is hyperthreading a meme? when the fuck will games take advantage of it?
i dont hear any game developers even talking about hyperthreading or 8 cores...
memuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
>>51927138
>games don't use it means it's a meme
>>51927138
Games will take advantage of it, since it's just extra threads. It's not nearly as good as having actual extra physical cores, though, so if a game needs 4 threads and you own a quad-core, it probably won't use HT, and with good reason.
>>51927113
Hyperthreading is a meme.
Zen uses hyperthreading.
Zen is a meme
>>51927138
Having HT is better than not having having HT, but actual physical cores are even better.
Also
>video games
Lmao
>>51927138
Games that take advantage of hyperthreading are games that take advantage of multiple threads, meaning they take even more advantage of more cores. So the day games take advantage of hyperthreading is also the day AMD hexadecacore processors outperform your trash i7 anyway. Get meme'd, sucker.
>>51927303
Unless it means lower clock speeds to get there
is it a meme now to be calling things a meme?
>>51928475
Yes
>>51928475
Is this question a meme?
>>51927138
AAA titles still struggle to use real multicore cpu let alone some fake core option.
Dont fool yourself its all marketing.
>>51928502
Is the world a meme?
>>51928549
yes
Contrary to popular belief, computers aren't only used for video games you fucking man child. I play video games and this fucking triggered me.
>>51927138
Games already do take advantage of it and it provides nice gains in CPU-limited scenarios.
>>51928640
>>51928647
A 2600K outperforms a 4670K at the same clock speed in every case, despite the IPC deficit.
>>51928640
>>51928647
>>51928652
Notice HoW AMDs module approach had nice linear scaling unlike jewtel.
All they had to do is make a 16 core FX that costed less or the same as intel enthusiasts cpus and they would have won. Even 12 would have likely put them in the lead.
>>51927138
Game logic is something that inherently doesn't lend well to multi-threading, especially since most games simply react to the player's input, rather than doing anything on their own.
City-building and strategy games come closest to actually making a case for having more cores, but realistically a quad-core is more than enough for playability.
For a time it was thought that things like physics and other real-time simulations would make use of the CPU in games, but it turns out that the GPU is better for that as well anyway, thus stuff like audio ray-tracing for spatial simulation is done using GPU compute during free cycles when your GPU is idling between frames, and of course Physx on Nvidia cards.
Even when companies like Bethesda and Ubisoft promise you the moon when talking about all their fancy dynamic weather and AI simulations, the fact is that those kinds of games release dumbed down with none of those features left in. Many AAA developers today are already losing money on their DLC-fests, the last thing they need is gloating about features that in retrospect would not work on the machines of 80%+ of their consumer base.
>>51928683
>I don't know how CPU fabrication works.
Yeah, moar cores was definitely the solution, faggot. A 440W 16 core Vishera would just be the bee's knees.
>>51928724
In sorry you're poor and can't afford a good power supply. Also if you don't think its possible to get that many cores on a chip just look at server chips.
Anything above 4 threads has limited use outside of virtualization. However having 2 threads is also bad because many programs and vydias are designed to function on 4 threads. This is why Pentiums are a piece of shit.
>>51928724
More cores works just fine for super computers. Maybe gaymening is the problem here.
>>51928454
TOP FUCKING KEK!
You're a nice shill aren't you Nigel.
>>51928740
I realize they have 16 core opterons but they're also clocked low and come on a completely different socket. They're also like $800 and still get bodied by Xeons. My power supply is fine, thanks.
>>51928783
Maybe, or maybe you're just in the wrong thread.
>>51928683
AMD could've made a CPU that's 100x better than intel and still lost.
AMD just doesn't have the marketing. which the mass amount of idiots fall for.
hey guys, i'm new here. what exactly is a meme?
>>51928873
snoop dogg was wondering the same thing
>>51928822
Good anon, your gaymes aren't the problem it's the consumers chip.
