[rocking intensifies]
[mediocre fetish show intensifies]
Is Lincoln a good boy?
When are the new episodes coming btw?
>>83210560
Yeah. He tries his best. I like him, he's a good kid.
>>83211018
New episodes won't come until the 6th.
>>83211710
Reasonably close. I approve.
>>83211691
The newest Nintendo console I'm familiar with is SNES, in general PS 2 and the only handheld I've ever seen was the original Game Boy.
>>83211750
Welcome, to the world of video gaming, enjoy your stay.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_generation_of_video_game_consoles
>>83210196
[hiatus intensifies]Only till june 6 supposedly, but still bad
>>83211831
I'm already out the door. No thanks.
>>83211903
There is no door here, your here forever.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_generation_of_video_game_consoles
>>83211919
The ride never ends.
>>83211691
Luna is so laidback and chill. Clearly the best Loud.
>>83212646
She is best loud obviously
>>83212785
I just wanna tickle her and make her laugh.
>>83211886
I've been mostly ignoring this show, so please forgive me for not knowing if you guys have a pastebin or anything, but is that the annoying one that makes jokes? In some kind of embarrassing nude situation? Because I kind of need a link if it is.
>>83212954
>the annoying one
No porn for you.
>>83212954
>but is that the annoying one that makes joke
Yes, but she isn't that annoying
>Because I kind of need a link if it is.
check paheal or loud booru - can't post links because mods are fags
Can you guys tell me an episode title that shows Lily's bottom? I'm making screencaps for a future thread and I need her to complete it.
>>83212954
>The annoying one
You just made a powerful enemy today anon
>>83213036
Project Loud House, I think.
>>83213036
>Can you guys tell me an episode title that shows Lily's bottom?
Do you mean a title card?
>>83212985
>>83213028
>>83213244
Yeesh. Sorry. Like I said, mostly gave the show a pass so far. I just like when quirky defense mechanisms get penetrated revealing the insecurities underneath.
>>83213410
No, any part of an episode, not just the title. And not her diaper, her actual bottom.
>>83213365
Thank you.
>>83211886
Dude, it's like only for a week.
>>83213738
Also she shows a lot of bottom in Linc or Swim
>>83213752
Hold that thought: sorry 2 weeks, but it isn't really that big of a hiatus.
>>83213770
Well, it's just a week now since we've already had the first week of hiatus
Looking for screencaps of Lily in profile, if such a thing exists.
>>83213807
>>83213770
I don't even regard that as a hiatus. After fucking Gravity Falls and Star Vs (almost a year) this is refreshingly quick.
>>83213036
mods pls this is for reference
This one is from the pool ep. There's another scene just after this one where you can see it as well.
>>83214808
At least the Star hiatus is between seasons. This all of a sudden two week hiatus in the middle of a season makes no sense.
>>83215002
Much obliged. I'm trying to make a master list of any cartoon girl in this situation. It seems like one of the twins wore no shirt as a hula dancer, is that this episode as well? Thanks again. I'm trying to remember every scene ever made and it's turning into a project.
>>83215074
>It seems like one of the twins wore no shirt as a hula dancer, is that this episode as well?
That's in In Tents Debate.
>>83214748
>>83214769
thanks hoss
>>83213698
I like when she gets "penetrated" too, anon.
>>83215127
Bless you son.
In Tents Debate, Linc or Swim, Loud House Project.
>>83213036
She was naked right in the pilot!
Has the fandom gone too far?
>>83212785
Right!
>>83215611
Every time someone posts a Steven universe/ loud house crossover fan art a child starves to death
>>83215611
>crossovers
>too far
This is the only true, non meme reply, so pay attention.
No.
>>83212785
yes
>>83215611
Pls no
>>83215672
a smiling Lucy is a best Lucy
>>83215611
Nah Lucy is a fun character and ironically not as whinny.
>>83215024
No, I won't forgive anyone the hiatus bullshit. In both cases Disney fucked shit up completely. It's inexcusable and amateurish as fuck.
As for the Loud House hiatus maybe they just wanted to finish some eps or something.
