Hey, DIY. This is my first thread here, so I apologize if greentext isn't the preferred method of explanation.
>Be me
>Buy an old car
>1950 Chrysler Windsor
>Shit condition, but I love the thing
>Didn't pay much; can't complain
>thislookslikeajobfordiyguy.bat
>Put in new battery (got a 6v, I'm not stupid)
>Play with knobs and dials
>Neat, some of this stuff actually still works
>Turn key
>Nodice.gif
>Not even a sound
>Wiring insulation stripped in some places, maybe shorting
>Realize that before going on an odessy to repair starter and related electronics, I should probably give the cylinders a look
>Spend a couple weekends tearing away at front-end of car
>reach engine
>unbolt head
>theanticipation.yml
>lift off head
>see this
>what
>>896803
1950's 6 cylinder cars are made of 6 briggs and stratton lawnmower engines welded together
Btw, that wetness in the pic in my OP is just WD-40. I've had the head off for a bit now, and I wanted to insulate against moisture. Here's a bit of moldy interior for anyone interested.
>>896806
Okay. Does that mean I can rob parts from my old mower? I have one lying around. It's a '97
>>896803
Wow what the fuck happened to that valve in the middle? And yeah that's some kind of fucked up backwards ass design.
You could probably get everything unseized and rebuild it, but is it worth it for like a 50 hp engine? The thing probably ran on leaded fuel too.
>>896813
It's a joke.
>>896827
The one that looks chipped? That's just a bit of carbon that chipped off; the metal is intact. In fact, I don't even know that the engine is seized, just that the starter didn't do anything. What worries me more is actually the fact that so much crap has fallen into the cylinders. If I try to crank the thing by hand, I risk scoring the cylinder walls. I guess I could clean them out if I pulled out the pistons, but that would mean somewhat of a rebuild. Is there any way to clean out the cylinders without a rebuild?
>>896830
Just joking along. I don't know *that* little about my engine.
>>896827
What's wrong with it having run on leaded? Will it be incompatible with modern day unleaded? I doubt this thing would provide enough compression for engine knock with unleaded gas. I bet some Marvell Mystery Oil would keep the valves running smoothly too.
>>896831
I don't think hand turning it would do any damage. I was scared when I first started working on outboard motors, but when people talk about scoring, they mean bits of metal and shit moving at high rpm. My latest motor actually had deep gouges in the pistons where the aluminum came off and fused to the cylinder walls, there were deep lines in the cylinders from wear. It still worked.
I actually did a rebuild on it and swapped out parts with a less fucked up power head and it made zero difference in compression.
Get the motor into a huge parts washing bin and flush it out with cleaning solution, atf, antifreeze etc. Or wipe away whatever dirt you can and put some fluid into each cylinder one by one and cycle it to top dead center to push the crud out.
>>896827
>Wow what the fuck happened to that valve in the middle?
It was burning coolant for a long time, leading to those deposits.
>And yeah that's some kind of fucked up backwards ass design.
...
It's called a flathead. They were the most common engine type until about the mid 50s when everyone went to ohv.
>>896842
Sounds like a good idea. I guess I'll see if I can turn it by hand then. If so, I'll clean out each cylinder as the pistons reach the top. Otherwise, yeah, I guess I'll have to disassemble entirely and clean.
While I've for you, how would you approach the water channels? They've been sitting stagnant for probably 40 years, and are clogged with gunk.
>>896831
When I replaced the head gaskets on a much newer (~1995) engine, it kind of looked like the OP picture, despite the fact that it still ran beforehand. It's kind of amazing how much shit can get into stuff and it'll still work. I say just rebuild it for fun, if you have the money and time for it. An old engine like that probably wouldn't be all that difficult provided you can find all the parts you need.
>>896857
Heh, well at least I've got time. Money is another matter. I only paid around $360 (and a bike) for this car, and sort of with the attitude that it would be a good learning experience at the very least. Glad to hear you were able to get something looking like this to run. Here's another pic of the car.
>>896849
>Burning coolant
Don't scare me like that, anon.
>>896803
Did you even turn it over by hand?
Did you REALLY take a car thats been sitting for 40 years and try to blindly start it?
Jesus christ
>>896841
No it will not.
Luckily, you can buy additives to put into gasoline
>>896892
I bet he is going to have one hell of a time trying to clean out the whole fuel system.
>>896894
I wonder what the carb looks like
>>896894
It's a 65 year old car. The fuel system consists of a gas tank, pump, lines, and a carburetor. It'll be a lot of work, but nothing I'm incapable of doing. Unless you're referring to the intake valves, in which case, yeah, that's gonna be a hell of a job, as the engine on this thing intimidates me.
More for you rust fetishists.
>>896895
Carb looks to be in good shape. It may be gunked up inside, but there doesn't appear to be anything wrong with it a rebuild won't fix. Pic related.
>>896863
Didn't have a long enough breaker bar or socket to do it by hand, and I had removed the carburetor, spark plugs, dashed some Marvell Mystery Oil in each cylinder, and put it in neutral. What else would you have me do?
