Vegan
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You are currently reading a thread in /fit/ - Fitness
You are currently reading a thread in /fit/ - Fitness
So I heard about this autism projector and curiosity got the better of me. Yes, he really does seem like an edgelord faggot, and I've watched the interviews where he is proud to be a sociopath, but how much of what he says is actual bullshit and how much is just uncomfortable truths rustling jimmies? Often when someone is met with such extreme hate AND adoration, it's because they're saying something compelling but also ruining another group of peapples belief system
Realistically, is it actually possible to build a decent physique (by normie standards) and be healthy? He talks about why men should go vegan and cites research showing test levels don't vary between meat eaters and vegans, also talks about going high carb etc.
Can anyone shed light on this? Also how big do vegans get when they're not on roids? All of the people this guy cites on his page clearly roid, pic related
Vegans have no disadvantage to gaining size and mass, its pretty easy to hit your macros off plant foods alone. Some plant foods (seitan, hemp milk, tofu) are ridiculously high in protein.
>>36002390
The thing that concerns me is lack of iodine and B12, which can cause irreversible neurological damage and even paralysis
>>36002486
Iodized salt and either fortified foods or a once a week B12 sublingual. Most people should be doing that anyway.
>>36002486
eat some sea weed like nori or wakame. also a source for omega-3's. I bought a 4 year supply of B12 for 15 bucks on amazon....shit only lasts for 2 years though. Point is it is cheap as fuck, plus fortified foods are everywhere
>>36002486
vegan here for 7 years, never took b12 supplements. sometimes ate foods that had b12 added to them, but stopped eating most processed food some months ago-> no more fortified foods.
not dead, or paralysed. all perfectly normal.
by the way, b12 is produced by bacteria in the ground, not by meat. the b12 goes missing in civilised plant foods because of overfarming, pesticides and cleaning the food. it is also found in well water, but that is also not a thing in civilised countries.
this is why b12 is supplemented to food animals. saying that meat contains b12 is like feeding a chicken oral testosterone and then claiming chicken is a great source of testosterone.
supplement b12 if you want or need to. you can also check it via blood test.
Imo vegans have no disadvantage gaining muscle or in anything else.there are many professional athletes that are vegan (you can say that they are not natty, which is probably true for a lot of them, but neither are the meat-eating athletes).
you will get as big as your genetics let you.
the fact that that all the presented athletes are roiding is simply given by the fact that nattys are not internet-impressive anymore.
>>36002354
Um, which autism projector? Link plz?
>>36002731
Vegan Gaynes YT channel
>>36002354
Name me one top bodybuilder or phyique athlete on this planet that has been a vegan since they started lifting.
I will save you time, there are absoluetly zero. Why? Because nomatter how much vegans say you can get jacked just like meat eaters there is no one who is. It might work on paper but in real life it simply does not work in any way shape or form
>>36003207
This. Every vegan I've ever met has been dyel and unhealthy looking.
>>36002390
Then why do they all look like shit?
>>36003207
This desu, they literally are all weak and scrawny
>>36003207
because the movement is not big since a long time.
name me one top athlete that has not eaten processed foods since he started lifting. oh you can't? cant make gains without processed foods, its proven.
you could make similar points about certain religions/lifestyles/political orientations.
name me one believing bhuddist top level bodybuilder? oh you cant? seems like you cant make gains on bhuddism.
>>36003287
>>36003354
>muh anecdotal evidence
>>36003486
>not showing actual evidence
>>36003486
>name me one believing bhuddist top level bodybuilder? oh you cant? seems like you cant make gains on bhuddism.
Frank zane was buddhist you jaundice infested fuck
>>36003346
>>36003287
To be fair, most people who eat meat look like shit as well. 2 out of 3 Americans are overweight/obese, and they sure as hell aren't vegan.
>>36002354
Ilya Ilian is Vegan #enoughsaid
>>36003516
he started working out when he was 16 or 17. I doubt he started his buddhism career with 16 or 17.
point made, cant make gains on buddhism.
>>36003620
He made enough gains to be 3 time mr O, what have vegans done? Oh yeh, nothing...
