Solar Roadways
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You are currently reading a thread in /g/ - Technology
You are currently reading a thread in /g/ - Technology
Good idea or a pipe-dream?
> What is a solar roadway?
The short version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlTA3rnpgzU
> The issues:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obS6TUVSZds
He does get a bit passionate, but is his science right?
> If the Solar Roadway science is wrong:
Is it a con, or just a very starry-eyed idea?
Can other sources of power be used to make this possible? (Depending on the country, Wind, Water, even Thermal)
> If the science is right:
Are the people who think the SR is not possible energy company shills?
Will this give as much return as they claim?
Will this work in other countries?
[spoiler]Looking at the 'debunking' videos, it seems pretty condemning, but I don't know electrical engineering.[/spoiler]
>>43202724
anyone that has used a solar panel knows that angle is very important.
at best it's a pipe dream, but more likely it's a scam.
>>43202724
it is/was a scam to jew for money.
stop falling for kikestarter faggotry
>>43202724
>Good idea
>Issues will either be resolved or crush the idea, simple as that
>SR gives more returns than our conventional roadways, so it's worth pursuing, even if the return isn't *as* great as originally mentioned.
>solar roadways
>in the united states
Do these people live in reality? Have they ever experienced how shitty (at least North Eastern) roads are? How can we expect our government, who can't even fix the roads we have, to implement these?
seems like a fantasy to me
$2.2 million for a quirky video..?
I hate the world.
>>43202724
Why would you put solar panels on the roads instead of beside the road or above them?
Or hell even better, put solar panels on dedicated spots that get maximum sunlight, like deserts - oh wait, those are called solar plants and already exist.
It's literally retarded.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obS6TUVSZds
>>43202724
Idea didn't seem terrible, but as a Canadian the most significant problem I see is that their plan is to have the roads heated to melt snow and ice during a season where we have the least sunlight reach the ground. The net loss in energy would be pretty massive.
>>43202824
treehugger tumblrs kept trying to take down that video by reporting it and marking all the comments as spam.
>>43202724
It's a pipedream, anytime something good looks like it's going to happen, or is doing well, it never turns out. EVER. There are black niggers in charge of stuff, since then the only advancement since 1969 is that silicon printers got higher resolution, and therefor can print smaller microchips. (The higher resolution is due to faster processors, which was caused by higher resolution silicon printers, and they have fed this cycle since the 60s. If it looks like things are advancing, YOU'RE WRONG. Nothing is changing, the internet is just a mere series of tubes, that evolved into a series of glass wires (technology from the 60s) Supply and demand, and competition, along with lower manufacturing cost has provided technology that could have been developed in the 60s to the public, and that's why computers are better and cheaper.
There almost no major technological advancements, everything that is considered an "advancement" is just built on the original model built from the 60s
>>43202766
>>43202761
Source that it's a scam?
>>43202908
>silicon printers
lolwut
That youtube video sounded like some Let's Play bullshit directed at 16 year old pot-heads. Expressions like "Awesome", "Thing" and "Stuff" make you sound like another scammer and there were enough of those on Kickstarter lately.
I am repelled by this video and viral marketing on /g/ and will do everything in my power to stop these people from scamming idiots.
>>43202724
This such a fucking scam.
>>43202912
common sense
>>43202912
Reality. It's so impractical and costly that the only options are that it's a scam, or the people at the head of the project are actually delusional retards.
> The issues:
What the fuck are you even curious about it if someone who knows what he's talking about goes on for 30 minutes about what a retarded idea it is?
>>43202936
>and will do everything in my power to stop these people from scamming idiots
good luck with that. i have lost faith. you can't help idiots
This is even worse than Earth-launched space solar. Driving is really dirty and abrasive. Efficiency will drop rapidly. What is the purpose of putting them under cars?
>>43202824
He has some really weird brand affiliations. Calls most things crap if they are not from a select few brands he uses.
>>43202724
>Roads can barely be maintained using the cheapest building materials available
>Power production adversely affected by dust, which roads are magnets for
>Constant shadowing of passing vehicles reduces potential output
>Tyrones will steal it
It's never gonna fucking work.
>>43202724
Solar has always been shit and always will be. It's a cool idea and all but it will never be practical (economically and otherwise). There will always be a greener, cheaper, and more efficient alternative.
What a backwards idea. Once graphene is being mass produced it'll boost solar panel efffiency to about 80%. We won't need solar roads.
OP here
>>43202996
Wasn't sure if math was legit.
Pretty unanimous verdict. I wasn't sure, I could see energy companies doing anything to condemn it. Been on the other boards too long.
Wasn't gonna donate anyway. Thanks Tech.
Sorry for wasting your time with it. Want to turn this into a green energy thread?
>>43202824
>engineer
>goes on about the viewing angle of LEDs like it is impossible to move them.
>>43202824
disregarded for bogan
>>43202824Failed to recognize file format.
meh.
whats the run down?
>>43202908
nice pasta
>>43203289
the rundown is use a browser because you're not actually a special snowflake who has to run his links through VLC or something like that
>>43202724
Not this shit again. It's a scam.