>>51928785
>I have no idea how threads work
>>51928946
>I have no idea what hyperthreading is
>>51928520
Yeah right go watch a video of witcher 3 cpu comparison around novigrad
>>51928822
>says power supply is fine
>complains about a CPU using 440w
Obviously it's not fine if you have to worry about wattage. More cores *should* mean better performance, but for whatever reason game devs don't think using more than 4 cores is a good thing for whatever reason.
>>51927138
Hyperthreading is kinda shit since even though you get2 threads on a core, they share the L1 cache so it gives a constant stream of cache misses. Extra cores with regular multithreading is better, so every thread has its own L1 cache.
>games
enjoy your childhood while it lasts
>>51929005
Yes, yes we know.
Grown up men like you only play with pony plushies and tiling window managers.
>Everybody is clapping
>AMD CEO on Stage
>"Hey everyone"
>"We are proud to announce that we are unvealing a new series of desktop processors"
>"Now having 12+ cores and threads!"
>"And we have finally been able to match the performence of Sandy Bridge!"
>Everyone claps, because moar cores are the best
>>51929065
>thought process of the typical gamer child
>>51928975
Do you? With hyperthreading you can execute some instructions of two threads on one core at the same time, i.e. while one thread is fetching a variable the other thread can use the ALU. Most of the times though you can't schedule these operations so that they fit perfectly together, so one hyperthreaded core will always be inferior to two physical cores.
So again: hyperthreading is useless without multiple threads and shit with multiple threads, compared to a MOAR COARS AMD CPU.
>>51929110
>Typical Gamer Child
I don't even game much, I'm sure you do.
Sorry, that your life has gone to shit. You dirty neckbearded shill.
>>51928988
My point had nothing to do with power draw and more to do with the heat and design limitations of Piledriver. 8 core 9590s that people overclock to 4.7 Ghz just to compete with stock i5 IPC for games are already 220W+ nuclear reactors that need aftermarket liquid cooling just to function. The idea that for AMD to win in the last generation meant they "only" needed to come out with a 16 core variant of AM3+ is hilarious.
The funny thing is that if they physically could have done it, they probably would have.
>>51929136
Literally this.
Why is everything a fucking meme now?
Also when Highend CPUs from 4 years ago can still run ever game at max settings why does this feature matter for gaming?
>>51929112
yes, I do; nice blog, fgt
>>51928581
No you are not a meme
>>51928978
whatever
Okay so I get a fucking i5 or is an i3 enough for gayman
I need a goddamn answer already
>>51929502
The i5 would be better if you could afford it.
>>51929502
get amd, both the mobo and cpu will cost half while performing better in games that aren't unoptimized piles of trash.
while at the same time it allows you to spend more money on other things, like a better GPU, which is what really matter when gaymen.
>>51930051
>Encouraging someone to get a fx processor literally a year before zen is released
You must be trolling
>>51930051
>performing better in games that aren't unoptimized piles of trash
Which is pretty much none of them. This is why you buy an intel CPU if the main purpose of the PC is playing games.
>>51929344
Wow great riposte.
>>51928640
>2500k and 2600k still up near the top
>at stock clocks when they easily go 4,5-4,8ghz with minimal vcore increase
Why the fuck anyone would shekkel up for new gpus with muh hyperdreading and muh non existant performance is beyond me.
>>51931661
new cpus*
>>51929173
they don't run everything at 144memeHz on the newest curved meme OLED meme Display, not even with the latest memeVidia quadruple meme SLI and fastest sniper memeory
>>51930172
lel, remember when bulldozer was only a year away?
>>51927138
Does anyone who does music production notice much improvement in DAW performance with hyperthreading?
Got a i5 4460 and not sure if I regret it since it's not hyperthreading
>>51931935
I doubt it. With a DAW, most of the CPU will be used by all the different simultaneous signal processing tasks. Since all of these tasks likely have no branching and use the ALU/FPU to their full extent, there won't be any resources for HT to share.
