Why is it acceptable for Goku to be invincible and unbeatable, but for Superman gets him called "overpowered", "Mary Sue", "boring", etc.?
Because comic book fans are smarter so they have higher standards.
>>84259881
Goku is not invincible or unbeatable. He's lost and been beaten many times, by things as mundane as a laser gun even.
>>84259881
muh work ethic
Because Goku lives in a universe where every random mook has a similar power level. Plus he gets his ass handed to him regularly, even literally dies. Far from unbeatable.
>>84259881
Superman is literally always holding back plus>>84259940
>>84259931
>>84259940
But he comes back every time and beats the guy who beat/killed him.
Goku worked to be as strong as he is? They're both trash.
>>84259931
As has Superman
>>84259956
No he doesnt.
>>84259940
>same power level
Not really dude.
Since Vegeta first showed up, nobody else had any chance to beat Goku, apart from some rare temporary power ups.
>>84259935
I don't want to shit on Dragonball Z or anything, if only for nostalgia's sake, but it kind of irks me that the whole Saiyan thing basically ruins the idea of simply training your hardest. Goku still trains like a motherfucker, sure, but now he's an alien that's naturally more powerful than your average human and has a far higher limit (if any) than any Earthling could ever reach. Then being a Super Saiyan went from this incredible, legendary thing to something they could all achieve, sometimes without all that much effort.
I don't know, maybe I'm just being unfair. It's been a long time.
>>84259881
Because anime fans don't read comics and like to shitpost about stuff they don't know.
>>84259881
From my understanding, superman doesn't encounter threats he had to truly push and train for, unlike goku. All of goku enemies are usually planet busters from the get go
>>84260139
>but it kind of irks me that the whole Saiyan thing basically ruins the idea of simply training your hardest.
>being a Super Saiyan went from this incredible, legendary thing to something they could all achieve
hmmmmmmmmmmm
>>84259881
Superman is pretty balanced, all things considered. He has several glaring weaknesses which he regularly has problems with. People like Flash and Martian Manhunter are actually a lot more overpowered.
>>84259881
pre DB Super
>Goku is better than Superman because he's not as overpowered
post DB Super
>Goku is better than Superman because he's a god now and could easily beat him
>>84260366
>superman is an overpowered little bitch
>all my favourite superheroes could beat him
Why can't they just admit to being casuals?
>>84260401
This. I prefer goku over supes, but I ALWAYS knew supes would destroy him. I ever flip flopped like him
It's not.
>>84259881
Well Goku's weaknesses are things like how he's a complete retard and is totally irresponsible. Morally he isn't that great, he doesn't really preach, he's not the moral compass for the group of people around him. Those are more central to criticisms of Superman than him being godlike, really. Perhaps the combination of being a moral compass boy scout AND a godlike being is just too much in one character.
Goku is basically a silly guy that often acts like a spoiled brat but after overcoming shitloads of adversity gets strong enough to beat a threat to Earth or his friends. The criticism goes that Superman is already strong enough without trying, and doesn't have those character flaws that Goku does. It's also notable, though often missed, how often Goku DOESN'T actually save the day, at least not singlehandedly.
Goku actually has a personality <:^)c
>>84259881
Because people don't read superman comics and they assume they revolve around punching
Little do they know, superman comics revolve around pranks.
>>84260139
Goku from the beginnin isn't human like the others, he had a tail and can transform into a giant monkey.
It is from his continuous training and many master he had that he become a legendary warrior: he was a LOW CLASS Sayan, one of the WEAKER one. With his training and genius he surpasses his limit, he surpasses the more potentially stronger Vegeta and become a super sayan.
And when a stonger opponent than him appear, ho train again then he continue to improve this status creating super sayan 2, 3, e.g,
>>84260479
oh that rascal
>>84260478
DAE eating all da foods while everyone has the shock face XDDD
i miss /co/ku
>>84260139
Well the idea from Gohan on was that it was the mixed race of human and saiyan that made SSJ more doable. It was that Saiyans are basically meant to be cold-hearted killing machines yet awakening as a SSJ was a very emotional thing. Humans are much more emotional than Saiyans. Goku was unusual for a Saiyan, much more compassionate and kind. That was the concept with Gohan and why he was meant to be more powerful. He was an alloy of two races that were alien to each other. You see the same with Future Trunks. Goku, Gohan and Future Trunks all cared deeply for their comrades who they lost. Vegeta originally couldn't give a shit and even killed his own comrades. I guess his emotional push over the edge was feeling so pathetically inferior to this peasant Goku.
Where Kid Trunks and Goten are concerned, that was just a kind of meta thing where Toriyama made a concession to "do we really want another 50 episodes of them training followed by a traumatic experience that surely everyone around them could've prevented just so they can no fight on the same level as the other main characters and not just be benchwarmers?"
It's a difference in how the stories are written. Goku's foes are usually much stronger than he is, and the point of the story is beating these bad guys up. Superman's foes (with a few exceptions) are usually weaker than he is, and the point of the story is more about saving people from the bad guy, or "how do I beat this bad guy up without killing him"?
>>84259881
Because Goku stars in a gag comic while Superman tries to be all edgy and serious.
