>not even the biggest Marvel shills on CBR defending Civil War II and Marvel Now
What went wrong?
They got overconfident and lazy, and assumed that people would eat up everything they shit out.
Tumblr likes it.
>>84463684
Wait, I thought tumblr!tonyfags DIDN'T want him to suffer? Are they really that masochistic?
>>84463684
>tony mad because carol wants to protect and defence people
Why do people like this
>>84463769
hurt/comfort is Tumblr's bread and butter. why do you thin there's so much art of hot guys all bloody and bruised?
>>84463769
No, you see, seeing characters suffer makes Tumblr girls awwwww
>>84463684
Time to hate it.
>>84463769
This the uwwuuuvvv tumblr fangirls and tonyatans just loving the drama, they don't care about the plot being shit.
A lot of comic readers in tumblr think this is bs
That said Tony crying and saying Bruce is his friend doesn’t sit well with me, he fired him into space and left him gor dead like nah fuck that science bros shit.
>>84464189
>This the uwwuuuvvv tumblr fangirls and tonyatans just loving the drama, they don't care about the plot being shit.
They write fanfiction for this shit.
They became overconfident and relied on their rep and the movies to sellfor them. Additionally they don't learn lessons from their failures. They try to push diversity but very few of their diversity books do well because only a few of them have a creative team that give a fuck
>>84463684
Tumblr is pathetic
>>84463354
They killed banner, fuckin dropped!!! Let's burn it to the fuckin ground!!!!
I think the problem is, the different worlds of Marvel don't actually gel. Iron Man doesn't make any more sense in the X-Men world than he does in the Batman universe. In fact, it probably makes less sense.
In any worthwhile, valuable comic you go in depth with the characters. Kinda hard to do that when you puke every superhero you have into one comic.
Also, when you have a bunch of heroes of comparable power teaming up, it gets overpowered and stupid. We don't need a team of The Punisher, Daredevil, and Moon Knight - they all do the exact same thing.
Dream line up: Magneto, Spider Jerusalem, Hell-Boy, Daredevil. Why? Completely different specialties. Magneto would fight overpowered people. Spider Jerusalem would take down public figures through media. Daredevil would directly address corruption and crime. Hell-Boy would deal with the supernatural. One person per specialization. That would actually be interesting.
...okay, I admit, I don't know anything about Civil War 2.
>>84463684
The only place where the users read less comics than /co/
>>84463354
they let bad writers have too much creative control
>>84464678
I think the shared universe is fine, but the bigger problem is that Marvel stopped taking things seriously. Everything feels so meta and tongue in cheek that it stories have lost their direction. A lot of writers phone their work in and there really are no more goals left at Marvel.
>>84464666
>a character in a capeshit book is killed
Well fuck, they certainly will never be back, that's unheard of.
>>84463354
Disney
>>84463354
I like this Marlel meme.
Good job for once, company wars fags.
>>84463620
>and assumed that people would eat up everything they shit out.
This actually still has to be proven wrong. For all we know Marvel Nowest might still sell well regardless if people don't actually finally put their money where their mouth is.
>>84463354
>bad creative decisions
>Bendis on 6+ books
>3-4 other guys on 4+ books
>relaunching shit when it's unnecessary
>constant events
>>84463354
>Following issues of Iron Man already sold out
Absolutely nothing. Seeing as how it'll top the charts for the following months.
>>84463354
I will defend Ewing and Champions to the death and you can't fucking stop me.
>>84463684
Ah yes accountability for something you didn't do. Bravo Carol you fucking dumbass.
>>84463354
Retards took over since nobody cares enough about the comics to stop them because the movies are what bring in real money.
>>84470292
I don't want to believe that there could be so many people going out of their way to buy comics who not only accept but actually want what Bendis writes. Humans are awful, awful beings.
>>84463684
I look at that panel, I don't understand what's going on and honestly cannot bring myself to care.
>>84467150
Marvel was bad before Disney, why do people blame them for anything but synergy?
>>84470520
I still don't know whether Banner died from a head shot or shot to the chest
>>84470581
Because Disney is run by Jews, and Jews are by and large the most creatively bankrupt people on this planet.
>>84470614
the arrow went clean through his chest then turned-around mid-air for the headshot
In CBR they are wondering if it will end up being worse than Age of Ultron.
No one likes this.
>>84470641
....post proof because I refuse to believe this
>>84470581
Marvel didn't go pants on head retarded until a little after Disney bought them out
>>84470636
All comapnies are run by jews, nigga.
>>84470735
>until a little after Disney bought them out
So the bullshit that Quesadilla pulled with banning any character from ever smoking a cigar or cigarette again, or when he told comic shops to send in ripped up covers of blackest night and they would get deadpool alt covers in exchange never happened.
Comics are never EVER going to get a proper ending to their characters so that's why I just gave up on comics in general, anything capeshit related I just play vidya or watch movies/cartoons
>>84470804
This.
The problem with the comics is that they have to go on forever.
>>84470735
You are wrong. Disassembled or Civil War was the turn.
>>84470804
>>84471118
I don't understand this mentality. There's nothing wrong with "the adventure continues".
>>84471183
You get burned out
>>84471183
>I don't understand this mentality. There's nothing wrong with "the adventure continues".
There's nothing wrong either with just ending one story, and then starting a new one, from zero.
If you know it's going to go on forever, you just stop fearing character deaths since they'll always come back in some convoluted way.
>>84471209
How? You don't have to read everything.
>>84471183
Not everyone wants to adventure for 50 years.
>>84471265
Character deaths are not required to tell a good story at all. Nor is the threat of them.
>>84471280
Everyone burns at different rate. I was only reading Indestructible hulk and I still get burned out after 2 years.
Bad stories tends to accelerate the rate
At this point, I feel Original Sin was a better event than Civil War 2
>>84471352
I guess that's kind of what I mean. You can just read one or two arcs and take a break. 2 years is not necessary. You should not be forcing yourself to continue. That's a flaw in your own personal choice not something that should be projected on the continuous publishing format.
