Why do critics and normies hate it? I just saw it last night and I'd give it a solid 9/10, it was better than Civil War, which was about a 6/10
>Batman
>Alfred
>Beautiful cinematography
>Luthor's fantastic plan
>Wonder Woman
>Score
>Symbols and themes
>Warehouse fight
>Doomsday
This movie was perfect.
>>83141298
Cause it's not marvel, and it's different.
Because DC sucks even harder than Marvel. Look, it's diarrhea (Marvel) and dysentery (DC), both are shit, but one is not as stinky as the other.
People fear what they don't understand.
Batman v Superman is arguably the best comic book movie.
From it's score to it's meaningful symbolism, and it's deep story
>>83141298
>normies hate it?
I wore this Battfleck tee with the bat emblem at the airport, and had more people (mostly blacks) stop me and said, "that was a good movie, fuck haters."
>>83141298
>/co/ starts defending BvS now
Well i thought people would atleast wait for a few more months to make these threads to show their superior intellect over the normies
>>83141298
Are you retarded? Do you seriously rate movies as good based on how much shit they cram in it?
Did you also think that Transformers series was a masterpiece but in the Dark Knight there is too much talking and not enough explosions?
>>83141298
Why these bait threads for DC are allowed to exist, while those for marvel are deleted?
>>83141602
>Not noticing the /tv/ memes.
>>83141527
>Watchmen
How about no.
It was too smart for MCU fans.
Here's to hoping that director's cut improves it.
>>83142237
Exactly.
It had strong visuals (the thing Snyder is good at) but the characters (besides Batman) were confusing and had unclear motivations, the script is riddled with problems, and Superman is still a mopey christ figure
>>83141599
Black people love Superman and Batman. They can see through Marvel's pandering nonsense.
>>83141298
> Luther's fantastic plan
>wonder woman
>symbols and themes
>doomsday
Alright buddy, you got me
>>83141298
Normies liked it. Critics hated it because it wasn't Marvel which ofcourse leads to bad word of mouth and many people who would have enjoyed it never made it out to the theatres to watch it.
I like Civil War for the 20 minutes of Spiderman and Antman but the rest of the movie was pretty shit. Honorable mention goes to not fucking up Black Panther. But I don't plan on rewatching it because the first hour is full boring and the "villain" sucked.
BVS had some pretty crazy villians, Lex trying to burn Martha to death, Doomsday surviving a nuke. Batman's scenes are the best scenes in any cape movie without even trying. Musical score was excellent. Great themes.
I think the Disney Marvel formula is self deprecating and for children/mouth-breathers.
ITT: Fanboys in denial.
>>83141298
>Every time someone starts a "Why did x people hate BvS?" thread it has to start with a comparison to Civil War
>>83141298
Normal people liked it. Critics hated it. People expected it to have a bunch of jokes and after credits scenes but instead we got mature themes, god tier action, another amazing Zimmer score and villains that are actually effective and powerful. It wasn't a status quo movie and wasn't trying to be safe or for children/families at all. Gotta respect it for that.
>>83143389
The first hour made me actually like the mcu Tony Stark more than the awful iron man movies ever did. And then when it ended I just couldn't like him.
>>83143389
Snyder, don't you have rewrites ordered by based John's to do, if you actually think lex and doomsday were anything above piles of shit and chunks of abortion you're mentally damaged ;^)
>>83143389
>>83143473
>Normies liked it but critics hated it.
This is the latest dank meme I've heard in the past couple of days so where is this coming from? How do you even measure that kind of metric of "normies liked it" from? Did you ask a bunch of people? Normally, when normies like something a lot, it doesn't have "the largest drop between opening weekends in the entire history of comic book movies ever" attached to it.
I mean, isn't those Youtube reviews the most normie thing you can think of? How many of those are positive? Not a lot I've seen
I always like that when people say they like BvS, they HAVE to compare it to Marvel instead of just listing BvS's qualities
>>83143534
>How do you even measure that kind of metric of "normies liked it" from?
By whatever fits their agenda the best right now, duh.
>>83143473
>normal people liked it
BvS stood at 97% audience rating before the movie even came out in a majority of the world. It had a 9.9 imdb rating before even the critics saw it.
The fact that it even managed to drop below 70% says more about how much normies wanted to like it but ended up hating it than it does about the movie being even mediocre.
>>83141298
Assuming this thread isnt bait,
>critics hate it gor valid reasons
>normies hate it because critics tell them to hate it
I loved it thou2
>>83143822
>normies hate it because critics tell them to hate it
Or because it wasn't good
>>83143947
But it was good, though
>>83141298
>>Luthor's fantastic plan
You sure had me fooled, OP.
>>83143302
7/10 if you are joking
2/10 if you are serious.
Because you have to be blind to not notice everything wrong with the movie
>>83144007
It wasn't
>>83143535
Because this is just another attempt to retcon the BvS disappointment. Every week there is an faggot who opens the same topic.
There is not even the interest in talking about BvS. It's just a "BvS was better than Civil war and every other MCU". it's a bit boring.
>>83141298
M A R T H A
A
R
T
H
A
>>83141298
>Critics and Normie
>Normie
Actually it's the fans and critics hate it, the fans are the one that make the most money because they watch their favorit Capemovies many times in theatre. For Normie and casual it's just another cape movie, they don't even know about Marvel and DC.
It was horrendous piece of crap.
I enjoyed both Nolan Trilogy and Watchmen, but the whole concept of DCCE is just retarded.
The whole idea of "edgy=meaningful and deep" is what drove genre into the depths of cinematic hell in the early 00s in the first place, until Iron Man and Batman Begins kicked its ass up to the quality (Spider-Man also helped, I guess).
And now WornerBros are acting like the last 20 years of capeshit didn't happen.
Both Man of Steel and BvS are no different from any other cheap and stupid Hollywood "interpretation" of any children media in the last couple of decades. It can't even have any message besides "hey, we adult, please notice us, we have like superman that kills and batman that kills, so realistic, plz give us Avengers-level box office, aren't all people like dark and serious stuff?"
