That Avengers/T-Bolts crossover was nuts in how ridiculously unstoppable Nefaria was.
Didn't Bendis kill him in Moon Knight in a stupid way?
>>82908945
Was awesome, don't be a faggot
>>82908945
Did he? Last I seen him he was escaping from prison.
Also obligatory.
>>82909195
I never said it wasn't awesome, faggot.
>>82909195
>>82909903
Now now, no need to devolve the thread into petty insults. Just post strong as shit villains.
>>82908916
Joker
>>82911205
With as much plot armor he has, he definitely qualifies.
>>82908945
No, Bendis had Wolverine kill him off-panel during a fight scene.
Because apparently after taking Mjolnir to the chest, the entire arsenal of Iron Man's armor, the skills and strength of Beast and Black Panther and Cap, Wonder Man's full strength attacks and the Vision massing himself out and dropping himself on him from a mile up, the one thing nobody ever tried was stabbing him.
Bendis is such a shit writer.
The definition of a shitty writer.
>>82908945
I thought he made him look pretty badass desu
>>82909202
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>villain
>>82911585
Yeah, up until Bendis' completely unpowered OC from his Daredevil kills him somehow.
The metaphor to take away is that no matter how important or powerful a character WAS as soon as Bendis starts writing them they can be easily beaten if he decides he doesn't like them.
This guy.
Right up there with Nefaria in the "unstoppable team-wrecking monster" catagory.
>>82911906
Busiek seems to have a love for these types of characters.
>>82911994
More like
>Busiek does his research and pays characters proper respect they are due while still being able to write his own stories.
His entire run of Avengers was him rolling his eyes at something like ten years of edgy late 80's and early to mid 90's bullshit and shitty plotlines and fixing them so the Avengers were awesome again and genuinely seemed like the greatest heroes the Marvel Universe had to offer.
Meanwhile the X-Men would wallow in their misery as the 90's Excesses Poster Child and suffer the consequences of it to the point where today they're basically a parody of themselves.
Of course EVERYONE at Marvel ended up that way, but at least the Avengers had Busiek for awhile.
>>82911906
Motha' fucking Graviton. Now THAT's a good one. He only needs one power to be a universal threat. What ever happened to him?
>>82911693
Victor pls.
>>82912611
>What ever happened to him?
The 00's happened.
>Gideon
That guy had the problem of all 90's-era "ultra-villains" like Apocalypse and Exodus and Helspont and all those guys had in the end that his powers were just too goddamn vague, though admittedly Gideon's powers were a bit more defined.
They all worked like like "more powerful then you until the plot arbitrarily allows you to do the some thing you were already doing, only this time it works for some reason".
Guys like that were always the end of some huge conspiracy or megacorporation that nobody ever heard of until they showed up and vanished as soon as they stopped being used anymore too.
Gideon's thing was a megacorporation, right?
It doesn't help that new characters were being created left and right (to sell more trading cards and action figures) and they were always created by some of the worst writers around.
>>82908916
Yeah he could be killed by the Matrix but to my mind any character who can be killed by one thing and one thing only is OP. Even Superman got beaten to death.
And come on - he's a gigantic planet with huge devil horns that eats other planets. And he doesn't even need someadmittedly cool as shitspace surfer to help him. Dude's pretty bitchin.
>>82913073
His cartoon origin blew fucking chunks.
His Marvel comics origin was basically "Cosmic Robot Satan", which is pretty fucking rad.
Marvel did good work with the Transformers and GI Joe comics in the 80's, way better stuff then you'd honestly think they would.
>>82912611
Don't be a Richards sympathizer. Doom has done zero wrongs in his life.
>>82908916
got a higher res version of that image?
>>82912133
he used Firestar, I like him
>>82913797
I don't as a rule have waifus.
But if I did, I would pick Angelica.
>>82912870
Yeah, it kinda sucks how villains like Graviton pretty much have to be the center of the conflict because of how strong they are. It feels like they get left out a bit too often.
>>82908945
Don't worry, he came back later thouh nobody bothered explaining it, which I guess is poetic justice to all the times Bendis ignored continuity.
>>82914166
They get left out because they weren't marketable characters in the 90's.
Notice how all major recurring villains in the Marvel Universe now are almost always X-Men villains and other heroes just fight other heroes?
