Why shouldn't I start learning Swift and using it? Seems like a better choice than C++ or Python right now.
>>51730631
>Seems like a better choice than C++ or Python right now
Why?
What the fuck is swift?
>>51730642
more jobs & better paying jobs. plus it's a compiled language and is as fast as C++ and doesn't have GIL like python.
>>51730647
go to bed gaymer.
>more & better paying jobs than C++ and python
lel
>>51730647
Apple's attempt at a compiled systems language that aims to have the performance of a C-family language while being as simple to learn and write as a scripting language like Ruby or Python.
Unlike Objective-C it's not shackled by C compatibility, and its huge leverage of LLVM enabled features that are uncommon in compiled languages.
Also Unlike Objective-C, Apple is pushing hard to make the language useful on non-Apple platforms by the first ABI-stable release (3.0, coming next year). Whereas Objective-C leaned heavily on Apple toolkits, Swift will instead have its own platform-independent implementations of the most important parts of AppKit/UIKit.
One of its main attractions is its type system, which allows for strong types without sacrificing flexibility, as well as its strong focus on protocols (they often refer to it as a protocol-oriented language rather than object oriented).
It's mainly interesting because it could potentially enable the entire stack to be...
>>51730757
...written in a single language without making the sacrifices involved in using languages like JavaScript or the lack of high-level utility you'd face by doing the entire stack in C++.
>>51730746
it's true. plus it's so much easier to get a higher paying Swift job than a C++ job. to get the same paying job with C++, you'll beed 10+ years of C++ experience.
>>51730690
I haven't seen any postings for Swift.
This is too elaborate to be a troll.
What the fuck.
>>51730804
you haven't looked hard enough. they're everywhere.
>>51730778
thats just because there are alot of really smart programmers in C++, and only retard hipster indie programmers use swift at the moment.
name one well respected game made in swift.
On this same topic, is there any need to learn Objective C at this point?
>>51730631
I haven't heard Swift mentioned once since the week it was announced.
>>51730804
They're starting to pop up around the SF Bay Area, and probably also the Portland/Seattle and Austin areas. It'll be a year or two before Swift positions show up elsewhere.
As long as Apple devices continue to be popular, being one of the first to be truly capable with Swift will be a goldmine in tech-oriented areas. Apple is gradually killing off Objective-C... Swift is going to be the primary iLanguage very very soon. Even at 2015 WWDC there were more Swift dev sessions than there Objective-C ones.
>>51730855
>respected
> game
kek'd hard. games are fucking garbage. all of them.
learn rust instead
>>51730631
Just reminding you that if the SJWs have their way you won't be able to dofor (int i = 0; i < 100; i += 3)
without the use of extra functions.
Swift is going to be killed now that it is open source. What stays and what goes will be decided by the SJWs and existing programmers won't want to move to it because they will have to rewrite functions and learn new ways to do things that were removed for no good reason.
>>51730910
>learn rust instead
rust it dead to me until it's got native UI bindings on Lin/Win/Mac
>>51730915
https://github.com/apple/swift/pull/165
>>51730915
wtf are you on about?
>>51730901
>Rugby is garbage
>Tennis is garbage
>Fencing is garbage
>>51730915
alright i'll bite
why do sjws hate for loops?
>>51731104
They hate C style for loops.
Apparently no one uses them so they're going to remove them.
Look in the pull requests.
>>51731115
you're gonna have to point them out
i dont see anything
>>51731115
eww why do I have to write a for loop?
I'd rather have for loops abstracted away with higher order functions
>>51730757
...JOHN CENA!
>>51730892
And now that it's on Linux, it's only going to get better with time. We should start seeing some critical Linux implementations in a few years.
When I look at it it looks like they took Objective-C and a variety of scripting languages and took only the bad parts of them.
>>51731167
https://github.com/apple/swift/pull/270
https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/pull/23
And they're already removing ++/--
https://github.com/apple/swift/pull/281
>>51731167
https://github.com/apple/swift/pull/270
>A small step towards removing C-style loops
good riddance
>>51730631
>"Open source" code backed by a proprietary software company and developed via popular opinion
as long as you already know C++ (you obviously don't if you thing swift is a replacement) then go for it
>>51731265
>The semi-colon delimited declaration offers a steep learning curve from users arriving from non C-like languages
I keked
>>51731104
Not him but if I had to wager a guess? It's too phallic. Int i = 0 and with each pass it gradually grows.. if you think that's far off you might also refuse to acknowledge how leader/follower is a terrible change in term for master/slave. In which case Id like to ask what you might deem a proper reason for the change besides "black people". Jews were slaves to black people and they're not complaining. It's mostly women.