And regarding nudity in Loud House, I honestly salute them for not shying away from it. It adds to the intimate atmosphere of the show and makes everything seem more natural. I'm used to that sorta thing IRL, living in Dalmatia. Our beaches swarm with naked kids and it's about as common and uninteresting as seeing a cloud. Point is I was always bothered by the hysterical US reaction to nudity, so it's refreshing to see something I consider natural.
It's also both amusing and kinda cringy to see some of you make a fuss about it.
Clyde ships Lucy and Lynn.
>>83215806
Yeh, Lori would definitely fit blue guy role
>>83215265
I'm sure she doesn't mind when someone pushes her "buttons"
>>83215806
>>83215710
>>83215829
Well what do you know. A different cultural perspective on a 4chan thread. Not what you normally see every day...
>>83215908
Meme art of Lucy whinnying but Lapis next to her whinnying obnoxiously. It'll happen.
>>83215914
/r/ Lucy playing with Erma
>>83215854
>Not shipping both of them with Lincoln
Figures a Lorifag would have shit taste
>Reading Eddie Puss.
I - I thought you guys were exaggerating.
>>83215923
Thanks but I've repeated the same argument many times over the years.
>>83215930
Please no horses.
Though I can imagine Lucy enjoying this song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xjkxYaUD9E
>The real reason Lisa uses the potty instead of the toilet is because she is afraid of going alone to the toilet at night but is ashamed of admitting it.
>>83215829
I can totally relate to that.
>>83215660
So a normal 10 minute period in Africa?
>>83216625
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes. With your help, we can put an end to this terrible epidemic
>>83215672
Lucy just loves food fights.
>>83216750
She does
>>83216647
Change terrible epidemic with terrible reality
I had a dream today where Lincoln ran away from home on a homemade hot air baloon because he hated his family.
>>83217130
From what we've seen they all seem to love each other very much.
>hot air baloon
How old are you Anon? Anything... odd happened recently to you? Perhaps too odd to be real?
>>83217178
Oh, a chipmunk! I may have a nut or two to feed it
>>83217183
I'm 21, but that's beside the point. Dreams are just fucking weird sometimes. It was kind of depressing too, there were no jokes in the episode and Lincoln was hostile to everyone.
>>83215611
>>83216904
Kill yourself.
>>83217272
>Hot air baloon
Can in certain cases be a sign that a person has been tampered with. Monarch programming. Dissociation.
>>83215672
>mom's spaghetti intensifies
>>83210560
If you mean poor man's Dipper, then yes.
>>83217522
Still no Lynn/Lucy drawings or fics but there's this.
>>83210560
He's a real cutie!
>>83217714
Dipper started out great and ended up as a 100% kosher cuck.
>>83217790
There is no such thing as a Croatian. There are only some Serbs who are catholic.
>>83217746
Maybe that's a sign that you should draw/write some.
>>83218175
Don't make me holocaust you again.
>>83216884
Seeing her smile just makes me so happy.
>>83218334
what is going on here?
>>83217178
need a source
Reminder thatLenois best sister
So, what did Lori do with his bed?
>>83218459
Slobo did nothing wrong.
>>83215829
So is there anything else to do in Dalmatians besides go swimming with beautiful nude children?
>>83218866
Free Karadic, free Mladic!
>>83217130
I strangely can see this when Loud House have a movie.
>>83218459
>>83218866
Keep the Cheeki Breeki discussion outside a cartoon thread.
never watched this show but the color palette is absolutely divine. 'zit any good?
>>83219055
You're right actually.
>>83218914
Allow me to demonstrate. My hometown is over 3 000 years old. It was inhabited by Illyrians before us Indo-Europeans even came here, then it was a Greek colony, then it got conquered by the Romans, and then after some time we came here, conquered it and made it into the capitol of our kingdom. And all that before the 8th century.
The whole of Dalmatia is obscenely rich with cultural relics and history. And beautiful. You cannot comprehend the extent of its roots.
Never antagonize the locals however, or mess with the girls.
>>83219042
It's currently the best show on but I rank it really high overall. The colors and the artstyle are great.
>>83219115
How have the premieres of the past few Nicktoons went?
>>83219227
So, naked kids and dead people. We have dead people here, too, dating back to the Folsom period. They're still dead. What else you got in Serbia besides beachfuls of naked kids?
>>83219569
I know you're trolling, but this is a good excuse to post this.
