This right here.
>>84527286
>Cage can't curse anymore in the new book
This Christmas isn't going to be very sweet, is it?
>>84527700
>This relationship will always play it safe
>All relationships between white characters end in disaster or cucking
Kill me...
>>84527286
The Hell it did!
Cage being a responsible parent who worries about setting a good example for his kid is what defined him as a hero and a moral leader to the New Avengers when the first Civil War run was going on.
What was he before that? A Hero for Hire. And a tiara punchline.
>>84527773
>>84527700
>Black Power symbol
>Essentially enslaved by his white wife
is that redpilled or no?
>>84527860
Unless Jessica represents feminism, but I always assumed Cage was suppose to represent redemption, or at least that's how I interpreted it.
>>84527855
>>84527900
His Thunderbolts run did the redemption thing pretty well without jessica trainwreck jones
>>84527860
>enslaved by his white wife
I'm not sure if that's hot or racist.
>>84527855
>Civil War
>Anything good.
It was a shit book for normies. But regardless, Cage was a lot better before have a former criminal trying to go on the right path, but struggled a shit ton. Also, he was the first person to ever discover Doom's one weakness.Doom's weakness was being punched in the chest repeatedly, apparently no one was ever dumb enough to try that before Cage
>>84527930
Ehhh, its more soul-crushing domestic disrespect type slavery
>>84527900
He's also a black power symbol
>>84527860
more like
>a superior opressed black man being married and acting like a new age husband by following the lead of his strong wife
>>84527958
>Ehhh, its more soul-crushing domestic disrespect type slavery
So marriage?
>>84527286
I wanted to say it made Jessica better but she doesn't even leave the house anymore.
>>84527992
She's getting a new solo, so maybe she'll finally do shit.
>>84527773
Are you seriously trying to imply BM/WF relationships aren't absolutely perfect in every way? That's pretty racist there, anon...
>>84528017
It's written by modern Bendis so if she doesn't do shit, it'll probably be shitty shit.
>>84527860
>enslaved
>>84527286
This is the best thing about them. Honestly its probably some of the best writing in marvel.
>>84528018
No relationship is perfect in every way. This isn't a race issue, this is a Marvel fearing it will be turned into a race issue issue.
>>84527855
>hating Luke Cage:Hero for Hire
>>84528017
>>84528030
Its Bendis. Nothing will happen. Slowly.
Why did Bendis decide to make Luke Cage a former criminal when he was never involved in such things in his original Power Man books? He was only ever falsely branded as a criminal, which was his burden to bear as a character.
>>84528047
Brian, don't you have like twenty books to write?
He was a lot more fun when he was single
>>84528047
>Best writing
>Implying classic Heroes for Hire wasn't their best writing.
>>84527977
>>84528120
naw man, naw
>>84527951
>>84528123
His actual weakness is getting punched.
>>84527855
He was Power Man, the mercenary superhero with a steel head band who faced betrayal from his closest friends and unjust persecution from the world around him, but always overcame his struggles even when he was isolated from everything in existence and felt punished for every good thing he tried to do in his life.
He went from being a lonesome, contemplative man who struggled with the true nature and meaning of his existence and faced underground paramilitary conspiracies, to a blank slate "role model" deprived of his entire iconography as a character.
Reminder their ideal selves have nothing to do with each other.
>>84528240
>He went from being a lonesome, contemplative man who struggled with the true nature and meaning of his existence and faced underground paramilitary conspiracies, to a blank slate "role model" deprived of his entire iconography as a character.
But then, would it really be a good idea to imply that he should struggle for an eternity, rather than eventually finding love and happiness?
From his perspective, he must see himself as moving up in the world. Being a rebel isn't a joyful existence. You want him to get his One More Day, and lose everything he built up in his life?
They were never the same after Wertham
>>84528307
Who is the guy who wants to be Cap?
>>84528509
Hawkeye
>>84528509
Hawkeye
>>84527286
Honest Question, why would Hawkeye date a girl who JUST dated a black guy?
>>84528609
He already knows she's into the cuck lifestyle.
>>84528609doesn't it depend on the black guy?
>>84528307
JEESUS Spidey.CHRIST, the thought of someone revealing what I believe to be the best possible version of myself to me or anyone for that matter scares the shit out of me.