>>84260274
Yes? Becoming a Super Saiyan goes from being this massive, game-changing deal to just another level up. When Goku turns the first time it's after a lifetime of of almost obsessively training and it still takes Freiza killing his best friend as well as that entire apocalyptic situation to finally push him over the edge.
When Goten does it, for instance, he just... does it. Boom, he's a little Super Saiyan. Not because he worked even harder and went through more shit than his dad, he couldn't have, but just because it's somehow become much easier to go Super Saiyan for no apparent reason.
It goes from being this very special, virtually unheard of accomplishment to the standard. Nearly every living Saiyan is a Super Saiyan and everybody else, who aren't Saiyans and so can obviously never be Super Saiyan, get less and less relevant over time.
Again, I might be totally wrong here so feel free to pull me up. I just feel like if base power levels were more evened out and upper limits were more equal then Goku and the others would be more impressive. If everybody had the unrealized potential to be as strong as Goku, with it being a simple matter of dedication and skill, instead of his being almost innately superior then all that hard work stuff would ring less hollow, to me at least.
>>84260557
Also, as long as DB ran, it sure as fuck didn't run for about a century in dozens of different parallel manga making up centuries and centuries work of stories about the same guy who seems to stay more or less the same overall.
People might be more forgiving of Superman if he hadn't already had thousands and thousands of issues before DB even started.
>>84260499
Does Superman even PLOTS anymore on his comics?
>>84260604
>and everybody else, who aren't Saiyans and so can obviously never be Super Saiyan, get less and less relevant over time.
That's a bit of a misconception. The villains, outside of the Saiyan arc obviously (and no one was SSJ then), are non-Saiyan and are always far more powerful than any Saiyan - at least till their final defeat. Even then, they're often still more powerful but get defeated with a particularly strong attack, like Buu. That took the ki of just about everything in existence to be dedicated to an attack while Vegeta had to distract Buu for Goku.
Even now, the most powerful things are these cat people and blue space gays. It's true that Krillin and co got left behind badly, but to be honest they were never really up there anyway. There was a tiny window when they were first introduced and that was that.
>>84260635
His most recent prank was to trap Batman in a film with him that was so bad it would kill Batman's movie career.
>>84259956
What people forget is that Akira Toriyama want to kill off Goku for real two times. The first was at the end of the Frieza fight by him failing to escape the plant. The second was is death at the hands of cell.
>>84260712
Woah... That Supes low key looks like Affleck
Is this irony or retardation?
>>84260712
I demand to know in which numbers I can find this prank.
>>84260592
>Superman tries to be all edgy and serious
>>84260717
He basically would have succeeded with the Cell one if he hadn't been given a semi full of gold to continue DBZ.
>>84260729
Hmm, I think it was "Real life issue 2016".
>>84259881
because anime is gay
>>84260664
Yeah, "everybody" was wrong. My bad. Obviously the villains stay powerful and threatening, I didn't mean to say otherwise.
>>84260717
I'm pretty sure that Frieza thing is a myth.
Because people like Goku while Superman is only liked by a shrinking demographic of neckbeards. Also, there's a generation that grow up watching Goku's adventures so they feel an attachment toward the character they don't feel with Superman. Inb4 TAS, it was never really successful and the Timmverse is one of the biggest reasons why the 90s generation upwards believe Superman is lame while Batman is so cool and complex
>>84260752
Conxtext?
>>84260799
EARTHQUAKE!
>>84260592
>>84260717
>>84260755
A lot of these things are myths, like that he intended it to end with Frieza. There isn't any evidence for that, and there's evidence to the contrary given that he'd introduced Gohan and hadn't really paid that off yet, he just headbutted Radditz ages ago and then just ran around on Namek without doing much of consequence.
>>84260799
supes is a dick
Cell is GOAT
>>84260792
Superman has had at least 3 generations
Westerners pick Goku because the obsession over Japan due to it being different
Toonami is one of the worst things to happen to Western media
This thread reminds me that time super became the king of the world and everyone had to offer tribute to him.
>>84260828
The storylines do all seem to tie up by the end of the Cell Saga, however.
>>84260833
It's really sad that Cell is canonically the weakest of the main DBZ villains now.
I hope he gets to come back too. I know this means nothing, but when Gohan finally kills him, Cell says "I'll be back!"
>>84260839
Well a counterpoint to that is how so many people, especially Americans, assumed DBZ was an American cartoon back in the 90s.
I think a bigger problem, if you can call it that, is that everyone that likes DBZ likes it because of either the anime or the manga. Most people that like, or have some attachment to, Superman are getting that from the movies mainly, then the TV series, then in a distant last place the comics. In other words, DBZ fans are directly interacting with the core product whereas the majority of people who're aware of Superman are getting that from the Reeve movies or Smallville, etc.
>>84260499
What the fuck, Clark?
>>84260863
Yeah. Well there's definitely one true thing which is that there wasn't even going to be a Cell at first. It was just going to be 17 and 18. His editor said he can't have these two kids be big bad bosses, it's too anticlimactic. Toriyama made Cell (first form only) and the editor said that it looked stupid, make him change form or something. That happened again until he ended up with Perfect Cell.
Still, if we didn't have Buu, we wouldn't have Videl, so I'm glad we have Buu.
>>84260063
he stated that he killed himself in order for gohan to reach ascended saiyan.