>>83219569
You mean Croatia?
>>83219677
He's trolling (or a Serb). We usually shitpost against each other in this manner.
>>83219042
It's good enough. A lot of the characters are pretty flat and the episode plus all feel like episodes you've seen everywhere else before, just with 8 more characters than usual. That being said, it's pretty funny and I look forward to seeing if they characterize the sisters a bit better in the future.
>>83219900
I really can't subscribe to that line of thought. I feel that whenever such things are said people forget what kind of show this is supposed to be and get sidetracked due to it. This occurs often with many shows though. Anon goes too far, expects things that shouldn't be expected etc.
It's like being angry at an awesome dog because he can't ride an unicycle. It makes no sense.
>>83219819
Never understood why the balkans act so tough when their history is an history of being conquered and defeated by other better countries
>>83219819
Do you remove kebab?
>>83220060
All those "better countries" did nothing but provide human fertilizer in the long run.
>>83220323
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian%E2%80%93Ottoman_wars
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Years%27_Croatian%E2%80%93Ottoman_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Szigetv%C3%A1r
>>83220016
I'm not saying it needs a running plot line or character development. My expectations are in comparison to a show like Harvey Beaks. A similar "slice of life" show with more creative setups and better use of a crazy cast of characters.
I'd say Loud House is definitely worth a watch and not bad, but it's a little bland on the creativity side.
>>83220564
Opinions vary.
I'm pleased with what I've seen so far.
>>83210560
given his circumstances, he is much less of an asshole and/or wuss as he could be.
>>83220564
Harvey Beaks is the more creative show, but something has to be said of Loud House's crisp delivery. They hit their beats and handle the large cast very well, and that makes almost every episode thus far memorable. As much as I also enjoy Harvey Beaks, I'd be hard pressed to recall any episode in detail.
>>83221269
I actually have the inverse problem. Loud House's premises we've seen all before and the characters all just showing up to do their same schtick every episode gives me the issue of not really recalling what memories belong to what episodes.
>>83220564
>>83221269
Something I just kind of realized is that Loud House can do a lot of stories in such a small setting. All of the plots so far take place either mostly or completely at this one house, except Hand Me Downer where a lot of it takes place outside with Lincoln riding Lynn's bike around. Undie Pressure even manages to do its plot in just the living room, plus a few shots of outside.
>STILL WAITING FOR JUNE
>>83218514
Dipper is still cuter than Lincoln.
Lincoln farted so that automatically ranks him lower than Dipper.
I still like both.
This show will likely have official comics made (which the animators like to make). Will it have its own ongoing like Spongebob, the occasional graphic novel like Avatar or Breadwinners, or will it only have short comics published in Nick magazine?
>>83222280
I'll take the farter over the manlet that sounds like and is voiced by a 35-year-old.But Dipper is still the more fully-realized character.
Are there any download link for TLH episodes like in /sug/? Also wouldn't it make more sense if Lucy was one of the older siblings and Luan one of the younger siblings?
>>83222884
>Are there any download link for TLH episodes like in /sug/?
just go to the loud house general in /trash/.
>>83222599
It's a little unfair to compare their characters since Loud House is in it's infancy.
Are there any download link for TLH episodes like in /sug/? Also wouldn't it make more sense if Lucy was one of the older siblings and Luan one of the younger siblings?
"Morning Lincoln!"
"Whoa, Luan what are you doing?"
"Just knocking on wood heheheheneheheh..."
I need some help, wich one of these looks better?
Also doing some requests.
>>83222997
Personally, right.
Luan.
>>83222932
Ugh, why do anons have to screencap this stuff instead of just copy-pasting it into a plaintext file? Anyone who has it in plaintext?
>shortstack from your favorite shortstack
Uhhhh
>>83222997
Personally, left
>>83222963
There's not going to be character growth in this show. So not really.
>>83219872
who is the artist that draws these
>>83223292
I believe he's just called Ross.
Does Lincoln have a cool older brother-type figure yet?
>>83223339
>you can see the tracing of their panties under their skirts
oh my!
>>83223349
Do not sexualize the Lola!
