Now all of you faggots have no excuses.
Even your hero has repeatedly told you to give up on estrogen replacement therapy (aka meat consumption).
Now try as hard as you can to convince yourself that the cancer inducing dead body you eat everyday could have some kind of benefit to you. It won't
>>37765121
shoo shoo gains goblin
Arnold isn't my hero. Why are vegans so obsessed with turning other people vegan and people complain about Christians
>>37765121
arnold is, and always has been a gainz goblin.
1) he admits to giving poor advice to aspiring bodybuilders in "pumping iron"
2)he would mindfuck the competition before shows
3)he'd exaggerate side effects of juicing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsHLbZyA2Uk
4)he tells people not to eat meat, even though he said his one regret from his competition days was not eating enough meat.
>>37765150
We get mocked constantly and desu when I see other confirms of the now scientific fact that you're going to die of a heartattack I can't help but feel better in letting you know it
>>37765178
He spoke clearly. It's not mandatory to get cancer in order to be strong
>>37765202
If only those were real facts, not some biased bullshit or selectively choosing whatever fits your agenda.
>>37765233
>selectively choosing among thousands of confirmed and reliable scientific research all showing how bad for your health animal products are
Try harder
>>37765202
>I'm oh so concerned about the well being of animals.
>I take joy in imagining the misery of other people.
And that's why vegans are such hypocrites and species-cucks.
Eating bland as fuck prolongs life? Debatable, but maybe.
Booze and cigarettes kill definitely.
Thinking too much and working too much cause oxidative stress.
Anything that makes your heart beat faster causes oxidative stress.
Exercise beyond a very low level leads you to an early grave because of oxidative stress.
Having multiple sex partners is linked to shortened life spans.
In short: life kills you. So fucking what?
>>37765326
So I guess i'll live my 70years of existence way better than all of you fuckers with clogged arteries will.
Plus your argument makes no fucking sense.
"You could die tomorrow run over by a truck out of your house, that's why I see no problem in clogging up my arteries and filling my self with cholesterol and estrogens"
On a personal side note, although It sickens me the idea of eating a dead body, I don't feel that much empathy for the animals.
But I do care about what I put in my mouth and what effect does it have on my health
>>37765202
>We get mocked constantly
You cut out 2/3 of what we evolved to eat from your diet, of course we'll mock you. I'd mock someone who refuses to breathe air because it causes too many free radicals too.
>inb4 we totally didn't evolve to eat meat, that's jew propaganda from meat industry lobbyists
>>37765202
>muh heart attacks
French fries are vegan. Potato chips are vegan. White bread and Skippy peanut butter are vegan.
You retards are removing an entire part of a humans healthy nutrition profile just because you think it's a magic pill for ending horrid eating habits.
Shoo shoo mr skeltal
>>37765380
Life expectancy is already over 70 years for normal people, what does going vegan do for you, lad?
>>37765121
Vegetarian master race here
>>37765380
lmao, I'd rather die with a glorious body at 50 and be remembered as great, than rot away for several decades.
>>37765427
>your intestines are 3 times longer proportionally to any truly carnivore species
>whatever you call canines won't help you on ripping off the flesh of a living deer
>your body doesn't have the right enzymes to digest meat
>every great civilization with more than 100 people in it was based on pure agricolture and not hunting
>evolved to eat meat
Try harder phaggot
>>37765121
>Now try as hard as you can to convince yourself that the cancer inducing dead body you eat everyday could have some kind of benefit to you. It won't
maybe it won't. but at least i'm not a vegan pussy
>>37765455
cuck
>>37765380
Let's see what you look like. I want a good laugh.
>>37765233
>>37765326
>>37765427
>>37765435
The issue is the environment
Animal agriculture causes more greenhouse pollution than ALL forms of transportation combined
As an educated vegetarian and not a dumb meat eater I could drive a hummer and make less of an impact that you gobshits
>>37765471
If pic related is a glorious body to you there's no need to cut those 20 years of life
Post pictures that blow meat eating subhumans the fuck out
>>37765473
>your intestines are 3 times longer proportionally to any truly carnivore species
>carnivore
Ah, classical vegan retardation. Nobody in the history of mankind has ever said humans are carnivores, moron. We're omnivores, and it's a scientific fact that we've been eating meat since the homo habillis days millions of years ago. And since your brought up civilizations, it's well known that nomadic peoples who ate mostly meat and dairy were taller and stronger than the average peasants. The only reason that people sustained themselves on agriculture is because it's easier and cheaper to grow plants than to raise livestock. It was impossible to produce so much meat in those times.
Faggot.
>>37765501
Sure it does
>>37765476
As a golden carnivore master race, also remember to keep a lot of money into your bank account.
Jews won't ask you just few hundred dollars for those chemotherapeutic agents ;)
>>37765121
I've actually thought about becoming vegan for health benefits. The biggest thing stopping me is people like you. I don't want to be associated with you whiny faggots. You'd probably convert more people by shutting the fuck up
>>37765501
>>37765523
Nobody cares, we'll be dead by the time the environment is fucked.
>>37765529
Actually certain Inuit tribes are carnivorous
Argument = invalid
>>37765538
This is why the athiesm meme never caught on. Even though religion fags are retards, I think most people would rather be retards then associated with fedoras.
>>37765530
No, you don't understand. Cow farts really do pollute the air more than factories and billions of automobiles.
Vegans don't actually care about animals, they only care about themselves and how it makes them "a better person" for forgoing and animal products.
The worst part is they think it's not obvious, its like virgin smell to women, it's fucking blatant.
>>37765553
That's why agnosticism is master race.
>>37765544
Well, you sure proved me wrong. I guess we should stop eating plants now.
>>37765558
I guess we'd better eat them then!
>>37765455
>tripfag
>vegetarian
>cuck
Holy shit, humanity truly is lost
>>37765558
The United Nations seems to think so
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?newsID=20772#.V3bXTlI8LCQ
But do t worry Big Oil, the meat industry, and Pastor Cleetus told you there's nothing to worry about
>>37765586
>unironically citing the UN
You might as well use a tabloid as your source.
>>37765529
What is a fucking omnivore? Nature doesn't know "omnivores" since every species is designed to eat in a certain way. If some caveman thousands of years ago needed to kill a bunch of cows not to die of starvation doesn't make you an omnivore, you're naturally inclined and designed to eat fruits and vegetables.
