Cartoons vs Anime
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We all know which is better
>>82814041
Pussy
>>82814041
That Arthur episode has inspired an impressive amount of rage so I think it deserves some credit.
>>82814041
Yes, it's quite obvious.
>Cartoons can be canceled because of the slightest ideological variation from the middle American norm because of the influence on children
>Anime can literally give children seizures and still go on for 20 years
>>82814221
>Cartoons can be canceled because of the slightest ideological variation from the middle American norm because of the influence on children
Give me 5 examples, please.
>>82814041
But I like both.
Neither is better then the other
>>82814221
>>Anime can literally give children seizures and still go on for 20 years
They can get cancelled too. Some of my favorite anime gets "wrapped up" too quickly because funding gets pulled away.
>>82817303
Why does /co/ like KoTH so goddamn much, it was a terrible boring ass show, with a main character who needed to be severely beaten with a bat.
>>82817096
Off the top of my head, Bobo bo whatever only aired maybe 2episodes in my area and was immediately dropped on a saturday morning program. Literally all saturday morning cartoons since then have stopped airing altogether and it has been a very long 7 years hoping they will come back.
>>82817371
You just answered your own question. We like it ironically.
What is Serial Experiments Lain of /co/ ?
>>82817650
Cyberchase.
>>82817385
That has nothing to do with western cartoons getting the axe. That's a lack of localization directed at children.
>>82817385
>your network dropped Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo
you poor child, that shit was actually funny
>>82817341
Anime getting cancelled is very rare. The only example I know off the top of my head is the original Gundam. The sponsor pulled out because of creative differences and the show ended prematurely.
>>82817650
Nothing.
>>82817805
KotH is casual as fuck though. We're not exactly talking about a hidden gem here, it was a major Fox sitcom.
>tfw when US is filled with tumblr show creators and reboots
>tfw when Japan made a good show that started out as a webcomic with shitty art
>pic related it's one Punch Man
>>82818789
>Cartoons are filled with [negative connotation]
>But Japan has produced this (one) good thing
Anyone who thinks either cartoons or anime is inherently better than the other probably needs to be slapped
Their production processes and quality are so ridiculously arguable it's not viable to find even so much as a proper grounds of agreement to begin with
>>82817341
>>82818424
Anime dont get cancelled, they simply never get a second season
>anime has a huge variety of genres, but is still 80% percent shit
>cartoons are mostly comedy and lack other genres or fail to evoke any emotion, especially today. but theres still good stuff
So neither are better but I would pick anime over cartoons any day especially if we're talking about recent stuff
>>82818789
>tfw western webcomics will never get an animated show.
>>82818869
Welcome to the butter vs margarine thread, you probably need to be slapped for your post.
>>82818789
Superman already seems a lot more humble than this guy.
>>82818869
Anime is inherently better, though. It has better character design, animation, camera work, cinematography, background art, sound design, music, voice acting and writing and vastly more variety in genres and themes.
>>82814041
I like animated action/adventure
Those way too few and far between in cartoons, nevermind that most get cancelled before a proper ending. I'm glad I went back to anime recently, there just not enough variety in cartoons.
>>82817341
The only example of an anime getting cancelled that I know of is that battle programmer thing.
>>82818698
Who even watched King of the Hill anyway? I have a good idea of Seth MacFarlane shows primary demographic, and the simpsons, but what demographic that watched KotH is large enough to keep it running for so long?
How many cartoon genres are there?
>>82819099
Its basically a live action sitcom in animated form
>>82818912
CAD did.
>>82818892
So, they get reruns?
>>82818915
I know exactly what kind of thread this is
>>82819005
>camera work
You what
The rest of what you're saying is exactly what I'm saying: debatable as hell.
If you wanted to argue that anime is inherently better because it pushes insanely for its own standards in production, you'd have a better point.
>>82819217
That should never have happened.
>>82819411
>You what
The imaginary camera through which we look at animation. Where it is positioned and how it is moved.
>The rest of what you're saying is exactly what I'm saying: debatable as hell.
Not at all. All of the things I listed are done better in anime.
>>82819475
Also, we can say as an opposite example that America does live action better than Japan. While Japan has produced many great live action movies and some good TV shows, they still can't compete with America on the whole, especially when it comes to production values.
>>82818912
...there was Axe Cop and We Bare Bears.First read your sentence and thought you were actually suggesting webcomics all adapted in one show a la House of Mouse or something...the grammar is so confusing for me.
>>82819475
>The imaginary camera through which we look at animation
Oh I know, it's just that when you already listed "animation" I kinda figured that territory came with.
>Not at all. All of the things I listed are done better in anime.
I'll give an example here.
The problem with anime is that it's expensive to make, to the point where working in the industry is basically like serving in a sweatshop. This leads to many, many works that are rushed, unfocused, and so on. You can notice the writing in a large number of anime go down the drain, and problems like these are exactly what back only a relatively few true successes in sales every season, as opposed to the many others that don't quite make it.
Whereas with voice acting you could argue that it's better because everyone is so elite due to struggling through schools and competition to breed the best of the best. This isn't quite the case with its writing in the same medium. Mangaka are not inherently equivalent with good writers, they are just people who need to get their work out there, and editors among others are there to smoothen things out; this can equate to polishing a rock or polishing a turd. The same more or less applies to original anime writers. So to say writing is inherently better in anime, when the writers aren't evidenced to be on another caliber, yet when environment for it is objectively much more harmful, is wrong.
Again, this is something that can go extremely back and forth. Unless you list something a little more concrete, your stance isn't quite going much anywhere.
>>82819620
I also forgot to mention that everything is extremely sensitive to time period too
Back in the 70s you could argue cartoons were easily superior to anime in every regard because Japan was still trying to get out of another economic rut. 80s Japan had the bubble economy and anime was booming. 90s was when that started popping for anime, 2000s was "I can't into digital" period, and current is "I can into digital now but my economic formula is back to more or less garbage". Cartoons had a bunch of decade-eras with largely fluctuating quality too.
It's one thing to argue inherent quality of mediums, but to reference anything outside that as proof is just silly. I doubt it's impossible to make objective analyses on which is better through some hardcore thought but even more I doubt it's a worthwhile thing to do. You'd have to wade through decades of history and information to even begin making a proper measure between the two. They're so different in what they have to offer it's not quite something I believe on anyone when they think they have the answer.
>mfw I found out from the other thread that each episode of Family guy costs 2 million dollars each
ANIME IS BETTER NOW, LET WESTERN ANIMATION BURN
>>82819754
Source?
>>82818912
>we will never get a questionable content show
thank god
>>82819788
Was this thread
>>82773581
>>82817650
Boring
>>82819620
Around 2011 it was estimated that anime costs, on average, $150,000 per episode. American shows at the time cost between $500,000 and $2,000,000.
Even the most modest anime have better production values than American shows, and I don't know about you but I prefer occasional problems (that are usually corrected for the BDs) over consistent lameness.
There are somewhere between 30 and 50 full length shows produced every season, and some of them are bound to be creative and/or commercial failures or have production issues. Some are great successes and unexpected hits. Most are somewhere in the middle.
Do you think it's better to cautiously produce very few shows and hope to keep them on the air for the next hundred years?
Writing is better in anime because anime covers such a huge amount of ground and draws from so many different sources compared to American animation.
>>82819714
In the 70s anime already had shows like Future Boy Conan, Mobile Suit Gundam, Heidi: Girl of the Alps, Devilman and Galaxy Express 999.
>current is "I can into digital now but my economic formula is back to more or less garbage".
A popular belief among people who don't actually watch current anime.
>You'd have to wade through decades of history and information to even begin making a proper measure between the two.
You are overcomplicating and obfuscating the issue. If you compare any of the areas I mentioned during any era except maybe the 60s, anime nearly always comes out on top (and don't forget that many American shows back in the day were actually produced in Japan). American animation fundamentally does not have means to compete because of how much it sabotages itself.
>>82819944
Whoops sorry didn't finish the rest of that post, but your original point was that anime does everything better, so I'm going to stick to writing as my point of contention here, keep things less cluttered than needed. Since you were arguing for inherent quality.
>Writing is better in anime because anime covers such a huge amount of ground and draws from so many different sources compared to American animation.
That makes it more varied, not better. Don't confuse the two.
>>82819156
>Half of the "Themes" are just porn
Anime was a mistake
>>82814041
Yes, the winner is clearly Bandes Dessinées.
>>82819823
>This is what $2,000,000 gets you in America:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GNPgAQ4SuA
>This is what $150,000 - $300,000 gets you in Japan:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92cesUa9ORc
Where does the money go
>>82819156
How can anyone actually have the balls to post this when this image unironically treats demographic like a genre and when half the themes are infamously sexual
>>82818869
This. They are both shit in their own way
>>82820041
To the overpaid big-name voice actors, I would presume
>>82819885
I'm not treating this as a main part of the argument anymore
>>82819993
but I just wanna throw out there:
>In the 70s anime already had shows like Future Boy Conan, Mobile Suit Gundam, Heidi: Girl of the Alps, Devilman and Galaxy Express 999.
All of these have aged much less graciously than you may like to think.
>A popular belief among people who don't actually watch current anime.
What's even your reasoning behind this?
>>82820075
This
>>82819993
>That makes it more varied, not better. Don't confuse the two.
It also makes it better. Anime is more than episodic children's cartoons and adult sitcoms. It covers every genre and almost every kind of story for every target demographic. The stories come from freelance writers, manga artists, light novelists, novelists, game developers and visual novel developers. A ton of different people from different media writing stories about everything under the sun. There's no way American shows can compete with that.
>>82820085
>All of these have aged much less graciously than you may like to think.
Of course they don't look as good as more modern shows, but I wasn't comparing them against anime. Conan has some pretty tight background art though.
>What's even your reasoning behind this?
The better question is: what's your reasoning behind the notion that today's anime is garbage?
I like both of them really. I watch more anime than cartoons because there is more stuff what i like in anime. And yes i enjoy some CGDCT even when /co/ hates it.
The only animu I remember watching in my laifu was one about some dudes in a school who fought each other with mini version of themselves and some dude who could feel the pain his mini version feel.
It had like one season and other episode that had nothing to do with the story and then it died and never came back.
>>82820141
That whole paragraph is just repeating the variety statement.
Nothing about what you said assures any of them goes through quality training to be better writers than the bare necessity. I could easily make the counterpoint that because anime is so hefty to create, they make this variety out of a necessity simply to stay alive in the industry, rather than because variety has been well evidenced to be more than just a correlation to a solid script.
Again, do not confuse the two.
>Conan has some pretty tight background art though.
Gotta admit, anime background art always gave me a good hard on.
>The better question is: what's your reasoning behind the notion that today's anime is garbage?
Read the post again bruh, I said economy, not the medium.
>>82820283
We can't go around comparing every single American show against every single anime show, but we can look at the big picture.
American shows: mostly television writers writing an extremely narrow range of programming that's almost entirely episodic.
Anime shows: writers from all disciplines writing in all genres for all audiences about almost everything, usually in serial form.
I wonder which of these is more likely to produce quality writing. I wonder which of the two is going to adapt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Passage this year.
>I could easily make the counterpoint that because anime is so hefty to create, they make this variety out of a necessity simply to stay alive in the industry, rather than because variety has been well evidenced to be more than just a correlation to a solid script.
Anime is relatively low risk to produce because of the production committee system, and there is no "they" trying to "stay alive." Most anime are adaptations, and adaptations are usually commissioned by the publisher with the studio acting as a contractor. The variety of anime is not a product of some concerted effort.
>Read the post again bruh, I said economy, not the medium.
What is the "economic formula" then and how is it "garbage"?
>>82818912
Dr.Mcninja TAS when?
>>82814041
What a wonderful time today.
>>82820488
How much did Cowboy BeepBoop cost per episode?
Seems pretty quality to me.
>>82820488
>I wonder which of these is more likely to produce quality writing
You really don't understand what subject you're talking here do you.
It doesn't matter. I'm spelling this out for the last time, because you can't seem to get how to move past the big point of division here: writing quality isn't dependent on format and especially not on concept, it's dependent on execution. For the third time, you have stressed variety, not quality.
If you really wanted to cherrypick then I could easily say that Disney has produced many cartoons, and that Disney having the high reputation for quality they do, would be much likelier to hire people with better backgrounds in writing accomplishments than your average anime company. Keep in mind this is just a supposition/example, but still focuses significantly more on the reward for merit rather than hire for need.
If this was a variety argument you wouldn't have any logical opposition from post one, but you took up quality. So stick to it or just drop the argument.
>What is the "economic formula" then and how is it "garbage"?
This is something I'd have to detail in another few posts but generally it boils down to its economy running an unstable amount more on merchandise than something more viable such as revenue, which causes vicious cycles that hurt people both people working for and supporting anime more than should be acceptable.
And before you make the same mistake everyone else I tell this to seems to make, I'm saying it's garbage because it's unhealthy, not because it's unworkable.
>>82820630
I have no idea, but apparently quality and budget don't correlate much if at all. The animation director of One Punch Man said the show was made with an average budget. Having talented and motivated production staff is far more important, and having too much staff probably reduces quality because more things have to be delegated and managed and checked. So it's not like you can just go to the animator store and buy more animators and therefore more quality. One thing that does help is giving the staff more time before the show starts airing, but there's no doubt a lot of factors influencing that.
>>82820739
>writing quality isn't dependent on format and especially not on concept, it's dependent on execution.
Not the guy you were replying to, but you are flat out wrong. If you are a writer and you are restricted o write only what is deemed appropriate for a very young audience, chances are, you won't create a story as good as a writer of equal skill level who doesn't have the same restrictions as you do.
Western cartoons happen to be restricted in ways that japanese animation isn't, hence anime can explore and experiment with genres, topics, themes etc that western cartoons will never touch.
>>82819005
>implying anime 'humor' isn't a warcrime
>implying half the 'genres' aren't just bad porn
>trying to pass off target demographics as an actual genre
Your logic is bad and you should feel bad.
>>82820854
>implying half the 'genres' aren't just bad porn
Yeah but the other half is still far more variety than what western cartoons have to offer.
i like One Piece and Berserk but those are like western shit drawn by japanese men.
>>82820739
It is absolutely the case that anime is far more likely to feature quality writing because of the reasons I just explained to you. Anime draws from manga, novels, light novels, games and visual novels, all of them their own industries and markets with their own internal competition. There are stories in every genre about almost everything for every demographic.
American shows can't even directly compete in most areas because they have nothing with which to compete with, because they are almost nothing but children's cartoons and adult sitcoms.
>If you really wanted to cherrypick then I could easily say that Disney has produced many cartoons, and that Disney having the high reputation for quality they do, would be much likelier to hire people with better backgrounds in writing accomplishments than your average anime company.
We have a concrete understanding of what Disney has actually produced, and it does not stack up against anime.
>This is something I'd have to detail in another few posts but generally it boils down to its economy running an unstable amount more on merchandise than something more viable such as revenue, which causes vicious cycles that hurt people both people working for and supporting anime more than should be acceptable.
The production committee system distributes the financial risk of producing an anime among several companies. Having many different sources of income (discs, rentals, streaming, licensing, source material, music CDs, merchandise, special events, sponsorship deals and collaborations with businesses) is safer than relying on a single source. Producing 12-26 episodes at a time is a relatively small investment.
Seems like a sound system to me.
>>82817371
I live in Texas, pretty close to where Arlen is supposed to be located. I get a lot of the background humor and it's funny to me.
>>82820041
>>82820130
I would imagine a big chunk of family guy's budget goes to music production as well. They really go all out in terms of music on that show.
>>82820854
>implying anime 'humor' isn't a warcrime
Humor is very subjective.
>implying half the 'genres' aren't just bad porn
Anime porn has almost nothing to do with the rest of the anime industry. It's inconsequential and released straight to video. People rarely even talk about it outside of /h/.
>trying to pass off target demographics as an actual genre
Where did I try to do that?
>>82821046
>They really go all out in terms of music on that show.
Going all out on music makes me think of something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjfuXgfDxxU
Not this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCah4MngQcA
>>82820854
Well i do agree with that japanese humour is pretty bad but there is some good shit there too.
>>82820918
>Yeah but the other half is still far more variety than what western cartoons have to offer.
Yes, because 'game based' is obviously a genre of the highest artistic integrity, and in no a way a glorified toy commercial that would make He Man wince. 'Horror' totally works as a genre outside live action and print. And its not like the West has action, sci fi and artsy independent stuff, nor is there any overlap between genres.
>>82821060
>Humor is very subjective.
>can't even feign defending this abomination
>Anime porn has almost nothing to do with the rest of the anime industry.
You mean the other half of the industry?
>Where did I try to do that?
>>82819156
>>82814041
I like both because I'm a colossal faggot who needs to die.
>>82821183
Point is it isn't leagues better than the West like Animefag likes to imply, and most of the time isn't close to it.
>>82821020
Not the guy. But I can break down what he's saying in layman's: Quantity does not equal quality. Just because anime has a ton of genres does not mean that anime as a whole is inherently better.
Just a example, but if I was making two fruit salads. One with 5 ingredients, and another with 30, and those 30 ingredients were all rotting, the bigger fruit salad wouldn't be inherently better just because it had more variety.
I'm not saying that anime is rotten. But variety does NOT mean that its better.
>>82820818
>chances are, you won't create a story as good as a writer of equal skill level who doesn't have the same restrictions as you do.
This works both ways.
Let's take the supposition that the two writer of extremely equal skill went on to help a kid's cartoon, as opposed to the other who went to go help with a drama. You'd expect the drama to be more exploring and touching, but just because it can accomplish that doesn't guarantee the cartoon will be of a lesser written piece.
If the defining evidence we were using was the average cartoon show against the average anime, variety would definitely be the deciding factor. But the scope of both cartoons and anime expands well past both of those to the point of it being too unwell a comparison. If I was sticking strictly to that though then yeah I'd have no way of disagreeing.
>>82821020
>Anime draws from manga, novels, light novels, games and visual novels, all of them their own industries and markets with their own internal competition.
This detail is better, but still not definitive.
Those sources draw from all sorts of requirements with extremely fluctuating results. A game is incomparably likelier to be focused on its gameplay rather than its written aspects. And only so many visual novels manage to get adaptations compared to how many are actually made, despite writing being its biggest component . It'd make a lot more sense if not juxtaposed just now with games being part of the same group. Which goes back to you-know-what-point about the focus of the conversation being about this and not that.
If the internal competition meant so much for the writing department, I doubt Attack on Titan and Naruto would got nearly as far as they would've.
You get where I'm going with this. The internal competition helps, but it is not a defining detail, which is what your part of the argument needs.
>Seems like a sound system to me.
So long as that wasn't meant to put words in my mouth.
>>82821147
That video didn't show any of the new material that they bring in small orchestras to play.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpS4ebEtLUE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KreUinWX6xM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFgPicwIbf8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa22MBGkl9o
You have to admit that nowadays, family guy has some pretty elaborate original scores.
>>82821225
In Japan, "game" also encompasses visual novels which are focused purely on storytelling. Steins;Gate and Kanon for example are based on visual novels.
I don't know what toy commercials have to do with video games.