>>36002390
Yes they do, the inflammation caused by eating meat is crucial for muscle growth. Look into arachidonic acid. Aside from that vegans are typically deficient in B12 and certain minerals.
What you find is that vegans come out with whole barrage of propaganda about how they can make the same gains, how their test levels are so high (even though they're all skinny and frail looking), they are masters of propaganda, they care only about their agenda not the truth. Look at how they manipulate slaughterhouse videos, making videos of dead animals being disposed in a grinder and making out like you shouldn't eat meat because farmers grind up live animals etc.
They're just stupid, ignorant, emotionally-manipulative people. It's sad how so many weak-minded guys are falling for the vegan fad without doing the research themselves. If you do the research you will find that nearly all their claims are bullshit.
>>36003699
there where vegan sprint records (including 100m,carl lewis). there is a vegan ufc fighter (mac danzig), there are vegan bodybuilders and strongmen (including patrick baboumian, who has a world record for yoke walks).
vegans are more common in ultra- endurance events, probably because most vegans dont want to take ridiculous amounts of drugs to destroy their health to dance in a gay fashion in front of homosexuals for little pay.
according to a 2014 faunalytics study, only 0,5% of people are vegan, with 70% quitting the diet. how many athletes are supposed to be vegan demographically, especially since many people are forced on plant based diets by health concerns?
>he made enough gains to be 3 time mr O
yeah it was a joke to illustrate the problem with the other anons statement. christ get your autism under control
>>36003917
>probably because most vegans dont want to take ridiculous amounts of drugs to destroy their health
>lists a world class sprinter, a ufc competitor and a strongman
Top kek
No vegan will ever be the mr O, the worlds strongest man or the worlds most aesthetic fitness model. Get over it you jaundice monster and have fun with your no gains lel
>>36003725
Why on earth do vegans have to spread propaganda so viciously then? What's their agenda?
If anything, meat companies would want to spread propaganda to make money since it's a billion dollar industry
Vegans gain nothing. Do they want to dupe you into buying more kale or something?
>>36002354
If you think that guy is roiding you're nuts.
Most of what vg says is true, if exaggerated for argument. You can verify that yourself, he cites all his sources. Cory McCarthy is a better source for this kind of stuff though as far as YouTube videos go
>>36004213
Kill yourself
>>36002354
I hate the internet' all it does is make me confused. some faggots scream vegan is the way. Then you have people saynig nah you need fat go on a fat based diet.
I honestly don't know and I admit I am not smart enough to really understand what actually is good for me.
I'm going to stick with my diet of eat whatever I want that I think is good. Like everyone else does too.
> but look at all the scientific "evidence" that vegans have less diseases etc etc.
science can't be trusted in this day and age.
I mean a lot of it can, but food / diet and biochemistry studies? Uhm.
>>36004143
vegans thrive on feeling morally superior to others, it's the only reason they exist
>>36003537
Ilya Ilyin is roiding #enoughsaid
>>36002354
The point is that eating meat is unnatural. So are many other things that we do, from wearing clothes to jailing people who steal food, from going to work in offices to banning sex with underage girls. Civilizations themselves are "unnatural". Just about everything we do in a day is "unnatural". I am just saying that eating meat is "unnatural" in that our body was not programmed to eat meat. There are many wildly "unnatural" things we do. We can argue forever if it is good or bad to do unnatural things (first we should define what is "good" and what is "bad", which would be another long discussion). From the viewpoint of a diet, maybe the "good/bad" and "natural/unnatural" discussions are a bit easier: your mind may have adapted to a lot of changes, but your stomach is still fundamentally the stomach of a million years ago.
>>36004619
Meat is the primordial fast food. At some point humans realized that they could absorb a lot of nutrients (notably, proteins) by just eating someone else's brain. Humans were cannibals before they were carnivores. The human brain was the first meat item in the menu (it is also one of the easiest to digest for non-carnivore). Then humans started eating also other animals, but to this day they are disgusted at the idea of eating most animals. Humans still don't eat the majority of animals. The reason they started eating animals is simple: it was easier than hunting and eating humans. Why did humans started eating human brains? I think it was one of the many accidental discoveries of human civilization: humans were killers before they were cannibals, and one day they realized that they could eat the brains of their victims, and that the brains were highly nutritional. My feeling is that "hunting" is just an evolution of "fighting". Humans are equipped with an uncanny ability and passion to kill fellow humans. It is an art in itself. Humans were killers from the very beginning. They became cannibals much later, more or less by accident. They became meat eaters and animal hunters even later.