>>84471391
The only recent event I can think of that comes to close CW2 in terms of awfulness is AvX, and that was 4 years ago
Marvel is hedging their bets on legacy characters and re-inventing their universe to better match their films/what they own. They're doing a pretty good job attracting new readers, especially women and younger people, but the majority of comic book readers don't like change, especially not this rapidly. What Marvel is doing is probably smart. If comic books as an industry are going to survive, you need new blood and new readers.
DC is hitting it big at the moment because they're doing the opposite by pandering to the increasingly older comic book manchildren crowd. Not that I'm complaining. I love classic DC. It makes sense that Marvel would be more liberal and more concerned with social justice and the like. That's what they've always been about since the silver age. It's the fundamental difference between the two companies.
Personally I'm not too excited about the new Marvel Now because it's launching a bunch of new series I have no interest in and interrupting the stories being told yet again for ANOTHER status quo change. I guess I'm glad they're not starting every book from #1 again but looking at the list of Mavel Now titles, there's only 2-3 books I'm actually interested in.
Marvel: At Least It's Not DC™
Marvel should have just rebooted their entire universe if they are just shitting on the old character and replacing them with ALL NEW ALL DIFFERENT! characters.
>>84471599
Problem is they are putting out an event, what?, every year now?
The characters barely have time to grow into their roles before a new status quo comes around.
Remember when solo books went up into the 50+ issues count?
I mean staying fresh is all well and good, but how they go at it is stupid as fuck.
>>84471118
Only if you're a characterfag.
Needs complete reboot
>>84471650
Shitting on the old characters is how the new ones survive.
>>84471743
This, if they didn't shove in everyone's faces how great and perfect the new characters are they'd all fail instantly with the only exceptions being characters that are waifu/shipping bait.
>>84471285
You can just read the good stories and ignore the rest. If you're a stupid mutie lover, Bat, super or spiderfag, reading them serially for years or decades(no matter the quality) offcourse you're going to get burned out.
>>84471797
Rage baiting can only carry them for so long.
Sam got 5 years, and now Rich is finally coming back.
>>84471743
>>84471797
Maybe they should make creative new characters that can stand on their own.
>>84471953
They should, but it's very hard to make them catch on with no connections to existing characters.
That new Inhuman in the "Divided We Stand" poster probably won't be around for long.
>>84471837
wait fo' real?
>>84471707
>Problem is they are putting out an event, what?, every year now?
Six months.
>>84471953
What stands on it's own isn't up to Marvel, it's up to customers, and most customers are characterfags who wouldn't dare touch something not related to their favorite character in some way.
>>84471837
but will Rich returning be worth it without DnA at the helm? Marvel Cosmic has gone to shit since they left
>>84472011
Rich Johnson said he next Nova book was going to be about Richard.
Originally, k was going to disregard everything he said, but since all those Marvel writers freaked out at him, there could be some truth to what he said.
>>84471209
That's why comics used to be for kids where you got a new generation every several years and the older ones grew up.
By the time you got "burned out," you were 13 or 14, discovered you had a dick, and wanted a girl to play with it. What Batman was doing didn't matter as much as it did when you were ten.
>>84472046
I feel like they're going to intentionally sabotage him with someone like Hopeless so they can be like "told you so".
>>84472010
>>84472026
I think the bigger problem is that Marvel wants them to be popular RIGHT NOW instead of investing time so that people actually grow attached to them. It's pretty sad that in this day and age no one's willing to commit a lot of time into a character like years ago when, for example, Cassandra Cain came around and became Batgirl (yeah, legacy I know) but turned that title into her very own role and had and fuck long ongoing.
>>84471797
It's still kind of amazing that really bad new characters like Miles Morales continue to survive.
>>84472138
Miles wasn't bad when he was in Ultimate actually. He was pretty much carrying that whole universe by himself.
>>84463354
>What went wrong?
Nothing, I love how comic books tell me all of my socio-political positions make me literally Hitler and that personal responsibility is racist, as is wishing your favorite comic book characters weren't replaced with women and minorities in a cheap attempt to pander to leftists.
>>84470804
You just pick and ending: ASM 141, FF 102, Thor 179 ect..
>>84472056
>>84472100
We can only keep fingers crossed for the WAY off chance it's any good.
>>84472138
Sam is even worse and has abysmal sale figures, but Marvel refused to do anything about it
The majority has to be shit so gems like The Vision can shine all the brighter.
>>84472211
Even if sucks ass, I'll buy 3 copies of each issue and just not read it.
I've waited too long for this, and I won't let him leave us again.
>>84472082
Marvel letter pages are full of adults all the way back into the 60's
>>84463354
Were not defending it because unlike dc shills we dont just suck down company cum and smile like you guys did with johns shoehorning watchmen into maintstream dc cointinuity. Wed acknowledge how fucking unacceptable that is just like we did when thor lost his name to pure cancer.
See we don't just delude ourselves that it must be genius cos our company makes it. We accept good with bad.
Civ war 2 is shit. Plenty of other unrelated titles are not. Marvel now is another unecessary rebranding or reshuffling or whatever. Its idiotic and a cash grab. When it hits well like what we think is good and hate what we think sucks. Same as we always do.
Unlike you dc fags we don't just bend over for our cereal king and go nuts cos sales are high. We wouldn't make pathetic claims like "rebirth is amazing" when there are some good titles and some mediocre and some shit. Then afterward invade every marvel thread and crow about how everything but one title supposedly sucks.
But nope you guys get an issue of superman punching doomsday for an entire issue with zero substance and act like its the fucking kryptonian renaissance. You just got your company too far up your ass to not be its bitch at this point. But hey at least green arrow, aquaman, and nightwing kick ass.
>>84464189
>That said Tony crying and saying Bruce is his friend doesn’t sit well with me, he fired him into space and left him gor dead like nah fuck that science bros shit.
That is pretty much been ignored in favor of their movie friendship. So now he's his sciencebro and another one of his close friends that has been killed.
>>84464784
Banner is in a bit of a weird place. It's not likey are ever gonna make a solo movie with him in it.
>>84463354
Event fatigue.