>And its not like the West has action, sci fi and artsy independent stuff, nor is there any overlap between genres.
Western animation has only a fraction of what anime offers.
>can't even feign defending this abomination
Well what do you expect me to say? Humor just is very subjective.
>You mean the other half of the industry?
I don't know what the size of the porn side is, but it can't be much. The videos are half an hour long and have subpar production quality. You could be completely ignorant of anime porn and not miss anything because it's so inconsequential (just like real porn). I don't know why you're even bringing it up when it's so irrelevant. There's 30-50 half hour long TV shows released every three months and you're talking about porn videos.
>Where did I try to do that?
>>>82819156
That's not my post, and it doesn't even say that demographics are genres.
>>82818912
Homestuck can probably get something.
Anime and Japan is fucking garbage. So, Cartoons win by default.
>>82821478
Japan has never produced anything as disgraceful as new PPG or Problem Solverz
And they also produced this tacticool piece of animation, which is the best animated anything I've seen in my entire life, and this was 80s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l3yEGblTj8
>>82819005
>anime
>better character design
Bait
Will western cartoons ever be as good as anime?
>>82821506
>Japan has never produced anything as disgraceful as new PPG or Problem Solverz
Problem Solverz is another disposable shit show that was made for a shit block. Who cares? Also, why are weebs so enormed by detailed pictures with barely any real animation? The pictures look pretty, but the animation is okay. Take an animation class and you'll see that anime really isn't that good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WEFIp6GYT0
Japanese are to animation what Chinese are to manufacturing.
>>82821534
Most likely the op made this thread for bait. Anime is okay, overrated as shit though.
>>82821603
That guy in the video is a fag literally and figuratively. Anyway, stop falling for such obvious bait.
>>82821288
Putting out 30-50 stories a season from many different people working in different industries and media in all genres for all audiences about almost anything means that there's a lot of scope for terrible, bad, average, good and excellent stories.
American shows largely operate only in two modes: episodic children's cartoons and episodic adult sitcoms. These shows are kept running for as long as possible.
>>82821335
You're dancing around, obfuscating and complicating things so much that I can't even figure out what you're trying to argue anymore. You're just trying to muddy the waters as much as possible as a means of doing damage control.
>>82821420
These are all "songs." They're figuratively and somewhat literally a joke compared to actual soundtrack music.
>>82821478
But that's objectively wrong.
>>82821534
Anime character designs are much more detailed.
>>82821653
>Anime character designs are much more detailed.
Oh shit, haven't laughed that hard in years. Hahaha
>>82821603
>Also, why are weebs so enormed by detailed pictures with barely any real animation? The pictures look pretty, but the animation is okay. Take an animation class and you'll see that anime really isn't that good.
Animation quality is not synonymous with framerate. Having a lot of frames doesn't mean you have good animation.
Anime has the best animation in the world, and it's easy to see why once you stop being brainwashed by Disney.
>>82821603
>real animation
That ridiculous detail in each frame in accounted movement is still animation you numbnut. There's no such thing as "real" animation.
Does your understanding and acceptance of it revolve almost biblically around smears and expression or something? Nigga you are stupid.
>>82821428
>In Japan, "game" also encompasses visual novels which are focused purely on storytelling.
So you're giving Japan gets points for adapting stories from other mediums. Wow, the West doesn't do that at all.
>Western animation has only a fraction of what anime offers.
There's less Western stuff in general because it's not turned out in sweatshops by interns, it touches those genres just as much as anime and is less often complete garbage.
>Well what do you expect me to say?
That you're sorry for saying anything as stupid as anime being better at everything when the 'humor' violates the Genova Convention.
>I don't know what the size of the porn side is, but it can't be much.
>taking the use of the word porn literally
>not seeing it as a jab at Yaoi and harem shit
Perhaps I've been unclear. Making bad fetish shows does not making anime better or more varied, it means its more willing to make dogshit.
>it doesn't even say that demographics are genres
And yet it tries to pass them off as anime being more varied because someone bothered to label something everyone knows without thinking about it, and the foreign language makes it sound more sophisticated. Kind of like everything you've been saying to suggest anime is more 'varied'.
>>82821709
>Detailed stills is animation
Animufags are so deluded, I swear. How can something that isn't even moving be animation? Are you retarded?
>>82821694
>Animation quality is not synonymous with framerate
It's synonymous with movement. Not detailed stills.
>>82820041
Salaries in anime are pretty low. Entry level positions are especially ridiculous.
>>82821762
http://www.cartoonbrew.com/artist-rights/japans-animation-industry-isnt-just-tough-its-illegally-harsh-110074.html
>“Let’s just be clear: It’s not a ‘tough’ industry… It’s an ‘illegally harsh’ industry. They don’t pay you even remotely minimum wage, they overwork you to the point where people are vomiting at work and having to go to the hospital for medicine. They demand that you come in whenever they realize a deadline isn’t going to be met. That probably means about a month and a half of nonstop work without a single day off. Then you will be allowed to go back to your regular six-day workweeks of 10-hour days. No one talks, or gets lunch together or anything. They just sit and work in complete silence and seem uninterested in changing this.”
>>82821653
>You're dancing around, obfuscating and complicating things so much that I can't even figure out what you're trying to argue anymore. You're just trying to muddy the waters as much as possible as a means of doing damage control.
I'm saying your argument still boils down to it being closer to variety than saying anything definitive about assuring writers write good.
For crying out loud, if it really bothered you that much you can still easily get the general idea from the last two sentences. Don't throw your faults on me.
>>82821736
>Detailed stills is animation
Oh so you didn't even watch the video
Nice to know your attention span isn't even 4 minutes
Go back to /a/
>>82821653
>Putting out 30-50 stories a season from many different people working in different industries and media in all genres for all audiences about almost anything means that there's a lot of scope for terrible, bad, average, good and excellent stories.
That literally says nothing. That doesn't prove that quantity = quality. In fact you're stating that anime has a much larger likelyhood of putting out sub par stories.
>These are all "songs." They're figuratively and somewhat literally a joke compared to actual soundtrack music.
If you think that the humorous lyrics in the songs takes away from the musicality of them, then you have a really poor understanding of music theory, have probably never played an instrument, and are really narrow-minded musically speaking.
>>82821807
Is that really supposed to help the anime side?
I love how it's only the communistic autistic teens from America which keep shoving "Muh anime is superior... I actually need to hide my insecurity issues or I'll commit seppuku."
While most of asian Japan wishes and constantly begs for anime to be banned because it makes them look autistic and retarded.
Japan strives for white-race quality and wishes they were more like America and France animation compared to their autistic yellow skins which can't animate believable motion and endearing lovable non-autistic characters and stories.
>>82821842
>While most of asian Japan wishes and constantly begs for anime to be banned because it makes them look autistic and retarded.
Source: Someone who probably read that on a message board once
>>82821798
I did, the animation was okay. The detailed images didn't improve the animation. Why don't you post a sakuga mad like most retarded animu tards filled with nitpicked excerpts of actual good animation. You guys are a joke.
>>82821807
The detail in the beast's character design is more than the character designs of all the anime examples.
All the ones in that example pretty much have the same head shape (give or take a few curves) with different hairstyles.
>>82821653
>You're dancing around, obfuscating and complicating things so much that I can't even figure out what you're trying to argue anymore. >You're just trying to muddy the waters as much as possible as a means of doing damage control.
AhahaHAHAhahahah oh wow... the pot calling the kettle black, but on this level?! and so blatantly? This is true autism. I'd call you pathetic if you weren't such an ego-centric asshole in denial. Instead I'll just call you cancer.
No wonder /a/ + /b/ have created the most cancerous horse fanbase known to mankind.
>>82821842
What? France is filled with Weeaboo cucks who worship that garbage.
>expects obvious bait thread to die with one or two replies
>Still on page one nine hours later
Hiroshimoot will never surpass the original until this board gets deleted or something
>>82821886
>I did, the animation was okay.
It accounted largely for natural life movement, perspective, shapes, and so on. There's less character movement/choreography than say, Looney Toons, but that doesn't mean it isn't moving largely enough to be considered animation anyway you retard.
>>82821717
>So you're giving Japan gets points for adapting stories from other mediums. Wow, the West doesn't do that at all.
Anime does it far, far more.
>There's less Western stuff in general because it's not turned out in sweatshops by interns
American shows are almost all animated in Korea, and sometimes other Asian countries. Anime production is still mostly done in Japan. Even in-betweening is still done in Japan.
"Interns" don't animate anime. The anime version of an intern is an in-between animator, and they just fill in what the key animators have made. Once they get good enough they can take on key animation responsibilities.
>it touches those genres just as much as anime and is less often complete garbage.
No, Western animation doesn't encompass all the same genres. Nor does it encompass them to the same degree and in the same way. We could say that Futurama for example is loosely speaking scifi, but that doesn't mean it's the same thing as Planetes.
>That you're sorry for saying anything as stupid as anime being better at everything when the 'humor' violates the Genova Convention.
Again, humor is very subjective.
>Perhaps I've been unclear. Making bad fetish shows does not making anime better or more varied, it means its more willing to make dogshit.
Those shows also contribute to making anime more varied. Whether or not you personally like them is irrelevant. You're also vastly overestimating how much of those shows get made. Out of all the shows I'm watching this season (23 or so), only two have "fanservice" to speak of.
>And yet it tries to pass them off as anime being more varied
But they do make anime more varied.
> Kind of like everything you've been saying to suggest anime is more 'varied'.
It absolutely is more varied. That's just a fact.
>>82821914
France is actually competent at emulating that weeaboo garbage. Hence Wakfu and Oban Star Racers.
If anything Japan stole from France.
Do they even teach The 12 Principles of Animation in the japanese animation industry?
>>82821943
>but that doesn't mean it isn't moving largely enough to be considered animation anyway you retard.
No shit, it's moving? What's your point? I said it's not impressive, not that there's 0 motion. What kind of retarded retort is that?
>>82814041
Cartoons:
Cool character and variety of stories and characters of all kinds.
Weeb-cartoons:
Limited types of characters for fap-content purpose aimed at retards.
Here. I always hated anime with all my heart and i will continue to hate it.
>>82821950
>Anime production is still mostly done in Japan. Even in-betweening is still done in Japan.
No, it's not lol. WTF?
http://variety.com/2012/digital/news/japanese-companies-outsourcing-anime-1118049388/
*Anime film>Great cartoons = Great TV Anime> Average TV anime> Average cartoon
*Doesn't apply to all films, mainly the anime films that don't intend to sell merch so they focus on a good story based around real world issues. See "Coloful".
We can keep arguing which is better but you guys just have to face the facts. If it isn't a movie, cartoons are horrible shits. While in anime seasonal anime and movie animation can both have a decent chance to be very good. You can't just compare. I mean there are actually people that like Wonder Over Yonder or shows in the same category.
>>82821736
>It's synonymous with movement. Not detailed stills.
It's a myth that anime consists of nothing but stills. If this is your level of knowledge about anim, maybe you shouldn't be trying to debate it.
Or do you perhaps think this is nothing but still images:
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/17747/
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/22678
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/11966/
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/10753/
>>82822020
>Sakuga
Fucking called it. You fags are so predictable.
>>82821807
what are you implying?
this picture just shows some weeb characters looking the same compared to western wariety of shapes and characters.
>muh d-detailed :(
who cares about the amount of details on lolis tits if the character is shitty and generic waifubait and it's anime?
Get out.
>>82821971
yeah and they actually use them way more often than western animation.
>>82821762
>Work part time in a website
>Make more money than an animator per year on that thing alone
Holy shit.
>>82822047
>yeah and they actually use them way more often than western animation.
I remember when I was 14 too.
>>82822013
Bet you I can name just as many good cartoons as you can animes.
Tell me what you define as good, then rattle off a few.
>>82822047
Can you stop lying for 1 puny minute you stubborn evil autistic shit? God you're scum.
>>82821979
From the first post
>Detailed stills is animation
You're switching back and forth, and decided to make that reply immediately after I put that scene as the subject.
Instead of asking what kind of responses people give you maybe you should ask yourself why you're giving the stupid questions asking for one.
Even ignoring that though you're still not giving any good reason whatsoever as to why it's simply "okay" so good job not even being able to do that much.
>>82822009
>*Anime film>Great cartoons = Great TV Anime> Average TV anime> Average cartoon
Hmm, let's see:
Cartoons of all types>>>>Dog Shit>>>Cancer>> Anime.
Seems about right.
>>82822066
Try to name a few and let it be from the year 2015. It must at least have animation in any episode that is comparable to this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJHFulXbq40
>>82821781
It's the variety that gives rise to good writing.
>>82821803
Do you expect me to individually review every single anime ever made or every writer who has ever contributed to anime? Or what?
>If you think that the humorous lyrics in the songs takes away from the musicality of them, then you have a really poor understanding of music theory, have probably never played an instrument, and are really narrow-minded musically speaking.
If you think those "songs" are comparable to actual, serious soundtrack music then you have a really poor understanding of music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_z8BtnROIo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TawN_4icG_g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YVbd-lS2X4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmeNa_BiZb4
>>82821827
Yes. Obviously.
>>82821842
I'm not a communist or a teenager or American, nor do I have any insecurities regarding this topic.
>While most of asian Japan wishes and constantly begs for anime to be banned because it makes them look autistic and retarded.
The rest of Asia has nothing to do with anime.
>Japan strives for white-race quality and wishes they were more like America and France animation compared to their autistic yellow skins which can't animate believable motion and endearing lovable non-autistic characters and stories.
Do you have a diagnosed mental illness?
>>82822085
>You're switching back and forth,
Shut da fug up. Animu is shit, The End.
>>82819099
See
>>82819173
King of the hill was relatively Slice of Life, about a down-to-earth, slightly tightassed Texan guy and his family.
It was an "adult" cartoon. Not in that it ever got particularly deep, but it wasn't all wacky and colorful and whatever. It was a cartoon grown men and women who would otherwise think cartoons are for kids were fine with sitting down and watching after dinner, and that's what kept it alive for 13 seasons.
>ITT: Whole thread arguing with a die hard weeaboo
You should've all stopped arguing with him when he essentially made the same response several times and left off on one argument at "durr i dun get what ur saying even though u said it this whole discussion"
>>82822102
>Do you have a diagnosed mental illness?
Do you?
>>82822102
>Tokyo Ghoul
Who's falling for this bait?
Now I know where bronies get their hypocrism and stupidity from.
>>82820141
Man, I miss old anime backgrounds. They used to be so pretty and fit so nicely with the characters. Today almost everything has this overly sleek photoshopped look to it. Don't know exactly how to explain it, like it's competently made but trying hard not to look like a drawing, with lots of stretched textures, copy pasted elements, filters, over saturated colors and such, and the result is really ugly. Makes even shows with a huge budget look bad.
>>82822013
>anime seasonal anime
I don't get how someone can watch the average (or even praised) seasonal anime for any reason other than to laugh at it. Having the same 2kewl4u characters and treating exaggerated reactions as the height of comedy is ridiculous. I'm not going to pretend that western animation isn't producing bad material as well but it's not like the average anime is worth watching
>>82822097
More nitpicked Key Animation/moneyshots. Please stop lying, we all know the rest of the show isn't animated like this minus a few important scenes.
>>82822139
You don't to insult /co/ anon. They are doing a pretty good job of doing that themselves.
>>82822102
>It's the variety that gives rise to good writing
And I detailed in several ways in my post why the hell that simply isn't true and in some cases completely irrelevant.
Come on, dude.
>>82822151
Who said the whole anime is animated like that? I even said that you only need just one moment in any episode in 2015 that's comparable to that.
>>82822175
Anime is an autism magnet. Don't waste your breath.
>>82822096
Oooh someone is mad. Comics are bad. There's no canon, it's all just fanfictions that get movies and Shows. It's Dragon Ball GT the medium.
>>82821807
>its an every anime character look like the same episode
>again
>>82822059
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_basic_principles_of_animation
-Squash and Stretch
-Anticipation
-Staging
-Straight Ahead Action and Pose to Pose
-Follow Through and Overlapping Action
-Slow In and Slow Out
-Arc
-Secondary Action
-Timing
-Exaggeration
-Solid drawing
-Appeal
see? all of those are commonly used in anime, while most western stuff avoids it, mostly because of vectored animation and budget don't work well with it.
Also most people in this threads are mixing their rules completely, silhouettes were never an animation thing for instance.
>>82822149
Just like the average cartoon but you guys still watch it. Hell, you guys even praise it while /a/ generally just shit on every seasonal anime they can find.
>>82822195I like anime, cartoons, and the vidya. All three are avid hobbies for me. What does this make me.
>>82821898
Do you even know what "detail" means?
>>82821910
>AhahaHAHAhahahah oh wow... the pot calling the kettle black, but on this level?! and so blatantly?
How am I doing that?
>This is true autism.
How am I autistic?
>I'd call you pathetic if you weren't such an ego-centric asshole in denial.
How am I an egocentric asshole in denial? What am I in denial of?
>No wonder /a/ + /b/ have created the most cancerous horse fanbase known to mankind.
What do bronies have to do with this?
>>82821971
I doubt those have been relevant since the 50s or 60s or so. Of course they teach some of the same things, but anime is very far removed from how Disney preferred to animate things.
>>82821993
>Cool character and variety of stories and characters of all kinds.
This describes anime, not American shows.
>Weeb-cartoons:
Anime by definition cannot be weeb.
>Limited types of characters for fap-content purpose aimed at retards.
This is completely made up.
>>82822006
>No, it's not lol.
Yes it is. Look at the credits on ANN.
>http://variety.com/2012/digital/news/japanese-companies-outsourcing-anime-1118049388/
I never said the anime industry does NO outsourcing.
Ninja Hattori is an outlier and not even remotely representative of how things normally work.
Jonathan Clements' claim is based on someone in Japan claiming, without any evidence, that 1/3 of all the animation production is done in China. Which doesn't make any sense at all.
>>82821267
I do agree that it isnt better than west.
>>82822139
>Now I know where bronies get their hypocrism and stupidity from.
>>82822189
So, in your world. 2 minutes out 24 minute animated work being super well animated and the rest of the show looking flat. Is a good production policy and qualify's as good animation? Even when it's inconsistent as hell and doesn't match with the rest of the show?
>>82822216
Even a bigger autist.
>>82822236
I consider this a victory
>>82822201
I don't read MAhvel DeeCee. So, that provocation won't work on me.
>>82822097
Amazing world of Gumball.
Futurama.
Pretty much every superhero drama.
Over the garden wall.
Manga > Anime
>>82822195
>Anime is an autism magnet. Don't waste your breath.
Agree. I personally never met an anime fan who wasnt an autist. If you deal with somebody with kawai-desu-ne avatar...just avoid him.
>>82822205
Listing the principles =/= to proving if it was used. Why are you so dumb?
>>82821950
>Anime does it far, far more.
Is that why most Disney films are based on fairy tales and why capeshit is so big? Or are you saying the East is retarded and has a harder time coming up with original ideas?
>American shows are almost all animated in Korea
With the designs, voice acting, directing and writing done in America, and movies being almost entirely done in-house.
>The anime version of an intern is an in-between animator, and they just fill in what the key animators have made.
Who tend to be freelancers.