Fish is a different story. Humans can and do eat raw fish with a relatively high chance of not getting sick. And there is evidence that a fish diet is not easily replaced by a vegetarian diet.
>>36002705
Your body recycles B12, (and can do so for a few years maybe), however once it's gone and not replaced, irreversible nerve damage damage can follow.
"Owing to the extremely efficient enterohepatic circulation of B12, the liver can store several years’ worth of vitamin B12; therefore, nutritional deficiency of this vitamin is rare. How fast B12 levels change depends on the balance between how much B12 is obtained from the diet, how much is secreted and how much is absorbed. B12 deficiency may arise in a year if initial stores are low and genetic factors unfavourable, or may not appear for decades."
>>36002705
I'm also vegan. Just supplement your b12, dude. Unless you're growing all your own food and not washing it, you'll deplete your stores eventually. Once you have deficiency symptoms it's too late. Also, vegan b12 supplements are readily available, but all the b12 shots they give you for deficiency are animal derived. It's more vegan to just supplement regularly.
Frank Medrano would be a good source for you to admire.
>>36003917
Endurance sports and bodybuilding aren't two sides of a coin, you unenlightened faggot
While veganism might not be bad for you (it probably is though), the question is, why do it? Why would you willingly limit your own food choices, I just don't understand whats in it for these people
>>36004619
>>36004629
Natural is subjective and intuitive. Turns out, there's a lot of agreement on different people's conception/feeling about what's natural.
Certainly eating meat feels natural. We start our life's consuming animal protein, and to think that this could ever feel unnatural is hopelessly wrong.
If you really have trouble with the notion of natural, then replace with pre-industrial or something along those lines. When you see the word natural, read "what do the native tribes people do".
>>36006497
>>36006497
and
>>36006593
Are we running out of water?
>>36006610
Ask California.
>>36003917
Patricks "world record" is like 700 lbs lower than what the did at the arnold.
>vegan strongmen
>>36006593
>>36006593
>conveniently leaving out soy production, rice and fish
I firmly believe that this fancy Graph is completely unbiased and truthful
>>36006593
>>36006606
cool skewed data and graphs bro where can I learn to purposely mislead people as well as these graphs
>>36006631
It was a desert before people lived there, and is still a desert. What is your point?
That the population has outstripped the abilities of nonnative water sheds to supply it?
>vegans having any idea what they are talking about.
Tell me about Las Vegas' water issues next.
>>36006638
This, that guy is a fucking joke.
>>36003917
they didn't get those records as vegans though
>>36006644
Wouldn't need so much soy if cattle didn't consume it which is mainly why so much soy is produced anyway.
>>36006761
Well... if you knew your shit, you'd know that soy is mainly used for pork and human cosumption (e. g emulgators) but w/e
Fishing is one of the least harmful way of getting animal brotons on your table while excessive rice farming in south-east asia is poisoning their waters and Farmers.
Yeah everything in Moderation would be the key but you vegan faggots coveniently ignore that to make it fit your narrow minds
He's such a stupid, deluded faggot, he thinks that Mike Ohearn should pay him mind but not Blaha.
He mocks Blaha's appearance and physical healthy hen he himself is the antithesis of athleticism, beauty and health.