Villains showing up relies entirely on their popularity and notoriety now, and since Marvel's most famous characters for over a decade were X-Men it's X-Men villains who get top billing most days with other villains being lucky to show up in a movie and then correspondingly get exactly one arc of comics to tie-in before promptly being forgotten again.
Or worse, some horrible Donut Steel like Ex Nihilo showing up and acting like he's big news.
>>82914300
In Nefaria's case he's died several times anyway, just like Wonder Man has.
And just like Wonder Man it basically never sticks.
>>82914318
Huh, I never really noticed that. You do have a point, pretty much solidifying why selling off X-men was Marvel's biggest mistake.
And now that I'm looking at this thread, I also just now realize that that when it comes to Marvel, the most powerful villains are almost always walking stereotypes of villains. They have a guy named Sinister for fucks sake. If he had a mustache he'd sure as hell twirl it while laughing.
>>82912870
Vague powers:
Gideon was an immortal mutant power mimic and a rich '90s corporate ass, Apocalypse killed him because he was also an immortal mutant in the same immortal mutant club but he had psychic and shapeshifting abilities (like Mr.Fantastic, not Mystique) enhanced by alien tech, unlike the immortal Exodus who had psychic and teleportation powers but no real motivations beyond being a fanatical Magneto goon.
And because I didn't read much Image all I know about Helspont is that he was an immortal alien invader with magic powers.
Any other questions?
>>82914789
Sometimes Apocalypse has other powers too. Originally it was just his full-on shape-shifting stuff, but for years writers just used his powers as "whatever, he gives himself more powers when he feels like it".
Helspont has strength and supposedly unlimited energy powers, but all he really does is shoot blasts I guess.
And Exodus can sometimes shoot fire or energy blasts.
I didn't read the Wikipedia for this stuff or looked at the Handbook of Nobody Who Writes Reads These, I read the ACTUAL COMIC BOOKS and half of the time with Apocalypse and Exodus they just do a new thing without even politely explaining it like Magneto will do because they tended to be handled by lazy-ass writers.
Gideon you're right about though; all he ever does is copy superpowers, he's at least consistent about that. He's the one that showed Speedball that he could actually do a lot more with his powers if he tried.
>>82914724
Yeah, Marvel used to be a lot more inventive with their villians. They would have criminals with one crazy gimmick used in a clever way to get away with their always specific goals.
Back then the superstrong villians like Molicule Man or The Juggernaut didn't have ambitions to take over the planet, half the time you could talk them out of commiting crimes.
Once they started making more and more powerhouses they kinda forgot to give these guys human motivations, I still don't understand WHY Mr.Sinister gives a fuck about genetics so damned much.
Evil scientist? That's the means to the ends, what exactly are the ends? They never said.
>>82914724
Sinister is another guy with pretty vague powers, but they seem to have settled on "he's a shapeshifting science lunatic".
He has done psychic stuff too but X-Men psychics are a lot vaguer then they used to be and being psychic often just means you can pull a bunch of powers out of your ass.
Back when Claremont was writing he actually was a bit more sparse with it; Jean had some telepathic abilities, but the vast majority of her powers were telekinetic in nature and that seemed to be almost the entirety of what she did after she became Phoenix outside a few isolated instances.
Emma Frost conversely had no telekinetic powers at all (her "Psi Blasts" seem to be able to affect physical objects but that was true of Professor X too so maybe that's just a thing that happens) but was extremely precise with her telepathic ones, letting her do stuff like erase memories, alter personalities, subtly brainwash people, and even switch bodies that other telepathics couldn't do.
Now writers make even psychic character an unlimited power house that can do basically anything at all it seems like, which is just lazy as hell.
>>82915063
He claims he's about manipulating human genetics to overcome Apocalypse who despite giving Sinister his powers originally (which is why they're so similar) is his mortal enemy.
But really, for Sinister it's just because he gets off on being crazy and convoluted and weird and he's into mad science shit. His awesome arc where he made an entire city populated by himselves and an army of Jean Grey and Gambit clones for example shows that in the end he's just a fucking nutcase.
>>82915008
In Marvel comics "psychic" has come to mean all sorts of brain powers; Exodus and Apocalypse are telepathic, telekinetic, energy manipulators, and sometimes "psychic energy vampires", but that all falls under "psychic" in Marvel-Land.
