>Audiences yearn for actually heroic characters in this age where every hack writer thinks he's being subversive and original by writing another anti-hero or making the twist that the good guy is the villain
>Nah's let's just keep doing the same thing we've been doing for close to 30 years over which coincidentally our sales have dangerously decline
They do this shit so much with Superman that I think subversive asshole Superman is basically the default at this point.
>>83186191
Capeshit is the cancer killing comics. Until they die nothing original or creative will happen.
These characters are 60+ years old, I think it's time for them to be retired.
>>83186285
>Until they die nothing original or creative will happen.
New, original and creative things come out every week. Why don't YOU look past the big two and open something good, leave the big two to the kiddies.
>>83186285
On the contrary, it is capeshit what's keeping these hack writers employed. Marvel without the MCU would have been relegated to a minor comic publishing housing. But it is through capeshit that kids now care more for fucking Captain America and Iron Man than Superman.
>>83186237
Literally what? When has the actual Superman ever turned out to be "evil" or anything close to op?
>>83186409
Whenever there's red kryptonite, The Dark Night Strikes Again too I think.
>>83186191
So when does the reveal happen that he was deep cover to root out the real remaining hydra agents and stop the big bad?
Cause we all know it's coming.
>>83186285
Superheros are the only fucking good constant in comics. Shut the fuck up you edgy contrarian bitch!
>>83186237
Remember when Tom Taylor's son asked him if Superman was evil now because he was writing both Injustice and Earth-2?
>>83186466
In two years time and by then I expect Spencer to shit so much upon Cap's run that the only good Cap will turn out to be the one from the MCU.
>>83186466
The reveal is that Red Skull used his Professor Xavier powers to alter Steve's memories. It's clear from the issue. All the red parts in the flashbacks are made up.
>>83186237
No? Injustice is like the only time it's happened in years.
>>83186191
For the life of me I have no idea why faggots are getting this fucking worked up over this shit. I mean red skull has prof x mind powers now and we've seen him use them to change people already. Like why the fuck would you get upset over this like it won't be undone in a few months anyway.
>>83186501
I like (most) capes. But not how they have a chokehold on the American comic industry.
An entire medium should not be dominated by one genre with everything else labeled as indie.
It would be like if all films were romantic comedies, with any other genre relegated to art-house theaters.
>>83186285
Anon, plenty of original and creative stuff is happening and they wouldn't be happening if it weren't for the Big 2.
Writers and artists get gigs and the Big 2 to get their name out there, then they use the money and fanbase they got from it to make Image books. Its your own fault if you're too stupid to read non-Big 2 comics.
>>83186733
Because the people getting upset don't read comics.
>>83186733
>>83186810
It was a plottwist that no one needed and goes against everything Cap did in the canon continuity. Because they released this right after Civil War to trail onto it and is clearly a cashgrabbing stunt from the shocked audiences and lastly, because Hydra was created as a stand-in to the Nazi party in the 40s. The comic was shit and knowing Nick's Spencer work thus far, it is going to be a steaming pile of shit.
>>83186409
>>83186620
Less "Superman was evil all along" and more "Superman becomes evil or is just in general a colossal asshole"
>>83186950
It's not that outlandish, Red Skull has Xavier mindrape powers. People get brainwashed all the time, it's stupid but it's not like it's completely bullshit.
>>83187107
Except they have said it's not brainwash, that this is Steve Rodgers and this is the way it has been all along.
>>83187208
Cosmic Cube
>>83186950
>Hydra was created as a stand-in to the Nazi party in the 40s
No it wasn't.
How does it go against everything Cap did in the canon continuity when they fake memories were only RECENTLY put in there? Also Spencer wrote Superior Foes of Spider-man, which was fantastic, and Assault on Pleasant Hill which was one of the very few actually good Marvel events/crossovers. All of his other books range from mediocre to good. Name a single comic he's written that's be a "steaming pile of shit."
You sound like yet another moviefag pretending to know what the fuck they're talking about so they can get in on the hot new OUTRAGE! How 'bout you go back to twitter, facebook, /tv/, or tumblr and don't come back until you actually start reading the comics you insist on raging about.
>>83187208
Oh well if THEY said it then it must be true. Just like the time THEY said SpOck was permanent and Ross wasn't the Red Hulk.
>>83187208
You're getting rused by their wording. Changing his memories to the point where he is still in his right mind but believes himself to be Hydra isn't brainwashing.