He got cucked by an equally mentally unstable androgynous Nederlander and now continues his residence as a celibate house wizard making angry videos for frail liberals to thump their beanie little cocks to
Being vegan or not makes absolutely no difference if you're macros are the same
>>36007405
>VG's videos
>for liberals
Do you even watch them?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PJtrVC44fE
>>36006852
>fishing
>one of the least harmful
http://wwf.panda.org/about_our_earth/blue_planet/problems/problems_fishing/
>>36007560
I know he's racist and makes fun of gays and is MGTOW/men's rights, so yeah, that word was misplaced
I guess I meant frail little vegans who get up in arms when they see their green basement wizard hero extol their particular worldview as if it is any more enlightening or moral to live a vegan life
![hqdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Jx6Fmdv.jpg "hqdefault[1].jpg")
>>36007622
Maybe he makes his videos to piss of baby-minded meat eaters who shit their pants and cry whenever someone questions their lifestyle, and the fanbase developed around that. It's pretty funny to watch the reactions of the people who disagree with him because they mostly disagree because they were raised to believe something else, not because they've thought about things logically and came to a different conclusion through reason and clear thinking. They watch his videos and just can't believe someone would call them out on all these things they never had to defend or think about before, and realize they're probably wrong about a lot of the things they believe.
>>36007735
Hello Rich
>>36007751
Uh oh, BUSTED! It's just a truthy fucking post, it doesn't count.
>>36007560
antifeminists are the ultimate fucking human trash
>>36007773
You know Richie Simmons, you can be a damn funny mothercunt when you try.
I just want to see you own up to your bullshit and hypocrisy, see you squirm and own up to your past failures.
You attack all these people and they're stupid idiots when they respond (bs3, stoppani, lobliner, biolayne, et al)
and when they ignore you they're also retards (Mike Ohearn)
You're squirming like a pig.
I can't wait to taste the bacon.
No homo by the way, with the bacon reference
You can be a vegan and make gains.
But you can't be a vegan and not be an insufferable fag. Even if you lift.
Also your implication that veganism is more healthy even if you're physically fit is bullshit. Vegans are more healthy than the average fat fucktard, not a meat eater who isn't overweight and does at least moderate physical activity
>>36007908
This.
If being 100% vegan conferred real benefits to human well being, people wouldn't need to endlessly bitch about how great it is.
The results would speak for themselves.
They say living well is the best revenge
>>36007908
So basically if someone wanted to live like a lazy slob and just eat and game all day erryday, they should become a vegan, but if you're lifting heavy and walk a lot, eating meat and animal products is fine?
I guess this makes sense
>>36008530
Yeah. Not only would most people consider it honorable to live an active lifestyle and therefore think it justified to consume a choice array of foods, but also the majority of good health comes from consuming a balanced diet with lots of vegetables, fibrous carbs and healthy fats in combination with exercise, facts on which virtually every diet sect and medical professional agrees, vegan, paleo dieter, Epicurus, Jesus Christ or US surgeon general alike.
>finally
And simply put, veganism is not 'virile.'
What you see is reality. You do not see potent vegan males. If you are vegan, a teetotaler, a non-smoker, a non-tanner, or any assortment of 'ans,' you are making a choice and a sacrifice in order to attain longevity, at the expense of some other attribute.
In the case of pure veganism, lest you are able to replicate the, physical, metabolic and hormonal effects of meat, fish dairy and egg consumption to the dot through supplementation, you will not be as physically and sexually potent as a comparable omnivore.
Are vegans healthy? Mostly yes
Are vegans healtier than most of the population
More than likely yes
Are vegans healthier than meat eaters who train and eat lots of vegatables too.
Absolutely not
Can vegans make the same gains as meat eaters in muscle mass
Not even close. Simply put vegans cannot make the same gains as meat eaters. And the proof is in the fact that ZERO top physique athletes bodybuilders, strongmen or powerlifters are vegan.
To summerise vegan is a healthy lifestyle. But it will absolutely not be affective if you want to gain lean muscle at anywhere near the rate of meat eaters
>>36002354
Is that Cyan?
>>36006638
>>36006676
it was 130kgs heavier (for the better people, tons of people did not make the 40kgs heavier). however, the course was only 5 meters instead of ten (barboumian world record) and the only people that made it where zaviscas and shaw.
>>36010266
>In the case of pure veganism, lest you are able to replicate the, physical, metabolic and hormonal effects of meat, fish dairy and egg consumption to the dot through supplementation, you will not be as physically and sexually potent as a comparable omnivore.