Goku could have killed cell.
>>84260557
So, wait. Why is the former better?
>>84260865
>but when Gohan finally kills him, Cell says "I'll be back!"
I wonder if that was a dub-only joke reference to Terminator, since Cell is an android from the future.
Super can be Funny
Goku can't
next subject please!
>>84259881
They don't read comics.
>>84260940
16's death was what made Gohan hit SS2.
Goku died because Gohan never finished Cell off, which caused Cell to self-destruct out of desperation
>>84260941
Because it means Goku has a flawed character and is outclassed by each enemy and has to struggle to win. Supes has a perfect moral character who doesn't even need to try to win. Yes, I know there are lots of exceptions to Superman being morally perfect and a boy scout, but that's the "character in a nutshell" thing that's in peoples' minds, that the comics return to repeatedly, and that we get in movies (and if we don't, everyone hates that movie).
>>84260468
>Goku is basically a silly guy that often acts like a spoiled brat but after overcoming shitloads of adversity gets strong enough to beat a threat to Earth or his friends
He ran around the world beating up animal with sticks. That isn't adversity lol.
>>84260839
>Superman has had at least 3 generations
And the vast, vast majority moved on and now they see Superman as a silly character they used to like on their childhood. They feel more nostalgia toward the circunstances surrounding the act of buying a Superman comic than the Superman comic. Besides, during the 80s surged the generation obsessed over their childhood icons but Superman stopped being cool at some point during the 80s. The normal process was to have fun with the toys and then leave them because it's time to go to the next level and frankly, the toy is starting to look lame.
We all agree that Lex Luthor would destroy Goku.
>>84261028
Yes, he'd feed him sweets out of a glass bowl.
>>84260965
this
they're also blinded by nostalgia
>>84261001
I understand, but I think it's a really stupid mentality.
I'd rather read about a guy who struggles with morality and saving people than a guy who struggles with doing enough pushups to be able to destroy 11 planets with a punch instead of just 10.
>>84260936
16, 17, and 18 were requests from his editor too. 19 and 20 were going to be the main villains initially.
>>84261013
They don't view it as silly. Like all grown adults should they move on from childish shit like comics and cartoons which were MADE for kids in the first place
>>84261068
People just want to have fun. Both Goku and Superman are silly characters made for children but Goku embraces his sillyness and not in a lol-so-ironic way. Meanwhile Superman want to be Jesus on spandex
>>84260102
> Since Vegeta first showed up, nobody else had any chance to beat Goku,
Freiza could have killed Goku, his only mistake was killing his friends first. Hell Ginyu could have killed him too after the body swap.
Cell could have killed Goku which is why Goku forfeited the fight with him. He knew Gohan was stronger and could actually win.
He was on even ground with fat Buu, but had to rely on powerups and from other people in order to keep up with his other forms.
>>84261028
You mean The Riddler?
>>84261119
Really, man?
Most Goku vs Superman wars I've seen have a "superman is DUMB and for BABIES and goku is COOL and BADASS" tone.
>>84260940
No, he couldn't. He flat out says so after the Warp Kamehameha failed to kill him and he surrenders. He was banking on Gohan to explode with anger and defeat Cell.
>>84261119
>Meanwhile Superman want to be Jesus on spandex
further proof DBfags have never read comics
>>84260635
haha fucking Superma...its too bad writers don't like writing superman as a psychopath anymore
>>84261176
Just rewatched this bout a week ago. This anons correct
>>84259881
>Why is it acceptable for Goku to be invincible and unbeatable
Goku has literally never been that though. He's an entertaining character surrounded by a likable cast, which is something that can be said of Superman increasingly rarely.
>>84261133
Do you know who the Riddler and Lex Luthor are?
Pretty sure BvS Lex is right out of Superman: Birthright.
Can Goku pull something like this? I doubt it.
>>84259881
Superman isn't unbeatable or invincible either. It's just some shitty meme
>>84259881
List of fights Goku has lost, in Z alone
Raditz
Vegeta
Ginyu
Android 19
Cell
And he couldn't even beat Buu without using the life force of Every human on earth, plus the earth itself.
Comparitively he only defeated
Nappa
Burter
Recoome
Freeza
and Kid Buu
He didn't win a single fight in the android saga.
>>84261420
i see this a lot, but have never asked, is it an edit or an oversight?
>>84261475
>And he couldn't even beat Buu without using the life force of Every human on earth, plus the earth itself.
Along with Namek and the afterlife's bureaucracy.
>>84261420
Goku would eat all the beans. And then the answer would be 0 beans.
>>84261420
Posting anything from Comics code era or before doesn't count.
>>84260936
At the start of the Buu arc, Gohan seemed like he was going to be the main character, and Videl was introduced around that time. Some fags just hate Great Saiyaman.
>>84259976
>>84259976
>Goku worked to be as strong as he is
The funny thing is I can't think of a major villain that Goku became strong enough to beat through training. It was usually from getting his ass handed to him, magic water, fusions or is friends giving him their energy. Maybe Piccolo at the end of Dragonball
>>84261420
I think he could considering he got the wrong equation and the wrong answer.