This is like when you non-comic readers thought "Thor is a woman now" meant that Thor literally was sex changed.
>>83187289
Rossfrom Friendswasn't the Red Hulk.
>>83186538
>Professor Xavier powers
How the fuck did this even happen?
>>83186525
That must've been seriously awkward
>>83187208
>Except they have said it's not brainwash
Fake memory implants isn't brainwashing. It's a slight distinction, but enough of a distinction that it's a working loophole.
>that this is Steve Rodgers
It's spelled "Rogers." I know it can be hard to tell how names are spelt when you're only used to hearing them be said while watching movies rather than actually reading the name printed out.
>this is the way it has been all along
They never said that.
And even if they did, Marvel has a very long track record of outright lieing in interviews in order to build hype or throw people off. They also said that Superior Spider-man was permanent and Peter Parker was never coming back and lo and behold, guess who came back and was always planned to come back since day one. How about when they kept insisting that Rabum Alal was a new character so people wouldn't guess the Doom reveal.
They WANT people to rage about it and turn it into a big controversy. They're not about to go out and undermine that by saying "don't worry, he's just being mind-controlled and it will only last an arc" because then no one would give a fuck.
>>83187268
Of course it wasn't. Of course you are going to deny that a comic created by two Jewish men in the midst of WW2 and featuring both the Nazi party and even a more extreme version of nazism in the form of Hydra is not real, because hurr durr I can't see past my own nose without telling someone to go back to wherever they came from.
You are being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian and as bad as any claiming "le pol boogeyman". Spencer has been mediocre so far, but whatever, keep sucking his dick if that's what you want. Who the fuck needed Assault on Pleasant Hill other than to shoehorn characters such as the new Ms.Marvel Kamala Khan and Morales Spiderman?
>>83187338
He ate Xavier's brain.
>>83187457
No, you're just a fucking idiot that doesn't even know basic comic history. I bet you also think that Stan Lee created Captain America.
>>83187457
Zenn, pls go back to tumblr and reblog more posts about how white people are terrible
>>83187338
He stole his body from his tomb and implanted the brain in himself...
>>83187457
Anon, HYDRA was not created in the 40s. That you think that's the case only shows how little you know about even the most basic of comic history.
It still blows my mind people are flabbergasted by the "hero is really a bad guy oh no!" gag. It's comic books. This is a very comic book style swerve and people are genuinely pissy about it. Do people really just want status quo shit that never shakes stuff up for the sake of an interesting story? I mean what next? A to be continued with a hero falling off a mountainous Cliffside.
"Goddamn hacks. How could they just kill off the hero"
"I dunno maybe he'll be show to survive the fall"
"Waugh no he's ruined how could they do this...are you expecting me to believe everything might not be what it seems? If he survives why didn't they reveal that on Twitter thus assuaging my fears and removing any incentive to purchase next months issue?"
>>83187457
>Who the fuck needed Assault on Pleasant Hill other than to shoehorn characters such as the new Ms.Marvel Kamala Khan and Morales Spiderman?
What the fuck are you even talking about? You don't even know what Assault on Pleasant Hill was, do you?
Why is it that its always the people that don't even read comics in the first place that are always the most anally devastated by the shit they "think" happens in comics.
>>83187457
>Who the fuck needed Assault on Pleasant Hill
The end result of Standoff was the return of the classic Thunderbolts and Steve getting de-aged. These are two things that true comic fans (unlike you) have been clamoring for. I hate how anytime there's a big "controversy" this board gets flooded by casuals who don't know what the flying fuck they're talking about yet insist that they're such big comics fans.
>>83187825
No one gives a fuck about what Chris Evans thinks or not. MCU Steve is completely different as an overall character to comicverse Steve, with the exception of Ultimates Steve.
>>83186733
>>83186810
It was already officially stated not to be mind control.
>>83186739
Spend five seconds on google.
The indies are BOOMING and a lot of it is because of the Big 2 giving indie creators enough work to get their name out there.
>>83187918
And fake memory implants isn't mind control. Not to mention
>falling for Marvel's ruse cruise
Be honest, you've never even visited /co/ before this "controversy" blew up, did you? Because guess what Marvel does everytime they create one of these manufactured controversies for the sake of easy publicity.
They lie. Always and without fail.
>>83186191
>>Audiences yearn for quippy characters in comfy, episodic, SoL settings that won't offend them or trigger their delicate sensibilities.
