Does cardio kill gains?
>>37742133
Lack of cardio kills gains.. as in it litterally kills you, and your gains are part of you
>>37742133
yes, in order to maximize gains, you should get a wheelchair so that no cardio is done aside from lifting weights.
No doing exercise doesn't kill gains.
Lack of sleep and/or calories kills gains
People do cardio and don't do one of the above and blame cardio
>>37742133
Aerobic cardio kills gains (increased cortisol, increased gene expression for fat retention, decreased gene expression for muscle growth, can fuck with leptin sensitivity and ghrelin regulation)
Anaerobic cardio is the giver of gains, and just as good (arguably better) for your heart.
Walking is the exception
Walking, or standing, or stretching, or squatting (bodyweight, as in resting, ya dingus) or being an active hooman being is not ""cardio""
This is not the gains killer, this is literally what you are evolved to do.
Walk around, stretch around, increase your tdee.
My favorite anaerobic cardio is barbell complexes, as they are safer and more fun than sprinting, though i like to do sprints as well, because i enjoy being faster and stronger (and leaner and healthier)
If my presumption is correct that you are familiar with psychonautics, i think you will find it very synergistic with physical improvement.
Just like those wacky ancient greeks
>>37743775
https://www.t-nation.com/training/the-best-damn-cardio-article-period
>>37742133
Just stopping in to say that i did a low dose of acid earlier and this gif just melted my brain. Thanks OP
>>37743775
Where do you fit in your sprinting days, provided you're lifting also? I'm on PPL and looking to do sprints again. I used to do them and circuit training in lieu of leg days because of injuries. However, I'm back to leg days. How do you fit them in? Currently I do them on pull days after my workout.
Also, I believe marathon running and other extreme distances increase cortisol, etc. It's part of why Ryan Hall recently retired from distance running and took up weight lifting instead. I think doing 5ks and whatnot are okay. I ran cross country and lifted at the same time and was in great shape. Granted we were running pretty damn fast at 5 minute mile pace for practices and not slower paces.
>>37742133
OP, do your cardio for it does not kill gains. People that say it does are too retarded to eat and sleep more as well as intelligently implement it into their program. Cardio improves recovery and helps with delivery of nutrients, for instance. Also the heart is the most important muscle of the body.
>>37743878
Cardio after lifting is my fav.
If I do cardio on a rest day (i prefer to call them recovery days) i do 1/3rd the cardio i usually do, unless i overate.
I only do that when i am feeling exceptionally strong and energetic, i do just enough cardio to remove the extra edge, not enough to fatigue me.
And my cardio is like 80% barbell complex work, or push up/inverted row/bw plyometric work. The other 20% (if that) is sprinting.
I usually do 2-4 cardio sessions a week
I try to stay active 100% of the time (pacing around on the ipad as i type this) unless i am actively focusing on resting.
>>37743878
P.s. Ppl is probably suboptimal.
Post routine and stats.
Also any cardio over 1 min or so is cortisol town.
Multiple bursts of HIGH INTENSITY ANAEROBIC cardio
>>37743878
P.p.s. Only anaerobic cardio helps with nutrient partitioning.
Aerobic cardio fucks nutrient partitioning.
>>37743962
What do you mean "PPL is suboptimal"?
>>37742179
This, OP
Also, you need to lift weights that feel too heavy, that way you don't over-rep and make your heart metabolize your gains.
>>37744011
Training frequency
>>37743775
let's dissect this broscience
>Aerobic cardio kills gains
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26932769
>However, a close examination of the literature reveals that the interference effect of concurrent exercise training on muscle growth in humans is not as compelling as previously thought. Moreover, recent studies show that, under certain conditions, concurrent exercise may augment resistance exercise-induced hypertrophy in healthy human skeletal muscle.