>No, Western animation doesn't encompass all the same genres.
Oh no, what will the West do without atrocious harem shit?
>Nor does it encompass them to the same degree
Yes, they do. Your base argument comes down to 'anime puts out more shit and is more autistic about labelling them, and is therefore better', when that says zero about the quality of the work.
>We could say that Futurama for example is loosely speaking scifi
Are you honestly implying it isn't?
>but that doesn't mean it's the same thing as Planetes.
Nor does it change the fact they are both sci fi. Also, kudos to the animation team for coming up with an original concept and not ripping of a manga.
>Again, humor is very subjective.
>still perpetrating this farce
Lose with some grace, why don't you.
NOTE: Fascinating how you're all too happy to declare anime having better animation, designs, sound, writing, etc, but whenever humor is brought up 'it's all opinion man'.
>Those shows also contribute to making anime more varied.
Having a lot of trash just means you have a lot of trash. If they positively contribute with good stories or animation they're cancer, not a positive.
>Whether or not you personally like them is irrelevant.
What's relevant is the fact they're trash and don't elevate the genre.
>You're also vastly overestimating how much of those shows get made.
So most of this variety is just a couple bad niche shows, kind of like the West?
>anime is more varied
Prove it
>>82822218
>Yes it is. Look at the credits on ANN.
You mean the ones filled with Corean names? Like Dr. Movie?
>>82822231
You never actually seen OPM have you? OPM itself is like a whole experimental shit. But it generally have a huge production value. Which shows that they can do it if they actually care. The rest of the show is not flat.
And again I don't care either way. Just show a cartoon that can manage that or even just well animated as OPM or just better.
>>82822250
Oh. Then I hope you're referring to SU or OtGW when you say toons are better. Because if you aren't then you're not just objectively wrong, you're factually autistic.
>>82822205
>>82822218
Can we get him banned? for shitposting and being so stubbornly in denial and dismissive?
I don't think I've ever heard an /a/utist ever say in his life "I'm sorry, I'm an idiot. I humbly apologize. Sorry for wasting your time with my bullshit."
>>82822009
The crossdressing cat is right
>>82822218
>I never said the anime industry does NO outsourcing.
You said the inbetweening is exclusively done in Japan.
>>82822306
>I hope you're referring to SU
>Likes SU
>Animu Reaction image
And, you call someone else an autist?
>>82822306
>SU
>OTGW
>Either having more than one canon or primarily even being a comic
If he's factually autistic this makes you factually cancer that needs to be executed
>>82822253
This is a lie. I've watched every episode of Gumball and none of it is as well animated.
Futurama I don't know because I don't watch it.
There's no such thing as a superhero drama cartoon or you mean like Spiderman and avengers shit or even the lego shit which you are still wrong.
Over the garden wall is an atmospheric show but isn't that great in the animation department.
>>82822292
>The rest of the show is not flat.
Please stop lying.
>>82822009
>Great cartoons = Great TV Anime
No, I don't think Tom & Jerry is quite equivalent to, say, Serial Experiments Lain, Madoka, Tatami Galaxy, Aoi Hana, Steins;Gate or Shouwa Genroku or whatever.
>>82822032
Uh... what?
>>82822038
>weeb characters
By definition they cannot be.
>looking the same
They don't, though.
>who cares about the amount of details on lolis tits if the character is shitty and generic waifubait and it's anime?
"Generic" is a meaningless word and thus not valid criticism, and waifubait does not exist. There also are no lolis in those pictures, nor is there any particular emphasis on breasts.
And I was talking about detail so that's what I was comparing.
>>82822116
I'm not a weeaboo.
>left off on one argument at "durr i dun get what ur saying even though u said it this whole discussion"
Like I said, he was muddying the waters to the point where I couldn't even follow what he was saying anymore.
>>82822129
>I didn't like Tokyo Ghoul, therefore the soundtrack can't be good!
Great logic.
>>82822143
The quality of background art in modern TV anime is extremely high, much higher than it ever has been in the past.
>>82822149
There is no "average anime," and if you people want "deep" and "serious" shows then why don't you ever watch shows like Joker Game and Shouwa Genroku?
>>82822175
But it is true.
>>82822204
They don't all look the same.
WHY DO YOU GUYS KEEP HAVING EAST VS WEST THREADS?
ARE YOU THAT INSECURE?
YEAH IT SUCKS THAT ANIMATION ISN'T TAKEN AS SERIOUSLY HERE AS IT IS IN JAPAN, BUT ARUGING ABOUT IT ON HERE AD-INFINITUM IS BORING AND DOES NOTHING FOR NO ONE.
>>82822280
"If they don't positively contribute with good stories or animation they're cancer, not a positive."
>>82821478
Japan still makes better porn than we do
>>82822346
I love Futurama but can confirm there is nothing fantastic about its animation at all.
It's industry standard if anything.
>>82821778
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFZGdOWlvN4
>>82822218
>AhahaHAHAhahahah oh wow... the pot calling the kettle black, but on this level?! and so blatantly?
> -How am I doing that?
>This is true autism.
> -How am I autistic?
>I'd call you pathetic if you weren't such an ego-centric asshole in denial.
> -How am I an egocentric asshole in denial? What am I in denial of?
LOOK AT THIS BULLSHIT, /co/. Weeaboos are a stubborn sons of a bitches, aren't they? He won't even say a little "sorry" out of common courtesy and decency.
>>82822357
There is the sakuga thing that you hate in every episode. And the normal interactions are generally animated well for an anime at least. Not what I call flat. Let me help.
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post?page=1&tags=one-punch_man
>>82822336
>>82822343
>Doesn't like SU
Into the trash
>>82822360
Who ever said Tom and Jerry was great? It's good, fun to watch, but there was never anything in Tom and Jerry that made me say "this is a masterpiece".
>>82822367
Hypocritical scum of the earth.
/a/utists are SCUM.
>>82822387
Oh yes, I love hearing women shriek like they're a dog being beaten by a stick. So sexy.
Besides Ghost Stories and Trigun, which dubs are much better than the subs?
>>82822406
This post makes me want to side with the animu side. SU is fucking trash. Jesus Christ.
>>82822280
Anime adapts from manga, light novels, visual novels, general games, and novels, and it adapts a lot. Most shows in any given season are adaptations.
>Or are you saying the East is retarded and has a harder time coming up with original ideas?
How is an idea not original just because it was dreamed up by a manga author rather than a freelance writer?
>With the designs, voice acting, directing and writing done in America, and movies being almost entirely done in-house.
The point is that you can't complain about "sweatshops" and "interns" when Americans don't even do the animation production themselves and outsource it to cheaper countries.
>Who tend to be freelancers.
Some are.
>Oh no, what will the West do without atrocious harem shit?
I wasn't talking about just genres that are specific to anime.
>Yes, they do.
Not even remotely true. You don't seem to have any idea how much anime there is and how many different genres, topics, themes and styles they cover and how badly American/Western animation pales in comparison. Even a niche topic like airsoft has had at least three anime made about it.
>Are you honestly implying it isn't?
I haven't watched it much but it seems like a comedy with superficial scifi trappings.
>Nor does it change the fact they are both sci fi.
But this doesn't mean anything. Futurama is a sitcom type of show, Planetes is a dramatic hard science fiction show. They're totally different things despite nominally being both "scifi."
>still perpetrating this farce
How is it a farce?
>NOTE: Fascinating how you're all too happy to declare anime having better animation, designs, sound, writing, etc, but whenever humor is brought up 'it's all opinion man'.
Humor simply happens to be very subjective.
>Having a lot of trash just means you have a lot of trash.
Anime is a free-for-all that includes just about everything and the kitchen sink, just like cinema. Some of it is bad, some of it isn't.
>>82822473I'm ON the animu side.
>>82822449
Who cares?
>>82822449
Keit-Ai
Ghost Slide
>>82822102
>If you think those "songs" are comparable to actual, serious soundtrack music then you have a really poor understanding of music.
First off. I had to go find the songs you linked because they're not available in my country.
Second: they aren't comparable. But not because one is better than the other.
They're not comparable because they're completely different styles of music.
The pieces you linked are Soundtracks.
The pieces I linked are Big Band, Show tune, and Swing.
Each is elaborate in it's own merit. But for you to put Family Guy's music down simply because it's comical is really stupid.
That's like saying Broadway musicals aren't good music, or musically adequate just because they convey different messages.
And if you do think that, then I still doubt your musical understanding.
Maybe you don't understand that a song doesn't have to be a drawn out orchestral piece
with intense strings to be sophisticated musically.
The East has Noa Izumi.
Therefore the East is superior. End of story.
>>82818912
That show Making Fiends that was on Nicktoons for 2 seconds started as a webcomic
>>82822360
>Like I said, he was muddying the waters to the point where I couldn't even follow what he was saying anymore.
If you can't make out the general gist of what I was saying when any functional human being should be able to decipher:
>Those sources draw from all sorts of requirements with extremely fluctuating results.
and
>The internal competition helps, but it is not a defining detail, which is what your part of the argument needs.
after numerous examples proving both, then I hate to break the news, but that's your retarded error, and nobody else's.
>But it is true
And I can easily say "no it's false" and reset the argument back to a neutral point, or better yet, to the last point of contention that was made with actual detail. Which just so happened to be the exact post that explained why your logic of "variety breeds quality" does not hold.
It's really clear you stopped wanting to try a while ago. At least be polite and forward about it next time so you don't have to waste either of your nor your conversation partner's time.
>>82822487
Can
You
Stop
Typing
Like
This
Are you autistic or just an idiot?
>>82817773
Underrated post right here.
>>82822346
Gumball gets credit for the sheer amount of art styles the show uses, and blending them together cohesively.
![(G_P) Patlabor TV 22(x264 1080p)(A8757585).mkv_snapshot_20.09_[2016.05.16_05.20.26].png](https://i.imgur.com/1nhjITY.jpg "(G P) Patlabor TV 22(x264 1080p)(A8757585).mkv snapshot 20.09 [2016.05.16 05.20.26]")
>>82822525
Also Kanuka, don't forget Kanuka.
>>82822406
>Doesn't like SU
Second post you quoted, I never said that
Idiot
>>82822280
>Is that why most Disney films are based on fairy tales and why capeshit is so big? Or are you saying the East is retarded and has a harder time coming up with original ideas?
Japan does 1:1 adaptations. Capeshit isn't 1:1 they have alot more artistic license and they don't for example create massive filler arcs because they've caught up to the source material. In America, if we did a 1:1 we wouldn't have fillers because we'd take seasonal breaks. Nips are too competitive with time slots so you can't even take a breather to ensure quality. In short: Anime adaptations suck.
>>82822280
>What's relevant is the fact they're trash and don't elevate the genre.
Some of them are trash, some of them aren't. And anime isn't a genre.
>Prove it
Anime encompasses probably every genre there is and includes some genres that don't exist or don't really exist in Western media. Anime covers a huge variety of topics, themes and styles and caters to all audiences, even some very specific ones like fujoshi. Anime also outputs a huge amount of shows and movies.
We can't say the same about Western animation. Therefore anime is more varied.
>>82822281
No.
>>82822307
How have I shitposted? How am I in denial or dismissive? Also that first post isn't even mine.
>>82822323
No, I didn't.
>>82822395
So you have no answer to any of those questions. Ok.
>>82822533
>If you can't make out the general gist of what blah blah
No, I still have no idea what you're talking about.
>And I can easily say "no it's false"
But you're wrong.
>>82822546
I don't type like that. Did you mean to respond to someone else?
>>82822602
Of course not! How could I forget Kanuka?
>>82822111
So are cartoons
>>82822632
I swear to Trump if this retard denies something one more time I'm going to IP hack him and dox his exact geo-location coordinates. This guy is worse than a politician.
>>82822139
But it was /co/ who created it
>>82822648
>>82822602
Honestly all the characters in Patlabor are great. I don't know how that could be debated.
>This thread
>Again
These threads never fail to prove just how retarded anyone willing to argue about this is. Both sides are horribly fucking autistic.
>>82822625
>filler
>Nips are too competitive with time slots so you can't even take a breather to ensure quality.
You're talking about daytime anime here (and even then not all daytime anime).
>In short: Anime adaptations suck.
Some of them do, some of them don't.
>>82822677
Why do you think I'm not allowed to "deny" things? Do you think everyone should just accept anything you say without question?
>>82822632
>No.
Yes
If you want to do one line rebuttals. Then I'm game too
>>82822632
>No, I didn't.
You:
>Even in-betweening is still done in Japan.
>>82822006
Inbetweening is increasingly done in other countries.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703819904574551834260925714
You can keep saying no and I'll keep posting links.
>>82822691
No, it was the /a/ side of /co/ who created it.
Then /b/, then reddit and many other cancerous places.
>>82822701
Yeah we really should be talking about how Patlabor is better than every cartoon and anime besides Patlabor.
Also how Noa is best girl.
>>82822747
Have you seen Next Generation? I'm still watching the TV anime, but that show has piqued my interest.
>>82822721
>You're talking about daytime anime here (and even then not all daytime anime).
I don't need all, I just need most. What daytime anime is not a 1:1. Go ahead, I'll wait.
>>82822721
>Some of them do, some of them don't.
Name a good one.
>>82822632
One last chance you little shit. Give us an apology for your entire bullshit and maybe I won't dox you.
>>82822662
Anime is worst. :D
>>82822440
/a/ isnt even this bad. They know most of the anime is shit
>>82822747
You mean ALPHONSE best girl right?
>>82822787
not him but it's in my backlog since I'm trying to watch everything Patlabor over the summer
90's cartoons and anime were better.
>>82822825
Anime was never good.
>>82822446
I am talking about H-manga or doujins not 3DPD shit
>>82822525
This.
>>82822726
You said:
>You mean the ones filled with Corean names? Like Dr. Movie?
And I said "no" because I did not mean that. If you look at the credits for anime shows you can see Japanese in-betweeners credited and Japanese companies credited with in-betweening.
>Even in-betweening is still done in Japan.
It is. See above.
>Inbetweening is increasingly done in other countries.
I know in-betweening is done outside Japan. Nobody said it isn't.
That article is clueless alarmism, just like that Suspended Animation documentary that was made around the same time. They in fact sound suspiciously similar to each other.
>>82822790
Infinitely long shounen shows make up a very, very small portion of TV anime. I don't even watch them.
>Name a good one.
Steins;Gate, Haruhi, Tatami Galaxy, Hidamari Sketch.
Most TV anime is adaptations. You are out of your mind if you think there isn't even a single good one.
>>82822801
What am I supposed to apologize for?
>>82822816
Well then I guess that just goes to show that /a/ doesn't know or care anything about anime.
>>82822836
It's been good since at least the 70s.
>>82822844
>3DPD shit
Go back /a/ to please.
>>82822787
No I haven't, like the other guy it's in my backlog.
>>82822632
>No, I still have no idea what you're talking about.
I'll make this easy for you:
The proof you're using for variety breeding quality in anime is that it draws from all sorts of sources.
This STILL doesn't say anything about the writing being good, instead of variable, something you have not been able to do since the beginning of the conversation. Those sources anime borrow from (manga, VNs, vidya, etc.) have significantly different production processes and priorities. Like I said for one example, games are incomparably more likely to be focused on gameplay than writing. Manga has Attack on Titan and Naruto as some of its most popular entries, and if we were following your linear logic of "variety breeding quality" then this sort of event would never have come to light after decades of anime existing.
Saying this process breeds an excellence in writing, despite all the proof saying otherwise to your faulty logic, is admitting to a delusional standpoint. There is no objective, undeniable, evidence pinpointing what you're saying. Merely correlations at best.
It's impossible to make this any more significantly well put. If you still don't get what I'm saying then put a loaded magnum to your tongue and pull the trigger.
>>82822869
>Steins;Gate, Haruhi
That's not daytime anime. I asked you to list good daytime anime. Steins;Gate is shit, but Haruhi is even worst.
>>82822889
Give it up man, he didn't even get the fruit salad analogy here: >>82821288
>>82822869
>>82822911
>>82822889
>>82822844
>>82822836
oh wow, what are you guys still arguing for?
I thought we already came to a conclusion?Patlabor>>>>>>Whatever you like that isn't Patlabor
>>82822869
>That article is clueless alarmism, just like that Suspended Animation documentary that was made around the same time. They in fact sound suspiciously similar to each other.
YOu're an idiot. Looking at how bad the Japanese economy is and how bad the wages for an animator are. How can you sit here and tell me that all the animators complaining about wages and outsourcing is alarmism?
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2009/03/04/national/future-of-anime-industry-in-doubt/#.VznsXpErKUk
>With an estimated 90 percent of in-betweens being outsourced overseas — a result of the industry trying to squeeze out more content than it can from domestic hands — there are also concerns that opportunities to nurture future generations of quality animators are being lost.
>>82822836
It never was. Sure it had good stuff always but overall it never was good.
>>82822367
>ARE YOU THAT INSECURE?
Where do you think we are?
>>82822869
I'll finally tell you why asian animation is GARBAGE. Come.https://us19.chatzy.com/73329673414467
>>82822701
I would follow Captain Gotou into the depths of hell.
>>82822989
That's my opinion too. It was a poor mans Disney, Tezuka was trying to make the Japanese Disney but Japan is too backwards.
>>82823005
He'd probably leave you there and take an express elevator to heaven.
>>82822966
I like how every time he was even so much as pointed to another direction in the argument in this thread, no matter how insignificant or even logical, he resorted to something else entirely instead of confronting the points directly like a mentally adjusted human being
>>82822487
>Anime adapts from manga, light novels, visual novels, general games, and novels, and it adapts a lot.
So does the West.
>How is an idea not original just because it was dreamed up by a manga author rather than a freelance writer?
Because it wasn't their idea dumbass. Not only does the West adapt stories (which apparently makes an inherent difference to quality), they also come up with more original ideas and change the source more instead of shamelessly copypasting manga stills.
>when Americans don't even do the animation production themselves
For shows, with many of the more important bits (writing, directing) being down in 'Murica.
>Some are.
At a much higher rate than in the West.
>I wasn't talking about just genres that are specific to anime.
Oh, so you were referring to the ones the West does just as well.
>You don't seem to have any idea how much anime there is
You don't seem to understand the difference between quantity and quality and that labelling shit people already understand doesn't make it deep.
>how many different genres
Name one anime covers the West doesn't that isn't trash.
>topics, themes
'Mecha' is not a literary theme. Neither is 'magic girls'. They're just how the show goes about action or moe shit.
>and styles they cover and how badly American/Western animation pales in comparison.
Like the Lego and Peanuts movies' animation? Do tell, how many animes have fun musical numbers and humor that don't make the audience want to commit seppuku?
>Even a niche topic like airsoft has had at least three anime made about it.
So 'representation' makes it not crap? You're starting to sound like an SJW that only cares about pandering instead of actual quality.
>>82822990
A Patlabor discussion thread?
>>82822911
>haruhi is the worst
Nah fuck you
>>82822487
>I haven't watched it much
Then how the fuck would you know what you're talking about? Do you enjoy speaking in ignorance (like you accuse others of)?
>But this doesn't mean anything.
Oh, so just including a genre doesn't mean anything then? Then how the fuck is anime more varied?
