So now that Haskell and Golang have been successfully killed, what meme/hipster language do we end next? Rust? Ruby?
Ruby is just retarded and will die. Rust has promise because of Mozilla but probably Clojure or Groovy or some other JVM language.
>>51412869
itt: luddites
captcha: 486
Haskell and Golang
>>51412869
How do you determine if a language is "killed"?
>>51412921
Haskell: google foldable/traversable apocalypse and the newest version of Prelude
Golang: google their new CoC and the shit Andrew Gerrand's been doing to the language
kill javascript
>>51412965
what can replace it though, it's too embedded into the web now
>>51412977
R5RS
>>51413062
Parentheses and infix notation are too hard for normie webdevs.
OP, are you saying you think that "we" had a hand in killing Haskell or Go?
>>51413191
>normie webdevs.
git gud scrub, you're just jelly of my 20 grand starting and any job that'll hire me.
>>51413246
>"developer"
>>51413220
of course, we used meme magic to destroy them
SJW languages must die in order to keep the SJW's out.
>>51412869
>we
Don't assume everyone is a code monkey. I don't belong in your CS sekrit club.
>>51413263
Sorry anon, I was making a joke about web dev being an over saturated job market.
>>51413341
Oh, I thought the joke was using the word "developer", because it is.
No wonder it's so saturated, kids in 6th grade could do this shit. At least, I did...
>“Coming from a background in C/C++, I find Go to be a real breath of fresh air. At this point, I think it would be a far better choice than C++ for doing systems programming because it will be much more productive and it solves problems that would be notably more difficult in C++. This is not to say that I think C++ was a mistake -- on the contrary, I think it was inevitable. At the time, we were deeply mired in the C mindset, slightly above assembly language and convinced that any language construct that generated significant code or overhead was impractical. Things like garbage collection or language support for parallelism were downright ridiculous and no one took them seriously. C++ took the first baby steps necessary to drag us into this larger world, and Stroustrup made the right choices in making C++ comprehensible to the C programmer, and able to compile C. We needed that at the time.
>We’ve had many lessons since then. Things like garbage collection and exception handling and virtual machines, which used to be crazy talk, are now accepted without question. The complexity of C++ (even more complexity has been added in the new C++), and the resulting impact on productivity, is no longer justified. All the hoops that the C++ programmer had to jump through in order to use a C-compatible language make no sense anymore -- they’re just a waste of time and effort. Now, Go makes much more sense for the class of problems that C++ was originally intended to solve.”
-Bruce Eckel: author of "Thinking in C++", the undisputed best book on C++ 10 to 15 years ago
>>51412963
>Haskell: google foldable/traversable apocalypse and the newest version of Prelude
I googled that and reached https://wiki.haskell.org/Foldable_Traversable_In_Prelude
what is the problem here?
>>51413372
CS is a meme. STEM is a meme.
99% of people in STEM fields are autistic which explains their hardon for mathematics.
Python.
If it isn't C, C++, or C#, it's trash.
>>51413437
Python isnt a hipster language you fuck?
>>51413434
Agreed, I do CS shit as a hobby, couldn't imagine learning it and coming out with the hundreds of thousands of normies going into those fields nowadays. A lot of them are actually autistic, but most are just plain stupid desu.
You can learn anything they teach you on Google, or by reading books.
>>51413432
autistic people don't like change
>>51413456
Look, kids, a hipster that programs in his clusterfuck of a language that is the retarded baby of BASIC and lisp.
>>51413474
Well another example is this thread. Just look at how they shitting on each other over languages when none of these niggers can code or has produced a noteworthy project.
>>51413432
Breaks compatibility with older software and requires the harmful Lens module.
>>51412963
>making functions more generic
>bad
Fuck off idiot
Just read about Foldable, looks pretty neat. Why even use haskell if you don't use typeclasses, what the fuck. Please explain the controversy.
>>51413549
>changing virtually how the entire language works
>good
Fuck off idiot.