They were taller because of dairy consumption, which is also the most unnatural thing to do now that you're bringing up what's natural or not to the table.
Also meat doesn't make you any stronger than what you can achieve with a plant based diet you illitterate scumbag
>>37765586
>Cars = all transpertation
what is it like being retarded?
>>37765608
>wwwaaaaahhhh why doesn't anyone listen to me!
>stop eating meat we weren't meant to waaaaahhhhhh
God damn. your whining makes me want to eat a steak out of spite you're killing your own shitty movement.
>>37765601
Prove the study wrong then
>>37765617
Yes animal agriculture does more damage than ALL transportation combined
>>37765631
Be sure to cook it well, those jews will give you the bill later on in your life
>>37765608
>Nature doesn't know "omnivores" since every species is designed to eat in a certain way.
>what are chickens
>what are pigs
>what are dogs
>what are bears
To put it simply, they're animals that have the capability to obtain energy and nutrients from materials originating from plant and animal origin. I hope you were just trolling and you're not actually this retarded.
Now fuck off, you ignorant shitter.
>>37765608
>Also meat doesn't make you any stronger than what you can achieve with a plant based diet
Then why is every vegan a 120lb weakling?
>>37765586
Cow farts are methane, retard. Just because they have a higher index for contributing to the greenhouse effect doesn't mean our modern infrastructure is the main cause.
The environment's fucked. If we worked our asses off 20 years ago to switch to solar, we MIGHT have had the technology to mitigate global warming.
Eating chickpeas and rice is not going to make you a fucking ecowarrior.
>>37765709
*doesn't mean modern infrastructure isn't the mane cause
Damn phone
>>37765686
Quick hint: many people can manage to live on fruits alone. How many do you know that can feel well and live long by just eating bodies?
it means that we're BY DESIGN created to eat a plant based diet.
The omnivore argument makes no sense.
>>37765501
lol that pie chart
You do understand that posting factually false information damages your credibility, right?
>>37765738
And yet vegans need to take supplements to replace the meat, we need both meat and plants to live
>>37765704
then why you don't do a quick fucking google search?
>>37765738
> How many do you know that can feel well and live long by just eating bodies?
The Inuit can, faggot. It's almost like we can eat both meat and plants BECAUSE WE'RE OMNIVORES.
Jesus Christ, and you wonder why people mock you.
Plant based protein won't get the world off of meat. No matter how much veggies yell at others to stop eating meat won't do shit. What will get our civilization to rid itself of animal protein is lab grown meat. We're a few years away from that entering the market at a decent price, and in 10 years it'll be even cheaper than meat itself. No animals harmed while drastically reducing carbon emissions. Humanity needs a new source of protein.... not plant based protein.
>>37765617
>...forestry and other land use
Basically all kids of other shit that has NOTHING to do with meat producing agriculture...
>>37765763
do you think your b12 intake is natural and that animals are not fed with lab made b12 (and estrogen, and antibiotics, and the list goes on..)?
Are we going to make a list of all the chemical shit that meat industry needs to put in your plate to make you able to eat a piece of rotten body?
Try harder
>>37765644
did you take your meds this morning?
The chart reads "Agriculture, Forestry and other land use" NOT Animal Agriculture
>>37765738
>B12
Currently trying to eat vegetarian. Giving it an honest go for 2 weeks just to see hoe i feel with. Fucking forgot the 4th of July is a few days off ... probably will cheat that day in honour of USA and george washington.
>>37765783
"they consume this type of diet because a mostly meat diet is "effective in keeping the body warm, making the body strong, keeping the body fit, and even making that body healthy"
>>37765769
not him but show me a natty vegan bodybuilder who doesnt look like a fucking bicycle and is vegan for a very long amount of time
yeah, didnt think so, you can fuck off now
>>37765783
and by the way their diet is not exclusively made of meat
>>37765800
I only eat grass feed beef from my cousins herd on the plains of Romanija. So by your logic I'm dead from B12 deficiency. Oh wait, there seems to be a faint pulse.
>Big food is poisoning meat.
They're also poisoning fruits and vegetables. That's why you don't become a poor-fag and eat quality foods.
>>37765854
They eat mostly fish, seal, walrus and whale meat. There aren't a lot of fruits and veggies in the Arctic.
>>37765829
Torre Washington was raised vegan. There's even bigger bodybuilders out there who are plant based
It can be incredibly difficult for a vegan to ingest a good amount of protein via plant based proteins. Almonds are expensive as fuck, along with most nuts. Tofu can be okay if made properly.
But lemme ask you vegans, if the world suddenly stopped eating meat and relied upon soy and other plants... would it honestly solve climate change? You'll tackle animal cruelty which is good, but agriculture itself is still a fucked up solution considering we continually wipe out an entire plot of land every year preventing animals to thrive there.
>>37765121
>a celebrity is promoting a certain opinion for a financial return
>I'm supposed to mindlessly follow their suggestion while disregarding millions of years and evolution
I bet you would put your cat on a broccoli diet too
>>37765859
>>Big food is poisoning meat.
>They're also poisoning fruits and vegetables.
That's what no one want to EVER address, people almost never question where or how their food is made. They assume meat is bad because generic corporate owned meat tampers with the meat which fucks up our bodies. But they'll just ignore that and think meat is unhealthy.
>>37765875
and they're all on roids, so that proves nothing
>>37765872
which is why their life expectancy is shit
>>37765892
KEK
>>37765892
>this is the intelligence of the average vegan
>>37765473
>your body doesn't have the right enzymes to digest meat
This is bait right?
>>37765904
/thread
All vegans are mentally ill.
>>37765738
Ok, are you in the slightest intellectually curious about what we are "designed" to eat. You know our teeth are built and a certain way, right? And you know they are not very efficient at processing large quantities of plants...just like our digestive tract. I mean, this is stuff you can get off Wikipedia and there is no debate among the scientific community that homo sapiens are omnivores.
I mean, if you disagree with the above at least acknowledge that most scientists disagree with you...
>>37765882
The entire world going vegan overnight would not solve climate change overnight. Nothing will solve climate change overnight. But it would be a massive leap in the right direction.
My protein intake over the last 3 days: 86mg, 72mg, 91mg. I don't think about protein much at all. That's way higher than I even need. I didn't eat any nuts, just a lot of fruits, veggies, whole grains, and beans. What's "incredibly difficult" about getting protein on a vegan diet? All food has protein.
