The problem with DC in the films is that they are completely defined by the Marvel movies, a shadow that is incredibly difficult to move out from.
The Marvel cinematic universe has essentially written the playbook on how to write a blockbuster film. Make a standard action-fare film, cast incredibly likeable actors and have the interplay between them and others to be one of banter. Throw in a few jokes and some sort of tie in or lead up to another film, rinse and repeat.
Which is not to say all Marvel films are in any way good, but there's a uniformity of tone in that if you enjoy one, you'll probably enjoy them all albeit to different degrees.
DC's issue is that they will forever be judged not just as films, but against the Marvel films to a degree that doesn't happen in other genres. A comedy film that comes out isn't expected to be funnier than the most successful comedy of all time, other wise its shit. It can stand on its own for the most part.
DC therefore have the problem of having to make something distinct from Marvel. Marvel have the monopoly on the action balanced with levity of interplay, if DC do that, they're seen as aping what many could and would describe as a superior version.
Whether you like the Marvel films or not, the fact that they are one of, if not the most successful film franchises of all time. DC trying to create the same is a tall order made harder by the inevitable constant expectation they are expected to live up to.
And no I'm no Marveldrone or DCuck. The company war was started by tongue in cheek jibes by Stan Lee in the letters pages of the comics, a man who played golf with the DC people at the weekend. It was never supposed to be serious and if you in any way treat it as such you're a fucking moron. If you like it, read/watch it, if you don't, don't.
The problem with DC movies is Zack Snyder.
>>83181525
/thread
>>83181525
>>83181546
Fucking seriously, OP.
The problem with the DC films is that they are fucking terrible, and that's largely due to who's making them.
It's fucking pathetic to blame everything on Marvel.
How about DC tries making actually good movies first?
>>83181525
Oh Zack Snyder is certainly a problem, but I feel DC have a mountain to climb in adapting their franchises on top of the already existing one that all films have in the form of the ever present supposed "gold standard" that is the MCU
>>83181525
But OP is saying that DC was forced to take Synder to create a unique look and feel to the DCEU that is in direct opposition to the the MCU because if they didn't, they'd seem like a cheap knockoff.
You're looking at the symptoms, not the disease itself.
Besides, Snyder isn't what was wrong with the movie. It looked fine.
That's the director's primary job, and he did it well.
The issue was the piss poor writing. All the complaints you have about the movie can be traced down to the writing.
And who wrote it?
A total noob who adapted Argo (which had so many problems), and fucking Goyer.
The writers never get enough credit for a good movie nor enough hate for a bad one.
>new Marvel movie
I wonder if this will finally be the bad one.
>new DC movie
I wonder if this will finally be the good one.
Seriously OP, >>83181525 fucking nailed it. They weren't doing so bad with the Nolan films. What the fuck do you think changed?
>it's a "it's not our fault these movies suck, it's everyone else's fault" episode
>>83181525
>Snyder is bad
not a fan of this meme tbqh
>>83181606
Nolan's Batman films were smash critical and commercial successes. Knock this whining bullshit off.
>>83181653
Squirrel Girl
Gwenpool
>>83181471
What comic or cartoon is this thread about?
>>83181676
>Nolan's Batman films were smash critical
Well, except for the last one.
They phoned that one the fuck it
>>83181657
Calling something a "meme" doesn't make it less true, anon.
Snyder is shit. He's always been shit. Everything he has every produced is shit. Snyder is a major problem with the DCEU.
>>83181645
The Nolan films were written and made before Avengers came out and changed the game though.
Their biggest contemporary point of comparison was probably the Rami Spider-Man movies, and the third one of those soured the perception a little
>>83181525
You say that as if DC movies weren't already shitty aside from the notable exception of the Nolan movies, and that if they were to get rid of Snyder and his hack directing, everything would be fine. I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but that's just not true. They could get someone completely different for their movies, and it still would probably be someone shitty, and come out bad, because these are the people that keep giving Snyder a job in the first place. Don't believe me? Just look at the people they got for Wonder Woman. They got the cinematographer from Fant4stic and the writer of Pan, for God's sake.
>>83181471
Man of Steel was an 8.5/10 for me, Dawn of Justice a 10/10.
>>83181645
Why did they pick Snyder for MoS and BvS?
Because he was the total opposite to Marvel's style.
If it wasn't him, it'd be someone else to make grey and gritty movies.
>>83181471
It's just a way of blaming the incompetence of a studio for producing good movies to Marvel.
Just make good movies.
>>83181717
Fantastic was a fine to good looking movie though.
>>83181715
Snyder is a mess.
Snyder is a waste.
>>83181752
No it wasn't. It had some of the blandest, ugliest framing I've ever seen in a cape flick.