Hey, geniuses, how about instead of butchering light-hearted characters, like Superman, you give us a Question movie? A Huntress movie? A Spectre movie? Or any superhero, who IS NOT THE FUCKING SYMBOL OF HOPE?
And they can't even do their world-building shit right.
If you think, that killing Superman in his SECOND movie is anything near good... you probably just the reason that whole damn mess exists in the first place. Oh, and you also suck, sorry.
Even MCU-level right now seems like an unreachable hight for this expanded piece of crap.
>perfect
>messed up editing in the first hour
>incoherent storyline
>Superman still barely had character development
>some stupid dialogues (martha?? are you a terrorist, general?)
>batman and superman's fight was underwhelming
>some emotional bait in the end
>Lex's motivation was weak
other than that I have no problem with this movie
it's funny that fans really desperate to shill this movie when they compare it to other product to prove it.
>>83142221
Directors Cut counts.
>>83143370
s-sauce
This movie
https://youtu.be/pqv_LUStxDw
>>83146010
tldr
>>83146227
>bvs defenders champion the movie as being meaningful, mature and deep
>can't even read a post on the internet more than 1 paragraph long
>>83146010
>Superman that kill
>Batman that kill
Uh, there's nothing wrong with it, I mean every fucking superheroes kill especially in the movie but I agree that BvS was fucking edgy.
>>83141298
I saw it yesterday and if it weren't for the fact that I was with friends and we were having a good time making fun of it, I would have fallen asleep or walked out. The movie is a bunch of over-the-top, goofy schlock, which is something I do love but only in works that are self-aware. BvS is schlock but it's trying to be realistic and deep. Every single moment that tried to be dramatic had me in stitches. Add to that a fair amount of bad acting, confusing editing, atrocious and tacky dialogue, and numerous pointless plot elements, and you have a movie that only barely manages to be a 2/10 because Ben Affleck is a good Batman. Like, holy shit, that final fight sequence with Doomsday was such a poorly directed visual clusterfuck, I just tuned out completely. It was an unintentional comedy, only entertaining for the wrong reasons.
>>83146069
>not recognizing Sparrow's crazy art on sight
Flee. Flee before it is too late.
>>83146128
>The best DC movie we're getting any time soon is a fucking Lego Batman movie voiced by Will Arnett
It's like WB is run by crazy people.
>>83146039
It's still crap though.
>>83141298
>normies
>hating BvS
From my experience, its been the normies who loved it completely without a hint of irony.
>>83141298
Who cares why?
If you're so desperate for external validation that you genuinely need to have other people like what you like then go see a therapist about how emotionally dependent you are on other people.
Like what you want to like, who gives a flying fuck what anyone else thinks.
>>83146584
>every fucking superheroes kill
They really shouldn't, but that's not the point.
Even if WB decided it's a good idea to push character, which kill, the realisation is (again) simply the worst.
Not a single character in DCCE so far cares about value of human life (and I doubt anyone will ever).
If Superman needs to kill someone, he just does it.
If Batman needs to kill someone, he just does.
That makes the whole concept of a "rouge gallery" (or idea that any villain (not even saying the whole freaking team like Suicide Squad) is still around and will continue to be) is laughably stupid in this world (another part of comics legacy, which fans of DCEU don't care about, I guess).
In that case, I honestly don't get what makes these characters better than their villains, since their methods of accomplishing what they want aren't different at all.
>>83141298
I've never seen so many of these threads about any other movie in the history of critically panned movies
>>83147611
Nvmd thought I was on /tv/
>>83143189
Not OP, but when I saw it, I understand character motivations. Problem I had the most was that the plot seemed to move too fast. If the movie were longer, then they could have taken their time.
I guess I'll have to wait until Justice League to see how things develop. Hopefully things can be fleshed out, or they can keep things on the same pace as the JL animated series, where we know enough about the characters and their motivations to keep it enjoyable.
>>83146031
>fight was underwhelming
>expecting batman to go toe to toe with supes when he could blow bats up at a distance easily
>not understanding the Martha meme stems from Batman's motivation
>not understanding Lex's motivation was to prove that someone as powerful as Supes could flip on a dime at any moment
That's all Lex tried to do. Make Superman look like a bad guy, and prove to the world that there can't be heroes like him. Eventually he went off the deep end and whatnot.
>>83141298
>it was too smart
>it was too deep
>black people loved it
>muh zionist disney chills
>it was too dark for the manchildren!
>it took itself seriousltly
>it was art
/tv/ shitposters and deluded teenagers will give you a variety of reasons.
>>83148080
>>black people loved it
Really? That's a new one.
>>83141298
>>Luthor's fantastic plan
>>Wonder Woman
>>Score
>>Symbols and themes
Anon you might have a case of "DC fanboyism"
>>83141298
>Batman
Affleck gave a solid performance but his immediate presence in a Mos sequel was shoehorned in because WB thinks everyone wants to see muh Batman and none of the other characters.
>Alfred
One of the only good things about the movie.
>Beautiful cinematography
The editing was awful and you have to have the shittiest taste imaginable to defend it. Aside from that the entire movie was grimderp to shit, you couldn't even tell between Metropolis and Gotham because both cities were equally dark and bland.
>Luthor's fantastic plan
Clambering through hoops just to see Batman and Superman fight sounds more like a plan of some autistic DC fanboy than Lex Luthor. Then again given how autistic Lex was for the entire movie that's entirely fitting.
>Wonder Woman
DUDE JUSTICE LEAGUE LMAO the character
>Score
Batman and Robin had a good score too.
>Symbols and themes
That were there simply for the sake of having symbols and themes instead of having a message or tying into the plot, you know like symbols and themes should.
>Warehouse fight
Was that the hyped-to-death "greatest gladiator match" scene that was over in 5 minutes and 2-3 kryptonite explosions of generic fighting?
>Doomsday
Shoehorned in, and made Lex's already retarded plan look doubly retarded.
