I wonder how many people look past this wonderful distro, dismissing it as just a meme, and don't even try it for a little bit.
You're missing out on a great OS because of your memery.
>>51307911
But is it really necessary? It seems like a lot of fucking work. Why wouldn't you stick to Arch or something?
>>51307911
I used it.. It was a great distro, but way too much work. It's refreshing to use something like ubuntu or debian where things mostly just work how you expect them to. Building kernels isn't fun, it's time consuming and tedious.
>>51307958
>( edit kernel config, add modules )
>genkernel all
>hard
>>51307911
can actually confirm. It's really fukken great.
>>51307981
also, maybe you are not really aware of it, but editing kernel config it is actually time consuming. Well, if you want to leave the defaults and stick with that, - you are free to do so and save your time. But then what's the point to use gentoo, if you don't want to customize your kernel?
>>51307958
Gentoo is not really time consuming. It's more of one-time investment. Once you learn how it works, - you won't feel the need to do more with your OS than eix --sync && emerge --avuDN @world --keep-going
>>51308104
>you won't feel the need to do more with your OS than eix --sync && emerge --avuDN @world --keep-going
or cave sync && cave resolve world -xC s && cave fix-linkage -x
isn't having multiple package manager choices great?
>>51308104
>nano because vi and emacs are 3hard5you
>nano .config
>control+w "search for what needs to be configured
>insert a few or one keystroke/s
>repeat if nesc.
>control+x, save quit
>time consuming
Why are wireless drivers so hard to figure out on it? ;_;
>>51308078
>a fucking 3 line prompt
disgusting
>>51308222
how's paludis? Like, give me a honest feedback. Are there annoyances you've experienced with it? Why using it instead of portage?
>>51308228
I got 4 years of linux experience. And I can tell you, - it *IS* time consuming. Doing it is easy. Knowing *what* are you doing is not. In fact, if you procede by brutally copying your actual list of kernel modules in use at a certain moment, - you're doomed to repeat the configuration because there are certain requirements in the kernel to be satisfied without which some modules cannot be loaded. For example, there's no Realtek HDMI Audio without the generic HDMI audio.
Also, what if you occasionally use some piece of hardware that needs a kernel module to be loaded? like, an usb umts antenna? Or an android phone in tethering? There are modules for that, but they are not actively loaded. You need to know that they are there, and to select them previously, to not rebuild your kernel every time you remember that you got some gadget or piece of hardware that needs a kernel module.
>>51308286
my fuckin 3 line prompt rules :^)
>>51308104
>editing kernel config it is actually time consuming.
It's only time consuming the first time you do it. For subsequent updates, you can just copy over your old .config and make olddefconfig.
>>51308358
That's what I meant.
>>51308280
this.
The installation is really straight forward but the wireless drivers and shit...is so hard to setup. Is there any good guides on doing it easy?
>>51308319
>how's paludis? Like, give me a honest feedback. Are there annoyances you've experienced with it? Why using it instead of portage?
It's very strict when it comes to package dependencies and ordering, so sometimes I need to do a bit of wiggling with the .ebuild files, and sometimes I need to uninstall some things just to stop it from complaining about unsolvable dependencies.
I'm using it mostly due to the fact that in the past I managed to severly fuck up python, which as you might imagine is a big problem on gentoo.
>>51308419
Going through the handbook it would say to do something, then you do it and it still doesnt work. Scroll down and see that "if you have x, then go to y section"
and you repete
>>51307958# make defconfig
# make nconfig # disable/enable shit you need
# make -j$($(proc)+1)
# make modules_install
# make install
It only take me about 20 minutes to configure and ~3 minutes to build.
>>51308443
once I severely fucked up perl. But then I discovered a command called perl-rebuild, or something similar that fixed everything. Also, what did you do to python?
>>51308319
>modprobe dragondildosandotherthings
Yeah, I use it on my desktop. Portage is the comfiest package manager I've ever used.
>>51308493
kek yeah, I know about that. And it takes time to perform it for every module you think you will use. And what about those things you know nothing about? like, dunno, slab allocator? or the other internals? Customize everything takes a lot of time. But it's a one time investment I think that is worth doing.