>>83181618
Director also tends to have a big hand in shit like editing, sound direction, scoring, choreography, casting the actors and DIRECTING them, etc. Even if they didn't write it, it's very much their films. And while I never saw Batman vs Superman, I have seen Man of Steel and holy crap is Zach's direction laying it on think. Everything tries to be moving and "epic" by giving everything a very inspiration-sounding score and everything moment of pathos and achievement just ends up feeling forced with no proper buildup. Excess is the only thing Snyder knows how to do.
I find that films are rarely cases of "amazing directing, shitty script." "Prometheus", directed by Ridley Scott and written by some jackoff who worked on Lost, is a rare example of this. Even terrible scripts can be saved with good directing. The Star Wars prequels could have very well been great movies if they were more competently directed.
>>83181525
First post best post as usual
>>83181471
Where does Fox fit in this?
No. The problem with the DC films is that they are bad movies.
I'm down for a dark Superhero story if it's well written. I'm interested in an elseworlds grim Batman if the movie earns that by showing respect for the character's core concepts. I'm ok with a grimdark Superman IF WE COULD GET ONE FUCKING GOOD MOVIE FIRST WHERE THEY DIDN'T PULL THAT SAME TIRED SHIT YET AGAIN INSTEAD OF HIRING SOMEONE WHO CAN WRITE SUPERMAN. Goddamn.
Look just give me a fun movie where the characters I know and love interact in a compelling narrative that is concluded in a satisfying manner due to the resolution of character arcs within a two hour runtime. Is that so difficult? How big was your budget again? How many unknown artists die in obscurity? Fuck you for wasting our time.
The Mouse can suck my cock. I WANT to like your movies DC. Stop shitting the bed.
>>83181653
>>83181807
Snyder is a big, fat mistake.
>>83181715
Hey, another meme!
Do you even have the ability to write your own words?
>>83181741
>>83181741
But that's just it: DCU isn't living in MCU's shadow. They're living in Nolan Batman's shadow. They're trying to capture that gritty style of the films that made a shitton of money, and failing.
>>83181781
No, that honor goes to the first Avengers movie.
>>83181618
But GL was basically a cheap knock off and no one said it was shitty cause it was a knock off. They said it was shitty because it was a shitty film
You need to stop creating victim complexes and "explanations" for why DC is fucking up and just face the facts that they are just fucking up, no outside help needed
>>83181618
>The writers never get enough credit for a good movie nor enough hate for a bad one.
While I completely agree with this statement, they don't shoulder all of the blame.
Look at Jesse Eisenbergs Lex Luthor. Go get a copy of the script for a scene and read it in Clancy Brown's voice. It doesn't make the lines any better or worse, but the delivery can change everything in regards to how a character appears on screen.
There's a reason why people say that the scene on the rooftop with him threatening Superman is the only bit of the film that seems remotely Lex Luthor. Its because his delivery changes from being one of weirdly whimsical to that of a smug prick who has someone they despise backed into a corner. Its still not played brilliantly, but its far more Lex Luthor.
>>83181840
I don't know what to tell you man. You can already see it in the footage they've released for Wonder Woman. Those bland, shitty Fant4stick visuals again, except this time, they're trying to be a dime-store Larry Fong too. I had high hopes for that movie until I saw that footage.
>>83181741
They picked him cause out of the pool of directors they had (which included pitches from Duncan Jones, the guy that did Cloverfield, and the guy that did Bay's TMNT), Snyder's was the closest to a Superman movie for WB
>>83181618
Nope.
On MoS:
>Here’s what Snyder said in 2013 about Superman killing Zod:
>In the original version of the script, he just got zapped into the Phantom Zone. David [S. Goyer] and I had long talked about it, and Chris [Nolan] and I talked long about it. And I was like, “I really think he should kill Zod, and I really feel like Superman should kill him.”
>This account is backed up by Goyer, who, in the same podcast, said that Nolan told them there was no way they could have that ending. He flat out told them not to write it. Goyer added that they talked to people at DC who told them “No way. No way.” Which Goyer and Snyder apparently didn’t see as a logical reading of the character, and more of a challenge to find the one situation where Superman would kill. Snyder said, later in the Empire podcast, “I just felt like we were able to create this scenario where either Superman is going to see these people get chopped in half or he’s gotta do what he’s gotta do.”
http://io9.gizmodo.com/a-brief-history-of-zack-snyder-defending-the-end-of-man-1763888746
>>83181783
The difference between something being authentically "epic and inspiring" and only have the appearance of that is ultimately down to what happens.
And what happens depends on the writers.
Yes, the director is important, but the writers decide what story to tell.
