>Debian switched to Xfce as the default desktop environment back in November 2013. But that didn't last long because a few days ago, Debian restored GNOME as the default desktop, based on preliminary results from the Debian Desktop Requalification for Jessie.
>According to Joey Hess, the Debian developer who performed this change, the main reasons for Debian switching back to GNOME as the default desktop are related to accessibility and systemd integration:
>As far as accessibility is concerned, Joey mentions that GNOME and MATE are ahead by a large margin while other desktops still need significant upstream work. As for Systemd, GNOME is ahead of all desktops which are "stuck paying catch-up to ongoing changes in this area".
>Of course, those aren't the only reasons that influenced this decision. Recent GNOME 3 improvements are fairly important too and so is the fact that unfortunately, the Debian Xfce team is pretty small.
http://www.webupd8.org/2014/09/debian-switches-back-to-gnome-from-xfce.html
Xfeces a shit! Gnome and MATE master race!
so what does systemd even do? let your shit boot up 1/2 a sec faster?
no worth it for something worse than the services.msc Microsoft uses.
GNOME is junk. They also blew all their donations on total bullshit not related at all to the project.
I wipe my ass with GNOME
>using xfce
Do people still do this?
Alright.
>>44331009
Don't act like you don't love me.
>>44331108
Dead garbage.
Xfce should dump their shit wm and bundle openbox by default.
>>44331117
Are we falling for each other? Is this what love feels like?
>>44331148
They won't because its shit.
It's already a cobbled-together piece of shit and you have to cobble together even more into it just to make it work.
the fuck is with the hate on xfce?
I don't use any DE's right now. But I shall say xfce is by far my favorite. who cares if it is what /g/ calls "deprecated"/ why fix what isn't broken. also. arent they actually uopdating it now? thought they were realsing a new version with bug fixes. xfce is great DE. most likely a bait thread though.
leave it to linux fags to talk shit about every distro or de.
Strangely enough, XFCE is the only DE I can stand using. I typically just use dwm and macro everything otherwise.
>>44331554
I think it's just one guy.
>>44331554
>the fuck is with the hate on xfce?
It's the most overrated pile of shit ever. Even LXDE is better.
>>44331554
>bug fixes
Make it so you don't have to do the trick to have the mouse cursor stop changing when you move to the menu bar and I'm happy
What's wrong with Xfeces?
>>44332407
Nothing; just keep using it like me and lots of others.
>>44330900
>GNOME
That's shit too.
Posting from muh KDE.
>>44330930
makes init scripts not a bitch to write, has superb logs, handles dependencies in a non clusterfuck way
boot times are so insignificant compared to the other things
>>44331108
If it wasn't for XBuntu or what ever its called, XFCE would've been dead long ago.
This from someone who used XFCE from the 3.X era, 4.X is just poop though.
It's unfortunate that a sack of shit flinging monkeys 1up the Gnome development team in UI design.
>>44330900
Why are you mentioning MATE? I think MATE is really good, and GNOME is way too bloated to be a default GUI for a distro like Debian.
But I think MATE works really well, and is no more or even less resource heavy than XFCE
I vote Debian switch to MATE
>gnome
it's almost sad how much OP samefagged in such a pointless thread.
Heres a few options that are better than GNOME:
Every single other option.
>>44330930
>what does systemd even do?
Gives the NSA root access to your machine
>>44332407
>What's wrong with Xfeces?
It's deprecated shit that never worked well to begin with and was only used because it runs on shitty system.
>>44332621
>I vote Debian switch to MATE
They eventually will.
>>44332561
Even Xubuntu users are already thinking about moving to Ubuntu MATE when the next LTS comes out.
GNOME masterrace. I give a shit about what /g/ says. The hate is so big that even on the wiki they say GNOME is crap.
>>44330900
damn it. i dont even hate systemd but i hate it has so much influence in fucking everything and then poettering goes out and says it isn't a fucking parasite
god damn it
at least we can still hope for LX-Qt with Q5 and full Wayland dependency
>>44333309
PCManFM now supports dual-pane
Im sold
>>44332533
I agree but
>has superb logs
default management of logs is retarded, you have to have systemd installed on your system to read other system's systemd logs. Its improvements aren't even that necessary considering you can pipe and filter logs any way you want with grep, awk, etc
I know you can change it to have plaintext logs instead but that'd be a non default config, and we all know 99% people dont touch defaults
>>44333319
like dolphin?
yaaaaaaaaaaaaay
btw is that release stable, beta, alpha or what?
