Long ago in a time far far away we had greats like Walt Disney and the 9 Old Men leading the way in western animation. Note, they were not only influential and inspirating to American animators, we had Animators like Osamu Tezuka taking cues from them in their works. For a very long time America was the lead in mainstream animation and everyone else followed. Then came the 60s and Hanna Barbera showed that animation quality can be cut back to a level where it's nothing more than sliding stills across the screen. The only passible animation was coming from large motion pictures. Fast forward to the 80s and 90s where animation in America began to pic up again. Genndy Tartakovsky, John K., John McClenahan, despite your personal feelings on these people themselves, they understood animation as a medium and were actually able to inject some life into it. Fast forward to now, almost all of the talent from American animation has evaporated. Abuse of 3/4th perspective, lack of energy or creative visuals, and overall lack of understanding of animation plague this medium seems to be where America is now. Japan is largely responsible for the current output of creative animation while America tries to imitate some of the aspects from there yet flounders.
I have to ask, what happened to the talent in American animation?
>>83895063
I blame Cal arts and liberal leftist and feminism
>>83895063
Most animators have stopped putting any effort into their work because little kids will watch whatever brightly colored cartoon is onscreen no matter how flawed it is.
>>83895101
None of those things have anything to do with animation itself.
because people think animation is for kids and by extension less effort should be put into it and it should be taken less seriously because who really cares what kids want
>>83895063
You have to be 18+ to post OP. GTFO.
>>83895121
Actually they have a little. Political alignment is more important than draftsmanship.
>What happened to the talent in American animation?
We don't have budget in the schedule for detailed drawing. And speed is it's own talent.
>>83895063
No American studios want to pay for quality animation nor do they want to put in the amount of time to make it look good. Animation is seen as "for children" so they just put out whatever wacky colorful bullshit cause they think kids don't have discerning tastes and anyone older shouldn't be watching in the first place.
>>83895211
Holy shit im not allowed to post 20min Walk From Nishi-Ogikubo Station?
What? Why? Its nowhere near NSFW.
>>83895582
DMCA, bitch. 4chan's enforced it since someone released some nudes of an actress on /b/.
>>83895101
you got all three in there, nice. A lot of people only go for 1 or 2
It's all about production costs. I'm sure the HB artists were good. But with the TV budget and time, you really couldn't make anything good. Hell, Pinocchio was achievable at lower than usual cost because Disney usedcal-arts student or fresh off art school people.
It's not the quality of the artists that decreased, but the circumstances for artists to do a full, complete work with funding and time has changed
>>83895063
Ok, I'll bite.
It pretty much comes down to money. It costs a lot to make good animation. Companies that have money care more about making more money, so rely on safe bets to attract a large audience, and do it as cheap and fast as possible. A lot of creatives in the field, and even some higher ups would like to do more, want to try to do more, but don't' really want to risk it. After all, if it flops, cutbacks will have to be made and people will lose jobs to compensate the loss of revenue.
If you want to see non-Japanese animation that push boundaries, go check out student films, or go to an animation film festival.
>>83895857
The thing is we don't see nearly as many animators try different avenues of funding here. John K is the only one who attempted to use Kickstarter to fund an animation project. We've seen many more from Japan.
Everyone went to get jobs and the only people who stayed behind to teach were untalented hacks.
It only takes one generation for the talent pool to dry up.
>>83895857
Totally. I mean, seriously. In a perfect world, with enough time and budget, everything will look great.
But we don't live in a perfect world. Time and money constraints have gotten harder to overcome.
The art and the artst haven't changed for the worse. Their circumstances and opportunities to make good art has just become harder.
>>83895906
I guess artists can't math good enough to find money.
American shows today spend 3-10 times more money than anime, outsource all the work to Korea, have the advantage of computers, use super simple character designs, spend a leisurely 9 months on one episode, and seem to often use half length episodes, but still the quality is low.
One of the issues is cartoon animation itself. It's repetitive, formulaic, limited, simple-looking, and sub-optimal for television. And on top of that it seems like the storyboarders just aren't good at drawing.
>>83896584
Most of it goes to paying people's salaries.
>>83897323
The animation production is done in Korea.
>>83897396
The American people's saleries
To every /co/mrades in this thread.
Whenever these bait threads come up, just spam Titmouse.
>>83895936
>Everyone went to get jobs and the only people who stayed behind to teach were untalented hacks.
>It only takes one generation for the talent pool to dry up.
In the old days people would learn the job while working. Artist apprenticeships were still a thing, you got paid to learn from the best.
Now people pay through the ass to learn at a university from tutors who couldn't make it in the Industry themselves.
>>83897403
It's still overspending that doesn't produce any good results.
JESUS CHRIST STOP MAKING THESE FUCKING THREADS WEVE HAD AT LEAST 3 TODAY
>>83897418
This, tbqh senpai. I've learnt more in practicing the techniques in several books than from any class in art college.
>>83897418
Apprenticeships cost money that studios don't want to pay.
>>83895063
That's fucking speed racer on the bottom.
Other countries copied and expanded on our ideas, while we ditched them in favor of corporatization, penny pinching, and lower standards.