It's like in a comic book, you give credit to the writer if it's good or bad. Not the artist.
A big complaint about MoS was that Superman seemed so indifferent to the destruction around him. While the director could have told the actor to look pained or what have you, the people who decided what should happen (i.e. not go out of his way to explicitly reduce collateral damage), are the writers.
I think Snyder can be fine when giving a good script.
300, I think, is a movie that really makes it work with Snyder's "epic and inspiring" aspirations.
The problem is they followed in the footsteps of Marvel's biggest missteps. They pulled an Age of Ultron and shot a three or four hour film and attempted to cut it down. They did an Iron Man 2 and spent too much time in the main movie trying to set up future movies. And they failed like Thor 2 in that they really didn't know what they wanted to do with the characters and had too many ideas tossed in and out until the end result was just a bland mess.
Also, WB hates superheroes and thinks it can fix all its problems by adding more Batman.
>>83181810
>The problem with the DC films is that they are bad movies.
Nah they're pretty good.
>>83181926
On BvS:
>Zack Snyder was always aiming for a Batman/Superman showdown akin to the famous De Niro/Pacino restaurant scene in Michael Mann’s Heat. “That was my mantra,” he says. “I kept saying: ‘we need the Heat scene, we need the Heat scene’. But I came to the conclusion that they couldn't really talk in their suits with any credibility. We had to get them back in their civvies.” The scene where Clark and Bruce meet at Lex’s party, dressed in non-superhero clothes, was thus conceived.
>It was, says Snyder, an issue of tone - marrying the dark approach of DC’s burgeoning cinematic universe with its somewhat camper comic origins. “When they're in their super-suits, it was impossible [to get the Heat scene]. We tried it. It was just one of those things. If there are more than four or five lines, you start to notice – wait, these are two guys dressed up! One guy's dressed up like a bat and the other one has a big red ‘S’ on his chest, and it reads super serious...”
http://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/batman-v-superman-zack-snyder-10-things/
It's all Snyder. Everything people hated about these movies was Snyder, though Goyer obviously didn't help.
>>83181752
>Fantastic was a fine to good looking movie though.
Oh my god, how desperate are you right now?
It's not even a DC movie, you don't have to pretend it had some good aspects to it. That movie looks terrible. Do I need to bring up the Baxter Building's shit CGI or the disappearing tank?
>>83181933
This is a shill thread.
>A big complaint about MoS was that Superman seemed so indifferent to the destruction around him. While the director could have told the actor to look pained or what have you, the people who decided what should happen (i.e. not go out of his way to explicitly reduce collateral damage), are the writers.
Nope, wrong.
See >>83181927
>>83181951
>sprcial effects
>anything to do with the DP
wew lad
>>83181838
But Nolan's style is nothing like Snyder's.
Nolan was all about "realism" and washed out colours.
Snyder cares a lot less about appearing real and loves his over saturated colour scheme
>>83181471
/co/ can't really be this dumb, right? OP, the problem isn't that their living in Marvel's shadow. It's true that they're more successful but it doesn't dictate what people like. The problem is literally Zack Snyder. There are only two movies out from the DCEU so far and they're both made by that hack.
>B-But Marvel made it so people can only like quips and funny cape movies!!
No, they can't brainwash people. Audiences have love dark movies before and nothing but bad writing is stopping them from loving another dark movie. If the movie is good, people will LIKE it. If the movie is shit, people will HATE it.
TL;DR: At least wait until DC has a movie not made by Zack Snyder before you start calling them trash.
>>83181933
Good one, anon.
>>83181471
DC's biggest problem is terrible producers, directors, cast, and script.
Their cg work and fight choreography is terrible too but if all the above was good it wouldn't matter.,
>>83182055
So you agree with him?
>>83182008
>>B-But Marvel made it so people can only like quips and funny cape movies!!
That's not what he's saying at all.
He's not saying that audiences only want Marvel movies, he's saying that DC was forced into a dark and gritty tone by Marvel's levity.
If you make the two movies universes too similar, then both will make less than if they were different.
In order for maximum profit, DC chose to make their cinematic universe different in styling than the MCU in order not to directly compete.
it was likely the right idea to do, but they're just fucked up the execution.
>>83181692
That's true. But the point is just being "dark" isn't the problem. The Dark Knight is routinely hailed as one of the best cape films ever, and made a mountain of money.
The new films do badly because they are bad.
>>83182037
>fight choreography is terrible
Batman_Warehouse.webm
>>83182073
Explain Fox movies then.
>>83181740
Then your opinions do not and can not every have any value or meaning, anon. You're broken inside.
>>83182037
Cast was OK, I think
I mean Caville's a little balding, but he otherwise can act and look the part fine.