>>44333338
not too familiar with dolphin, but ive been using xfe, which is quite old and a little buggy.
Im runnning just PCManFM, not the full DE. Im running Debian Testing, and its in the repo.
No LXQT in the repo yet, but there is a Debian based distro that includes LXQT; Siduction
>>44331554
This DE can't even get compositing to work correctly without requiring some third-party solution. If they can't get something so simple working then I'm hardly going to put my faith in the rest of their environment.
Fuck Xfce.
>>44333338
>like dolphin?
So ugly
i3 master race
>using a desktop with debian
what the FUCK is wrong with you people?
>>44331169
What a bunch of nonsense. Have you even tried Xfce?
>cobbled together
That's good. Xfce is fully modular, you can install its components individually without many dependencies and that's quite something. Now try installing one of the KDE software, for example their taskbar. Enjoy pulling 20 dependencies and the whole KDE desktop.
Xfce is the Arch Linux of desktop environments.
>>44334755
>debian is only usable as a server OS
>it's not like they have a 2 additional repositories with more up-to-date software suitable for general desktop usage!
Educate yourself, fool.
>>44335233
why the FUCK would you want to use them?
>>44332717
I know you're trolling, but eventually Lennart achieves his goal and GNU/Linux becomes like Windows; compromised and full of government backdoors.
>>44335303
>but eventually Lennart achieves his goal and GNU/Linux becomes like Windows; compromised and full of government backdoors.
Source?
>>44335263
Because some people like the extensive Debian repository, like its package manager and want newer packages on their Debian?
>>44335225
> Xfce is the Arch Linux of desktop environments.
I'm fine with this definition, since to me Arch is shit.
>>44335438
I see that you didn't understand the metaphor.
>>44330930
It's Linux's successor.
>>44330900
>As for Systemd, GNOME is ahead of all desktops which are "stuck paying catch-up to ongoing changes in this area".
In other words, "API exists, therefore it must be used".
It's all bloated crap anyway. Even LXDE is bloated and buggy now.
>>44331554
/g/ tends to avoid things that aren't seeing diffs with a net change of +5000 lines every week. Not trendy enough. "Dead".
>>44332533
Sorry for unrelated question, but do you know why my /etc/inittab won't work?
I try removing getty lines from it so i only have like 2 or 3, and it always has 7 when it boots up. Is systemd handling the initial setup of ttys now?
If so, how do I change it?
>>44335389
no I mean why the FUCK would you use them for desktop still
>>44335620
>Is systemd handling the initial setup of ttys now?
Yes.
Speaking of /etc/*tab, the team wants to do away with fstab entirely (hilarious, I know).
>>44335627
Fred Durst, please stop posting in this thread.
>>44335645
That's ridiculous, because util-linux is supposed to supply the mount command, which handles the mounting. Has nothing to do with systemd.
I don't think sysvinit has ever read /etc/fstab.
>>44335627
Please, tell me what you think is so different? Here is an example: Openbox. Let's see which version is in the Debian repositories and which version in the Arch repositories.
>Debian
>3.5.2-7
https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=openbox&searchon=names&suite=jessie§ion=all
>Arch
>3.5.2-7
https://www.archlinux.org/packages/community/x86_64/openbox/
Do you understand now? Debian ISN'T an exclusive server OS.
I use XFCE every day and have been for a couple of years.
Am I supposed to be having problems with it?
>>44335687
systemd's not just init, it's a hungry hippopotamus.
>>44335617
have fun being stuck with x.org, moron.
xfce is a ghost town that will be stuck on gtk2 for a while.
>>44335708
Don't worry, I'm on /dev/draw. Decades ahead of X and Wayland.
>>44335696
Well, if you like using DEs instead of window managers, go ahead.
>>44335705
I know systemd gets a lot of flack and critical reviews, but why can't I just use OpenRC on Debian? Why is it so hard?