Sorry if my argument seems a bit childish but how exactly do you approach a discussion with children in terms children will understand when it's clear they have no clue what is happening in their computers. They just don't like the keywords and that has nothing to do with how the thing functions.
>>51731355
Actually it is pretty obvious why they might want that stuff out. Simply put, it looks complicated and apparently scares programming newfags away. I don't see why that is bad though, since nowadays we have babby languages like Python which can help ease people into programming. Seems like apple is trying real hard to get more code monkeys at less cost for their shitty platform.
>>51731489
>it looks complicated
Not when you put it next to the shit they're replacing it with.
Basically it's people who have started off learning Object Oriented programming going "this stuff looks complicated (because we're not familiar with it) and so others will think that it looks complicated, so we should remove it.
>>51731489
That's certainly true. It also serves to lock people into apple software as a whole. If you start coding for it in swift your bad habits are going to keep you there. Clearly the issue is that of "less thinking involved" but really this is just going to make the cost of apple products sky rocket. The hardware is going to have to compensate for the shitty idiograms it's going to be compiling.
I'm going to look into buying some apple stock soon if at all possible. I'm sure they're locked in at the moment.
>>51730944
>master and slave ==> leader and follower
Holy shit what is wrong with these people? Master/slave doesn't have anything like the same connotation as leader/follower. A master tells a slave what to do. They don't follow the same fucking path, as implied by leader/follower.
Why don't they just rename everything "alpha" and "beta"? Or "George" and "Sam"? Or X and Y? Why try to convey any meaning whatsoever with naming?
>>51731489
When I first saw the for loop I was amazed. I just had to make the most of the limited variables we were given. Then I started looking into algorithms like insert and merge and I realized then that I was at home in programming. I felt that way with math but then Women in STEM happened. Sadly, it's happening all over again with these changes. I hope maybe at least they'll leave pointers alone. I can see them arguing that it's too much like 'mansplaining'.
>>51731700
supervisor/subordinate?
>>51731716
Look in the pull requests, they're already arguing about getting rid of pointers arithmetic because it's extremely unsafe and complicated to understand.
>>51730631
Op grow a dick. Learning a language takes 1-2 days tops. MAYBE a month to learn absolutely every single aspect of a language. Maybe if it was your first language, otherwise just stfu you could be 50% done by now.
>>51731726
Nope. Supervisor implies supervision responsibilities.
A master simply *tells a slave what to do*. For example, the master and slave cylinders in a car braking system. There's nothing more to it, the master commands and the slave obeys.
>>51731740
>MAYBE a month to learn absolutely every single aspect of a language.
I see you don't know C++...
>>51731741
A supervisor's only duty is to make sure his subordinates are working.
So yes, a supervisor simply tells a subordinate what to do.
>>51730690
>>51730804
Looks like Swift has trended upwards. I'm more impressed that there's any data for when the language didn't exist... ;-)
>>51731760
>So yes, a supervisor simply tells a subordinate what to do.
That's completely false.
>>51731760
Supervisor/subordinate sounds more like the parent/child relationship.
>>51731778
why didn't they just use parent/child?
>>51731781
It's too problematic. Not every child has a parent these days anon.
>>51731700
Master slave really isn't about who tells who what to do. At least in my experience, it's always been more of a separation of task and duty. Master drive deals with the keeping of the real estate( C ), the domain ( Host ), the manner of conduct ( OS ). The slave drive deal with the less important jobs like maintaining stock and the more open roles a computer can play. It made perfect sense to me growing up as a separation of trusts. I didn't look at people as slaves, we had computers now. They could be programmed to do that stuff. Maybe it's just me and has to do with the fact that I'd had some time with the bible. Maybe someone just needs to leave behind a trace of entitlement for future generations. Maybe I should just keep to my Cs and Java and leave apple products to the girls.
>>51731810
>Master slave really isn't about who tells who what to do.
That is exactly what it is about.
> At least in my experience,
You're an idiot, and you're blathering.
I don't know what specific experience you've had with misnamed things, but that is precisely what master and slave mean. Don't go around spreading the degeneracy that you've written.
Which programming language recently removed the member function suicide() from it's worker thread class?