The issue is that a puppet is only as good as the one pulling the strings.
>>83181933
OK WB shill. You make a compelling argument.
Your stubborn refusal to hear what your audience wants is why you deserve to go bankrupt.
I know you have adopted a "Transformers" marketing strategy of encouraging us to pay for your product so we can have fun hating it, but... I'm not buying. I wont be paying money for your bad movies. I wont watch your bad movies. Stop disappointing me. You wont get my money.
>>83182083
You mean the cartoony fight with video game physics?
Yes, that's the best dc has to offer.
>>83182107
Moves made by somewhat competent filmmakers. Except Apocalypse
>>83182107
They're imitating the MCU style and it's working.
You can't really predict how markets will react.
DC probably wanted a bigger piece of the pie than they would get if they did the same.
>>83182132
Do all Marlel fans think bait like this is good?
>>83182113
>Cast was OK, I think
>Gadot, Momoa, Ezra Miller
Are you stupid?
>>83182073
>he's saying that DC was forced into a dark and gritty tone by Marvel's levity.
It's more like this, DC tried launching their cinematic universe with Green Lantern which was light but bombed hard. The Nolan Films and even the Burton films were dark and did good. They obviously thought that was their best route and took that direction. Marvel has zero blame for the tone and feel of DC movies.
>>83182132
>Video game physics in a film where one of the two named characters can break physics
Okay
It's a collective fuckup, Zack is just an easy face to pin it on (though he deserves the shit he gets). And you can like MoS/BvS, because there are things to like in them, just don't be fucking delusional thinking they're great films.
>>83182147
>baits not good
>takes bait anyway
>>83182145
>They're imitating the MCU style
Fox has had their own style since the 00s.
>>83182120
ok
But you're gonna be the one missing out on top quality content.
>>83182055
Que?
>>83182225
In what ways does it differ from the current MCU style?
Reminder that Joss "Quipster" Whedon helped write X-men 1
>>83182145
>They're imitating the MCU style and it's working.
It's working in what way?
Deadpool is the only example in 16 yeas.
>>83182233
I don't believe you.
>>83182200
Right, I'm sure that Marvel and their runaway success is in no way ever mentioned in meetings to decide how the next DC films are made.
Marvel are discussed in meetings outside of comic book movies. Why do you think so many other studios are desperate to recreate that shared universe magic?
>>83182265
First Class and DOFP made good money too.
>>83182120
Different anon, but the funny thing is Transformers at least managed to make a lot of money.
Snyder and DC even fuck up fucking up. If you're going to make shit, at least make profitable shit. They can't even manage that.
Transformers got 5 movies out of their crap. It's uncertain at this point how long the DCEU will even last at this rate.
>>83182299
>First Class
>good money
No
>>83182287
Except the Nolan films were huge successes and highly praised (well, the last one not so much).
They had a template for making good, profitable films. They fucked that up.
>>83182287
Not only is this true, but Marvel also pre-emptively cucks competitors.
It's a back and forth behind the scenes war.
Remember that Cap 3 was only made into Civil War because of the announcement of BvS.
And they placed the release date on the same day that BvS was supposed to come out.
I wouldn't even be surprised if they got a script from BvS early and made the "mom" twist was better in CW than BvS. Just to twist the knife
>>83182233
The great thing is soon the whole world will be missing out on this "top quality content" because Snyder is busy running the DCEU into the ground!
>>83182401
>And they placed the release date on the same day that BvS was supposed to come out.
And made DC blink and move their shit movie like the bitches they are.
>>83182401
No, Disney called the date first, BvS was delayed from 2015 to the Disney date in 2016, then they back out
>>83182250
>In what ways does it differ from the current MCU style?
That they make team movies as their main features, and spin off solos only when they think that solo has cash-cow potential, like Wolverine, rather than taking risks on solo movies before reaping the profits with crossovers.
In addition, they've got a much stronder focus on their socio-political allegories, which the MCU only dabbles in, and are more willing to make a violent film in order to attract a more adult-male action-movie audience, rather than wide-ranging general audiences.
>>83182401
BvS placed its release date on the day Cap 3 had already announced.
I'd rather live in a world where DC does its own thing and Marvel does its own thing. Too much Marvel and I'd get bored, shown by how boring Civil War was.
>>83182355
Nolan was good at writing comedy, but not so good at everything else. There weren't many memorable moments. Sure it was profitable, but I wouldn't say it was very good.
>>83182287
Oh, and how do you suppose that board meeting went?
>"Hey, you guys see that very successful formula Marvel is doing? Fuck that shit! We're doing the exact opposite. Nothing can go wrong "
You think the fucking huge success from the Nolan films didn't have any play into the current direction they're taking?
