their dependencies is hot shit right now but mark my words, in 5-10 years *everyone* will be sick of it and people are going to ask: how could we allow this mess to happen. Then someone does a distro that says: "Fuck pre-packaged software, here's everything forced to use the same libraries again" and people will prais it as the next big thing.
>>52175590
You didn't read the whole article. He's not suggesting App model. The images would have standard dependencies as (runtime: and framework: as *-devel).
>>52175481
only deluded fags read that shit
deal with reality you're a deluded beta faggot
>>52175590
Also, making upstream package their shit just removes the middle man. The distribution could still list upstream software like it does with packages but without the hassle of their own infrastructure.
Though this posses some problems like inability to enforce hardened binaries.
>>52175590
Human '"Evolution'" in a single post
>>52172838
>Why do freetards hate systemd?
Because that's what freetards do. They hate things like actual freedom and puppies. It also may have something to do with the nsa backdoor in systemd and the linux kernels binary blobs.
>>52175615
fuck off degenerate fuck
>>52175676
fuck off retardo
The most vocal haters usually do not contribute anything to free software.
>>52175327
Only Gentoo and Funtoo, Mangina gives official support for it too, but it's not installed by default.
It's not "freetards" who complain, but your usual run-of-the-mill white angry right-wing heterosexual males.
Just ignore them, their time has ended.
>>52175724
fuck you
Guix master race.
>>52175792
Uhhh, the alt-right is growing in all western nations except Canada & New Zealand .
>>52175548
Niether faggot. I choose the sane option instead of your stupidity.
>>52175792
What does political affiliation or race have to do with criticism of a monolithic init system?
>>52175714
Thanks for proving my point you puppy hating nsa shill.
>>52176013
International-Jewry want more Kontrolle.
>>52176013
Show me a critic of systemd who isn't an angry white heterosexual male right-winger. You can't.
>>52176013
It's called a troll. They just threw in the white guy thing because its easy.
>>52172987
>supporting a Windows style spaghetti code development model unironically
>>52176105
Show me someone who actually seen you in person, not including your mom.
>>52176105
sure.
>>52176105
Okay I'll bite. I'm Indian and I think openrc is superior to systemd.
>>52176105
Like 99% of people who use linux are white males though.
>>52176152
Proof?
It tries to standardize linux, some people don't realize that's a good thing.
Red Hat saw that there were too many implementations of common system functions and their development and support wasn't always stable so they decided to take it on themselves. Systemd unifies system applications under a common codebase with a common group of developers. In the end systemd was designed and built for Red Hat's use though. Red Hat wanted something they could actually provide support for, rather than using a patchwork of bash scripts and under-maintained hobbyware applications.
Of course the hobbyware crowd(mostly archfags) are upset about this.
>>52176185
>mostly archfags
Arch uses systemd.
>>52176152
[jewtation needed]
>>52176204
Former archfags I meant.
>>52176185
sure.
>>52176105
not subtle enough desu
>>52176216
yeah.
>>52176185
>It tries to standardize linux, some people don't realize that's a good thing.
yeah, that's really not a good thing when RH is the one making a blob of code that continues to absorb core functionality and grow in size
>>52172867
>systemd breaks the unix philosophy
kek.
Do you have anything to back this up or are you just spouting nonsense?
The development seems very unix like
>>52176275
Like the linux kernel?
Red Hat is one of the largest if not the largest contributor to the kernel itself, if you're not comfortable with RH it's probably best that you move on to another OS entirely.
>>52175418
>Surely he can't be that much of an ass, though. Anyone got specific examples?
Pulseaudio
Everything he touches he shits on till its no longer possible to maintain and then passes it off to some miserable soul
>>52175650
WHy should i have double packages because some new fangled "innovation" comes through.Should i just not have the libs on my end and just only ever wait for software that needs it to provide it? shall i link other softwares libs to other software?
Why should i have 2/3/4 copies of libs and other shit.Its a waste of space and pointless.
Obligatory
>>52176316
RH does not have a final say in what gets inserted into the kernel. They don't have the room to play a game of invasive development with the kernel like they do with systemd.
Having major OS functionality being absorbed into one project, that is getting harder and harder to audit as the codebase continue to grow is a security and trust nightmare
>>52176297
Just standard neckbeard nonsense.
>>52176241
Produce my results or shut up:
>>52176152
>>52176147
>>52176143
>>52176142
>>52176013
>>52175985
>>52175809
>>52172867
>Systemd also breaks the unix philosophy of "doing ONE thing and do it well" systemd does many different things.
Did you ever take a look at how systemd works? It's a daemon that handles modules. The modules do the shit. End of story.
Systemd not being unix-like is just FUD from oldfags who don't like new stuff.
>>52176438
SystemD is literally a fucking back door you idiot.
>>52176431
they bite too easy these days...
>>52176464
Ya got some proof for that?
>>52176464
[citation needed]
Found the backdoor:int link_send_changed(Link *link, const char *property, ...) {
_cleanup_free_ char *p = NULL;
char **l;
assert(link);
assert(link->manager);
if (!link->manager->bus)
return 0; /* replace with assert when we have kdbus */
l = strv_from_stdarg_alloca(property);
p = link_bus_path(link);
if (!p)
return -ENOMEM;
return sd_bus_emit_properties_changed_strv(
link->manager->bus,
p,
"org.freedesktop.network1.Link",
l);
}
>>52174259
> Code overall be objectively better if every major project had someone like linus who could call out bullshit and refuse to accept it
I agree, though it's important not to confuse the behavior with the methodology behind it. There are a lot of tin-pot cargo-cult dictators in the FOSS world, people who act like jackasses because they see Linus do it and think "Aha, I can achieve enlightenment by being mean!" Except Linus is not indiscriminate, he knows when to use management by perkele and when not to.
