Jay's entire fucking storyline is retarded and autistic.
Hi yes you still have feelings for Caitlin? What about the part where the JAY WHO HAD ANY KIND OF FEELINGS WAS KILLED BY YOU AND YOU WERE ON EARTH 2 FOR MOST OF THE FUCKING TIME.
WHY IS THIS SHOW SO BAD ABOUT TIME TRAVEL??
No, there was only one Jay/Hunter untill they went to earth 2 for the first time, that's when the econd one was created, Flash is shitty at explaining things but at least they try with preety much anything that isn't speedforce
Okay but how about in Batman vs Superman when Superman was blown up by the nuke and was 99% dead in space and batman got the idea to use the krytonite spear against doom and then several minutes later when superman gets back down to earth he says
>how are we going with that spear?
As if he knew what batman's plan was the whole time even though he was practically dead when batman thought of it and they never discuss it together
>>84284245WHOS RUNABOUT WAS IT?!?!
Pay attention, bro.
Hunter was masquerading as Jay and bonding with Caitlin throughout season 2. He only created a time remnant of himself and killed him when Barry closed the breaches and went to Earth-2 to rescue Jesse, which only happened in episode 14.
>>84284299
The plot framework was laid out by Goyer.
Do I really need to say anything more?
>>84284245
>This complicates things
No, it doesn't. You said that was your whole plan.
I'm not as down on S2 as most but there were some real stupid parts where you could tell they were making shit up as they were going along.
>>84284369
It feels like they hardly changed a good chunk of their story outline from when E2 Barry was planned to be the villain.
>>84284369
He meant the last breach being closed. He never planned for that to happen. So much he was trapped in Earth-2 mulling his impending death when Barry came back.
>>84284245
It's pretty obvious that the writers wrote themselves into a corner in the middle is season 2, although this >>84284297 is a good explanation. Anything involving time travel and time remnants is pretty badly explained.
>>84284245
If you're just going to use "autistic" as a synonym for "retarded", what is the point of saying something is "retarded and autistic"?
But anyway, yeah, it was fucking stupid.
>>84284459
Seriously this show is fucking HORRENDOUS with time travel.
Season 1 was worse, in my opinion. Hey let's kill myself and that'll somehow erase Reverse Flash from existence in THIS EXACT SECOND and not just fuck up the entire timeline just what.
WHAT???
>>84284549
It did. That's why the singularity appeared.
Holy shit, do people purposefully not pay attention so they complain about it later?
>>84284549
Time travel uses quite a few different mechanics in different films/tv shows. The flash tv show eventually makes it rule set and it works
basically speedforce
>>84284600
I'm a little miffed that Flash's ruleset for time travelclashes with the other CW shows, particularly Legends of Tomorrow.
>>84284549
I think Eddie's suicide actually works in theory:
>Eddie kills himself
>Eobard is never born
>Eddie never meets Eobard
>Eddie doesn't kill himself
>Eobard is born
>Eddie meets Eobard
>Eddie kills himself
It works as a paradox. The problem is that other instances of time travel in the show contradict that; time remnants should be the same thing on a smaller scale, for example:
>Zoom travels back a second
>Zoom sees himself, realizes it's a remnant
>Zoom decides not to travel back in time a second to keep the remnant
>the remnant never appears
Etc.
>>84284582
That makes a bit more sense. I just wish the show just once asked "hey why is everything the same if he's erased from existence" but instead they make it seem as though Barry time traveling is what caused the rift.
>>84284420
>So much he was trapped in Earth-2 mulling his impending death when Barry came back.
But he can just cross universes on his own, without breaches. That's how he got the OG Jay.
>>84284646
Eddie's death works in the context of time being one-directional. Until the moment Eddie dies, Eobard exists. After Eddie's death, Eobard can no longer exist and thus fades from existence. Which causes a singularity. The remnant of Eobard that shows up later is essential for the timeline because in order for what has already happened to resolve itself, there needs to be a future Eobard to cause his own erasure. It's retarded and cyclical, but it does make some sense because it's an Eobard from before he was erased, as wrong as that sounds. It's not literally a past self to be sacrificed like nothing, which doesn't make sense and is retarded.
>>84284833
He could only do it with V9, which he stopped using to halt his celullar degeneration. And then he could only do it again when he enhanced himself with Barry's speed.
>>84285042
Why is he still calling it V9? I thought he was using V6 and then Cait made it up to V9
>>84285187
Technically Joe called it V9 and Hunter simply didn't correct him. But Hunter himself only calls it "the speed drug".
Why couldn't they just have Zoom threatening his E1 self to pose as Jay to kill him later?
its a CW show
>>84284245
very few shows/comics/movies do time travel well
>>84285042
Different anon, but thanks for clearing that up. Wish the show had spelled it out, because the plot was rather tangled at that point.
I still wish that killing time remnants meant the person who went back died for the sake of their past self. It would have made the time-travel mechanic much simpler.
Everything to do with time remnants are super fuzzy to me still.
>>84284245
They clearly changed it while writing it.
Jay was not originally a Zoom phantom.
The writers couldn't decide what they were doing and were literally just making up things as they went along without a plan.
>>84287130
>Speedster are capable of time travelling through the speed force
>A speedster travels one second back in time
>He encounters his past self, and his arrival causes the past self to not travel back
>A paradox is created, and the future self becomes a time remnant, excised from the timeline and capable of dying without altering the timeline
>>84287770
This is true, although it contradicts the times Barry traveled back a day and replaced himself.
>>84287822
That's because he was time travelling wrong, according to Eobard.
>>84284245
>trusting a WB show's plot to make sense
Pic related