>>83182401
>>Remember that Cap 3 was only made into Civil War because of the announcement of BvS.
That's a good thing. DC forces Marvel to step up their game. This is why DC needs to do better so they can prop each other up, not die out
>And they placed the release date on the same day that BvS was supposed to come out.
No, it was the other way around
>>83182442
>>83182450
>Marvel straight up puts their movie on the BvS day
>and DC flinches
That's how you can tell who is winning
>>83182438
Can you imagine the total disaster if DC didn't move BvS down?
It would have been a holocaust
>>83181471
Are posts like this what happens when people get caught in the business rhetoric of filmmaking?
>>83182472
You moron, it's not like they're both exclusive.
The meeting probably discussed how they're going to compete with Marvel.
They evidently decided to imitate their style was a bad idea and so they went with what worked with them in the past.
Hey Warner Bros, I just shat the bed this morning. Give me two hundred and fifty million dollars USD so I can do it again.
>>83182496
Again, other way around. WB moved BvS to the Cap 3 date, knowing that was the Cap 3 date. They basically tried to wave their IP dick around and Disney had none of it, told them to shove it, and didn't move.
Then the WB execs probably started seeing the dailies coming in and went
>fuck we made a huge mistake move this shit as far away from them as possible so we can actually recover some money from this
Imagine a situation where they're both released on the same day. Disney would have lifted their embargo a month earlier like they did, and rolled out the international release a week before. Meanwhile, WB embargoed reviews until the week off, and did a day 1 world wide release. So we're going into the weekend of the 6th with one movie having the insane hype it ended up getting, and the other one being BvS.
Fuck, even by the Wednesday when the embargo had been lifted it was already going to the shitter. Imagine A SECOND FRESH REVIEW and add in an even smaller box office number as people would have actually had to choose
>>83182633
>Fuck, even by the Wednesday when the embargo had been lifted it was already going to the shitter. Imagine A SECOND FRESH REVIEW and add in an even smaller box office number as people would have actually had to choose
I think there would have actually been suicides if that happened
>>83181759
Snyder is a big fat mistake
>>83182460
They're doing that and DC gets punished for it. Most of the reviews are just complaints about DC not copying Marvel's style.
>>83182355
I don't think you quite grasp how Marvel changed the game where Hollywood and pop culture is concerned. There's a reason why so many films and tv shows based on nerd ephemera are being produced.
Avengers is one of the most successful films of all time and it came out of left field, using a strategy of combining distinct separate films that hadn't really been done before outside of a cheep ploy of having monsters from horror movies fight each other to revive tired franchises.
And it did it using something so quintessentially nerdy that people who read comics were stereotypically seen as on par with people who play dungeons and dragons or watch Star Trek. Nerdy eternal man child social outcasts who live in their parents basement.
Yes there had been a rise in nerd culture bubbling away before this, and yes a lot of people like the Christopher Nolan films, but the Nolan films were not game changing in the way Marvel are.
You want a sign of reaction? Look at the CW. Arrow started out as a show about a vigilante in the grim gritty and realistic tone of the Nolan films. They didn't call him Green Arrow and supers were a no no. Then the Avengers came out and they wanted some of that sweet interconnected universe money and went and made the Flash and now Arrow trips over itself to embrace and reference its comic roots.
Look at Harry Potter. Its getting a spin off movie in Fantastic Beasts.
"Nerd culture" is high currency right now. We're getting a World of Warcraft movie, Star Wars is back, Star Trek is returning next year. Preacher is a series now. The list goes on.
Films debut at comicon now for fucks sake.
Now Avengers isn't 100% completely responsible for all these things happening, as I said there was an undercurrent of nerd culture rising, but a film in a genre that has a fairly substantial fan following became one of the most successful films of all time, and it legitimised so called nerd culture in the eyes of pop culture in general.
>>83181680
are popular, what about it? oh you dont particularly like them? well you know what, thats what happens in the world, sometimes there are popular things that you dont like, and you just have to not be a baby about it
>>83182553
Anon, they did imitate their style with Green Lantern. That was supposed to launch their cinematic universe They obviously went the route that gave them the most success before.
Did you honestly expect a movie directed by Zack Snyder (the man who said Nolan films weren't dark enough and wanted Batman to be raped) to be light and humorous if Marvel didn't make that formula popular? No, their films were going to be dark regardless of Marvel's popularity.
Snyder is probably the best comic book director in Hollywood, honestly >>>/tv/70028735
>>83182907
>Did you honestly expect a movie directed by Zack Snyder (the man who said Nolan films weren't dark enough and wanted Batman to be raped) to be light and humorous if Marvel didn't make that formula popular?
