Don't you mean mental illness f4m?
no they should be in freak shows
Depends how mentally ill you are.
I'm a ftm transgender,and I typically see trans people who don't know how to dress themselves. I'm not saying I'm the pinnacle of /fa/ trans people, but I do better than most.
I think most trans people are too wrapped up in being victims and making sure people get their pronouns right to be /fa/ tbqh
>you cut that out now
What did he mean by this?
>>10651898
>>>/lgbt/
go to your containment board you freak
>>10651905
Shapiro refused to entertain "delusion" and deliberately used male pronouns, and Zoey Tur got a tad angry
>>10651868
why would he take an ambulance to his home? Thats stupid, ambulances take you to the hospital. They're not fucking taxis!
Example #629 of trannies being stupid retards.
Oh, and side-note: he does not pass as a woman at ALL.
>>10651910
I'd rather be a well-dressed freak than a freak that wears polos from Kohls and white sunglasses.
I like traps :)
>>10651905
The trannie decided the best way to prove his opponent wrong (that trannies aren't mentally ill) is to threaten him with bodily harm.
>>10651868
How come all these trannies use stupid anime names? Brianna Wu, Caitlyn jenner, Zoey tur.... None of these were common names for children when they were born, so it adds another level of absurdity onto the already insane setting of them pretending to be women.
>>10651925
Most of them don't want to be A woman. They want to be the ideal woman. It's about attention and feeling superior. That's why they all choose special snowflake fanfiction names and wear gobs of makeup. Ironically they say that placing people into gender roles is wrong, but to combat this they pick the most stereotypical ways imaginable to pretend to be a woman.
>>10651868
you mean 'go to the hospital in an ambulance'?
>>10651868
No it isn't. I especially dislike the media and tumblr making it look like gender dysphoria is ok. They should be locked up like schizos
>>10651898
How do you "know" you shouldve been a male if the way they dress and their mannerisms are social constructs?
>>10652028
Not hear to shove my lifestyle down your throat, I don't care what you believe. You live your life and I'll live mine.
>>10652335
Can you answer the question tho?
>>10651893
>>10651897
>>10651898
>>10651910
>>10651924
being ignorant is not /fa/
>>10652396
facts aren't ignorant
>>10652409
>>10651868
the whole "man born with a woman's brain thing" seems like a bogus theory to me. I haven't done enough reading to argue this in good faith, but intuitively i don't believe that shit for a second.
i just think masculinity and men's clothes aren't very relateable or desireable for a lot of men. Some men like to wear dresses and play with dolls and express themselves in a more feminine way. Some women like to work out and play cops and robbers and wear suits.
gender roles are a social construct so of course it's natural that you might want to be somewhere further towards the opposite end of the spectrum than is generally socially acceptable. I think that's cool though, and admire anyone who feels this way and sticks to their guns.
it gets weird to me when you talk about wanting to chop off your penis though. At that point it has nothing to do with gender roles at all, you literally want to pretend you're a woman. I definitely need to do more thinking cause i don't really know what i'm talking about, but that strikes me as a very unhealthy desire for a person to have.
it's like if you're 6'4" and you're uncomfortable with how tall you are. Wouldn't it be seriously fucked up if you got your shins removed or something to be shorter? Like i think we're really talking about body dysmorphia here, and i can't take anyone seriously who thinks insanely drastic surgeries like this are a healthy way to deal with body dysmorphia.
>>10652421
Yeah, but see he countered you being a whiny brat by pointing out biology, socialization, brain chemistry, etc... then told you to go to your safe space if you take issue with REALITY... So you rebutted with essentially:
>Nuh uh! YOU'RE A RACIST! GO BACK TO /POL/!!!!
This is the level of discourse you can expect from social marxists. They will happily let you win the argument based on facts and common sense(they simply cant counter it) but end with trying to slander you as a racist or something.
The fact that it actually worse, and in academic settings no less, is pretty fucking depressing.
>>10652447
>social marxists
stopped readin there, bud.
Reported for being off topic
Please return to the containment board from whence you came.
>>10652421
INB4 "HURR DURR GO BECK 2 TUMBLR" thought-terminating cliche
>>10652396
ignorant of what exactly?