Marvel had a thing that really worked for them, and decided to start doing NOTHING BUT THAT. As a rule, fans are stupid. Just not stupid enough that when they keep getting fed shit they don't eventually catch on.
I'm a Marvel guy, always has been, but the amount of actually good titles Marvel has been putting out is depressing, and the amount of attention given to bad titles and soulless crossover events that have no purpose but to convince their readers that they're BIG IMPORTANT THINGS THAT WILL CHANGE EVERYTING FOREVER PLEASE BUY ALL BOOKS AND TIE-INS SO YOU DON'T MISS A THING ensured that people just lost the ability to give a fuck.
The casuals will gobble it up as usual, see >>84463684, because they don't pay close enough attention to anything to realise it's just a big bland holding pattern, but casuals don't buy comics. They just repost "cool" panels on their Tumblrs and Twitters. Marvel's losing core fans fast and it's going to hurt them in the long run, especially if/when the movie money stops rolling in.
I really hope the higher-ups stop drinking their own coolaid, realise what's going on, and take steps to restore some sanity, but I'm afraid it'll take more than bad publicity before that happens. I'm also afraid that when it eventually does happen, they'll sooner go full panic mode instead of just taking a step back and looking at the big picture.
>>84470636
>Jews are by and large the most creatively bankrupt people on this planet
Well, after the Chinese anyway.
>>84463354
There are a lot of differences of opinion, but I'd say that it started back with the collector's market and the abandonment of children as the primary audience, especially for superhero books which were really tailor made for them. Once the industry shifted over to adult readers, the long slow journey into night truly began.
What we have now are a bunch of fans with an average age of 40 years old, still playing with the toys from their youth, and demanding that it all be tailor made to suit their interests. So you go to a place like Spiderman Crawlspace and soon find a bunch of sad sacks who want Peter to be married, with children, and possibly retired, since they desperately want the character to grow old and die with them. That was never the case pre-1990. Kids read Spider-Man, and then gave it up just as a new generation came in. And for them, Peter was completely new. So it was a formula that worked. The fact that you also have middle-aged fanboys who basically took over the industry and are living out every piece of fan fiction that ever passed through the brains ("Let's kill off Bruce Banner!" "Let's make Spider-Man a black kid!" "Let's make Iron Man a black chick! And a 15 year old black chick at MIT! That would be so COOL! And like, PROGRESSIVE!") doesn't help matters either. But at the end of the day, they have been rewarded for every repetitive "event," ("Hey guys, who can we kill now?"), every second rate replacement character, and every mind-numbing, atrocious idea that they've ever thrown out there. Because the current readership, even though it is aging, will never be able to stop their buying habits, since it's roughly akin to addiction to drugs.
To paraphrase Frank Zappa, "Superhero comics are now penned by people who can't write, focusing on characters created for kids, in order to provide stories for adults who can't read."
What went wrong? The readers went wrong. And we are still going wrong to this day.
>>84472310
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Remember GotG? Can you spell "beter off dead"?
>>84471599
I would have no problem with change, if I knew it was going to stick around. If I knew that Tony Stark was gone for good, then every story leading up to that point would be interesting because there would be real stakes for the character. But this? I know Stark will be back in two years, at most 5. Whatever change Marvel makes right now, for good or for ill, will just be reversed when the status quo comes knock-knock-knockin on the door right around the time of the next movie, and everything will be the way it was.
>>84472700
...and I know it seems like I can't, myself, but it's my keyboard going through bad times. Honest.
>>84463684
>Tumblr not just reading one panel and saying they read comics
Alan Moore was right
>>84472082
>getting burned out that early
>not wanting Batman to play with your dick
What are you gay
watch as Marvel sales continue to surpass DC by a mile
"we" just don't matter anymore, we aren't the target demographic
>>84473304
I thought DC was killing Marvel in terms of sales?
>>84463354
Anyone talking about The Vision that just came out? I read it and the feels... I kinda want Vision to burn the world and kill everyone.
>>84473604
dude marvel has over half the marketshare whereas DC is only at about what like 27%?
>>84472447
>>84464189
That was old Tony, realizing that he had become the villain and didn't want to live anymore, but that the world needed an Iron Man, Tony erased his memory and basically killed himself so that his friends could upload his consciousness he saved before extremis happened into his body. Basically he rebooted himself and restored the mind he had when he was only a hero and not a tyrant.
This Tony Stark only remembers the good times before the Illuminati decided to shoot hulk into space.
>>84473304
Comic fans aren't your audience anymore
Comic fans are over
Comic fans are dead
>>84473604
>>84473696
Marvel puts out twice as many titles as DC and only has 10% more market share
>>84473730
wow what a shitty handwave to put his halo back
I'm going to do a series polls for All-New All Different Marvel to sort of get a consensus of where everyone feels on each comic, find the best of them before Marvel NOW comes out
Would you think it a good method to start with a poal.me listing every comic released on ANAD, roughly 70-80 with allowing multiple options to be picked, to create a general view of them all before breaking them up into brackets for comparing two at a time ordered by seed?
Because with how much money they make from the movies, what's the point in trying with the books no one reads anymore?
>>84471285
this, basically
Maybe if the stories and settings changed every so often, but that's not the case. It's been fifty years of the same same shit.
>>84471307
Death cannot be avoided when the setting centers around superpowered people fighting one another to save/destroy/rule/change the world all the time.
>>84474067
i'd say it probably can, just dont have characters die
>>84474163
What then? Send them to the Shadow Realm?
>>84474187
i was just thinking not kill people. after all, this is escapist fiction.
>>84474236
Or at least not have the heroes kill each other, holy fuck.
The actual villains of the setting must be laughing their asses off.
>>84463684
This just needs to end with Vision ripping Tony, WThor, FalCap, and Carol's heads off.
>>84472397
>Abbreviating "Because" as "cos"
So how are they going to bring Bruce back this time? I'm still betting on "the last issue reveals the whole thing was a Ulysses vision and they stop it all from happening"
>>84475193
seems plausible though it does mean that they had a vision within a vision at some point
>>84472700
I don't think the GotG has the same threat looming over their heads like Richard does.
The second his sales slip up, Marvel will be ready to throw Sam back at us.
