Does Marvel have the best street level characters/universe?
>>83712959
Yes.
I mean you have Daredevil, Spider-Man, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Punisher, Moon Knight, Shang-Chi, Daughters of the Dragon, Jessica Jones, Dakota North, Sons of the Tiger, White Tiger, etc. There's literally so many great characters for diverse storytelling that makes it such a rich universe.
>>83712959
Batman >>>> anything marvle has
>>83713094
>Batman
>Good
I want this meme to die. I blame Nolan because now Batman is suddenly "the coolest" and can "take down everyone with prep".
Fuck that noise. Daredevil alone has been a consistently better character through time and isn't such a Marty Stu "geekdom" think he is.
And then you add Spider-man and it's already clear who has better street heroes.
>>83713145
>Daredevil alone has been a consistently better character through time
Well neither of them have been any good since the early 90's
>>83712959
DC doesn't have many anyway, at least the ones who stay there.
>>83713145
I see the hipster brigade is here
>>83713145
>I blame Nolan because now Batman is suddenly "the coolest" and can "take down everyone with prep".
You're stupid if you think that mentality started with Batman Begins
>>83713145
Can't kill the truth.
>>83712959
Like 80% of DC's street level stuff is Batman so yes
>>83713145
>Christopher Nolan wrote JLA:Tower of Babel
>>83712959
Maybe so but it'll never make up for there not being a Batman.
There's just something underwhelming about many of Marvel's heros.
Too many complicated personal lives, too many lowly origins, too much mundane.
Meanwhile, DC gets away with tacking on tons of poorly designed vigilantes to their casts, not every fanboy loves Gotham's 2nd stringers but Batman is still the best ever.
>>83712959
Is Constantine street level? Should Spiderman really be considered street level? Is street level based on your own power or the guys you fight most commonly?
>>83713145
>first thing he thinks about is power level shit
are all batman haters this retarded?
>>83713458
First of all: If Constantine is street' then Doctor Strange is street' too.
And second: Spiderman might have real superpowers but it's not like he's fighting Rhino in a secret volcanoe moonbase.
DC only has Batman, and fuck the console war faggots ITT, Batman is fucking great...if you claim to love street level but don't read any Batman stories, you're a fucking tool
That being said...Marvel has more variety, and even some characters who in some way you could say are almost like bizarro or alternate versions of Batman, which is awesome because it allows the same kind of shit but with more leeway than the restraints of Batman
So, Batman is cool...Marvel has more street level stuff that is also cool, quality vs quanity? Not really, there is bad Batman stuff and put together all Marvels street stuff, there is a lot of good spread out
If I'm to let my fanboyism come into play though, The Punisher is the greatest though, fuck the cape crowd sissies.
>>83713506
No, only a good third who have a pet peeve about plot armor.
>>83713541
I have liked Batman stories in the past, but to be honest, Batman himself is one of my least favorite parts of his world. I like the characters surrounding him much more.
Part of that might be bat fatigue.
>>83713458
Spiderman is like the peak of Street tier
>>83712959
Iron Fist isn't street level? That's like saying Nova or Green Lantern are earthbound.
>>83713628
He's street level in the sense that Luke Cage is, and he's spent most of his history with Luke.
>>83713186
Fuck off Chichester was shit but DD has been for the most part solid since, especially the Bendis and Brubaker runs
>>83713032
>Daughters of the Dragon, Dakota North, Sons of the Tiger, White Tiger
Who?
DC is god tier when it comes to street level
Its where they shine the most
Marvel is all about cosmic powered laser adventures
>>83713094
I have to disagree, Batman is actually a very boring character.
>>83713541
>DC only has Batman
What about Green Arrow, Black Canary, The Question, Deathstroke and so on?
That's because i'm ignoring the side-kicks and obscure characters.
>>83713628
The dude's superpower is Kung-Fu.
Sure, he did learn it in a mystical lost city of magic dragon blood and stuff, but it's still just a skill.
There's plenty of street level guys who have top-tier superpowers but go on too many space adventures to be known as common vigilantes.
Look at Hawkeye: Avenger, invading aliens have met their deaths at his arrows, he's timetravelled more times than ... well, a lot, he plays poker with ... THREE gods, the guy's big league.
And what's his superpower? Archery.
>>83713803
just like Superman and the rest
honestly there is a reason why Marvel beats them in sales
>>83713803
>>83713859
Casuals.
>>83713145
God i hate casuals like you
>>83713859
No, that's a dumb train of thought, DC has plenty of amazing characters that bring a lot more depth than Batman.