Lincoln's blood pressure must be through the roof. An episode from someone else's perspective would probably show him as a neurotic OCD kid with plans out everything because he demands structure
>>83223764
meticulously planning out your day is not a disorder like washing your hands 37 times a day is
>>83223339
whoever he is, he's pretty talented
>>83222963
There's no overarching plot, so I doubt Lincoln would ever progress to that level. Not that there's anything wrong with that. The show's focus/format simply does not require that kind of character.
I like how they show these tiny details in the other girls' rooms
Is Leni a buffoon?
>>83215611No, both shows are fine. However, posting about one show in another unrelated thread isn't, and they should only be discussef in their appropriate threads.
>>83224128
Which episode is this from?
>>83224257
Sleuth or Consequences
Help /co/ I think I'm in love with a fictional character. What do.
>>83224392
Live with the sad, cold fact that she isn't real and that she will never love you back
>>83223419
Pretty sure those are just reference lines for drawing the legs.
>>83224392
[Genuflect]
>>83224392
TIME FOR TULPAS
18 year old invisible Luan we can't do that at the dinner table, we'll get in trouble...
When does the show take place?
>before 90's
>during 90's
>during 00's
>present
>>83225199
>Lady Gaga
Present
>>83225234
Please, Lady Gaga hardly has a presence now. I'm thinking the show occurs during 2011.
>>83225199
>Functioning VR goggles
Future
>>83225290
I was taking the 2010's as present.
>>83225199
>smartphones
>VR
>texting
>internet videos
It's the present
>>83225355
fair enough.
>>83225346
shitty VR goggles have existed for years. Hell, Nintendo had a basic VR system setup with their Virtual Boy during the mid-90's.
Also, the Loud family wouldn't be purchasing a HTC Vive or anything that expensive. Anything except Google Cardboard is $400+ easily.
>>83225497
Besides the graphics did look like Virtual Boy
>>83225355
>>83225355
If that's the case, then I'd say present/late 2010's, solely because delivery drones have become officially implemented.
As for the VR Goggles, I thought they seemed like one of those "one-game systems", and didn't seem super advanced due to the graphics(the ones on Lincoln's console games look much better), kind of like >>83225497 said.
Wanna hear a joke?
I just realized why I find this show so endearing, beyond how technically accomplished and well-acted it is.
One of the best decisions this show made was to keep the parents largely out of the picture. Without appealing to authority figures (outside of one gag with Lola which fits her character), Lincoln and the girls resolve problems among themselves. The resolutions feel organic, and the girls are not made out to be enemies. By relying on mutual understanding and concessions, it avoids the grating injustice that seems to dominate shows of this type.
It's almost like a board without mods.
>>83225199
present but lots of handmedown and cheap bootleg from the 80-90-00's
>>83225735
>Congratulations on the first two episodes of ‘The Loud House’ they were amazing! Every piece of it was incredible, from the design, and characters, down to even the smallest aspects like how you approached the portrayal of the parents.
>C.S.: Thank you. The idea early on with the parents was to only show pieces of their body the whole reason behind it being that if the kids could run to the parents and say, “I’m telling!” it wouldn’t lead them to solve their own problems, and that’s exactly what the show is about - a bunch of kids who make their own problems, realise they’ve made mistakes, and work to solve them without running to mum and dad. Having said that, they do run to mum and dad sometimes, but within the context of the story.
http://www.beyondthecartoons.com/meet-the-artist-chris-savino/
>>83224128
there's tiny details in almost every scene.
>>83226013
Luan discovers Dennis Miller, George Carlin, and Sam Kinison
>>83225735
The writing for the ensemble cast works out pretty good. For the most part characters resemble their archetypes without coming off as flat. Except for snarky science sister.
>>83226013
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiWM1fSA8cwVideo extremely barely related
>Lynn Jr
>>83226030
>>83225660
Like the "Literally Lori" post, no Loud House thread is truly complete without this being copied and pasted in here again.
>>83226030
>not
yes
no
maybe
idk
missed opportunities
>>83226030
I'd already seen the magazine posted before, but this is amazing, thank you for pointing this out to me.
>>83226013
Ridiculous cover aside, if you look at the magazine's name and read the featured article titles, you can see that it is, in fact, a fashion magazine. This month's issue is about agricultural news that applies to fashion, such as diet recommendations.