>>37765921
Oh right I forgot your heroes are all fullnattybrah
There's really no point in arguing with such high cholesterol levels
>>37765121
mr. skeltal is on the LOOSE. call for his fucking necromantic master so he can fuck off.
>>37765892
Onli vegetables would think like this
>>37765904
>a celebrity is promoting a certain scientific FACT very well proven by thousands of studies for a financial return
fix'd for ya
>>37765929
Yeah, that's the reason, not becuase they're ice indians living a harsh life in the fucking arctic devoid of modern luxuries such as hygiene standards and medicine.
Fucking retard.
>>37765954
>My protein intake: 86mg, 72mg, 91mg
>That's way higher than I even need
Hahahahahahahahaaaaaa, top kek mate.
>Vegan namefag confirmed for mosquito.
>>37765892
LOL imagine the bitch literally spits out after a bj, looks up and says "I'm vegan..."
>>37765954
So are you getting most of your protein from quinoa and beans? How much are you eating to acquire the right amount of daily protein intake?
>>37765955
The point, my mentally challanged friend, was that a natty vegan bodybuilder is not going to be able to put on the same amount of muscle mass as a normal bodybuilder. That all goes out the window once dat dere celltech gets involved.
>>37765954
>eats 30grams of protein per year.
>healthy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30gEiweaAVQ
>>37765954
>My protein intake over the last 3 days: 86mg, 72mg, 91mg.
>That's way higher than I even need.
And next you're gonna tell us you're not dyel, right?
>>37765990
I'm 5'4" and female, how much fucking protein do you reaaallly think I need? About half what I'm eating, lol.
>>37766008
Ah, I was wondering you when you and your 3 hours vegan shill videos would show up.
>>37765121
James Cameron mentioned in the video to either stop eating meat or at the very least reduce eating meat. I say the former is reasonable, i've been trying to integrate tofu slowly into my diet a few times a week so that's a start.
>>37765121
I'm pretty sure this is in relation to a PSA I saw. Apparently cooking meat too hot can lead to certain compounds being present that can hurt you. The PSA just said not to cook your meat well done and to sort of pre-heat it for a few minutes. Some Google searching suggests it raises the risk of cancer.
>>37765953
Again, go on and hunt a living deer and rip it's flesh off with your teeth.
Then try to eat an apple.
Based on your performance on both tasks we'll judge wheter you're closer to being a carnivore or a true herbivore.
PS: it's true that we're more inclined on fruits than not on plants, this doesn't justify you from fucking your entire digestive tract with cancer inducing dead bodies
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE VEGANS GET THE FUCK OUT NOW!
>>37766020
>I'm female,
No wonder you fell for a meme diet.
>>37765998
I haven't eaten quinoa in ages, but thanks for reminding me, it's good. I eat a lot of brown rice and beans. ALL FOOD HAS PROTEIN THOUGH. It all adds up. I eat lots of greens too, they have more protein than you'd think. There's no one food or group of foods I think "yeah gotta get my protein gonna eat this," protein is just in literally everything.
>>37766025
It's not even vegan...the conclusion of the study is to moderate meat consumption.
>>37766008
>High meat consumption in US is positively corelated with heart disease.
>High meat consumption in Senegal is positively corelated with longer life-spans.
Now think about that for a moment and come up with an excuse for the second fact, I'm curious.
>>37766040
post body trip cuck
>>37766000
google Jon Venus. He litterally exploded on a vegan diet, and we shouldn't argue that his physique is attainable naturally given enough 'genetics'
>>37766033
>humans never hunted animals
>humans never ate meat before fire and cooking were discovered
this is the intelligence of the average vegan, ladies and gentlemen
>>37766020
Still not getting it you fucking idiot?
mg = miligram
1mg = 0.001grams
So much for your scientific literacy.
>>37766040
>protein is just in literally everything.
That doesn't help someone who's trying to build muscle, just imagine how many green beans it would take to equal a chicken breast in protein.
>>37766057
I hope you're not trying to convince anyone here that this is natty.
>>37766033
Ok. So when I kill the deer and rip its flesh out with my teeth, which I am anatomically capable of doing, how much calories do I get from the deer?
How many calories do I get from the apple?
In fact, if I lived 12,000 years ago, this is exactly what I would be doing. If there were no deer I would eat apples, if I had no apples I would eat deer. If both were available I would eat both.
See where I am going with this? There is allot of information on this kind of stuff I think you would actually be interested.
>>37766061
Have you already ate the deer? I haven't seen you doing so.
Which proves i'm right, you're not able to run and kill a deer by ripping it's flesh off with your carnivorous teeth
>>37766106
>What are tools
Even fucking chimps use spears, that humans can't kill a deer with our teeth is irrelevant as your tiny trap cock.
>>37766093
You know, I think a lion would have a much easier time eating an apple than chasing and bringing down a buffalo. Less risky too. Lions are clearly not meant to eat meat.
>>37766033
>Again, go on and hunt a living deer and rip it's flesh off with your teeth.
Go try eating an uncracked coconut with your teeth.
HURRRRR I guess that means we're not designed to eat coconuts. Do you get it now? We learned to cook the meat for easier consumption, same way we developed tools to eat coconuts.
>>37766106
Are you fucking retarded? Have you ever heard of endurance hunting? It's still practiced in certain parts of Africa. They literally run down animals and kill them.
>>37766135
We can't eat raw potatoes, I guess we weren't meant to eat potatoes either.
That's vegan logic for you.
>>37766065
fair point, I obviously meant grams.
>>37766093
>anatomically capable
I guess we can really end it here sir, the clogged arteries are making you unable to think straight.
And by the way in 2016 there's no need to eat what you're not supposed to (a deer, for example) there's no survival in the equation and you're not justified from filling yourself with carcinogens.
I do agree that If you were starving a deer could be a temporary solution, but it doesn't make you a carnivore by any mean
>>37766164
>and by the way it's THE CURRENT YEAR so stop eating what your ancestors did for millions of years and grow a tofu vagina like me
Who cares if I have an heart attack? Thats not me.
>>37766125
Yes, it would take less energy for the lion to eat an apple, but his teeth and digestion system were not built to process apples very efficiently. If this hypothetical lion were to continue eating apples due to fear of deer, he would die.
Simple enough, right...