>>84528609
um I don't see what's wrong here? I'm from neither /pol/ nor tumblr
>>84528343
He should have grown as a character to be something more than a blank slate family man that is removed from everything that he was before. Luke Cage should have developed his Heroes for Hire organization and step into greater responsibility as the leader of a paramilitary mercenary force, taking a page from Gideon Mace, who always wanted him to be his second in command in his paramilitary organization.
Clearly Power Man should have continued to step into the world of underground paramilitary organizations and the shadowy landscape in which they operate. He's a comic book hero first and foremost, he should be a mercenary commander before he is a family man.
>>84528609
Because he doesn't miss. Not even the G-spot. That kinda confidence allows for a man to overcome a lot of things.
>>84528702
>step into greater responsibility as the leader of a paramilitary mercenary force
He did in T-Bolts
![[frantic combination of snapping and falcon screams].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/EML0U8G.jpg "[frantic combination of snapping and falcon screams].jpg")
>>84528670
Bendis Cage = don't touch that ho
Classic Cage = consider it if she's a nice girl
Black Panther = probably high class but only approach if she doesn't have any weird jungle herpes
War Machine = has bad taste in men but it's alright
Falcon = you need to be an idiot to touch this skank cause she's been SNAPPED
>>84528307
So Doctor Strange missed being a Surgeon?
>>84528767
>War Machine
>has bad taste in men
How? Rhodey is likable.
>>84527860
more like Jessica represents a coal burners dream, being able to tame the "baddest boy their daddy hates"
of course these relationships always end bad
>>84528307
>Wolverine wishes he could have just stayed in Japan with his wife
;n ;
>>84528800
>coal burner
I see that you're from /pol/.
Well she didn't exactly have good experiences with whitepurplemen anon
>>84528784
part of him always feels like what would make him happiest is to just use magic to fix his hands, drop the sorceror bullshit, and go back to saving lives with science.
he was an insufferable dick back then, but he was one of the best surgeons in the world
>>84528798
+smiley black guy
+reliable
-has been iron man
-fugged carol, drops relationship stock almost as much as being with falcon
>>84528800
her parents are dead, and Luke isn't even a bad boy. His entire character for decades revolved around wanting to make an honest buck and having no time for grifters
>>84528691
No, but you're taking the bait.
>>84528735
>missing something that is literally 2 inches in
>>84528047
Agreed. Well, in so much as that's not particularly high praise. They, and their individual stories (and X-23 and Khaine) are what got me back into Marvel.
>>84528111
Bullshit. He makes it clear that he was a criminal, even if it was petting shit right up to muggings, and then decided to get out before he became a statistic. There was nothing noble in it. Not initially.
>>84528097
I like Alias, but that was funny. My sides.
>>84528689
fun fact: buried deep in his psyche is a part of Peter Parker that feels like his parents 'abandoned' him to his aunt and uncle because he just wasn't good enough
>>84528837
>bitch can't say anything and does only what she's told
Sounds like a great relationship to me.
>>84528757
Kind of, but he was a government stooge at the same time. I'm talking about him developing his own organization, the Heroes for Hire, independent from any outside interests and operating as a paramilitary force within the underground aspects of society. That's the vision I have for Luke Cages future when reading his original Power Man stories. I'm not even talking about him employing other superheroes, I'm thinking about him having henchmen soldiers from various military and civilian backgrounds.
He'd have his own facility where they would train, form strategies and missions and arm themselves. He'd have his own code of ethics that he would instill into his men, as they would often be faced with working alongside amoral forces and organizations as mercenaries. It just feels like the natural evolution of Power Man and Heroes for Hire, especially given his conflicts with Gideon Mace. Power Man acting as a mercenary hero is the most unique aspect about his methodology, and it's always the first thing modern writers remove.
>>84528945
Luke Cage in his original stories was never a criminal, petty or otherwise. He was framed by his best friends and spent his life falsely branded for a crime he was innocent of. It's why he changed his name to Luke Cage and assumed a new identity, as his old identity was taken from him.
>>84528986
You always project this amorality onto the character and shit's gay fanfiction
pic related would have been the ideal evolution of the power man character
no homo
I thought Marvel didn't do retcons
>>84528343
>You want him to get his One More Day, and lose everything he built up in his life?