>>84260940
All of that is wrong. Goku went all out against Cell. The reason Gohan though Goku was holding back was because he was measuring his fathers power to his own. Goku just wanted to show Gohan how Cell fights. You're thinking of Majin Buu that Goku could have beaten but left it to Trunks and Goten
>>84259881
Not that comic fans are much smarter, in my experience shonen anime fans are some of the biggest, most stunted retards on the planet.
>>84261545
Mercenary Tao? That "Sacred Water" was tap water, and it was all training.
>>84260865
>What is Raditz
>>84261475
And in Super, Goku lost both of his fights with Beerus, beat Golden Frieza but then lost to a sneak attack, lost to Frost's cheating tactics, forfeited against Hit because Hit was holding back, beat Copy Vegeta only because Commeson was damaged, and had an inconclusive fight with Black. His only straight win in Super was against Botamo.
>>84261624
>Raditz
>main anything
>>84261624
I said main villain.
>>84261401
>Pretty sure BvS Lex is right out of Superman: Birthright.
I wish. I was a big defender of Eisenberg as Lex and I still don't entirely blame him, but he's really nothing like Birthright Lex and not much like any of the other comic incarnations either.
I did like the heli-pad scene though.
>>84261540
what about this.
>>84261636
Goku was clearly winning against Black. He was only SS1 and beating Black around.
>>84261694
He was SS2 actually. Goku probably could've destroyed Black, but he didn't, and we don't know everything Black is capable of right now, so I labeled it inconclusive.
>>84261717
Who the fuck is Black? Another long lost brother?
>>84260468
This, most people hate superman not cause of his god mode cause of his boy scout more compass that topped with his God mode is why people are turned off. Goku is actually pretty selfish all things considered even if he is a good guy all things considered.
>>84261717
I saw the sparks fly off Goku when he transformed for that fight, but every time Goku turned the aura on again for that fight, the sparks were absent.
Even then, Black has a heart condition and Goku could transform 4 more times. Goku had that fight.
>>84261683
>but he's really nothing like Birthright Lex
In what way? A bumbling weird Lex with an obsession over Superman and red flowing hair? Willing to put earth in massive danger just to make a point? A genius?
I think there are a fair amount of parallels.
There are a lot of comics characters and weebshit characters as strong as Superman, but Superman has to carry the burden of being one of the most famous fictional character. Everybody knows who Superman is even if they haven;t read comics, watched any movie or tv shows. So Superman gets the heat only because he's famous.
>>84261475
what's your point?
DBZ is always written to imply goku can beat almost every villain that shows up but he doesn't do so right away because the plot demands it
>>84261794
Nobody knows for sure, but most signs point to him being Goku from another universe that was possessed by an evil Kai.
What's funny is there were people who genuinely thought he was Goten.
Dragonball is all about martial arts. Fights are long and the main focus. It just simply shows Goku (and others) as being strong.
I don't read comics, but I'm sure Superman isn't constantly fighting other Supermen. To people who don't like Superman, it can seem like Superman isn't proving his strength because he isn't fighting 24/7 with a bunch of shounen tropes like teleporting and world-busting ki blasts.
People watch Dragonball for webm related.
>>84261813
Even Vegeta tell Trunks that Goku has a bad habit of not finishing his fights early.
>>84261545
Mercenary Tao
Piccolo Jr.
Nappa
Recoome and Burter
Does Super saiyan count? Because if not, Freeza.
And then he doesn't win another fight until Kid Buu.
Goku's died multiple times and got fucked up by a regular laser in one of the new movies.
Superman is as powerful as Goku all the time. Goku has to power up to be that strong.
>>84259940
>every random mook has a similar power level
This is not true at all. Not even a little bit.
>>84261847
Except that that's not true, Raditz, Vegeta, Frieza, the Androids, Cell, and Super/Kid Buu were all beyond Goku's means.
>>84261847
>Goku AND Piccolo went all out against Raditz and the best they could do was mutually assured suicide
>Goku got literally crippled by Vegeta and the enormous strain on using 4x Kaioken, which effectively WRECKED his body.
>Goku said himself that he was giving his all against Cell and was even struggling against the Cell Jr. that was fighting him.
Now I think Goku could've beaten Ginyu if not for the body change, and he only lost to 19 because of his heart virus. But beyond that there's plenty of times when Goku is just COMPLETELY outmatched and needs assistance.
>>84261909
its pretty true since almost every badguy kicks gokus ass at first, forcing him to train to get stronger than them. notable exceptions like the ginyu force exist of course.
>>84262002
And those badguys wipe the floor with every single other character
>>84261545
>It was usually from getting his ass handed to him
Well, Sayan are supposed to get stronger every time they recover from being on the verge of death.
>>84261833
BR Lex only had hair in flashbacks, which is standard. And he's nowhere near bumbling or even particularly odd, behavior wise. He's isolated and bitter, sure, but aside from his occasional emotional outburts, he's not the manic mess that BvS Lex consistently is. He's actually a pretty conventional take for the most part. He also lacks the... theological slant that makes up pretty much all of BvS Lex's motivation.
Wealth, intellect and obsessive hatred of Superman are pretty much all they have in common. Which, to be fair, is still a fair bit.
>>84261967
>>84261983
>almost every villain
>almost
>>84261881
>Nappa
>Recoome and Burter
>Major villians
>>84262143
The Ginyu force and Babidi's mooks are not almost all of the villains in DBZ.