>increased cortisol
only acutely which is beneficial since it is indicative of a good training session
http://www.mcmaster.ca/opr/html/opr/media/main/NewsReleases/Researchdebunksbodybuildingmythgrowthpromotinghormonesdontpromotegrowthorstrength.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22105707
it actually reduces cortisol chronically (area under the curve) which is anti-catabolic
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17148741
the catabolic properties of glucocorticoids are dependent on transcription factors which take a long time to exert their effects (short term fluctuations mean very little)
>increased gene expression for fat retention
http://www.nature.com/nrendo/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nrendo.2016.76.html
>Induction of a thermogenic gene program and browning of white adipose tissue (WAT) have also been implicated in reducing adiposity and insulin resistance following endurance exercise37–39. Upregulation of uncoupling protein1 (UCP1) in WAT, especially subcutaneous WAT (scWAT), in response to endurance exercise has been intimately linked with improved metabolic status
>>37743775
>decreased gene expression for muscle growth
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26885978
>Endurance Exercise Enhances the Effect of Strength Training on Muscle Fiber Size and Protein Expression of Akt and mTOR.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27101291
>Thus, aerobic exercise alters the skeletal muscle transcriptional signature of resistance exercise to initiate important gene programs promoting both myofiber growth and improved oxidative capacity. These results provide novel insight into human muscle adaptations to diverse exercise modes and offer the very first genomic basis explaining how aerobic exercise may augment, rather than compromise, muscle growth induced by resistance exercise.
>can fuck with leptin sensitivity
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16936204
>Exercise improves insulin and leptin sensitivity in hypothalamus of Wistar rats.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19158409
>Three weeks of postweaning exercise in DIO rats produces prolonged increases in central leptin sensitivity and signaling
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20808781
>IL-6 and IL-10 anti-inflammatory activity links exercise to hypothalamic insulin and leptin sensitivity through IKKbeta and ER stress inhibition
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21586558
>Voluntary exercise improves high-fat diet-induced leptin resistance independent of adiposity.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20303394
>Our results showed that exercise elevated levels of receptor proteins for leptin (Ob-R) in the hypothalamus.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22136466
>Rats in the exercised group demonstrated significant higher (+60%) than sedentary group in Ob-Rb mRNA concentration
>Taken together, it seems that endurance exercise might improve leptin sensitivity.
all these labs used aerobic/endurance exercise protocols and all saw improved leptin sensitivity
>>37743775
>and ghrelin regulation
all exercise does this though, aerobic/endurance exercise less so
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195666315301252
>moderate-intensity aerobic exercise (<75% VO2max, 30-90 minutes) has demonstrated 14-60% reductions in acylated ghrelin concentrations compared to pre-exercise or resting controls
>However, performing high-intensity exercise may suppress acylated ghrelin more consistently, with observed reductions of 20-66% (Deighton et al. 2013a, King et al. 2011, Martins et al. 2015, Metcalfe et al. 2015, Sim et al. 2014).
>Anaerobic cardio is the giver of gains
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27101297
>concurrent exercise incorporating HIT, but not MICT, reduces postexercise expression of miRNAs implicated in skeletal muscle adaptation to RE.
>and just as good (arguably better) for your heart.
aerobic/endurance athletes have much higher vo2max. that keeps all your organs perfused and reduces strain to the heart
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6527512
http://www.thestrengthandconditioningblog.com/2012/07/efficiency-is-important-in-sprinting.html
>Note from the table above that the sprinters VO2 max range is actually similar to a Volleyball player and a golfer. While the above table conveys a lot about the different sports in terms of what type of fitness is required, the key point for us at the moment is that sprinters have relatively low aerobic capacities compared to athletes in other sports. This in fact is not surprising as they cover very little ground during training and obviously during competition.
which makes sense, anaerobic adaptations are localized to the skeletal muscle and after you get past the newb stage they're not gonna induce any aerobic adaptations
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20473222
>These data suggest that adaptations with ET are of central origin primarily, whereas those with SIT are more peripheral
>>37743775
while actually intentionally training for aerobic adaptation with endurance exercise induces the release of growth factors that enter systemic circulation and reach the heart
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24450403
>During muscle contraction, VEGF increases in the muscle interstitium, acts on VEGF receptors on the capillary endothelium, and thereby stimulates angiogenic processes. A primary source of muscle interstitial VEGF during exercise is the skeletal muscle fibers which contain large stores of VEGF within vesicles.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4372563/
>The fact that our animals demonstrated hypertrophy in response to HIIT, together with an increase in HIF1α protein, and without a concomitant increase in VEGF protein, suggests that the adaptive molecular signals are in the early stages and prior to compensatory angiogenesis typically seen in myocardial hypertrophy.