Much as I hate it, its looking like they might be giving them just that in a manner, on the alter of Bendis, to fuel Jessica's new ongoing.
>>84528702
Arguably, that was where things were going. But endless events, and now a new ongoing for Jess, are going to put a wrench in that.
He married, he had a kid, he stopped being a merc and was the leader of an Avengers branch. That's some pretty sweet progression. Even now, he still has the family, and is on his way to having HeroeS for Hire back up as it used to be, which will likely end up the Defenders with him perhaps the leader when the Netflix shows drops.
Sadly, it looks like by then, he and Jessica will be splitsville.
>>84528941
DELET THIS
AUNT MAY IS NOT FOR SEXUAL BUT FOR BEING THE SWEETEST KINDEST AUNT IN THE ENTIRE WORLD.
>>84529108
Aunt May is a slut
>>84529162
*w-was
>>84529108
>canonically had sex with a fat old psycho
Slut.
>>84528889
Luke Cage, at least in his original stories, was always an upright man who identified with the sheriff heroes in the old Westerns that would play in the old Gem Theater he lived above. He fancied himself as a kind of Clint Eastwood style drifter in his early years as Power Man.
>>84529079
That brings a new dimension to "Iron fist"
>>84529104
I just wish Marvel allowed characters to exist in and develop their own unique individual worlds within wider Marvel universe. They would obviously all be connected in certain ways, but each character should have a setting that feels unique to who they are as a character. Most writers seem like they actively try to remove the aspects of each character that really make them different.
The ideal would have been to see Heroes for Hire grow from a one man operation run out of an old movie theater dealing with low level street crime, seeing Luke become more and more successful at what he does and expanding to eventually form an international mercenary force that is hired by influential powers in the world for serious geopolitical conflicts.
Being an Avenger is cool an all, but everyone is an Avenger these days. Very few are mercenary superheroes.
>>84529259
There is a new dimension to Iron Fist though
Early on Luke Cage was the dominant character. He had all the rogues, he had the setting and premise, he was more compelling and despite the neat plots Fist got he was a tagalong in the grand scheme of things
But now, the roles have reversed. Black family man has just dicked around with the Avengers and his bland bendis family for over a decade while during that time has had at least one run reinventing him as the scion of made up kung fu dimension with investments into that world and cast of characters rather than it being a throwaway line. Mind you it's not been very good since the first IIF run but he is in a much better place right now creatively than Luke Cage in terms of 'what can you do with this dude'
>>84528123
>My armor can withstand God's fucking Wrath
>But I can't take getting stabbed/smashed in one spot a bunch
>I hope that nobody in the marvel universe can do that!I realize he would also be killing them at the same but but fucking still.
>>84529079
Acting as a mercenary isn't amoral inherently, it just creates the context for interesting stories that deal with the nature of morality. Power Man has always been at his most poignant when he is brought to face a situation in which he has to act out what he knows in his heart is right or what will fulfill his contract and make him money. Being put in those situations through the jobs he takes should be the core dynamic of most of his stories.
>>84529318
His family makes him stagnant as a character unless they get killed, but then he would just be written as a depressed, empty soul. Bendis just took away everything Power Man had built in his life and reduced him to a fixture in Jessica's life.
>>84529031
Either you have a bad memory, or you haven't actually read the original stories. Here's a page from the very first issue, where he recounts being a petty crook from childhood, but deciding to turn his life around - while Stryker got deeper and they met Reva.
So, I'll repeat. Bendis didn't give him a background as a criminal. He already had it and never got arrested, even if they focused on the time he did get arrested for something he didn't do.
>>84529311
This is very much you feeling betrayed your fanfiction didn't come to be.
>>84529426
those who can, do. those who can't, nintendon't
![[Frostii]_K-On!!_B-Side_Theater_-_Uraon!!_-_9_[D3B356B9].mkv_snapshot_02.21_[2016.03.08_23.34.42].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/KNY4H7g.jpg "[Frostii]_K-On!!_B-Side_Theater_-_Uraon!!_-_9_[D3B356B9].mkv_snapshot_02.21_[2016.03.08_23.34.42].jpg")
>>84529396
>babby dies by accident or murder or something i don't care
>divorce
>becomes edgy black mercenary man is a prick and does things only for money
>earns his heart back throughout the run and stops being a dick and needs to let the sorrow go and move on like he's done before
>new status quo of nice mercenary man who now has some darkness in his past to bring up if someone not retarded wants to use it to portray the character in a certain light
Boom
>>84529079
>>84529465
>>84527286
>>84529424
Even in this, it's Willis who's committing the crimes. Luke is just a fighter, a Warrior style street gang member who's representing his territory. He always had a sense of honor
>>84529454
I could see it. It just might work in the right hands.