>>51308419
dasgregor on youtube is the best visual gentoo installation i ever found.
he has a series of long videos and he explains everything pretty practically
>>51308535
I do agree for a toaster it's hard to compile everything then have to suddenly change one USE flag and then do another emerge -avuND world and holy fucking shit balls.
LLVM's compile time on a old POS almost gave me a stroke
>>51308556
I got a pretty powerful laptop, but there are some packages that take forever to compile. Like the fucking chromium or the llvm. They took me a whole ~4 hours.
I'm building a server these days, so I wonder if I can use it to set up an overlay, autobuild packages there, and then simply install the binaries when they are ready. IMHO this would be the coolest setup ever.
But I just installed LFS.
Maybe I should try this Gentoo thing too.
>>51307911
>jpg
DELETE THIS
>>51307911
yeah, have fun compiling packages from source.
i will just stay over here with apt, and not wait hours to compile Xwindows.
>>51308751
at least use aptitude, just to not bring shame to the linux users.
also, read the discussion: the long building times happen only during the first installation; the other times you can comfily do that while doing anything else. Right now I'm at work, and I'm updating my packages.
I might as well use bsd and have ports instead of portage (which is fucking great by the way)
>>51308474
Can't remember now, it was a long time ago. I think it wasn't even the pythons fault per se, but it would not start and most of the normal portage tools are written in python...
>>51307911
Nope. Used it for years. It was my first Linux distribution where I can say I understood Linux. It was the first thing I ever used full time on my desktop and laptop. And you know, it has its nice points, but it is a colossal waste of time and resources and it is unmaintainable for any serious production use on multiple machines.
No. I discovered my time was too valuable to be waiting for compiling things, fucking around with cflags, and so on.
It was a wonderful learning experience and I loved Gentoo very much and I would still recommend it as a learning exercise for those who really want to understand Linux, but I can't seriously recommend it for personal or professional use.
>>51307911
gentoo's the only distro that i can use and say i trust my packages, because i can harden the system up he ass and run it libre so i'll have the source available for -everything- i run.
i like gentoo for hardened systems, and it's pretty easy to get it to be small with a little time.
for my daily shit like "WAUW STEAM MEMES" etc, it's kinda difficult because selinux/grsec do not like steam games and i often have to do some shit too the binaries (sometimes fixing autistic text relocations myself)
it's a high maintenance, but beautiful distro.
Gentoo shills get off my board
>>51308876
I gave up on hardened gentoo on a laptop because of too much whitelisting to maintain. Ordinary gentoo is more than enough for me.
>>51308751
>wait hours to compile Xwindows
enjoy your shitty cpu
this is true, gentoo is the real distro for real linux users
On my thinkpad while on tty I get 4MB RAM usage
>>51307911
This. Gentoo is the only distro I was able to use for over 5 years (and still going). Everything else just breaks or is missing a bunch of critical packages, or has other problems. Gentoo just works so marvelously well, it's incredible.
>>51307936
The use flags make it all worth it, and the only real work you have to do is in the installation. After that, it's smooth sailing. As an added bonus, since you can install from any media, you don't have to rely on the livecd coming with drivers for your hardware, and you can install any driver you need before completing the installation.
Reason not to stick with arch instead is extremely simple: Gentoo is actually stable, and offers you several versions of packages in case something breaks despite the stabilization process.
>>51307911
I absolutely love Gentoo, but I simply have no time for it, so I'm currently simply running Fedora. But I'm Really looking forward to installing Gentoo when I have all the time in the world after I get motherfucking rich or retire or something
>>51308419
>>51308280
You might want to ignore the part of the manual about setting up a wireless connection and simply emerge connman or networkmanager from within the chroot instead. Wireless -drivers- should be no easier or harder than in any distro beside ubuntu.
>>51308905
You might want to try using RSBAC sources, and enabling global_learning_mode to get what you're using automatically whitelisted.
>>51311387
why use networkmanager or connman over wpa_supplicant?
I have an old HP/Compaq nc8000 laptop collecting dust. Should. I literally install Gentoo on it?
>>51311426
wpa_supplicant goes into an infinite connect-disconnect loop for me, so I don't recommend it. In the end, use whatever works for you.
