>back pain
>go to a doctor
>they don't know what's wrong
>ask for an mri
>they refuse to give me one
>this has happened 5 times
Why is America so shitty when it comes to health care?
let the professionals do their job
Socialism phobia
>>36499691
>"""professionals"""
If they were so good then why is my back injury such a mystery to these idiots?
>>36499278
What do you mean they refuse to give you one? I'm sure they will if you're willing to pay for it. Convincing your insurance to pay for something you probably don't need might be another story.
>>36499738
They just avoid the subject or say I don't need one. Then I ask what they think is wrong with me
"oh i'm not sure but lemme make you buy these pills and ask for a follow up next month. goyim goyim!"
>>36499278
Deny you an MRI?
Let me guess you don't have health insurance...
Don't blame America for your shit problems.
>>36499770
I have BCBS.
>>36499278
Happened twice in 7 years, ended up needing a fusion both times. Both times it was 6 months of them denying anything was wrong followed by 3 months of cortisone then finally they decided to fix it.
>>36499808
People just don't understand back pain, man. God speed.
The next time they say no, get indignant
>>36499767
Have you thought about trying a different GP?
>>36499808
how's the pain now? better/worse? gone?
>>36499854
I've tried up to 4 of them. Same thing.
>>36499691
>professionals
All doctors do is listen to what you say, jump on their computer and google whatever the fuck it is you just told them.
I couldn't believe it. I was like "you asshole I could have done that at home."
>>36500524
what? did you see a doctor do this or something?
>>36500586
I've seen all my primary physicians do this lol. Though it's not Google, it's some program like WebMD I think.
>>36500586
That's what they all do
>>36500586
I work with doctors every day. I promise you, that's all they do. That and bitch about how 15 seconds is too long to wait when downloading 4000 HD images
>>36500611
>>36500617
I don't know if you're trolling but if not, jesus christ that is sad.
>>36500675
No wonder people I know always get fucked over by surgery or misdiagnosed shit. Do they not get in trouble because of this?
>>36500692
Work in IT for a walk in clinic chain, every doctor just googles what's wrong. Emphasizing you're in deep pain will get you referred to a specialist, who will do some testing to really figure out what's going on. GPs are overpaid
>>36501249
I'll just do this after my follow up at the orthopedic. I appreciate the help.
>>36499278
>have ac joint pain
>referred to shoulder specialist
>give me two different diagnoses, tells me its a pec tear then an impingement.
>"go to physical therapy"
>get $400 bill after insurance
>look up pt exercises on youtube
Thanks bud. Never going to a doctor again unless I'm dying.
>>36500748
lolnope
Seriously. Doctors don't give a shit about you, they get paid by insurance based on how many people they can see in a day, not how accurate their diagnosis is.
>>36499278
Are u me?
>>36500611
>it's some program like WebMD
Otherworldly kek
I have pretty much godtier insurance. I cant get an mri unless i literally cant walk into the hospital on my own. If u dont come in on a stretcher or a wheel chair they womt give u one.
>>36501358
>have seizure
>get mri ezpz
>literally nothing wrong with me
>>36501342
Depends. Are you?
>>36499278
It's because complaining about back pain and asking for an MRI is very basic drug seeking behavior.
that is exactly what people do when they want pain pills. And with recent legislation and police focus on this exact issue(in the past an MRI was enough legal cover for doctors to prescibe painpills), they are going to be very careful.
The truth is that an MRI isnt really going to show much as it is probably an inflammation issue
>>36501468
>inflammation issue
But that wouldn't explain why I've been getting this pain for years.
>>36501326
this, especially chiropractors. they are literally salesmen.
>>36501484
Why not? Inflammatory pain can be chronic.
Stupid question, but do you guys think not sitting all day will fix my back pain?
I'm 18 years old. The only thing I could think of that could be causing my back pain is that I sit for 10+ hours a day, usually with poor posture.
I have NO referred pain/ Sciatica.
Whatever it is, it's completely isolated to the lower back muscles on either side of the spine. One of my vertebrae actually hurts when I press on it hard, but I think that's because my lower back muscles are tense and pulling on it.
What do you guys think?
>>36501468
Thank you for making a thoughtful post.
>>36501760
no shit
how about you try stretching?
look up 12 minute back stretch on youtube
stretch your hamstrings
>>36501760
sitting for that long will cause some back problems, yes. if you can, stand up every few hours or so and do something. stretching daily and icing will help as well.