>>84529426
>>84529442
I'm like this with most characters honestly. I just develop this vision for what they could have become if they were allowed to truly grow and develop as characters and concepts, and these visions never get fulfilled.
>>84529396
Seriously? If anything, Jessica became a fixture on HIS life, due to them having no idea what to do with her after she gave birth in Pulse and her run ended.
He was the one involved in Secret War, leading the New Avengers, a vital part of the team in Civil War, and even stuck to his guns and leaving his family behind in the Skrull plotline, turning out to be right in the end. Hell, right now HE is the one in All-New Power Man and Iron Fist.
Jessica got small roles and cameos in other books, a short story in the 75th, and it looks like they are hitting the self-destruct on her life to give her an ongoing.
It's going to be painful to read, but it will please all parties if she does break up with Luke. Jessica fans like me get an ongoing rather than having to see her for like two panels in random books, and you get Luke single again, no longer tied down.
The cost is just a milder repeat of One More Day, potentially destroying one of the few actually happy and normal marriages Marvel still had going. It's bittersweet.
>>84529424
>Both on the run from the cops. Luke interested in how much stolen money THEY BOTH have.
>only way of life WE knew.
>better WE got.
>last bloody rumbles, I began losing heart. sick of always fighting.
Dude, sure they put the visual focus on Willis, but it's clear they are both in it together, as brothers, with Luke pulling his weight. I'll leave it at that. I can't do more than post the page that spells it out.
Hell, it's part of why I like Luke. He decided to grow up, and be a better man. Your way he was just a weak tag along who din du noffin.
>>84529583
The life of a superhero isn't a life of normalcy and stability. It's a lifelong commitment to conflict and the bizarre.
The only couples that should work in a superhero story are power couples like Black Bolt and Medusa
>>84529496
Oi, you talking shit about Iron Fist, faggot?
>>84529655
Was meant for >>84529534
>>84529659
True, but Jessica is pretty dedicated to not being a super hero. It's a massive part of her character. She wants to be, dreamed of it, but found peace as a mother and wife. Or at least she was supposed to. It's why she is always looking after Danni in the newer comics. Why she states several times across her own run that she doesn't actually like fighting. She prefers 'normie' means of getting shit done. It's why her new ongoing is Alias again, and not Jewel or Power Woman. She might moonlight, but she is the 'normal and troubled woman who happens to have powers'.
Luke is supposed to be the one with the metaphorical wandering cock, who can't keep his end out of hero shit. Even then since they left the Avengers, it's been purely street level, and Danny is the one who got him into the majority of it.
Their marriage could have worked. It was working, for a decade. But Jessica has jumped from 'break out oneshot' character who happens to be a powerful writers pet, to 'Daredevil'/High B-List in due to the Netflix show. Time for her to get a one-shit and a status quo that isn't going a stay at home mom and content wife.
Shit's harsh man.
>>84529783
>one-shit
Heh, i mean ongoing.
>>84529655
>>84529680
It's kind of like the Caine and O-Dog dynamic in Menace 2 Society. Or maybe the Q and Bishop dynamic in Juice. Either way, Luke was always more interested in fighting and representing his neighborhood than stealing. Willis and Luke reflect one another, the righteous man and the wicked man.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz2p5nk-X-E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj2hBPsoNpg
>>84529814
I also distinctly remember reading a page of an old Power Man story in which Luke is contemplating his identity as Power Man and he comments on not having committed crimes before he was falsely incarcerated.
>>84527286
98% of all comic and cartoon "relationships".
>>84529783
Honestly, this is why I deeply dislike Jessica Jones as a character. It's just Bendis's vehicle to insert the sitcom esque mundane reality he revels in into a fantastical world of superheroes. It's clear that he doesn't even really like superheroes, he just likes the mundane drama of average society.
This right here pretty much invalidated any character development either of them had for the sake of appealing to the SJW crowd when it didn't make any sense at all.