>>84261847
That's not true though. Goku has actually lost more fight than he's won. If he was a boxer his fight card would look like an abortion
>>84259940
>Because Goku lives in a universe where every random mook has a similar power level
>>84260234
>All of goku enemies are usually planet busters from the get go
>>84261545
>The funny thing is I can't think of a major villain that Goku became strong enough to beat through training.
You guys could just admit you've only watched DBZ
>>84262173
Well everyone died while fighting Nappa. (except Yamcha who didn't make it that far)
And of the Ginyu Force, Recoome trashed the shit out of Vegeta, the resident tough guy.
>>84262210
I like how you cut off the part I said about Piccolo in Dragonball. I admit that I forgot that the water was from a tap and his victory of Tao was legit
>>84262226
Doesn't make them major villians
>>84259881
Basically, anon, it's okay for everyone to be overpowered, unstoppable, invincible and unbeatable except Superman because when Superman does it it's not "cool".
Is this still the Super's thread?
>>84262207
>Goku has actually lost more fight than he's won
my point is he doesn't straight up win every fight, but its implied most of the time that he could've if it wasn't because the plot demands he doesn't
>>84260169
Because comic fans don't watch anime and like to shitpost about stuff they don't know. :^)
>>84262119
>And he's nowhere near bumbling or even particularly odd, behavior wise.
But he is in the Flash backs, young Lex bumbles around highschool - that's why Clark tries to befriend him. Lex is damn near having a mental breakdown when performing the experiment in the side house that Clark accidentally messes up.
I do agree that Metropolis!Lex is closer aligned to typical Lex compared to Eisenberg.
>>84262266
Well going by that, Goku has really only beaten General Black, Piccolo, Piccolo Jr., Freeza, and Kid Buu.
>>84262351
Then you're a fucking idiot
>>84262351
>but its implied most of the time that he could've if it wasn't because the plot demands he doesn't
Which fights were those? Fat Buu, Black, no others?
>people still go apeshit over Goku VS Superman when Omni-King and his Universe-Destroying Powers are a thing
>>84259881
I think the outrage stems from Goku having worked all his life for his power and Supes being born with it.
>>84262242
But then I wouldn't have the chance to act like a nitpicking idiot on an anonymous imageboard!
But jokes aside, during the original DB, Goku always earned his strength from training, save that one time he drank the magic water during the King Piccolo arc
>>84262402
It's foolish to compare the characters on those terms. DBZ revolves around power levels and working hard to get the job done.
Superman revolves around HOW to get the job done, his strength is simply a means to an end and not the core focus of his character.
With DBZ, we explore how the team bands together and apply themselves to overcome seemingly impossible tasks. With Superman, we explore the implications of being a super powered being. Should you save everyone? How do you feel about the innocents you fail to save? How do you fit into the world?
>>84260752
Do the folks in the bottle city of kandor get much sunlight or did he kill thousands when he did that
>>84262384
nice
>>84262385
ginyu force, androids, cell, majin vegeta, kid buu, golden frieza
>>84262280
Better Version
>>84262644
>I literally refuse to read the manga
>>84262667
DON'T LOSE YOUR WHEY
>>84259881
he's newer, both are aliens, both are god-like "mortals" that prefer to be more like a person then, the "gods" they are. For fucks sake the Punisher with that kind of power would be the end of the world.
>>84262667
Saitama solos.
>>84261859
>Superman isn't constantly fighting other Supermen
That's literally half his job.
>Natural Disasters and Accidents
>Evil Superhumans
Saving kittens from trees and stopping robbers is just the shit he does on the way to important shit.
>>84262716
while DBfags refuse to read comics
capefags and shonenfags aren't so different are we?
>>84262827
Are you retarded?
>>84262667
>Kirito
WHY.
>>84262918
Because he's popular with normies for being the textbook definition of a selfinsert Gary Stu?
>>84262842
how cunning
>>84259881
Because Goku worked his ass off to become powerful, Superman just has to get a tan.
>>84263126
Juan pls
Cause Goku isn't the end all be all character of his universe. Sure, he's consistently grown stronger and stronger. In fact, I would call him a Mary Sue. But he's not boring, his death is something that can be expected.
Superman is literally the heart of his universe. He's by far the most important character of DC. One of the strongest entities in the DC universe is literally called the 4D Superman Thought Robot. He's boring because he's not a character, he's a plot device. He's an archetype. Name the last character arc that changed Superman in any lasting way.
>>84261596
Maybe we should let people like whatever they want and not bundle every fan into a blanket statement.
>>84260799
He was exposed to a variant of Kryptonite and became a douche.
Because Goku is as dumb as a ton of bricks. Give him all the power you want, his reader will still feel good on some level about being smarter than him.
Superman is inherently a better person than most people. He might not be a genius, but he's clever enough. It threatens people.
>>84263252
>his death is something that can be expected.
in a universe where death is meaningless
>>84263423
it still means he can lose
death is just as meaningless in DC
>>84262578
There's a tiny little red sun in the bottle.
>>84263252
>Name the last character arc that changed Superman in any lasting way.
He just died, so, that.
