PHP

>>51895914
What can it be used for?

Bumping..

>>51895956
Another bump.

>>51895893
Python - good for learning some new technology, almost every library written in C have been ported for Python if not you can just use Cyton. Also good for small tasks, not a serious language if you're considering work.

Javascript - retarded bad shit crazy language written in one night. It's a pain in the ass if you actually care how you code works and if it's safe etc.

Bash - swiss army chainsaw, although ugly as fuck imo.

C# - slightly more pleasurable to work with than Java but bad portability for non M$ platforms and for me, the language doesn't know what it wants to be.

Java - meh don't have opinion. Can write in it, but it's somehow painful.

PHP - garbage, but easy to learn for beginners, also easy to learn bad habits. But even a 12 year old is able to write website using it.

C - embedded software. Don't write applications in C, you're going to get old before you finish. Still cool language if you're low level type of guy.

C++ - C with bloat. Don't know if I love it or hate it. Pain to write in but highly satisfying

Haskell - meme language

Clojure - good for monies, hard if you're not into functional languages. Cool if you're into functional languages.

x86 Assembly - you're playing with ancient magic. Powerful but it is hard to write anything useful in it

Don't have opinion on other languages, either didn't used them at all or not enough to form opinion.

>>51896129
Thank you.

>>51896129
>but it is hard to write anything useful in it
rollercoaster tycoon was written almost entirely in x86 assembly

>>51896129
So, no language is good? That is what you are implying?

>>51895919
Webapplications.

>>51896140
you're welcomed, remember this is only my opinion. I know bunch of people that work with me that think differently. You're to form you're own opinions.

small protip. Never learn anything for the sake of learning. Use Just-in-time technique.
Find yourself a project or figure out what you want to write and learn technologies needed to write that piece of soft.

Just start with some project. Upgrade it over time, rewrite into different language. This works way quicker and you'll gain way more experience rather than learning specific language.

>>51896170
>Webapplications

What a sophisticated description for slapped together PHP hacks force-raping an innocent apache.

>But muh PSRs! Muh Composer! Muh PHPdoc! It's ALMOST like Java's very retarded little brother!

Then use Java. Java is the better Java, believe it or not.

Guess i'll leave the thread except if anyone else wants to share their opinions or any tips.

>>51896169
Yes and no. Languages are just a tool. There are things I like and hate about every language.

>>51896150
yes which is why he said hard not impossible.

>>51896209
also you can write in any language knowing principles like object-oriented paradigm, functional paradigm, other important knowledge like networking and stuff.

Like I said, it's just a tool. You can learn language in week or two but it takes years to be decent programmer

Who fucking cares? Just pick one and program, the autists who say "X language is a meme" are probably not even programmers and if they are their gripes about the language will probably never affect you.

You pick the tool to do the job, you wouldn't ask carpenters whether you should use a claw hammer or a ball-peen hammer, you pick the one you need.

>>51896392
this. also learning the different libraries takes time.

>>51896196
>What a sophisticated description for slapped together PHP hacks force-raping an innocent apache.

The problem is Apache not PHP.

You can do the same retarded shit in JSP.

It is not PHP fault that someone is retarded and has access to crap tier hosting that cost $2/month and tons of open-source copy paste CMS trash solutions and code snippets.

>>51895919
torture

>>51896196
>>But muh PSRs! Muh Composer! Muh PHPdoc!

I will have to agree that these are trash tho.

>>51896935
The problem is PHP is an inconsistent mess that's super easy to abuse and not particularly good when used properly.

>>51897016
>The problem is PHP is an inconsistent mess that's super easy to abuse and not particularly good when used properly.

Yes I agree. But those were the times m8.

>>51896986
Yeah, they are all subpar clones of Java projects, substitutes for missing language features and rules to stop people from doing the usual PHP retardations (require($_GET['page'])), global variables, database queries in views, PHP as a templating language and friends) third party approaches to try and get PHP out of the stone age.

The PHP developer team isn't going to do it.

But don't get me wrong, it's good that these DO exist. It's better to be Java's retarded brother than it is to be Perl 3's retarded brother. Now it's just... both. That's a little better.

>>51896129
>Javascript - retarded bad shit crazy language written in one night. It's a pain in the ass if you actually care how you code works and if it's safe etc.
Why? I actually kinda like NodeJS and CoffeeScript...

>>51897114
A lot of reasons(not as many as PHP.)

Functional scope is weird and odd when you've used a bunch of other languages. It's different and not in a good way. No strict types(typescript helps with this.) Etc.

JS is improving unlike most hated languages(ex: PHP.)

The best thing JS did was make functions first class.

>>51897114
I said JavaScript not JavaScript frameworks.
Node.js made JS have some sense.