>>37766164
>carnivore
There's that word again. I don't think you realize that everyone here is saying that we're omnivores, not carnivores.
>>37766125
But they don't. Because none of them we're supposed to.
And I guess you're not hunting deers. Are you a lazy ass or maybe, JUST MAYBE that's not what you're supposed to do?
>>37766196
Yes, and our digestion system can handle both meat and plants. You see where I'm going with this?
>>37766217
Well, I don't hunt deer because of I've got livestock on my grandparents' farm. Why would I hunt them if I can just raise them and slaughter them there?
Your entire argument is nonsense. Nobody hunts anymore because meat is readily available everywhere now. We've evolved past hunting.
>>37766209
There's countless of studies which proves that we're far better off without animal products. The fact that you can clog your intestine and shit a dead body doesn't make you an omnivore either.
>>37766225
And our brains are capable of complex reasoning. Abstaining from animal products is environmentally sustainable and better for human health. We live in a world with over 7 billion people. What worked for us thousands of years ago cannot be expected to work the same on a much larger scale.
>meat eating retards can't come up with a proper counter argument to how they're destroying the ozone layer
Lmao
>>37766164
My arteries are is pretty good shape based on my last blood test.
If the argument has shifted away from evolutionary biology and anthropology to animal ethics...you caught me by surprise. I'm not really interested in stuff like that.
Also, eating deer and apples does not make humans carnivores, physiology is that of omnivores as I said before.
>>37766225
lions dont get atherosclerosis
some meat every now and then is fine but the average american consumes a shit ton of meat, srs
>>37766249
But I assume you're still not evolved to fucking eat it if it causes you any kind of chronic disease goddamit
>>37765121
Who gives a fuck? Meat is delicious.
>>37766259
>Worry about the environment
>Use electricity shitposting on 4chan
>Human health
Isn't the absolute worst thing for the planet, environmentally speaking, longer living humans?
And the longest living populations are Japan & Sweden. They aren't vegan.
>>37766275
>Who gives a fuck? Meat is delicious.
>>37766271
Holy shit, you nigger, We evolved to eat meat before we were even human. Homo Habillis started eating meat millions of years ago and their size and brains grew as a result. This is a scientific fact. Now, fuck off already. Nobody listens to your hippie vagina bullshit.
>>37766267
You should read the news once in a while cuck
>>37766288
But till the point we live in it, we should do our best to fuck it up as soon as possible right babe?
>>37766275
It can also kill you, if you eat it in the same form and quantity as most of the people in the western world. But hey, who gives a shit. If you feel fine at whatever 20-something age you are now, I'm sure you'll feel just as good after your first bypass surgery in your 50's.
>>37766294
I'm not sure it had the same effect on you, and it shows with your argument
>>37766259
So what? If I cared about the environment I wouldn't drive a car either.
>>37766310
>can't come up with a counter-argument
>resort to ad hominem
like clockwork
>>37766275
>some men just want to watch the world burn XD
>>37766300
You sound upset that you're too paranoid about what might happen in the distant future to enjoy a good steak.
>>37766299
has anyone really been far as decided?
>>37766298
No shit but green house gases are still growing you fool
>>37766312
You're still completely bypassing the health benefits of a vegetarian/vegan diet
>>37766320
Got nothing to do with whatever it is you're babbling about and everything with enjoying the taste of a finely cooked piece of meat.
>>37766321
I wouldn't enjoy a steak though. The environment isn't my only reason for being vegan, it's just the one that I was talking about in that post. Killing a cow doesn't sit right with me when I can enjoy thousands of other plant foods just as much.
>>37766335
>Destroying the OZONE
>Ozone is healing
>But greenhouse gasses!!!
you need some DHA bra
>>37766294
Neurons runs on fucking glucose, not meat. And by the way it's cooked food that gave us a bigger brain, not dead bodies
"Peter Ungar, distinguished professor and chair of anthropology at University of Arkansas, who was recently named a fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, what his take was on the role of meat eating versus carbs in human brain evolution. He wrote back,
Even the staunchest meat advocates recognize that protein and fat cannot power the brain – and we lose much of our gluconeogenesis capabilities at weaning. The argument is that meat eating provided the calories needed to power other parts of the body, freeing available carbohydrates to focus on the brain… Even in that case, it’s carbs, not meat that powers the brain"
>>37766336
There aren't any. Moderate meat and dairy consumption + veggies + physical activity is the optimal health balance.
>>37766348
Fair enough. Nobody is saying that you have to eat meat. We're just saying that you shouldn't give a fuck if other people do.
>>37766342
>le fuck le world
>I'm 16 now mom!
>who gives le fuck XD
>>37766336
1) Citations are required for benefits of vegetarian diet over a diet that incorporates meat.
2) Citations are required for benefits of vegan diet over a diet that incorporates meat.
>>37766335
Fuck off you twink faggot
>>37766267
Congratulations you're the most obvious namefag troll on this board. Now turn off your computer and don't buy a new one ever. Because that has more of an effect on the ozone layer than eating meat.
>>37766319
gently redirected to >>37766365
>>37766354
Stripping ozone away isn't the only cause of global warming you retard
>>37766369
We should when your poisoning the planet and driving up temperatures
>>37766370
>>37766320
>/pol/ shill calling other people edgy.
>>37766380
Nope, animal agriculture has the most impact
>>37766365
>protein and fat cannot power the brain
>what are ketones
Seriously, can at least try to research such basic shit? And he goes on to say: " The argument is that meat eating provided the calories needed to power other parts of the body, freeing available carbohydrates to focus on the brain". Basically he's in agreement meat was crucial in developing the human brain. We evolved as omnivores, and this is a scientific fact. No scientist will ever deny this.
>>37766390
>maybe if you ate some meat you'd grow some fucking shoulders.
>>37766369
Considering that the way other people eat affects the environment we all share, I give a fuck and should give a fuck.
>>37766397
>/pol/
>shilling for vegans
no, just no
>>37766397
Reddit go home
>>37766406
Yeah, because you get to decide on that particular facet of reality.
>>37766426
>You literally made a "kill all muslims and browns" thread a week ago. With some anime faggotry of course.
>>37766434
>livin in this amount of denial
Meatfags everyone
>>37766422
nigga you can't argue with people like this
if you look at the cold hard facts (not discussing animal cruelty cause they dont give a fuck) the thing that's left is the environment
and they don't give a fuck about that either
that's how every discussion is settled
>meat eaters win again!