Also, wicd a SHIIIIT.
>>51308078
I can confirm too.
>>51311460
Sure. Don't forget that you can add -bin to the name of most large packages that you don't want to compile.
>>51311480
There's really only a handful of those though.
>>51307911
Debian happens to have a much better package manager
>>51311521
Haha debian has the worst package manager ever.
>>51311495
There's really only a handful of large packages. Most take less than a minute to compile, some take around 5-10 minutes. There are some exception, but almost all big packages have a -bin version, even palemoon.
>>51311531
This.
>>51311542
That's true but some of the big non bin ones take ages on older hardware when you would need bin packages. Fucking webkit, jesus. Except this one, most take <1hour for me.
>>51311554
>>51311531
I've had no problems with it so far, but care to explain what I'm missing?
>>51311609
Having problems and it being shit are not the same thing, stop strawmanning.
>>51307911
Great OS been using gentoo for over a year now
>>51311626
Care to explain what makes it shit then?
>>51311609
A Ferrari and a bicycle get to you from A to B. I've never had a problem with a bicycle, care to explain what I'm missing?
>>51311642
A Ferrari might get you there a bit quicker and with less effort required on your part. I've tried it. It's really good.
>>51311371
I don't think it's worth to do compiling everytime you update
>>51311667
Bingo
>>51311642
I don't understand this analogy. Is gentoo the ferrari or the bicycle?
Because Ferraris break all the time and require constant specialized maintenance, but with bicycles you just apt-get install go-to-my-destination
>>51311609
No one actually ever answers that with an actual argument.
Oh, while we're on the topic of shit package managers, is Portage still vulnerable to MITM attacks by default?
>>51311722
>with bicycles you just apt-get install go-to-my-destination
All the while hoping the chain doesn't come off, you don't run over a thorn and get a puncture, that it doesn't rain, and taking forever to go more than a couple of kms.
No AUR and that's the only reason why I'm on Arch.
>>51311751
He said Ferrari, not teleporting spaceship.
>>51311770
>I've never heard of overlays
>>51307911
Installed gentoo, was a little disappointed.
Ok
>>51311531
How? I never have any problem with apt.
>>51311741
(in case anyone's wondering, Debian's package manager checks signatures by default)
>>51311878
> It's shit
> There's nothing wrong with it
pick 1
>>51312039
Having problems and not being very good are not the same thing.
>>51307911
>>51307911
some of us don't want to make our OS a full time job
>>51312072
Not being very good implies a problem. Here's a quick example:
> This burger is not very good
> What's wrong with it?
> NOTHING! Jeez, just because it's not very good does not mean it has problems!
>>51312072
Also,
> not being very good
That's quite the downgrade from the initial "worst package manager ever". Starting to lose confidence?
If you don't know a single programming language, nor intend to any time soon, you have no business or use installing Gentoo.
But it's funny because the majority of users who installed and use Gentoo do not know programming languages, zsh, bash, scripting don't count.
Installing Gentoo with the intention of installing a binary package manager is a useful and productive as installing a Arch and using Ubuntu virtual machine inside of Arch as your daily driver.
Any Linux is best Linux as long as it isn't Slackware.
>>51312223
No, it is shit at the absolutest level but you seem to have issues understanding so I was trying to dumb it down for you.
>>51312230
What's wrong with Slack?
i use to only use gentoo for two years straight from 2005 - 2007.
had it running on a amd athlon 64 3500+, 2gb of ddr 400, and a 6800ultra.
it was my first "true" distro. went from fedora core 1 and suse 9.0 straight to the "big leagues."