>>51412963
>and the shit Andrew Gerrand's been doing to the language
what exactly did they let that Ozzie twat do? I cant believe they would actually let him submit anything to the language
>>51413640
Change doesn't happen for the fun of it. Change happens because the outcome is supposed to be better than the old way.
>>51413761
added dynamic typing and whitespace to denote scope to Go
>>51412869
Go is great.
>>51413798
Generics are a meme.
>>51413761
He's not done anything to the language but he's increasingly throwing his virtue-signalling reddit bullshit politics around. He doesn't want others' politics associated with the project but his are just fine, thank you very much. Dave Cheney is the worst Go-associated person for this worldview.
What's wrong with having NO politics associated with your programming project? Christ.
>>51413846
>Generics are a meme
Enjoy your interface{}'s
Python should be next.
FUCK whitespace languages.
>>51413434
>I can't into basic calculous
>>51413949
generics: a cheap hack to hide all the boilerplate code you'd have to write to break out of an over constraining type system
dont like generics? let me give you an example of worse cheap hack so you'll learn to appreciate the first cheap hack
Did anything happen?
>>51412898
Show us where the Ruby touched you.
>>51412965
Javascript is actually a great language. You're probably an edgy try-hard who understands jackshit about anything trying to fit in on /g/.
Instead of killing, I vote we bring Pascal back to life.
Haskell programmers are some of the most obnoxious and pretentious peons of all time. They couldn't learn how to use concurrency in a real language, so they invent some terrible "safe" language to compensate for it.
>>51412869
FORTRAN
>>51413437
>>51413961
>Python
Yes, please.
>>51413456
All python special snowflakes do is whine about everything non-python. It needs to die.
>
>>51414142
> :=
No thank you.
>>51414142
you probably never heard of Oberon have you?
>>51412963
>Golang: google their new CoC and the shit Andrew Gerrand's been doing to the language
>look this up
>eventually find this
>https://github.com/opal/opal/issues/941
So, when did technology become a kindergarten for kids to cry endlessly about the bully who hurt their feelings?
This is beyond funny.
>>51414393
>link
this has to be some kind of elaborate trolling.
>>51412963
>language doesn't change
>LEGACY SHIT
>language changes
>BROKEN SHIT
>>51414393
>over 9000 comments worth of meh literally explaining tits or gtfo to github feminists
True anonymous hero.
>>51413246
>20 grand starting
That's a typo, right?
>>51414151
t. realtalktech
>>51414393
What the fuck, that's not real. No, I can't accept this shit.
>>51414393
>comment links to article called The Dehumanizing Myth of the Meritocracy
>>51414393
>when I think about OSS, I think of community management, emotional labour, and risks to my mental health. That you don't is a product of your privilege.
holy shit, how can these people function in day to day life?
Go libraries are fucking unpleasant.
Whoever thought returning errors as a value was a good idea must be hanged.
>>51414708
>>holy shit, how can these people function in day to day life?
They are not very functional in the sense of productivity.
>>51414510
How much did you think they pay to uneducated "hacker bootcamp" scum?
>>51414708
Shit man.
This is so fucking hilarious. I'm making a collection out of these github issues gems. My google fu already turned up a couple older albeit really good ones:
https://github.com/django/django/pull/2692
https://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/1015
Be right back, I'm gonna laugh at these until they're no longer funny.
>>51414709
Actually, it's a great idea to have the return type reflect that you either get a resultant value or an error message. Go just does a terrible job of implementing that idea.
>>51412898
Is Mozilla really that big to make and support a new programming language like Rust?
>>51414756
But to avoid all the boilerplate, you have to have some way of returning back when error happens, without wreaking further havoc.
I'm prepared to see monads mentioned, but we can't have generics, we're been over this with Go.
>>51414783
>But to avoid all the boilerplate, you have to have some way of returning back when error happens, without wreaking further havoc.
Huh?