>>37766452
>implying I said kill all Browns
>your just assuming all Muslims = all Browns
Fucking racist
>>37766372
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4315380/ picking up the first I found, there's many out there. This one specifically goes in depth on how to reverse coronary heart disease with a plant based diet, but just focus on the first sentence while you're at it.
Again, there's many scientific proof of the health benefits of a meatless diet, and there's no need to fill you up with ncbi links
>>37766434
Tomato didn't decide shit. Even the EPA agrees on that fact, along with numerous other environmental protection agencies.
http://www.new-harvest.org/the_world_s_leading_driver_of_climate_change_animal_agriculture
That's the most concise source I could find, but there's no shortage of other studies/writers if you happen to dislike that guy.
>>37766466
>vegan
>/pol/tard edgelord
>weaboo
>namefag
>>37766419
>that face
It's like you have a bucket list on being human scum.
>>37766500
I said vegetarian not vegan you dunce
>>37766515
>I'm not as retarded as those other retards
>>37766523
There's literally nothing wrong with being a vegetarian
FYI: The Spartan men never ate meat as they believed it made them fat, slow and horny.
>>37766515
Sorry.
>vegetarian
>/pol/tard edgelord
>weaboo
>namefag
>that face
+
>spineless fence-sitter.
>>37766536
>Citation needed
>>37766496
Look man, we already supplied several sources of information for emissions. Please read the entire thread before you post.
>>37766547
>fence sitter
I'm pretty solid on what side I stand on all those issues actually
>>37766533
you're still giving your money to industries that are unethical and cruel (cows getting raped, veal slaughtered, baby chicks ground up)
>>37765121
If no meat and no dairy, where should I get my protein from? Nuts have too many calories per gram of protein...
>>37766409
>Even in that case, it’s carbs, not meat that powers the brain
I mean are you able to read and understand sentences?
>>37766567
grains, soy, tofu, legumes, green vegetables, beans, lentils, meat replacement produts, wheat, pasta, rice... it's simpler than you would think friend
>>37766567
You get your protein from food. All food has protein, and humans actually require about 5% protein according to the World Health Organization. Whole plant food diets average 10-15% protein even without the addition of beans. You'll get enough protein as long as you eat enough food.
>>37765738
>design
We weren't designed tho
>>37766472
This is a meta analysis. Not a peer reviewed study. You can just take 30 seconds and read the abstract. This is a hypothesis about potential benefits of switching to a plant based diet.
You can't just throw articles from random journals from which you have only read the title...
>>37766589
Yes but is it possible to get enough protein from a vegetarian diet to actually make any real gains?
>>37766496
Have some decency and read the thread. That shit has been debunked.
If you care so much about the ozone layer you'd be much better off not buying electronics, walking or cycling everywhere. Although cycling/walking would cause you to consume more food - and even vegetable farming causes pollution. There is no way in hell we can feed enough people without mining for and refining artificial fertilizer - especially if we got rid of all the manure producing animals.
>>37766562
Pretty solid on raising animals and thus incurring all the environmental downsides of that while letting them die and rot away (thus causing methane emissions) instead of eating them, and then latter making up the deficit with industrially grown plants which causes even more pollution - because that is literally the most stupid course of action if you care so much about the environment
>>37766606
Yes. This guy explains it better than I can, his whole channel is useful imo. In this video he explains exactly what you're asking:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zkV3Fl5AAQ
>>37766606
no doubt about it. I hope you are just ignorant and not trolling - there are many vegan athletes out there who built muscle and thrive on a plant based diet,
examples:
- Jon Venus
- Torre Washington
- Nimai Delgado
- The 300 lbs vegan, David Carter
- Nate Diaz
... list goes on
>>37766409
>>37766294
'Mark Thomas, an evolutionary geneticist at University College London says that at that point, human populations started to consume more carbs-rich foods and developed the use of fire. Those two improvements "were critical to the expansion of the brain."'
>>37765121
Arnie is a fucking pinhead, ironic for him to be giving health advice, no?
>>37766629
Idiots banging keyboards on /fit/ because the studies don't match their preconceptions isn't what I'd call "debunked." I have read the thread, now why don't you have some decency and read some of the science?
>>37766629
>Have some decency and read the thread. That shit has been debunked.
>If you care so much about the ozone layer you'd be much better off not buying electronics, walking or cycling everywhere. Although cycling/walking would cause you to consume more food - and even vegetable farming causes pollution. There is no way in hell we can feed enough people without mining for and refining artificial fertilizer - especially if we got rid of all the manure producing animals.
Meat eaters are this retarded lmao!
>>37766669
>I have no counter so I'll just insult you and pretend that you're so obviously wrong it requires no comment.
>>37766654
https://www3.epa.gov/climatechange/ghgemissions/sources/agriculture.html
Agriculture, is the primary (but far from the only) source of methane emissions, meat production is not the only cause of methane emissions in agriculture. Methane make up less than 30% of greenhouse gasses.
When you crunch the numbers and account for the effects of increased demand for artificial feritilizers and increased amount of plant matter rotting on landfills- then completely eliminating meat prodution would cause a 5% decrease in global warming. You can achieve more by convincing faggots to not buy a new phone every year.
>>37766602
This is peer-reviewed review article that summarizes the studies that have looked at the health effects of a vegan diet http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/89/5/1627S.long
This one has many peer-reviewed studies that support its conclusions, notice also that it comes from the National institute of health
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662288/
There's too many research honestly that confirms how a plant based diet is going to give you many health benefits, I really don't get how you all find the bravery to rebut those facts
>>37766548
It is recorded in "Life Of Lycurgus" written by Plutarch. Lycurgus forced a vegetarian regime on Spartan men, forbade all meat/alcohol, sex with their wives like once per year, they have to live separately and no masturbation.
The Jews don't want you to know so you won't find it in Wikipedia. You'll have to dig up the original sources.
https://books.google.com/books?id=B5ojAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA181&lpg=PA181&dq=Lycurgus+Plutarch+%22vegetarian%22+Sparta&source=bl&ots=VGAYY0AdhF&sig=wy_DYH5tQqhOW-AL6GkbLyl5zgU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjR__32rNPNAhUGSiYKHaZqDbgQ6AEIHjAA#v=onepage&q=Lycurgus%20Plutarch%20%22vegetarian%22%20Sparta&f=false
>>37766873
>An omnivorous diet is not as rich in magnesium, potassium, vitamins C and E and fiber as a vegan diet.