Why do people still defend this garbage is beyond me.
>>83147716
>Problem I had the most was that the plot seemed to move too fast.
this
>>83141298
>>Batman
Was actually quite dumb outside of fighting, so much so that Lois Lane was shown being a better detective than him, which is sad because his comic company is literally named after his comic brand "Detective Comics"
>>Alfred
Pretty much 10/10, but that's easy to do with a character who just needs to remind the MC aboit things
>>Beautiful cinematography
Literally the only thing Synder is good at
>>Luthor's fantastic plan
No, no it wasn't, it was actually very flawed and was able to be pulled off by everyone taking their stupid pills, Batman most of all
>>Wonder Woman
The grin she had after getting slapped was cool, but beyond that I didn't much care for her, or her snap chatting with Bruce
>>Score
Yeah, music is always good, even more so when what you are watching is made ro be visibly depressing
>>Symbols and themes
Oh yes, more Super Jesus shoved down our throats in a nit subtle way at all, bravo Synder, seriously, that's never been done in cinema before, breaking new grounds there buddy...
>>Warehouse fight
The fighting in this movie from this one scene is the only redeeming quality of this film, kind of like how QS had the best scene in DofP, it doesn't really make up for the rest of the film though
>>Doomsday
Kind of a waste, it would have been much better had we not seen him in the trailer
The movie was fun OP, sure, but it didn't live up to the hype it had and just made me, and most other people, look at the dc movie verse questionably. I get it a generous 5/10, should have just been a cape flick, instead it tried to be a new goldstandard for cape flicks and failed.
>>83141298
>Symbols and themes
>People are impressed by baby's first symbolism
>Luthor's fantastic plan
>Doomsday
>Wonder Woman
LMAO
M
A
O
>>83148275
This isn't a MoS sequel, this is a movie to set up the JL so of course it had both Batman and WW
>>83141298
Nah, I liked it, but a 9 is too high.
I'd give it a 7.5/10.
Civil War got a solid 8/10.
>>83146010
>Both Man of Steel and BvS are no different from any other cheap and stupid Hollywood "interpretation" of any children media in the last couple of decades. It can't even have any message besides "hey, we adult, please notice us, we have like superman that kills and batman that kills, so realistic, plz give us Avengers-level box office, aren't all people like dark and serious stuff?"
Unbelievably idiotic post.
>>83149846
Yeah I'm sure your kino posts and cinemagraphs are evidence enough that "Shit we screwed up! Throw Batman in it!" didn't happen.
And Suckerpunch was wholly underrated too.
>>83149817
>This isn't a MoS sequel, this is a movie to set up the JL
thats precisely why it was so shitty.
>>83150152
>Evansposting a bannable offense
What
>>83147060
nah
>>83144730
no, you have to be blind to think anything is wrong with it. Like you either have to be completely comic illiterate or have not been paying attention to what anyone said to think there are serious problems with this movie.
>>83149817
This also partially ruined Iron man 2.
>>83143189
dude the character motivations are so goddamn clear. Luthor doesn't believe something can be all good AND all powerful, so he is trying to prove Superman can't be either. Superman is dealing with the fact that everything he does becomes some kind of inherent political action, and tries to live up to this savior/messiah image the world (and audience) has projected onto him.
>>83143516
>I didn't understand the movie
>>83147519
what the fuck do you mean, Superman fucking struggled to bring himself to kill Zod, and only did it when he just refused to not kill that family. The only other person he ever kills is Doomsday, which is just Zod again, and even sacrifices himself so no one else can get hurt.
Batman has killed in every medium he has ever appeared in, and at least this time it was very well motivated and was part of a character arc.
What drives me insane is that Civil War is basically the exact same movie, minus the depth and any real emotion, yet the mouth breathers in the media and online gobble that shit up.
>>83141298
snyder please leave
I agree with you OP, great movie. Im going to post some images that delve into the imagery in the movie.
Note: Only idiots use the word kino seriously, its a meme like "desu" at this point.
>>83141298
>>Beautiful cinematography
There are no fucking establishing shots.
>>83151092
Because symbolism = quality amirite?
>>83151101
well this is just a lie and you know it. Off the top of my head, they established Metropolis when they do the flash back, the funeral procession in the dream, the island where they find the kryptonite, the middle of metropolis with the superman statue, and congress. But nice meme kid
>>83151166
well it sure is engaging, and helps to re-enforce the story. I don't get why people are so against symbolism inherently. Like the movie works perfectly well without reading into any of the symbolism, but when you do, it adds a lot to it. And its not JUST symbolism, he does cool things like mirroring shots during the two funeral scenes as a way to represent the beginning and end of Batman's arc.
>>83151013
Good news, you are already insane. So nothing lost, nothing gained.
Which is kinda how I feel about BvS.
>>83150853
>dude the character motivations are so goddamn clear
yeah...the problem is that they are weak motivations.
it's quite easy put the whole motivation of Lex in some mental disorder due to his father's abuse or arbitrary frenzy. It 's like saying, Lex is crazy and that all. One thing that can go well with the Joker, but with Lex seems a bit trivial.
>>83151216
>>83151179
>>83151130
>>83151112
>>83151092
>>83151179
I mean, are you autistic?
Ofcourse I was being hyperbolic, but if you want me to be completely literal then THERE WEREN'T ENOUGH.
>its the zack snyder apologist channel
>>83151013
>minus the depth and any real emotion,
If your conflict can be solved in four words your transitive was never that deep, and for a story to have emotional resonance it needs range, not just dour sadness for its entirety. That just generates apathy.
But you can post kino memes about it and scream courtier's reply fallacies, so that's worth something here.
>>83141298
Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding DingThat's the sound of me ruining your movie.
>>83151013
You have more serious mental problems, I'm afraid.
>>83151242
You need a literal minded autism to argue in favor of this movie. That's the only mindset that goes "Someone smiled more than once?! THAT MUST MEAN IT'S A COMEDY! QUIIIIIIIIPS!!1"
>>83151222
Nah they are good motivations. Like really good, Superman has always had the weight of the world on his shoulders and has troubles being viewed as a messiah figure. Like that stuff is all over Birthright, Secret Identiy, Superman E1, even in Byrne's run.