Are you implying that Snyder was always fated to direct BvS?
Why are you think that that decision happened in a vacuum?
>>83181471
>DC cartoons weren't defined by Marvel Cartoons
DC just shys away from what people know and love because they pick people that think being comic booky is bad.
That's why x-men movies keep teasing the 90s cartoon lineup nearly every movie. They know what people want but they're not going to give it.
>>83181680
Exist because of Harley Quinn. But go ahead blame Marvel for marketing to a cancerous demographic DC proved profitable.
>>83182907
So what you're saying is he's right, they would have discussed both Marvel and Nolan?
Because if, as you claim, The Green Lantern film was designed to ape Marvel then surely that would have been the thing they said
>We tried to copy Marvel, it failed, we should do our own distinct thing.
>Nolans films worked before,
>Hey that's great, we could market ourselves as being the antidote to Marvel, as a studio that takes superheroes more seriously
Marvel is the elephant in the room that would need to be addressed from the off, namely, what makes them so successful?
>>83182969
Not fated but he was hand picked by Nolan who was responsible for DC's most successful trilogy. They're not going to just ignore his recommendations. And WB weren't going to green light another light hearted movie after the failure of GL.
>>83182907
> (the man who said Nolan films weren't dark enough and wanted Batman to be raped)
Blatant lying. Post the full quote.
>>83183131
>"Everyone says that about "Batman Begins." "Batman's dark." I'm like, "Okay, no, Batman's cool." He gets to go to a Tibetan monastery and be trained by ninjas. Okay? I want to do that. But he doesn't, like, get raped in prison. That could happen in my movie. If you want to talk about dark, that's how that would go."
http://www.businessinsider.com/zack-snyder-old-interview-batman-prison-rape-2016-5
>>83181471
Fuck I wasn't expecting that gif
>>83183131
>Everyone says that about [Christopher Nolan’s] Batman Begins. "Batman’s dark." I’m like, okay, "No, Batman’s cool." He gets to go to a Tibetan monastery and be trained by ninjas. Okay? I want to do that. But he doesn’t, like, get raped in prison. That could happen in my movie. If you want to talk about dark, that’s how that would go.
>http://www.ew.com/article/2008/07/17/watchmen-chat-director-zack-snyder/2
>>83181525
Ya beat me to it.
>>83183167
He's talking about Watchmen, where a character is nearly raped, not saying he wants to rape Batman.
>>83181896
>Cavill grabbing his throbbing cock
MMMMHHHH
>>83183167
Way to totally miss the point of what he's saying.
He's not saying "I want to rape Batman in my movie".
He's using an exaggerated example to say the type of consequences he would deal with.
He's right in a way.
Oh no, Bruce Wayne's life is soooooo miserable. His low point is being trained by real ninjas.
>>83183199
He wants to rape everyone. He shoe horns rape into nearly all his movies and would all of them if studios didn't need a PG13.
>>83183167
Just as planned.
>Okay, no, Batman's cool." He gets to go to a Tibetan monastery and be trained by ninjas. Okay? I want to do that.
>I want to do that.
If, on the other hand, a movie would be dark, THEN a character would be raped in prison. Good thing BvS wasn't dark then.
>>83183199
>>83183266
>"he doesn't, like, get raped in prison. That could happen in my movie.
>that could happen in my movie
>my movie
>>83183291
Man, you have some serious autism
>About the violence: You have a scene in your movie where Dr. Manhattan incinerates a bad guy — and your camera dotes of the bloody, chunky aftermath. That’s pretty intense for a superhero movie.
>That’s Superman gone bad. If Superman grabbed your arm and pulled really hard, he’d pull your arm out of your socket. That’s the thing you don’t see in a Superman movie. But in Watchmen, what you get is, like, ”I’m a Superman, and I really want to help mankind — but I just tore this guy in half by accident. People call me a ‘superhero,’ but I don’t even know what that means. I just blew this guy to bits! That’s heroic?”
Oh god we should have known
>>83183174
Chris Evan's infectious laugh is a gift to this world
>>83183310
Hey, I'm just saying that he said it could happen in his movie. His words not mine.
>>83183349
"his movie" is Watchmen, the movie he was promoting when he did that interview.
The hate-fest circlejerk against Snyder defies all logic and reason, they have to search for nearly a decade old interviews and take his words out of context to attack him.
>>83183291
>>83183349
Yeah in a world where Batman is dark. Batman isn't dark though, he's cool.
>>83183330
>But in Watchmen, what you get is, like, ”I’m a Superman, and I really want to help mankind — but I just tore this guy in half by accident. People call me a ‘superhero,’ but I don’t even know what that means. I just blew this guy to bits! That’s heroic?”