Bendis tried making his waifu the lead for the GotG, and that didn't last anywhere near as long as Sam.
>>84473771
Far better than keeping him forever a dipshit, and unpunished. I'm still mad they never gave Reed and some others the same courtesy after civil war.
>>84475630
>I don't think the GotG has the same threat looming over their heads like Richard does.
Dude, it already happened. When I said "better off dead", I was talking about the all-new, all-bendis book before the movie.
>>84473730
>>84473771
That's made-up bullshit.
Tony did wipe his memory of the events of Civil War, but the ACTUAL reason was to delete all possible copies of the registration records to keep them out of Norman Osborn's hands when HAMMER replaced SHIELD.
>>84475970
I thought that he left a message saying that he was also trying to atone for his sins by doing that. Like it was 1 part getting rid of the records but also cleaning the slate.
>>84471391
Ouch
i'm excited for marvel nower
>>84475970
>>84476073
I thought it was some "virus" damaging his memory? Something to do with Stane's kid?
>>84463989
Because she tries to protect and defend in the WORST POSSIBLE WAYS. The reason 90% of people here agree with Tony is because Carol is an incompetent cunt.
She finds out Thanos is arriving on Earth to steal a Cosmic Cube from Project Pegasus. Does she go there with a team consisting only of the heaviest hitters that Earth has? No, she has Medusa and War Machine go in as part of the first wave, and gets surprised when things go pear shaped.
She finds out the Hulk is going to kill all the heroes, and wants proof. Does she go to him with her concerns with the greatest minds of the Marvel Universe, and maybe some of the Ultimates out back in case shit goes wrong? No, she brings fucking EVERYONE, most of whom couldn't even scratch the Hulk and would become liabilities, doesn't give Bruce a chance to explain what he's doing (as literally the world's leaning expert on gamma radiation, he probably knows what hes doing more than you), and gets him angry.
>>84463354
When will it stop famalam?
>>84476390
This meme was never funny.
>>84476522
I laffed
>>84476390
I can't be the only one that thinks it's retarded that the king of a country would lower himself to join a team that sounds like a rap band. Nevermind how unintentionally racist this all sounds.
>>84464784
The original Wolverine hasn't come back...
>>84476522
It's not funny because it's true or it's not funny because you're from tumbler?
>>84476643
He might as well have with Old Man Logan.
>>84476654
It's not funny because it's a shit low effort joke that's spammed whenever anything related to black people in any way is posted.
>>84476654
it's just not funny. also that cover has a king and queen on it so it's like what
If the sales get bad enough will they turn the comics division over to Feige?
>>84476285
Its funny cause now we have an Oedipus/Sphynx style self-fulfilling prophecy.
That should be enough for her to stop the whole thing.
But yeah, totally agree.
>>84476639
>let's have all our black characters team up!
>why?
>BLACK LIVES MATTER
>>84471837
I don't really think that's the same thing. Sam just had his own ongoing as Nova, it's not like Richard was being brought up every other issue to get people mad. In comparison you get the shitty new captain America where every issue has to include the obligatory
>I'm racist straw man and this is not muh cap
civilian
>>84471599
>What Marvel is doing is probably smart. If comic books as an industry are going to survive, you need new blood and new readers.
But that's completely unrelated to what they are doing
it's a cash grab, simple as that. You want to make people read comics for the sake of comics? don't use legacy characters, start promoting genres other than capeshit, start actually enforcing quality standards. And a billion things more
>>84478546
Every time they brought up Richard, it was just to remind people he died.
Plus, that 3 way cross over Sean Ryan wrote with Sam back in 2013 brought in Starstalker as an insulting strawman for Richard's fans.
>>84463684
>that dialogue
Jesus fucking Christ, Bendis.
>>84463354
Because Axel Alonso hates comics. That is not a metaphor or an inference, he does not like the medium. He is an extremely proficient political animal though.
>>84472397
t. marlel shill
>>84479578
I'm both and I buy comics
>>84473696
DC was at 32% with sales predicated as lower than they actually were even though they had 42 less books than Marvel that month. 15 of their books were in the top 20. If they had released all of Rebirth in one month they would have crushed Marvel completely.
Marvel having 44% and DC 32% only highlights how irrelevant the other publishers are
I have a question for all anons, how long do you think a comic can sustain non cancellation numbers without events and A-lists characters or hated A-list writers?
Let's see Hawkeye by Matt Fraction. That book had it all, a fresh premise, an A-list writer, a movie main character and a waifu sidekick. It worked so well, everyone at Marvel tried to copy the formula, but the second the writer left and the premise stopped being fresh, the book TANKED. The same thing happened with Bendis first books, or Claremonts X-Men, or Runaways, the list goes on and on.
In today's market, a book simply can't survive with only good writing. It needs something else, and usually that something else is what everyone hate (events, A-lists, writers). Marvel's only other option would be to lose the first spot to DC and start competing with Image, then pray writers would want to invest their fresh ideas on their shared universe instead of creator owned books.
>>84482033
>Marvel's only other option would be to lose the first spot to DC and start competing with Image,
>Image
Image has 7% of the Market. It's a non entity. Marvels sales wouldn't just collapse without events. All their big names would still sell as much as they do
>>84463684
Liberals nowadays are strongly Authoritarian
>>84482033
>Claremonts X-Men
I take your point but this is a bad example. X-Men post-Claremont was a mega-seller in the 90s until the market collapsed.
>>84482576
Wouldn't it be possible that current Marvel goes down that route again with their current practices?
>>84482878
Seems like they're trying. The variant covers, the endless #1s. It's the early 90s all over again.
>>84482033
>without events
Depends, I guess? Nova and GotG runs from 2008 or something lasted for a good couple years, I think Nova lasted more. They had Cosmic event crossovers, but cosmic Marvel was mostly self-contained. Aside from that, I recall some completely irrelevant secret invasion tie-in.
>>84483194
...Correction, not completely irrelevant tie-in. I think a prophecy from the early issues came true by then.
This is why people read DC instead of Marvel.