>>51897114
>CoffeeScript
That's not javascript. It's very different.

I don't really like JavaScript either. But I have to admit that starting from ES6, it gets a lot saner. Typescript, which adds types AND ES6 features to ES5 and 3 compile targets almost makes it... fun. Yeah. It really does.

The main problem with JavaScript is that browsers only support old versions (ES5 is still "cutting edge" because it means losing all customers who use IE8 and before for "no gain whatsoever" (according to the bean counters), the fact that browser implementations are buggy and inconsistent and that the actual browser APIs (not part of JavaScript itself) are even more buggy, even more inconsistent and absolutely unusably bad (this is why jquery had its huge success. I almost can't blame people for using it).

Today, JavaScript in the browser is so terrible that nobody wants to write it. People want to write their UIs with modern techniques from other platforms, like with Data Binding, watchers and reusable components.
But the Web isn't ready for it. JavaScript isn't ready for it. Browser vendors have managed to optimize the shit out of it, but they've reached their limits. It's a single threaded (web workers are a topkek attempt at a replacement, and not even properly supported until IE 11) interpreted language.

At least it's still better than PHP. You know how dire the situation is for that language when it only implements an AST in late 2015 and people get excited for changes like internal functions finally throwing exceptions instead of triggering critical errors and 64 bit support on all platforms.

>>51897258
In your opinion, what areas of the web are in critical need of attention? What would be a logical way to improve the web?

The huge problem is people want their websites to act as programs, but that was always a lofty goal. It seems the solution people are coming up with is "make JavaScript more powerful" and "abstract everything into a library"

Personally, I think browsers need to get their shit together and all conform to a standard (it seems as the standards are just guidelines). Also I think the whole "everything needs a failsafe" is causing developers to be lazy and not actually figure out why their code works. I understand debugging and testing is kinda shitty on the web, but the majority of front end code is just terrible.

I don't think the path we're on currently is a fruitful one.

>>51897541
Well, that's what the browsers are attempting. Microsoft has abandoned shit like ActiveX, its custom css properties, conditional comments other non-standard shit.
I think their plans are that all browsers should behave the same in 2024 or something. Conform to the same standards.

And also web assembly is coming, which is going to replace JavaScript as the single threaded mess it is with what the web always needed -a byte code. Get real, JavaScript isn't really good for anything except being used as a compile target for all sorts of better languages. But it even sucks for that, because it will still be slow and limited. It's fine for simple scripting only.

I'm also REALLY looking forward to Web Components. Those will solve an incredible amount of problems, allow you to create reusable components that you can build upon and not have to worry that stuff breaks because you need to wrap shit in another div and you won't need to introduce dependencies to libraries.
With ES7 watchers or even web assembly, data binding might finally be viable.

The reason I'd never choose the web for my application is because of lack of access to the filesystem (which is probably a good thing. I don't want to accidentally allow an application to scan my drives) and because I despise the "one interface fits all" approach. CSS media queries aren't enough.
And when you're developing two web applications, one for mobile devices and one for desktops, you might as well just write them with the native APIs of the systems. That will even give you non-ass performance. You also get a native look on each platform, which I find important.

The web was made to display a single text column with pictures in it. Not for applications, and that shows. The people who formed it from the 90s until 2010 or so had no idea what they were doing. Fuck abusing float and clearfix hacks to achieve layouts. Fuck necessary div wrapper elements and absolute position hacks. And fuck JavaScript.

>>51897239
wut

It's still the same language with all the same quirks regardless if you are on a browser or are using Node. The only difference between the two is the set of APIs they come equipped with.

Or am I misunderstanding you?

>>51896129
Nice overview anon. I'll add a couple of my own opinions:

Rust - nice design but currently it's only good for applications which a) need to be extremely high performance, b) need to be 100% memory safe, but c) don't need to be bare metal. That's quite limiting. I do like it though, it's a better C++ in most ways.

Go - bad language, but great tool. There are all sorts of annoyances about the way it handles genericity (basically: it doesn't) and so on, but you can be really productive with it and get fast, maintainable real-world code written quickly. Also, static builds make deployment easy-peasy.

Ruby - fun, cute language. Nice to use if performance isn't a huge concern. Good for web development.
Python - good for shell scripting, and rapidly developing small to medium sized applications. Has a huge library for just about anything. Fun to program with.
Java - Really verbose, and boring to develop with. A decent introductory language to OOP.
PHP - shit. But not as bad as everyone says it is. Fine for web stuff, but that's it. Maybe consider using Rails or Flask instead.
JavaScript - ass, garbage, only used out of necessity because it's the only way to add flashy bloat to a webpage