>>83895121
Liberals are more likely to have the "everyones an artist" mentality, which allows shit that looks like Regular Show to exist.
>>83897413
Shut up retard
>>83895063
>I have to ask, what happened to the talent in American animation?
It died with cgi
The cells used in animation are no longer produced. The Simpsons was one of the last hold-outs on digital coloring, but eventually they had to concede to the market.
>>83900266
The last traditional paper made cartoon was an Ed, Edd, and Eddy short released in 2004.
>>83898683
Ok, nice theory there man.....
>>83898683
Lol
But OP, Japanese are still inspired by American works.
>>83902995
>SU animated by a japanese studio..........
>NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER!
>>83895101
Because money. That's really it. People didn't just stop practicing animation, it's just that there's no funding for good 2d animation.
A big part of the problem is art schools, not artists. Art schools used to be trade schools. Learning how to draw was like learning how to be a mechanic or a carpenter- there was a right way to do it, and if you didn't do it right, you'd fail. You didn't go to art school to "be yourself" or "find yourself" or "express yourself" you did it to pick up a skill that could be applied to a job. The people who worked on early Disney cartoons (et al.) took pride in doing work WELL, and they didn't give a shit about expressing themselves in an emotional sense.
Art schools today are a profit driven industry. They primarily employ failed artists who tell their students that there's nothing wrong with being a failed artist. The administration tells the faculty that they aren't allowed to flunk students though because a flunked student might drop out, and that's not good for business. What you end up with is an environment of losers consoling losers, telling them that being bad is okay and never punishing them for it.
Source: I'm a successful art school grad who works in my industry of choice, and the average level of skill at my alma mater is shamefully bad.
>>83904264
I'm going for pre-animation this year. I've always been decent at drawing and I've never really had a desire to express myself emotionally, but become better technically. I really just want to roid up my art. I took a look at some of the graduates of the program last year and not to be an egotistical fuck but I feel I've already surpassed many of them. I still know I need to learn some actual fundamentals but I'm confident I'll be able to learn them easily and come out better.
>>83895063
>I have to ask, what happened to the talent in American animation?
Richard Williams' "Thief and the Cobbler" fiasco highlighted the dependency on money-management that animation has.
The level of quality and detail he demanded was so high that it wasn't economically feasible, but he kept at it. Between money problems and animator burnout (or literally dying of old age), it took him almost thirty years to get that movie released, and it was so unfinished that even when Williams took so long that he had to forfeit his work to the distributor for missing too many deadlines, they had to outsource more animation just to cobble it into a somewhat coherent story. What's worse is that even if he had released the movie as intended, it still wouldn't have been his masterpiece: the thirty-year struggle of "Thief and the Cobbler" was actually built on the few scraps that Williams was allowed to salvage from an earlier, grander concept whose production was so cocked up that he had surrender pretty much everything to his original backers.
Production studios simply will not allow anything like that to happen to them, and they do so by picking and choosing from the people who prove they will work in favor of return-on-investment over quality, if the two ever conflict (or cut corners to begin with).
>>83895063
Anyone know what the top and bottom right pictures are from? The bottom right reminds me of future boy conan.
Anyways we're probably just at a stagnant moment, really I'm just sick if all the talking animal shit coming out. Yeah I get it people love talking animals but basically everything major coming out today is talking animals.
>>83906307
Gonna take a stab at it and going clockwise from the upper left:
>Betty Boop
>Ribbon no Kishi (Princess Knight) by Osamu Tezuka
>Mach GoGoGo (Speed Racer)
>Heidi, Girl of the Alps
>???
>Snow White
I wanna take a guess that ??? is from the early 70's period of anime.
>>83906703
Thanks, those two were the only ones I didn't recognize.
>>83906703
It's speed racer AGAIN.
>>83895063
I somehow feel this is bait, but I'll bite anyway.
Animating takes time and money, so of course there's going to be cutbacks. Its not that we celebrate true milestones of animtion, its that we celebrate the ones that cutback the least.
>Japan is largely responsible for the current output of creative animation.
Okay stop. Just stop. You're trying to open up a new debate entirely. Just realize the same problems here in the west are alive and well over there.desu
>>83895063
>American talent
>posts Tezuka
>>83908213
His biggest influence was bambi, clearly he just ripped off the talented western artist.
>>83895063
>Princess Knight
>American
>>83895063
not gonna read any of that
but what i can tell you "what happened to the greats"
was that many of the classics had high budgets not meant for tv
Snow White is a fucking movie, you should compare it to modern animation movies
and many of the other classics from Looney Tunes and Disney shorts are shorts that aired before movies, so tv cartoons aren't comparable
if you want compare anything to modern cartoons compare to the trash we have from hanna barbera, stuff that was actually made for tv
and i'd say, cartoons are better off now
>>83900981
>>83902934
You two are very self conscious.
>>83908633
What a shame tezuka's style isn't seen in much of today's anime, its so full of character.
>>83909411
that last Buddha movie is suppose to come out next year
>>83909542
Interesting, didn't know that, thanks.
>>83908839
Yeah, you obviously didn't or you wouldn't have said that bullshit.
>>83909008
Lol