>>51730944
This is kind of shit is completely turning me off to the idea of programing.
I want to learn a language, because I think it's worthwhile. I just don't want to waste my time with the wrong one, ya know?
But shit like this...man. If I had to hear this conversation in public, I'd walk out, or curb stomp whoever of the group is the most ethnically ambiguous--as to avoid being blamed for a hate crime by them.
>>51731747
Man, I hate to do this to C++ but pointers is literally highlight all, cut/copy and paste. You just have to remember if you cut ( address ), copied ( pointer ) or are typing/pasting. If you are trying to get a split of the character array, just count ip to how many characters you are actually using. If that's too much, take the whole index and subtract from it the number of characters to be ommited. They just want fewer things to think about. It makes a mockery of the whole system of learning that you apply to a computer. Especially considering it is one of the wonders of the world. You need to keep it whole for future generations.
>>51731862
please don't ever seek employment
i don't want to get curbstomped by some psychopath just for making a joke
>>51731869
Are you mentally ill, or just a really low quality troll? I mean, it's like you're not even trying.
>return fib(n - 1) + fib(n - 2)
>>51731830
Look nigger, if anyone's blathering it's the idiot that didn't bother reading what followed after the thing that triggered her.
Master is a label. It wasn't a person. In a dojo setting the master doesn't tell the the others to do anything. He accounts for an exemplary nature. In an estate, the master tends to the tidings about the home and not the land/territory. Please stop pretending you are an incarnation of the pain some people felt in their time. Would Master/Servant work to trigger you less harshly? In that way it would function less as it does and open your system to a slew of operational hazards that wouldn't fall in line with the categorization once you grew bored of this and went on to try karate or rock climbing.
Successor triggers me, I think I'll go make a pull request based on the fact that I am now the successor to your livid nature considering the white man let you play house over the natural domain.
>>51731902
Hey baby want sum fuk
Also, you forgot to say kek
>>51731928
You're really just not very good at this. Stop.
>>51731883
A joke? Bruh.
SJW shit is what I can't stand. It's people getting offended by things that were never designed with any intent to offend. Instead they apply their current worldview of those inherently benign things (in this fucking instance: WORDS), and then assume because in their current generation words like 'suicide, master, slave, he, / she, his, etc.' have negative connotations, they shouldn't be in a language.
They would rather reinvent the wheel because it is too vaginal, than simply accept that it works. But sure, let's have a fucking 3 hour conversation over what words look too phallic, than actually be productive and create something.
>>51731955
I don't a gold medal in special tidings. I already put in the work. Jow do you convince people not to seek welfare if what they wantvis special accomodations and free money. It's like you're trying to get them create an assembly flag for " Sector 8" now too.
Why not just learn all of programming if you want to get to do more than pretend "u iz smard now".
>>51731984
>1984
Fuck dubs/trips/quads. We Orwell now.
>>51731977
pls
i don't want to get curbstomped by an insane lunatic who thinks everyone is an SJW trying to take away their boys club
>>51730866
Nah, no need to learn C at all, just learn some web based languages. PHP, HTML5 and JavaScript are all you need
>>51732009
>Boys club
Why not make a slew of friends and break the thing apart in a non-confrontational manner instead? Why do you need to tear the thing down as if it were Frankenstein? Don't you see how silly it is to go at the thing using all female "rhetoric". Especially when your only responses are those of the term, "No, you do not have my consent". I actually gave you some really good tips in managing the language and you seem to think it's all about breaking down acids on the fly.
>>51732033
>Nah, no need to learn C at all,
Question was about Objective C.
>>51730866
And it sure looks like you don't need to. Unless you want to do maintenance work.
>ITT taking a seed a redistributing it on the basis of an obfuscated yet non-uniform randomization process.
>>51731761
>I'm more impressed that there's any data for when the language didn't exist... ;-)
Because swift is a common word in the English language...?
>>51732009
What boys club? Women have just as much opportunity in picking their college major in a STEM field as men. Why don't they? Who fucking knows.
Programming used to be dominated by women, actually. Imagine that? Then somehow, weak-minded men and women alike were brainwashed by pop culture into believing only socially awkward males do things like Math or Science. They have had every as much opportunity to learn since the past 40 years. What's the fucking problem?
There was a time where women were physically NOT ALLOWED to go to college. We haven't lived like that for over a century. Now all the 20-something women's studies majors are pissed off on Tumblr that only guys are involved in STEM, yet they could just have easily filled their major / minor application out and picked biology, or engineering, etc.