One of these days Professor X is going to use each of those too... because he's "psychic".
>>82915261
That's what I meant.
It's basically the "cop-out" power, which is sad because Claremont actually gave it limits for different characters and separated exactly what they could do with them and stuff.
He knew that you didn't necessarily need to make a character the most powerful character ever for him to be interesting, you just need to put effort into writing them well.
>>82915172
He clones and genetically engineers himself. He can have any gene-based superpower he likes.
But the weird part is that he started out as normal baseline human.
>>82915340
Ironically despite his hard-on for mutants he himself is basically a result of Apocalyose experimenting on him.
Which I guess means his body is probably composed of the T-O Virus like Apocalypse's is so he's actually as much machine as he is a human being.
>>82913432
Latverian shills go home.
>>82915335
Well, at least it's somewhat defined.
Remember when Superman got all sorts of electromagnetic superpowers because some writer thought that was a trade up from what he had before?
What the F- WHY??? How did that make any sense?
At least when The Flash timetravels it's because he's moving faster than light, but when a Green Lantern can make kryptonite because kryptonite is green...
They really abandon all pretense of a structured worldview in DC. (God save the Batman!)
>>82915436
Shills or no, Dr.DOOM(!) is a great example of a human, just a human, who is motivated more than he is powerful.
He's really relatible. And look at the fanbase he has inspired! (Nuts, all of 'em. But they love him.)
>>82913073
Apparently he's a Big Fuckin Deal in Transformers mythos. His iterations across different canons act as avatars of a singular being, basically making all Unicrons the same character. And he's collectively devoured 22% of the known multiverse.
>>82915340
Wait, so whenever he gets destroyed, one of the Sinister clones takes over? Or are the clones part of his jean (lol) experiments?
>>82911342
Makes perfect sense to me
>>82915628
I don't recall a Green Lantern creating kryptonite ever. Also, what the hell are you rambling about?
>>82914724
>Huh, I never really noticed that. You do have a point, pretty much solidifying why selling off X-men was Marvel's biggest mistake.
Either sell X-Men and Spidey or join Valiant.
>>82912611
Motha' fucking Graviton. Now THAT's a good one. He only needs one power to be a universal threat. What ever happened to him?
Died a couple of times, got better, power level fluctuated a couple of times so he could job to iron man, became a minister of AIM, last seen in Pleasant hill making an unbreakable shield at Zemo's command which all heroes combined couldn't break until the introduction of the "all new, all different" Quasar who is mentored by the former Quasar.
Caught or still at large.
>>82918322
Your delusions make so little sense that only a /co/sual would ever fall for it, isn't there a Steven Universe thread you can go troll instead of us?
>>82911906
He was part of the standoff event, where he formed a shield which was impenetrable.
At least untill the writer decided that the latest Quasar would be able to overpower him through her first usage of the quantum-bands.
![01-Hobgoblin-ASM-238-e6cd4[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/9V6o06d.jpg "01-Hobgoblin-ASM-238-e6cd4[1].jpg")
Using the power of editorial meddling, author disagreements and retcons, Hobgoblin got away with everything.
>>82917734
He makes clones with backups of his memories implanted into their clone brains.
He also has a whole group of people who he's secretly abducted and implanted his memories into their subconscious minds, in case all the clones are killed off too they just turn into a Mr.Sinister and take his place.
>>82918263
It was in an issue of JLA, Batman talked GL through it in what had to be the most idiotic plot armoring I've ever read.
Many Mahvel villains
>>82918441
...AND made a profit from it.
>>82917734
Who even the fuck knows with Sinister?
He'd addicted to complexity like I'm addicted to caffeine.
>>82918441
He's not OP, everyone just forgets he exists.
Which makes him exactly the same as about ninety percent of Marvel's villains these days.
>>82918470
>It was in an issue of JLA, Batman talked GL through it in what had to be the most idiotic plot armoring I've ever read.
And Tom using Hal's plan in Legacy.
>>82918474
Here you go. Hilariously OP villian, made to order.
>>82908945
>how ridiculously unstoppable Nefaria was.
He was depicted like that consistently. In his first outing like that he pwned the Avengers.
>>82911906
Graviton. He must have died... how many times now? He outright can't die. Even if he wants to.