If we are talking about power, MM is more power. He fucking has ALL of Superman's power and even fucking more. Dude is way OP, they just gave him a really stupid weakness to balance him out. And What about Fucking Flash? I think he is the most powerful member. Fucking infinite mass punch yo.
>>84263626
Comparing DC powers is a silly game. The guys who are massively power explore ideas thrown up by their overpoweredness. I can talk specifically about the Flash, it's never a case of "can he run fast enough", because the answer would always be yes.
Instead, his best stories investigate the world breaking paradoxes his powers throw him in, how he deals with failure (granted he should be able to solve everything) etc.
>>84262667
>Mikasa
>Not Eren
For what purpose?
>>84260664
The most powerful thing in the series now is that 'King of Everything' midget that Goku shook hands with by picking him up by his hand and shaking him.
>>84259881
Neither are acceptable, both are uninteresting.
>>84259881
>Goku
>invincible
There are alot of characters that can kick his ass in his own series, also Supes is overpowered he is weak as piss compared to DC's real top tiers.
>>84263716
Eren's a kaiju.
Neither has fought this guy, but both would lose to him anyway.
>>84263739
And that manlet literally nuked several universes because they made him mad for some reason, presumably because everyone in them were evil asshats.
>>84263866
When did Krillin get botox?
>>84263866
>one punch meme
>>84263716
She's canonically the better fighter. While Eren's ability to transform is more powerful, it doesn't really belong on a team.
>>84263571
But "Superman" still exists
>>84264012
But changed in a significant way, which was the point of the question.
>>84259881
He earned his strength, it wasn't given too him.
And because he's a dumbass who can still be taken down if his guard isn't up.
>>84262667
>they included a total of three good anime characters in this image
>>84259905
This should have been /thread. I'm not even going to scroll down I can tell by the fact it has gone on for so long after this answers the question so perfectly I'll just get stupider.
>>84264303
Look at the way Marvel treats its readers if you really think reading comic books is for smart people.
>>84259881
The character is not bad per se but he is often portrayed in media as a flat, goody two shoes character and when they try to give him some depth they tend to make him either whiny or a jerk.
Also, many anti-American viewers see him as a symbol of USA and therefore they loathe them for what they consider Superman represents,
>>84260865
no he doesn't he says something about how he was perfect
>>84261813
You could loo,k at the way his bangs were drawn to know he was SS2. Goku is one of the only characters that has a distinctive look in SS2 besides young gohan in the Cell Games.
>>84264894
To be fair, only 3 people hit SS2 in DBZ. Future Trunks only just got it, and I doubt, or at least hope, that Goten and Kid Trunks will never be relevant.
>>84259881
Dragon Ball started out better than Superman ever will be, and people remember that.
The characters aged and a weekly 10 year power creep ensued.
>>84264992
>Dragon Ball started out better than Superman ever will be, and people remember that.
:^)
I've never heard Goku actually called these things, or heard anybody actually complain that superman is overpowered.
Are you sure you're not just full of shit, OP?
>>84260504
More
>>84265041
>this is my first day on the internet
Because Goku is also a drooling retard who constantly makes bad decisions.
>>84262358
I don't think you realize just how mainstream shonen shit has become. Clearly these people have seen Dragon Ball Z. It's the anime fans that haven't read the comics.
Because Goku is an easy entry character to get into whereas Superman has tons of good shit that no casual is bothered to read so their opinions of him are diluted by the last few boring ass movies.
>>84265703
Dragonball's movie was a disaster much bigger than Snyder's, and yet it didn't hurt the franchise in general. What hurts DC currently is that they seem to be betting the entire multimedia presence for their biggest heroes on those movies.
>>84265797
No they're not. The video games rake in the cash
>muh morals
>muh complex decisions
Superman's peak of popularity happened when he just wanted to save the day and if it's possible having a good time doing it. His popularity started to fade when the writers introduced moral dilemmas and messages. Inb4 muh golden age, that was during the beginning of the character and it was still a very black and white situation, Superman was good, the corrupt businessmen and gangsters were evil and Superman beat them on over-the-top ways even with his then limited set of powers.
The real problem is DC has been ashamed of Superman for decades. Meanwhile, Toriyama and Toei aren't ashamed of Goku, despite Toei went full retarded a long time ago.
Face it, College Humor Superman is the most endearing one so far.
>>84262797
He means other people of his powerlevel. Or even power bracket.
Superman is a menace meddling in human affairs.
>>84266919
Superman helps humanity help themselves
>>84261176
Was that before or after he gave Cell a sensu bean and made him stronger than ever? Kind of makes you wonder what would have happened had Goku not been a complete retard.
>>84266956
Fuck off back to Krypton
>>84266981
WHAT KRYPTON
>>84267000
Not our problem.
Goku is the main character of his universe.
Superman operates in a wider universe with a variety of characters with different skills and powers.
>>84267008
IT IS NOW
>>84266883
The only reason comics were able to make a come back in the 60s and 70s was because characters were given more complex stories. Ethics and difficult decisions have much longer durability than strong man beats up baddies. It might work for kids books in the 40s or newspaper strips, but you can't write a monthly book if it's the same shit every time.
>>84262358
But we do. The thing is, comic fans have had to become familiar with anime just to deal with the weebs, even more so since Death Battle became a thing. WE KNOW anime, that's how we can point out their hypocrisy so easily.