>>43203235
with a project this size it really sucks, because we'll have to wait quite a while until they are exposed and the shit hits the fan
The great thing about solar roadways is that you can dismiss the idea with the same logic and facts that you can use to dismiss solar, then apply about a factor of 10 because of the way they want to implement them.
Solar power doesn't match grid demand. Peak demand falls after the solar PV output falls to nothing. What this means is that you need a number of fuel fired plants on standby that can meet all of the grid's demand, which would be producing no power for the daily demand.
What it means is that plants that have real construction costs, and ongoing depreciation costs will only run for about 4 to 6 hours a day. Yes it saves money on fuel, but it costs money due to the lack of selling a profitable product the rest of the day.
Their is no grid level storage medium that is even dreamed about today, that would be cheaper than building a gas plant that burns gas all day to keep it's turbines at operational temperature, just to run for 4-6 hours. (and that's even counting the huge loss of revenue for building something that only runs for 1/4 of the day).
If you by magic made a storage device that was economical, it would be cheaper to attach it to a nuclear power plant, or a coal power plant, or a gas power plant and charge it during the lower demand times so it could meet the higher and peek demand.
Solar panels are best used in locations without access to grid power, or in ultra low energy requirement applications.
Unless your grid power provider is running diesel generators (or solar PV) as it's only power source, home use of solar PV panels and the storage and inverters needed to produce useable residential power will never pay for it's self or ever cost less than grid power.
Even better, in case of a fire, a growing number of fire departments around the world will not fight a fire in a house with a large number of solar panels because of the real risk of electrocution from the huge number of batteries needed to make a solar system work.
>>43203351
no ty, apparently there is a youtube-dl script though.
usually mpv jus werks though.
It's a fucking pipe dream.
Solar panels of today's technology are not even close to being efficient enough to provide the power for even the LED road markings, let alone the snow melting heating elements they're talking about, and the thought of them piping excess power back into the grid is a fucking joke. It will be decades before the math works out, with the current progression of solar cell technology. You'd be better off going piezoelectric for the fucking things.
That's not even taking into account that these things are fucking *roads*, which cars drive across all day, blocking sunlight and depositing dirt/rubber all over them.
What about the optical properties of the glass they'll have to use? It needs to be tough enough to drive trucks over, so it'll have to be really fucking thick glass.
What about the grip levels of the glass? What kind of surface will the glass be? Will cars slide straight off during a rainstorm, or will a rough surface be applied, further disrupting light transmission?
Just basic examination of the current state of technology, what they want these roads to be/do, and what problems may come up, just doesn't pass the smell test.
>>43202912
Common sense, they've already stolen millions
>>43203380
>>Solar power doesn't match grid demand. Peak demand falls after the solar PV output falls to nothing. What this means is that you need a number of fuel fired plants on standby that can meet all of the grid's demand, which would be producing no power for the daily demand.
You do know that power grid peak time is the middle of the day, right?
You know, the time where solar power generation peaks?
>>43203289
Working fine here
>>43203380
Instead of shitty batteries, I'd store solar energy by chilling a large tank of water and running that through a radiator to help with cooling during the time between when the sun is no longer directly overhead and late at night when it's cool enough outside that the air conditioner can shut off.
It's probably still a shittier system than a geothermal sourced heat pump.
>>43203564
Residential demand peaks in the evening though, when people are getting home from work, turning down the AC, cooking dinner, etc.
>>43203576
>Residential demand peaks in the evening though
Still far less demand than the actual peak during the day.
>>43203564
>You do know that power grid peak time is the middle of the day, right?
>You know, the time where solar power generation peaks?
It's not it's early evening. Please educate yourself before making ignorant statements.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zD0m_ci-oo
Pic is a graph from a report from Ontario, however it's mirrored in Texas and California as the video references.
http://www.ontarioenergyboard.ca/OEB/_Documents/EB-2004-0205/Navigant_report_TOU_Rates_in_Ontario_Part_1_201312.pdf#page=56
>>43202781
the roads are shit because they freeze over then expand in the winter,
im guessing plastic roads wont do this, but yeah you have a point
Anyone who seriously believes this could work should kill themselves right the fuck now or I swear I'm going to hunt you down and kill you myself with a spoon
>>43203698
>Still far less demand than the actual peak during the day.
Non residential demand has a near peak demand from 11 to 17 I agree, however the total grid demand still peaks in the early evening.
>>43202824
pretty interesting
>>43202771
>SR gives more returns than our conventional roadways, so it's worth pursuing, even if the return isn't *as* great as originally mentioned.
It's likely due to the LED, micro inverters, components to run as a network, components needed for other features, angle, dirt, etc, that solar roadway panels will cost more to make than they'll provide for in energy, installation isn't free, maintenance isn't free, etc.
So, in the end:
It costs more to make the panels than you get out of it
It's unlikely the panels will even produce more energy than they use
It's extremely unlike the panels will produce more energy than is used to make them.
protip: everything on kickstarter is a scam or developed by retards.
>>43202824
>>43202824
that video is almost unwatchable - the guy should have scripted his response cos he just sounds like he's ranting
so you combine the worst way to generate solar power and the worst way to pave the roads and voila you have solar roadways and you are now officially retarded. sage sage sage.