Batman's paranoia driving him to extreme lengths is like the entire point of Tower of Babel.
And it wasnt that Lex was just crazy, infact he wasnt, he was just essentric. Luthor's motivation has ALWAYS been that he just doesnt believe Superman can truly be as good as he claims to be, he always sees him as the alien invader (see Luthor: Man of Steel, and again Byrne's run of superman)
>>83151242
well what place would you like to have had an establishing shot in which there werent? I'm pretty sure almost any scene with any combination Batman, Superman, Lex, or WW had an establishing shot.
>>83151236
aw yes, symbolism is autism. Like every Lynch movie is just autism, and anytime anyone discusses any symbolism in a Hitchcock movie? Autism.
>>83151092
>>83151112
>>83151130
>>83151179
>>83151179
>>83151216
>>83151233
>>83151421
>>83151441
>>83151470
>fuck, i cant argue against it, so ill post laughing evans. Im so smart.
>>83141298
>BS.jpg
>BullShit.jpg
>>83151394
1) When Batman gets ready for his fight with superman. We could to close up of him in the suit, in the city. No establishing shot of the city, no establishing shot of him in the suit. Clearly cut content.
2) The entire car chase scene
3) When Bruce visits the museum
4) Several times as Lex sets up his Doomsday plan
and many more
>>83151347
Wasted actor. The whole paranoia and fear of Superman was more suitable for him than to Batman. You could get the same result by making Lex the one that has lost employees and bulding in the titans clash and Batman a veteran vigilante who, initially, did not give a damn about Superman.
When Supes bangs his car and tells him that "the bat is dead", then Bats take it seriously simply because of his no bullshit attitude.
E voilà, Lex has a serious motivation and Batman would still be Batman.
>>83151538
okay, that is fair enough, I mean the museum scene has a bit of an establishing shot that pans to the side and we see Bruce and Diana. To be perfectly fair, the released cut "Communion" scene does give an establishing shot of the kryptonian ship.
>>83141298
>Why do critics and normies hate it?
This film, like MoS before it, defied the preconceived notions people have about the genre and these characters. It induces a kind of culture shock that most people aren't willing to adapt to. After years of Marvel films, the general public looks to that template as the one way to make a super hero movie, and so any deviation seems strange and confusing. Many already felt slighted by Man of Steel's new depiction of Superman and his mythos, as it was about as far on the other end of the spectrum as you can get from Donner's films, which is what everyone (uninitiated) thinks of when they think Superman. Couple this with a new Batman a mere four years after Nolan's trilogy which was generally beloved, I think many people were ready to distrust and hate this movie out of the gate.
To both its credit and its detriment (depending on who you are), BvS comes with a lot of baggage: both from MoS and DC lore in general. I have to imagine that laymen were completely confused during the Knightmare scene, followed immediately by the Flash visitation. Your general moviegoer has no clue what a parademon is, why Batman would use guns and wear a duster, why Superman would become a despot, or who the fuck that guy that warned Bruce was. I have to imagine that this was the point where critics and laymen got lost and frustrated, writing the movie off and spreading the word.
These things served to magnify the film's ACTUAL problems: pacing and character development. So the criticism was ruthless and unforgiving.
>>83151394
>And it wasnt that Lex was just crazy, infact he wasnt, he was just essentric.
If BvS Lex isn't crazy he's retarded.
>>83151545
Eisenberg's performance isn't just bad, it's actually embarrassing.
I literally sat there cringing at every bit of ill-directed overacting he did.
The tragic thing is that it's clear that he thought that he'd be incredibly entertaining on screen, he'd be a younger Christoph Waltz.
But right around the time he tries to shove a Jolly Rancher in an old man's mouth it all fell apart.
>>83151347
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-MUzvASr8s
Listen to the bells in the music.
Lex's ding sounds a bit like ping, doesn't it?
It's all allusion. Don't get mad because you didn't get it.
>>83151787
why
>>83151667
Ble bla blabla.... It's much simpler. Any interpretation of a character is valid, but When you give a new interpretation, you must be a good storyteller to sell your story to the audience.
Snyder's ideas are not bad per se, but his movie is atrocious.
>>83141298
>Beautiful cinematography
>Luthor's fantastic plan
>Symbols and themes
>Warehouse fight
>Doomsday
>baiting this hard
>>83151821
Just because it's an idea, doesn't mean it's a good idea.
>>83151667
this mostly, though I wish people would give the Knightmare scene more credit. Even if they dont understand that is a possible future, it still works as a nightmare batman has that represents his fears of Superman.
>>83151826
>KILL THE BAT OR I KILL MARTHA
>OH AND I'M GONNA KEEP WORKING ON THIS ALIEN MONSTER THING THAT'S PRETTY MUCH UNSTOPPABLE
>OH SHIT THE BAT GUY KILLED SUPERMAN
>EARTH'S FUCKED I GUESS
>>83151872
nah
>>83151872
>his movie is atrocious
What makes you say that?
>>83151789
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/03/25/batman-v-superman-jimmy-olsen
>Eisenberg has no idea how he fits into the pantheon of other Lex Luthors. “I’m so unfamiliar with anything surrounding it because I didn’t grow up reading the comics or watching these movies,” he said. “I read a little bit out of interest, but it was meaningless.”
>This was the exact kind of cold indifference Snyder says he wanted. “He can’t fake it,” he says.
>>83151667
>After years of Marvel films, the general public looks to that template as the one way to make a super hero movie, and so any deviation seems strange and confusing.
Then explain DoFP and Deadpool making great money and rave reviews
>>83151787
Why not both?
>This Lex is a spoiled brat, a millennial intern who happens to be the billionaire boss, an adult who still tantrums like a child, and a boy so horrifically abused by his father that the only way to release his torment is to unleash it on the world. He despises both Batman and Superman.