>>83713872
Sorry that I don't like DC's cash cow, I mean, Batman has had some great comics, and a few of his villains and side characters add alot to the DC Universe overall, I just can't find myself caring about Batman, it's just like Punisher to me; I understand why said characters have such adamant fans, I personally just don't care about them.
>tfw Batman is really doing any street level work and is always shooting beings from other dimensions instead.
>>83713826
Yeah maybe, I'll be honest and say I've really only ever read Batman, so maybe DC has much more that I just don't know about.
Also, in my mind street level is all about setting, I consider something street level when it takes place more or less on the street, and deals with street stuff to some extent in terms of the crime that's being fought, I certainly am no Green Arrow expert but soon as I think of him I automatically think "Justice League", but maybe his solo comics are a lot different
>>83713859
>>83713872
Casuals love DC.
For NewGods' sake, they keep their mythos so simple that a child can keep up, when was the last time Supes, Bats, or WW had a major character development that wasn't completely ignorable five years later?
Superman DIED, was replaced by four different characters, came back from the dead, married Lois Lane, adopted replacement Supes #3 and how long was it before you could pick up an issue and never have to read a word about any of that?
Their selling-point is status quo. nothing ever changes, and when it does a retcon isn't far away. It'll be the same stories your grandfather read that your grandson reads.
>>83714009
??
casuals LOVE marvel
>>83713846
>The dude's superpower is Kung-Fu.
>Sure, he did learn it in a mystical lost city of magic dragon blood and stuff, but it's still just a skill.
No, his super power is the Dragon's Chi, which can and has been stolen from him on more than one occasion.
>>83713519
I feel like Constantine has more of a "street" vibe to him. He might pull some shit in a more magical or metaphysical realms, but most of his stuff seems focused on a more urban fantasy style.
The Dr. Strange I've read seems to be more about inter-dimension travel and such, and less focused in the "real world".
But I've read very little Dr. Strange, while I've read like all of Constantine's related stuff.
>>83713458
>Should Spiderman really be considered street level?
No. May as well consider the Flash Street level if you're going to consider Spider-Man street level. Web slinging mother fucker is traveling through dimensions and making deals with the devil.
>>83714021
Bullshit they do!
Marvel's hell for finding jumping-on points.
How many dumbass threads have been made on /co/ asking how someone goes about catching up with Marv' after dropping a book?
There's nothing casual about figuring out a character history spanning decades of plot twists.
Jeeeeezus, even after they did a retcon to clear out the cobwebs everything went full-on convoluted almost immediately.
(not that I'm complaining)
>>83714009
Hey remember how Spider-Man hasd amazing growth and then Marvel flushed it all down the toilet and he's been a stunted man child for years now? Status quo is the name of the game for both DC and Marvel so lets not pretend that it isn't.
I'd actually argue that Superman had more development than Spider-Man at this point because he actually got to keep his wife and kid
>>83714129
>Marvel's hell for finding jumping-on points.
They have a relaunch every year
>How many dumbass threads have been made on /co/ asking how someone goes about catching up with Marv' after dropping a book?
I've seen the exact same thing with DC since Rebirth started
>Jeeeeezus, even after they did a retcon to clear out the cobwebs everything went full-on convoluted almost immediately.
Yeah the one complaint nobody had with New 52 was how confusing it was, right?
>>83713186
The fuck? Daredevil is consistently good since Vol 2.
>>83714004
Green Arrow comics are all street-level, like my male side-kick is a drug addict and my female sidekick was raped so hard she has AIDs, and also i'm broke and fighting for the common man!
>>83714009
Explain Damian Wayne. Explain Kyle Rayner. Heck, explain current Superman being post-Crisis Superman while Nu52 Superman died but not really.
>>83714070
Dragon Chi? Is that what that is? I always figured the imagery was artistic flourish.
>>83714075
Constantine IS more street', damn-nation, he's Sting chain-smoking in a trenchcoat at night, that's pretty street', but Doc Strange has the same powerset, same abilities, same kinds of enemies, same type of clientele.
If Morrison ever writes Strange they'll probably meet up in the same hell dimension and fight the fourth-wall god.
DC's street-level characters, specially the more obscure ones, are waaay more hardcore.
Take that motherfucker Vigilante, that killed himself. Dude fucking killed himself.
Then you've Wild Dog, which is just another batch of insanity.
While speaking of insanity, what about Hitman and Section 8? Fucking Bueno Excellente, man.
Then there are guys like Simon Dark, the Creeper and so on.