>>84527922
you realize he was married to her during that right?
>>84529814
>>84529871
...then why was he running from the cops with Willis, and asking how much cash they had? If he was so righteous, why let Stryker knock out and rob the store owner? You think he stopped Stryker from using those fucking knives he was getting so good with?
>What is theft and aiding and abetting.
>Aiding and abetting is a legal doctrine related to the guilt of someone who aids or abets in the commission of a crime. It exists in a number of different countries and generally allows a court to pronounce someone guilty for aiding and abetting in a crime even if they are not the principal offender.
Hell, never mind. The power of retcon and trying to ignore past writing that makes a character look bad is strong with this one.
He clearly din do nuffin, and was a gud boy.
>>84529939
Haven't got to that part yet. But the shitty love triangle with Mako was the most boring throwaway thing in the history of stories.
>>84529922
Fair enough. For me, it's why I like her. She straddles mundane, while keeping far enough into the capeshit, to offer different stories than you would get with (say) either Captain Marvel or a Betty Brant one-shot. The storyline with Mattie Franklin and the Mutant Growth Hormone. Being normal enough to be part of the paper staff and intimidated by Osborn - right until the berserker rage where she smacks him with his own glider.
I also felt that Luke going after Green Goblin was a pretty strong character moment too. Cathartic.
But I can totally see how you would dislike her for the same reasons.
>>84529814
I've posted about this before, but one motif of the original Power Man's mythos I've really come to enjoy is his enemies often emulating snakes or cold blooded creatures, like Willis Stryker, Cornell Cottonmouth and Mr. Fish. It evokes the same kind of feeling and imagery as Conan the Barbarian when he is acting as the smasher of the snakes of Set in the world. Power Man has that same kind of Nietzschean "will to power" mentality in a lot of ways, especially in regards to his steel iconography, with his steel headband, gauntlets and chain belt.
His snake villains are usually the more slimy and morally duplicitous aspects of the world he lives in, those who are involved in exploitation and criminal trafficking enterprises, reflecting the darkest end point of the mercenary world Luke dwells in. It's with these villains that he faces the moral implications of operating for money, of what it could lead to. Overcoming these snakes overcomes these temptations within himself.
>>84529783
>Their marriage could have worked. It was working, for a decade. But Jessica has jumped from 'break out oneshot' character who happens to be a powerful writers pet, to 'Daredevil'/High B-List in due to the Netflix show. Time for her to get a one-shit and a status quo that isn't going a stay at home mom and content wife.
Can't she just, you know, get a babysitter? She is almost certainly going to get married to Cage in the Netflix story anyway, so it would make no sense to tear her marriage apart in the comics when that isn't where the Netflix is going.
Jessica's refusal to be a superhero should be the main conflict. She can keep her marriage, her husband and her child. It is not difficult for her to end up becoming a superhero despite still having all that. If she loses her family, it is more likely for her to be reverted to a drunken hobo than to ever be Jewel again. If anything, Cage should be the one who kept supporting her and borderline pushing her to get back into crimefighting. Cage isn't a civilian, he would WANT his wife to follow her true desires.
Jessica wouldn't become a superhero just by the plot taking away everything she loves. If anything, I believe she could only be a hero if she has people she wanted to protect.
>>84529954
He was born into a world of gang violence, like the Warriors or A Clockwork Orange. Like I was expressing in my other post, Luke Cage's morality is very similar to the moral ideology of Conan the Barbarian, who was righteous within the context of the world he lived in even when acting as a thief. This same thing applies to Luke, who was living his young life as a fighter. Stealing was just a part of their lifestyle, how they got by in the world.
I just never saw Luke as a criminal. He was always more of a righteous warrior for his people, even if his people were themselves low lives and scum who eventually betrayed him.
>>84530020
It's not so much the character specifically, as it is my deep distaste for Bendis and his entire style and mentality towards comic book writing. I even dislike his most acclaimed books, like his Daredevil.
He's the principle force in Marvel trying to foist this perception of the "real world" into the world of superheroes.
>>84528702
I'd rather have him grow into a community hero who left the mercernary paid for hire work behind him.
But I do agree that Bendis has made him stale.
>>84530185
>this perception of the "real world" into the world of superheroes
I thought Stan Lee and Jack Kirby did that? They made Marvel more grounded and "world-outside-your-window" than DC.