>citation needed
seeing that erectile dysfunction is (organically) caused by restricted blood flow, arteriosclerosis (does not happen in vegans at all) seems to be the only thing that lowers "potence".
so it is actually the other way around.
I like that you finally made a decent point (of course, not on purpose, but a decent point nonetheless): smoking raises test levels, but is bad for your overall health. so, as a smoker, it would be easier to make gains, or to have a higher "potence", as you call it (test levels have very little to do with sexual performance though).
that is really the only valid thing in your entire posting so far.
yes you fucking autists you can get strong as a vegan...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qySRWjqctok
now go cry
>>36011243
The most important thing in sex drive is testosterone. No2 is nitric oxide and No3 is estrogen
Vegans who eat soy will have lower test levels as soy increases estrogen which in turn lowers test. Lack of bioavable amino acids will lower test and lack of lucine in vegan diets will lead to almost no protein synthesis which means no gains.Lack of cholesterol in vegan diets leads to lesss testosterone too.
Also are you seriously trying to say that ZERO vegans have ever had Arteriosclerosis? You have no idea what you are talking about, you should leave the discussion for those of us who are not complete morons.
>>36011282
Are you seriously using a bunch of nobodies as your evidence?
Not one world record holder here.Post best in the world or gtfo. Infact Vegan shill plz go
>>36011397
guaranteed everyone there lifts more than u, and patrik baboumian if u want a record vegan lol.
>>36011445
>patrik baboumian
HAHAHHAHAAHAHA
He did all that stuff BEFORE he was a vegan!!!
It says on his wiki page "Baboumian has been a vegetarian since 2005, and became a vegan in 2011.[1] In November 2011 Baboumian became the new face of a campaign by the animal-rights organization PETA, advocating a vegan diet."
His world records were " In 1999 he won the IFBB German junior bodybuilding championship, and in 2002 he became the overall junior champion at the Gießen Campions-Cup. Baboumian currently holds the world log lift record in the 105k-category (165 kg), as well as the German heavyweight loglift record (180 kg) and the title of "Strongest Man of Germany" (105 kg division). Since 2006 he has been competing at IFSA Strongman events. In 2007 Baboumian competed at the FSA -105 kg World Championships and ended up with a 14th place.
Since 2009, Baboumian holds the log lift World Record (-105 kg division). He lifted 162,5 kg in his second attempt in the German log lift nationals 2009. 2010 Baboumian also set a new German heavyweight loglifting record with 180 kg. 2011 Baboumian competed at the loglifting world championship and placed 4th with a new German overall-record of 185 kg. On 21 May 2011 he lifted 190 kg in Turku, Finland winning the local competition. 2011 Baboumian also won the title of "Germany's Strongest Man" by winning the open division at the German strongman nationals"
He has literally done shit since he became vegan. Your "proof" is literally proof of what I and many other have been saying. Vegan diet decreases strength and muscle mass. Try again you vegan shill!!!!
>>36011358
I don't understand why is soy thought of as only source of proteins for vegans.
Seitan is about 70% protein and you can make it at home.
>>36011358
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmBtmVM9hsw
>>36011358
>Also are you seriously trying to say that ZERO vegans have ever had Arteriosclerosis?
sorry, came out wrong. consumption of animal fats is the ONLY dietary risk factor for arteriosklerosis, so if you dont eat those, you did all you could dietarily to reduce your risk.
>soy lowers test levels
no it does not
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Bi5wbzpOHQ here the answer of the man about whom this thread is all about.
milk contains estrogens (that is why people who actually did GOMAD get gyno). chicken contains thalates. noone ever whines about those.
oh, and will we talk about how meat is carcinogenous next? cant make gains when you are dead.
>>36011632
its gluten though and has an astronomically bad amino acid profile if you use it as only source. it gets very effective though if you also eat beans or lentils.
personally I was as of yet unable to make it tasty though (if I make it myself).
>>36011580
according to study (somewhere on wikipedia) 0.5% of us citizens are vegan. 70% quit this lifestyle= about 0.2% of the population. how many vegan athletes are there supposed to be in fringe sports like bodybuilding or strongmen?
again, I point to my mock-argument about buddhism ITT. I don't think that you will find practicing buddhists in those sports. and there are more long term buddhists in the US then long term vegans. really, the only buddhist in strength sports that anyone could point out was frank zane, and that guy was ridiculously small for a bodybuilder. kind of proves the mock argument.
