Computer programmer vs Network Administrator?
Which job is better?
Both.
>>46626948
neither. sysadmin
Done both. Network admin for me with programming as a hobby. Admin jobs is a lot of down time until you're needed, provided your setup isn't shit in the first place.
With programming, unless you're working by yourself, in which case it likely isn't a large project, you're working under the thumb of someone. Eventually it crushes your spirit and makes you hate it. I quit programming for over 5 years because of it.
>>46626948
neither network enigneer
>>46627087
I recently feel really tired of boring enterprise style programming (Java, of course). Meanwhile, any small task that my sysadmin occasional asks me to help with is exciting and fun. I need to change my occupation ASAP. Would getting an RHCE cert be a good first cert?
Currently reading Unix and Linux Sysadmin Handbook.
>>46627208
the rhce cert isn't like the bullshit easy comptia certs, it's comprehensive and difficult if you haven't spent the last few years working in depth on red hat / centos systems. it can fetch you a very good salary bump if you have the experience to match it, and it might overqualify you for smaller positions if you don't have the requisite experience to be a higher level sysadmin
What do sysadmins even do?
Do they just oversee the network? like add users reset passwords etc
>>46627537
Actually, I would need to get an RHCSA before I get the RHCE. I hope I can pass the RHCSA at least after reading this book and maybe a Red Hat specific one. My current job doesn't really allow me to get much SA experience, but I kind of doubt I even have the right experience to get an entry level SA position, but that would be a definitely have a lower salary than what I'm getting right now.
Sysadmin. It's my dream job. I can't wait till I land a position. Fuck some programming. Except for powershell / vbs / batch files.
>>46627593
the specifics of your duties are entirely reliant on where you're doing your work, every sysadmin position i've done was a customer facing job where i supported servers that the customer rented. the job was really miserable despite the pay being good. i'm glad to be out of that.
>>46627087
I'm started to think about this. Currently going for CS, and currently starting to wonder if a job will kill the love I have of programming. Sys admin does sound alright
Can I get a decent sysadmin job with an Associates? What else would I need in the area of certificates and whatnot. I've been using Linux as a daily OS and server OS for years, I've read the books, I can install, configure and run systems and servers with fair ease.
And I'm 18 years old, no joke. So would that be a barrier? I did a program that let me get my Associates in high school for free, and I'm too lazy to get any higher education.
>>46627657
I was really excited about programming until I entered the enterprise atmosphere. Sysadmins always do something different everyday and seem so busy. Programmers literally just work on the same project for months to years silently in their cubes. Can't handle doing this for the rest of my life.
>>46627665
Also, (samefag), what's up with /g/ and system administration? I mean, I love the fact that from what's posted the majority of /g/ wants to or are currently in a sysadmin position, because I want to get one too.
Besides all of the constant flame wars, I think the majority of /g/ is full of like minded people.
>i'm gonna get shit for saying this
>>46627665
i have literally no college education and i worked for one of the largest server providers in the world as a sysadmin based solely on knowledge + a little experience. i was 21 at the time. if you can demonstrate your skills then they'd probably be glad to take you, most sysadmin jobs don't care much about an associates, let alone a bachelor's unless the company is huge.
>>46627700
Oh, really? Awesome. That lightens things up a bit. I've heard mostly that they want at least a Bachelors, and it's been worrying me for a while.
Thanks, anon.
>>46627724
they'll outright say they need a bachelor's or at the very least 'equivalent experience' in the job postings, if the posting doesn't have a requirement in that regard you can expect that they don't care much.
i think the idea of being a sysadmin is cool to a lot of people here because they already sit around fucking with linux all day as it is, it would be cool to be paid for it, but in a lot of position that aren't internal office support you'll find yourself working 10-12 hour shifts answering support requests from people claiming to be losing 10,000 dollars an hour because their dog taxidermy blog is inaccessible. you can only surf the internet so long at work before even that becomes stale. being in that environment for that length of time takes a lot out of you.