>>84260234
Yes, because comics are written with the idea they will continue for decades, they have to be extremely careful about power creep. Manga and anime are generally designed to end, they can go nuts with it.
>>84267187
>watching bleach
>super speed, my gott
>now everyone has it
>bankai
>my gott
>now everyone has it
>hollow form
>my g-
>LOTS OF PEOPLE HAVE IT
The funniest bit is that early on they started giving human characters powers, but the writer put in on hold more or less, and by the end they were far too weak to be of any use with some exceptions.
>>84264161
>He earned his strength, it wasn't given too him.
No he didn't, Goku loves to fight and shit (it is even part of his DNA). Training is equivalent of him jacking off.
>>84267222
>you will never increase your sexual prowess by having failed orgasms
why live
>>84267222
>No he didn't, Goku loves to fight and shit (it is even part of his DNA). Training is equivalent of him jacking off.
this,
ok does anybody else who watches DBZ and its affliates sit and think to themselves Fuckin Goku why couldn't something bad happen to you just once!
or couldn't you move your ass out of the spotlight for one minute and give Vegeta his props!
Every time I watch an episode I see all the other fighters crying cos Goku isn't there
I mean common learn to fight you idiots you don't need that glory hog all the time
Question why is it that in Broly The Legendary Super Saiyan all the other fighters had to give their energy to Goku
When Vegeta could have done the job just as well?
Gokus own kids don't even get as much attention as their father and they all suffer from the we need goku disease
arrrrgh
I just hate him
who's with me?
>>84264992
You have objectively shit taste.
>>84267312
You realise that Goku has died multiple times?
lways has to come In to save the day. "Oh it's Goku!" Oh man those early sagas were so sickening. Everyone gets owned, and Goku saves the day
Example:
Everyone gets owned against Nappa and Vegeta. Goku saves the day.
Everyone gets owned against the Ginyu Force. Goku saves the day.
Everyone gets owned against Frieza. Goku saves the day.
Everyone gets owned by Beerus. Goku has a fighting chance.
Vegeta owns Frieza in RoF you'd figure Vegeta would finally be able to win. Just once in the movie, especially to Frieza who Vegeta has way better reasoning to kill him than Goku does. Nope. Frieza blows up the planet, and everyone dies, but then Whis uses his time travel (this is when you know they ran out of ideas), and sent them back 5 minutes in time. Before Vegeta kills Frieza...Goku saves the day.
Goku saves the day against Kid Buu
Yawn, yawn, yawn. A Gary Stu to the finest. What a horrible character. Vegeta and Gohan would have been way better. Hell, give me Piccolo too.
>>84267217
>Orihime
>Too weak
Mostly just too forgotten.
>>84267359
eople still confused why he isn't liked by some people? I am just gonna put this is straight forward as I can, Goku is a Gary Stu Archtype. That alone isn't the reason why he is hated by some people. The fact that he is a Gary Stu that always steals the spot light, even when Gohan was supposed to take his place, all because the fans didn't want to see their favorite protagonist lose any spot light, even if it meant underdeveloping the other characters, and even in some cases, pretending they don't exist with the exception of occasional recognition from random dialogue/flashbacks/scene transitions that are utterly pointless filler anyway. Goku stole the show from his own son. also, he was a horrible father and husband, which was only justified by his constant obsession of saving the world and remaining in the spot light.
nuff said lol. (hope this doesn't make anyone mad, but seriously, I'm just saying why other people often don't like Goku, or DBZ for that matter. I have quite a few friends that refuse to watch DBZ just because of Goku. also, unlike DB, DBZ had no real direction, just arcs controled by a villian, which made Goku's life outside of battle utterly uninteresting)
>>84267359
I don't hate Goku at all. But he can be annoying at times. I think I liked him better in DragonBall then in Z, but he's not that bad.
>>84267359
Goku is just one of those character who doesn't really need to change too much, he is the archetype that most shonen heroes model themselves afterwards. I guess the hate is due to the fact Goku really doesn't have much in the way of personality compared to prominent characters like Vegeta and Piccolo superman or batman..
>>84267370
Yeah I wasn't thinking so much of orihime, chad and ishida, mostly the others. Mind you I stopped watching afterIchigo beat Aizen
>>84267485
>superman
>same level of personality prominence and batman, vegeta and piccolo
He's Goku of comics
>>84267359
Goku is a hateable character because he is like that kid is gym class that is naturally great at EVERYTHING he tries. Watching characters struggle to be better and develop is interesting (vegeta and gohan). Goku accidently being the strongest sometimes could be irritating. His rapid development and carefree unchanging attitude (minus heated battles) was just boring. Characters like piccolo, vegeta, and Gohan (even Trunks who had way less screen time than Goku has a wealth of character development throoughout z) make the show greater because they feel more human.
>>84267130
You are correct. The kids of the 40's and 50's grew up. The do good always win likes of Superman and Flash for example had to evolve (former) or die (latter).
>>84259881
It's because he trains. Every time there's a new big bad villain is introduced a good 50% or more of the story arc is devoted to training sessions. The only exception is Majin Buu but even then there was a lot of time dedicated to fusions and coming up with ways to beat him. Plus each villain is usually a step up from the one before rather than fighting a lot of the same guys he already kicked the shit out of a few dozen times like Superman.