>>52176534
That's network manager you tard.
Another backdoor found:const NetDevVTable gretap_vtable = {
.object_size = sizeof(Tunnel),
.init = gre_init,
.sections = "Match\0NetDev\0Tunnel\0",
.fill_message_create = netdev_gre_fill_message_create,
.create_type = NETDEV_CREATE_STACKED,
.config_verify = netdev_tunnel_verify,
};
>>52174367
Laziness of the packagers, basically.
>>52176566
Quite true.
>>52176297
Now if something breaks,you have to check 2-5 places to find some obscure file that might be breaking.Then you have to find the exact systemd-* obscure service name.
There is no cron.Only inefficient "timers".
Not to mention all core settings are set in different files,consisting of 5-12 characters,instead of one(time,ntp,locale,etc)
It is a monolithic process that tries to do everything(usurped udev,polkit),and causes a clusterfuck when things go wrong.It is a pointless task that is only making configuration obscure.Not to mention there is so many places it can break,and you'll be none the wiser as you cheack hundreds of journald retarded logging
Monolithic is the correct design for this kind of project.
>>52176830
More reason to abort.
Check pulseaudio
>>52176893
>>52176431
>Moooommm, there not listening to me!
Time for a timeout Brandon.
>>52176431
>>52176960
My point exactly,hes all in control of it.Pulseaudio is the biggest failure the past 1 decades.You cant honestly tell me its not a flaming piece of shit from poettering
>>52177097
I don't like that I have to get up PulseAudio Volume Control when playing movies through HDMI on my laptop and manually change audio output every time.
Why can't it work automagically like in Windows?
>>52177154
Check out alsa
>>52177175
I fear I'll break something.
>>52177227
no worse then pulse breaking,cracking,and faulting when you're using it
>>52177276
So... zypper remove pulseaudio* && zypper install alsa*?
>>52177332
*alsa-lib
>>52172838
Because it makes running Linux more like windows, in the sense that you can now end programs very effectively from both command line and through the GUI. That kind of thing poses a major security risk.
>>52176668
So optimized log files are bad, readable config files is bloat, the timers make more sense, but I understand why you would keep using cron if you spend a lot of time to learn that.
Since I don't experience a crash more than once a year, I found systemd to be easier to understand, easier to optimize, and easier to use.
And having all the different projects maintained under the same repo just makes sense.
Unix did the same thing, to make sure everything worked.
>>52177735
So you enjoy backdoors?
>>52176534
>>52176618
>it's monolithic
Why do you use the Linux then, and not Mach?
>>52177476
>you can now end programs very effectively from both command line and through the GUI. That kind of thing poses a major security risk.
>>52178039
I had a dream about cats last night. Ended with one of the kittens bouncing up the furniture and giving me a hug while I was resting.
>>52176534
>>52176618
>claim he found backdoors
>doesn't even bother explaining
Confirmed for a retard grabbing a piece of code at random and saying "BEHOLD! LE SISTEMD HAZ BACKDOOR! TRUST ME!"
>>52177871
I use XNU
>>52178368
I just wanted to encourage an involuntary audit or something. Sorry, anon...
>meanwhile i enjoy runit
Windows master race reporting in
>>52177097
>>52177154
I don't understand. Pulseaudio has magically worked perfectly fine for me for all these years. How do people end up with broken audio?
>>52178795
I didn't say it was broken, just that it's annoying that it doesn't work automagically.
>>52178839
But it literally works automagically for me.
>>52178855
How? Why? If I don't use the manager, the audio blasts from the speakers.
>>52172838
>if Parabola linux uses it. It can't be that bad.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
>>52178881
Dunno, it's always switched to HDMI for me by itself. Maybe if you set it to the default.
>>52178910
Where do I unset it?
>>52178939
If you open up pavucontrol and go to output devices, you should see checkmarks or whatever the symbol is for you icon theme to select a default output device.
>>52178966
Can I hug you?
>>52178702
void linux bro?
>>52179033
yup
>>52172878
>complaining about the quality of posts on the #debian-women IRC channel
>>52172956
>security and performance
>init scripts that are 90% boilerplate
>bug in boilerplate means that you have to fix hundred of files by hand
>>52175105
>>52175327
>>52175767
Don't forget Slackware and PCLinuxOS
>>52175105
If you are looking to graduate from Mint, then you should give *ntoo a try. If you want something that just works go with PCLinuxOS,
>>52172867
i dont hate systemd at all, and I use it because it's there already, but to be honest openrc is sooo much easier than running systemd
it "just werks" tm
>>52183729
This. Literally have had 0 problems ever with openrc and it's easy af to use. Meanwhile systemd wants to be a dependency for everything and causes blocked packages while updating all the fucking time.
>>52172987
It contains a bug that will not let my comuter power off after shutdown.
i reported it and its not resolved so fuck them
Unix philosophy do one thing and do it well.
SystemD philosophy try to do everything and do it poorly.