>No heroes ever came to his rescue. He is determined to turn them against each other. If the world ends, so be it. Lex wants for nothing. Literally – nothing sounds pretty good to him, and that suicidal impulse manifests itself as a desire to see the whole world annihilated, too.
>>83146010
>The whole idea of "edgy=meaningful and deep"
There was nothing even remotely edgy about ether film.
>>83152010
Because there wasn't any rape.
http://www.ew.com/article/2008/07/17/watchmen-chat-director-zack-snyder/2
>Everyone says that about [Christopher Nolan’s] Batman Begins. ”Batman’s dark.” I’m like, okay, ”No, Batman’s cool.” He gets to go to a Tibetan monastery and be trained by ninjas. Okay? I want to do that. But he doesn’t, like, get raped in prison. That could happen in my movie. If you want to talk about dark, that’s how that would go.
People seem to think it's 2deep4you when it's very much the opposite and that's the problem
>>83151911
there was nothing wrong with capturing Martha to make Superman do something. I mean it worked, Lex obviously didnt think Superman would actually attack Batman (since he believes Superman has chosen all good, while Lex has chosen all powerful). He knew he had pushed Batman to be paranoid enough and angry enough to attack Superman, he just needed to get them close together.
He didn't think Doomsday would be unstoppable, and he also didnt care. He had chosen all powerful instead of all good. He believed that he could control Doomsday since it came from his blood (like how his dad claimed control of him because Lex came from his blood, he literally says this in his speech).
Also for the record, having a world view informed by childhood trauma has almost always been part of Luthor's back story (even when it was just going bald thanks to Superboy), and does not mean he is crazy. But of course you just like to simplify things.
>>83151942
Not the guy but the pace of the movie as a whole, the rhythm of the individual scenes, some of the acting (some wooden, some too hammy), the tonal monotony, the lack of mounting suspense etc.
It's just not a well put together film, even if you find it great on a conceptual and a visual level.
>>83141433
This is the normie excuse
>>83147519
>Not a single character in DCCE so far cares about value of human life
>Clark saved 7-8 billion people TWICE in mos and took a nuke a point blank range after taking Doomsday out into space in BVS...
>Doesn't care about human life...
You are fucking retarded...
>>83152055
He's not wrong. People say Batman is dark, but he's really not.
>>83151985
>>No heroes ever came to his rescue. He is determined to turn them against each other
We're there even any active heroes when Lex was a kid?
>>83151789
the jolly rancher bit was great, he is establishing his dominance over the new senator. fucking dumbass
>>83152093
nice explanation there man. Really proved us wrong.
>>83150897
>if someone didn't like a movie I enjoyed, it's because they don't get it, and not because there could possibly be some flaws in it
>>83152055
Zach wasn't even remotely god damn implying that he wants to add rape or would add rape, he used it as a example mearly to give a base idea of how dark he might go.
>>83152150
You're trying too hard
>>83152175
im not saying there arent flaws, but you arent stating flaws, you are stating things you dont like. Those aren't flaws. You not liking them, doesnt mean they are flaws. You could try and explain how they are flaws, but you arent. You are just saying they are objectively bad, which in my opinion means you didnt understand it.
>>83152106
>He didn't think Doomsday would be unstoppable
Bull shit, if he believed it could kill Superman then he believed it was some kind of unstoppable.
There is no getting around this, he's crazy or fucking stupid.
>>83152142
I suppose Wonder Woman existed, but wasn't active. Green Lanterns perhaps weren't doing shit on Earth yet?
>>83151911
>The cameras are pointed at your ship to point out the holes in the holy!
Doomsday was Lex's contingency to show the world that Superman, an alien from Krypton, has done nothing but wrought destruction, and brought unspeakable horrors to Earth.
>>83152212
how?
>>83152236
not unstoppable like in power, he didnt think Doomsday would be unstoppable in the sense that Luthor thought he could control him ultimately. And it sort of worked, he told him to attack the superman fucker and he did. I mean it mirrors the comics almost 1:1. Luthor in place of the kryptonian scientist that made an unstoppable supercreature out of hubris.
>>83151942
-How many times he use the dream as a narrative ploy?
-Flash comes and warns Bruce is a citation from the Crisis, but in his story is totally decontextualized. There is a reason if so many people were confused because the entire "message from the future" seems to be out of context in a movie who has not even introduced the concept of "other worlds" or "other times".
-Superman kills an African terrorist, but then goes on to complain with Batman? The audience feels a contradiction and is a great way to make Superman obnoxious.
The film sacrifices a lot of time to introduce the Jla and cut out a lot of valuable content such as Motherboxs that would explain some of Lex behavior. Instead we have an useless dream with the Clark Pa.
>>83152316
>And it sort of worked, he told him to attack the superman fucker
He never told Doomsday shit
>this thread
>>83152316
>he told him to attack the superman fucker and he did
The first thing Doomsday did was try to kill Lex, Superman just got in the way.
>>83152349
So how will Clark come back to life without everyone realizing he's Supes?
>it's a "let's argue over who's mediocre movies are better" episode
>>83152372
showing again the battle of all good v all powerl. Luthor thinks he is all powerful, but he isnt, Superman, in trying to be all good, ends up all powerful.
>>83152416
What does that have to do with Lex being crazy or stupid?
>>83152106
Kidnapping Martha as retarded, because if superman could hear Lois creaming from north pole or something, he could easily hear Marthas moaning from couple blocks away. But he didn't because plot doesn't need to have sense here.
Sending sad emails to Bruce and Clark was probably the dumbest way of keeping them on the edge (especially that Bruce didn't fucking read them till the very end.) I mean, they took it completely face value without any hint of second guessing. A reporter and fucking Batman.
But still, so he wanted Batman to kill superman or not? Why then create Doomsday in the first place?
Also, he either assumed it will be strong enough to kill superman (so basically unstopable) or he just fucked with some alien tech and didn't realize it will be so strong (then again, why did he call it Superman's doomsday then.)