2007 i switched over to arch linux.
why? as much as i loved gentoo customization, it also brought massive breakage. back then with single cores the norm, compiling.... and if there was a libpng update and it required you to rebuild your entire system.... things really took forever. i remember spending 2 hours just to compile openoffice. yeah dual cores and quads just came out, but they were not universal like they are now.
arch, and today still is, is gentoo in the form of binary packages instead of source.
now i have a skylake i7 with 16gb of ram and nothing but ssd's, compiling doesn't take anytime at all, but to use gentoo i would have to crack open a whole slew of unstable packages since gentoo stable packages can't even give me ethernet or usb support. then there is the whole systemd debacle. gentoo is still primarily using its openrc and doesn't offer that great of support to systemd. yeah it offers it, but not by default, its a second class citizen, and its documentation for it is pretty bad. everyone else is going systemd, ubuntu is ditching their own init system for it, red hat adopted it, debian adopted, servers and administrators are now using it and learning it.
gentoo isn't shit, nor is it hard, its just in a rough spot now. i feel like its community has shrunk and many of its users have left to arch. its community use to be massively active and now its incredibly inactive.
>>51312247
Rather than dumbing it down for me, you could've spent that time coming up with a better argument. But anyway, I'll give you some time now. Go ahead and find a legitimate problem with apt. Since I pointed out a problem with the default configuration of Portage earlier, I'll be lenient and accept a problem with the default configuration of apt.
>>51312374
They can't. They don't actually even use Linux and only come here to shitpost for attention.
>>51312374
Just ignore them. Debian and Fedora are two of the best workstation distros around, followed by Arch.
>>51311751
so you faggot never understood how to use apt/dpkg, and now are blaming the tool for your own incompetence
great logic
>>51307911
I prefer Slackware, but I can vouch for this. Gentoo is a great user-centric distro, especially in comparison to Arch & derivatives (bleeding edge.)
Great for hacking and software engineering, as long as you know what you're doing.
>>51311609
For example, you have to manually append :i386 to each 32bit dep because it literally can't resolve correctly on its own. Purging often doesn't work right. It's slow. It does not support concepts like SLOTs. It requires a packing scheme that does not rely on any upstream providers. Etc.
>>51311675
It's 15-30min update per month, and it's not like you need to stop anything you're doing during that time.
>>51311741
I'm pretty sure it hasn't been since about 2005 or something like that.
All I want from my distro is a functioning mainline desktop environment, an up to date media player, and the ability to go weeks without rebooting. Why would Gentoo interest me?
>>51312230
Lmao you don't need to know "programming" to use gentoo, i've been using it for other things then programming.
And yes i know serveral scripting languages but who cares, compiling did take few hours with my old i7-620m but then i had everything i needed.
>>51314213
And yes fuck systemd, i'd like control over my OS
>>51307936
arch takes more time to maintain (and repair) in the long run
>>51314398
So just use Fedora then.
>inb4 fedora is unstable
No, it's not.
>>51314445
It actually is, however it isn't very breaky.
Configuring a kernel from scratch was hell. I've done it three times and I don't think I ever want to do it again.
>>51314496
>Configuring a kernel from scratch was hell.
It's incredibly frustrating to me until I realize what setting is causing it not to boot, or whatever, and in hindsight for me it's always really obvious and I feel like an idiot for not having seen it sooner. Not that that's true, that's just what it feels like.
genkernel is awesome though, it configures a setup and initramfs that will almost always work and which you can then edit the config file for. Saves a lot of trouble.
>>51311741
>>51313687
>I'm pretty sure it hasn't been since about 2005 or something like that.
Portage is not shit, and the only package manager that has given me more trouble than it with wacky dependencies is apt, but whenever I've used portage I was basically intentionally trying to break things.
Gentoo has started modernizing emerge (moving to emaint) so that you can sync with git and otherr stuff but it looks like it's still MITMable. I don't see signing keys anywhere, and afaik it just rsyncs with whatever mirror you tell it to. Not really something you have to worry about but debian does it the right way.
>>51314496
gentoo-sources
check your sata drivers
check your network drivers
check your sound chip
That's it. You've got a bootable kernel. How is this hell?
>>51312844
Yeah I'm sure that's his logic anon
>>51315217
And now you have all sorts of filesystem supports you don't need, the wrong processor archetecture, support for too many GPUs, probably no support for any power management, and tons of other small, obscure settings that you probably don't need, not to mention some which you would want but are disabled by default.
If you're just going to do what you suggested you're better off using Genkernel.
>>51314770
The problem with configuring a kernel isn't getting it to boot, it's going though and making sure you have the stuff you don't need and the stuff you do. It's impossible to remember the hundreds of obscure things that aren't drivers, unless you're a kernel dev maybe.