>>46627769
How do you deal with it? What's your average workday like?
>Hey can you open this port for me?
>2 weeks later it's finally open
The fuck man just give me sudo access
>>46627789
i heavily abuse drugs (which i do not condone.)
my average work day consists of walking into the NOC at 11pm, opening up the ticket queue and sighing heavily because the shift before mine suck at their jobs and can't clear shit, so i go through each one left over and take care of them. after like an hour i have the queue whittled down to nothing and then i just surf the internet until another ticket comes in. i pretty much sit around doing nothing for 12 hours and then i go home, i go immediately to sleep because if i don't i'll be fucked for the next day. rinse, repeat. don't work 12 hour shifts if you can help it, 10 is pushing it still.
i highly recommend having a hobby you're passionate about doing daily that you can bring to work and do in your downtime or else you'll go stir crazy.
>>46627865
Shit man. Sorry to hear that. Hopefully the 12 hour a day shift isn't the norm, though. Are you passionate about a hobby of some sort? Do you do anything in those 12 or so hours besides surfing the web?
Also,
>i lightly abuse drugs
>>46627831
Seriously, this.
The IT department at my work is mongoloid caliber.
general systems/networking guy here who started out programming, infrastructure in general is a ton more enjoyable to work on than programming. Unlike with programming you can actually have a career. This might sound silly but you can climb without having to go into management work. Infrastructure is a lot more vibrant than programming which is essentially always the same for the fast majority of programmers.
Networking has been the field I underestimated the most in it's depth. It should be enjoyable for anyone with a programmers mindset.
>>46627903
the 10/12 hour shift is most commonly found in positions where you'll be doing customer facing support. i believe the dream sysadmin job is a 9-5 in a tiny office where you make sure the exchange server doesn't shit itself and you can just relax in your own office doing what you please until someone complains "the internet isn't working" and you have to tell them facebook is blackholed on the network.
>>46628018
That's the one I'm hoping to get. :)
Have you tried looking for another job? You sound like you really, really don't like your current one. Maybe another sysadmin position, like the 9-5 dream one?
>>46628018
I had a job exactly like that for a few months, I couldn't take being at work and not working. I started to ask my boss for random jobs to do when I had nothing to do. I quit because it was a waste of time.
>>46627087
I would shoot my brains out of bordom. I can't live with down time!
If I didn't want to be engaged mentally I would be a NEET
>>46628044
yeah, those 9-5s are a lot harder to find than a general support position and generally want you to have a bevy of certifications to prove you know what you'll be doing when supporting their shit. i don't really feel like going and getting my mcse + whatever else looks good to these people, i kind of want to get out of the industry in general despite it absolutely being my wheelhouse.
>>46627083
fact: network admin is the sysadmin's bitch
I'm not OP, but I'm a web developer looking to transition into devops. I'm the only person in the office working on xubuntu, the only person who knows why binding to 127.0.0.1 doesn't allow other people to connect to your server whereas 0.0.0.0 does, and I have a CCNA. This makes me feel like I atleast have a shot of becoming a devops.
How big of a learning curve would I face by going into dev ops? Assuming I'm pretty decent with gnu/linux? Part of me feels like I'll get laughed out of my face.
I wrote a python script that uses upnp to forward ports. Doesnt use anything outside of the stdlib. I have no clue where I am on the devops skills specturm.
Any advice?
>>46628087
True. A good sysadmin can do a netadmin's job.
>>46628079
What are you wanting to do once you get out?
>>46628090
when i think dev ops i think about it in the context of a startup dev ops position which requires heavy knowledge of cloud based computing services like amazon ec2 as well as best practices for deployment of your service/application, is this what you're thinking of or is it more in line with the traditional sysadmin stuff i've been posting about in here
>>46628117
something hands on that i'm physically involved in, IT is such a detached industry, both mentally and physically, i need something different. i was thinking about precision machining, programming and operating >4 axis CNC machines. or putting a gun in my mouth. something like that.