>Futurama is a sitcom type of show, Planetes is a dramatic hard science fiction show
>dramatic
>implying actual literary merit
>based off a manga
My sides.
>They're totally different things despite nominally being both "scifi."
Then why does being sci fi (or any other genre) matter if it says nothing about what a given show actually accomplishes?
>How is it a farce?
Because anime 'humor' is fucking garbage.
>Humor simply happens to be very subjective.
So does animation, writing, designs, and soundtrack. Why are you declaring those to be objectively better in anime yet excluding humor? Is it because it's inconvenient for your argument?
>Anime is a free-for-all
So is Western animation. The fact it predominately focuses on children's comdy cartoons and sitcoms is no different than anime's focus on moe shit and bad manga adaptations.
>Some of it is bad
Almost all of it is, including entire genres.
>>82823025
>like a mentally adjusted human being
In otherwords, he's an anime fan? Why is this surprising. Anime has one of the most autistic fandoms ever, thank God it's shrinking in the west. The next big market is China, let the chinks have it. Good riddance.
>>82823043
Get sum taste. Kyoanus is a shitty shitty studio.
>>82823034
I bet you can't even name one cartoon that's better than Patlabor.
>>82822889
>This STILL doesn't say anything about the writing being good
I'm not going to review every anime ever made. I am talking about the big picture and what factors affect the writing quality of anime.
>Those sources anime borrow from (manga, VNs, vidya, etc.) have significantly different production processes and priorities. Like I said for one example, games are incomparably more likely to be focused on gameplay than writing.
Conventional games make up a small minority of anime adaptations. All the other media I listed are focused on storytelling.
>Manga has Attack on Titan and Naruto as some of its most popular entries, and if we were following your linear logic of "variety breeding quality" then this sort of event would never have come to light after decades of anime existing.
Huh? What "event"?
>Saying this process breeds an excellence in writing, despite all the proof saying otherwise
What proof?
>>82822911
Space Brothers, Sailor Moon, Kyoukai no Rinne and Kimagure Orange Road then.
I watch hardly any daytime anime except older stuff. Daytime anime has become much less relevant since the turn of the millennium.
>Steins;Gate is shit, but Haruhi is even worst.
Uh huh.
>>82823006
But atleast we still get some good stuff like this season had some good stuff but not masterpieces.
>>82823025
Its like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how thought out your moves are, the pigeon is just gonna knock the pieces over, crap on the board, and fly back to its flock to claim victory.
>>82823052
same goes for you
>>82823080
>>82823080
How many anime like Patlabor have been made in the last 5 years?
>>82822976
Look at the second paragraph and tell me this isn't clueless alarmism:
>Japan's animation industry is struggling. Anime workers are unhappy, toiling long hours at low pay. Sales have been declining. On top of that, there is fast-growing competition from across Asia. Studios in China and South Korea now churn out high-quality anime-style programs, helped by cheaper labor and, in some cases, government subsidies.
Yeah China and Korea are going to take the animation world by storm.
This is completely clueless:
>A shrinking population of children in Japan has discouraged toy makers, television networks and other traditional sponsors from funding new programs. That has driven many anime studios—most of which are small shops—toward making animated soft porn and violent movies targeted at adult audiences.
It assumes that anime is just for children and a decline in children therefore means a decline in anime. Not only is that not true, but the number of shows being produced has risen dramatically since the 90s. It's also assumed that anime studios act independently, when in fact they're very often if not most of the time contracted by other companies.
"Animated soft porn and violent movies" seems to be a reference to 80s and early 90s OVAs which were hardly relevant in 2009 let alone today.
The author has no idea.
>>82823060
Ialways liked animebut acting like this any time, especially past high school, is just terrible.
Some people I know actually berate me for going to /co/ instead of /a/ but honest to God I've given /a/ as many chances as I could. /co/ may be bad but /a/ is an undeniable brand of autism. Even /v/ is less of a cancerous board than that embarrassing accumulation of aspergers and I gave up on that board just about as equally
>>82823087
I HEARD SOMEONE SAY SPACE BROTHERS.
>>82817371
I also live in Texas. The show is scary accurate and hilarious. I wonder how people around the country like it. There's a Japanese dub for God's sake. Beavis and Butthead is accurate to Texas/New Mexico living.
>>82823094
There's always going to be good stuff. I'm not that big of a faggot to dismiss anime outright, but I don't consider myself a fan anymore. I just watch some "good" shows and move on.
>>82823126
it made me a texaboo
>>82822632
>And anime isn't a genre
Medium then, whatever.
>Anime encompasses probably
>probably
You're not filling me with confidence.
>includes some genres that don't exist or don't really exist in Western media.
Which are either fetish shows or a broader genre like action with a specific gimmick like mecha, which still makes it action.
>Anime covers a huge variety of topics, themes and styles
So does the West.
>Anime also outputs a huge amount of shows and movies.
Which tend to have a higher percentage of garbage.
>Therefore anime is more varied.
No, just more autistically labelled, unless you're claiming not wasting time with harem is a bad thing.
>>82823060
So does most of the cartoons. But both have shit fanbases with doesnt matter anyway.
>>82822114
King of The Hill get pretty real and deep at times.
>>82823102
I'm sorry but that isn't an answer to my question.
>>82823108
First of all, the amount of anime produced peaked in 2006. It was 300 plus shows, it's not growing anymore. Second, anime is for kids hon. Only adults who watch anime are otaku. If you're in your 20's and watch anime openly you're an otaku and adult animation is generally targeting aniota. Most adult animation that anime is famous for is from the 80's OVa boom and then later Shinya anime took over that.
>>82823076
I mean i didnt like phantom world either but they still make pretty good stuff.
>>82822360
>kawaii! kawaii! wow someone sure is a WEE-A-BOO *horns*
>>82823112
>. Even /v/ is less
I dunno about that. Anime fans are scum, though. Can't stand them.
>>82822473
SU is fantastic. Stop being so contrarian.
>>82823152
>So does most of the cartoons. But both have shit fanbases with doesnt matter anyway.
Keep telling yourself that. Anime has by far the worst fandom outside of bronies. Completely autistic filled with man babies. People like Madthad and Mr Anime are fucking scum.
Such a shame, /co/ is so terrified of defeat, that they can't even admit when they've lost.
>>82823112
Well i am crossboarder from /a/ but this guy has try to say thing in /a/ and even they didnt believe that bullshit
>>82823180
What do you call Adults that watch cartoons openly?
>>82823226
http://mellowbunny.tumblr.com/post/30428404155/man-has-sex-with-anime-body-pillow-what-the
>>82823246
Why are anime autists such scum?
>>82823251
Manchild.
>>82823253
Jesus, my eyes.
>>82823180
But what if i am not open about it? I hide power level.
>>82823146
There are good reasons to be Texaboo. BBQ, wholesome family values, tons of Hank Hills roaming the state, amazing Mexican food and snacks, Houston Hip Hop, lean, Tejano music, beautiful women, Vietnamese food (Pho), Austin, low property values, either spread out towns like Fort Worth or centralized towns like Dallas and Denton, the Alamo, and it's super easy to get away with minor crimes here.
>>82823279
What was that? I thought heard the death throes of a hideous beast as it clawed for its last breath. Must've just been my imagination.
>>82823087
Let's discuss some more.
>>82823303
If people find out about it, you'll still get shit. It's not cool to watch anime in your 20's. That Otacool bullshit that people like Dannychoo try to sell to westerners is a sham.
>>82823325
Scum.
>>82823226
Sure i do agree but atleast i try to hide my powerlevel
>>82823087
>All the other media I listed are focused on storytelling.
To which we loop back to the point of:
>Mangaka are not inherently equivalent with good writers, they are just people who need to get their work out there, and editors among others are there to smoothen things out; this can equate to polishing a rock or polishing a turd. The same more or less applies to original anime writers
Just replace "mangaka" with pretty much most if not all of your other examples and that's what your variety boils down to, an ambiguous mix of either good or bad, no assurance of either.
>Huh? What "event"?
Naruto and AoT being popular.
I'm not saying you have to review every anime ever made, I never once even implied it. I'm saying the only thing you're doing is proving my point from the beginning, which was that this entire thing is stupid, exactly because of how ambiguous it is.
Not once this whole conversation did you provide any one defining detail about the anime industry in making sure it had good writers, other than the logic it has competition. Which is retarded because anime was never on a perfectly straight path upwards with every aspect, even in the general "big picture" of things ever since its conception to now.
I could at least agree with you on the VA point, again, because of how they have schools and competitions designed through and through to make it their statement to assure those VAs know perfectly well what they're doing. Nothing like that even remotely exists for writing improvement.
And the more you dawdle on being unable to pinpoint completely, precise evidence for your point, the more you're only attributing to mine. So if you're not doing it in the next post then I consider this waste of time over.
>>82823340
If I can't watch anime in my 20's, what can I do!?
>>82823087
email me at for tentacle porn.[email protected]
>>82823087
>Space Brothers
Good adaptation. We were talking about adaptation and Sailoor moon anime isn't good at all.
>Daytime anime has become much less relevant since the turn of the millennium.
Because it's primarily for children which is something Japan has less of these days.
>>82823340
I do know that and that is why i am glad nobody comes to my house ever.
>>82823368
I repeat: email me at this
[spoiler?][email protected][/spoiler]
>>82823371
You can watch whatever you want. But, don't delude yourself into thinking you're cool or it's okay to be a manchild. Just watch it with no pretenses.
REMEMBER /co/! DEFEAT IS ONLY PAINFUL IF YOU LET IT BE.
TAKE YOUR EXPERIENCE FROM IT AND BECOME BETTER THAN YOU WERE. BLOSSOM INTO A BEAUTIFUL BUTTERFLY.
also watch Patlabor. It's better than SU. and every other cartoon that has been made.
>>82823361
I pity you and your kind. Forever wandering the wastes of the west, in search of decent animated programming.
One day you will finally understand that you are merely staring at the ground when you should be looking up at the sky.
>>82823006
Tezuka was not trying to re-create Disney. He was just a big fan of Disney and took some inspiration from them.
He and others went on to make the biggest and most advanced animation industry in the world. I guess that makes them "backwards," somehow.
>>82823034
Manga, light novels and visual novels essentially do not exist in the West, and you are severely underestimating the degree to which anime adapts and the degree to which it is networked with those industries (and other industries). The media mix practises of Japan and the West are on completely different levels.
>Because it wasn't their idea dumbass.
So what? I don't see anyone complain when a movie director directs a script someone else wrote.
>Not only does the West adapt stories (which apparently makes an inherent difference to quality)...
Anime makes plenty of original content too, and adapting a manga involves a bit more than "copypasting stills."
>At a much higher rate than in the West.
The West doesn't have an animation industry to support that kind of freelancing. What does this matter anyway?
>Oh, so you were referring to the ones the West does just as well.
No.
>difference between quantity and quality
You don't seem to understand that you can't just push a button labeled "quality" and have it shit out quality. You need a robust industry full of different people doing different things.
>Name one anime covers the West doesn't that isn't trash.
How many American animated shows are historical dramas, cyberpunk, thrillers, love stories (lesbian and gay included), sports stories or horror?
And note: I am not saying there doesn't necessarily exist ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING AT ALL in any given genre (loosely speaking or otherwise). This isn't just about filling a checklist.
>'Mecha' is not a literary theme. Neither is 'magic girls'.
I didn't mention either of those let alone call them literary themes, so I don't know what you're talking about here.
>fun musical numbers
Anime has little in the way of musicals.
>So 'representation' makes it not crap?
Do you even know what shows I'm talking about? I wasn't even talking about their quality, I was talking about the variety of anime.
>You're starting to sound like an SJW...
???
>>82823426
What about Venture Bros?
>>82823426
Scum. *Spits*
>>82823431
>Tezuka was not trying to re-create Disney. He was just a big fan of Disney and took some inspiration from them.
He rewatched Bambi close to 100 times and dickrode Carl Barks.
>>82823431
>He and others went on to make the biggest and most advanced animation industry in the world. I guess that makes them "backwards," somehow.
Finding away to mass manufacture cheap animation is an okay accomplishment. All they did was learn how to make animation cheaper and faster. If you think that's "Advanced" then you're probably another animu faggit.
>>82823451yes, Patlabor is better.
>>82823448
Hey /a/ let's talk.
>>82823451
Not same but i do agree it one animations in years what i have enjoyed which isnt anime
>>82823448
>Manga, light novels and visual novels
You mean picture books? Because that's what LN are essentially. Manga is just comics, btw. Printed on cheap newsprint.
you guys really hate each other, huh?
>>82823513
Nah, /co/ is just stundere for japan.
>>82823448
>How many American animated shows are historical dramas, cyberpunk, thrillers, love stories (lesbian and gay included), sports stories or horror?
Cartoons are a genre. We donin America don't need animated versions of shit we already have live action for. I never got this obsession that making an animated version of X makes it superior. If I made a 24 cartoon and the storyboards is the same as the show, what difference would it make? If we're debating content, why would medium matter when both are visual mediums?
>>82823513
Give me one ban hammer just one and I'll permanently ban a weeaboo's range ip address faster than The Flash circled earth 60 billion times.
>>82823052
>Then how the fuck would you know what you're talking about?
I don't need to watch daytime in order to know certain things about it.
>Oh, so just including a genre doesn't mean anything then?
Futurama and Planetes are extremely, radically different from each other. Futurama could only loosely be described as scifi, while Planetes embodies scifi. Saying that they're both scifi as if that makes them the same thing is just plain wrong.
>Then how the fuck is anime more varied?
I've explained this many times now.
>dramatic
>implying actual literary merit
>based off a manga
So you don't know anything at all about manga. And I wasn't even talking about "literary merit," I just said it's dramatic. Which it is.
>Then why does being sci fi (or any other genre) matter if it says nothing about what a given show actually accomplishes?
We are comparing Futurama with Planetes.
>Because anime 'humor' is fucking garbage.
I don't think it is.
>So does animation, writing, designs, and soundtrack.
To a much lesser degree.
>Why are you declaring those to be objectively better in anime yet excluding humor? Is it because it's inconvenient for your argument?
I haven't even said that American shows aren't funny.
>So is Western animation.
Not really. Shows in America are much more tightly controlled by networks, and the range of programming is very, very limited
>The fact it predominately focuses on children's comdy cartoons and sitcoms is no different than anime's focus on moe shit and bad manga adaptations.
There's like 1-3 moe shows a season (out of 30-50), and "bad manga adaptation" doesn't mean anything.
>Almost all of it is, including entire genres.
Wrong.
>>82823460
AND I CATCH IT WITH MY MOUTH AND FRENCH YOU WITH IT.
IS THIS THE CONCLUSION YOU DESIRED?
THE PATH THAT YOU CHOSE?
NO MATTER. FOR IT IS TOO LATE.
PUCKER UP CARTOON BOY.
>>82823574
Hey am I fucking invisible or what?
>>82823568
Watch Waltz with Bashir and tell me animation isn't a medium worth exploring other genres (that aren't comedy) in.
Just because the US is so far behind doesn't mean they should be.
Hey. Hey Japan. I have a present for you.
>>82823622
As a mass market it's not. We don't need 100 cartoons a year.
>>82814041
full weeb mode
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8mf6hRSRZ4
>>82823151
>You're not filling me with confidence.
I'm not going to say for an absolute fact that anime encompasses absolutely every genre of fiction there is. But it does encompass almost everything.
>Which are either fetish shows or a broader genre like action with a specific gimmick like mecha, which still makes it action.
The genres I'm referring to are magical girl, idol, harem and mecha (and maybe something else that I may be forgetting). Mecha is its own genre, not just action that happens to have robots.
I don't know what a "fetish show" is supposed to be.
>So does the West.
Absolutely not. Western animation doesn't cover anywhere near the same amount of ground that anime does. It's ludicrous that this still even being debated.
>Which tend to have a higher percentage of garbage.
You people are really, really terrified of "garbage." You want to live in this pristine ideal world where only good things are produced. That's called being risk-averse and playing it safe, which ultimately leads to stagnation, repetition and boredom. So you're accusing anime of not being risk averse and not playing it safe, and trying to frame it as a bad thing.
>No, just more autistically labelled
No, it is more varied as a matter of fact.
>>82823677
I never understood why this got so popular? It was bad.
Space Brothers is also better than every cartoon that has been made.
Unfortunately unlike Patlabor fan over there, I am not home at my computer (I assume), and thus will only post this image that I got off of google.
Stare at it and realize your inferiority.
>>82823687
>You people are really, really terrified of "garbage." You want to live in this pristine ideal world where only good things are produced. That's called being risk-averse and playing it safe, which ultimately leads to stagnation, repetition and boredom. So you're accusing anime of not being risk averse and not playing it safe, and trying to frame it as a bad thing.
This is the funniest post I've read in this thread. According to this person, quality control is being risk aversed. All whilst defending the most risk averse country on earth that produces hundreds of paint by numbers garbage cartoons annually.
>>82823180
There was a brief dip, then it started growing again and I believe has exceeded 2006.
>Second, anime is for kids hon.
Some of it is. These days most new anime is late night, i.e. not for children.
>Only adults who watch anime are otaku.
This is the usual "adults watch it but they're not REAL ADULTS so they don't count" argument people produce when they can't deny that adults watch anime but also don't want to admit it.
>>82823190
?
>>82823340
Otaku and otaku culture have become much less stigmatized and more popular than in the past. Things change.
Reminder that a report function exists for a reason.
>>82823727
I will concede that Space Brothers is a great anime, NAY, and EXCELLENT anime. However unlike Patlabor it sometimes slows down to a crawl. PLUS IT HAS RECAP EPISODES. EVIL I SAY.
Therefore I am correct, as expected, in my assertion that PATLABOR IS BETTER than every animated series ever made.
Did moot ever came here like in /a/?
What people don't realize is that the general business behind the scenes of any area of animation is the same "If it don't make dollars, it don't make sense." mindset, if reality was about shitting money covered rainbows out of our nether regions we'd be on season 4 of Motorcity by now and Ratchet & Clank would've (theoretically speaking) been the next Heavy Metal, and on the eastern front; more Redlines and Akiras than slice of life animu autists sperg over.
>>82823803
People like to whine about shading but forget that it's really about the color pallet you work with.
This scene has essentially no shading but still looks great due to its color pallet.
>>82823368
>Mangaka are not inherently equivalent with good writers
Well no shit. Nobody said every mangaka is a good writer.
>that's what your variety boils down to, an ambiguous mix of either good or bad, no assurance of either
That's exactly what I've been saying all along.
>Naruto and AoT being popular.
What about it?
>Not once this whole conversation did you provide any one defining detail about the anime industry in making sure it had good writers, other than the logic it has competition.
The industry does not collectively try to "make sure" it has good writers. That's not how the industry works, at all.
>And the more you dawdle on being unable to pinpoint completely, precise evidence for your point, the more you're only attributing to mine.
I've already proven my point.
>>82823470
Yes, I believe I just said that he was a big fan of Disney.
>Finding away to mass manufacture cheap animation is an okay accomplishment.
Anime is not "mass manufactured." What does that even mean? It's hand-drawn picture by picture by people, and the fact that it's done cheaply doesn't change the fact that it's also very high quality.