Marvel, they're always gonna be shilling first. Whether it's their shitty books or some kind of moral preaching, they don't care about writing good stories. They care about being "counterculture." Being the moral rebels, always striking out at whatever they wanted to go away. It's never gonna stop.
Whereas DC? DC will absolutely shill the shit out of their comics, but at least they put effort into their stories.
DC stories aren't morality lessons or pandering bullshit, at least not to the level Marvel is. DC focuses on writing memorable stories, epics that are a part of comic history.
When you think "masterpieces of comics that changed the medium forever," you aren't thinking of the Clone Saga, or Civil War, you're thinking of Watchmen, or The Dark Knight Rises, or Crisis on Infinite Earths, or Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow, or Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader. The closest Marvel has to a genre-defining story is The Night Gwen Stacy Died, and even then, Gwen Stacy didn't die for very long.
Marvel is for controversy and disappointment. At least at DC, you rarely ever see people saying "they didn't even try."
>>84470441
Actually the movies seem to be mostly made by people who care like the Russos, and much greater care is taken with the characters than the comics division which just retcons shit every month.
>>84483556
>This is why people read DC instead of Marvel.
Except Marvel has consistently outsold DC for decades.
>>84483556
But Marvel doesn't care about being counterculture, they'll do anything to get a rise out of people and make a quick buck from it. It's like how people foolishly think Marvel cares about "SJWs" or whatever buzzword you can name when they would just as easily make a character a Nazi if it got them some buzz. It just happens that particular gimmick gets under people's skin at the moment and it will totally be swapped for another if things change.
>>84471183
Dissassembled was where the fundamental nature of the Avengers was changed to a team where practically everyone has been an Avenger now.
It was where lazy/reckless retconing and character assassination became accepted as the norm. Prior to that writers still had at least some care before fucking around with continuity.
It was where Events became the fashion, where characters were dragged out of their own realms into crossovers.
The cumulative effect of these endless crossovers has been to dilute the individuality of characters. Crossovers are so rampant individual character arcs are constantly interupted and stopped.
>>84483632
This is totally true and it's really depressing.
It's not just that Marvel makes the bulk of its money from movies and TV shows these days. It feels like the movies and TV shows are where the storytelling strength of the company are. The directors and screenwriters and actors all seem to have more care and love for the Marvel Universe than the comic book writers. They seem willing to push the boundaries and tell new stories, but do so in a way that stays true to each character's core development. There's no heart left in Marvel Comics, it's dead.
>>84483697
Okay, this is why people with decent taste in comics read DC instead of Marvel. People who want to read epics, and stories worth remembering, not just fly-by-night, meaningless harping on the societal issues of the day.
Better?
>>84483745
You're right. The thing is, being counterculture is the easiest way to get a rise out of people, and has been for a long time.
Remember in the early 2000s, where almost every nerd who was into comics was an Al Gore worshipping, Firefly loving faggot? What did Marvel do? They released Civil War, where Authoritarianism and anti Super-heroism won. That worked out for a pretty penny.
Of course, it makes sense to not expect any good storytelling out of a company that was run by a ruthless corporate takeover machine that got bought out by the Mouse. Marvel hasn't been creatively driven since Jim Shooter, and even then it was hit or miss towards the end.
>>84475100
I don't understand is this after Visiongate?
>>84483766
I agree with you about the crossovers, but you're wrong about Disassembled.
It was necessary. People forget how big of a shit show Avengers had become in the late 90s/early 2000s. It was a sad joke and needed a kick in the ass, which is exactly what Disassembled delivered.
It was the same as Morrison's revitalization of the X-Men, though Morrison did it much better.
>>84483556
But when the question of memorable stories are brought up, I do think of a lot of Spider-Man arcs. The OG clone saga with the Tarantula and the Jackal have god tier writing.
>>84475193
>"the last issue reveals the whole thing was a Ulysses vision and they stop it all from happening"
So twilight?
>>84483785
This crap again?
If you ever start reading your favorite DC books with the same amount of contempt and mindfulness of online opinion memes they're going to start looking like total shit too.
I keep hearing how people hate the comics they aren't reading soooo much.
Ever stop to think about where they're getting those opinions of books they didn't read?
>>84483832
>Better?
I wouldn't know, I lost the capacity to feel joy long ago.
>>84483851
You know what? I won't deny the fact that some of the early Spiderman work had good writing. Great writing. Hell, even some of the other stuff was good, like X-Men or Captain America.
But those were a long time ago. The last spark of decent, company-wide writing died out long ago, and nowadays the only good comics coming out of Marvel are the ones that manage to squeak their way out of the door.
It's been in a state of decay since the 1980s at least, and never really recovered from the Spectator Bubble. Did DC fuck up? Sometimes, yes, but never as bad as Marvel has.
>>84483908
Don't do that, that falling into an abyss of cynicism.
Sure, things are bad now for the biggest comics creator, but that doesn't mean there are only bad things. There are plenty of things to be happy about. Those hidden gems that are being published, the oldies but goodies that you never really read, and if comics in general have burned out for you, there's always other, better media.
Hell, if you want, you can look forward to the inevitable Marvel Comic crash once they move past Phase 3 and the whole deal starts to become boring to moviegoers.
Quote me on that, you know as well as I do they can't keep audiences in the greater MCU past Thanos unless they get the rights to use the Skrulls and start foreshadowing right now like they did with Thanos.
>>84483896
>If you ever start reading your favorite DC books with the same amount of contempt and mindfulness of online opinion memes they're going to start looking like total shit too.
I read DC only and have never noticed memes or anything roll into it.
>>84484008
They have the rights to the Skrulls, just not any kind of Super-Skrull
>>84484103
Would you like me to start posting a bunch of horrible and true things about the major DC comics lines?
I can make it so that you'll never be able to read Batman again without thinking /pol/ thoughts.
>>84484195
I don't read Batman anon.
>>84484195
Can I hear them? Just curious at what you'll come up with.
>>84484227
The hell? But it's Batman?
Well then, would you like me to permanently link the immigration debate to your concept of Superman instead?
>>84463684
Spider-Man picking the wrong side again...