>>46628090 here
This >>46627087 is exactly why I'm looking at devops. I'm tired to dancing to every whim of the design department. For the past 6 months, every developer has clocked in 750 billable hours. Management and design? 400. That 350 hour difference goes into stuff like "research" or just fucking around, whereas my department busts their fucking ass because things are always due yesterday.
>>46628122
In my mind, devops involved what you just mentioned on top of things like scaling shit/monitoring/repelling ddos and stuff like that. I've done deployments, even wrote my own bash script to make 'em work, but to me the role of devops seems a little hazy.
>>46627865
Fuck that sounds like a dream for a lazy piece of shit like me. Currently doing a computing degree that covers linux and networking but I suck at those subjects but does it require much know how or skills?
I spend all day surfing the net and doing nothing.
I'm a CCNA, I have a juniper and security+ cert. I've worked on junipers and brocade. I haven't even bothered to get my CCNP yet, which I will this year. I use www.ine.com (expensive but worth it) and GNS3 to study and learn new stuff.
I'm severe ADD. I don't think I could ever do anything other than networking because I am always doing something and there is always some part of the network I can be working on to either fix or improve. Implementing a network into a new building is like a splooge job.
Also, if you're serious be ready to at least do some basic manual labor. Think about that, a IT job where you can rip shit apart, sometimes heavy as balls shit, with your hands You work up a sweat and bust out a laptop and configure shit.
It's pretty awesome honestly.
>>46628193
it's definitely a hazy term as the role can be many different things depending on where you're working, which is why these startups try to find their 'all star' who can do literally everything by themselves. you're going to be doing most of the heavy lifting for the people working on the inside as well as the users wanting to visit your stuff. it's a high pressure job.
I work as a programmer and have a couple sys admin/net admin friends.
On one hand, I earn more than them (even though they have been working far longer) and have more upward mobility. Programmers with a few years of experience typically earn over $100k in my area. Most of my coworkers take home over $100k.
On the other hand, some of my sys admin friends are able to work remotely. They don't have to leave their house for work except a few times a year. That's a HUGE luxury (and typically one you won't have when you are starting out.)
Not many programmers are given the opportunity to do all of their work remotely, because there's typically lots of face-to-face meetings, pair programming, whiteboard discussions, etc. Software development has a large business aspect to it that you cannot escape, especially in an agile place. This is especially true if you work in consulting like I do.
Between the two though I prefer my job because I find the work more interesting. They spend most of their time fixing things. I spend all of my time building things. I simply find what I do more interesting. That's not something to overlook.
>>46628203
i feel like while having the degree is nice and all, your education really won't prepare you for the real job itself, you'll find that the majority of what you do is trying to remember tricks for dealing with obscure issues that you've experienced in the past. classes don't prepare you for much in a sysadmin life like they would for a programmer.
>>46628215
You just described my job. Except we're a Cisco shop. Lifting a 9k, racking it, and configuring it can be some fun shit
>>46628221
Thanks for your input. I'll consider it.
I'm applying for both developer and devops positions and I want to get to talk to people to see what they're offering, how they're describing the job, etc.
Another reason for me wanting to try devops is because most of my job is extremely boring front-end work. There's a lot of it and it's "complex" in the sense that you're trying to punch the DOM into something it's not supposed to do (ie. triangular elements).
>>46628144
Nope. No gun. Don't do it, anon. I'm here for you man. Just find something non-work related that you love and do it.
Do you have family?
>>46628268
I wouldn't have much experience with Linux besides classes but I love to problem solve when it comes to computers, I have fixed a lot of my own and families typical problems but nothing on the side of networking that would be my weak point.
The thing is I am kinda trying to figure a career to pursue now that I am in college, most of my friends want to be programmers and some of the more naive ones want to be game designers, I don't like the creative side and the fact you have to work with a lot of people and a lot of planning so that puts me off programming, especially since I am currently doing a lot of OOAD and soft design and testing this semester.