Instead they chose the one major almost as useless as my fucking Psychology degree.
>>51732121
;-)
You're a smart one, aren't you? ;-)
>>51730631
alternative: haskell
>>51732145
What major did they choose, btw? Anthro? Women's studies? Philo? Fine arts?
Going for CE here after some time in the graphic design industry and a long time of retail between the two. Kinda feel like although those majors I mentioned don't really give much in the way of merit worthy of much beyond the point of "we're all special" I jave noticed they are the only majors besides maybe medical that flocks under one banner to such a great degree in spite of all their "differences".
>>51732210
I was thinking the same thing but I almost doubt that swift accounts for the number of prime primitives the way haskell did/does.
>>51732226
liberal arts was a mistake
>>51731219
fucking kek'd
>>51730944
>https://github.com/apple/swift/pull/165
GET FUCKED.
Are these cunts serious.
>>51730944
> Daily reminder that stupid people exist
>>51732772
I wish I could forget.
>>51730941
>native ui binding on linux
Does such a thing even exist
>>51730985
>wtf are you on about?
This presumably
https://github.com/apple/swift-evolution/blob/master/proposals/0007-remove-c-style-for-loops.md
>>51731700
>>51731862
>>51732626
>>51732772
are you fucking retarded? look at the username
>>51733125
yeah, it was a troll account
but guess what
they still merged it
>>51733125
So this started as a joke and was taken seriously
That is even better
>>51730647
it's a fucking car from Suzuki you fucking dumb fucking weebo shit, it's fucking japanese and you have no clue, holy fuck.
>>51733190
Looking at other pull request they are fully aware pcbro is a troll but they still accept his requests
I don't even know anymore
>>51730631
windows compiler fucking when.
Only found one local swift posting but it did pay 50 an hour. Thats good pay, wasnt full time tho
>>51735047
>windows compiler fucking when.
neva
>>51730631fn(n: int) -> int
That's gayest thing I have ever seen and I have seen the movie Gay niggers from outer space
>>51731761
>c++
JUST
>removing c style for loops
>removing ++ and --
I don't understand, do some people find these things complicated?
Their replacement for the C style for loop is just as "confusing", and their removal of ++ will probably end up in code being littered with one liners like i = i +1.
Honestly if you can't wrap your head around a c style for loop and the difference between ++i and i++ you probably arn't going to be writing applications in swift anyway.
>>51735853
underrated post
It reads and sounds like a shit version of Go. I'll stick to fucking my gopher in the ass while Rob Pike films it and massages his cranium, thanks.
>>51730915
>SJWs destroying programming
Can anyone explain this to me? I'm fairly new to programming, so i don't know about this meme yet.
>>51736087
It sounds like making it different for the sake of it, jumping on the functional lang bandwagon. The C way is "the old way" of doing it, and "obsolete", when here in reality it makes very little difference.
![[001424].png](https://i.imgur.com/ZqjE9H9.png "[001424].png")
>>51733190
>>51730944
As an electrical engineer this upsets me to no end
>>51730631
>that exponential time fib function
pic related(define (fib n)
(define (fib-aux a b n)
(if (= n 0)
a
(fib-aux b (+ a b) (-1+ n))))
(fib-aux 0 1 n))
Man this makes me so fucking happy, companies like IBM, Apple etc coming together and building things / fucking around with them just like in the good old days. Openquartz when?
>>51731700
>>51731726
>>51731741
>>51731775
>>51731778
>>51731781
commander / worker
>>51730690
>more jobs
no...
>>51737240
>using a recursive implementation
Dude, why not just calculate the closed form?
>>51737307
all these abstractions we use are arbitrary in the first place. So why do stormfronters take the removal of master/slave personally?
>>51737374
Mental illness.
>>51737374
>So why do stormfronters take the removal of master/slave personally?
You don't need to have a photograph of Hitler on your wall to understand that language policing is a bad thing.