He... Kinda gets it?
A little bit?
Maybe he just talks too "bro-y" to be able to articulate it
>>83183381
Again, I'm not saying that he wanted to add a Batman rape scene. I know that he was talking about Watchmen. I'm saying that he's willing to go far and dark with his characters. There was no way he was ever going to make a light hearted movie to complete with Marvel. It was always going to be dark.
>>83183330
>I really want to help mankind
No he fucking didn't. There's an entire chapter of the book with him on Mars detailing exactly why he doesn't want to help mankid.
It even has one of the most iconic images from the book in it of Doc Manhattan sat on the rock with the "Should not the judge of all Earth do right?" Quote underneath it.
Jesus fucking Christ man, how do you go about working on an adaptation of a book for literal months and miss the entire point of one if its central characters?
>>83182008
It's /tv/ not /co/
>>83183486
That's how he started out, though.
He did want to help but began to slip away.
>>83183451
He doesn't get it at all, he misses the point entirely. Doc Manhattan didn't want to help people, he'd become detached from them. This is his entire character arc.
The problem with capeshit is that the discussion of it is marred by perceived intrinsic knowledge of the characters, the worlds, and the capeshit business as a whole.
People such as OP project their criticisms of a company's corporate mindset emphatically over their film product as if the standards of good filmmaking have somehow changed in the advent of popular capeshit (or perhaps, eve the rules of a good capeshit film differ from a good film in general eh?)
Every idea this OP posits is so marred by perception of the 'competition' and ignores the elementary facets of filmmaking that have existed for over 100 years.
It creates a self-fulfilling cycle of constant re-fulfillment and fueling of more and more asinine debate.
>>83183486
It's clear you didn't read the book, since he actually does want to help mankind for most of it, hence why he works with Veidt for clean energy in the first place.
>>83182134
That last one feels fucked by idiot execs who think they understand everything. I wish suits would stop interfering. they aren't always wrong but usually the just make a film worse.
>>83183547
He wants to help people for most of the book, good job proving you don't understand character arcs, unlike Snyder.
>>83183547
Jon started out like that though.
That's why he allowed himself to do the whole Superhero thing.
Joined the new Minutemen.
Called himself Dr. Manhattan.
Allowed himself to be shaped into "something gaudy"
A big part of his character is that he is still Jon Osterman underneath it all.
>>83182401
The only reason that would work is if they made a better movie. Which they did.
>>83181471
As a DC fan it's pathetic to see people like you blame Marvel for Snyder and WB being retarded and making shitty films.
>>83183625
Hilarious how all the people who accuse Snyder of not understanding Watchmen don't seem to have even read the work themselves.
>>83181525
This is literally the best thing Zack Snyder ever did for DCU fans
>>83183451
It's funny, Snyder does understand characters most of the time, but the way he talks in interviews makes him look like a fool. It's like the stereotypical nerd who is awkward in social situations. Have you seen Snyder talk? He just looks so nervous.
Biggest problem with Snyder's work is that MCU fans are too dumb to understand it.
>>83183686
A lot of gym rats are that way.
If you get big, people just treat you like you're confident just based on how you look.
>>83183610
>>83183579
When he's on Mars he talks about how when he first split up with Jenny Slater that he felt himself becoming distant from humanity.
The only reason why he stuck around and did shit like the clean energy thing was out of habit, and because he didn't really know what to do.
The first thing we see of him in the book is him being distant with Silk Spectre in that he's working on science shit while banging her.
He's there on Earth because he's still trying to make sense of who and what he is and where he fits into the universe. He remains because he thinks that in doing so he might find some reason for being, some deeper meaning to life and its intricacies, not because he wants to help people
>>83183760
He literally says he's trying to help save mankind while he's working on what you call "science shit".
>>83183760
>When he's on Mars he talks about how when he first split up with Jenny Slater that he felt himself becoming distant from humanity.
No, he splits up with Jenny because she got old.
Jon is an unreliable narrator. He doesn't understand his own emotions.
If he split with Janey just because he was feeling distant from humanity, why did he go after Laurie?
If he was so distant from humanity, why did he have a break down in 1984 when he thought he was giving people cancer?
Dr. Manhattan was still an emotional being.
The distancing thing was a coping mechanism.
Hell, it was a very important part of his revelation on Mars. That every person is a miracle. Like oxygen turning into gold.Or a man being able to reconstruct him after having his intrinsic field removed. He's the same
>>83182037
Fucking this. Warner Bros is insane when it comes to their Superhero franchises. It always screams a cash grab, instead of doing what they think would be successful for both their comics and television and film media.