And you dad/blood theory could perhaps work, if he had more than one line about his entire fucking motivation then.
>>83151667
>These things served to magnify the film's ACTUAL problems: pacing and character development. So the criticism was ruthless and unforgiving.
I was all set to dismiss your opinion as another "MCU has brainwashed everyone" shitposter but I gotta respect your for this at least.
There aren't any concepts in this movie that are particularly offensive to me, and I probably am a bit of a Supermanfag. It;s just that they didn't sell any of it effectively. It just went for ideas without earning them.
>>83152132
>Superman quits helping people because there are some people who do not worship him yet.
Also "saving" humanity in MoS is a bit of a stretch, he was responsible for bringing Zod to Earth, and argument that he never attempted to bring fight away from people is old, but still relevant. At least fucking one line about this or something.
>>83141298
>Snyder will never be able give Superman any depth
>mfw edgelord Garth Ennis can make Superman heartfelt and lovable
If Ennis can do that, then I don't understand how Snyder was never able to.
>>83152511
And that's exactly the reason why the public has rejected it.
>>83152403
BvS is just not good. Mediocre would be an improvement
>>83152616
I disagree.
>>83152616
mediocre would have easily gotten it to 1B, good I'm thinking would be 1.2, great 1.5. Somehow it was so bad that the names Batman and Superman couldn't just sell out tickets and shit, even with a hungry skeleton for some people's eye candy.
>>83151112
What a fucking deep analysis and interpretation. So deep that it fucking repeats exctly whay Luthor says at that one moment.
>Devils come from above
It's flashy slogan that is kinda, let's say relevant in the movie, but there are no themes worth discussing here.
Great cinematography.
Good action.
Bad performance.
Terrible script.
4/10. I'm glad I saw it, but won't see this movie ever again.
What's up with this "normies loved it"?
That's completely false it had a insanely high drop off of ticket sales from week 1 to week 2. No one wanted to see it again and bad word of mouth spread.
Seriously if this had a nornal opening and not a staggered one like most movies it would have done even worse. This movie made that much on hype alone
>>83152845
Meant to say
>and didn't open everywhere at once
>>83152769
>Great cinematography.
I'd honestly contest that.
I mean, sure this scene looks cool, like in a trailer, but you see it in the movie and it's like "why the fuck is he just floating there? Why isn't he just zooming down and helping everyone? Are you going to move? I'm still thinking these things and he's still fucking floating there"
Stuff like this is all over the movie
>>83152845
>What's up with this "normies loved it"?
It's the newest dank meme to pretend that there was some kind of majority that liked this. They're desperate to the point they're trying to equate BvS with something like Bayformers
>>83151441
Dude, you went for cherrypicking overdrive here.
>>83152564
>Also "saving" humanity in MoS is a bit of a stretch, he was responsible for bringing Zod to Earth
Completely fucking irrelevant.
Zod is a sentient being that made his own choices, Clark did nothing but give Zod the address everything else is on Zod.
It would be like saying it's my fault if a serial killer followed me home when I buy a new car and kills my neighbors.
NO MATTER WHAT... he turned off the world engine and killed Zod that means the countless people both would have killed had they no been stopped when they did is a direct result of Clark's actions.
>and argument that he never attempted to bring fight away from people is old, but still relevant
You can not stop by help people in the middle of a one on one fight or you leave your opponent the ability to start attacking others.
And Clark did try to take it out of the city, when be let loose with the full power punches high above the city he took Zod to the edge of down town before Zod swerved back in.
And in Smallville he tried to drag Faora out of town but Non tackled him.
>>83152106
>there was nothing wrong with capturing Martha to make Superman do something.
It's kind of shortsighted. Like, Superman is dead. Batman is off on a hero's quest to gather the League. Lex is a billionaire with a shitload of connections. Why isn't he just hiring Deadshot or Deathstroke or any of the other hundreds of assassins in the DCU to kill Martha Kent out of spite?
>>83152891
I thought he was hovering over people just mocking them when they trailer came out.
Is it better or worse that it seems more like he simply doesn't like saving people?
>>83152335
>the dream as a narrative ploy
In his depiction of these characters as mythical, Snyder is following mythic tradition of characters gaining insights through dreams: visions of the future, analogies of the Self, etc. You don't have to like it, and I may even agree that the film had too many dream sequences, but they do serve a purpose both thematically and narratively.
>useless dream with the Clark Pa
It wasn't useless. It served to reveal to a troubled Clark that being a person who tries to do good comes with consequences you have to own and learn from. It's a moment of clarity for a Superman in crisis.
>not even introduced the concept of "other worlds"
We had a lengthy depiction of Krypton in MoS, and were told by Jor El that the Kryptonians had explored and colonized countless worlds, Earth included (see Scout Ship).
>Superman kills an African terrorist
That's not a certainty. It is understood by now that Superman doesn't kill. As dumbfuck stupid as it is, Goyer said that killing Zod is the birth of Superman's No Killing Code. Clark even says, "I didn't kill those people".
I'm really broken up about the exclusion of the Communion scene, as those 44 seconds did A LOT to contextualize Lex's words and actions.
>>83153038
>I'm really broken up about the exclusion of the Communion scene, as those 44 seconds did A LOT to contextualize Lex's words and actions.
That entire scene literally only makes sense if you have read comics and know some lore about Superman.
I mean "I" know what's happening, but if I thought of it in the context of solely this being the second movie in the verse, none of that shit made any sense
>>83152908
If there were indeed those scenes, than it's just a mark of terrible filmmaking if like 80% of audience didn't notice/connect with these scenes while actively waiting for them.
>>83142237
Not really? If you consider BvS "smart" you need to start watching more movies.
>>83152891
>Why isn't he just zooming down and helping everyone?
I would argue that's script problem. That shot that you are posting was shown during the monologue of someone if I recall correctly. During that whole scene what Goyer is trying to say "hey, Superman was indeed trying to save people, see?". And you can get that, that they are addressing the criticism of Superman not saving people in MoS. It's retarded and even a 2 yo could make a better way to portray Superman doing that and helping the plot. Basically I understand what you are saying, still I think it's the script fault. And I agree, making something looks beautiful doesn't excuse the pointlessness of showing it, just because.