>>83714230
Could Constantine defeat Doctor Strange? I know Strange is the superior sorcerer but besting better magic users is what John is known for. You could make the argument that he is the best "magician" because like real world magicians his strength is in misdirection
Nope. The heroes of Gotham have been the best street level characters since the 70s. What Denny O'Neal started was cemented by the likes of Chuck Dixon and Alan Grant in the 90s. Long before the Nolan movies the fancubs rage about.
Daredevil is Marvel's best and he's just a fill in for writers who'd rather be writing Batman or Spider-Man, which is why his books skew wildly from street crime to wackiness.
>>83713032
>Spider-Man
Really not "street level". He's a pretty standard superhero type.
>>83714167
Wow, you sure are smart mister!
Say, while you're here why don't you explain the Scott Summers' family tree to me?
I'm a bit confused about the relationship between Madelyne Pryor and X-Man Nate Grey, you find that sort of stuff simple, help me out here.
>>83713458
It's all about scale. Spider-Man doesn't really deal with shit on the same level as, say, the Avengers or X-Men. Peter rarely travels outside of New York.
>>83714273
The inglorious basterd who fights the dirtiest wins every time.
Even more so when deals with the Devil are in the arsenal.
>>83714305
First explain to us Hawkman's hystory.
>>83714305
Mom - Dad
Scott Alex Gabriel(Erased from his memory)
Cable with Madelyn Pryor(Clone of Jean)
Nate Gray Test Tube Baby with Jean Gray
>>83714135
Superman didn't "keep" his wife and kid.
The marriage was retconned away, remember? It went bye-bye along with the red underoos.
The wife and kid thing right now (temporary, guaranteed) is the result of another RETCON. There was no progression in the storyline to reach this point, they just skipped back to the idea again.
That hardly counts as character development. Does it?
>>83712959
dc has worst than anime powerlevels.
>>83712959
They may not have Batman and the various Bat family characters, but they have so many great characters that they make up for it.
DC has the best street level franchise, but as a whole marvel's street level is generally pretty great. Certainly much better than their cosmic shit.
My one complaint with Marvel street, and this applies to the Batman and to a lesser extent the bat family as well, is that fucking everyone is an expert in all kinds of martial arts.
It makes sense for Daredevil because of his senses, and it makes sense for Iron fist, but thats it.
I dont know if he really counts as street but Black Panther is so good at hand to hand that combined with the absolute cop out of a plot device that is a vibranium suit it makes a lot of storylines borderline unreadable to me because of how op some characters are hand to hand.
That being said though, Batman does this far more than any marvel character, and for that reason Marvel easily dominates street level in terms of quality.
>>83714373
Too late to be first, but...
Circus trick shot performer turned villian, recruited into Captain America's "reform" Avengers, yadda yadda yadda, became the giant teammember for a span, yadda allthishappenedbeforeIwasborn, Vision formed the WestCoastAvengers and Hawk' seemed "Hollywood" enough, Yaddabbadabbadoo, then Scarlett Witch jinxed his exploding arrow, dirtnap dirtnap dirtnap, Scarlet Witch magic-ed him back to life with an in-universe retcon power, he lost his awesome costume to Bullseye during the Dark Avengers thing and never went back, there were some relationship issues with a non-wife returning to life because Skrulls ...
Dude, I'm not really an Avengers guy, I just don't know.
>>83714280
Spider-Man is the tip of the street level iceburg...or at least that's the way I see it, you can consider him the least street level street guy or the most street big guy, but in any case lots of his antics just take place in the city with what are basically powered street level crooks a lot of times, he fights a lot of guys involved in theft and murder, not as much world conquering earth shattering events
>>83714424
Yeah, but Marv's always been missing a good Superman type in their rosters, I'm pretty sick and tired of superscientists saving the world by being smart.
Senty was a nice tease for a bit...
>>83714502
Hawkman not Hawkeye
>>83714274
I'm a Batfag, but I'm also a DDfag and you're wrong
>>83714557
Dude finds out that he's the reincarnation of alien/Egyptian warrior and that his one truthy love's reincarnation is around here somewhere...
Die. Rinse. Repeat.
Also in the sorta-realm of street-level, but way too sci-fi ?
>>83713736
Daughters of the Dragon are Misty Knight and Colleen Wing (both of whom are coming to Netflix)
>>83713311
Do you think that's why Marvel has had more success in adapting their characters to live action? Maybe because they lend themselves to that more than DC characters?
Who here thinks Captain America is street level?
If Spiderman counts than a guy with a shield and WW2 super-steroids should count too.