>>51931961
Is this a new meme?
>>51930051
>>51930454
I hate the video game industry.
>>51931895
Staph. Don't kill my last hope for AMD. Please.
>>51927138
as soon as some new tech by jewtel shows up.
IT'S A MEME YOU DIP
>>51927303
>Having HT is better than not having having HT, but actual physical cores are even better.
Hyper threading is like trying to lift 100kg with one arm, instead of two, you're splitting resources for a single application.
>>51928683
>16 core FX
600 watts
What's the point of Zen if the best case scenario is that it might match first gen Haswell performance meanwhile Intel will be on a Skylake refresh and roll out Broadwell-E?
>>51933831
Cheaper prices.
>>51933831
Zen will be half the cost compared to a broadwell-e for starters and most intel chips. If you want just raw powerful without caring about cost then you're doing it wrong anyway by even thinking about AMD or Intel non-xeon chips.
>>51933831
The difference is that zen is on par IPC with a haswell and has double the core count making it way better than has well in reality. Not to mention cost/performance.
>>51927138
today I learned that everything is a meme
>>51927138
>is hyperthreading a meme?
No.
>when the fuck will games take advantage of it?
Who the fuck cares? Hyperthreading is not catered to greasy basement dwellers, but to people that actually do things with their computers.
>>51928475
It's been done
You could always compile the games from source code that have it if they're free as in freedom.
>>51934087
Hyperthreading IS a meme because cpu intensive tasks like video encoding and ray tracing don't give a fuck if you have 4 or 8 threads running. They will max out however many threads you give them.
The only somewhat good use I can think of is running VMs.
>>51934145
They why does vRay render around 40% Faster on an i7 with 4 cores and IT than on an FX with 8 cores, you dumb nigger?
>>51934293
Source? Multi-core performance difference is only like 15% between the two processors at the same frequency.
>>51929136
>for games
Point discarded.
>>51927138
>games
>>>/v/
>>51934338
*25%
sorry
>>51934338
>>51934410
http://www.evermotion.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?106109-3DMAX-Vray-benchmark-test
>>51934421
Nobody used the same type of RAM. This test is complete garbage.
>>51934535
>RAM
>Vray
Kek.
>>51934553
Ray tracing performance can be affect by RAM speed/capacity and whether it's in dual channel mode or not. This test is meaningless especially since a 4-core i7 outperforms a 6-core i7 clocked higher.
>>51934633
>4-core i7 outperforms a 6-core i7 clocked higher
>>51934737
That's why he's saying it's a bad test you moron
>>51934828
>That's why he's saying it's a bad test you moron
oh
>>51934293
There's no FX with 8 cores. The best FX has 4 modules each with 2 int units and 1 gimped fpu unit
While amd may think fpu operations are a joke they are not and especially if your task is modeling for fucks sake.
>>51935026
So a cpu core is traditionally 1 IPU + 1 FPU?
>>51935117
No, not technically. You could have a very old cpu where fpu didn't even exist in the cores. But if you compare current intel to current amd then yeah a core should be 1 int unit and 1 fpu unit.
Also typically a core has its own L1 cache and the L2/L3 are shared among them above that.
>>51935026
Each module has two cores that share an FPU. Two CPU cores, one FPU.
By your logic FPUless CPUs are not CPUs.
>>51935582
See >>51935197
No matter how you look at it amd "cores" are gimped compared to an Intel core that doesn't share fpu between multiple ones.
>>51935751
They're different than Intel cores, that doesn't make them not cores.
>>51935786
If you're not going to agree upon a definition of what a core should have then your comparison of "amd 8 core" to "intel 4 core" is meaningless.
You can try to be an amd shill all you want and try and act like fpus should not be part of a core but in the end your amd cpu is physically gimped compared to an Intel.
Everything on this board is meme unless it is cheap or free.