Last time I checked, Zoey Tur doesn't have female sex chromosomes
>>10652549
Fucking commie do a favor to the world and be an hero
Autism thread
>>10652797
You first, Ricky Retardo
>>10652445
What I also don't understand is that the same people who demonize gender roles get easily triggered when someone even questions being trangender or transsexual.
Doesn't trans shit perpetuate gender roles even more since you're just trying to look or act like the opposite sex, and to do that you have to dress stereotypically like a woman of vice versa?
I think gender roles are stupid in most cases but I just don't understand this trans shit.
>>10651925
Anime has contributed to the popularity of mtf trans people. Boys grow up, watch sick Japanese cartoons, then decide they want to be just like the girls in their stupid anime shows.
I swear we should have dropped nukes all over Japan, just knocked that country and its culture out
with me being mtf trans I'm not a woman. I'm trying to get there but it's more like a goal for self improvement rather than the common "born trapped in a different body". It's kind of like someone working out to improve their self confidence, or at least that's how it feels. Some trans people don't take it seriously and they pull the victim card to excuse themselves from the hard work of trying to pass, and they become those people who bitch about cis privilege to make themselves feel better. That's what I've noticed at least
>>10652676
hey don't bring Beck into this he did nothing wrong
>>10652028
Because gender isn't entirely a social construct you fucking dimwit. Read a book. Some of gender is hormones and brain development, the rest is socialisation
It depends, I work with trans models and most of them are mentally sound but there's a rising issue with them bringing out the victim card to get ahead.
Feels bad because now I'm judging every single trans like they're a victim card abuser
requesting that picture of a girls tinder where she identified as a divine entity or something like that
>>10651868
fake women made even more annoying due to anglo culture
not /fa/ at all
I'm sure some of it is legitimate but let's not pretend a good deal of mtf's (the only trans people that get attention) aren't doing it out of some fetish shit or they're just straight up scared of masculinity
>>10652549
>stopped readin there, bud.
>IF I PRETEND IT'S NOT REAL THEN IT'S NOT
>>10652335
do you have female sex chromosomes?
transgenderism is just a modern meme, you'll find now examples of this bullshit in history. I challenge you to find me one transgender person before 1970
protip: you can't
stop lying to yourself
>>10654737
>no transgender people before the 1970s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Jorgensen
She transitioned in the early 1950s. Literally the first result on google :^)
>>10652396
this
also
why are /pol/tards always angry? do they hate their lives?
>>10654768
why are trans people always killing themselves?
do they hate their lives?
All life is biologically determined
no trannies are not /fa/ apart from maybe a handful at best until they hit 30+
lmoa
>>10652421
It shows a lot that the person who made this had to resort to misspelling words on purpose to make them sound dumb, but the anti-Tumblr one actually said more realistic things.
>>10654796
Yeah, because people like you bully them constantly.
Why can't we just be accepting of other people
Like really it's a concept that's so basic and it's beyond me that a large majority of Earth's population can't grasp it
Transgenders are people who are/were uncomfortable in their own skin. This goes beyond any issues a lot of 4chan neets go through, why can't anyone sympathize/empathize and just be nice?
No tumblr intended but holy shit. Basically just fuck off /pol/
>>10655084
nah it's because they're mentally unstable histrionics
>>10655100
Because they've been bullied all their life.
>>10655084
how come no other "opressed" group has a similar rate of suicide then
>>10655121
even in countries where they are accepting of trans people the rates stay the same
fuck off
>>10652445
>you literally want to pretend you're a woman.
no.. transpeople don't want to "pretend" to be their desired sex, they want to be their desired sex. whether or not that is actually possible is a different story
i agree with parts of your post though. i think sexuality/gender is a sliding scale. i fall squarely in the middle - i have nothing in common with my male peers and i never have, but i am straight. i dont feel anything in common with any of those people. i also dont really relate to females. i'm also very much not masculine - i'm beautiful, not handsome. male standards of beauty have made my life a living hell as a result. that sounds absolutely ridiculous but its true.
>>10654768
>why are /pol/tards always angry? do they hate their lives?
yes
>>10654796
>why are trans people always killing themselves?