>>896803
These threads on /diy/ can last for a month without someone bumping it before it prunes.
Whenever you do some work to it, post some pics and bump it.
>>896979
Sure. Will do.
>>896984
>>896979
Forgot pic
>>896909
At least op isnt retarded and lables his stuff..
Nothing is wrong op. It looks like theres lots of carbon build up. And switching to a 12volt system is pretty easy if you wanna stop using 6v.
Just replace fuel lines. And the carbs arent really that hard to clean... Maybe its cause ive done it hundreds of times. If you got a good question about actual part go ahead and ask. Straight sixes are my favorite.
>>896880
If you think a flathead is retarded, then maybe you're retarded.
The only real downside to them is that they don't flow air very well, seeing how air has to make at least one ninety degree turn to get into the cylinder. Most were never designed to make a ton of power anyway, so it didn't really matter.
The blocks themselves were pretty damn sturdy. That's the reason why a lot small engine manufacturers kept using flatheads up until the 1990s. They're usually designed to be rebuilt multiple times, meaning they have cylinder sleeves, replaceable valve guides, all that, no machining needed. Of course, if you get a flathead that isn't fully rebuildable...then there's no real point, toss the fucking thing.
I got a few tractors from the 40s and 50s that have flatheads, engines still running strong. Not uncommon for tractors like these to have the engine rebuilt 30 or 40 times over their life.
>>896862
Take the head gasket off and look for signs of leakage around that exhaust valve. It's usually pretty easy to spot.
If not, you maybe have a cracked head. New heads on flatheads are pretty cheap though, comparatively. Usually like 2, 300 bucks, way cheaper than OHV because the head is just a cap for a cylinder with cooling jackets.
After removing the gasket and some time spent cleaning, I took a few pictures to more clearly represent the condition of the engine.
>>897036
That's weird. It flipped my image over.
>>897039
And that one. Posting valves upside down now... Maybe that'll cancel things out.
Get something on the crank and try to turn it over by hand. Thats the first task to getting something like that going. Once its all moving freely I would definatly tear into it and see what the fuck years of sitting in a boomers back yard have done to it. Probably parked full of oil and its probably turned to sludge now.
>>896803
Cars this old often started with a button on the floorboard that manually pushed the bendix in. Is yours this way, OP?
>>897048
No. I believe the prior year ('49) was the first that Chrysler implemented the luxurious turn key starter that I have on mine. The brights are operated by a button on the floor though.
>>897047
I don't have a socket or breaker bar big enough to do the job yet. That's the direction I'm headed in, though.
But that hasn't stopped me from tearing into the thing.
>>896907
That's hot
>>897052
I watched a DIY guy try to un-seize an old motor without a wrench or special tools. He took the heads off, secured the block to a pallet or something, then used a large wood dowel in one of the cylinders. It was a chunk of fire wood. Then he hit said dowel with a sledge.
Basically it forced the piston to turn the crank. After about an hour of beating it with a sledge and only turning the crank 120 degrees, he gave up and left it out at the barn to rust back into the earth.
>>897106
He could completely fill the engine to the brim with really cheap oil and let it soak into stuff that has been bone dry for decades. And yeah fill the cylinders too.
Itll be gunky as fuck from the old paraffin oils they used back in the day.
Maybe the new oil with detergents will loosen up some stuff before he drops the oil pan and cleans the bottom end.
>>897114
By rights something that old should be stripped down to bare block and soaked in something strong enough to strip the oil off it. Covered would be ideal to ensure it can work into all the little holes and areas it needs to.
>>897052
>has big enough ratchet/breaker bar to get head off
>cant turn crank to see if engine is seized
>>897135
a wrench and a hammer can get the head off, probbaly needs a big socket for the crank pulley
This is an exciting thread. Interesting tips on starting and or turning over an old engine here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wYJ6RPfWBDg
Engine looks not so bad after you cleaned it up. Just let it soak, fill it with oil, get it turned over and work it slowly man, good shit.
>>896803
Classic car owner here. The engine on my Sunbeam Alpine was siezed solid from 21 years stood in a barn. Took the head off, couldn't turn it, so I set the block on fire. Pistons & block will heat up at different rates and will free it. Looks dramatic, but it worked.
Btw, no liability if you burn everything you love to the ground. Take precautions.
>>896841
Lead in gasoline was all about two things: increasing octane and more importantly, lubricating the valve to seat interface. Running unleaded fuel in this engine is likely to cause the exhaust valves to pound their seats down into the block, causing them to work loose. Modern engines have seats made of harder material to alleviate this effect. This problem is of course more prevalent in OHV engines with aluminum heads. Considering its age and condition, a valve job seems prudent. Check with your local automotive machine shop about having the valve seats replaced along with the valve guides and probably valves, springs, and retainers.
Bump for progress.
You could swap to a new v8 and autotrans. Buy an old car that ran but was in an accident?
>>896956
Considering the carburetor is full of 40 years old gasoline, you should probably give it an ultrasound wash.