>>84530214
That's the kind of character development that only serves to slowly remove what makes Luke Cage a unique and interesting character in favor of him acting as a sock puppet for simplistic moral values who eventually would just become a lame mascot type of figure in a neighborhood.
Vigilantes need to be motivated by so much more than a desire to protect a community or save the weak. There needs to be some intrinsic desire in them to effect change in society, some vision that they want to fulfill in alignment with their ideology. A vigilante is appointing himself with authority above and beyond what is deemed acceptable by common society, and this will set them apart from average people.
>>84530234
Stan Lee and Jack Kirby created stories that made the fantastic feel like reality, where Bendis writes stories that make the fantastic feel like reality.
Besides, Lee and Kirby, especially Kirby, were both deep into wacky occult stuff, which created a much different sense of reality in their minds than the reality that is conceived by Bendis.
>>84530416
Shit, I meant to say that Bendis writes stories that make the fantastic feel like the mundane.
>>84529887
Why is it that comic book relationships are more often than not poorly written?
>>84528030
I trust Bendis with Jess. She's his after all.
>>84527855
You can improve a solo character without tying them down with wives and babies. It's really quite simple.
>>84530673
That always seems to be the go to though, especially with women. I don't understand it.
>>84530629
Reader expectations for a book's tone. That's your answer.
It's as much the reader's fault. They pick up Avengers or Spiderman expecting adventure again and the damned thing is meant to be read at a slow pace with a sense of whimsy. The writer's mistake was in not setting up expectations for the shift in the issue's mood.
The only comic ships that readers latch onto (and thus validate before reading even starts) are the ones where the romantic interest is always characterized in the same lighthearted or intimate manner. They're given the best lines in order to be thought of as funny, or they're often shown being tender/nurturing/a big softy... etc... etc...
That way just them being in a panel with the lead is a signal to the reader that the story's now about romance and not alien invaders.
It's all about expectations.
>>84530840
It seems like the expectations and whims of a stories audience base always becomes it's biggest obstacle on the path to good story telling.
>>84530878
Well yeah, think about how a comic you read and like seems just a bit worse after you've been on a thread reading the shitposts about it.
You always go in with expectations in some form or another, and comics are a medium that require audience participation in the form of imagination.
>>84527773
>This relationship will always play it safe
with bendis around? you better believe. thats why miles will be lame until someone takes him away from bendis
>>84527930
Is it hotter if she does it while wearing a green jumpsuit, yellow bandana, and gives him her Fist of Iron?
>>84528865
>+Smiley black guy
But, Luke Cage is your Husbando!
>>84529814
I think there's a cultural difference at play. He might be seen as an honorable warrior to you, but I see a Mike Brown kind of violent thug.
>>84531283
I think I just have a different conception of honor than most. It's honorable in the same way that Conan is honorable in a Nietzschean sense, crushing his enemies, seeing them driven before him and hearing the lamentation of the women and all that.
>>84531327
Different cultural context. I have different expectations for Conan or Usagi yojimbo. Luke cage on the other hand lives in modern, or at least 1970's NYC.
>>84531762
All of them exist in a similarly lawless, kill or be killed landscape
>>84530673
>You can improve a solo character without tying them down with wives and babies. It's really quite simple.
Having a wife and child would only give a man more reasons to be a hero, not less. And same with Jessica as a mum. If there was a world ending threat, or even just a major crime wave, a parent would want to do what he or she could to make sure their child would grow up in a safer world. It makes no sense to say that superheroes would abandon their duties in order to be parents. And for Jessica in particular, she was not that good a superhero when she didn't have anyone to fight for. To take away her family now is not going to make her any more willing to be Jewel or Powerwoman or Alias. Jessica needed support, having her family around should HELP giving her motivation.
>>84531808
Conan, yes. Feudal Japan has the rules for the shogunate, but close enough. You've lost me when you're talking about NYC though.
>>84527700
>>Cage can't curse anymore in the new book
Wait, is that why this strip was done?
>>84528837
>from /pol/
I see that you're a faggot
>>84527286
>white woman
>black man
when will this fucking cuck meme end
>>84532046
You are aware that most couple aren't mixed in the world of fiction. why does it trigger you when some are?