Debian is just supposed to be one of those drama-free operating systems where they do everything right enough and give the users freedom and choice. I don't like all the crap people throw at systemd.
>>44335645
no, they don't.
>>44335687
systemd calls mount.
a sysv script did read fstab before, yes it fucking did, and called mount. you are retarded and don't know shit.
>>44333324
> you have to have systemd installed on your system to read other system's systemd logs
That is the case right now. But I think at some point someone will write a systemd log reader, which is multiplatform.
>>44335751
I realized my mistake after I posted, but thanks.
>systemd calls mount
Then that proves that there's no need for systemd to replace mount.
>>44335225
The KDE dependency hell is just ridiculous.
>Pulling okular
>Pulls 500 MiB of shit with it.
>>44335744
you can. openrc isn't a replacement for init.
why are there so many people who don't know what the fuck they're talking about in these threads.
>>44335764
>I realized my mistake after I posted
you were pretty cock sure about it. took a long time to correct yourself there.
>Then that proves that there's no need for systemd to replace mount.
it doesn't.
are you even reading what I typed? do I have to show you the docs?
>>44335751
>no, they don't.
Unfortunately I can't find the blog post where Lennart (IIRC) discusses mount units and 'deprecating' fstab.
>systemd calls mount.
automount(8), isn't it?
>>44335773
Yeah. Unfortunately it's the least broken-feeling DE out there.
>>44335789
no, it's mount. as in util-linux you fucking retard.
>discusses mount units
if you have dependency and parallelization it makes sense to put in a feature like that.
>>44335778
>https://wiki.debian.org/OpenRC
>OpenRC is a dependency based init system
It sounds like it is meant to replace init, just not easily in Debian, because Debian has the sysvinit and systemd packages marked as "essential".
>>44335817
You do not know what you are talking about. Stop posting.
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/OpenRC
>>44335814
Why are systemd proponents so needlessly vicious when spoken to in a completely civil and honest way?
>>44335837
because I have to deal with you shitposters constantly not knowing what the fuck you are talking about, moaning about "MUH UNIX PHILOSOPHY," repeating blatant lies, etc
every thread. same shit.
retards deserve to get talked down to.
>>44335856
oh it's you, the same cunt from every thread
HE DOES IT FOR FREE
>>44335831
Well maybe finit would be okay then.
Why is systemd parsing /etc/fstab when automount already exists specifically for that purpose?
>>44335870
I've only been back for several threads this week, so not every thread, but it's amazing how they have not changed in months while not coming to this shithole.
same circlejerking from retards such as yourself.
>>44335856
Shut up you corn encrusted knob of cat shit
>thread about XFCE
>turns into one systemd evangelist insulting everyone
Might as well rename Linux to systemd.
>>44335893
>but it's amazing how they have not changed in months while not coming to this shithole.
Poor babby defines his existence by how much love Lennart is getting.
>>44335753
Still an unnecessary fucking hassle and a testament to how shitty systemd is because
>at some point someone will write a systemd log reader,
>write
It's already written. If systemd really was as modular as it claims to be, we could simply install the binary that reads the logs separately.
>>44335906
>Poor babby defines his existence by how much love Lennart is getting.
I'm just calling out retards who spew their uneducated opinions. Feel free to prove me wrong. You're probably one of them.
>>44335906
Maybe we can name it GNU/Linux/systemd.
>>44335931
You're not really said anything about anything, though; you've said a lot of 'retard' and 'moron' and 'you don't know what you're talking about' in response to fair questions, but little of substance.
Is there any other piece of obscure system software you get so frenzied over?
>>44331554
>>44332407
XFCE just can't seem to decide if it is supposed to be a real desktop environment or a toy for people who want to tinker with UIs and ghetto hardware. Certainly, it has some things like GUIs for system settings that one would expect from a desktop environment, but I've never seen a system where all of them worked properly, and even if they did they're horribly lacking for modern use cases.
Multi-monitor? Lel, enjoy redoing the monitor layout over and over again. Color management? What's that? The colors looked nice on the CRT in the developer's basement back in 1998. Bluetooth, audio routing and advanced wireless configuration? Enjoy messing with a dozen unrelated tools. Almost feels like a typical Windows install with its random applications and bad GUIs from different hardware manufacturers, except with fewer logos.