So it sucks.
>A vegan diet is dangerously deficient in B12, vitamin D, omega-3 fats and calcium.
No biggie, we can supplement around that.
>An unsupplemented omnivorous diet is lacking a couple things that help better health.
>An unsupplement vegan diet will kill you.
That study is comparing the ideal supplemented vegan diet to the diet of an average American.
>I really don't get how you all find the bravery to rebut those facts.
Because a lot of the touted benefits are carefully cherry-picked. You can gain most of the health benefits cited by eating omnivorously but choosing healthier, eating less and supplementing your food (no need to go as all out as vegans have to in order not to die.)
>>37765763
you do know animals are supplemented with b12 right? jesus you are fucking dumb.
>>37766873
A nice quote from the study:
>To date, epidemiologic studies have not provided convincing evidence that a vegan diet provides significant protection against cancer. Although plant foods contain many chemopreventive factors, most of the research data comes from cellular biochemical studies.
And even that assumes that omnivores can't and don't consume legumes, onions and all the other foods that help prevent cancer.
>>37767125
B12 deficiency was never a problem with civilizations that ate meat regularly. Yet it ws epidemic in any culture that was forced to abstain from meat.
>>37767056
Stay out of your fucking basement and you'll get plenty of vitamin D
Plus the b12 vitamin you're getting comes from supplements, which are given to the animals in livestocks and that you later on absorb from them
Don't forget vitamin b12 is produced also by your body alone if you have a healthy intestinal bacterial flora, and that b12 is found in every unwashed fruit and vegetable.
We overwash our food in 2016, this causes the loss of b12 that you get from supplements absorbed from a dead body
>>37766772
Because all your points are retarded you're claiming electronics are worse with no evidence
>>37767182
In which civilization was B12 deficiency epidemic? I know deficiencies are common in times of famine and war, but for those of us in the first world that's not much of a problem these days. A daily multi or B vitamin containing 12 is quite cheap and accessible for most people.
>>37767157
Are you looking for researches which shows how meat could induce cancer?
Are you that retarded?
I mean it also became common sense nowadays that people makes jokes about it
>>37767182
Then why there's a evergrowing amount of "omnivores" which are b12 deficient?
>>37767226
It is well known anyways that red meat (pork, beef, lamb) causes cancer. Eat that shit in limit.
People keep talking about how bad meat is, yet they NEVER address the trend of farmers spraying their crops with horrible pesticides that require people to wear protective suits to handle the toxic chemicals... and they're spraying this on your food. The whole system is fucked no matter which angle you approach it.
>>37767247
Which proves that vegan diets have lower cancer incidence by fucking logic alone. And researches confirms it
>>37767250
Veggies can be unhealthy too, ofc, depending on how they're grown.
Organic produce isn't always much better either. There are so many loopholes within the "organic" designation, it's ridiculous. We spray feed grain for livestock with the same shit, so we don't exactly avoid it by eating diets high in animal protein.
>>37767250
To be honest I think that gmos or not a lettuce is far healtier than a rotten body filled with chemicals pre and post mortem
>>37767250
>le GMOs are maymay
Full fucking retard
I bet your a Yurocuck
>>37767208
>All your points are retarded.
I supply evidence from reputable sources.
>YOU ARE AN IDIOT!
But I'll bite one more time:
http://www.triplepundit.com/2010/11/study-small-device-footprints-can-rival-those-of-giant-machines/
https://www.eia.gov/consumption/residential/reports/2009/electronics.cfm
https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/rare-earth-mining-china-social-environmental-costs
http://ec.europa.eu/environment/integration/research/newsalert/pdf/302na5_en.pdf
Cliffs notes:
>Making new electronics requires mining for lots of rare metals.
>It requires making plastics, which requires drilling for oil and making toxic chemicals.
>It incurs transportation, which is a major contributor to greenhouse emissions.
>All these processes consume large quantities of electricity. The production of which is the single largest contributor to greenhouse emissions.
>>37767222
>In which civilization was B12 deficiency epidemic? I know deficiencies are common in times of famine and war...
Do you know the difference between epidemic and chronic?
>Yet it was epidemic in any culture that was forced to abstain from meat.
>I know deficiencies are common in times of famine and war...
>forced to abstain
>common in times of famine and war
So you know what I'm talking about - but you don't. Crank those brain-cells. I know a lack of omega-3 and B12 makes it hard, but at least try.
During the Bosnian war we ate plenty of vegetables but were chronically sick. Whenever we could get our hands on some meat health improved significantly.
You're flat out lying about that whole business: Veganism causes B12 deficiency without supplementation, period. B12 deficiency causes death. People who eat meat might get B12 deficiency due to various drugs or because of intestinal issues but that is a fraction of omnivores, while every vegan without supplementation will get it.
http://www.bmj.com/content/349/bmj.g5226
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB12-HealthProfessional/#h5
>>37767326
Fucking YOU are filled with chemicals... what is serotonin? dopamine? testosterone?
You need a balanced diet consisting of much vegetation and fibrous material. Dairy is unnecessary, but can be used as an aid. Some meat should be consumed for B12 (cobalamin), but you don't have to eat 200g+ of protein a day or whatever overkill facts this board touts.
Rotten body? Sniff the fucking meat. If its stanky, don't eat it. Cook your food before it rots and there won't be a thing to worry about. Fucking hell you are an emotional woman
>>37765738
Lol designed by Vegan God. He rules the realm of pussies and fags and hippy lib bitches.
>>37767326
>rotten body
>filled with chemicals
Proselytizing is really annoying regardless of the form it takes. You've all lowered my opinion of vegans.
>>37767582
Again, you're making a big thing by talking about a supplement you're taking yourself.
Most of the times animals in livestock are supplemented with b12, and there's plenty out there of fortified food which makes it very easy to compensate for that.
But in your logic I guess that not washing our food for b12 in 2016 justifies us from getting cancer by eating b12 fortified meat
>>37767974
And again and again you're making a claim which has no basis in scientific literature and is basically a vegan urban legend. That whole "meat is not a source of B12, it is artificial fortified with it" is patently retarded.