>>36011804
I'm eating exactly that. Seitan, beans and lentils for my protein.
Staying away from the soy for now, I don't trust them science people.
Seems like a lot of effort for a dumb cause.
eat some clams every one in a while and maybe you wouldn't need b-12 shots.
It's going to be really sad when it turns out synthetic b-12 isn't metabolized the same as dietary b-12 in the gut and thousands of Western vegans begin developing dementia and cognitive decline in their 60s.
Nutrition is a baby science and they don't really know the RDA and biomechanisms of 90% of foods.
>>36011804
You're implying that once the sacred knowledge that veganism leads to increased human performance is still in the infant stage and will one day be heralded by all as the way of champions.
I am here to inform you that millions of years of human evolution stand as a monument to the fact that an omnivorous diet is superior to a totally plant based one.
Almost Every great hero, statesman, philosopher, intellectual cultural icon, athlete, legendary person or creature I'm all history has followed an omnivorous diet.
Our human evolutionary and historical past has been the testing ground for all feasible diets and the verdict is that all cultures that have culminated into our western culture have partaken of and consumed animal products when available.
Historically the most intelligent, highest status and strongest individuals have consumed more meat than their subservients
Natural selection and the ability to reason resulted in man developing hunting and agriculture. They resulted in every stereotype about virility and meat consumption that you likely are familiar with.
Convincing the world to go vegan for athletic performance reasons is like convincing the world to cease use of written language or numbers.
>>36012064
I am not even sure if this is a trollpost or if someone actually is dumb enough to completely fall for an appeal to nature fallacy.
I mean, I heard that people actually do paleo diets, but I thought it was just for crossfitters.
wow.
>>36011632
Gluten lowers testosterone as it increases prolactin. No thanks
>>36011804
Wrong. Soy is absolutely awful for men. It has been shown to cause all sorts of sexual issues for men and lower testosterone. See following
http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/23/11/2584.short
http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/5/10/785.short
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7892297
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15735098
As we can see here all the foods vegans swear by are the highest in phytoestrogen
Flax seed
379380
Soy beans
103920
Soy nuts
68730.8
Tofu
27150.1
Tempeh
18307.9
Miso paste
11197.3
Soy yogurt
10275
Soy protein powder
8840.7
Sesame seed
8008.1
Flax bread
7540
Multigrain bread
4798.7
Soy milk
2957.2
Hummus
993
>>36011804
>consumption of animal fats is the ONLY dietary risk factor for arteriosklerosis
So the sat fats in coconut oil are magic and don't raise your cholesterol?
Am i saying being a vegan is bad?
NO
All i am saying is that it is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for a vegan to gain as much muscle and strength as someone who eats meat. Simple. It may be healthy but you WILL have lower test levels and you will be smaller and weaker than if you ate meat
>>36012851
do you eat chicken or drink milk? because those are worse.
>>36012064
You pretty much hit it on the head.
I don't understand why people insist on going vegan when we are genetically wired to consume both types of food by nature.
If you think about it, it all boils down to the subspecies of the essential template for carbon based life that we are consuming.
There is nothing inherently different about the two subspecies other than the nutrients that they provide. In excess or in cases of under-consumption, both can prove harmful to the human body.
Now that food is readily available, we can get our essential nutrients in whatever way we choose. Before, when we were hunter gatherers, or poor peasants, we ate whatever was available simply to provide ourselves with sustenance.
The argument that the consumption of one sole type of food is more beneficial than another is essentially comparing apples to oranges.
You can eat whatever you want so long as you provide your body with what it needs.
>>36013009
Both chicken and milk are gluten free and lets look at the phytoestrogen content of soy v milk
Soy beans 103920
Milk, cow 1.2
Arrrrr yes milk is so much worse.........
>>36004515
idiot
ITT:
"No vegans will ever be strong."