>do they hate their lives?
uh... yeah? its not exactly an easy thing to come to terms with. especially if you're not born into a community with a tumblr hugbox mentality. some transpeople live their lives in denial of their feelings. wow i wonder why someone like that might be suicidally depressed hmm
>>10655127
source?
i think they have potential but i have yet to see a /fa/ one. right now i'm thinking the whole david bowie/lady gaga/lou reed/androgynous, sexual and outlandish thing - but i'm not sure if it takes a certain sex appeal to pull this off, and to me and to a normal person, transgenders have no sex appeal whatsoever.
why do /pol/fags listen to this jew again?
>>10651925
>Brianna and Caitlyn aren't super common as fuck names
-10/10 bait.
>>10652445
this shit is probably what I hate about the transrights movement the most. They think that being a woman is all about makeup and dresses and heels, which is basically a man's perspective after watching Legally Blonde and Gem for hours on end. Stupid libfems try to defend this bullshit while also railing against the patriarchy.
>>10652862
Yes, it perpetuates gender roles, because trans people think that
-being a man= muscles, mustaches, football, beer
-being a woman on the inside= liking makeup, heels, dresses, being delicate, long hair
when there's people who live their lives every fucking day without conforming to those things. I think the world would be a much better place for transpeople if we could, as a society, accept men who are non-gender conforming so that they won't feel the need to chop their penis off if they want to wear eyeshadow.
>>10655792
>>10655782
oh thank god, there's still some people with sense left in this world
>>10655823
Hey man, live and let live. If someone wants to dress in drag and do the hula, as long as their ass isn't in my face, what's the harm?
>>10655842
friend, i have nothing against your hypothetical hula man. the problem arises when he decides that he must "really" be a woman because only a woman would want to wear a hula outfit, and then proceeds to mutilate his body to resemble a female's while insisting that other male hula-outfit-afficionados follow suit
transgendered people just have a body that produces the wrong hormone, which makes their physical appearance wrong for who they are in every other respect.
that's literally all it is.
give them the right hormone, and their body changes to match who they're supposed to be.
people who don't understand this think that your physical appearance defines you. and should always define you. and that you should change your brain/feelings/emotions/soul(?) to match your external self. struggle for a lifetime trying to change who you are inside.
when instead, you can take the correct hormone and be at peace. finally feel whole.
i wish people wouldn't talk about something they don't understand.
>>10655842
I have no problem with transpeople. If a guy wants to put on a dress and lipstick, more power to him. I don't think that people should be victims of violence or social discrimination in the workplace/on the street for what they want to wear and how feminine/masculine they want to act. It's all fine.
BUT what I do have a huge problem with are MtT people constantly bitching and moaning at women to accept them as 100% women, no questions asked, when it comes to scientific research studies, conversations about birth control and healthcare, policy related to surrogacy and childbirth, and a million other things that concern BIOLOGICAL WOMEN every day that they can't have a fucking conversation about without being regarded as transphobic.
I spent a year doing operations management in the public health sector of a third-world country and ended up presenting some information about it at my university. Afterwards, I had a "talking to" by a transwoman who thought that it was problematic when I mentioned that one particular woman I worked. She was afraid of speaking to doctors without her husband around because she was afraid that he would beat the shit out of her in case they changed something in her daughter's medical treatment. If I remember correctly, I said something about how domestic violence is a widespread problem for women in that part of the world. And of course, I had to get verbally berated for not saying "female bodied people" or someshit. And there's a million people out there who have to deal with their reputation being damaged for not wanting to kowtow to transpeople's language policing needs.
I'm fucking tired of this garbage and having to protect their precious feefees. It's narcissistic and it prevents people in Western countries from having real conversations about what's affecting biological women abroad.
>>10655886
Oh yeah, I get you. That's the Tumblrshits that rule the LGBT community right now. They'll be ousted in 5 or 10 years once people have had enough of their shit and we can get back on track.
>>10655860
... and how exactly do you define the "correct" hormones?
>>10651868
trannies are mentally ill, if not for all the kikery in this country they would just be taken out behind the barn and shot in the back of the head humanely
>>10655898
their brain is wired for estrogen, but they have a dick and produce testosterone, or vice versa.