>All they did was learn how to make animation cheaper and faster.
And better.
>>82823511
Like I said, light novels and manga aren't a thing in the West.
![(G_P) Patlabor TV 15(x264 1080p)(6B442BCF).mkv_snapshot_04.34_[2016.05.16_12.35.04].png](https://i.imgur.com/4bRcOLk.jpg "(G P) Patlabor TV 15(x264 1080p)(6B442BCF).mkv snapshot 04.34 [2016.05.16 12.35.04]")
>>82823841
No. Because /co/ does not have Patlabor.
>>82823851
But i like slife of life genre. There is some good stuff in there.
>>82823568
Animation and live action are different mediums with different properties.
>>82823749
>According to this person, quality control is being risk aversed.
You're not talking about quality control, you're talking about being risk-averse.
>All whilst defending the most risk averse country on earth that produces hundreds of paint by numbers garbage cartoons annually.
Anime is not risk-averse or paint by numbers, and the quality varies just like it varies elsewhere.
>>82823841
>>82823905
No but seriously, not that I remember. It's always been /a/.
>>82823927
Some SoL's are really great. Like Barakamon.
>>82823771
>There was a brief dip, then it started growing again and I believe has exceeded 2006.
Post proof, I don't want your opinion.
>>82823771
>Some of it is. These days most new anime is late night, i.e. not for children.
Late night anime was never for kids.
>>82823771
>This is the usual "adults watch it but they're not REAL ADULTS so they don't count" argument people produce when they can't deny that adults watch anime but also don't want to admit it.
It's not socially acceptable to watch anime in Japan. There's nothing else to it.
>>82823771
>Otaku and otaku culture have become much less stigmatized and more popular than in the past. Things change.
Only retarded Niwaka think this. Less Stigma = Socially acceptable. I don't care what Dannychoo and the CoolJapan faggots tell you and it only is okay to be an Otakuchic because companies found out you could make money from this demographic and if you're a niwaka-ota. Real ota Kimoi-ota] are still not cool.
>>82823900
>Anime is not "mass manufactured." What does that even mean? It's hand-drawn picture by picture by people, and the fact that it's done cheaply doesn't change the fact that it's also very high quality.
It uses cheap limited animation and most of the techniques it uses is built around working with that limitation.
>And better.
Only to underage.
>>82823448
>Manga
Comics.
>light novels
Shitty books.
>visual novels
Shitty games.
>essentially do not exist in the West
They do, they're given a different name and the West doesn't need to rip content to that extent.
>and you are severely underestimating the degree to which anime adapts
Because they lack original ideas of their own and manga provides an easy source of content.
>The media mix practises of Japan and the West are on completely different levels.
Yes, because 1:1 adaptations of manga is obviously better than taking artistic license with timeless stories, or bringing their own vision to life.
>So what?
So the West is more original and is less afraid to alter parts of the source that don't work for the better, or do their own thing.
>I don't see anyone complain when a movie director directs a script someone else wrote.
Because directors are the primary creative force behind a movie and not the screenwriters, you fool.
>The West doesn't have an animation industry to support that kind of freelancing.
Sure it does, people in the West are smart enough to know permanent, happy, loyal employees tend to do better work.
>What does this matter anyway?
Who do you think is going to do a better job? Some random freelancer or an experienced animator whose worked with the company for years, understands their style and complements the rest of the team?
>No.
So you were referring to shitty fetish shows.
>You don't seem to understand that you can't just push a button labeled "quality" and have it shit out quality.
Point to anywhere I remotely implied that.
>You need a robust industry full of different people doing different things.
Wait, do you actually think the only way to get quality work is to toss shit at the wall and hope something sticks? Is that how anime is able to put out anything decent, by praying to the law of statistics?
>>82823988
Damo and Darren are better
>>82823905
If I wanted to get into Patlabor, where should I begin? I mean there's a ton of Patlabor series/continuities.
>>82823988
Fuck yes mate.
>whadiyatalkinabeet
>>82823956
>Animation and live action are different mediums with different properties.
Animation is heavily used in live action. See: CG.
They're both visual mediums and the difference is much smaller than say other mediums like music or literature. Anything you do in one can be done in the other.
>>82823956
>You're not talking about quality control, you're talking about being risk-averse.
How is making hundreds of shows with 2 good series being risky? Most of those shows are shit because they're generic and safe.
>>82823956
>Anime is not risk-averse or paint by numbers, and the quality varies just like it varies elsewhere.
Anime is an absolute shitty industry with poor quality control and slave like conditions. Just because they can produce some good works sometimes doesn't change the fact that their industry is awful. It's like saying because China doesn't make exploding goods that it's a high quality manufacturer. Asinine.
>>82823448
>How many American animated shows are historical dramas
That would just be 'drama', and I'm not sure what this says about how well it was covered. Your confusing individual gimmicks with genre.
>cyberpunk
Again, this would be an aesthetic, not a genre.
>love stories
You can keep your fetish shows, thank you very much.
>sports stories
Do tell, what percentage of anime is sport shows related?
>or horror
>implying it isn't violence porn
>implying the genre works outside live action or print
Stahp. Now.
>I am not saying there doesn't necessarily exist ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING AT ALL
So does it exist in the West? Then tell me Einstein, since the West puts out less than anime, that would mean by definition mean it would have less outlier shows as well without actually being less varied proportionally, wouldn't it?
>This isn't just about filling a checklist.
That seems to be all you care about.
>I didn't mention either of those let alone call them literary themes
So there existence doesn't mean anime is more varied thematically nor in terms of genre, doesn't it?
>anime has few musicals
But I thought you said it does everything better?
>I wasn't even talking about their quality
Because there's no defending that.
>I was talking about the variety of anime
Which you just admitted is different from quality. So why is anime better for having more variety (when it doesn't)?
>>82823965
Aria is good too.
>>82823968
>Post proof, I don't want your opinion.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Ajj_IfkmgvF0dDQzZVJKYmVjc0s3dTNHdVdlLVo2dnc&output=html
I think this is not fully counting absolutely every TV anime though. I was also recently snooping around on AniDB, and there's been a substantial numeric increase in light novel adaptations and original anime since 2008 (I was only looking at those two).
>Late night anime was never for kids.
Late night anime has hardly even existed until the late 90s. Before that, anime aired during normal hours.
>It's not socially acceptable to watch anime in Japan.
If it wasn't then the anime industry as we know it would not exist. And you're peddling outdated stereotypes here; the acceptance and popularity of otaku culture has improved since the 90s.
>Only retarded Niwaka think this.
There's a lot of circumstancial evidence to support it, like box office results, business collaborations (e.g. Monogatari and Hello Kitty), and various other things (e.g. a Japanese minister recently mused that it might be nice to have Love Live as part of the Olympics). Polls conducted by an author for Debating Otaku in Contemporary Japan found that attitudes towards otaku had become clearly more positive during a ten year period.
>I don't care what Dannychoo and the CoolJapan faggots tell you
I've hardly ever even visited his site.
>>82824036
I'M GLAD YOU ASKED, HERE'S MY PLEBS GUIDE TO PATLABOR!
You got two OVAs, three films, a series and a little comedy chibi/paper style special called Mini-Pato.
HERE'S HOW YOU WATCH THEM!
MOVIE TIMELINE
1st OVA----1st Film----2nd Film----3rd Film (Not really Patlabor)
SERIES TIMELINE
Series ----2nd OVA
Mini-Pato (Watch after seeing the Series and 2nd OVA.
IT'S THAT SIMPLE! Start with either the series or the film timeline; I prefer the series to the films, but it's all good.
>>82824105
Nice. I got hyped up from that webm from the 2nd movie. The one with the spinny hand calibration.
Now that my backlogs cleared, I've got time to enjoy some mecha.
Thanks!
>>82824060
But do you think western cartoons are better. For me they both their flaws but both can be good when they want to be.
>>82824153
NO PROBLEM! NOW GO FORTH MY CHILD, AND ENJOY PATLABOR!
>>82824084
>https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Ajj_IfkmgvF0dDQzZVJKYmVjc0s3dTNHdVdlLVo2dnc&output=html
There's no source in that spread sheet.
>I think this is not fully counting absolutely every TV anime though. I was also recently snooping around on AniDB, and there's been a substantial numeric increase in light novel adaptations and original anime since 2008 (I was only looking at those two).
Where?
Show your source with actual numbers not a spreadsheet with random numbers on it.
>Late night anime has hardly even existed until the late 90s. Before that, anime aired during normal hours.
Yeah, because before they had Ova's. Adult anime is a newer facet to anime. Anime was generally for kids.
>If it wasn't then the anime industry as we know it would not exist. And you're peddling outdated stereotypes here; the acceptance and popularity of otaku culture has improved since the 90s.
This is a non-sequitur
There's no correlation between your premise and conclusion. Animation was generally for kids as far as the 90's. Nothing has changed outside of the niwaka boom and otaku are still stigmatized. Just because poseurs have infiltrated the sub-culture and are accepted doesn't mean real ota are.
>
There's a lot of circumstancial evidence to support it, like box office results, business collaborations (e.g. Monogatari and Hello Kitty), and various other things (e.g. a Japanese minister recently mused that it might be nice to have Love Live as part of the Olympics). Polls conducted by an author for Debating Otaku in Contemporary Japan found that attitudes towards otaku had become clearly more positive during a ten year period.
I already touched on this. Azuma and Toshio Okada touched on this. It's a marketing trend, that has nothing to do with real otaku being accepted. Just because faggot ass Niwaka are. Niwaka aren't real ota anyway, they have part-time jobs and only appeared in the 3rd Gen.
>>82823771
>?
LETS PLOT A COURSE
>>82824002
Cheap and limited doesn't mean bad.
>Only to underage.
No, to anyone who understands animation.
>>82824034
>Comics.
Not really equivalent.
>Shitty books.
"Light novel" is a type of novel, not a quality assessment.
>Shitty games.
Visual novels are a genre of games, although many people say they shouldn't be called games.
>the West doesn't need to rip content to that extent.
It has nothing to do with "ripping." It's the publisher who commissions the anime adaptation.
>Because they lack original ideas of their own and manga provides an easy source of content.
The world is overflowing with ideas. Everyone has ideas.
A manga is adapted to firstly promote the manga and increase its sales, and to secondly make money from the anime.
And again there are plenty of original anime too. I recently looked this up on AniDB, and there were 43 original anime released in 2015.
>Yes, because 1:1 adaptations of manga is obviously better than taking artistic license with timeless stories, or bringing their own vision to life.
What does this have to do with what I said?
>Because directors are the primary creative force behind a movie and not the screenwriters, you fool.
They're "ripping off" someone else's ideas because they just couldn't come up with original ones.
>Sure it does
American shows mostly outsource all their animation production to Korea or another Asian country, and produce much fewer shows than Japan.
>Who do you think is going to do a better job?
The better animator.
>So you were referring to shitty fetish shows.
No.
>Point to anywhere I remotely implied that.
You get quality when you have a lot of different people doing a lot of different things. The by-product is mediocre and bad shows. But clearly you can't live in a world with mediocre and bad shows and only want the good ones, as if you could indeed just push a button and make them appear.
>>82824084
>https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Ajj_IfkmgvF0dDQzZVJKYmVjc0s3dTNHdVdlLVo2dnc&output=html
>I think this is not fully counting absolutely every TV anime though. I was also recently snooping around on AniDB, and there's been a substantial numeric increase in light novel adaptations and original anime since 2008 (I was only looking at those two).
Get a better source next time.
>>82824318
>Cheap and limited doesn't mean bad.
Those words are completely synonymous with bad.
>No, to anyone who understands animation.
I.E. not you.
>>82824318
>Not really equivalent.
It's the same medium.
and with that my job is done.
I wish I could hover around your petty arguments a bit longer, but I have some sleep I need to catch up on.
Farewell.
>>82823574
>I don't need to watch daytime
>"I'm ignorant and proud."
>Futurama could only loosely be described as scifi
The entire shtick is a comedy in a sci fi setting. Goofy sci fi is just as sci fi as 'serious drama'.
>while Planetes embodies scifi.
No it doesn't, it uses sci fi as a backdrop for the rest of the show, same as Futurama does.
>Saying that they're both scifi as if that makes them the same thing is just plain wrong.
I didn't say they were the same thing, I said both were sci fi in response to you implying the West didn't have sci fi covered, which was egregiously wrong.
>I've explained this many times now.
You referring to the autistic labelling of everything or shitty fetish shows?
>So you don't know anything at all about manga.
I know it's manga, Anon, and that's all that needs to be said so far as actual merit goes.
>And I wasn't even talking about "literary merit,"
Then why the fuck bring it up if it isn't good? Didn't you say it wasn't about checking off a list?
>We are comparing Futurama with Planetes.
No, we were discussing how the West touches the genres just as well. You said Futurama wasn't sci fi, got called out, and then said just being sci fi doesn't say anything about the shows themselves, which has nothing to do with the fact the West has sci fi too.
>I don't think it is.
You can lie to us but you can't lie to yourself Anon. There's a reason you haven't given a single counterexample nor ever defended this stillborn.
>To a much lesser degree.
Please explain how a silly, light hearted soundtracked is objectively worse than a 'serious one' (or more's often the case, some terrible rock). Same for character designs, writing and animation.
>I haven't even said that American shows aren't funny.
You said anime was better at everything. Everything includes humor. Do you stand by anime having better humor or not?
>>82823574
>Shows in America are much more tightly controlled by networks
Who allow oddball experiments just as much as anime studios do, not to mention the independent guys and movies studios.
NOTE: I love how you act like all Western animation is television, and ignore its big brother.
>There's like 1-3 moe shows a season
You missed a few zeroes.
>and "bad manga adaptation" doesn't mean anything.
Throwing a 'bad' in front of 'manga' is a bit redundant, yes. Would you prefer 'shameless ripoffs of East comics'?
>Wrong.
>actually defending Yaoi shit
This is almost as bad as humoring their humor.
>>82824034
>Wait, do you actually think the only way to get quality work is to toss shit at the wall and hope something sticks?
That's part of it. You need to have room for failure.
The alternative is to focus and market test a safe concept. And even then it might turn out shit.
>>82824057
Yes the difference is smaller than between music and literature, but that doesn't change the fact that they are different mediums with different properties.
The anime industry allows for the possibility of failure. A lot of different kinds of shows are made, some of them obviously not commercially sound ideas. Sometimes things don't work out (the show turns out bad or just doesn't sell for whatever reason), sometimes they do.
But you just want very safe concepts that don't take any risks and don't anything differently and only follow what has worked before. I guess anime isn't for you.
>>82823687
>I'm not going to say for an absolute fact that anime encompasses absolutely every genre of fiction there is.
Then why are you?
>The genres I'm referring to are magical girl, idol, harem and mecha
Which are just specific gimmicks in a broader genre like action or comedy. That's not variety, that's splitting hairs. Also, harem is trash.
>Mecha is its own genre, not just action that happens to have robots.
Probably the best joke to ever come out of Japan. But please, explaining how having fighting robits elevates a show beyond 'Action'.
>I don't know what a "fetish show" is supposed to be.
I thought you watched anime?
>You people are really, really terrified of "garbage."
Not seeing a denial here. Why is that?
>You want to live in this pristine ideal world where only good things are produced.
Yes, who doesn't? Putting effort into a quality product instead of shitting out the first thing you think of isn't being risk averse, it's called giving a shit and making the most of the scant resources available.
>So you're accusing anime of not being risk averse and not playing it safe
No, I'm accusing the vast majority of it, including entire genres, of being the garbage they are.
>No, it is more varied as a matter of fact.
What fact? Where has this been statistically verified? Whose listed every anime ever made, every genre each of those encompass, and statistically compared it to Western media? Because until then its not a fact.
>>82821762
why are they giving the voice actors so much money
>>82824060
Historical drama is, I believe, considered a subgenre. How are historical dramas "gimmicks" now?
>Again, this would be an aesthetic, not a genre.
Cyberpunk most certainly is a genre.
>You can keep your fetish shows, thank you very much.
What is a "fetish show," and how are, say, Emma: A Victorian Romance, His and Her Circumstances, Kimagure Orange Road, Aoi Hana and Say You Love Me "fetish shows"?
>Do tell, what percentage of anime is sport shows related?
There is a lot of sports anime. Even shows about imaginary sports.
>implying it isn't violence porn
It may or may not be.
>implying the genre works outside live action or print
I think it works better in live action and literature too, but nevertheless there is horror anime.
>So does it exist in the West?
Well why don't you tell me.
>That seems to be all you care about.
It isn't.
>So there existence doesn't mean anime is more varied thematically nor in terms of genre, doesn't it?
What are you talking about?
>But I thought you said it does everything better?
Maybe you should re-visit the things I listed. Nothing there says that anime does musicals better.
>Because there's no defending that.
Sure there is. Sabagebu and Stella C3 are both good shows.
>Which you just admitted is different from quality.
Uh... well obviously it is. Variety is not by itself quality.
>So why is anime better for having more variety (when it doesn't)?
It does.
Having many different kinds of stories about many different things is obviously better than having a very narrow range of stories.
>>82824448
Nah there is not that much moe shows in season as /co/ thinks and if there is most of them doesnt sell expect maybe 2 or 3.
>>82817385
Bobobo bo bobobo got cancelled in Japan by angry parents.
Everything sucks everywhere.
>>82824562
>Yes the difference is smaller than between music and literature, but that doesn't change the fact that they are different mediums with different properties.
You're being awfully vague. What difference can you bring about in animation vs live action? Nevermind, Animation is habitually used in live action these days.
>The anime industry allows for the possibility of failure. A lot of different kinds of shows are made, some of them obviously not commercially sound ideas. Sometimes things don't work out (the show turns out bad or just doesn't sell for whatever reason), sometimes they do.
But you just want very safe concepts that don't take any risks and don't anything differently and only follow what has worked before. I guess anime isn't for you.
The only thing anime has is content versus western shows in regards to the fact that cartoons for most of it's history has not been diverse. This is of course changing. While anime has become more and more safe. Experimental studios like manglobe are gone for example. You're deluded if you think anime is a brave new world. I'll admitt that the industry is bigger than american animation and even comics. But, it's a soulless cash machine. Western media is far more creative.
>>82824639
pffffffftttttt
>>82824238
>There's no source in that spread sheet.
Then feel free to go look up the numbers yourself.
>Where?
On my hard-disk, and there's clearly no point in me copy-pasting it since you're just going to insist that I made up the numbers.
I don't know why you're this damn obsessed with arguing that anime production peaked in 2006.
>Adult anime is a newer facet to anime. Anime was generally for kids.
The boundary between children's and adult anime has always been very blurry in Japan, and the whole reason why anime has developed the way it has is because it has been approached as more than just being "for kids." Gundam was at least nominally intended for children, but it was way more sophisticated than what "for kids" implies from a Western perspective. It was because of shows like Gundam and Yamato that OVAs and whatnot were developed.
Shows like Aim for the Ace, Attack No.1 and Kimagure Orange Road and Maison Ikkoku don't seem like they were targeting children at all.
>Nothing has changed outside of the niwaka boom and otaku are still stigmatized.