Sigh, ever know what its like to live with 9 sisters and an older brother? Well, don't let my appearance fool you. Here is Lucy's Guide to Surprising Your Siblings When They Least Expect It.
>>83226282WHY CAN'T THIS BE AN EPISODE
>>83223339
Ultrahand. Here's the whole pic, by the way.
>>83226262
"Now that's what I call a sticky situation. Get it?"
>>83226512
I don't get it. Please explain!
>>83216379
>>83225660
>>83226143
I don't think we need more forced memes
>>83226348>season 2
>each sister gets one episode where they narrate
>>83224128
What episode is this from?
>>83227043
Genius
>>83227043Pleeeeeaase.......
>>83227043
That would be an interesting the way I see it going down is like this
Lily would have a very comfy fairy tale setting.
Lisa would have it set up like a note book, stating times and referring to her family as subjects.
Lola would be treating it like a reality tv show making sure she always looks good.
Lana would also make it look like a reality tv show, but think more jack ass or duck dynasty. If you could combined the twins episode it might be better.
Lucy would have it like a set up like a Gothic poem like quote the raven.
Licoln already does his thing, so maybe have an episode with Cylde talking like he's a sidekick in a comic.
Lynn treats it like ESPN sometimes there'll be replays.
Luan would do Gags like MST3K
Luna would do a behind the music thing
Leni Would treat it like an interview I imagine.
Lori I imagine would handle it like twitter there will be #'s
>>83215935He obviously wants Lincoln for himself.But him and everyone else will get cucked by Smug Mexiloli.
I've been seeing people saying Bobby and Ronnie Anne's last names are Santiago, but is there a source of this? Feels like something someone just made up like the Clyde having two dads thing.
>>83226030
>yes
>no
>IDK
>ok
is this a Fallout controller?
>>83228088
>Lori I imagine would handle it like twitter there will be #'s
That would be pretty interesting, just having her live tweet little comments on the bottom of the screen instead of an actual narration.
>>83228433
>I've been seeing people saying Bobby and Ronnie Anne's last names are Santiago, but is there a source of this?
I've found one article that uses that last name.
http://www.justjaredjr.com/2016/05/12/carlos-penavega-returns-to-nickelodeon-with-loud-house/
>>83227043
Savino make this happen or so help me i will find 10 little girls somewhere and make it happen
>>83226410
i must say as a lenifag i appreciate it
>>83222997
They look a little bored but the more blurred lines of the right one give a little of tension even if the expression is a bored one.
>>83215619
LUAN!
I guess one of the reasons the kids are like they are is because Savino himself have 5 sisters. These girls are probably based on his sisters and other writers sisters so even if they are presented with a single trait they actually have depth even if they didn't had the chance to show it on screen yet.
heads up if you want to post the good stuff.
>>>/aco/566943
>>83229439
Savino's actually stated that they aren't based on his own sisters, just named after them. He even said it to his actual sisters because they thought the same thing.
>>83210196
FUCK YEAH! THAT'S MY JAM!
>>83217714
>Dipper
His fucking 12 turning 13 and he still couldn't get his dream girl. While Lincoln on the other hand, his 11 and already has a few girls on his sleeve after a few episodes. Lincoln is alpha as fuck!
Not a lot of progress. Can't say I'll go further than this, too. That's beyond what I can do.
Enjoy, I guess.
>>83230218
NOICE
Will you color it later?
>>83230269
Literally the greatest thing ever.
Also, related pic.
>>83228088
I'd imagine that Lily would have a smart inside female inside voice taking notes about life in her mind, kind of like in the movie "Look Who's Talking"
>>83230218
well at least they don't have ghost eyes anymore, liking it so far can't wait for color if there is going to be one.
>>83230502
Why am i instead hearing the soft buttery narration of Alec Baldwin?shit now its Norm MacDonald
>>83230635
I'm hearingSteve Buscemi
>>83230563
>>83230502
Sorry to dissapoint you guys but I can only sketch. I'll occasionaly come around, so I may doodle some requests later. That's no promise.
There's just something familiar here.The spooky Loud has ghost eyes, tho.
[Spoiler]Yeah, I just watched two episodes til now, sorry again.
>>83230502
Bill Murray.