>>10655860
>transgendered people just have a body that produces the wrong hormone, which makes their physical appearance wrong for who they are in every other respect.
How do they know that they're producing the wrong hormone? If you ask a transperson how they "know" they're the other gender, they'll probably tick of a list of things like:
-I never liked barbies/I always liked barbies
-I only had male/female friends growing up
-I used to wear my mom's/dad's clothes as a kid
why does any of this indicate that they're "secretly" the opposite gender? There's negligible evidence that there are large regions of the brain that are different between non-hormone receiving MtF and regular men.
>>10655915
The vast majority of trans people just feel wrong. It has nothing to do with socialized bullshit like that, it has to do with body dysphoria.
>>10655929
Most people who are MtF do not get SRS. Studies like this:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/
also indicate a similar suicide rate pre and post op. Not all transgender people have "dysphoria" and people often conflate being transgender with being transsexual. The tumblr brigade constantly bitches about "truscum", or people who believe that you need to have dysphoria to qualify as trans. There are MANY MANY MANY trans people who do not think that dysphoria is necessary to be trans.
>>10655954
The other side of that spectrum are called transtrenders and are frequently dismissed as loons along with otherkin.
Fuck trannies
>>10655991
>>10655899
Yes we know you're incompetent and have no understanding of modern science. Your opinion is valued and you should definitely keep posting.
>>10655910
>"wired" for
could you describe the sexually dimorphic structures within the human brain that are primed to receive estrogen or testosterone and cause physical distress if deprived of such?
>>10656008
http://dana.org/News/Details.aspx?id=43520
That's a decent article.
>>10656013
ok. thank you!
>>10651924
lol you dweeb
>>10651868
Oh god that video was hilarious
>>10654768
>>10652396
>>10655093
YIKES
THE DEGENERACY
>>10656135
As i said before, you cringey little fuck
YIKES
>>10656228
i can do this all day.
>>10656003
>>10651868
>go home
>ambulance
ambulances take you to the hospital, not home
>>10656228
you're setting a bad example for children on 4chan who don't know you're trolling.
they may think your point of view is a healthy and legitimate one, and a spiderweb of hate will spread from here, across the globe, and across future generations.
pretty sad to think about desu, as transgendered people aren't impacting your life in any way.
just ignore them if you can't accept them and move on with your life.
>>10655892
yeah, but then you have things like Uncle Bruce winning the "woman of the year award" claiming that the hardest part about being a woman is deciding what to wear. Plus, there's Laverne Cox standing up for murdering pedophile rapists so that they can get hormones in jail.
Anyone who speaks out against this garbage is labelled a transphobe and doxxed by trans defense force.
>>10656380
aye, similar with feminism, black lives matter, etc. where i may agree in principle, but attacking every innocuous statement and perceiving everything as a slight...it just grows so tiresome. not to the point where i'm against them, but just to the point of apathy.
No, clothes never fit as well or look as nice ok a disgusting body
do ppl even realize that men and women both have estrogen and testosterone naturally occurring in their bodies?
all this "they receive the wrong hormone".... fucking lmao
>>10656644
Degrees, fuckass. Too much estrogen, and a man gets half-working bitch tits. Too much testosterone and a woman's uterus shuts down. The brain has hormonal needs too.
>>10656003
wonder if you tout the wonders of modern science when the link between race and IQ is brought up
>>10656678
ooh shit now u did it
>inb4 the science isn't right in that instance!
>>10656246
HAHAHAHAHA
>>10656685
IQ is based on a flawed test that values standardized regurgitation over resourcefulness and intellect. The smartest person in the world will appear stupid if you teach them garbage their whole lives, and white people get better education, statistically.
>>10656709
Have you ever seen an IQ test? They're flawed, but not for the reasons you've described (since they don't look anything like "standardized regurgitation").
>It's a mental illness
This is a position of ignorance. Careful consideration needs to be given when labelling something as pathological - not everything that deviates from a statistical norm is necessarily "bad" or "wrong".
Rather, scientific evidence supports the concept that gender dysphoria emerges due to hormonal disturbances during fetal development, resulting in a brain which does not identify with the sex of its body.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2754583/
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0018506X06001462
Which part of your body do you identify with you, as an entity the most: your gentalia, or your central nervous system? The answer is obvious - you ARE your brain, you merely HAVE genitals.