At this point I hope they just go full Injustice with Superman because he's a miserable cunt in BvS
>>83153082
This.
It is terrible filmmaking if your audience need years of comic book history to understand basic motivations of your main cast, and events of the story.
>>83141545
>K I N O
the fuck is that?
a new meme?
>>83153287
It's /tv/'s latest stale maymay.
>>83153140
The irony of people who didn't understand the film arguing it isn't smart is too much.
>>83152891
He is floating there probably trying to plan out how to transport everyone.
Even he can't carry too many people with out risking breaking bones and such.
>>83153408
It's about as smart as The Matrix trilogy.
Maybe less so. Because at least the Matrix trilogy was more subtle with its symbolism.
>>83152908
>You can not stop by help people in the middle of a one on one fight or you leave your opponent the ability to start attacking others.
Zod knocks Superman away.
Zod follows Superman.
Zod does not knock Superman away and go after the nearest civilian.
You guys keep trying to have it both ways. Zod is a rabid dog! He's attacking anything! By being focused on Clark! And not attacking anything but him!
>>83152908
Your argument would make a lot more sense if it was shown at any point Zod had anybody other than Supes in his sights during the whole fight up until the neck scene
>>83153485
People also actually enjoyed seeing The Matrix.
>>83146905
this
>>83153599
You just don't get it! Clark was keeping Zod's focus on him! By being punched across the city and not in sight! We don't need to be SHOWN that Zod is going to attack anyone but Clark because he TELLS us he will! Do you need spoonfeeding! Just take dialogue on faith!
>>83153841
Kek
>>83153841
No, you are delusional and your "do you need spoonfeeding?" is not a valid argument when the excuse you are making is only in your head trying to defend the movie.
>>83151890
You're right. The Justice League should fight Copperhead in their debut. Fuck Kirby's Fourth World.
>>83153969
I think that anon was being sarcastic
>>83151872
>Ble bla blabla
nice
>>83153238
>>83153082
>That entire scene literally only makes sense if you have read comics and know some lore about Superman.
I don't think that's necessarily true. The whole movie, Lex says that demons come from the sky above. At the very end in his cell, he says they've heard theping ping ping"out in the dark, amongst the stars." If we had the Communion scene in the movie, it wouldn't be a stretch to venture that the giant fucking space demon is what Lex has been talking about, and that it means something big for the continuation of this universe.
You don't NEED to know that it's Steppenwolf, or that he's holding Mother Boxes. The audience doesn't NEED to know that Lex's painting is an allusion to the Justice League fighting the forces of Apokalips. The general audience could understand that it all forebodes a big fight to come.
I liked it with some reservation
My main issue was the film felt haphazardly edited and paced, and Clark lacked characterization
Im looking forward to the Directors Cut to see if it can remedy these issues.
I'm a MoS fag anyways.
>>83154382
Nigga general audiences complained about all the dream sequences, you really think 44 seconds of Darkseid foreshadowing is going to help anything?
>>83150961
>Batman kills in every medium
>TAS
>Adam West show
>Character arc and motivation in that shitpile of a movie
>>83154581
It adds context, is all I'm saying. It would have tied some themes together.
>>83141527
>instead of bringing us into the superhero world, they bring the world to us. You'll believe a man can fly
I understand this pic is bait, but it literally does the opposite (except TDK I guess). Has this person even seen Batman Returns?
6/8, pretty solid.
>>83147060
Nah. This movie was terrific. Only reason I submit myself to the torture of ofther Snyder films.
>>83154659
It gives some reason why Lex went into complete babbling lunatic, while before he was just devoid of personality and motivation. It kinda explains one problem, really small one in relation to the whole movie.
>>83153969
Dude really? The fact that I capitalized that the movie tells rather than shows wasn't telegraphed enough?
Shit if you miss the sarcasm in my post then maybe BvS *is* too subtle for some people.
>>83154811
>devoid of personality and motivation
But we saw that Lex is a manipulative narcissist. He's on top of the world, can swindle the fucking US government, yet here's one thing it seems he can't touch. Here's someone he's not above, that he can't hope to equate himself to. Worse still, much of the world thinks of him as a god and a savior. But in his experience, Lex knows that there is no god or savior--and that on the off chance that there is, that this person cannot be all good and all powerful. It cannot be possible. It does not compute to Lex, after his father's abuse and his unanswered prayers.
Superman is a paradox, and Lex thinks he should not exist. He finally validates himself by taming the god, saying, "Now god bows to me."
>>83141527
>1.jpg
Hahahahaha.
>Better than CW
Enjoy the meme Luthor OP.
>>83155062
>But in his experience, Lex knows that there is no god or savior--and that on the off chance that there is, that this person cannot be all good and all powerful. It cannot be possible.
But he's right. Clark isn't all powerful. He isn't even necessarily all good.
>>83141298
People went into it expecting a film that was very Marvelesque and were caught off guard because it was different.they didn't expect to have to think and went in expecting a comedy
>>83142237
This
I find it hilarious that you need to write an essay to explain why BvS was good. It's still a fucking misfire of a film. And I say that as someone who wanted to like this film. There are good parts here and there, but it doesn't make up for the collective
>>83155268
I didn't have to think when I was watching BvS either, the first hour bored me shitless and the hour and a half afterwards was mindless nonsense.
>>83155254
Lex needs the world to know that.
"To see the blood on your hands".
"The cameras are at your ship to point out the holes in the holy!"
Doomsday was meant to prove to the world that Superman, the Kryptonian alien, is a monster who's brung more monstrosities with him. He's not good, he's evil.
>>83155268
>all this implying
>>83155268
>People went into it expecting a film that was very Marvelesque
You know this excuse would work if this was the first movie and not a sequel to MoS
This is literally what happened with the Matrix sequels and Star Wars prequels all over again
>>83155551
10/10 bait
I cannot fucking believe that there are people that honestly compare BvS to the Star Wars prequels. I cannot believe that people are willing to go that far to shit on this movie.