>>51928475
Ask yourself: what ISN'T a meme? Isn't "learning" a meme? You repeat things that you are told by others. Isn't life itself a meme? It's basically memetic repetition, it undergoes evolution (just as memes do) by adapting to different environments. If exposed to environments that are never put to the test (echo chambers), life (memes) stagnate and become boring and worthless.
Reality is one big meme.
>>51935866
Ultrawide LGs are the most meme
>>51935823
It's an 8 core CPU with 4 FPUs vs 4 core CPU with 4 FPUs. FPU count is irrelevant, we're talking CPU cores which FPUs are not.
>>51935889
>FPU count is irrelevant
Not when your target application is fpu heavy like any modeling. You might as well go give yourself a "I'm a retard" shirt if you actually thiNK you're smart by claiming amd should do betterm in fpu heavy software because muh 8 cores.
And you're wrong. The FPU in intel chips are part of their cores. They are not separate entities shared like amd modules. They are part of the core.
>>51935944
8-core Zen will BTFO of jewtel.
>>51935944
>when doing FPU intensive tasks I want more FPUs
Well no fucking shit
>And you're wrong.
No I'm not.
>The FPU in intel chips are part of their cores
Each core may have an FPU but that doesn't make it part of a core, just means the core has a dedicated FPU to play with.
>They are part of the core.
No, they just work with the cores.
They are not separate entities shared like amd modules. They are part of the core.
Hyperthreading is just smart hardware scheduling at a base level, which is why these virtual cores give such poor scaling compared to simply having the extra hardware.
Hyperthreading is a fairly clever way to expose unused cpu resources to the OS but its no substitute for more hardware, hence why their enthusiast chips and xeons keep increasing the physical core count (and naturally their hyperthreading as its all tied together) and why desktop chips haven't - the typical pleb does not need to care for the difference between 4 cores/8threads compared to simply having 8 cores. It does mean for certain workloads AMD's chips are blisteringly quick but equally every architecture has its weaknesses.
Everytime I look in the passmark benchmarks the hyperthreading seems to add like 1/4 of extra performance per core, like 1000 points 1 core becomes 1250 with hyperthreading, it's pretty nice I guess
>>51935988
Just give up, you're arguing with a guy who's made up his mind. When his main argument is
>You're just wrong and so is the entire tech industry for calling the AMD modules two cores
Then you know there really isn't all that much to talk about. He may very well just be trolling you at this point.
>>51936013
It's claimed to add "up to 40%" more performance.
Keep in mind that this is multithreaded performance, not single threaded. Also, please keep in mind that even looking at pissmark is a since and you should probably leave /g/ forever for even having considered using their figures.
>>51936070
>since
Sin. Stupid ducking autocorrect.
>>51936070
>someone does one thing supposedly wrong
>they must be completely incapable and stupid at any other thing
you have a condition called splitting, seek professional help
>>51927138
>is hyperthreading a meme? when the fuck will games take advantage of it?
How are games going to take advantage of hyperthreading?
Hyperthreading is just simultaneous execution of particular combinations of instructions in the pipelines. It's not an additional core. There's just some probability that the coincidental combinations will occur, and there's nothing that game developers can really do to increase the likelihood.
>>51936098
There is this thing called a "joke". It's a rather old fashioned concept. In this case I was deliberately exaggerating something in an attempt to make light of it.
>>51936161
>getting defensive
checked
>calling the other unable to spot jokes in order to save ego
checked
damn, it's pretty serious, you're a broken as hell son, go to a shrink
>>51935988
>Each core may have an FPU but that doesn't make it part of a core,
> just means the core has a dedicated FPU to play with.
You are literally retarded.
AMD is the only shit company that separated the FPU out of their core pipeline to be shared. Just because AMD did it doesn't mean the FPUs now become a separate entity.
Face it AMD shill, your company has no fucking clue what it's doing compared to Intel that realizes the FP unit is a vital part of the pipeline and keeps it within each core.