>>84484266
Oh, Batman's a classic upper-class superiority strawman argument set in a environment devoid of overt racial context, it's the old line about the poor deserving to be poor and the rich simply being bred as better than anyone else, in any environment they might choose to engage in.
It's kinda a rip-off of Tarzan in that way.
>>84484296
Just fucking do it man, you're the worst /pol/ poster ever.
You sound like the type of guy you fags would describe as a cuck.
Just do it pussy stop asking for permission.
>>84482033
They will never ever lose the to spot to DC again. Marvel tentpoles are just more popular than DCs big trio. Batman could be the biggest seller and Marvel would still win on sheer numbers. The big crossovers dont make as much money as you think,
>>84484467
All it would take is one universally liked DC movie and DC would be back on top.
>>84484495
Yes, the one universally liked DC movie to combat the legacy of Marvels trillion dollar industry will topple the tower. You do realize of course the Batman trilogy started first, and that it didn't make a damn bit of difference. Or 1989.
>>84484391
Meh, I've heard that one before. I thought you were implying DC is using just as much clickbait as Marvel as of late but biases keep me from seeing them.
>>84484517
Well yes. We all know the moves. The movie releases, the comic character it's based on gets more sales, the company gets more sales as a whole.
It's what helps out Green Arrow and Flash these days, it would help all of DC if something like Batman v Superman wasn't so polarizing.
>>84484467
Sales numbers don't matter!
The only things that matter are the characters and the stories!
Judging books on anything else isn't being a comics fan, it's just falling for irrelevant hype.
The only things those numbers are good for is predicting what creative team's going to get replaced or what book's going to get cancelled.
>>84484557
Rebirth books are like 8 of the to 10 right now, and they still won't be on top. Marvel is just the bigger brand.
>>84484541
Well, I've just realized that I don't really have the ill-will to pull this off with conviction. I like Batman, damnit!
But we both know there's more stuff to throw at these titles, my point is that you can ruin any book for someone if you set out to force a negative worldview on the whole thing.
That's just bullshit. This is meant to be a fun and lighthearted cultural experience for people.
>>84484560
Hey now, let's not get crazy here.
I like DC as much as the next guy, but sales numbers do show who's in the public spotlight right now. Like it or not, Marvel is the face of comics, and it's painting everyone in a bad light.
>>84484597
I would argue that the reason Marvel has more sales is not a matter of quality, or brand recognition (though I won't deny, even though DC is and always will be classic, Marvel is in right now), but a matter of quantity.
Marvel publishes FAR more books than any other publisher right now. I don't have the hard numbers, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was making more books than DC, Image and Valiant combined. They flood the market, of course they'll sell more to the average fan.
>>84484682
That's what I said in my first post.
>>84484467
>>84484704
And you are correct.
But it is possible for DC to take the top spot if they can create something BIG again. Like the days of The Dark Knight Rises, or Sandman, or Swamp Thing, ect.
DC has always left a stronger cultural impact, I feel. Marvel is certainly popular now, VERY popular, but other than Captain America and Spiderman, maybe The Hulk, too, Marvel comics doesn't have as much of an impact on people.
To put it in an easier to understand light, I saw the New 52 announcement on television. People were talking about it on national TV, it was a shock to everyone. But I didn't hear about Marvel doing Secret Wars until it was halfway done.
>>84470397
>carol
>writer
same thing right?
>>84473085
Lmao too true
>>84463354
i went to marvels facebook page and im just asking them to fire bendis, join in if you want
>>84477846
Why does no one fuss over the Asian one?
>>84473085
I mean that's exactly what they are doing in that picture.
>>84484845
What?
>>84484758
This is all true, you can find Superman fans in one-horse towns on the other side of the planet but I didn't know there was a character named Thor until I was ten.
It's just how things are with the branding and marketing.
But Marvel is the company that takes big risks and DC is the company that plays it too safe.
Just look at what they're doing:
Marvel's crazy shakeup and replacing, abandoning, and killing major characters makes everything there new and different and bizarre.
DC's folding it's "Risky" Vertigo line into the mainstream whole, it's relaunching status quo every five years, it's maintaining and conforming to the reader's expectations.
These two very different strategies are going to lead to one company's deterioration and the other's rise. I would love to take bets on who's who.
>>84477846
Don't forget all the Asians teaming up with cho hulk
>>84484845
>>84485009
Take your racebaiting shitposts back to /pol/, all you're proving is that all lives don't matter if yours is included.
Bendis got his feefees hurt that some nobody called Tom King wrote a good story and he thought he could do better using similar elements.
Both of them literally use the same hook for WHY the Avengers decide to doubt one of their own, some fucker with future sight tells them they're going to go crazy and kill people, and they get too paranoid about it.
Yet one them wrote a pile of shit while the other wrote a great fucking comic.
I might be the only one on this board that kinda likes Hellcat
but not a single book I'm reading besides that and Nova are in the event
Gwenpool, Silk, Vision, Venom, Carnage, Mockingbird and Hyperion are just chilling doing there own thing
Civil Who? why are you reading Bendis, Waid and Slott in the first place
>>84484997
You're correct, in that DC is going the safe bet route, and Marvel is going big risk.
But I think you're giving Marvel too much credit, and DC too little. After all, you bring up DC relaunching their status quo every five years, but forego the fact that Marvel seems to be relaunching itself every year for the last four.
And DC is certainly conforming to reader's expectations, but that is gaining them some good will, which Marvel seems to be burning with it's constant changing of characters and shock titles, like the recent Captain America.
I think within the next year or two, we're going to see something shift. Either DC is going to start catching up to Marvel even more, or Marvel is going to reform itself and start running decent stories.
I can't see Marvel lasting in it's current situation. It's running out of fuel to keep it's fires burning, as you can only play the controversy card so many times, and replace so many characters. If it doesn't start dropping in sales by 2018, excluding the movie bumps it's sure to get, I'll be surprised. And at the same time, I do see DC's path giving them a decent sales bump. If it continues to make fans happy with good content, then fans will recommend their books to other friends, and DC may see a rise in publicity and sales.
But when that becomes more apparent, someone's going to take action. Either DC is going to try and do something big to leap over Marvel, or Marvel is going to do something even crazier than what they've already done to regain their lead.