>>83714812
moooooot
>>83713826
You mean characters DC either barely uses or constantly sidelines?
>>83714812
Street level is not determined by power levels. It's determined by the types of stories being told. Captain America never runs around grimey back alleys dealing with drug dealers.
>>83714812
Sorry, that wasn't the image I wanted to post.
>>83713736
casualfag
>>83714860
Green Arrow's show is the only reason why Memevil got a shitty tv show.
>>83713773
>DC is god tier when it comes to street level
>Its where they shine the most
What? With only Batman?
Marvel's street level has more variety
>>83714305
You do realize that modern Marvel writers absolutely detest shit like that? They find continuity restricting and confusing, since knowing obscure shit doesn't add anything to the story. I thought a Marvel drone like you would at least know that.
>>83714903
>variety = quality
>>83714557
rekt
>>83714919
>I thought a Marvel drone like you would at least know that.
Marveldrones know about movies, not comics.
>>83714881
>>Implying Marvel Studios looks at DC for inspiration
>>83714657
Can't be way too sci-fi if he only works as sci-fi.
>hurr durr DCs only street level is Batman
Nightwing
Robin
Batwoman
+ various other Bat-characters
Huntress
Catwoman
Black Canary
Green Arrow
The QuestionRorschach
Most of them even had their own critically acclaimed series, while Marvel has only 3-4 street level heroes with actual decent books.
>>83714994
Wouldn't that be a shallow use of Marveldroning? There's far more minutiae in those tons of comics than in the hours of movies.
>>83715099
Does he ever even fight street crime?
>>83715021
Not that I want THAT fight here, but didn't DC declare that they're making "Lois Lane, Superwoman" only after Marvel's Thor storyline became a thing?
>>83715157
Not unless you count street crime _on an alien planet_ "street." No one cares about mace-wielding vaguely-barbarian Hawkman but he does work as a sci-fi policeman type.
>>83712959
No.
>muh daredevil
>muh punisher
literally Hot Topic tier
>all these people completely underselling DC's street level
What the fuck? Forgetting the Bat-family, it's like y'all motherfuckers have completely forgotten their B and C-listers, like the Question, Bronze Tiger, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Lady Shiva, Manhunter, Huntress, the Birds of Prey in general, etc.
DC has a wonderful street-level 'corner'. Marvelfags ITT.
>>83713145
>Daredevil alone has been a consistently better character through time
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>And then you add Spider-man
OH JESUS IM DYING
>>83715141
>thinking I'm going to read those shit characters
I bet none of them even kill people like based Frank. Fuck off.
>>83715144
I don't know any self respecting Marvel fan who considers the recent comics good...anybody swinging the bat blindly for Marvel in terms of CURRENT stuff is obviously Disneyfags
>>83713826
Outside of Green Arrow they all get nothing and are much less varied an interesting when compared to the likes of Daredevil, Punisher, Spidey if he counts, Moonknight, Iron Fist ect.
>>83715282
The Question has killed before iirc
Rorshach has definitely killed before.
Pretty sure Manhunter has killed.
There are definitely other DC street level heroes who've killed before too. Red Hood if you consider him a hero, for one thing.
>>83714274
Except Daredevil took his hard turn into dark gritty stories before Batman did during the end of the Silver Age. Frank Miller even admitted he likes Daredevil more than Batman.
>>83715282
Look, THE Frank is a great character, one of the best ones...
And if there's any character that is street level incarnate, it's HIM.
But he's just a well trained soldier with motivation, how is he really even a superhero if you take away the plot armor that keeps him alive?
You can't dis half the Bat-family and then praise someone not even holding to a superhero morality. It's just tacky.
>>83714273
It all depends on how you define "defeat".
>>83715363
>Black Canary
Had a book just recently that just got cancelled iirc
>The Question
Has had various books in the past, including an acclaimed Denny O'neil run.
>Deathstroke
Has had a push from DC for the past few years now. He had a couple of nu52 titles iirc
>>83715412
>we will never get a miniseries where Frank Miller writes Daredevil one more time
I just want to see what they'd let him get away with.
>>83715412
>>83715446
>Frank Miller in his prime never wrote a Question or Green Arrow series
Literally what in the fuck.
>>83715359
You want to maybe put a few more qualifiers onto that declarative statement before you risk obviously lying?
>>83714230
>Dragon Chi? Is that what that is? I always figured the imagery was artistic flourish.
No, it's legit. It's much more obvious in his older stories where there was an obvious power difference, where normally he fights like a normal martial artist, and then he does the glowy fist and he can punch the head off a robot that he previously couldn't even scratch. Now that he can go entire fights with the Iron Fist on, it's just less noticable.