I am still not sure entirely what a system admin is, my dream job is to be the IT guy that idiots in the company call when their pc freezes would it be similar to that?
>>46628339
>my dream job is to be the IT guy that idiots in the company call when their pc freezes would it be similar to that?
this job title is usually "desktop support analyst" or some permutation of those words, not particularly a sysadmin unless you're a sysadmin for a small office and that work falls under your jurisdiction because you essentially exist as the entire IT department
>>46628355
>desktop support analyst
Do you know anyone who has this job or something similar? Does it pay good?
>>46628144
Gun is a bad option. Ive had a ton of bad IT jobs to the point where I wanted to do something completely unrelated. I dropped coding for 2 months, couldnt even fire up a terminal because I wanted to vomit.
My next job got me on a pretty cool team with people I trust and even though it was still shitty in many aspects, it showed me that jobs don't have to suck.
If you have a safety net, family/friends, I think you should seriously change your environment. If you live on the west coast, come to the east coast or vice versa. I set a deadline until when I'd work to make enough money to quit, saved as much as I could and man, handing in that notice and seeing that look of surprise on asshole-manager's face was worth everything. It also allowed me to get unstuck and get a job that payed more and was more enjoyable.
If a fuckup like me pulled it, you sure as hell can do the same.
>>46626948
Personally I want to go into computer security, get clearance, and find out all the cool secret shit like where they're hiding the Roswell aliens.
If you want to work with computers in a more practical way, I suppose Network Admin might be your better choice. Also you could use your job to amass influence within your workplace, and run things from the shadows.
>>46628388
the pay isn't fantastic and you are just a cog in the machine, it can be a stepping stone depending where you are, but it's nothing like a sys admin position (and rightfully so, because the only real qualification for a desktop support position is the comptia a+ cert)
SO? Nagios or Zabbix or what else do you nerds prefer?
>>46626948
Why isn't his good tongue covered in white??
>>46628406
good luck bro, security is mostly just the job of being the most hated person at the company. And you will go to bed every night knowing there is more to do and you will never feel accomplished then some day some zero day will come and fuck you in the ass and you will be at your desk for a week patching everything and going to meetings to figure out when things can be brought down to apply the patches, and no one wants downtime.
>this is why I drink
>>46628395
i've lived in california, texas, and chicago over the last two years. worked a few different jobs. went to rehab. been clean for a year. just losing patience with the entire industry.
>>46628433
>zbx_tcp_read() failed.jpg
>>46628425
Most jobs seem to offer around 40000 to 50000 yearly, I don't live in the real world so I don't really know how much money is a lot or not a lot. As for being a cog in the machine that is ideal for me, I don't like to be creative or to have a lot of responsibility I want a 9-5 job that pays me enough to live somewhat comfortably.
My dream since I was 10 years old was to go on the dole and be a neet but that was not realistic.
If hard work was in the bed, I'd sleep on the floor.
>>46626948
Computer programmer pays really well but you'll be bossed around, have shit hours and be forced to work overtime because of ridiculous deadlines set by your higher ups.
Network admin can get seriously boring with nothing do to, you'll also be paid less and have very few opportunities for overtime but as you grow older and weaker, you'll be happy that your job won't be making you lose well needed sleep.
>>46628488
>Most jobs seem to offer around 40000 to 50000 yearly, I don't live in the real world so I don't really know how much money is a lot or not a lot.
entirely dependent on where you live. in dallas i could have lived like a king on 65k a year, but back in chicago i would've been living a bit more modestly. it's a lot of money regardless of where you are, but it just needs geographical context.
>>46628490
what kind of fantasy dream world do you live in? failing hard drives, network issues, software failure, hardware failure, all these things.
network admins, as you get older you become wiser unless you are a fuckup, thats the real draw, is by time your 50 you have a group of faggots doing on call for you and you just make decree's from on high
>>46628525
I live in Ireland so all Ill ask around. Tech jobs are pretty abutment here thankfully but as far money I don't my parents even make that much yearly, I know someone who doesn't have a mortgage and she lives on a couple of hundred euro a week.