>I'm prepared to see monads mentioned, but we can't have generics, we're been over this with Go.
Are you saying that generics/polymorphism is bad or that Go is bad because it doesn't support it?
>>51413437
>Python.
>Most used language in the world
>'Hipster'
>Dying anytime soon
>>51414802
url:=parseUrlFromFile(path); //This path doesn't exist, will return nil here
content:=makeSyncRequest(url); //This will kill your hamster if url is nil
>>51414802
>Are you saying that generics/polymorphism is bad or that Go is bad because it doesn't support it?
Neither, just stating that Go doesn't have it.
>>51414829
Well, yes. Either you have boilerplate, you support monads, or you use built-in exceptions.
>>51414857
Should I read your original statement as
>Whoever thought not supporting returning errors as a value in Go was a good idea must be hanged
then?
>>51414754
https://imgur.com/QC51FZz
>a valid medical term must not be present anywhere in your repository
>>51414754
Honestly, the second one was okay until "redrifle" came in and started making fun of it. Passive language is standard in technical writing.
>>51414709
>>51414756
>>51414783
>>51414802
>>51414857
>>51414880
Error values are OK if you only have to do it once every now and again, but checking nontrivial operations is generally awful. Other than a preprocessor to hideif err != nilblocks behind a macro, I don't know what other decent (i.e. not exceptions) techniques exist for error handling.
They almost made a preprocessor-like function with go:generate, but that has to be run manually, and it would have to actually modify your codebase, not just what the compiler reads.
>>51414982
>I don't know what other decent (i.e. not exceptions) techniques exist for error handling.
Monads.
>>51412898
>Rust has promise because of Mozilla
Mozilla is literally dead
>>51412869
Python
Rust
PHP
Java
These all need to go down.
>>51414142
Fuck Pascal, we need to make Ada more mainstream!
>>51413456
Python is decent for on the fly stuff because it's so simple, but if you think it's an actual language you can successfully develop with, you should seek mental help
Dylan could be a good hipster language.
Or Julia is hipster as fuck, just kind of niche.
The FTP apocalypse is really overblown.
>>51415068
That's way too hipster.
People want a language that everyone in starbucks could understand, like javascript.
>>51415121
nim then?
>>51414982
Continuations are p good.
This entire thread.
>>51415131
Never heard of it. Is there a why it won't work chart filled out anywhere on it?
>>51414501
meh here, I do what I can.
>>51414982
Look up Lisp's condition system. The closest we've come to truly effective real world error handling
>>51415065
>making blanket statements like this
the future is polyglot
>>51415031
This. Except I'm pretty fine with Rust, it actually looks somewhat useful, as opposed to the other shit languages
>>51415221
This is right, but I envision at least 4 areas for a language:
1) Front end GUI, since a lot of it is web, must transpile to ES. People will flock to either pure ES or something more stable like Typescript.
2) Embedded language. You wanna buzz about internet of trash? Your language better compile to armv7, msp430, avr, and even 8051. C and maybe Rust here.
3) Back end dark side enterprise speech. C# and Java are only options. Java is developing faster than Haskell gains popularity, it will not be the other way.
4) Language just-for-apple-shit. They won't use anything that was not made elsewhere, they will invent their own wheel.
C and C++, since they produced harmful and unsafe software.
>2015
>using languages that don't check array bounds
>>51412965
This please. Kill it with fire.
>>51412869
Retards still use the retarded language Lisp. Awesome Haskell still has a chance. Oh, and Google created Go, so that *probably* will not die.
>>51414393
That issue was pure fucking cancer, and I hate the lynch mob that formed to attack the highly active contributor and the guy who was defending him. Shit like this makes me wary of github.
Thing is, it's always the same few heads that pop up to make the same points, but when you look at what they do, it's fucking trivial bullshit or they've stopped coding on github atogether. It's shameless, disgusting and purely motivated by wanting to shame people to prevent free speech.