>>36501790
>>36501794
I'm mostly just worried at this point that I've caused permanent damage.
Also yes I think stretching will help me. I can't even get to 45 degree bent over with straight legs
Question
I had a lower back MRI in 2012 that showed 3 (slightly) bulging discs and degenerative disc disease. Ortho doc said he thought it looked hereditary and not injury-related. I had another MRI a few months ago that showed everything in my lower back was normal.
Is that common/possible for it to heal like that? What are the chances that one of the interpretations was wrong?
>>36501760
Do you lift and stretch? Back/core/leg exercises?
>>36501808
it's not permanent damage, it's just you having a stiff back. fix your hamstrings and posture, you should be feeling amazing within 2 months
>>36501868
>stiff back
stiff body, my bad
>>36501848
I tried lifting but due to inflexibility and back pain I just stopped. I got depressed for a while because of it but I'm moving right now and it's giving me a new spark.
>>36501868
Alright, that's what I need to hear, man. Thanks guys
Well I think I'm absolutely fucked. Pressing onto the side of one of my vertebrates causes a semi sharp pain. I thought it was muscular all these years, fuck my life
All you guys thinking that doctors do nothing but google their diagnosis are out of your mind. Yeah maybe there are some dumbfucks who do this, but a real doctor who knows his shit and educated himself in his area of expertise couldn't even stand the thought that he's just googling stuff not helping at all
>>36499770
>needing health insurance in the first place
>don't blame America
How do I know if my pain is being caused by bulging/slipped disc or degenerative disk disease?
I get no referred pain or sciatica, and the pain is almost always localized to the lower back.
As a german it's really hard to get into my mind that you guys can't just go to a doctor of your choice and get the treatment you need. I pay 80€/month and have everything basic covered.
Go to a physio
Physiotherapist here.
The amount of myths and misconceptions surrounding low back pain is staggering. Here are some facts for you.
1. We suck at diagnosing low back pain, and by "we" I don't mean physios but everybody. An MRI is useless and sometimes even counterproductive due to the unfortunate fact that A) You will almost always find something that stands out, and B) You have NO IDEA of knowing whether what you're looking at is what actually causes the pain.
Oh, and here's a fun related fact for you: somebody who's labeled with an actual diagnose take on average 3 times as long to get over their pain as somebody who's simply told they have "non-specific low back pain". This is because of the simple fact that when you think something is seriously wrong with you, your nervous system becomes hypersensitive and everything's going to hurt. For this reason also, it's really not always the best idea to have a doctor show you your MRI because 9 times out of 10 they'll be throwing shit at you like "degenerative changes" and so on, LITERALLY mindfucking you.
2. The more chronic your pain has become, the less it has to do with actual tissue damage. It's become a problem with your brain and nervous system. This is true for many kinds of pain, not just low back pain.
3. The only evidence-based way to get rid of low back pain through training is actually just by training - Not some specialized "core" mumbo jumbo. Just get moving. Moving and exercising beats resting and lying around.
Note however that there's a big difference between exercising for health and well-being, and exercising for maximum performance. The deadlift for example is one of the greatest ways to strengthen your whole back and feel good, but if your goal is to push the envelope performance-wise and lift 2x your bw or more, then the risk/reward ratio gets skewed (not that I'd necessarily advice against that, just be aware that you'd no longer be training for health).
>>36503984
It's hard to train deadlift to help with back pain if the back pain is preventing the deadlift
>>36503984
Thanks for taking the time to type this out homie, I really appreciate it.
>>36504019
It's a pasta in these threads. Whether it's accurate, I've no idea.
>>36503989
So don't do the deadlift. It was just an example. Can you do Romanian deadlift using no weight but simply having your palms on your thighs? If so, do that. It's about creating succesful experiences while moving and exercises. The goal is to keep doing more moves and positions without causing pain in order to teach your nervous system to relax again. Depending on how bad your situation is, you may need to start out doing some really simple stuff that feels almost dumb.
>>36504021
It's a pasta because I got tired of typing out the whole thing daily.
>>36504024
What do you think could be causing me pain when I press on one of my lumbar vertebrates?
I've got trigger points on both sides of my spine in the lumbar area so I'm wondering if the inflamed muscles are causing the vertebrate to be sore or something.
I toyed with the possibility of it being degenerative disk disease but I have zero referred pain or sciatica. It's completely isolated to the low back area.
>>36504064
>so I'm wondering if the inflamed muscles are causing the vertebrate to be sore or something.