Like, Nolan did a great job with Begins, and the Dark Knight, while in my opinion not being the best Batman film, was a really good film on its own. Then he gets free reign to make that garbage like TDKR, and then Warner Bros has it in their mentality to basically say
>Hey, you know that guy who does pretty good cinematography, and can make a pretty good film when its a 1:1 adaption of a comic? Lets make him the helm behind one of our most inspiring franchises
And then when it was mediocre, and everyone complained they basically said
>Hey, let's make him the helm of DC cinematic universe
It just screams incompetence on a studio level. Disney and Marvel replaced Joss Whedon when he started to become an issue, and when the Russos brother showed they had a much better understanding, and now the Marvel Cinematic Universe is in much better standing.
If Disney or the guys behind Marvel were behind the franchise, instead of continuing mistakes and making new ones, they'd actually fix it. Unlike Warner Brothers.
>>83183950
the two DCEU movies are significantly more interesting and substantial than anything in the MCU, though.
>>83184044
Then there's this meme. Topping a pile of shit with Jesus imagery still makes it a pile of shit.
TDK was something a bit substantial. BvS and MoS was most definitely not.
>>83181618
>Cheap knockoff
Not with a $250 million budget anon. If they had sunk $250 million and a writer / director who loved the character into, say, a green lantern movie, we could all be hype for the rise of the yellow lantern corps film right now.
The problem isn't "cheap" it's "mishandled."
>>83183950
>Nolan did a great job with Begins, and the Dark Knight, while in my opinion not being the best Batman film, was a really good film on its own.
Begins was bad and Dark Knight was only slightly better. For example, in Batman Begins, Batman has reverse character development. He saves Ra's at the beginning, and kills him at the end. Plus the editing and scene transitions were pretty bad. The fights were bad too.
>>83184044
See
>>83182835
When people in the future come to write books about the evolution of pop culture there are going to be whole chapters titled "Marvel"
And that's not some fanboy exageration, I think a lot of the Marvel films are bad but their effect on pop culture is undeniable and therefore makes them far more interesting than MoS or BvS
>>83184139
Not just Jesus imagery, you obviously didn't understand the films. That's okay, stick to MCU it keeps things at the grade school level so you can understand it all.
>>83184246
The Marvel films are the same formula Disney has been doing for decades. Forced sentimentality, childish humor, lots of action, simple plots for children.
>>83184307
Right, because Disney have had no effect on pop culture at all, right?
>>83184354
They've had a huge effect on pop culture, albeit an incredibly negative one that consistently infantilizes their audience.
>>83184139
See I don't get this insistence on thinking BvS was shallow like isn't just saying its depth was implemented very poorly good enough? Why do you have to damage all your valid criticism by adding lies?
>>83183121
They sure as hell aren't following their own motto.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FKX1Jm-NNc
>>83184450
>Am I out of touch? No its the world that's wrong
>>83184800
Failed depth is still just shallowness
>>83184139
>>83184800
>>83185390
What is "depth" for you all?
>>83185539
It's entirely subjective, of course, but the way I see it, depth is like a watch.
It needs lots of little pieces that seem useless on their own but when put together form a whole greater than the sum of its parts.
>>83181525
don't know why the thread bothered continuing past this post
>>83185660
Okay, but what IS depth? Not what it is like. I just want a real definition.
>>83181471
DC's issue is that they got a fuckhead who doesn't believe in altruism and who only got into comics for blood & titties to direct two fucking Superman movies.
Accept no excuses.
>>83184267
>Y-You don't understand the g-g-greatness that is Based Snyder
Cry some more
You know what, fuck the haters. BvS was amazing and Snyder has the vision to make the DCEU a truly cinematic and meaningful experience unlike the MCU.
I hope Snyder continues to head and direct more movies for the DCEU.t. Marvelfan
>>83185714
I don't think I can give you a better answer than a metaphor because the term "depth" itself is a metaphor.
>>83181471
Where in the fuck did you get this moviebob-tier bullshkt from?
>>83181525
pleb
>>83181471
I like Zack though.
So the problem is that they're always going to be compared to movies that a large audience actually enjoys?
>>83181926
>Nolan told them there was no way they could have that ending
>Nolan also opposed the idea of having BvS so early
>Nolan hasn't made any comment about the DCEU after that
He tried to save us /co/
He tried his hardest
>>83187937
Nolan wasn't strong enough. But his successor Ben Affleck will absorb his strength to defeat Snyder. Just like Jojo Part 1.
>>83188393
Is Affleck influential enough to overrule Snyder's wife? Not entirely sure how else he managed do BvS without anyone kicking him in the nuts for obviously going for retard.