>>83231170
Well, not like a female Bill Murray, just more smarter and note taking about life in her mind, and even narrating like it's a journal
>>83230502
Actually I imagine it done more flashback-style, like "The Wonder Years." Just find a woman who can narrate in the vocal style Daniel Stern used for adult Kevin Arnold.
>>83228088
All of these sound good but I have to agree with this guy >>83230502
Also couldn't think of anything better for Leni her's sounds so dull compared to the others.
>Accidently onto Garabotaz tumblr
>working on Loud House comic
>It's Lincoln x Lily x Lucy
>mfw
>>83229527
probably a blend of different sisters, not a 100% cartoon version. also he have 5 sisters all named with the letter L?
>>83215914
>>83215933
You meant to Ermac, right?
>>83233732
He isn't going to finish it, and he's most likely just fucking around. Though I am intrigued in what he did do.
>>83234156
>also he have 5 sisters all named with the letter L?
Lori, Luan, Lynn, Lana and Lisa. Lola and Luna were named after dogs his family had. Lily and Lucy were names Chris and his wife would've used if their kids were girls (they ended up with boys). Leni is based off of Lennie from Of Mice and Men.
>>83233732
>>83234207
Nice I hope he finish it. Also wow!
>>83234454
Shota artists avatars
>>83234484
Make extremely hot rule63!
>>83234454
>>83234484
What a fag
>>83234379
>Savino's actually stated that they aren't based on his own sisters, just named after them.
According to >>83234379
So Lily, Lucy and Leni are not his sisters names. So is he calling his sisters bitches?
>>83231170
Their dad looks just like him.
>>83234454
>>83234484
Bless -8.
Bless him, and curse him at the same time.
>>83234652
-8 made an imaginary oneesan but draws himself either as a guy, a shota or an ultra fuckable little shota.
>>83234580
He got you in the faggot paradox. That girl is so hot that you would be a fag if you weren't turned on by her, but that girl is actually a guy so you are a fag for getting turned on by him. The conclusion is the truth that permeates 4chan. Everybody is a faggot.
>>83217183
>>83217130
>>83217272
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRT1XXa2AEg
>>83235101
Fixed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU0dq73VWJ8
>>83234580
1.The lowest of low lifes.
2.A bunt out cigarette.
3.A super girly gay man.
>>83235216
Something that will pop up when the show comes back in 10 or so days.
>>83235148
Idol master and delays this all seems oddly familiar?
anyone else notice they use the "realization ding" sound from spongebob a lot
Ends in sex
>>83235334
Well Luna does want to be a idol.
>start watching the show
>first couple episodes find the plots meh, but like the female charactersand not as fap material
Honestly Lincoln is the weak link, though that's inevitable since his whole role is being a standard everyboy in a family of 10 girls.
Hey there, Lynn Loud here. Living with ten siblings can take a toll on your health, just ask my brother. Not to mention that I have to share a room with a weirdo who likes to write poems all day, barf. That's why I always make sure to get out of the house and enjoy the outdoors, and you can too. I present you: Lynn Jr's Top 10 Outdoor Activities for the Player Who Demands More
>>83235953
Watch "Sleuth or Consequences" or "In Tents Debate", those are great episodes that show Lincoln can be really sweet towards his sisters.
>>83236376
It better include jogging barefoot on hot coals
>>83235425
I noticed it twice, but that was about it.
>>83236376
I'd like to imagine one of these involves her sneak attacking Lincoln.
So, what's up with their parents? They don't believe in condoms or something?
>>83236600
J to the izzy got a jizzy up in that pizzy
>>83236376
I want to imagine the sisters start narrating episodes in s2 because Lincoln starts spending more time with Ronnie Anne, and they reference him not being around as much.
>>83236621
>puzzles are a reference to sex
>>83236751
>Hey dad can we do a puzzle with you and mom?
>>83236811
Glares with unsheathing noises always get me
>>83236600
Clearly they love each other.
>>83236686
Lincoln confirmed for worst girl.
>>83236751
Then why did he invite the whole family to do a puzzle as a group at the end of the episode?Don't even think about suggesting what you're thinking right now.
Lucy episode
>Lynn has become very moody and is leaving blood stains on her bed, so Lucy decides to investigate the matter
>>83236936
But that's how I got to the conclusion...
Requests from the thrash thread.