Anyone try pinesol instead of carburetor cleaner?
>>897052
You may want to do as much as a rebuild as you can. Since you are already this deep, why not? You don't want to have to do the same job a year from now, or less.
Do as much as you can while it's open.
I just checked at rockauto.kom and they carry parts for your 50 windsor.
You're really not going to be able to re use any gaskets youve taken off, luckily most are less than 10 dollars each. Carb gasket is a flippin dollar. I'd just pick up a new fuel pump when you can, $60. They have a piston ring kit with oversize options to account for wear if you end up needing to re-hone.
I couldn't find a new starter on there, but you can service it yourself with new brushes and bushings. Take it off and get it tested, see what happens. Remove alternator and try to get that tested too, though it might be old to test using regular auto-zone tier benches.
You're probably going to have to replace all of your solid brake lines, tubing is cheap and its pretty fun to do with a hand-bending tool.
I've worked on a 65 chevy stepside that was siezed, ended up driving it daily. then an 87 240dl, 85 40, and 89 280z. All of these ended up getting driven regularly. All of them needed pretty much the same treatment too. Pumps, alternators, starters, master cyl rebuild, carb rebuild (where applicable), gaskets gaskets gaskets, and wiring harnes repair or replacement.
I'm gonna be monitoring this thread, feel free to ask any questions.
I found a mix of ATF and WD-40 will help loosen up a rust-seized engine abut half the time. Be prepared to wait a week or two.
>>897220
Some flatheads already had hardened valve seats. I know a lot of ford 4 cyl flatheads had them. Check and be sure before you waste money on lead additive.
>>899089
What works even better is 1:1 ATF and Acetone mix. It will penetrate anything.
A tip for removing all the rust off of anything or seriously corroded mechanisms OP - leave parts sitting in a vat of molasses for a week or two. Leaves parts looking like new, unless they're rotted, then it'll just leave a web of intact metal.
>>898765
>replacing any one of those valves
>my new nightmares
>>899478
That's a new one!
>>897006
How do you set the valve lash?
>>899877
There are access panels on the side of the block... just like on a side valve B&S.
>>897009
The other upside to a flathead design is that they can typically be welded back up and resurfaced.
Basically, you have 2 options:
1) Total rebuild: Remove engine from car rather than trying to free up in place. Figure out what's required for rebuild in terms of parts and machining. Get engine on a stand and start pulling apart the engine, removing timing chain, crank, cam, pistons and rods last. Label everything including the holes they came out of. Not sure if that was a babbit engine or not.
2) Get it running anyway you can: In this case, flood bottom end in penetrant (ATF + acetone), wait until engine can turn over by hand. Once it can, remove pan, completely dry out engine, refill with oil and see how it runs. Keep an eye on oil pressure and check compression to see where you're at. If this doesn't work, you're back to a complete rebuild (or engine swap.)
Pretty common for earlier designs. I have a 1942 Ford gpw with an L 134 ci four cylinder. The cam is in the block and the valves point "up" like op. You can get a lead additive for fuel. I run it in the jeep. Valves from that era weren't made with hardened steel, so the lead helped cushion the valves as they hit their seats. The lead additive suites the same job without lead.
Clean her up, put it back together, and fire it up.
>>896803
I'd say you do a Mad engine swap on this thing because this thing is screwed m8.
>>899142
You can also replace them with hardened versions if engine requires rebuild.
for what it's worth i witness an old guy get a rusted engine moving by attaching a wrench to the shaft over many hours he got a little bit of movement. He used a bit of oil and once the pistons were moving he dropped sand into the piston holes. The sand worked as an abrasive and removed all the rust. of course this method required a breakdown and rebuild of the engine, but was extremely effective way of clearing rust. I know you are trying to avoid a rebuild but don't think it is avoidable. Hope you prove me wrong or something
>>900227
get the engine turning.
thats all you need.
it's a fucking flathead.
as long as the engine turns, once you get it running, cylinder rust will be gone by 10 minutes
>>896861
Goddamin that is one hellowa sexy beast. Please dont ever paint it!
>>896803
>>Turn key
>>Nodice.gif
>>Not even a sound
>Wiring insulation stripped in some places, maybe shorting
No sound..
No clunk..
Solenoid is bad or power not reaching starter.
Connect battery directly to starter with jumper cables. You should get a clunk from the solenod engaging and bendix extending . Then you'll know if the engine is seized or no.
>>900891
Do not do this. I did this with an old motorcycle that's starter relay had gone out, the spark from trying to start it was large enough to rip the switch open inside and weld itself open. I could not get the damn starter motor to stop turning over, even with the kill switch on, and the key pulled out... only way was to pull the battery wires and in the process get the shit shocked out of me with a big ass spark.
Use a multimeter instead anon...
>>900628
Where does it gone to?
>>900933
it burns and turns to gas I'm guessing
>>900935
fuck this
>>898699
Yes, carburator cleaner is better
>>900930
That won't happen in this situation.