Do you have some kind of animal inserted in your lower back, m8?
>>36504123
Kek my bad
>>36504064
Sorry I can't very well examine you across the internet.
If it's something that has just happened to you, don't worry it'll heal.
If it's something that's been going on for a while, try to figure out if you're doing something that keeps aggravating the issue and then refrain from doing this particular thing so much while it heals up.
Don't bother trying to diagnose yourself. It doesn't do you any good.
>>36500524
Literally this
Doctors are a fucking joke. All they will do is bring you to PT and prescribe you shitty medicine. Don't bother. Just stretch and try figuring out what's wrong exactly.
DDP Yoga will resolve your back issues. It's not your mama's yoga.
>>36499711
cause ordering an MRI for every retard who has back pain is considered BAD MEDICINE ya dingus.
it'd be like every faggot with a head cold getting full blood panels, metabolic panels, liver panels, and thyroid panels, + CXR cause they got a fucking chest infection
part of being a good doctor is knowing when to order tests and when not
>>36505309
>>36499808
Hmmmmmmmmm.
>>36505309
since when did headaches become the same as back pain?
>>36505369
>like
>same
nice
>>36505335
> 400k spinal fusions performed per year
> backpain is literally the 3rd most common complaint of EVERY GP visit.
yes we should still give MRIs to every patient because their back hurts
no it doesn't matter that only 0.13% of the population actually require surgical intervention.
GIVE MRIS
WHAT DO U MEAN OTHER PEOPLE NEED THEM
CANCER? WHAT THE FUCK IS CANCER?
I HAVE BACK PAIN OK
also can I have that drug I think its called dilaudid its the only one that works.
>>36505380
dumbest comparison i've ever seen. yep mris are addicting
>>36505380
that's funny, rich people with great insurance get an mri like it's a haircut all the time yet regular people with shattered hips have to wait weeks for a simple xray
I bet you're the manlet radiologist from scrubs who fucking flips his shit everybody wants to use his prescious toy
>>36499278
i had this issue. went to the general doctor they did shit not even any x ray, go see an orthopedic spin specialist well we need an xray, ok that was good we need an mri, here are some pills for you pain.
If there's one thing I've learned in my life, it's that doctors really don't give that much of a shit about helping you if your problem isn't obvious and easily solved with medication. If they don't know what the issue is, or think it's "not that bad", then they'll do their best to give you some generic painkiller or antibiotic and kick you out the door. You need to be firm and be your own advocate; yeah, they have medical degrees, but they're humans that make mistakes so you need to be firm if you really think there's an issue. If your doctor is still a cunt about fixing your issue, then insist on seeing other doctors about it. Too many people hopelessly defer to their authority after the doctor dismisses their issue.
My mom had a severe antibiotic resistance infection that almost killed her a couple of years ago because her (first) idiot doctor couldn't be bothered to swab her oozing ear to see what was up. Don't let them bully and ignore you man.
Just stop having back pain
>>36504214
Well after waking up the pain from touching my vertebrae is just gone. My lower back still feels "off", but nothing like yesterday.
I really don't know what to think anymore
>>36499691
>people who don't know how to do anything but diagnose and prescribe the top 10 most common disorders in their specialty and haven't read a research paper since graduating from med school 30 years ago are "professionals"
>>36501604
Chiropractors do not have a medical liscence retard. They are not doctors.
>>36509076
what is continuing medical education
you need a certain amount of various types of CME per year to keep up your medical license
>>36503880
Exactly. I have a father who is urgent care and a brother who is in med school. I am in physics, and the amount of shit they need to know is comparatively ridiculous. My dad only looks shit up in a online medical textbook program type thing if what they have is really rare. He also weighs the cost of ordering tests for people who might not need them. Believe it or not, doctors don't like to order shit tons of expensive tests which are a major hassle and can just upset the patient. He also gets people who come in for pain killers all the time, he tries to not just hand them out for fake pain like they do in Flordia, which is a major problem. In the US doctors are very smart, if you aren't able to get something fixed, 99% of the time it is because you are doing something wrong, not the doctors.
>>36509076
Every doctor I know of in the US is required to go to 1-2 conferences a year and has to take tests every once in a while to continue working for their hospital. I will admit I don't know what is required for private practice. Also, my doctor reads JAMA to keep up to date.