>>51416660
Lisp is actually one of the few decent languages ("frameworks") because it's safe from all this SJW and committee drama bullshit. If someone fucks up a Lisp it's easy enough to make another Lisp to replace it thanks to based lambda calculus.
>>51412913
I actually have a certain fondness for Go but I think the Go community is more guilty of luddism (see their stance on generics and just about every other language feature there is) that anyone else you're going to hear much about in 2015.
>>51413545
I haven't been following new developments in Haskell since I've settled on GHC 7.8.4. How is FTP going to force people to use lenses?
golang is a suckless joke to trap bad programmers
haskell is a functional joke to trap bad programmers
>>51412977
Even Dart would be a step in the right direction. There's really a lot of languages which would be a fine substitute. Pick a lisp, any lisp. Any of the popular scripting languages except maybe perl (it's a fine language but not really a good fit for what JS is in 2015, would have been a good pick when Eich was writing the first ecmascript implementation). Even one of the major statically typed OO languages (distributing JVM bytecode would be useful in a lot of ways) wouldn't be too bad.
>>51413545
lol, it isn't you dumb fuck
>>51416757
Lisp is great but this isn't true at all. Lisps don't interoperate, even R5RS implementations have quirks between them as do CL interpreters (see the idiocy of not requiring TCO in the spec so every implementation decides differently if valid code is going to run or not). There's so much lead work in terms of libraries and resources that nothing is unsinkable, like Clojure is probably the most recent moderately popular lisp, if tomorrow Rich decides you have to cut your dick off to use it then there are countless lines of code lost, that have to be rewritten, not just in the language core and contrib but in the hundreds of repos you need for feature parity with any popular language. That's not something you can redo in over night, or even in a year.
>>51415289
1) Forth.js
2) Forth
3) Forth#
4) AppleForth
>>51413062
r7rs-small you casual
>>51413062
Imagine "full-stack" .io SJW and Indian webdevs reading SICP.
>>51416867
learn english before you reply
>>51414941
that's just sad
>>51414774
Not anymore. Completed kuked.
>>51413846
If you consider generics to be a meme then you don't belong in any argument concerning Haskell.
Generics are literally what MAKES Haskell. I won't value anybody's opinion who dislikes generics unless:
1) They've studied type theory and still hold the same opinion.
2) They dislike generics, but recognize that their drawbacks are only within certain components of programming (embedded, performance-intensive software, etc.)
I agree with the argument that overdoing generics (ala C++ template hell) is a bad thing, but a language devoid of generics (Go) is horseshit.
>>51414243
That is more of a problem regarding who uses it. The people that use Python need to die.
>>51416757
>thanks to based lambda calculus.
Are you talking about ML?
Any decent programming who knows anything about language development should be able to write an ML
>>51412869
What makes Golang dead exactly? I've been learning it of a little while and I like it.
Tried my hand at Haskell and I wasn't ready.
>>51414754
https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/3840
https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/3721
In general, I don't understand how a project like this runs.
>Using GIthub issues as a support platform for a major product
>Launching a new release with 383 open issues
>Having 180 pull requests to review, and only being able to merge them in master without extra effort
>>51417236
ML still has those pesky infix operators and generally more syntax, auto-currying isn't trivial. I'd argue lisps are simpler to implement, you only need N special forms and your parser and lexer together are like a couple hundred lines in a reasonably expressive language, you could probably hack it in 100 if you wanted to.
>Using GIthub issues as a support platform for a major product
This doesn't seem unreasonable, it's actually a pretty solid system. A lot of bikeshedding goes on around ticket tracking systems, it's a classic example of worse is better IMO
>Launching a new release with 383 open issues
I mean depends on the issues obviously, hard to say without context
>Having 180 pull requests to review, and only being able to merge them in master without extra effort
Yeah, that does seem pretty crazy. Is it just like the PRs get made and effectively rejected but no one closes them or are there really 180 that are presumably waiting to get merged that are just falling progressively further behind head?