>>51936042
And we know you have little experience with CPU architecture.
Enjoy shilling for a shit company .
>>51935985
How exactly is Zen an improvement? Can someone explain this to me? All that picture shows is that they removed 2 Integer Scheduler Pipelines, combined the 6 remaining and then combined the Decode.
Where is the improvement?
>>51936182
This is quite interesting, I joke about making a joke and you just get more annoyed. I'm normally not a very antagonistic person but I'm committing your trip to memory for being an easy trolling target in future.
Sorry you didn't catch the joke, I thought calling it a sin would have made it obvious. Also thought using quotation marks would have made the second one obvious. Guess it's cultural.
>>51936245
>implying I'm an AMD shill
I don't even have any AMD CPUs, I'm just informing a retard of his retardation.
>>51936245
Don't worry anon, when zen comes out amd users will consider the FPU part of cores again just like they did before bulldozer.
>>51936282
That picture is one zen core against two excavator cores.
>>51936291
>even more attempts to devalue in order to protect ego and projecting butthurt on me
I love this, it's like I am a visitor at a zoo and observing, I am amused. Keep raging friend.
>>51936332
Alright then. For future reference, how do you want me to mark jokes? Will the carat nose smiley suffice or do I need to start using emojis?
>>51936328
I get that, but I mean 1 zen is basically just the same as two excavator cores with the decode combined and 2 less integer pipelines. So should i expect Quad core Zen to barely be an improvement?
>>51936370
Next time just don't do the "i was merely pretending to be retarded" meme, try to own up to your mistakes and be less sensitive. It's kind of embarrassing.
>>51936383
>So should i expect Quad core Zen to barely be an improvement?
If we're only counting the physical threads, I suppose you could say that.
This brings with it seriously improved single core performance though. There's also the matter of AMDs version of hyperthreading as well. I expect a quad core zen to fall only slightly behind a theoretical eight core excavator that was never produced, but only in terms of multithreaded performance.
>>51936444
>tripfag being retarded
typical.
>>51936461
>ur retarded!!!!111 >:(
I miss being 5.
>>51936444
That's not even "I was pretending to be retarded"
Are you fresh from /b/? You do realise that /g/ is quite a bit more friendly and most people here can take a joke. You've just made yourself a target for every single troll in this thread, joking aside I seriously suggest that you get a new trip to mitigate that.
>>51936448
I feel like AMD is going to jew us now. I mean think about it. a 4-core FX right now will only be a dual-core in Zen. An 8-core FX will be a 4-core Zen. I bet the prices will be similar as well compared to FX launch and the 8-core zen will be way to costly.
>>51936490
How's it like being 4? Maybe you'll dream about 5 again tonight.
>>51930853
>caring about some portion of one game
WOW WHAT A RETARD
YOU FUCKING AUTISTIC SHIT GET BACK TO YOUR GAMES YOU FUCKING SCUM
>>51936504
>a 4-core FX right now will only be a dual-core in Zen. An 8-core FX will be a 4-core Zen.
I seriously doubt that. They're not in a market position to jew anyone. I really doubt they'll be able to sell a dual core at quad core prices, though I do expect them to raise their prices to cover the increased cost of the new fab.
>>51936588
Even as of right now Intel's quadcores are priced very similar to intels i3 duel cores. I doubt they'll sell quad-core zens at the same price when a quad-core zen is 2 more actual cores/modules compared to current 4-quad bulldozer based ones.
>>51936642
No offence but your post is so mangled it took me three attempts to figure out what you meant.
I doubt they'll be selling dual cores at i3 money. They'll almost certainly have that aimed at the pentium segment with the quad cores at i3 level and octo cores at i5 level or slightly above. Keep in mind that Intel has been slowly raising prices with each generation so that should give AMDS some wiggle room.