Last time I tried to seriously use the desktop, the broken multi-monitor support somehow kept breaking the panel badly enough it wouldn't render again until it was deleted and rebuilt. I'm not sure where it was actually trying to draw itself, but it sure as hell didn't overlap with the visible display coordinate space.
It just doesn't do the things a desktop environment should.
>>44335975
>'retard' and 'moron'
They were
>'you don't know what you're talking about' in response to fair questions
It's not a fair question when someone is so cock sure and circlejerking about how terrible systemd and debian is when they don't even know what the fuck openrc does.
Pantheon is obviously the best amongst all.
also, elementary OS Thread
>>44335978
> I've never seen a system where all of them worked properly, and even if they did they're horribly lacking for modern use cases.
It's called Xubuntu.
>audio routing and advanced wireless configuration?
I don't know what that has to do with Xfce. Those tools are DE independent and most DEs just ship them together.
PulseAudio has become the current de-facto standard (like it or not) for anything audio related and it's included in Xubuntu (the most popular Xfce distribution).
NetworkManager is also the most popular/easiest way to configure anything network connectivity related, included in Xubuntu (and every Ubuntu).
Again, I don't see what those 2 have to do anything with Xfce.
>>44335627
Ive been using Debian as my desktop OS for the past 5 years.
Tried most of the other big distros, theyre all shit compared to Debian
>>44336169
Dont try to find logic on 13 yo posts about eye candy. Get in, laugh, get out.
>Debian switched back to Gnome because of "systemd integration"
>This is somehow a good thing
Also why does the OP give a fuck what desktop people use?
>>44330930
better boot time is just a result of doing things the right way. Systemd's aim is not be as fast as possible
>>44330900
kek xfce is the single nonretarded DE, too bad they are not trying to port it to wayland or something (but there is always lxqt)
>>44336169
>Xubuntu
Whut, that shit boots to a desktop post-install now?
>PulseAudio
>NetworkManager
Both of those are dbus-enabled system services; to get a GUI you need separate applications. Why even use XFCE if you're going to install and start up most of GNOME to get shit working?
>>44335909
Then distro maintainers could make a package "systemd-utils" and make it a dependency for systemd. It's not systemd's problem, it's a distribution problem.
>>44330900
>Debian
>GNOME
Could it be any more cancerous? Xfce should totally be considered "default" for any distro, and I'm a LXDE user. (pic related)
>>44330900
so how is the updated Gnome 3 now? still a bloated piece of shit only topped by unity?
also can i make it work on my old 1GB Ram macbook shitbox?
>genoo/loonix still playing catch up with Windows 8.1 update 1 and Mac os tententen
I just lost this you laugh you lose thread
>>44336543
>I was too retarded to install Xubuntu this one time
>DBus is GNOME now
>>44335909
Systemd is modular. You can use systemd with or without the log reader. It's your choice.
>>44336706
>Systemd is modular
>>44336767
Systemd is modular
>>44335744
>Debian is just supposed to be one of those drama-free operating systems where they do everything right enough and give the users freedom and choice
And then they started spoonfeeding feminists.
Yes, just remember: systemd was forced on Debian because Debian Women had a fuckton of pull in the decision table.
>>44336817
;_; I remember the dreadful day ;_;
http://archive.rebeccablacktech.com/g/thread/S40261421
XFCE mustard race, silly pleb
>>44331554
>the fuck is with the hate on xfce?
Autists and edgy cunts hate it because it just werks and isn't full of cancer like KDE and GNOME. Always the same story with these kind of people..
>using debian
lel
>>44335696
>I use XFCE every day and have been for a couple of years.
You poor idiot
>>44337141
I am the same as that guy. And I can honestly say I am more productive and enjoy my computing more than ever. What alternative would you recommend that is actually better?
>>44337750
>in b4 systemd shills
>>44337759
>he uses a shitty DE because he has a shitty PC
Breaking News: systemd murders xfce
>>44338173
Good
>tfw i hated linux till i knew xfce existed
that this is the tits
>>44338299
When I found out about Ubuntu MATE, I suddenly felt like using Linux again.