>>46628425
I'm in Desktop Support and I like it. You run across issues that require experience by being there before and run into issues that challenge your logic and creativity. That and you actually do physical work and not just say "Ok, I'll reinstall your print drivers....ok, I'll reinstall your program" all day remotely.
>>46627087
That's like every single engineering job ever
>>46628453
Aything it would be good to learn for the occupation anyway though? Anything at all to learn.
Since lately I've become all zen, with the whole , "all I know is I have more to learn" mindset to things.
>>46626956
secretary because you get to be boss' bitch.
>>46628715
check out the de-ice live cd's, get kali linux installed on a vm, set up pfsense on another to use as a router, and get it all going for a network with the third vm for de-ice then work your way through them. Its a good first step for pen testing
I'm kind of late but what about dba's?
sysadmins are literally just technologically literate NEETs who work like 2-4 hrs/week
inb4 hyperbole like "but if the fucking apocalypse happened i'd have to pull like 60 hours!!"
>>46628872
Sysadmining is like war.
99% boredom, 1% pure terror.
>>46626948
Maybe I'm wrong but it seems for network people most knowledge is transferible. What I hate most about programming is that you spend all those hours of your free time learning interesting things then go to your work maintaining 8 years old Java/PHP code
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRGljemfwUE
this is the kind of job I'd fucking love to have
is he a sysadmin?
>>46628861
you get paid good money to design a good database architecture and then you do nothing until all the shit hits the fan in which case your job is on the line.
so I started working on associates degree in network technologies, what can I expect
>implying sysadmins don't just reinstall adobe and turn the server off and on
>>46627769
I used to grow weed at work, that was fun
>>46629027
its a crapshoot, I am a sysadmin now and make 60k, there are people that went through the same program as me flipping burgers
If you have human skills (kek) you want to choose Network Admin
If you think doing math all day is fun, you should become a software engineer or computer scientist
>>46629117
What if I have 0 skills
>>46629117
>If you think doing math all day is fun, you should become a software engineer or computer scientist
Unless you actually want to have a career. It sucks that you have to choose between being underpaid or moving to a management/analyst position
>>46628884
God this is so true, there was literally like at least 6 months when I played WoW all fucking day at work.. But when that rare part calls, it's pretty bad ass and you remember why you get paid what you do. (actually this last week has been pretty much just 4chan, but today my fucking 1tb system drive died, and like an hour later, our COO's windows install just went corrupt and I had to reinstall, luckily I haven't had server issues since December and that was for an offsite company, be good and prevent shit with GPO's and security and you will be bored...)
>>46629102
I make about the same in Ohio. I do phones, email, backup, security, servers, printers, etc etc...
>>46629164
Careers are for bucktooth wageslaves. A true winner goes the entrepreneurial route and retires at 35.
>>46629012
I can't even stand the idea of developing DBs. I had to take a course to complete my program, and holy shit Boyce and Codd can go fuck themselves. It wasn't even hard just fucking dreary.
>>46629117
>needing skills for sysadmin
>
>>46628861
I was jealous for a long time, i'm sys admin, and seems like monster and job sites just want DBA's yet nothing good for admins... Not sure if its still the same, but I'd check help wanted ads to decide what direction to go.
Software Architect.
>>46629222
It takes a certain type of person.
I, for one, love designing database systems. It's all logic
I do both, and I have to say being a syadmin is nice if you are either working alone or with a smallish team, because you generally get to dictate the tools you use; whereas with a programming position you're probably going to be a glorified assembly-line worker.
To be honest, being a good sysadmin means you need to be good at both unless you're doing dead-simple shit with Windows servers (e.g. things your idiot customers could do.)
>>46628821
why does this picture make me happy.
>>46629446
Because it's a cute anime girl pictured in the golden age of computers, a beautiful time we were born too late to experience
>>46629222
It's a lot easier to digest in practice. I had a really hard time in my databases course but now that I'm in a job it makes more sense.