>>51417265
GO FTW
>>51417236
ML is Lisp for idiots, and Lisp stripped of everything that makes Lisp great.
honestly ruby is garbage and is already dying a death
rust is cool but i lost faith in mozilla
>>51417217
python is basically the go-to language for anything in science. never used it for non-scientific work but it works well or what it does
what makes OP think golang is dead btw, i have a hard time believing that google will let anything die without insisting that you have to use it in order to do google stuff
how about we just kill swift and call it a day
>>51415031
I kinda feel bad for php. The basic idea is awesome (Hey, let's write dynamic webpages... IN C!), the implementation could be better.
>tfw Kumar shits up your repo with support requests
https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/2863
>>51417698
>rust is cool but i lost faith in mozilla
Given it's Mozilla we're talking about, I'm absolutely shocked that Go has become the goto kek language instead of Rust in recent times.
node.js, please
>>51417941
It's because Jewgle is much more cancerous than Mozilla.
>>51417217
You have a good point.
Dear God,
Please kill all python users, and please make it painful, amen.
>>51413545
>haskell
>has software worth worrying about
:caret)
>>51417941
because businesses actually use Go
>>51418171
The fact Dropbox are being their storage platform in Rust is a big vote of confidence.
>>51413640
>typeclass instead of list
>a big change
lql idiot detected
Is Haskell really kill? Is the language a meme or is this whole discussion just a meme?
>>51418272
I wouldn't put much weight in the OP's opinion. Look to the greater Haskell community.
>>51417279
>2015
>not just reporting the repos that "offend" you
why can't everything just be C and scheme
seriously, fuck all other languages!
>>51418227
It is when the typeclass in question is lens, which is shit.
>>51418435
>not C and TCL
Haskell is now functional Java thanks to FTP.
Fuck you, Haskell committee.
Could I have a /g/ approved list of languages that can be used without being called a hipster or faggot?
>>51414273
>recursively
Enjoy your exponential time. Lazily evaluated infinite streams are where it's at.
It's like you don't even read your daily SICP.
>>51418595
C, ASM, Fortran
>>51418595
I tried assembly once
>>51418595
C
Forth
Most assembler archs (not x86, too tainted by jews)
Prolog
Most Scheme dialects, besides Racket
Awk
Most shells besides bash and tcsh and zsh
TeX
Smalltalk
Verilog
APL
>>51418595
Java
>>51418595
vimscript
>>51417659
Lisp is untyped crap. A relic of the past, just like you.
>>51418455
What are you talking about? Foldable and Traversable don't need lenses to be implemented.
All of you should stick with C and let adults handle this situation. Change is change, deal with it. You can adapt or swtich your fuxing lang.
>>51419291
> not using common lisp type annotations
>>51419291
There are typed lisps, such as chicken (optional typing), racket (forced typing in typed-racket files), and sbcl (optional typing). It's also not untyped but rather fully-inferred types.
>>51412869
Rust and D.
There are like 5 people developing new programming languages in dpt, so maybe next year there will be 3 new meme languages.
>>51418739
>Verilog
that's shit. even writing schematics by hand is better than using verilog.
>>51418612
>Enjoy your exponential time
>what is memoization
>>51422384
Enjoy your exponential space
>>51422501
Memoized recursive fib doesn't require exponential space you retard, it would take the same amount of space as just building the sequence as a list, maybe slightly more for hashtable overhead but it's nowhere near exponential space complexity.
>>51421112
K, then validate you I/O by hand.
Oh wait, you only do your ECE 101 coursework, not actual chip design.
>>51413804
Link please.
>>51415068
>julia
>indexing at 1
No thanks.
>>51414754
>>51417279
>C is Manly, Python is for “n00bs”: How False Stereotypes Turn Into Technical “Truths”
https://archive.is/XaASn
Here's an hilarious article from a site that only posts unironic SJW shit about tech and startups, run by a former neo-nazi, no less.