>>44331676
Sam3
if the xfce developers doesn't get their shit together and fucking deliver, more distro's will follow debian
I use KDE, but I don't see why you would just shit on another DE like that. Talking about DEs and their upsides and downsides should be friendly because ultimately it's about the user, and they shouldn't be yelled at for not using what you want them to.
>>44335744
Debian is just supposed to be one of those drama-free operating systems where they do everything right enough and give the users freedom and choice.
dats gentoo
>>44338529
>if the xfce developers doesn't get their shit together and fucking deliver, more distro's will follow debian
I seriously hope they fail because Xfeces is the buggiest DE I have ever used.
>>44338627
i personally believe this is why the development seems dead, they're working like crazy to iron out all the bugs. it's an make it or break it deal. if they can't deliver 4.12 until the next xubuntu release, they're completely fucked, since that distro is their flagship
what "recent gnome 3 improvements" were there?
>>44331009
i do, GNOME works badly for some reason, xfce is very light
>>44338713
4.12 will come out after Ubuntu 14.10, so I've read on the forums. Check it our for verified info.
>>44333130
lol
>>44338999
really? i'm not that far off then. you got sauce?
>>44335617
>built on top of a bunch of old software
>blatant bugs that still aren't fixed
>performance not even that good for a "lightweight" environment
Fuck XFCE. If you want lightweight, you'd do better to set up your own DM, WM, and software from a minimal install. And if you're too fucking lazy to do that, install Crunchbang, Manjaro, or some other distro with a preconfigured Openbox+Tint2 set up.
>2016
>gnome finishes porting its apps to javascript
>pulseaudio still can't resample worth shit
>running wayland in an x server on nvidia
>bluetooth stack reimplemented in ruby
>power stuff requires gnome
>gtk still as bloated as fuck but everything lives in a webkit shim
>gtk 2 file opener/saver
>kde is dead
>xfce is dead
>lxde development is slow as fuck
tfw
>>44339121
>2 years
>KDE falls from being one of the most popular DEs to death
Unlikely.
>>44339141
look at where kde 5 is heading, look at once popular kde websites like their own forums and kde-look.org. it's dying, man
>>44339035
Give me a few minutes, I'll try to find the thread.
>>44339170
>>44339035
>>44338999
>The other thing to keep in mind is that the Xfce developers are planning to release 4.12 by christmas in time for the next Debian release which means that most probably, the main distros like Xubuntu will start releasing PPAs for that version.
https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?pid=33803#p33803
That thread also has a few screenshots for the new minor updates. Apparently, some components are getting ported to GTK3, which is good I guess.
>>44339121
>apache2 is required by gnome
thanks obama
>>44339121
>lxde development is slow as fuck
You mean stopped as fuck. They merged with RazorQt into LXQt and I don't think they plan on keeping the separate entities alive anymore.
why do people hate systemd again?
>ITT: Red Hat shills advocating their piece of crap DE called Gnome
dat amount of desperation
>>44330900
xfce is brilliant
using it for a few years now
love it
>>44335303
>implying open source code can ever have a "backdoor"
more like a front door
>>44331009
What's wrong with it? Works awesome for me and it's relatively light.
>>44339527
>it's relatively light.
This is the only reason Xfeces is used today. It is still a buggy mess.
>>44339527
There are alternatives that are lighter and less buggy, like setting up your own WM instead of some hacked mess built on out of date software that hasn't had a meaningful update in about 2 years.
>>44339527
>relatively light
I find it hilarious that people with 16 cores, 1Gb video cards, and 64Gb of RAM feel the need to use "light" desktop environments.
>>44340727
>I find it hilarious that people with 16 cores, 1Gb video cards, and 64Gb of RAM feel the need to use "light" desktop environments.
That's not what is happening. Xfce is primarily used by NEETs who are forced to use a very old computer, such as their mom's old PC.
Everybody with money uses GNOME or KDE.
>>44340727
to not waste computation on the DE rather than say simulations
>>44340727
>everybody is gayman masturd race
If XFCE then which lightweight DE should I slap into my parents notebook?
I tried LXDE and they feel ok about it, although I don't know how to enable hotcorners (not an issue for them).
>>44340762
>Everybody with money uses GNOME or KDE.
topkek