>>83187825
>play as the honest, apple-pie style Captain America in films, really dig the character and what he stands for
>some shmuck writer has the character I play as kill one of his friends and "hail hydra"
i'd be pretty pissed too, Chris is pretty attached to the character.
>>83187983
>everytime they create one of these manufactured controversies
Actually, this one isn't manufactured. Marvel hasn't pushed hard on this one; it's just that its arrival coincided with the existing #GiveCaptainAmericaABoyfriend fad and they clashed.
>>83188051
Who the fuck cares? Steve Rogers in the movies is pretty much UltimateSteve. He has nothing to do with the input of the character other than selling more Halloween Costumes.
>>83188116
what? no he isn't, he's practically "Awe shucks" Old School Steve, like, pre 90's fucking steve.
Ultimate Steve brutally kills people in fits of rage.
>>83186191
It's little wonder that Captain America is now a fascist as America itself slides towards despotism under the GOP.
I'm sure a big fruity gay cap would be great and not at all stupid or contrived.
>>83188159
And doesn't MCU Steve? He's pretty willing to kill Tony for MUHH BUCKAROO BANZAI HUSBANDO in Civil War and just stops when he snaps out of it.
>>83188236
he clearly wasn't going to kill Tony, also "616" WAS going to kill Tony but had to BE stopped.
>>83188256
Of course not, because ramming your shield over and over again over what's basically your pacemaker and the only thing stopping shrapnel near your heart from killing you isn't attempted murder. 616 Steve was going to kill Tony because in the comics Civil War was convoluted as fuck and shat upon all the character interpretations of them so far.
>>83188364
Tony had the Shrapnel removed years ago, you do know this right?
>>83187971
This. So much this. It's like the people complaining about too much capeshit have never gone out of their way to read anything outside of capeshit. Christ, the big thing with Marvel and DC writers now is to make it big for three years or so writing a good arc for a moderately big time hero, then jump ship and write the stuff they want to. The shit spawning outside of capes has actually been pretty good and pretty varied, so let's stop pretending it doesn't exist.
>>83188116
>Steve Rogers in the movies is pretty much UltimateSteve
Not even remotely.
>>83188084
>Actually, this one isn't manufactured
It's cute that you think this. They put out a fucking press release two days before it came out saying how it was going to trigger people and be the most talked about and controversial thing they've done in years. They had interviews lined up before the issue even came out so they could double down on it.
>>83188116
>UltimateSteve.
You don't read a lot of comic books don't you?
>>83186191
where were you when Red Skull became America's savior?
>>83187918
>ITS NOT A HOAX
>ITS NOT A DREAM
>ITS NOT AN IMAGINARY TALE
heard it all before, theres going to be an asspull and the status quo will be back
>>83189113
>/pol/cucks needing to find some sort of self-reassurance in their belief system through a fucking comic book
>mfw
>>83188165
get deported faggot
>>83189172
My ancestors were the First Nation in America.
Why don't you go back to Europe?
>>83188012
>audiences want archie
>>83189172
>>83189193
Quiet
>>83189113
Didn´t this guy throw a baby out a window or something?
>>83188364
You dont know anything about anything going on here.
>>83189193
Sure they were, Senator Warren.
Sure they were.
>>83186237
Not really, that only happens in Elseworlds and Red Kryptonite doesn't really count, since the readers know that it's not him being a villain.
>>83186191
That's why Flash is best boy. Barry or Wally, doesn't matter.
>>83189113
>they try to write him as a villain and he sounds more like a good guy
sjws are retarded lmao
>>83189460
No, you're thinking of Ultimate Red Skull.
>>83188116
>Only input an actor has on a comic book character is selling more Halloween costumes
wut
>>83187908
>No one gives a fuck what handsome, A-list actor thinks about character he plays
In what world
>>83188364
>He didn't watch IM3
...well, that IS a little understandable...
>>83186191
>>83195087
>>83188051
>>83188159
Fuck Off Tumblr
1. 99% of all the people flipping their shit over this don't read comics or at the very least don't buy floppies. The point of a move like this is to rustle jimmies and get people excited about it whether that translates to sales or not. So in a broad sense this move is successful in getting people to at least care.
2. It's obvious that this is either the result of the cosmic cube's influence as hinted at in Sam Wilson Cap #7 or Cap is simply going undercover and it's revealed in a flashback towards the end of the story that his mom never took the flapper up on her invitation to join Hydra.
>>83195087
>marvel then
>marvel now
That applies to DC too.