>The lack of response of VEGF protein content was not expected, although it is known that the effect of training on VEGF protein is temporal [64].
>the present data are the first to demonstrate that HIIT does not induce angiogenesis in the hypertrophied LV
>>37743775
they also reach the brain
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21731619
>These studies suggest that the increased capillary density found in mammals with high MMRs is indexing higher levels of circulating VEGF. Given the known importance of VEGF for brain growth and neurogenesis, this link suggests that circulating neurotrophins may be playing a role in the association between brain size and MMR described above.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14656329
>VEGF is necessary for exercise-induced adult hippocampal neurogenesis.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1113/JP271552/abstract
>Compared with sedentary animals, the highest number of doublecortin-positive hippocampal cells was observed in HRT rats that ran voluntarily on a running wheel, whereas HIT on the treadmill had a smaller, statistically non-significant effect on AHN.
increased hippocampal neurogenesis strengthens feedback inhibition on the HPA axis, which might explain why endurance/aerobic exercise results in a chronic suppression of cortisol, catecholamines, and other stress hormones
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19322118
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352289514000198
>>37745058
Dr. Rhonda patrick told me all benefits of aerobics can be attained with anaerobics, and all detriment of aerobics can be avoided with anaerobics, that is all i know.
>>37743775
Well nigger...
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>>37745995
So basically you are saying i can jog, and the fat oxidation wont make me fat?
My body wont try to replenish fat reserves?
Btw as the person you told, thanks gor the info.
I for real thought aerobic cardio was broscience.
This is good for my mma training. I thought marsthons would make me skinnyfat like nate diaz. But i guess that is just because he is vegan...?
>>37746169
Fat oxidation is exactly the opposite of making you fat. And yes, it will try to replenish fat reserves through a rise in ghrelin secretion and lowering BMR (up to 15% according to literature), however, that happens with all forms of weightloss except for bariatric surgery.
Also, I am not the guy who told you.
>>37745995
I bet you wish you were funny...
>>37746225
Nope. No need.
What did I win, by the way?
>>37745995
I really hope this is copypasta because it's the cringiest thing I've seen in a long time
>>37746258
It is. I like it though.
>>37746186
Well i know in the short term fat oxidization is the opposite of making me fat.
I thought it conditioned the body to replenish fat vis-a-vis gene expression
>>37746258
To be fair, i did get told...
>>37746377
As I said. Yes, it stimulates some "regulatory" systems that promote the maintenance of the fat reserves (that are most evident on obese people), but what I am trying to say is that it is not exclusive to LISS cardio, any excercise and diet that results in fat loss will do the same thing. With time (literature states 1-5 years) those effects subside, BMR increases a little and ghrelin and leptin axes return to baseline. Thus, the maintenance of weightloss is the tricky part about becoming /fit/.
>>37746418
Sp to be clear, there is NO detriment, and possibly only benefit to sticking to anaerobic cardio exclusively?
>>37746470
There is not detriment per se, but the cardiovascular resistance is better built on aerobic cardio, to my understanding. I haven't really looked into that to be completely honest. What I know, however, is that cardio makes a good way of burning fat and building muscle is a better way to increase BMR to keep fat gone.
Would farmers walk over a decent distance be considered cardio? Im talking 1.5-2mi.
In simple terms you'd have to be training for some kind of endurance sport to have a serious negative effect on your precious gains
>>37746495
>some retard walking down the street with 45 pound plates