>>83715459
>before you risk obviously lying?
How? Are you telling me that you know the Marvel fans I know? You're telling me I'm lying when I say all the actual Marvel fans I know hate the new comics, and that the only people I see still blindly waving the Marvel flag don't read comics and are just fans of the Disney movies?
Well fuck me, you have some crazy super powers man....
![tumblr_o4vttkvRGb1sa2z61o7_1280[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/qQfbboZ.jpg "tumblr_o4vttkvRGb1sa2z61o7_1280[1].jpg")
>>83714269
Ennis on Punisher> Section 8
>>83712959
yes
>>83715515
that shitty meme character has nothing over Section 8
LOL FRANKED XD
>>83715501
Anon, here's the important question. When you say "the recent comics good" do you mean you don't think ANY of them are good, or do you mean you think most of them are shit?
And when you say "good" what exactly do you mean? For instance, I enjoy New Avengers, but I also don't get the same kind of enjoyment I get out of it that I get out of, say, Moore's Swamp Thing. It's basically a silly cartoon, but it makes me smile.
>>83715501
>"THERE IS NOT ONE of my closest lactose-intolerant videogame-playing skydiving middle-aged Canadian near-sighted balding friends WHO READ MARVEL that DON'T hate everything that that has been done in the issues with even numbering and were worked on by colorists who's names begin with the letter P.
... That's right, those described think that about Marvel, I'm not lying. Honest.
- (see what we did there?) -
>>83715598
I don't know what you're asking. I'll tell you this much, I was following the new Spider-Man...tapped out, was following the Spider-Man/Deadpool crossover....tapped out, was following the new Iron Man...boring as shit
The most cool thing I've read from Marvel was Carnage and I even tapped out of that though I do plan to go back to it
>>83715614
>- (see what we did there?) -
Yeah, I can do it too though
>THERE IS NOT ONE of my closest gal pals and hipsters who got into comics in the last five years because nostalgia is "in" and the MCU is super kewl who NEVER READ MARVEL but NOW LOVE everything Marvel does because they feel like it's cool now who all wear thick rimmed glasses but don't need them
>>83715626
>Slott's Spider-Man
Yeah, it's shit.
>Spider-Man/Deadpool
It's okay, although the first issue was god awful.
>Bendis's Iron Man
Bendis hasn't written anything good in years.
Have you read Vision, at least?
>>83715641
And that's called "using qualifiers", people who are obviating throw those around to keep from making outright lies, but it's still intentional deception.
I'm amazed at how easily you fuckers slip into /v/ tier habits.
Ennis, at DC, makes Hitman. Which is street level and awesome.
Ennis, at Marvel, makes Punisher Max, which is also awesome.
>>83713846
>>83714070
Cleaner example: Hawkeye in most of his runs is not street level. He's hanging with the avengers, leading the thunderbolts. An exception is the Fraction/Aja run, which is very street level.
Iron Fist, in Heros for Hire is absolutely street level. No question.
>>83715665
I'm just going to post this and then run away:
- I like Bendis' writing, he's good at portraying personalities and keeps adventures lighthearted and fun.-
>>83715733
Most people would argue that "good at portraying personalities" thing.
>>83715141
So majority Batman characters plus a couple of characters DC barely uses?
Point made.
>>83714823
Dare I ask what the pic was?
>>83714812
He CAN be, but he isn't usually used like that. Especially not in recent memory.
Cap punching non powered KKK in the face would be street level.
>>83715452
Did Frank Miller ever do the Punisher?
![(50)[2].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/YR7HcA6.jpg "(50)[2].jpg")
>>83715544
>can only respond with memes
>>83713094
I would agree if they kept Batman street level
>>83715850
>wasting arguments and time with Punisher fans
>>83712959
How can you possibly type that when you know exactly what the other company has? As well liked as the Marvel movies are, there always has been and always will be a deep love for Batman from casuals.
Anyone, anywhere, can write a Batman story and know it's going to succeed. Batman's superpower is basically printing money, and DC knows that, which is why he gets a lot of the quality writers and artists.
Marvel is a fad, but the Batgod is eternal. And even though I and many other nerds suffer from Batfatigue, we still can name at least five runs, one shots, or movies we love about him.
>>83713145
Holy shit man.
Street level stories > cosmic bullshit stories
Come at me. Stories with world ending / universe ending threats or whatever are all boring as shit. Same thing goes in tv/film adaptions as well.
>>83715984
Marvel isn't a fad, the MCU is a fad.