>"Animal foods, including meat, milk, and eggs, contain B12 and are essentially the exclusive source of the vitamin in the American food supply (not counting supplements or fortification)."
http://nutritionstudies.org/12-questions-answered-regarding-vitamin-b12/
If you've read any of the sources I supplied it makes absolutely no mention of that idea. Both free range and "meat farm" meat has over-and-over been proven to contain sufficient B12 without any fortification assuming a moderate meat consumption.
>not washing our food
First off, there is a reason why we wash food.
Hell, even most vegans admit that the whole "B12 from dirty produce" (which by the way is a terrible idea for most produce available) is a scam. You can get B12 from shit but you also get the bacteria that produced it. Animal sources are the only way to get B12 without also consuming dangerous bacteria besides food supplementation.
http://www.nomeatathlete.com/b12-for-vegans/
Also don't think I haven't noticed you only making counter-arguments to one claim I make while quietly dropping the ones on which you have been proven conclusively wrong.
Animals eat meat, so it can't be that bad.
>>37767974
>Prolonged deficiency of vitamin B12 leads to irreversible nervous system damage.
vegans like you really make a man think...
>>37768219
Again, it's harder NOT to supplement B12 than to supplement it. Fortified cereal (even the shit sugary kinds), fortified commercial breads, fortified drinks and the like are everywhere. B12 deficiency is a problem for raw vegans and followers of all kinds of fad diets, but not for your average person in good health living in the first world. It's ridiculous to state "don't be vegan because B12!" when the fortified plant sources of B12 outnumber the animal based sources of the exact same vitamin, and are cheaper and healthier to boot.
>>37765121
meat isnt the problem, theres just too many people. more people, more cows. more cows more greenhouse emissions. we need a good ol fashion global catastrophy
>>37765471
THAT GUY AIN'T GOT NO PRINGUS!
>>37768124
Counter arguments to fucking what? To you saying that instead of eating fortified food in b12 we should poison ourself with dairy and meat?
Do you see the logical fallacy you're getting by thinking this?
Many animals in livestock gets all kind of diseases which explaines why 70% of all antibiotics used in us alone are given to farm animals, in the same way they became unable to synthesize b12 and are therefore supplemented with it. Don't forget that the industrial process that undergoes with the production of meat denaturates and worsen it even more, eating meat in this day and age is completely retarded and your arguments makes absolutely no sense.
>>37765709
>less co2 yet temp has been higher
Really makes you think.
>>37768384
Lol
>poison
Must be why the only people who make it to 80 are vegans huh anon?
>>37768384
>Counter arguments to fucking what?
Some that he missed, by accident of course:
>There are alot of other ways, many of which more effective, to reduce greenhouse emissions than completely abandon ranching.
>Ranching is decidedly not the biggest or even one of the biggest factors in global warming.
>Vegetarianism is retarded from an environmentalist perspective.
>Comparing the diet of an average American (ie. shit) with a theoretical well balanced and heavily supplemented vegan diet is loopsided.
>Many of the carcinogenic effects of meat are due to specific industrial practices and not inherent in meat.
>Industrial produce is also increasingly pumped full of carcinogenics.
>All the health benefits of consuming specific vegetables, nuts and fruits can obviously be utilized in a omnivorous diet and are not exclusive to veganism or vegetarianism.
>The need for fortification to stave off death is a pretty big drawback in any diet.
>Many of the touted health and environmental benefits of veganism are purely theoretical and often clearly overstated.
>Trying to substitute ranching for farming is going to cause a whole host of new problems that every vegan ignores.
>poison ourself with dairy...
>meat denaturates and...
>eating meat in this day...
Again, comparing a high quality vegan diet to an omnivorous diet based heavily processed and manipulated meat and no fresh fruit and vegetables is very loop-sided.
Eating Z grade industrial sludge is retarded: eating fish is great for getting omega-3 and plenty of antioxidants, grass-fed steak is a fantastic source of protein and rich in vitamins and minerals etc.
And again on that whole B12 business: So the possibility of supplementing it means you can slash it from the list of benefits of a meat containing diet? But the possibility of eating plenty of potassium on a meat containing diet doesn't mean we can slash potassium from the list of vegan pros? And you don't get how loop-sided that is?
>>37765121
Arnold told you to play Mobile Strike™: Available on the App Store™, you have no excuse not be downloading it right now faggot
>>37768796
Sourcing B12 from plants instead of animals offers benefits beyond diet, which was my point. From a dietary standpoint, B12 deficiency isn't a huge concern for either type of diet, but animal-sourced B12 requires the consumption of a food high in saturated fat and cholesterol, and has a greater environmental impact.
>>37765121
Arnold isn't my hero. He's also notorious for giving shit advice and being a general gains goblin
>>37768931
Hahahaha 2016 and you still think dietary fat and cholesterol has a causation link to heart disease when in fact in never did and only a handful of conflicting studies showed even a correlation.
>>37768931
>B12 from plants
No such thing. But fine, let's put that on hold.
>requires the consumption of a food high in saturated fat and cholesterol, and has a greater environmental impact.
If you actually belonged on this board you'd know how fucking retarded that is:
Dietary cholesterol is not evil and in fact beneficial for healthy hormone synthesis. Being a good source of cholesterol is actually a plus for including meat in your diet. Eating way too much of it is not good but neither is gorging yourself on, say, strawberries.
Saturated fats cut levels of lipoproteins, strengthen bones, the liver, the lungs, improve immune function, and are vital for proper function of the nervous system. Oh shit, another plus for eating carcasses.
Again, just assuming that everyone who eats meat will be a total retard without any self-control while every vegan will be a disciplined and knowledgeable eater is loop-sided and more of an argument for moderation and knowledge than for cutting out meat.
As for environmental impact: it's not as big as you assume, switching over to even larger scale industrial crops has its own host of environmental problems (and no you can't just give people the plants you'd feed the animals) and there are more practical ways that don't affect human nutrition to do the same thing.
>>37769026
I'm not sure where you're getting your information from, but all the studies I can find supporting your statement were conducted or funded by the US Egg Board (not a government agency, a for profit corporation) or advocates of the Atkin's diet.
This is what the American Heart Association says about it, if you're curious: http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/Cholesterol/WhyCholesterolMatters/Why-Cholesterol-Matters_UCM_001212_Article.jsp
When dietary cholesterol increases, plaques within the arteries form. These plaques cause Atherosclerosis, which is heart disease.