>>10656709
IQ tests don't assess your ability to memorize and regurgitate at all. which is why people with high IQ's can still be total dumbasses in their every day life, because while they have strong abstract thinking, problem solving, and pattern recognition skills, they don't necessarily have any real world knowledge.
think autistic computer programmers who can't name the presidents, don't know how to dress themselves, don't understand politics, etc etc.
>>10652445
>arguing a position purely from intuition
read a paper you pleb
>i've never read any research about this -- but here's my 0.02 any way
>>10656761
it's fucking 4chan dude
>>10656748
>your mind's development went wrong and isn't normal but somehow it's not a mental illness
yeah ok
>>10651868
>is transgenderism /fa/?
oy vey, I wonder who could be behind this thread
>>10656802
>went wrong
This implies that evolution/nature had an "ideal" state in mind that was "supposed" to happen. It doesn't, because evolution/nature does not have any motive, it is just a natural process.
mental illness: a condition which causes serious disorder in a person's behaviour or thinking.
Having a brain which identifys with a gender that differs from the body it contains is not ideal to anyone suffering from gender dysphoria, but it doesn't mean that their cognitive powers are disordered, or that their behaviour is disordered either. They don't hold delusional beliefs about reality.
>>10656709
well luckily we know that intelligence outside of IQ is genetic too
90% of people in this thread are fucking stupid psuedo-intellectuals taking super weak b8 l0l
>>10656823
>evolution has no motive
LMAO
>a condition which causes serious disorder in a person's behaviour or thinking.
that's exactly it. 30% of transfreaks off themselves even after having their surgery.
Trannies are fucked in the head more than just 'oh I'm in the wrong body'. There is no evidence that endorsing this behavior actually helps them or reduces suicides.
>>10656876
m8 your responses get more and more ridiculous. why are you here?
>>10656240
I'm sure you can.
Your argument isn't leading anywhere and you're proving nothing
>>10656246
>you're setting a bad example for children on 4chan who don't know you're trolling.
But i'm not :^)
The only little children i'm seeing are the close minded faggots like yourself getting their jimmies rustled
Go ahead and cry if it makes you feel better since you seem to be really sensitive
>>10656686
Literally nothing was even remotely funny.
Idk what you're finding humorous
Fuck outta here senpai
>>10656876
>>evolution has no motive
>LMAO
Dude, you've totally convinced me - I was wrong this entire time, but "LMAO" was the light that drove the darkness out of my tiny, ignorant mind.
See: The Blind Watchmaker, it'll give you the gist of it pretty quick.
>30% of transfreaks off themselves even after having their surgery.
Why do you think that is? I would likely say that social pressure plays an enormous role in this.
>Trannies are fucked in the head more than just 'oh I'm in the wrong body'.
So, you have evidence that says otherwise? Post it.
>>10656886
>is closed-minded about transgenderism
>calls others closed-minded faggots
and he says he's not trolling. nite buddy.
>>10656887
Your argument is laughable because evolution's motive is enabling individuals among populations to breed the most.
>Why do you think that is?
I told you in my post. If they honestly think they're a different gender, they're crazy. Facts and reason trump your argument.
They will always have different bone densities respective to sex, they will always have different amounts of muscle fibers respective to sex, they will always have different neurological pathing in the brain respective to their sex, and they will always have their original sex chromosomes.
Mental illness is going against reality because of brain abnormalities. That's what transgenderism is. You can type until your fingers come off, but that will never change the facts I just listed above. They will always be men or women. Always. It's right there. Facts are facts
>>10656905
>evolution's motive is enabling individuals among populations to breed the most.
that's not even how evolution works. jesus dude. finish high school or something.
>>10656903
But you haven't even heard my opinion about transgenderism and you call me closed-minded?
YIKES AGAIN
You just proved me right.
>>10656909
that's evolution
The whole process is based around whatever helps that particular individual breed more than others.
Were you that dumb kid that didn't take AP courses?
>>10656920
>digs a deeper hole
>>10656905
>If they honestly think they're a different gender, they're crazy.