>>51936525
So you're getting shat on by someone 1 year younger by you? Lol I feel sorry for you bud
>>51936689
Let me draw picture for you.
Currently a 2-core Zen would be the same size of a 4-core cuckdozer when scaled to the die size. So a 4-core Zen would be more like a 8-core cuckdozer.
So what i'm saying is I bet 4-core will be priced like 8-core bulldozer and the 8-core Zen will be even more priced.
>>51936754
Only took you 15 min to come up with that pisspoor line, tripfag.
>>51936784
Meanwhile it took you instantly to reply to mine even after 15 mins, you must be real desperate for my attention, low self-esteem fag.
>>51936838
Says a tripfag looking for attention, maybe someday you'll get old enough to know about extensions that let you know when posts are made.
>>51933764
Implying 99% of the code you run is able to fill up the pipeline. Shit, most of the time your cpu spends executing your shit code is spent on busy waiting and context switching you indo shitcode runner.
>>51936855
Anon just stop, you just got rekt twice
>>51936870
you forgot your trip, faggot.
>>51936838
Not him but I did warn you. You've set yourself up as one of the most trollable people on /g/.
>>51935197
There's a bit more to a core than that you filthy tard.
>>51936885
I'm not the tripfag. Seriously man the tripfag won, don't make things harder on yourself.
>>51936942
>HTML is hard to edit man
First time on /g/, huh?
>>51936771
>So what i'm saying is I bet 4-core will be priced like 8-core bulldozer and the 8-core Zen will be even more priced.
And what I'm saying is that AMD are not in a market position to price their products lime that. Also, with the smaller node, one zen core will be significantly smaller than a piledriver module.
Fuck you memers. Make a virtual box and be dudes with friends instead of whcking it to 2d ponies and eating hot pockets
>>51936955
I'm on clover you dipshit. How the fuck do I edit html on an android app? God, stop being so fucking pathetic anon. Accept your loses like a man.
>>51936960
>one zen core will be significantly smaller than a piledriver module.
Yes but the die size is also going to be smaller
>>51936987
Not that guy but you'd be more convincing if you changed your writing style when you dropped the trip. It's very... distinctive.
>>51936987
>look daddy i opened my tablet to prove im not a tripfag.
>>51936992
>Yes but the die size is also going to be smaller
Yes. And? I'm not entirely sure I follow your point here.
>>51936987
Let him tell himself whatever it makes him feel better about being buttblasted anon, <3
>>51937017
The zen core is smaller because it has to be scaled down to fit the die size.
>>51937007
Holy shit anon, where did it all go wrong?
ITT: People who don't know what hyperthreading is.
>>51928475
your a meme
>>51928699
good post, thank you anon
>>51937042
Again, I agree with you there but that does not make Zen more expensive. What are you trying to get at?
>>51937127
>>51935882
If to dream is to live, then to meme is to die
>>51937150
State your point clearly so that I may either clearly agree or disagree with you. I understand that there is a language barrier for you here, what's your native language? Perhaps I might understand that better.
>>51937212
הם היהודים
Good for simulations and video editing, not good for gamez.
>>51934145
When execution resources would not be used by the current task in a processor without hyper-threading, and especially when the processor is stalled, a hyper-threading equipped processor can use those execution resources to execute another scheduled task. (The processor may stall due to a cache miss, branch misprediction, or data dependency.)
>>51937504
Nice meme
>muh gaymes
can /v/eddit please go
>>51937764
Get off of /g/ - consumer electronics if you don't like it.
>>51927138
is an i7 worse it for gaming yet or is an i5 still fine
>>51938421
i5 6600k = i7 4790k
for gaming
Hyperthreading is a meme
>people not knowing the difference between multithreading and hyperthreading
>people not knowing what hyperthreading actually does and how it works
I want consumers to leave
>>51938608
>I read a Wikipedia page I can half ass regurgitate
>I'm kinda of a big deal around here
I want fags to leave