Mind you, this is all speculation, but I do believe it's the most likely option.
>>84485061
Go blog about your feelings somewhere else.
>>84484845
because who the fuck is using those characters besides Chulk and Kamala
it's just an excuse to bring them out of limbo
>>84485099
Oh, hey, get this, I've been watching this show called "The Rise and Fall of the Comic Book Empire," and I found out that DC totally had a bigger market share than Marvel in the early 2000s. Around the time Marville was being made.
So it's happened before, and it will happen again. The cycle repeats, faster than the last time.
>>84485099
You mean Marvel would try to surpass the bullshit they're doing now if they start to fall? What the hell kind of stunt would that be?
>>84485061
>all lives don't matter if yours is included.
>racists deserve to die
>racism is worse than crime, unless you also believe all criminals should be put to death.
Wew, lad
>>84485276
Some crazy bullshit, that's what.
My predictions? Either Civil War 3, This Time It's The Race War, an event where the entire Marvel Universe really IS reset, or they kill the replacements and replace them with even more crazy replacements, like killing off Falcon Captain America and making him into Storm: Captain America.
But I'd hope for Civil War 3: This Time, It's The Race War, because that would be a fucking ride.
>>84485328
Marvel would actually be really good if it just went all out and completely destroyed its universe in the most horrific possible way.
At this point I would really enjoy that.
Is the issue out?
I want to read it with /co/
>>84485328
Fuck yeah, I'll be down for the laughs that's going to bring. It better have both sides be caricatures and a scene of Cyclops blasting away Inhumans while laughing like a mad man.
>>84485343
I wouldn't want that at all. Too many problems when you reboot.
>>84463354
The fact it's called "Civil War ll" shows how creatively bankrupt they are
we mock in the past and time and time again but this major event is a straight rehash of a rehash and it's paint by the numbers.
It's hitting a point where you just can't care. You know Banner will be back you know all this hero fighting will end with them making peace and moving on no matter how horrid they are to each other. and while that has been the issue for a decade+ the bigger failure is it's not even new or interesting concepts. It's so mundane how can you be excited for it?
>>84485396
>Cyclops blasting away Inhumans while laughing like a mad man
If this single panel happened, then there would HAVE to be another parody of the comic like what happened with Avengers vs X-Men.
>>84485099
You're right about me: I give DC way too little credit.
But they keep rewarding me for that by making me right about them!
For instance: they have ths nasty habit of doing a weak copy of what Marvel does (when it doesn't blow up in Marvel's face) and so now there's a new female minority Green Lantern, and a SuperWoman who's actually in fact the gal Superman used to date, and an Asian Superman, and a Superman who's his archenemy taking his place to prove how superior he is, and Batman's dealing with superheroes turfing him out and taking his place, and soon there'll be a second younger Titans team running around, and then there's the black kid who's following in the Flash's footsteps...
Sound familiar yet?
>>84485099
DC isn't even going that safe. The headliners for Green Lantern are a Muslim man and Latino woman, the new "Robin" is a black kid, there's a Chinese Superman the Mexican Jaime getting another book and let's not forget the gay couple Apollo and Midnighter getting a book
>>84485429
>The headliners for Green Lantern are a Muslim man and Latino woman
And Johnfags are triggered 24/7 because DC didn't give diverse book to him. And those fans will trash-talk DC at every opportunity.
>>84485412
Can anyone confirm for me that "Divided" is an upcoming event?
Or was that a Civil War promo, because I thought it was for the Hydra Cap event, and I'll be laughing my ass off if the next event after Civil War 2 is more hero v. hero.
>>84484997
>But Marvel is the company that takes big risks and DC is the company that plays it too safe.
This is horseshit. There was nothing safe about New 52 and all the experimental titles that came with it, ditto for DCYou which was even more experimental. Fuck if you want to talk big risk why don't we talk about COIE?
>>84485449
Divided is teaser for Marvel NOW!
>>84485444
I can't say for the wider comic community but /co/ has loved GL's so far which is surprising because we're all prepared to hate it due to "Minority pandering" and Dogfucker being the writer
>>84485428
>DC copies Marvel
In Bizzaro world, maybe. Marvel copies DC far more often
>>84485449
It's the new status quo for Marvel now. After Civil War 2 the younger heroes realize the older ones are a bunch of idiots who fight each other all the time and want do things differently. It's a generational divide thing.
>>84485428
>>84485429
I won't lie. These do sound similar to Marvel. In fact, I'm amused two posts with the same content were posted in the same exact second, one number apart.
But at least the things DC does makes more sense than what Marvel does. Anyone can use a Green Lantern ring if their will is strong enough. There have been multiple Flash characters at once; hell, some of the best stories of the Flash involve multiples. And with Robin, Cassandra Cain was pretty good, so I'll wait on it and see.
The Asian Superman thing does sound really retarded, though, I'll give you that.
But the thing that separates DC and Marvel is this. DC is going to focus more on telling stories with these characters than they are using these characters as racebait like Marvel. The worst I've seen was that Wonder Woman "even the lasso of truth can't stop mansplaining" thing, and that writer got fired, so DC seems to know what's up.
>>84485481
Well, looking at Roundup reviews, most of them are good. I'm not familiar with most of blogs/sites so I don't know where they're standing.Except Blog of Oa. Two issues, two 4. Nitpicking as fuck. Probably salty characterfag.
>>84485449
I'm thinking it's more like a new status quo.
They did something like that a few times before: after the original Civil War there was two Avengers teams, the "official" government shills team and the "vigilante" team of mostly street level heroes.
Then there was that "Dark Avengers" era where there were villains in charge of everything for a few years.
>>84485526
>These do sound similar to Marvel
Why, because they're minorities? Was DC just supposed to be fully white to not copy Marvel?
You should read the story time for Chinese Super-Man. It was actually pretty good
The last issue of Vision really drove home what I don't like about Marvel these days. They just don't act like heroes anymore. What, I'm supposed to read Thor, SamCap and Ironman when they had a junkie infiltrate their friends home, spy on him and then cause his sons death?