"This guys strong"
"Yes but he's on sterioids! Making him irrelevant compared to my steroid taking meat eating idols"
>>36013066
Bovine milk raises estrogen, progesterone and lowers testosterone though.
Eat all the meat you want but seriously, 2016 and you actually think milk is good for you?
>>36013150
Fuck no. Milk is not good for you at all and I avoid it at all costs. I am completely lactose free. And all the points you made about milk are absolutely true, which is why I avoid it
>>36013150
>Bovine milk raises estrogen, progesterone and lowers testosterone though
Not him, but do you have a source?
Unless it knocks you out of range it's irrelevant, and the same goes for soy; if anything it would lower your risk of prostate cancer but then igf-1 is linked to it and milks EAA content raises igf-1 a fair amount. I'm rambling, just post the source; I eat a decent amount of dairy and am curious.
>>36013192
Me above
This changes if you have RAW milk but that stuff is illegal pretty much everywhere. RAW milk is actually good for you whereas all the store bought stuff like old mate says fucks your hormones badly. Oh BTW it must be grass fed organic RAW milk.
>>36013258
So no source?
>>36002354
Composition of diet doesn't really matter as long as you're hitting your macros and your training is decent, next comes genetics. Legumes do a fine job replacing meats for lifters, 100g of chickpeas actually provide more leucine than 100g of eggs and there are plenty of high quality vegan fat sources. Also a shitload of vitamins, missing vitamins are cheaply supplemented mainly vitamin b. Shitting will never be a problem.
The only downside I've seen is the lack of dha which requires a shit load of plant omega 3s to convert. Still something that's correlated with health problems not really cause.
Not a vegan at all, I just don't see how anyone thinks people can't make gains on it.
>>36013434
Appreciate your honesty, if more meat eaters talked like you, it would keep some of my vegan ragers at bay
veganism would seem a lot cooler if every spokesman for it wasn't such an insufferable bitch
>>36013066
>let's look at the phytoestrogen content
Phytoestrogen is an important thing to point out. Plant foods have plant estrogen, which can either act like a very weak estrogen or actually block estrogen. Milk, although that number looks smaller, contains estradiol, which is many thousands of times more potent than plant estrogens, and obviously has no estrogen-blocking properties.
>>36013258
>RAW milk is actually good for you whereas all the store bought stuff like old mate says fucks your hormones badly. Oh BTW it must be grass fed organic RAW milk.
Go away, Weston Price Foundation
>>36007602
Holy cow
>credible source
Good one faggot. The lack of essential micronutrients is showing in the failure your brain is demonstrating.
>>36014588
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/2006/12.07/11-dairy.html
jesus, if you have no idea what you are talking about, just shut it.
the more traditional, the better, but it is never good.
>>36014625
>overfishing is totally not a problem guys, everything will soon go to normal!!!
>ad hominem
>wants a "credible source" that fishing is bad
how about google, faggot?
>>36014670
How about, instead of preserving the fish that will go extinct as another species pops up, we preserve the kelp forests that lie on the continental shelves before the euphotic zone of the ocean starts? If you knew what you were talking about, you would know those kelp forests are responsible for over 75% of ocean life. But no, keep complaining about the extinction of species, a completely natural process, and not the degradation of nature itself.
>>36010751
have you got any sources for your bullshit?
how can someone who eats animal products be healthier than someone on a plant based diet...
do you even know how much garbage they pump into the meat you consume?
im all for vegan hating, but this is just ridiculous.
why is gaining lean muscle your ultimate goal..are you one of these dumb fucks that will do what ever it takes to get "swole" for a couple of years then spend the rest of your life as a lazy fat fuck. fitness is a life long journey and gaining muscle is only a small part of that journey.
fucken idiots on this board.
>>36012926
Soy still has less estrogen than any animal product. If you're actually worried about consuming too much estrogen, what you would really be avoiding is meat and dairy.
>>36014711
>fish millions of tons of fish of a certain species out of the water
>completely natural
>>36014578
I think both the hormones in dairy and phytoestrogen meme's are overstated as fuck, maybe if you're still going through puberty or you consume gallons of the stuff a day it would have a significant effect.