>>51315956
>The problem with configuring a kernel isn't getting it to boot
that's what I mean, it's pretty easy to take a genkernel or some other known working one and just edit out configs. The problem is when you do too much of it and you think you leave in the right sata settings but it turns out you did the wrong ones because they have similarly unhelpful names.
even this wouldn't be so bad if you just tracked all your changes, but there's hundreds of settings that all sound alike so you inevitably end up adlibbing it.
Considering how easy it is to just boot a genkernel or some other known-working kernel that you barely modified it's not much of a problem. It's like a lot of the other complaints with gentoo, configuring it in the beginning is time-consuming and may be difficult but once you get it working and know your drivers it ceases to be a problem. If you ever get to that point where you know which modules you need 90% of the other ones basically irrelevant.
>>51313863
Because it fits all that.
>>51314770
>I don't see signing keys anywhere
You have to get an initial secure image, or add the correct FEATURE and always sync the whole tree, to get a properly signed image. You can then use integrity checks because you have obtained the integrity data securely.
>>51316831
what feature are you talking about?
Redhat and debian derivatives crypographically sign their repos so that if you were to get MITM'd you would know it's a false repo. Until Gentoo switches to git for everything by default I don't see how you could stop that with emerge.
Emerge basically just goes to a website you tell it to and updates. If you got MITM'd there how would you check it?
>>51307911
I'm sure it's nice, but who the fuck honestly wants to spend an hour compiling wpasupplicant?
Installing Gentoo is a meme not because it's hard, but because it takes so fucking long to setup and only gives you a little bit of speed and control over something like Arch.
>>51317821
Pacman is probably the worst package manager I've ever had to use, so there's that. If you aren't going to use Gentoo you might as well use Slackware.
>>51317848
Once again.
>Compiling every fuck thing
If you enjoy reading lines of code and having that full control over your shit, that's fine. I'm fine with installing Debian, Openbox and a few other things and being done with it.
Gentoo, Arch and Slackware are considered hobbyist distros for a reason. Even the people who made the kernel don't use that shit.
>>51317899
Slackware doesn't force you to compile everything.
>>51317821
>an hour compiling wpasupplicant
do they even have wireless in the year 1992? talk about gentoo when your cpu is faster than 33 mhz grampa
>>51307911
>no stable apache 2.4
it's clearly a meme, dumbass
>>51318129
Why would a NEET with too much free time need Apache for? All they do is animu/Fizz buzz/shitpost.
>>51318129
>>51318230
Apache belongs in the trash anyway nginx is where it's at.
>>51317692
It's easy to setup the config for git.
>>51313661
>For example, you have to manually append :i386 to each 32bit dep because it literally can't resolve correctly on its own.
Are you talking about if an amd64 package depends on an i386 package or an i386 package depends on more i386 packages. I haven't tried the former but the latter works perfectly.
> Purging often doesn't work right.
That would be a problem with specific packages, not the package manager as a whole. I hope you made bug report against those problematic packages.
> It's slow.
Are we still comparing to Portage here? I don't know about other package managers but I can confirm that Debian's package manager is at least faster than Portage.
> It does not support concepts like SLOTs.
Good point. We can still have multiple versions of libraries installed due to the binary packages having different names though.
> It requires a packing scheme that does not rely on any upstream providers
Doesn't every packing scheme not rely on any upstream providers?
>>51317692
It's been a while but I believe you actually can configure Gentoo to be safe from MITM attacks. If you use emerge-webrsync, you can fuck around with the configuration to have it check gpg signatures. Eg: http://gentoo.gossamerhost.com/snapshots/portage-latest.tar.xz.gpgsig
>>51317692
>>51318373
Ah, here we go. I found it: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:Parts/Working/Features#Pulling_validated_Gentoo_ebuild_tree_snapshots
>>51312302
>gentoo isn't shit, nor is it hard, its just in a rough spot now. i feel like its community has shrunk and many of its users have left to arch. its community use to be massively active and now its incredibly inactive.
Gentoo is only a meme.
>>51318129
Packages in testing ~ aren't unstable, if something has problems it will be masked.