So if I'm not experiencing any sciatica or referred pain, the problem can be fixed by stretching and strengthening the core, right? And sitting less, obviously
The problem is people think we have the solution to everything, they think we have a magic pill for every illness they develop. The truth is we don't, a lot of diseases nowadays don't even have a cure. Then ones who search on the Internet are a disgrace and shouldn't be called doctors. Btw for your back pain actually go with someone who examins deeply like a medical intern. Regular doctors only known how to cure the flu. The MRI is a tool which is used to confirm or drop a diagnosis not something that is used to magically hit a diagnosis.
>>36499278
>go to doctor for back pain
>they tell me it's nothing, go to a psychiatrist it could be psychogenic
>demand an mri
>screaming and crying in the doctors office
ITS MY LEGS TOO NOW, AND MY EYES!!!
>Doctors get me escorted out
>I wish America was better
>>36499278
>wanting an MRI for general back pain
you're a fucking retard
>>36500524
I've actually seen a doctor do this.
>>36506572
dumbest response Ive ever seen.
if you don't understand how doctors over prescribing testing is negatively effecting healthcare than your IQ is probably less than that of posts in this thread.
>>36507059
> muh rich ppl get all dat testings itz not fairrrrrr
no, they don't.
i know its tempting for 16 year olds to wanna give their opinion on everything, but try to hold back.
>>36499278
>I go to doctor
>hey doc my back hurts
>here's a prescription for a chiropractor
>do I have to pay for it?
>HAHA NO, what, does this place look like america?
>Do I need an mri?
>Nope
>Can I have one anyway?
>SURE!
Then we high five because america is shit.
Jumping ship was the best thing I ever did.
I'm thankful every fuckin' day.
>>36511575
great arguments you deliver mayne
you're definitely not talking outta your ass at all
>>36511608
> doctors over prescribing diagnostic testing massively worldwide
> a practice that actually costs e.g. Australia an extra $15 billion dollars a year in healthcare costs -- JUST FOR THE EXTRA TESTING.
> extra testing that is statistically PROVEN to not improve health outcomes at all.
> people think this is a good thing.
sure is under-age in this thread, I guess when your mum pays for everything you don't mind.
>>36511643
> this is the guy who thought somebody saying MRIs shouldn't just be prescribed was because he was worried MRIs were ADDICTING.
>>36511667
>have underfunded infrastructure to the point where a fifth of the nation is getting lead poisoning, fucked roads and bridges
>number one worldwide in gun related deaths, diabetes and childhood poverty
>chronically underfunded and unregulated education to the point where kids can barely read and write after leaving elementary
But we need to go easy on dem mris man, they're like totally messing with our budget mkay
>>36511718
> types out this post sarcastically
> he doesn't realise he's basically supporting what I'm saying.
> this is the average /fit/ poster's mental agility.
>>36500524
It is sadly true. They just tell you what you know, and give you a steroid pack.
>>36511718
You know what pays for infrastructure & education? $15 billion dollars not being spent on poorly prescribed diagnostic testing.
>>36511737
you're replying to the wrong post I'm afraid
>>36511749
or...or... just maybe you could cut that lil piece from the 800 billions from military and stop whining muh healthcare cost is too damn high
seriously it's baffling how edgy neo cons always bitch about healthcare and education spending while not realising how misiscule these things are in the greater picture
>>36501760
Back pain is caused by weak abs and hamstrings. Stop being a little bitch and work your transverse abs
>>36511793
yeah .. or we could not prescribe diagnostic testing such as what's being discussed in this thread?
do you actually think what you're saying is an appropriate line of argument?
if there's a $15 billion dollar cost caused by an issue we can easily fix today -- and is pertinent to this thread -- why not talk about it.
saying stuff like: well why not defund the military instead.
ok, you could do that
or we could stick to the topic at hand?
> seriously it's baffling how edgy neo cons always bitch about healthcare and education spending while not realising how misiscule these things are in the greater picture
like this is so unrelated to the thread it reeks of you just wanting to bust out your intellect and start masturbating it, but you don't actually know anything in regards to healthcare so you had to divert into e.g. military spending.
at this stage unless you type something pertinent out I'm not gonna reply to you anymore.
thanks.
>>36504064
you might have tight hip flexers that is causing you hyper lordosis. if that's the case you should stretch or massage your hip flexers (preferably with a foam roller, you can make one yourself)
you should try massage and light cardio every day. a powernap is also a good idea to speed up recovery after massage.
but be careful, if the pain is in the tendons or bones you should let that heal before removing the triggerpoints because your body creates those to tighten that area for safety.