Things change. Japan is not frozen in time. Just like "geek" things have become more popular and accepted in America, so has otaku culture become more popular and accepted in Japan.
>It's a marketing trend, that has nothing to do with real otaku being accepted.
Yes yes, and anything you don't like in Japan is just "baiting" and "pandering" because the world revolves around you.
>>82824639
Western media can be creative if they want but it is kinda same as it is japan. And there is still good shows.
>>82822216
Everyone on 4chan
>>82824326
That only extends to 2008, and I already said there was a dip in production some time after 2006.
>>82824352
The results speak for themselves. Your theories are meaningless.
>I.E. not you.
But I do understand animation.
>>82824371
And not really equivalent.
>>82824421
>"I'm ignorant and proud."
What am I ignorant of, then?
>The entire shtick is a comedy in a sci fi setting. Goofy sci fi is just as sci fi as 'serious drama'.
Again, Futurama and Planetes are extremely different and it's highly misleading to say they're both scifi and therefore equivalent.
>No it doesn't, it uses sci fi as a backdrop for the rest of the show, same as Futurama does.
Planetes is hard science fiction and deals with the societal issues caused by space travel and colonization. That's what science fiction is all about.
>I said both were sci fi in response to you implying the West didn't have sci fi covered, which was egregiously wrong.
See above.
>You referring to the autistic labelling of everything or shitty fetish shows?
I'm referring to the fact that anime covers massively more ground than American/Western animation does.
I still have no idea what a "fetish show" is.
>I know it's manga, Anon, and that's all that needs to be said so far as actual merit goes.
So, again, you don't know anything at all about manga.
>Then why the fuck bring it up if it isn't good?
What are you talking about? I simply said it's a dramatic show, and it is. What's the problem here?
>No, we were discussing how the West touches the genres just as well.
But it doesn't.
>You can lie to us but you can't lie to yourself Anon.
I'm not lying.
>There's a reason you haven't given a single counterexample nor ever defended this stillborn.
You obviously don't find Japanese humor funny, so there's no counter-examples for me to give. Humor is very subjective.
>You said anime was better at everything.
Can you quote where I said that?
>>82824448
>Who allow oddball experiments just as much as anime studios do
Not at all.
>NOTE: I love how you act like all Western animation is television, and ignore its big brother.
Anime wins in that department as well.
>You missed a few zeroes.
You just don't watch modern anime so you don't what's actually airing and what's not.
>Throwing a 'bad' in front of 'manga' is a bit redundant, yes. Would you prefer 'shameless ripoffs of East comics'?
?
>actually defending Yaoi shit
When were we talking about yaoi (the correct term is BL by the way)?
>>82824318
>Not really equivalent.
You're right, comics actually end individual storylines.
>"Light novel" is a type of novel
Yes, a bad one.
>Visual novels are a genre of games
Where gameplay is king. Visual novels have shitty gameplay, and are therefore shitty games.
>It has nothing to do with "ripping."
They are taking a pre-existing, typically recent source and remaking it as close to the original as possible. That is a ripoff Zack Snyder would be proud of.
>It's the publisher who commissions the anime adaptation.
Which is a large part of the industry, hence the stigma.
>The world is overflowing with ideas. Everyone has ideas.
Except anime writers, apparently.
>A manga is adapted to firstly promote the manga and increase its sales
Thanks for admitting your precious Chinese cartoons are little more than glorified commercials.
>I recently looked this up on AniDB
*laughing intensifies*
>and there were 43 original anime released in 2015.
Out of a grand total of how many running shows?
>What does this have to do with what I said?
That anime doesn't even do adaptations better.
>They're "ripping off" someone else's ideas because they just couldn't come up with original ones.
Did you skip over the words 'primary creative force'? Are you unaware of all the changes directors make on the fly, as well as being responsible for executing the thing with no visual reference for live action? Or are you referring to the huge number of directors that contribute to or write the screenplay as well?
>>82824318
>American shows mostly outsource all their animation production
While keeping the most important parts (writing and directing) in house. And again, movies don't play that game.
>The better animator.
And who do you think that is going to be? A random freelancer or experienced animator who knows the team?
>No
So you were referring to nothing?
>You get quality when you have a lot of different people doing a lot of different things.
No, you get quality when you have talented people and give them the resources, including money, time, people and equipment, to create something special. Shitting out garbage until you get a diamond is not only grossly inefficient but an insult to creators.
>The by-product is mediocre and bad shows.
The by-products is a good show provided you give the talent what they need and have the smallest bit of luck and sense.
>But clearly you can't live in a world with mediocre and bad shows
Where did I say anything of the sort? Do you not understand the difference between content creators to strive for excellence in everything they do and being able to accept that shit happens?
This is nothing more than a distraction from the fact you believe anime can only make anything good by playing the odds, which is just sad.
>>82824572
>Then why are you?
Huh?
>Which are just specific gimmicks in a broader genre like action or comedy.
They are their own genres.
>Also, harem is trash.
Some harem shows are bad, some aren't.
>But please, explaining how having fighting robits elevates a show beyond 'Action'.
It simply is its own genre. Your opinion on the matter is irrelevant.
>I thought you watched anime?
So you can't explain what it is?
>Not seeing a denial here. Why is that?
Well obviously there are garbage shows too. Nobody said there aren't.
>Yes, who doesn't?
People who aren't delusional.
>Putting effort into a quality product instead of shitting out the first thing you think of isn't being risk averse, it's called giving a shit and making the most of the scant resources available.
You can try to spin this any way you like, but the fact is that you're advocating for being risk-averse.
>No, I'm accusing the vast majority of it, including entire genres, of being the garbage they are.
Your accusation is false.
>What fact?
The fact that anime objectively covers more ground than Western animation. Western animation simply does not have the same range of stories.
>>82824738
>Then feel free to go look up the numbers yourself.
Already did. Pic related, no post 2013 numbers have ever been posted.
>On my hard-disk, and there's clearly no point in me copy-pasting it since you're just going to insist that I made up the numbers.
>I don't know why you're this damn obsessed with arguing that anime production peaked in 2006
Sure it is and I stated it because it's true. Please post actual proof next time.
>The boundary between children's and adult anime has always been very blurry in Japan, and the whole reason why anime has developed the way it has is because it has been approached as more than just being "for kids." Gundam was at least nominally intended for children, but it was way more sophisticated than what "for kids" implies from a Western perspective. It was because of shows like Gundam and Yamato that OVAs and whatnot were developed.
Shows like Aim for the Ace, Attack No.1 and Kimagure Orange Road and Maison Ikkoku don't seem like they were targeting children at all.
OMFG, you're an idiot. What's acceptable content for kids varies by country. In Japan Doraemon is for kids, but features lots of nudity and a running gag where Shizuka is in a bath and they run in on her. That obviously, would not fly in the states. Saying that something is unacceptable in one cultural context doesn't mean the rules are "blurry" for what is for kids and what is not.
>>82824738
>Things change. Japan is not frozen in time. Just like "geek" things have become more popular and accepted in America, so has otaku culture become more popular and accepted in Japan.
No, it hasn't. It's only popular as a marketing gimmick. Real Kimoi ota are scum, stop believing everything you hear from marketers.
>>82824738
>Yes yes, and anything you don't like in Japan is just "baiting" and "pandering" because the world revolves around you.
I provide sources for my claims, though.
>>82824639
Animation is wholly determined by the artist, down to the last pixel, drop of paint and stroke of the pen. There are no actors, cameras, sets, special effects, costumes and shooting locations. It's also a different artform; animating a character running down a corridor is not the same thing at all as telling an actor to do the same and rolling the camera.
>Nevermind, Animation is habitually used in live action these days.
I'm not talking about 3DCG effects.
>While anime has become more and more safe.
It has actually never been more diverse than now.
>But, it's a soulless cash machine.
It's not.
>Western media is far more creative.
How is sticking to almost nothing but episodic children's cartoons and adult sitcoms that run for years or decades creative?
>>82824873
>The results speak for themselves. Your theories are meaningless.
The results are shit. So, okay.
>>82824873
>But I do understand animation.
You clearly do not. You've demonstrated this several times so far.
>>82824583
>How are historical dramas "gimmicks" now?
Because it's just a drama in a specific setting.
>What is a "fetish show,"
Half the anime genres.
>There is a lot of sports anime.
Name a ten good ones.
>Even shows about imaginary sports.
IE toy commercials.
>It may or may not be.
It is. Animated horror doesn't work whatsoever.
>but nevertheless there is horror anime.
That fails spectacularly at its job.
>Well why don't you tell me.
No, fetish shows don't, thank Christ.
>It isn't.
Then why do you keep bringing it up if they weren't done well? No one gets points for trying and failing.
>What are you talking about?
The fact labelling a specific action show as mecha doesn't make anime any better.
>Maybe you should re-visit the things I listed.
>>82819005
>Anime is inherently better, though.
>Sabagebu and Stella C3 are both good shows.
Link to two 'funny' scenes from either of them.
>Variety is not by itself quality.
So why do you keep trying to pass it off as it?
>Having many different kinds of stories about many different things is obviously better than having a very narrow range of stories.
Not when the vast majority of them are shit compared to the 'narrow range'.
>>82825216
>Animation is wholly determined by the artist, down to the last pixel, drop of paint and stroke of the pen. There are no actors, cameras, sets, special effects, costumes and shooting locations. It's also a different artform; animating a character running down a corridor is not the same thing at all as telling an actor to do the same and rolling the camera.
Large scale animation doesn't have a single auteur, though.
>I'm not talking about 3DCG effects.
Neither am I. The biggest films ever is completely animated: Avatar.
>It has actually never been more diverse than now.
In between the paint by numbers trash. Most of the creativity was from the bubble era which is gone since the anime bubble popped in 2006.
>How is sticking to almost nothing but episodic children's cartoons and adult sitcoms that run for years or decades creative?
There's a creative space where some good works have been created. Anime despite having more room for creative endeavors sucks ass at them. It's really no better other than wwanting to be a wanna be Hollywood. Anime directors wanna be film directors.
>It's not.
It is.
>>82824988
Superhero comics just keep getting rebooted, reinvented and retooled decade after decade.
>Yes, a bad one.
No.
>Where gameplay is king. Visual novels have shitty gameplay, and are therefore shitty games.
Like I said somewhere before, some argue that visual novels are not games at all.
What are you even arguing about anymore? That you think visual novels are failures as games has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
>They are taking a pre-existing, typically recent source and remaking it as close to the original as possible. That is a ripoff Zack Snyder would be proud of.
The publisher is adapting its own property. In no way does this constitute ripping off anyone or anything.
>Which is a large part of the industry, hence the stigma.
Huh?
>Except anime writers, apparently.
Do you really think that if someone has an idea they can just get it made right away? Anime doesn't work that way, and neither do Hollywood and American television.
>Thanks for admitting your precious Chinese cartoons are little more than glorified commercials.
The publisher does not make the anime themselves, they hire other people to do it for them. The fact that the publisher is motivated by promotion does not tell us anything about the motives and attitudes of the people who actually make the anime.
>*laughing intensifies*
It has powerful search capabilities. What's wrong with using them?
>Out of a grand total of how many running shows?
I wasn't looking at that at the time.
>That anime doesn't even do adaptations better.
They do them just fine.
>Did you skip over the words 'primary creative force'?
No.
>>82825015
Which doesn't change the fact that they outsource the animation production to Asia.
>And who do you think that is going to be?
The better animator.
You don't seem to realize that freelancing and subcontracting are totally normal in the anime industry. It's not built on self-reliant studios doing everything in-house. People also know each other even if they don't work in the same company, and production practises are standardized so everyone is on the same page.
Freelancers produce tip-top animation all the time.
>So you were referring to nothing?
No.
>No, you get quality when you have talented people and give them the resources, including money, time, people and equipment, to create something special.
They could still fuck up. Happens all the time.
>Shitting out garbage until you get a diamond is not only grossly inefficient but an insult to creators.
That's not what the anime industry does.
>The by-products is a good show
The objective is to produce good shows. Therefore bad and mediocre shows are a by-product.
>Where did I say anything of the sort?
Everywhere.
>>82824873
>What am I ignorant of, then?
The very show you're critisizing for not being sci fi enough, for starters.
>Again, Futurama and Planetes are extremely different
But both sci fi, which is what was being discussed.
>That's what science fiction is all about.
>ITT science fiction is only about space
>most of HG Wells novels weren't sci fi
>neither is Genndy Wars
>isn't just any fantasy setting with magic swapped for super science
>implying Futurama doesn't have it's own emotional moments allowed by technobabble
By all means, do go on.
>I'm referring to the fact that anime covers massively more ground than American/Western animation does.
Which is a lie, or only when taking into account complete garbage like harem.
>So, again, you don't know anything at all about manga.
DBZ and Naruto are masterpieces, yes? Everyone knows manga normally turns out works on par with lit and classic folklore (the sources the West usually draws from).
>I simply said it's a dramatic show, and it is. What's the problem here?
That trying to be dramatic has nothing to fucking do with being actually good or not.
>But it doesn't.
It does.
>I'm not lying.
A jest can be taken too far, friend.
>so there's no counter-examples for me to give.
Because it's objectively atrocious.
>>82824929
>Not at all.
Someone's never watched BatB.
>Anime wins in that department as well.
How many anime movies are about cooking rats?
>You just don't watch modern anime
Sorry for having taste.
>When were we talking about yaoi
When you implied variety mattered to the quality of the medium.
>>82825073
It's missing three years, which is not trivial.
>Please post actual proof next time.
So you can say it's fake? In fact, there is nothing preventing me from faking the numbers. It's just a text file I put together.
Again, no idea why you're so obsessed with this.
>Saying that something is unacceptable in one cultural context doesn't mean the rules are "blurry" for what is for kids and what is not.
Toshio Okada has also pointed out that the line is blurry in Japan. And it really is.
>It's only popular as a marketing gimmick.
How does it work as a marketing gimmick if everyone hates and despises otaku and doesn't want to associate with them?
>Real Kimoi ota are scum, stop believing everything you hear from marketers.
Otaku are not a monolith, and I haven't been hearing anything from marketers.
>I provide sources for my claims, though.
What sources?
>>82825237
No, the results are not shit. Anime is the best hand-drawn animation in the world.
>You clearly do not.
I do.
>>82824580
Lots of voice actors have star power in japan.
>>82825254
>Because it's just a drama in a specific setting.
So kind of like... uh... most dramas?
>Half the anime genres.
What genres? How?
>Name a ten good ones.
Why do they need to be "good" (as defined by you)? I guess you realized that there actually are a lot of sports anime, so now you're moving the goalposts.
>IE toy commercials.
Do you even understand what a toy commercial is? I don't know of a single anime that could be called a toy commercial. Maybe some daytime intended for kids, but shows like Prince of Stride, Four Rhythm Across the Blue and Girls und Panzer don't even sell toys. They aren't meant for children.
>It is.
Where's the violence porn in Dusk Maiden of Amnesia?
>No, fetish shows don't, thank Christ.
What fetish shows?
>Then why do you keep bringing it up if they weren't done well?
What are you even referring to here?
>The fact labelling a specific action show as mecha doesn't make anime any better.
Nobody said it does, and again mecha is a genre.
>Anime is inherently better, though.
And then I go on to list various generic qualities like animation and background art. Where did I say anything about musicals?
>Link to two 'funny' scenes from either of them.
I never said they're comedies or ought to be comedies. In fact only one of them is a comedy.
>So why do you keep trying to pass it off as it?
The variety in the anime industry gives rise to quality.
>Not when the vast majority of them are shit
They aren't.
>>82824873
How could you imply the West doesn't do scifi when we gave the world Star Wars, Star Trek, and BattleStar Galactica?
>>82825568
>It's missing three years, which is not trivial.
It's still more valid than anything you've posted period. There is no authoritative chart that counts the amount of anime post 2012.
>So you can say it's fake? In fact, there is nothing preventing me from faking the numbers. It's just a text file I put together. Again, no idea why you're so obsessed with this.
So, then post something with credibility? How is that hard?
>>82825568
>Toshio Okada has also pointed out that the line is blurry in Japan. And it really is.
Where?
>How does it work as a marketing gimmick if everyone hates and despises otaku and doesn't want to associate with them?
There's no correlation between the general publics attitude and Marketers attitude towards Otaku. So, that's irrelevant.
>Otaku are not a monolith, and I haven't been hearing anything from marketers.
I said Aniota several times and who cares if yo haven't hard anything. Your opinion is irrelevant, you can barely post a source to anything you claim.
>What sources?
The graph I posted versus your spreadsheets. You really are slow.
>No, the results are not shit. Anime is the best hand-drawn animation in the world.
They can barely get the animation part right. You're deluded, though. So, I'm not surprised.
>I do.
Nope, you've demonstrated that you really don't know anything.
>>82825046
>Huh?
You've repeatedly asserted anime covers everything despite admitting you have no proof of this.
>They are their own genres.
They're gimmicks.
>Some harem shows are bad, some
Worse.
>It simply is its own genre.
>muh axiomatic assertion
Neato. You do know labelling things doesn't make it more varied, right?
>So you can't explain what it is?
Yaoi, harem, sexualizing young children, all that nonsense.
>Well obviously there are garbage shows too.
And anime has a higher relative percentage of garbage.
>People who aren't delusional.
You implying people would want shitty shows if there was an option not to while keeping the good ones?
>You can try to spin this any way you like, but the fact is
You have zero confidence in content creators and people being competent at what they do in general.
>Your accusation is false.
Name a single harem, yaoi, or airsoft show with lasting, timeless quality.
>The fact that anime objectively covers more ground than Western animation.
In terrible 'genres' no one cares about.
>>82825341
Nobody said it does.
>The biggest films ever is completely animated: Avatar.
And what does it have to do with anime?
>In between the paint by numbers trash.
There are 30-50 half hour long shows every season. Anime is very diverse and has a lot of things in it. Not all of it is good or original. Then again, not all live action is good or original either--except nobody ever complains about that for some reason.
>Anime despite having more room for creative endeavors sucks ass at them.
It doesn't.
>Anime directors wanna be film directors.
The fact that anime is a cinematic form of animation doesn't mean anime directors would rather be live action directors.
>It is.
No. This is a myth.
>>82824583
>Westerners
>No Cyberpunk
Matrix
Terminator
Robocop
Batman Beyond
Code Fucking Lyoko
Shall I go on?
>>82824988
>>Not really equivalent.
>You're right, comics actually end individual storylines.
So does manga, why would you say this? You must know it's not true
>>82824873
They are the equivalent, comic,manga,bd it's all the same shit. It's all comics, it's all sequential art, it's pictures and words and sound effects.
>>82817385
>Bobo bo whatever only aired maybe 2episodes in my area and was immediately dropped on a saturday morning program.
How? It was on cartoon network, they don't just customize their schedules to small areas like that,
>>82825489
>The very show you're critisizing for not being sci fi enough, for starters.
What does Futurama have to do with daytime anime?
>But both sci fi, which is what was being discussed.
And as I've repeatedly explained, that doesn't mean what you think it means.
>ITT science fiction is only about space
I never said that.
>implying Futurama doesn't have it's own emotional moments allowed by technobabble
Please don't embarass yourself by trying to make it seem like Futurama is even remotely the same thing as Planetes.