>>82912611
What happens if Gideon faces an opponent who has no special abilities at all?
...He probably has some innate powers, too.
>>82913073
>he doesn't even need some admittedly cool as shit space surfer to help him.
Instead he had Galvatron.
>>82918833
>Graviton. He must have died... how many times now? He outright can't die. Even if he wants to.
Dude got compressed into a singularity and came back, so even if he CAN die it takes a lot. Nefaria actually can't die though; just like Wonder Man eventually his body will reconstitute itself.
>What happens if Gideon faces an opponent who has no special abilities at all?...He probably has some innate powers, too.
As far as I can recall, that literally never came up. He wasn't a very popular villain for very long and they were giving EVERYONE superpowers in the 90's if they didn't have them it seemed like, and if they used gadgets they took away the gadget and granted them superpowers that did the same instead.
>Instead he had Galvatron.
Man, what a shitty replacement for Norrin HE is.
>>82918793
Supes shredded that incarnation anon, literally ripped him in half
Even with the death field he wasn't shit, he was only dangerous because of his infection
>>82911205
Joker's overpoweredness depends on who's writing him.
Some writers will only write him as a pathetic combatant who makes up for his lack of combat expertise with his laughing gas, his chaoticness confusing Batman, and just generally being foolish but dangerous to those who severely underestimate him.
But with other writers, you've got a joker who can BARELY be stopped by anybody, even the entire Batfamily, a group of people who are some of the best fighters and strategists on DC's planet, can't stop him(Death of the Family). He's basically powerful enough to be a fucking Justice League villain at some points.
>>82918996
Doomsday has been a fucking punk ever since his first appearance and they overuse him so much that it's embarrassing.
The only explanation is that the men managing and writing comics literally do not understand why even they themselves liked comics and certain characters back in the day despite having grown up to work on them themselves.
That's just fucking sad it is.
![2643238-onslaught[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/E0iZeUY.jpg "2643238-onslaught[1].jpg")
>>82908916
Did someone say Hilariously broken villain?
No one on the thread aint got shit to the Big O
>>82919069
His goals never made any sense at all, but I'll give him this; he had at least two really memorable lines.
Admittedly the only reason anyone remembers them is Marvel versus Capcom, but still.
>>82919138
He had a perfect build up tho.
Also his goal was to wipe out humans and useless mutans then for a reason I forgot he went berserk and tried to kill the whole planet
>>82919171
>Also his goal was to wipe out humans and useless mutans then for a reason I forgot he went berserk and tried to kill the whole planet
This was never actually explained in the comic.
It was explained in an issue of Wizard magazine AFTER the storyline had ended. It's kinda telling that when asked about how he felt about the Onslaught storyline years later the creator just responded;
>"He was that red guy right?"
He was just one more thing they did in the 90's to boost sales a little bit, you know?
There WAS a lot of buildup and it was pretty cool at ramping up the menace of him without him ever being physically seen, and the reveal of his true identity was honestly a pretty good one even if you were paying attention it was foreshadowed well before then.
In some ways I kinda see him as the "end" of the 90's X-Men in most respects, though this is not precisely accurate.
>>82919007
Joker's JL level threat now thanks to Endgame, pleb. Deal with it.
>>82919171
He wanted to kill humans for the Mutants to dominate the world.
Then he got to see a world where the Mutants dominated the world, but it was shit and they did destroy it(Age of Apocalypse straight from X-Man's brain)
So he went "FUCK THIS SHIT! FUCK YOU ALL!" and tried to kill everything.
>>82919215
what are you saying? It was explained in the crossover.
>>82908916
Jean Grey
For some reason people including readers and writers have been tricked into thinking shes a hero.
Thats OP as fuck.
>>82919241
Truly a product of Generation X
>Wants a thing
>"Here is thing"
>DO NOT WANT THING
>"I BLAME EVERYONE ELSE FOR THIS"
Even count Nefaria, as awesome as he always has been, doesn't come close now.Appearance in the Ultimates fucking when
>>82919215
He was a great ending until they decided to nerf him to ground and revive him.
But Onslaught Unleashed was pretty good for a 4 chapter short
>>82919327
He's literally a plot device.
Nothing is as powerful as that.
>>82919007
>lololol you cant kill this guy because he's /b/ personified
I fucking hate joker and deadpool
>>82910430
Would whip Superboy Prime's ass.