>>84485620
I mostly meant it sounded similar in the way of taking established character roles and giving them to new people instead of creating interesting new character roles, but DC is doing better than Marvel in that most of them are character ROLES, not actual characters being replaced.
But on the Chinese Superman, is the way he gets powers bullshit? Because everything I found when looking it up said "He replaces Superman because diversity."
I'll check it out, though, if you think it's good.
>>84485095
>why are you reading Bendis, Waid and Slott in the first place
/thread//co/
>>84485651
His origin is based on an old pre-crisis DC story where the Chinese government manufactures their own Justice League.
>>84485651
Did you read last issues of New 52 Superman? Remember those energy lightnings that zapped out of Superman while he was dying? That powers Chinese Superman.
It's fun comic. There's little tragic, lots of fun. Good stuff.Art was little wonky from time to time, though.
>>84485681
>>84485690
Oh, that's what that was about.
Sounds cool. I'll read it ASAP.
I just want to read about heroes overcoming obstacles that arn't made for real life. Alien racial politics are fun, so are evil people. when you ditch that to make it about real life politics and make the good guy kinda evil then thats what it becomes, real life politics and some super sot so much heroes
>>84485651
>Because everything I found when looking it up said "He replaces Superman because diversity."
Where the fuck did you read this shit? Are people really this retarded? Superman, the real Superman, is in at least 4 books every month
>>84485721
You should be reading Rebirth
>>84485650
Are you talking about the visit from their relative? in response to a precognative report that The Vision was going to go on a murder spree? the very same murder spree that we readers have known was coming sinse the very first issue?
Is that the horrible crime that you think will finally convince us all of Marvel being horrible to read?
>>84485725
NBC, anon, a site which I now realize isn't reliable when talking about comic books.
>>84485751
>>84485751
>s that the horrible crime that you think will finally convince us all of Marvel being horrible to read?
Nice overreaction, man. You can read whatever you like, I don't care what you do. But this and "Let's all fight each other again" is just shit. They're not Superheroes, they're Super soldiers.
The Avengers have caused Vision's murder spree because of their lack of trust . Visions son is dead and it's their fault
>>84485725
The real Superman died years ago. :^)
Jokes aside, I've seen what he's talking about too. Some people overreact or misunderstand these things. It's just like how I see the mansplaining line tossed around to prove DC is shit when it had nothing to do with mainstream continuity at all and wasn't even an issue of Wonder Woman.
>>84485741
I like geoff, il give it a go
>Sure Marvel is bad but DC is just as bad!
>proceeds to display complete ignorance of DC
Marveldrones are this stupid
So I heard from my brother, who actually cares about MarvelI'm a DCfag from my childhoodthat Hulk got killed recently?
And I heard from /co/ that Tony Stark retired in favor of some totally new character?
Is this true?
>>84485979
Yes and not yet, but it'll happen soon.
>>84485796
maybe vision shouldn't have covered up a murder.
>>84485979
Yes and the Iron Man replacement has been all over the news because she is a "15 year old black woman who reverse engineered an old Iron Man suit"
>>84485979
>that Hulk got killed recently?
No, it's worse than that anon. Bruce Banner got killed. Why is that not Hulk, you ask? Because Banner was cured of the Hulk completely. But Hawkeye killed him in case he "Hulked out"
We don't know that's going to happen with Tony yet but all the reveals and announcements really are making CWII look even less important than it already appears
>>84485999
Wow, that's actually really impressive. At that point she's pretty much smarter than Tony since he had all kinds of resources.
I daresay that she deserves the title more to be honest.
>>84485979
Yeah, it's time for their biannual racial/gender shakeup.
>>84485995
Maybe the Avengers should approach their friend about it instead of trusting some Inhuman.
Speaking on Inhumans, are any of the Marvel "heroes" doing anything about the genocide cloud that's floating around?
>>84486021
I daresay your missing the point, you obviously suffer from cognative bias
>>84486060
I WONDER WOULD YOU SAY THAT IF IT WAS MUTANT SEER
And nah, everybody acts like it's regular Tuesday. Only X-books are making big deal out of it, everyone else doesn't mention it.
>>84486021
>Tony had all the resources
You know what Tony had when he built the Iron Man suit?
A Box of Fucking Scraps.
Whereas this girl could steal all the shit from MIT she wanted to build her Iron Man suit (for real, she stole the parts to make it from MIT. No bullshit.)
>>84486089
>A Box of Fucking Scraps
And that Asian genius and all the shit the Viet Cong gave him so he could build weapons for them.
>>84486021
>Wow, that's actually really impressive.
Is it? They have just written her as so super smart and awesome that she can do it. It's lazy. Impressive is a normal guy like Captain Cold mastering his Cold gun by taking it apart and putting it back together hundreds of times until he understands it
>>84486078
Magneto was unironically right. How the fuck did it come to this?
>>84486021
Even some SJWs have it out for Bendis because of her. They're still angry with Bendis after that Spider-Man comic where Miles gets annoyed with people bringing up his race in irrevalent contexts and ignoring that he's not just black, they seem to think he'll write a black lives matter comic where she'll go "maybe both sides have a point". That and how the media keeps calling a 15 year old a woman and how she wears a sexualized outfit.
>>84486089
Did the suit even hold up that well either? Or was that just for the movie?
>>84463354
>What went wrong?
Bendis
>>84486129
In the original Iron Man stuff it worked just fine. It even had suction cups so he could hide on the ceiling!
>>84486129
Yes, he even used it when he made it back to America and painted it gold after finding out it scares the fuck out of people. It's the same armor he wore when the Avengers were founded.
>>84486138
>>84486152
And let's not forget how he charged it from the wall-socket.
>>84486161
Or that magnet shit like where he had cars orbiting around him
>>84486161
There was a wall socket in some Viet cong shack?
>>84486170
No I mean when he got back home, that was the power-source he used.
>What went wrong
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhA71nz7Tl0
>>84485428
>Marvel invented these tropes
Almost as retarded as Silk being the first asian hero.
>>84486185
How did he power it up in Vietnam?
>>84486200
With science.