>Which is a lie
No, it isn't. Western animation simply does not, as a matter of fact and objective reality, have the variety of anime. Those shows and movies do not exist. This is not a theoretical debate.
>or only when taking into account complete garbage like harem.
Why are you so obsessed with harem anime?
>DBZ and Naruto are masterpieces, yes?
Whatever. There's a billion manga out there.
>That trying to be dramatic has nothing to fucking do with being actually good or not.
I never said being dramatic makes something good.
>It does.
It factually does not. Your argument here hinges on ridiculousness like insisting Futurama is equivalent to Planetes because it's kind of like scifi.
>A jest can be taken too far, friend.
I'm not lying.
>Because it's objectively atrocious.
No it isn't.
>>82825768
>Nobody said it does.
You just did you fuckin idiot. You said a single animator can affect everything in an animated work, which is false because a singe animator rarely if ever has the influence.
>And what does it have to do with anime?
God, you're dumb. We were discussing the differences between animation and film as mediums. There's alot of crossover and therefore the gulf isn't as wide as you made it seem FFS.
>There are 30-50 half hour long shows every season. Anime is very diverse and has a lot of things in it. Not all of it is good or original. Then again, not all live action is good or original either--except nobody ever complains about that for some reason.
I love these non-conclusive points: "Not all live action is good" No shit? The argument is that anime is garbage because the industry is comparable to a third world sweat shop and thus it cannot consistently produce good works. Let's ignore the mediocre works from anime and live action or cartoons and concentrate on the best or most critically acclaimed. In one corner we have: Breaking Bad, Walking Dead, Game of Thrones vs Naruto, Sword Arts Online, Bakemonogatari and so on. There's clearly a difference in quality. Anime fucking sucks.
>It doesn't.
It does. See, I can do this too.
>>82825768
>The fact that anime is a cinematic form of animation doesn't mean anime directors would rather be live action directors.
WTF is cinematic animation? I said anime directors are a poor mans movie director. They can't direct movies so they try to make cartoons into movies. Because they don't have a good live action industry in nipland. So, they need to make Cartoons more adult which has backfired. That's why manglobe is out and anime like it doesn't make money.
>No. This is a myth.
Apparently not.
>>82825932
see
>>82825884
Also, throw out some more genres and let me show you how the US has them.
>>82825552
>Someone's never watched BatB.
So a single show is your evidence?
>How many anime movies are about cooking rats?
What?
>Sorry for having taste.
If you concede that you don't watch modern anime, why did you claim there are 10-30 moe shows a season?
>When you implied variety mattered to the quality of the medium.
Ok, and?
>>82825953
>WTF is cinematic animation? I said anime directors are a poor mans movie director. They can't direct movies so they try to make cartoons into movies. Because they don't have a good live action industry in nipland. So, they need to make Cartoons more adult which has backfired. That's why manglobe is out and anime like it doesn't make money.
Isn't this the equivalent of saying comic book writers do comics because they're aren't good enough to do anything else? Some comic writers write them because that's what they want to do, same with anime directors. Some ppl just wanna make anime,etc.
What genre isn't covered by western cartoons that's covered by Animu? Post one and I'll concede.
What it with /co/ and anime vs cartoons? /a/ doesnt have these kinda threads. And cant you guys enjoy both because i can, both have good and bad side.
>>82826053
>Isn't this the equivalent of saying comic book writers do comics because they're aren't good enough to do anything else? Some comic writers write them because that's what they want to do, same with anime directors. Some ppl just wanna make anime,etc.
That would be true if we were talking about modern comic writers.
>>82817371
From WV and it's easily my favorite show still.
>>82826072
I never got the hard on for anime, it's okay. But, alot of people seem to have raging boners for it.
>>82825704
Those are live action.
>>82825708
Ok since you're this obsessed, I just ran an AniDB search for shows that started between 2015-01-01 and 2015-12-31 and compared them against 2006. Results: 211 TV series in 2015, and 178 in 2006.
>Where?
It was a translated excerpt in Debating Otaku in Contemporary Japan.
>There's no correlation between the general publics attitude and Marketers attitude towards Otaku.
What is the benefit of associating a product or company with otaku if nobody likes otaku? Why does Hello Kitty want to associate itself with Monogatari? Why does a family restaurant want to associate itself with Love Live? Why does the government use OreImo to promote voter participation?
>who cares if yo haven't hard anything
But you just said:
>stop believing everything you hear from marketers
>Your opinion is irrelevant, you can barely post a source to anything you claim.
Holy shit, you're still talking about this? Why is the number of shows produced in 2006 THIS important to you?
>The graph I posted versus your spreadsheets. You really are slow.
What do they have to do with:
>Yes yes, and anything you don't like in Japan is just "baiting" and "pandering" because the world revolves around you.
>They can barely get the animation part right.
This is false.
>Nope, you've demonstrated that you really don't know anything.
I have demonstrated no such thing.
MAGA
>>82826072
>/a/ doesnt have these kinda threads
/a/ has extremely autistic users and mods and they hardly if ever reply to bait threads, and if they do, the mods quickly delete them.
What it with /co/ and anime vs cartoons? /a/ doesnt have these kinda threads. And cant you guys enjoy both because i can, both have good and bad side.
>>82826158
>Those are Live action.
>Implying there aren't animated versions of almost all of the things I listed.
>>82825718
I already said that I can't say for sure if it has covered ABSOLUTELY EVERY genre and subgenre. There are a lot of those.
>They're gimmicks.
They are their own genres whether you like it or not.
>Worse.
Some of them are bad, others are not.
>muh axiomatic assertion
Your opinion is irrelevant. It is a genre in Japan. Period.
>You do know labelling things doesn't make it more varied, right?
Where did I say this?
>sexualizing young children
I know of no anime where this has happened. Are you perhaps confusing anime characters with real people?
>And anime has a higher relative percentage of garbage.
It doesn't.
>You implying people would want shitty shows if there was an option not to while keeping the good ones?
There is no such option. That's the point.
>You have zero confidence in content creators and people being competent at what they do in general.
?
>Name a single harem, yaoi, or airsoft show with lasting, timeless quality.
Why those specific genres? Why airsoft?
>In terrible 'genres' no one cares about.
In nearly all genres.
>>82826158
>Ok since you're this obsessed, I just ran an AniDB search for shows that started between 2015-01-01 and 2015-12-31 and compared them against 2006. Results: 211 TV series in 2015, and 178 in 2006.
I just ran a search isn't proof faggot.
>It was a translated excerpt in Debating Otaku in Contemporary Japan.
Again, where? Link?
>What is the benefit of associating a product or company with otaku if nobody likes otaku? Why does Hello Kitty want to associate itself with Monogatari? Why does a family restaurant want to associate itself with Love Live? Why does the government use OreImo to promote voter participation?
There's no correlation between the two and there doesn't need to be because once again they are unrelated. At best you have a connection with mainstream stuff like Hello Kitty and Ota because they want Ota to spend money in other areas. This marketing wave doesn't want normal people to accept otaku, they want them to be otaku and take on their spending habits. Then spread into non-otaku areas.
>But you just said:
Where are you going to hear marketers outside Japan?
>Holy shit, you're still talking about this? Why is the number of shows produced in 2006 THIS important to you?
Because you claimed anime has diversified over the years. I'm claiming it hasn't, rather there was a small era where there was a bubble which popped in 06. That lead to alot of money because international fans were interested in anime. My chart shows the samething.
>What do they have to do with:
Why are you quoting yourself? Can't even follow a simple debate lol.
>This is false.
It is not.
>I have demonstrated no such thing.
You're so stoic. How big is your cock btw?
>>82826149
Well that is okey. But mostly people dont who hate anime doesnt understant that 4chan created was for it and it still is for weebs
>>82821147
A better example of AWESOME MUSIC
(none of these are full rips sadly, but you can still get an idea of what the type of music WE should be hearing on american cartoons)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-KR7trv_iU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uCiwVHSDkk&spfreload=10
Now from Doraemon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLeie-fl6Ew
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_VCSvtmLtY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWJcoWlkDgs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puZAgCjtFTU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-pgQ6Su1Vg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmjlWQn8mhI
>>82825803
Live action.
>>82825904
That doesn't mean comics and manga are the same thing.
>>82825953
I was not talking about a single artist, I was talking about the process of creating animation.
>We were discussing the differences between animation and film as mediums.
Avatar is very different than anime.
>The argument is that anime is garbage because the industry is comparable to a third world sweat shop and thus it cannot consistently produce good works.
This is not true.
>Anime fucking sucks.
No it doesn't.
>It does
It doesn't.
>WTF is cinematic animation?
Animation that is made according to the same principles as cinema (as opposed to cartoon animation).
> I said anime directors are a poor mans movie director. They can't direct movies so they try to make cartoons into movies
That's not how that works.
>So, they need to make Cartoons more adult which has backfired.
They don't make cartoons, but nevermind. How have these adult "cartoons" backfired?
>Apparently not.
It is.
>>82826382
>I was not talking about a single artist, I was talking about the process of creating animation.
You said animator as in singular as in one person.
>>82826382
>Avatar is very different than anime.
Okay...What does that have to do with Film vs animation which is why avatar was brought up? You've lost track of the discussion. Why am I not surprised.
>Animation that is made according to the same principles as cinema (as opposed to cartoon animation).
Principles such as...?
>That's not how that works.
...Okay, so, how does it work? You seem unable to explain anything. How old are you?
>They don't make cartoons, but nevermind. How have these adult "cartoons" backfired?
Because the market for Hollywood esque anime is dead. Those ultra violent Hollywood copycat ovas like Akira[ Ripped off Blade Runner] don't get made much anymore.
>>82826337
Please see.
>>82826382
>>82826209
To save /co/ we need more autism and more mods.
>>82826209
Well atleast /a/ mods can do something right. You guys can have off topic threads but on /a/ dont ever let have fun
>>82825980
Again, live action.
>>82826063
To be clear, this isn't just about ticking off a checklist, nor is this about things at least loosely fitting into certain genres. When I say that Western animation doesn't cover the same genres I don't mean that it doesn't feature them at all, in any capacity. If you assume that Futurama is scifi and therefore the same as Planetes, then it could be that Western animation covers all the same genres. But, again, that's not all there is to it.
>>82826245
I know there's an animated Star Wars series and I think a Star Trek one. What about it?
>>82826337
Stop doing this. I can read posts for myself.
>>82826472
>>82826382
>>82826349
>>82826258
>>82826158
>>82825953
>>82825932
>>82825718
>>82825708
>>82825699
>>82825568
>>82825489
>>82825471
>>82825372
>>82825341
>>82825254
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO7HY7Nz398
OMG SHUT UP!
>>82826561
>To be clear, this isn't just about ticking off a checklist, nor is this about things at least loosely fitting into certain genres. When I say that Western animation doesn't cover the same genres I don't mean that it doesn't feature them at all, in any capacity. If you assume that Futurama is scifi and therefore the same as Planetes, then it could be that Western animation covers all the same genres. But, again, that's not all there is to it.
So, then if it covers it. Why would you say it does not?
>>82826369
>I know there's an animated Star Wars series and I think a Star Trek one. What about it?
>What about it
SO WESTERNERS HAVE ANIMATED SCIFI AND CYBERPUNK YOU DOUCHE.
>>82826349
You can easily run the same search yourself. Nothing is stopping you.
>Again, where? Link?
It's a book.
>There's no correlation between the two and there doesn't need to be because once again they are unrelated.
What exactly do you think marketing and PR are for?
>This marketing wave doesn't want normal people to accept otaku, they want them to be otaku and take on their spending habits.
If they become otaku, that means they accept otaku.
>Where are you going to hear marketers outside Japan?
What?
>Because you claimed anime has diversified over the years.
I said it's never been more diverse than now, and as far as I can see that is indeed the case.
>Why are you quoting yourself?
Because that's what we were talking about.
>It is not.
It is.
>>82826633
>SO WESTERNERS HAVE ANIMATED SCIFI AND CYBERPUNK YOU DOUCHE.
Why are you typing in all caps?
Anyway, that guy is a genuine autist. His rebuttals can be summed up as nuh-uh.
>>82826674
>You can easily run the same search yourself. Nothing is stopping you.
Burden of proof
>It's a book.
Then cite it properly ya moron. What chapter and paragraph?
>>82826674
>What exactly do you think marketing and PR are for?
It doesn't apply here.
>>82826674
>If they become otaku, that means they accept otaku.
Who's they? The people who become otaku? Okay, what does that have to do with the general public?
>What?
The marketers you were babbling about. You said you didn't hear them. Where would you hear them outside japan?
>I said it's never been more diverse than now, and as far as I can see that is indeed the case.
Is that why studios that produce non generic shclock get shutdown [Manglobe] or the creators can't find work?
>Because that's what we were talking about.
No we weren't. You're fucking moron, Jesus Christ. Did your mother drop you on the head full force as a kid? The source I was talking about was in relation to your spreadsheets. What does that have to do with your one liner about the world revolving around me? you clearly forgot what we were discussing.
>It is.
Explains post like this, you forget the topic every five responses, lol. You have the memory of a goldfish.
>>82826369
What are you trying to say?
>>82826472
I was not talking about literally a single animator. Everyone knows perfectly well that commercial animation isn't done by a single person.
>Okay...What does that have to do with Film vs animation which is why avatar was brought up?
We're talking about anime.
>Principles such as...?
All of them that can be applied to animation in some way.
>...Okay, so, how does it work?
The anime and live action industries are separate from each other, and are two very different artforms. People don't just go: "Oh, I couldn't make it as a live action director. I guess I'll just start making anime now."
People also like anime and want to make anime. The fact that you don't like anime doesn't mean others don't.
>You seem unable to explain anything. How old are you?
Huh?
>Because the market for Hollywood esque anime is dead. Those ultra violent Hollywood copycat ovas like Akira[ Ripped off Blade Runner] don't get made much anymore.
Hollywood makes a lot of things.
Akira started publication just months after Blade Runner premiered in the US.
>>82826480
Do you have a mental illness?
>>82826613
Because of what I just explained in the post that you just quoted.
>>82826633
I already addressed this.
>>82826845
Again, you can easily run the same search yourself. It only takes a few minutes. So why don't you? Isn't it better than me posting a screenshot that could be doctored?
>Then cite it properly ya moron. What chapter and paragraph?
If you don't have the book then this information is useless to you, and I'm not going to bother looking it up in any case.
>It doesn't apply here.
...
What?
>Who's they? The people who become otaku? Okay, what does that have to do with the general public?
Uh... what?
>The marketers you were babbling about. You said you didn't hear them. Where would you hear them outside japan?
???
Seriously, what is going on here.
>Is that why studios that produce non generic shclock get shutdown [Manglobe] or the creators can't find work?
Manglobe didn't shut down because of that.
>No we weren't.
We were, though.
>you forget the topic every five responses
No I don't.
>>82826847
>I was not talking about literally a single animator. Everyone knows perfectly well that commercial animation isn't done by a single person.
Yes, you were you fucking liar. You said animator, if you mean't more then you should have said animator(s) i.e. the plural form.
>We're talking about anime.
And, I made a point about animation and live action. You forgot about it with your goldfish memory span.
>All of them that can be applied to animation in some way.
Such as...? Gimmie an example, you're just responding to respond at this point. It's fucking pathetic.
>The anime and live action industries are separate from each other, and are two very different artforms. People don't just go: "Oh, I couldn't make it as a live action director. I guess I'll just start making anime now."
WTF are you talking about? I said the industry is for wannabe live action directors. You yourself said they harp cinematic techniques, So, obviously they're getting influence from live action despite being different.
>Huh?
Damn you're dumb.
>Hollywood makes a lot of things.
Akira started publication just months after Blade Runner premiered in the US.
Yea, after the author saw Blade Runner he ran to make his own rip off. Just like Fist of the North Star ripped off Mad Max.
>>82826955
>Again, you can easily run the same search yourself. It only takes a few minutes. So why don't you? Isn't it better than me posting a screenshot that could be doctored?
Because the burden of proof is on you faggot.
>If you don't have the book then this information is useless to you, and I'm not going to bother looking it up in any case.
Who says I don't have the book? Cite it or concede faggot.
>Manglobe didn't shut down because of that.
It shut down because it didn't make money on more contrarian to Otaku taste anime it insisted on producing.
>No I don't.
Yeah, you do. I think you have downs desu. I mean look at your responses:
>What?
>???
>Seriously, what's going on here?
What a moron.
>>82826955
>>82826847
>>82826845
>>82827089
>>82826674
>>82826590
Guys, write a paper and submit it to your favorite publication.
Let the scientific community decide who's right.
>>82827089
"The artist" in the sentence doesn't literally refer to a single artist. And you know it doesn't. You're just picking a fight for no reason.
>And, I made a point about animation and live action.
And?
>Such as...?
Camera angles, camera movement, simulating a physical camera, focus/depth of field, framing and composition, lighting, sound design, silence, music, acting... all of these things are done the same way they are in cinema, more or less. Just about every visual and narrative technique that's been used in cinema has also at some point been used in anime.
The fact that I have to explain this at least shows that you have no knowledge of anime.
>You yourself said they harp cinematic techniques
Which doesn't mean anime creators are wannabe live action directors.
>Damn you're dumb.
No, you are just not making any sense.
>Yea, after the author saw Blade Runner he ran to make his own rip off.
So he just happened to be in America at the time, saw the movie, and had the manga in publication a mere months later?
Yeah, no.
>>82827158
>Because the burden of proof is on you faggot.
Hahahaha. Whatever.
>Who says I don't have the book? Cite it or concede faggot.
If you have it then surely you've read it? Surely you can look at the table of contents?
Not only are you incapable of running a search on AniDB, but you're also incapable of finding a section in a book. I have to do everything because apparently I'm now your babysitter.
>It shut down because it didn't make money on more contrarian to Otaku taste anime it insisted on producing.
Other studios are making that kind of anime too and I don't see them shutting down.
>Yeah, you do
No I don't.
>I mean look at your responses:
That's just you babbling complete nonsense and leaving me bewildered.
>What a moron.
Yes you are.
>>82827353
>"The artist" in the sentence doesn't literally refer to a single artist. And you know it doesn't. You're just picking a fight for no reason.
The singular use of artist doesn't mean singular artist? WTF kind of inane bullshit are you pulling. You said artist in it's singular form, The End.
>Camera angles, camera movement, simulating a physical camera, focus/depth of field, framing and composition, lighting, sound design, silence, music, acting... all of these things are done the same way they are in cinema, more or less. Just about every visual and narrative technique that's been used in cinema has also at some point been used in anime.
LMFAO
You just proved my point then. You said animation and live action are worlds apart then you yourself post proof that they are super close? lol
>The fact that I have to explain this at least shows that you have no knowledge of anime.
See above, you just refuted yourself lol.
>Which doesn't mean anime creators are wannabe live action directors.
Yet, they keep harping live action content and techniques?
>No, you are just not making any sense.
Cause you're a fucking moron.
>So he just happened to be in America at the time, saw the movie, and had the manga in publication a mere months later?
Yeah, no.
How hard is it to see a fucking american movie? Keep cucking fagrag.
>>82827353
>Hahahaha. Whatever.