>>37765178
Pumping Iron and his bodybuilding antics from earlier days were heavily fictionalized to make him and other body builders around him more interesting and to grow their celebrity. I think the only scandalous thing he did that's probably true is tell some guy to yell as he posed on stage so he would look funny and Arnold would be more likely to win.
>>37765121
Vegans are like the fucking atheist of the lifting world
>>37769141
Atheist here, I agree
I haven't given a fuck about religion, good or bad, since Christian high school
I don't give a fuck about redpilling people on nutrition, social issues, politics, religion or anything anymore since I was redpilled by sluthate.com
Get ahead
>>37765121
Arnold isn't my hero though, I just want to have an Arnold like chest proportion (tfw never).
Dead body (Reference: MEAT) is basically the #1 source for protein and since I can't eat people animals are the next step to protein consumption. I also understand that you'll probably go crazy and get some sort of mental disease from eating people so that's kind of bad for gains.
>>37769119
Typical vegan,
chooses to answer >>37769026 which has a bit of oversimplification and hyperbole
instead of >>37769063 which is actually serious.
>>37765501
damn imagine having a trip on /fit/ serving only to post infographs and type long responses to each person that disagrees with you. sounds like hell
>>37769119
Lol tell me more about how the u.s. Department of food and ag is unbiased while single handedly keeping the corn and soybean market alive with billions in subsidies. American heart association gets funding by the USDA a subsidiary of food and ag.
>>37765121
>http://www.privatejetcharter.co.uk/private-jet-blog/2013/11/top-10-celebrity-private-jets/
>The body builder turned actor, turned State Governor decieded in 2011, that he needed his own private jet.
I'll take People Who's Advice on Environmentalism I Wouldn't Accept for $500, Alex.
>>37769119
>>37769571
I realized it might not be clear to you why subsidies are important. You see the united states has a de facto planned agriculture economy due to the many incentives they give farmers for certain crops. The problem with this is that like most planned economies they fuck up and cause overproduction thus causing a glut and killing the market. In the 80s they did this with dairy because at the time the gov would buy any unsold milk. This caused so much overproduction that the government was forced to turn it into cheese and give it away for free. Nowadays the biggest lobby is corn and soy and we've overproduced so much of that they've run out of grain silos to store it in. Ever wonder why the government nutrition guidelines change so often? Because they aren't there to drive health they are there to drive consumption in a planned economy. That's also why that shitty food pyramid says we should eat like a half a loaf of bread and some pasta a day and the pic is like white bread and shit the government is the last place I'd take my diet advice from.
https://www3.epa.gov/climatechange/ghgemissions/gases/co2.html
https://www3.epa.gov/climatechange/ghgemissions/gases/co2.html
https://www3.epa.gov/climatechange/ghgemissions/gases/n2o.html
https://www3.epa.gov/climatechange/ghgemissions/gases/fgases.html
Vegans should really consider suicide. The TOTAL greenhouse gas emissions from ALL agricultural production, which INCLUDES FUCKING CROPS, is only ~10-15% of all emissions. What most studies include in "agricultural production" is deforestation and processing/packing/transporting of agricultural goods. The ACTUAL EMISSIONS from PURE AGRICULTURE is a fraction of the total emissions generated by humans.
Furthermore, animals are ONLY 30% of Methane emissions in the US. Natural gas and petroleum productions account for more than livestock. Get your fucking facts straight.
>>37765121
>Shifting the burden of proof
>False authority
>Fallacy of the single cause
>Moral high-ground fallacy
>Proof by assertion
>Hasty generalization
>Appeal to emotion
You're guilty of all the above logical fallacies, and those are just the low-hanging-fruit, I'm not willing to take the time to get to the deeper ones.
Please kill yourself now.
>>37769063
>Dietary cholesterol is not evil and in fact beneficial for healthy hormone synthesis. Being a good source of cholesterol is actually a plus for including meat in your diet
Dietary cholesterol does fuck-all for hormone synthesis. You're mistaking the fact that hormones like estrogen and testosterone are synthesized from the cholesterol circulating in your blood, which is a rate-limited process that also doesn't imply more cholesterol = more hormones, to mean that the cholesterol you eat is used to make hormones.
http://www.nap.edu/read/10490/chapter/11
>Saturated fats cut levels of lipoproteins, strengthen bones, the liver, the lungs, improve immune function, and are vital for proper function of the nervous system
Again, none of this applies to dietary saturated fat. Saturated fat is critical and necessary for a lot of things in the body, that's why your body synthesizes it. Exogenous saturated fat on the other hand only promotes disease.
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10490&page=422
How many vegans do you think you can convince that in fact eating meat isn't bad and we are omnivorous? Probably none. Just eat meat and stop giving a fuck about vegans and their pills..
>>37765501
>>37765523
You still havent killed yourself?
>>37767193
>Vegans have to get their B12 from e. coli
>>37771058
I swear some people just patrol the internet with a "logical fallacy" checklist.
>>37765121
The Mongols eat meat and conquered the world.
Tibetans are vegans and about to be genocided by the chinks.
You know Im a meat eater.
I will NEVER stop eating meat.
SHOW ME HOW I CAN GET 100G+ OF BIO AVAILABLE PROTONS WITH LESS THAN 150G OF FUCKING CARBS DAILY, FUCK THIS RETARD TRAIN.
>if you go your entire life without eating tasty food you MIGHT get to live to be 87 instead of 83
sounds like a fucking great deal, where do i buy plants?
>>37766582
But it allowed more carbs to be used for fueling the brain, you retard.
>>37772652
I really don't get what vegans are trying to say. The average lifespan in developed countries is already 70+. That's with the bad eating habbits, drinking and smoking that average people have. Do they really think anyone wants to live to be a 85-year-old who can barely move? What's the point? Anything after 60 is kind of irrelevant.
>>37766536
And got BTFO by meat-eating romans.
>>37765121
If people stopped eating meat everyplace would be overpopulated with uneaten chickens, cows, sheep and goats.
>>37772685
The health concerns are about quality of life, not lifespan. The increase in lifespan offered by a vegan diet is about 5-7 years, at least according to studies done on Seventh Day Adventists.
The difference is (to me anyway) that I'm more likely to not need medication for preventable disease in my 50's onward. I'm interested in feeling good longer, not just living the maximum number of years.
>>37765455
Cuck