We all know that slavery was a bad thing, that's why we study history to learn from the past, we don't erase it just because we don't like it. And specially, you wouldn't do that in order to avoid hurting the feelings of a couple people that have the maturity of a child
>>51736185
In this instance they (or some troll) got swift developers to merge a commit that renames master/slave to leader/follower, because apparently master/slave has a bad connotation. leader/follower in no way describes what is being done
>>51731736
but i like doing strange things with pointers
>>51732033
>objective c =/=
>php
>javascript
oh you're fucking with them, i get it now
>>51737993
they're a major source of mansplaining because they're so complex and must be removed to foster a friendly safe environment for women
>>51737240
>>51737369fibonacci = histomorphism phi where
phi [] = 0
phi [_] = 1
phi (x : y : _) = x + y
https://github.com/django/django/pull/2692
>10 or 15 comments debating change
>literally hundreds of people thanking them and replying with emojis
>>51736087
Look in
https://github.com/apple/swift/pull/281/files#r46771970
In some cases you use i = i.successor(), in others you use i = i.advanceBy(n) or you use i +=/-=.
Basically it becomes a mess. Also they are replacing i++ and ++i the same which makes me wonder if the people using them even knew the difference.
What do you do now if you want ++i?
>>51731219
>>51736205
>It sounds like making it different for the sake of it, jumping on the functional lang bandwagon.
You know, normally I would get pissed off about using functional programming as the big bad boogeyman who is dedicated to making programmers not think about efficiency.
But you're right, if you're not going to go the full nine yards and completely support pure functional programming, don't remove the imperative stuff. Recursion is ideally just as efficient as looping, but of course you need the support for all sorts of special recursion schemes that can be optimized, and I'm doubtful that Swift has any of that.
>>51730631
That looks a lot like Go.import "fmt"
func fib(n int) int {
switch n {
case 0:
return 0
case 1:
return 1
default:
return fib(n - 1) + fib(n - 2)
}
}
func main() {
fmt.Println("Hello world!")
for x := 9; x < 25; x++ {
fmt.Println(fib(x))
}
}
>>51738673
Christ, an actual response from a rational human being. I'm in shock.
That's a good way of putting it, fair play. Peppering languages with bits of functional language design just turns me right off, it almost makes a mess of it.
>>51739566
Indeed.
010010010010000001101000011000010111011001100101001000000110000101100010011100110110111101101100011101010111010001100101011011000111100100100000011011100110111100100000011010010110010001100101011000010010000001110111011010000110000101110100001000000110100100100111011011010010000001100101011101100110010101101110001000000110010001101111011010010110111001100111001000000110111101101110001000000010111101100111001011110010000001101001001001110110110100100000011000010010000001100011011011110110110101110000011011000110010101110100011001010010000001110100011001010110001101101000001000000110100101100100011010010110111101110100
>>51731841
The nodejs group is planning on deprecating it.
>>51730631
>inb4 muh freedoms
Joe Groff: "Swift, where characters are grapheme clusters rather than single UTF-16 code units or Unicode scalars"
WIN
>>51730631
>garbage
because it literally is garbage (collected). so it would be unsuitable for environments where gc delays are prohibitively expensive. for places where gc is okay, there are already a plethora of languages that provide a superior type system, syntactic power, and established ecosystem.
honestly, there are way too many programming languages in existence that are simply syntactic re-hashes of each other. i think the main reason apple released it is because it's the cool thing for cool corps to do, i.e., google and golang, facebook and hack, so on.
>>51730631
>>51730631
>garbage
because it literally is garbage (collected). so it would be unsuitable for environments where gc delays are prohibitively expensive. for places where gc is okay, there are already a plethora of languages that provide a superior type system, syntactic power, and established ecosystem.
honestly, there are way too many programming languages in existence that are simply syntactic re-hashes of each other. i think the main reason apple released it is because it's the cool thing for cool corps to do, i.e., google and golang, facebook and hack, so on.
can someone help me with my homework? it's my last assignment for the year and it's confusing as fuck.
I think we should propose to change the master-slave terminology to man-woman
>>51742366
>>51742395
>because it literally is garbage (collected).
It literally isn't it uses ARC. I'd suggest you start collecting garbage by deleting your post(s).
>>51742781
referencing counting is garbage collection.
>>51730778
You can keep saying this, but that won't make it true.
>>51742891
Kill yourself. Please.
>>51742891
No, it works entirely different.
Garbage collection halts the process, scans the entire stack at runtime to search for heap objects that are still referenced, and then marks the ones without any reference for deletion.
Automatic reference counting means that the compiler automatically inserts retain/release at compile-time for you, that increment/decremet a reference counter to the object. All ARC does is call free() when the reference counter hits 0, it works exactly like smart pointers in C++ just more comfortable.
>>51730647
This is a programming language made by people that fap all days on Taylor Swift posters.