>>84267507
>He's Goku of comics
no.Goku is not more original that Superman, he's simply a Japanese adaptation of Superman.
And Superman didn't steal the story of Moses, he's analogous to the various saviors of Western Religion. Young baby of great power, falls from the sky, only to be raised by humble farmers and becomes a man for the world to revere. That's deliberate, it's not done as a rip off.
I love anime, and am a huge supporter of it, Neon Genesis Evangelion is the greatest accomplishment of humankind as far as I'm concerned.
>>84267507
No, Goku focuses more on the journey to solve a problem or to gain strength. Superman starts there, and his journey is about how to use his strength or whether or not he should solve a problem.
Goku revolves around how, Superman revolves around why.
>>84267507
Goku is not in the same league as Superman.
>>84267507
Superman has shown abilities on a scale Goku has never even dreamed of...
>>84261694
>>84261717
So... if SSJ3 Goku could easily outclass Black, and Black was only a little stronger than when he fought SSJ2 Trunks... would that mean that unless there's some plot contrived bullshit that requires Goku or Vegeta to go Super Saiyan Blue, Future Trunks could beat Black's ass if he achieved SSJ3?
I mean, that's probably what'll happen, given that Future Trunks is the star of this arc. SSJ3 Future Trunks will beat Black soundly, but then Black will Zenkai and try to kill Trunk, or try to jack Trunks' body, and then Goku comes in, turns Super Saiyan Blue, and secures the kill, because he's Goku.
>>84267507
Goku as a character might be based off the Monkey King from the story "Journey to the West" but he's not that character. Superman was created decades before Goku, I don't see how one can believe that he's less original than Goku.
Superman is based on hercules and Religion
Son Goku is based on Superman and Sun Wukong
Goku is not the anime superman , trust me he just can't compare to supes when it comes to being a symbol . ect
>>84267676
I thought Superman was based on Doc Savage and John Carter
I'm not sure whether you're grossly overestimating Superman's power bracket, or catastrophically underestimating the powerlevels of top-end villains in the DC universe.
>>84269519
meant for >>84266919
>>84267646
Trunks could only go SSJ1 when he fought Black.
Keep in mind, Goku and Vegeta are so far ahead of the rest of the cast that it's gotten sad.
Gel-geta beat SSJ3 Gotenks in like 2 hits without transforming.
Goku at SSJ2 is way beyond Trunks at SSJ2
>>84263866
>actually debating a joke character vs a serious character
The whole point of Saitama is that he can beat pretty much everyone with one punch, it make no sense to pit him against goku because Saitama would win a single punch, otherwise he loses his character. That's the whole point of his character, he's not supposed to lose, not even come close to it. But autists will still argue it, even though having them come to blows would make zero sense.
>>84259881
Because Goku worked hard for his power and is a complete retard in every matter unrelated to combat, while Superman is what he is by virtue of just being. It's his birthright, if you will.
Because everyone knows who Superman is. While no one cares about Goku, except for weebs.
>>84267359
>Everyone gets owned against Nappa and Vegeta. Goku saves the day.
No. Goku saved them from Nappa. But Gohan, Krillian and Yajarobi saved Goku from Vegeta
>Everyone gets owned against the Ginyu Force. Goku saves the day.
Except for Captain Ginyu who outsmarted Goku and without the help of Krillian, Gohan and Vegeta would have died in Captain Ginyu's body.
>Everyone gets owned against Frieza. Goku saves the day.
Yeah that time it was Goku
>Everyone gets owned by Beerus. Goku has a fighting chance.
Only because his friends gave him their energy to help him reach another level. Without their help he never stood a chance
I haven't watched super
tldr : You're full of shit
>>84269813
You really underestimate Goku's popularity in a lot of the world, man.
>>84261859
man I forgot how terrible the animation used to be
>>84259881
Because Goku earn it. Superman just sit under the sun than bam strongest ever and shit. After that the whole universe just bow to him. And any other kryptonian after that just can never be as strong as superman because he's a super special snowflake.
>>84270223
>Used to be
That's from 2 years ago
>>84263942
>it doesn't really belong on a team.
That's retarded.
That's like saying The Hulk doesn't belong in the Avengers because Bruce Banner isn't a world-class martial artist.
>>84270258
>earned it.
>fictional character
Gokufags in nutshell.
>>84270468
That's from the DBS adaption of RoF, so it's less than a year old.
>>84262268
>Basically, anon, it's okay for everyone to be overpowered, unstoppable, invincible and unbeatable except Superman because when Superman does it it's not "cool"
Watching a character grow to get stronger is fun.
Watching a character you know is stronger than 90% of the other characters jobbing isn't as fun.
It's the reason why during JLU cartoon the only time superman was actually fun to watch was in the finale every other episode he jobbed as much as MM.
>>84259905
So why is Superman so popular?
One is children's character that's wanked over by nostalgia fags from an overrated series. The other is Superman
>>84272170
>>84259881
Because taste differs.
Some fans will complain about everything, some will praise.
Some will be very specific in their fanboyism.
/co/ (and comic book readers) aren't just one individual.