Read these papers and reconsider your position.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2754583/
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0018506X06001462
The rest of your post is worthless rhetoric - baseless assertions and misguided attribution of identity to muscle fiber counts and bone desnity.
>Your argument is laughable because evolution's motive is enabling individuals among populations to breed the most.
Fully accounted for in the first post of this chain.
>>10656925
definition:
natural selection
noun
1.
the process by which forms of life having traits that better enable them to adapt to specific environmental pressures, as predators, changes in climate, or competition for food or mates, will tend to survive and reproduce in greater numbers than others of their kind, thus ensuring the perpetuation of those favorable traits in succeeding generations.
>will tend to survive and reproduce in greater numbers than others of their kind, thus ensuring the perpetuation of those favorable traits in succeeding generations
it's as easily summed up as whatever enables them to breed the most in that population.
>inb4 you argue with literal definitions
>>10656932
want to retract your statement that evolution has a motive yet?
>>10656926
why should I reconsider my opinion?
Different mental abnormalities also take physical presence in the brain and appear as abnormalities in brain structure. Just because trannies have differing brain structures and suffer mental illness as a result, doesn't mean they should be accepted and encouraged.
The best way to treat mental illness is to teach the person to live with it in a healthy normal manner.
>>10656939
>arguing semantics in an ego-argument
>>10656940
You should reconsider your position because you ascribe moral value to statistical normality - there is no nuance in your position. If this train of thought was examined with reference to differences in population genetics (and their associated enormous levels of variance), the consistency of its logic would falter even more considerably.
tl;dr statistical norms do not imply moral value, absolute or otherwise
>>10656956
yes, statistical norms do imply moral value
different cultures and ethics work for different types of people.
If there is a norm in a population, ways of acting and behaving should align to that norm.
There exists such thing as culture clash for when behavior doesn't align to the norm.
>>10656964
>Argumentum ad populum, appeal to tradition: the post
>everyone else does it, you should too
By your logic, if an asian child was born blonde, he should be rejected because it's abnormal -- or that the holocaust was justified because germany held anti-semetic, fascist values
The brain of a transgender person does not identify with the body containing it - because the brain differs in a significant, measurable way. You can label that as pathological - but it does not give you absolute grounds to invalidate their experience, or to view them as lesser beings.
>>10656992
does being blonde affect his mental bearing? no. It's just a physical feature with no links to mental aptitude
>muh holocaust
being jewish isn't a mental illness. being german isn't a mental illness. We're talking about mental illness in relation to social norms and if they should be encouraged or treated. Please stay on topic if you want to actually talk
>The brain of a transgender person does not identify with the body containing it
nor will it ever be in a body where it can 'identify' with. Ever. It's better that they learn to live with it as opposed to mutilate their bodies.
You can label that as pathological - but it does not give you absolute grounds to invalidate their experience, or to view them as lesser beings.
way to put words in my mouth. Strawman 10/10
is this /fa/?
>>10657007
>nor will it ever be in a body where it can 'identify' with. Ever.
[citation needed]
>>10657010
seriously?
can you transplant a human brain that 'identifies' as a female but was born in a male body into a female body?
let me shorten that question. Can you transplant a human brain into another body?
No, you can only put in fake tits, cut off the dick and create a nonfunctional in every way "vagina" and artificially introduce hormones.
>>10657018
You've stated an ideal which would be desirable to those with gender dysphoria, but not necessarily the absolute minimum required for many to identify with their body. Many transgender people do not undergo genital surgery as they don't experience any dysphoria in relation to their genitalia.
>>10657025
Except we are talking about gender dysphoria. OP's picture showed Zoey Tur who has had his penis turned into a fleshy hole. This entire argument is based on that.
And just because most transgenders don't have the surgery (maybe also because it's very costly and a physical burden to recover from) doesn't mean they are a-ok with having their physical appearance as it is.
You seem to be unable to stay on topic, so there's no real use talking with you.
Adios.
>>10656003
>u dont evn kno syinse!!!!!1!
>Doesn't post his "science"
>>10657392
this is me
>>10656013
There is my science. I posted it 4 u.
>ITT: Progressives try and defend their various mental illnesses and act like they're superior and special
>>10657404
>ITT: luddites bury their heads in the sand and refuse to see the light of the last 30 years of science