It has problems.
It's not that bad.
>>83155628
>It's not that bad.
You're right.
It's worse than that.
>>83155628
Sorry anon, but not a single thing in this movie works past 30 minutes mark.
>>83155551
Waaait...Are you fucking implying that MoS was anywhere near Matrix, let alone Star Wars?
>>83141298
You have shit taste
/thread
>>83155628
>It's not that bad.
Oh but it is anon.
I guess I'll give it that the dialogue isn't as shit as the Prequels but in it's place it has SYMBOLISM
>>83155647
>>83155670
...when was the last time you saw the prequels, guys?
I get that you don't like BvS, but wow.
>>83141298
>solid 9/10
see fuckers fucktards... i was not crazy. good for you man, you have taste.
>>83155782
>...when was the last time you saw the prequels, guys?
Like right before TFA came out. It's pretty fresh in my memory.
But when I compared it to the prequels, I was comparing it to how people would radically defend them with long essays and images showing comparisons and "it's just too deep for you" basically exactly what is happening now.
>>83154620
he killed in the west show you silly fag
>>83141599
>and had more people (mostly blacks) stop me and said, "that was a good movie, fuck haters
because mature and intelligent people have jobs, and they are not wasting time making angry videos or shitty critics about movies.
>Why do critics hate it?
They were paid by Marvel
>Why do normies hate it?
They were paid by Marvel
>Why does /co/ hate it?
We were paid by Marvel.
>>83155338
i find it hilarious that you think less information is good.
pleb?
>>83155769
and what is wrong with that Cletus?
>>83141602
>>/co/ starts defending BvS now
hey i did it from day one. a solid 9
thats why i was surpprised to find this thread. kudos
>>83141298
My problem is: I watch the movie and scene by scene, in my mind, I saw better and smart forms to do all
I liked it. Give it a 7.5 or 8. The script has problems, and the editing is poor. But overall, I thought that it had a lot going for it.
>>83155338
>There are good parts here and there, but it doesn't make up for the collective
dude seriously do yourself a solid and dont watch apocalypse. seriously.
I thought BvS was an excellent film and honestly preferred it over Civil War and X-men Apocalypse, though I liked both.
>mfw we have to deal with years of "I-IT WAS A GREAT MOVIE!!! YOU GUYS JUST DON'T GET IT!!!" just like we had with MoS
>>83156341
BvS watched it 3 times
CW 1 time, and that was enough for me.
>>83155746
did you just /thread your own post?
People went into BvS expecting it to be more like the Marvel movies.
By which I mean they expected it to at least be moderately good.
>being obsessed with objectivity rather than excepting that everybody has opinions, especially when it comes to works of art (movies, television, comic books etc.)
>ever
>>83156649
If by "good" you mean infantile quipfest trash, then yes.
>>83156549
You need to watch 3 times BvS to understand the movie?
>>83156098
>They were paid by Marvel
I didn't like it and I wasn't paid by Marvel. Where's my fucking paycheck?
>>83156919
Yes, because you understand the trite and banal themes of Civil War. BvS makes you want to get a pen and paper and take notes, it's far more intelligent and thematic than Civil Snore.
>>83156980
Check your mail soon, it's probably just late like mine was.
Marvel had to pay a lot of people to say it wasn't good.
>>83157060
Maybe I can help you, the movie is very simple for me
what part did you not understand?
The movie sucked.
DC sucks.
>>83157264
The dream within a dream and the time travel within that dream, if it was so simple, explain that to me.
>>83141298
>score
Please anon tell me how great it was when Wonder Woman came on screen with this garbage playing obnoxiously in the background contrary to the tone that was established
https://youtu.be/Gw_o7XUX3fg
>>83141298
superman and batman are just so fucking retarded
>>83141298
MAAARTHA?
MAAAAAAAARTHA!
>>83157527
Did you not understand the meaning of that name? It's meant to show the duality between man (Batman) and god (Superman), by expressing the fact that they share something similar, it means that man and god are more alike than they are meant to believe
-Zack Snyder.
>>83156098
You know who else was paid by Marvel?Snyder.
>>83157635
that doesn't make the scene any less stupid
>>83157463
>mfw this was playing in the ''IS SHE WITH YOU SCENE''
>this random fucking rock shit was playing in the background
This was hilarious, it was so bizarre and out of place.
>>83157463
>>83157718
Reminds me of the Electro scenes in ASM2. Fucking dubstep out of nowhere.
>>83157435
You don't understand that? Ha, is obvious!
The scene have a Freudian sense: Is just Snyder cumming in the mouth of al DC fans
>>83157435
I think you mistook convoluted for complex.
>>83157635
No, meaning "Lady" http://nameberry.com/babyname/Martha
>>83157635
MAAAAAAAAARTHA!
>>83157635
There were much better ways to show this.
There was also no reason for Superman to stop trying to talk to Batman.
>>83141298
I want this meme to end.
Can someone explain to me why anyone liked Alfred in this movie? I usually hear "This movie is dogshit, but Alfred was great!" Is there some sort of strong wank for the actor or something? His performance was very bland and he was terrible at butlering. Couldn't even bring bruce snacks on a tray without the thing clattering all over. Someone two weeks into a waitressing gig can do that.
>>83157931
kill Snyder then
>>83157986
>we will never see this in the DCEU
>>83157635
And here we have a problem. See, in order to hammer in really trite and generic middle-of-the-road symbolism, they sacrificed logic and coherence of the story. In order to force those symbolic characters into whatever tired banal motif writers were thinking about, they sompletely twisted all motivation and personality of chracters.
If you are going to make a full out symbolic, surreal movie at the expense of basic narrative, then make double sure your symbolism is fucking wortth it.
What is the symbolic/thematic value that was so new, engaging and mindblowing they forced silly scene like Martha one?
>>83158062
Shit exploded real good.