>>82919459
Only DCAU Amazo or the silly Thought Robot could take a non-nerfed Composite Superman on in a straight fight.
>>82919379
If they devolved him into a cosmic level being already he could be used more often and better, but it seems nobody except Remender had any idea what to do.
>>82919459
>>82919489
Oh, so THAT'S where that new Mutants and Masterminds villain came from. Nice.
>>82919069
Damn it, you beat me to it!
And now something cartoon-related for variety, Van Kleiss was complete bullshit. A nanite vampire and manipulator in a show where the entire earth is covered in them meant that he would've been unstoppable if not for the fact that he was completely insane.
>>82919454
>lololol you cant kill this guy because he's /b/ personified
>I fucking hate joker and deadpool
Preaching to the choir, anon. I can't stand them because it's just so easy to fuck up with them because writers can't help but jerk off to them.
Also I'm having a bit of a hard time thinking of ludicrously OP DC villains because everyone's OP in DC. Darkseid's a bit of an obvious choice, but it's clear this guy is the reigning king of OP.
>>82920119
I remember him joining the Yellow Lanterns, did he get nerfed? Because I can't imagine anything even remotely standing a chance against the Yellow Lanterns with him without one.
>>82920569
Pre-Crisis and Crisis powerlevels don't make sense and were tampered with very often.
>>82911342
You're referring to the end of his first run on New Avengers, right? I thought Wolverine didn't do much damage, and it was Carol "Why does everybody forget I'm an energy sponge" Danvers that took him out?
>>82911906
I'm curious, has Graviton ever fought Magneto?
For as much as Graviton likes to wank himself over "I control one of the primary forces of the universe," it'd be interesting if he were a bit less boastful if he fought someone who controlled one of the other three.
>>82908916
Nefaria seems pretty lame, all he has going for him is HURR POWER LEVEL SO BIG direct combat nonsense
>>82919069
>Punches Juggernaut across a continent and rips the Gem of Cyttorak out of his body
>Claims to be able to give Jean the power of the Phoenix again
>Kidnaps Nate Grey and Franklin Richards, probably the two most powerful beings on the planet
>Creates a fucking sun
>Hulk destroys his body and he becomes A BEING OF PURE PSIONIC ENERGY
He's like the Silver Skeeter of the Marvel U.
>>82919215
>There WAS a lot of buildup and it was pretty cool at ramping up the menace of him without him ever being physically seen, and the reveal of his true identity was honestly a pretty good one even if you were paying attention it was foreshadowed well before then.
That whole period of X-Men was pretty good. There were characters mentioning him, throughout different books, and then he was revealed in Wizard and he sort of looked like Magneto, which was sort of a red herring. Then the issue where he revealed himself to Jean Grey and they took a tour of the astral plane and jumped into different peoples' minds was so fucking great. The reveal as Xavier and them tying up the loose "X-Men traitor" plotline was great. It all went to shit when it spilled into other Marvel books.
>In some ways I kinda see him as the "end" of the 90's X-Men in most respects, though this is not precisely accurate.
I think it pretty much was. The only big X-Men 90's crossovers after this were that one with Bastion (the only good thing about that was Iceman saving everyone's ass), maybe the one where Magneto got Genosha, and the Twelve. Before they were pumping them out yearly.
This was also when Marvel went bankrupt and started experimenting with lower-tier characters, which is when Maverick and Joe Kelly's Deadpool came about. The stories after Onslaught set the tone for the 2000's X-Men.
>>82912133
this
>>82913073
I also liked the semi-omniscience he had going on with those monitor things inside of him, and his ability to rebuild other beings as his servants.
>>82918263
>>82923221
>covers
>canon
>>82912133
The irony of it was that the last of the bloated X-Men crossovers, Onslaught, paved the way for Busiek's Avengers.
Onslaught brought Heroes Reborn with Liefeld (ugh) writing them. After the Avengers came back to the proper Marvel U, Busiek took over. The X-Men basically started dropping in popularity while the Avengers became relevant again.
A lot of other good shit came from X-Men sort of tanking. Good creators started writing new shit and revamping terrible characters. Kelly Deadpool and the Thunderbolts (created from the aftermath of Onslaught), Genis-vell Captain Marvel, Slingers, etc.