>>43203724
It's not the roads that freeze over it's the water that seeps into cracks into the road that freezes, expands, and makes the cracks bigger.
Unless these panels are tight between each other frozen water will cause the same problems.
>>43203998
They can't be tight against each other, because cycling from -10°F to 140°F every year will tear them apart. Even regular concrete roads with gaps left between slabs buckle in the summer.
The idea is insane for one reason alone
Asphalt currently works out for large scale road building to be around $0.20 per square metre. These panels will wor out to be around $15 per square metre to install and operate. The energy they use will be approximately 4 times the energy they save
Any government that tried to implement this would have to be certified insane and locked up
It's so costly that we could give every driver in the US a top of the line electric car,and still have enough money left over for the electric car infrastructure.
>>43204040
They also can't be tight together, because the surface of the road always has a tiny slope for rainwater. When the road is straight it slopes from the middle, and when the road is curved the slope goes down towards the curve. That would not be achievable without many different tile shapes, which would increase production costs even more.
If solar roads ever worked, it would have to be with a bendable, rolled, or paved form of solar cells, and not tiles/panels.
I've personally worked as a grunt on both on roads and on solar farms. Paving roads with glass would be like paving roads with an extremely breakable and expensive form of ice, except even more slippery than ice.
>>43202857
Really? Proof?
It's not unbelievable but I'd like to believe there's no community so stupid a group from it would do such a thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H901KdXgHs4
>>43202724
it's literally a scam to take people's money
modern day version of the traveling salesman selling snake oil
>>43202724
But wouldn't it sounds interesting, but I wonder if we can put it in stuff like electric cars and trains.
>>43202724
Wait, wouldn't it take 1/2 of the engery to actually light them up and make signals.
>>43207448
actually pretty much all of it or more
>>43207399
At least back in the day you'd be left with a bottle of snake oil.
Kikestarters sell hopes and dreams
>>43202724
Shit idea, solar is a dead end and we have trouble managing our normal roadways.
Can you imagine using networked solar panels to do this shit? Even if we ignore the initial startup cost, the cost of replacing panels would be insane.
Instead of covering parking lots with bullshit like this (if it even was efficient), why not just cover some other land that's not already covered in cars?
shitty idea, I don't see any reason to use this instead of normal solar farms
>>43207678
Or why not build a roof structure over the parking lot?
>keep cars cooler
>can angle the solar panels to face the sun
>they don't get parked on
>>43207724
dynamic lane changing, ice/snow removal
>>43207790
1: Not very useful, uses significant amount power
2: Would be useful, uses fucktons of power
>>43202724
SOLAR
FREAKIN
ROADWAYS
>>43207840
Agreed on both counts.
>>43207724
it'd be cool on my driveway so i didn't have to shovel snow
i think there's probably a better and cheaper solution for that though
If you think about for more than two seconds you realize how FUCKING STUPID it is.
Yea, I'm sure these glass panels will be able to sustain hundreds of cars driving over them for 18 years.
Note that they've only driven a tractor on these panels. Sound impressive?
Not really. Roads need to be able to support the weight of hundreds of cars and they need to have good traction.
Also, how the FUCK do they think they're going to transfer the energy harvested from the roads to an electrical plant?
All small details, but important ones nonetheless. Fun fact, the cost to put just the LED's into these pieces of shit (assuming that they replace every single paved road with their shitty solar roadways like they claim they want to), the cost is in the billions.
TL;DR: This is all bullshit.
Well I'm not a negative faggot that doesn't read the FAQs that answers some of these posts
But ever since I've learned about Solar Roadways, I've learned about that Japan Orbital Solar Farm so I'm more interested in that now
And LFTRs of course ;^)
>>43208345
Geothermal is probably the cheapest and easiest solution for a heated driveway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_heat_pump
>>43202724
Pipiest of pipe dreams.
>>43202781
BUT WHO WILL BUILD
MUH ROAAADS
>>43202724
How are they suppose to work properly with cars on them blocking the sunlight
>>43203380
>Solar panels are best used in locations without access to grid power, or in ultra low energy requirement applications.
Photovoltaics are best used close to the point of load. Right now, with storage being what it is, it makes sense to have the grid available as a buffer when you can. If you have for instance an office, or some sort of industrial site with the roof space for PV and some kind of load that's active during the day (like when people are in and working), it can be a great complement. PV (concentrated solar thermal is another story) has a big advantage in that it can be scaled down easily in this respect.
Now, we do need better grid storage, if even to attach it to coal/nuclear/whatever. Or better yet, ones that could be distributed all around closer to the points of load. This makes the grid more resilient, and evens out demand.
Frankly, I wish there was more research into large-scale storage than into eeking out an extra 1% efficiency in PV.
I think this is probably bullshit, but I kind of want to see them try. I mean, just to see how much it fails, or if by some chance it kind of works. I'm not going to give them any money, but I'll keep an eye on it.
>>43203705
>>RESIDENTIAL
That graph is for residential customers only.
Of course it peaks in the early evening.
I'm talking the ENTIRE grid, which peaks mid-day.