Concession accepted
>If you have it then surely you've read it? Surely you can look at the table of contents?
Burden of proof is on you.
>Not only are you incapable of running a search on AniDB, but you're also incapable of finding a section in a book. I have to do everything because apparently I'm now your babysitter.
Nope, it's because the burden of proof is on you.
>>82827353
>Other studios are making that kind of anime too and I don't see them shutting down.
You mean like Gonzo? Oh that's gone. What about I.G. they had to use Kickstarter and admitted it's hard t get funding for types of anime.
>That's just you babbling complete nonsense and leaving me bewildered.
Cause you're a fucking moron once more.
>Yes you are.
You can't even keep track of a debate.
>>82827464
Again, it does not literally refer to an actual individual artist. And again, you know it doesn't. Or are you saying you don't? Then do you have autism or something?
>You just proved my point then. You said animation and live action are worlds apart then you yourself post proof that they are super close? lol
Do you seriously not understand the difference between building and lighting a set, setting up a camera and shooting an actor, and animation? Are your for real here? You don't understand the difference? Really?
>See above, you just refuted yourself lol.
No I didn't.
>Yet, they keep harping live action content and techniques?
Which, again, doesn't mean anime creators are wannabe live action directors.
>Cause you're a fucking moron.
No, you are just not making any s ense.
>How hard is it to see a fucking american movie?
We're talking about the early 80s. Do you think he torrented a camrip or something?
>>82827552
>Concession accepted
Oh fuck off. You know perfectly well that you could easily run the search yourself and prove me wrong. Or is it that you know I'm right and don't want to run the search? You expect me to post a screenshot, and then you'll say I faked the screenshot. Crisis averted. Whew.
>Burden of proof is on you.
So you don't have the book.
>Nope, it's because the burden of proof is on you.
Hahahaha.
>You mean like Gonzo? Oh that's gone. What about I.G. they had to use Kickstarter and admitted it's hard t get funding for types of anime.
Shows like Erased, Shouwa Genroku, Perfect Insider, Death Parade, Psycho-Pass, Space Dandy and Joker Game are made all the time.
>Cause you're a fucking moron once more.
No, you were just babbling complete nonsense.
>You can't even keep track of a debate.
Yes I can.
>this thread
>>82827635
>Again, it does not literally refer to an actual individual artist. And again, you know it doesn't. Or are you saying you don't? Then do you have autism or something?
How does a singular form of a noun not refer to a singular noun. WTF kind of drugs do you take? Please kill yourself, pretty please with sugar on top.
>Do you seriously not understand the difference between building and lighting a set, setting up a camera and shooting an actor, and animation? Are your for real here? You don't understand the difference? Really?
You just said the exact same techniques are interchangeable. What other medium can you find such direct comparisons in techniques between them? You shot yourself in the foot and you're just backpedaling now.
>No I didn't.
You're just too stupid to realize it.
>Which, again, doesn't mean anime creators are wannabe live action directors.
Only if you're in denial. They copy holly woods ideas and direct animation as if it were film.
>No, you are just not making any s ense.
What's "s ense"? lol. Your fat fingers must be giving you problems when you type.
>>82827635
>We're talking about the early 80s. Do you think he torrented a camrip or something?
It's called an airplane. He could have flown to america and saw it. Which he most likely did.
>>82827751
>Oh fuck off. You know perfectly well that you could easily run the search yourself and prove me wrong. Or is it that you know I'm right and don't want to run the search? You expect me to post a screenshot, and then you'll say I faked the screenshot. Crisis averted. Whew.
I do, but the burden of proof is still not on me. :^)
>So you don't have the book.
Still need you to cite the page and chapter. Go ahead.
>Hahahaha.
Yes, were laughing at you.
>Shows like Erased, Shouwa Genroku, Perfect Insider, Death Parade, Psycho-Pass, Space Dandy and Joker Game are made all the time.
Watanabe anime and Noitanima is your argument? lol, Watanabe targets a general audience and internation fans same with Noitanima which has a mission statement of targetting general audience. Anime Chikara tried the samething and bombed, same with Manglobe and Gonzo. The fact that only a few niches in the industry target non-neck-beards prove the point.
>No, you were just babbling complete nonsense.
Cause you have shit for brains and can't follow a basic convo.
>>82827803
Again, it does not literally refer to an actual individual artist.
>You just said the exact same techniques are interchangeable.
Oh my God. This is real. You actually don't know how live action filmmaking and animated filmmaking differ. This is actually happening.
>You're just too stupid to realize it.
I didn't refute myself.
>Only if you're in denial.
I'm not.
>They copy holly woods ideas and direct animation as if it were film.
Cinema is not the sole property of Hollywood, and the fact that they direct animation as if it were film does not mean they are wannabe live action film directors.
>What's "s ense"? lol. Your fat fingers must be giving you problems when you type.
You're so desperate that you're trying to use a typo against me? Holy shit.
>It's called an airplane. He could have flown to america and saw it. Which he most likely did.
Mr. Occam's Razor says similarities between Blade Runner and Akira are coincidental or that both works are drawing from the same sources. Blade Runner wasn't born in a vacuum.
>>82827936
>I do, but the burden of proof is still not on me. :^)
You know I'm right and that's why you refuse to run the search. You want me to post evidence so you can claim the evidence is fake.
This embarrasing situation could have been averted if you weren't so psychotically obsessed with the notion that anime production peaked in 2006.
>Still need you to cite the page and chapter. Go ahead.
So you do have the book? Then just read Okada's sections. Problem solved.
>Yes, were laughing at you.
I was laughing at you.
>Watanabe anime and Noitanima is your argument?
What are you even trying to argue here? The shows don't count because they don't target otaku? But then you've also said that anime that doesn't cater to otaku can't be successful and will bankrupt people who try it. Uh...?
>Cause you have shit for brains and can't follow a basic convo.
No, you were just babbling complete nonsense.
>>82827937
>Again, it does not literally refer to an actual individual artist.
Say as many times as you want Singular noun is a singular artist, period. That's what you mean't.
>>82827937
>Oh my God. This is real. You actually don't know how live action filmmaking and animated filmmaking differ. This is actually happening.
"Hurr this is actually happening." So, you can't explain yourself and have to pretend you're arguing something self evident. Damn, you're a faggot. I mean I'd be pretty embarrassed if I refuted my own argument in one post too.
>I didn't refute myself.
First the two mediums are far apart now they're not and many similar techniques can crossover lol.
>Cinema is not the sole property of Hollywood, and the fact that they direct animation as if it were film does not mean they are wannabe live action film directors.
The fact that they try to ape another medium is not proof that they're aping another medium?
>You're so desperate that you're trying to use a typo against me? Holy shit.
Desperate for what? You refuted yourself and can't even post sources. You're done here mate.
>Mr. Occam's Razor says similarities between Blade Runner and Akira are coincidental or that both works are drawing from the same sources. Blade Runner wasn't born in a vacuum.
Occams Razor is only valid in the absence of evidence. There's clear evidence he ripped off Blade Runner. :^)
>>82814041
>mfw I like both but I like western animation a little bit more
>>82828043
>You know I'm right and that's why you refuse to run the search. You want me to post evidence so you can claim the evidence is fake.
>This embarrasing situation could have been averted if you weren't so psychotically obsessed with the notion that anime production peaked in 2006.
Prove it and post proof then...Oh wait, you can't lol.
>So you do have the book? Then just read Okada's sections. Problem solved.
Cite the section. Problem solved.
>I was laughing at you.
I'm laughing at you too and so is your family. God, you're a loser.
>What are you even trying to argue here? The shows don't count because they don't target otaku? But then you've also said that anime that doesn't cater to otaku can't be successful and will bankrupt people who try it. Uh...?
Which one of those shows are successful? Post sales.
>No, you were just babbling complete nonsense.
That would be you sugar.
>>82828182
Not same anon, Psycho Pass was definitely successful, I don't have sales charts doe :(.
>>82828097
No, that's not what I meant. Again, it does not literally refer to an actual individual artist.
>So, you can't explain yourself and have to pretend you're arguing something self evident.
Holy fucking shit. I mean goddamn. Even by 4chan standards this is too much. I know a lot of people are clueless about animation and filmmaking and whatnot but not understanding how shooting a film differs from creating animation is some next level shit. We've reached peak 4chan.
>First the two mediums are far apart now they're not and many similar techniques can crossover lol.
These are not mutually exclusive.
>The fact that they try to ape another medium is not proof that they're aping another medium?
The fact that they using cinematic techniques doesn't mean they want to be live action filmmakers.
>You refuted yourself and can't even post source
The source is right there, but you just refuse to look at it.
>There's clear evidence he ripped off Blade Runner. :^)
What is this evidence then?
>>82828182
If I did, you would claim the screenshot is doctored. That's your whole strategy here.
>Cite the section. Problem solved.
So you don't have the book?
>God, you're a loser.
Projection.
>Which one of those shows are successful? Post sales.
They keep getting made.
>That would be you sugar.
No, you.
>>82828321
>No, that's not what I meant. Again, it does not literally refer to an actual individual artist.
That is what you said, though. Singular refers to singular not plural. If you wanted a plural then you should've used it.
>Holy fucking shit. I mean goddamn. Even by 4chan standards this is too much. I know a lot of people are clueless about animation and filmmaking and whatnot but not understanding how shooting a film differs from creating animation is some next level shit. We've reached peak 4chan.
Right, because the mediums are so similar there are hardly any differences. you yourself admitted this
>These are not mutually exclusive.
You mean inclusive, mutually inclusive. No, they're not mutually exclusive seeing how they're so similar.
>The fact that they using cinematic techniques doesn't mean they want to be live action filmmakers.
Sure it doesn't, along with ripping off movies and trying to make hollywood films lol.
>The source is right there, but you just refuse to look at it.
I won't look until you post it because the burden of proof is not on me.
>What is this evidence then?
Blade runner release date in Japan:
July 3, 1982
Akira Release date in Japan
December 6, 1982
It was out in Japan before Akira. So, the argument that he needed to go to america is debunked:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083658/releaseinfo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akira_(manga)
Every fucking time we have the same fucking topic.
Every fucking time the same faggots come in to argue about the same shit.
Why.
>>82828578
I dont think have tried to make hollywood movies ever.
>>82828321
>If I did, you would claim the screenshot is doctored. That's your whole strategy here.
I said source, not picture. That's why I asked you to cite shit.
>So you don't have the book?
I'll open it as soon as you cite it.
>Projection.
You are, though. You're scared of citing something because you're paranoid about me claiming it's doctored, dafug?
>They keep getting made.
Faulty logic, that's like saying bad movies are successful since they keep making them lol.
>No, you.
Nice retort faggot.
>>82814041
I prefer western animation overall because a lot of anime is terribly animated (and before you fucking nerds go off about "SUH-SAKUGA", a few well-animated seconds here and there doesn't save most of it from looking like liquid shit), but it's very subjective overall.
>>82818915
Difference is that butter is objectively better than margarine. Not so here.
>>82828657
80's anime was saturated with shitty 80's hollywood clones.
>>82828578
Again, it does not literally refer to an actual individual artist.
>Right, because the mediums are so similar there are hardly any differences. you yourself admitted this
Ok, explain to me how filming an actor running down the street is the same thing as animating the same scene. I'll wait.
>You mean inclusive, mutually inclusive.
No, I mean mutually exclusive. Being different and using the same techniques are not mutually exclusive.
>Sure it doesn't, along with ripping off movies and trying to make hollywood films lol.
They aren't ripping off anything and Hollywood doesn't own movies.
>I won't look until you post it because the burden of proof is not on me.
You'll just accuse me of doctoring the screenshot.
>Blade runner release date in Japan:
That's very surprising. Movies don't normally get Japanese releases anywhere near that fast. However, it doesn't actually change anything considering there's only a few months between that and the publication of the manga. He would have needed to come up with the characters and story, draw enough of the manga to get it going, and get it approved by his publisher and actually published. Even supposing that he wanted to "rip off" Blade Runner, why do it in such a hurry?
>>82828684
The source is AniDB's search.
>I'll open it as soon as you cite it.
If you have it then it's trivially easy for you to look up his segments.
>You are, though.
I'm not, though.
>You're scared of citing something
You're scared of running a simple search because you're paranoid about me being right, dafug?
>Faulty logic
If making "non-otaku" anime is a financial black hole that leads studios to their deaths, why do those shows keep getting made every season? And why do you even assume studios are the ones taking the heat when they're simply acting as contractors (assuming they don't botch the job)?
>Nice retort faggot.
I just love it when people make some childish remark and then get offended when someone responds with "no you."
>>82828746
What's the use of having more frames of animation when those frames look terrible (along with everything else) and don't even amount to anything interesting? Is Western animation still at the stage of evolution where simply having animation of any kind is considered marvelous?
>>82828920
>Again, it does not literally refer to an actual individual artist.
How does a singular noun not refer to a singular person place or thing?
>Ok, explain to me how filming an actor running down the street is the same thing as animating the same scene. I'll wait.
You could film the same scene with rotoscope and animate it Or you could use a mocap and create an animated character running down the street. Both cases, the actual shot is the same.
>No, I mean mutually exclusive. Being different and using the same techniques are not mutually exclusive.
You can use the same techniques and be the same as well. There's hardly a difference.
>They aren't ripping off anything and Hollywood doesn't own movies.
Except for everything. You just listed all the techniques they copy and now I listed the content.
>You'll just accuse me of doctoring the screenshot.
No, I wouldn't and if it's from an authoritive site it would not matter if I did. You're cute, you know that? I genuinely want to fuck you.
>That's very surprising. Movies don't normally get Japanese releases anywhere near that fast. However, it doesn't actually change anything considering there's only a few months between that and the publication of the manga. He would have needed to come up with the characters and story, draw enough of the manga to get it going, and get it approved by his publisher and actually published. Even supposing that he wanted to "rip off" Blade Runner, why do it in such a hurry?
He wouldn't need much time if he's just plagiarizing. They why is irrelevant, there's proof he copied. The End.
Cartoons are kiddie shit
There are no action cartoons with REAL violence because cartoons are for children.
>>82828754
But were they atleast good? Dirty Pair was. I miss times when male MC werent complete faggots.
>>82819997
>half
>15 out of 19 are porn based
>mfw I realize that anime is the western equivalent of furry
>>82828920
>The source is AniDB's search.
Authoritative source?
>If you have it then it's trivially easy for you to look up his segments.
I can't do it. Cite it for me, burdens on you as well.
>You're scared of running a simple search because you're paranoid about me being right, dafug?
Nah, it's genuinely on you to search.
>If making "non-otaku" anime is a financial black hole that leads studios to their deaths, why do those shows keep getting made every season? And why do you even assume studios are the ones taking the heat when they're simply acting as contractors (assuming they don't botch the job)?
Many of them are adaptations from manga which is more creatively stable than anime. How many anime originals are high art type content from what you listed?
>>82828920
>I just love it when people make some childish remark and then get offended when someone responds with "no you."
You've been on the "No you" tangent since the onset. Calling you a faggot hasn't stopped me from posting sources which you refuse to do.
Both are good and bath in different way. But i do still watch more anime because there is things in anime what cartoons dont.
>>82829029
You mean actual animation in contrast to poorly animated but detailed stills?
>>82829314
But is it really wrong?
>>82829176
I was not literally referring to an actual individual artist. I believe I've told you this a few times now.
>You could film the same scene with rotoscope and animate it
Anime uses rotoscoping once in a blue moon.
>Or you could use a mocap and create an animated character running down the street.
3DCG anime are a rarity.
OBVIOUSLY we are talking about hand-drawn anime here. And even in your examples it's still not the same thing as shooting the scene with a camera.
>You can use the same techniques and be the same as well.
But they aren't the same.
>Except for everything. You just listed all the techniques they copy and now I listed the content.
That doesn't mean they're ripping anyone off. Unless of course you are willing to concede that virtually every filmmaker in the history of filmmaking has ripped people off, in which case there's no reason to single out anime.
>No, I wouldn't and if it's from an authoritive site it would not matter if I did.
Yes you would, and it doesn't matter what the site is since we're talking about faking screenshots.
>You're cute, you know that? I genuinely want to fuck you.
You should ask your psychiatrist to increase the dosage of whatever it is you're hopefully on.
>He wouldn't need much time if he's just plagiarizing.
So because he was supposedly copying the aesthetic of Blade Runner, you think he could do all that I just said in just a few months?
No.
I don't even know what it is you think he was copying, I'm just humoring you.
>They why is irrelevant, there's proof he copied.
What is this proof?
>>82829362
Well i still like anime even when it is like that. I just get enjoy cartoons anymore, only cartoon i cared was gumball because it was actually good.
>>82829317
AniDB is not an "authority," it's a database.
>I can't do it. Cite it for me, burdens on you as well.
So you don't have the book?
>Nah, it's genuinely on you to search.
I already did.
>Many of them are adaptations from manga which is more creatively stable than anime.
And?
>How many anime originals are high art type content from what you listed?
Huh?
>You've been on the "No you" tangent since the onset.
You've been on the childish remark tangent since the onset.
>Calling you a faggot hasn't stopped me from posting sources which you refuse to do.
I've given you the source many times.
>>82829362
It's not poor animation, it's limited animation. And no, those are not the same thing.
What's the use of having "actual animation" when it looks like shit?
>>82829402
>I was not literally referring to an actual individual artist. I believe I've told you this a few times now.
You know for some odd reason. Despite you making a critical mistake, I'm supposed to just believe you?
>3DCG anime are a rarity.
OBVIOUSLY we are talking about hand-drawn anime here. And even in your examples it's still not the same thing as shooting the scene with a camera.
You said animation and that point was about animation. Both those techniques involve shooting with a camera. But, even without them animation is taking shots with a camera but frame by frame.
>But they aren't the same.
I said the difference is marginal not that they are the same.
>That doesn't mean they're ripping anyone off. Unless of course you are willing to concede that virtually every filmmaker in the history of filmmaking has ripped people off, in which case there's no reason to single out anime.
Anime makes an industry of it, though. But, you're right. I can't fault anime alone for being uncreative. But, it is uncreative.
>Yes you would, and it doesn't matter what the site is since we're talking about faking screenshots.
You're the one that brought up fake screen shots. I said the spreadsheet is BS, and yet went wild on it.
>You should ask your psychiatrist to increase the dosage of whatever it is you're hopefully on.
Dude, I just want to pound you. I can't help it, you're so cute and sper serious. How big is your cock?
>>82829402
>So because he was supposedly copying the aesthetic of Blade Runner, you think he could do all that I just said in just a few months?
>No.
>I don't even know what it is you think he was copying, I'm just humoring you.
>What is this proof?
Neo Tokyo is a complete rip off of Neo LA. The proof is your eyes.
>>82829533
>AniDB is not an "authority," it's a database.
So, it's not authoritative, gotcha.
>So you don't have the book?
The pages won't turn until you cite it.
>And?
Your point is refuted.
>Huh?
How many of the "Good" anime you listed are anime originals? Not adaptations from better more creative industries like manga?
>You've been on the childish remark tangent since the onset.
Even down to the copying. I wanna finger you.
>I've given you the source many times.
You haven't cited them.
>>82829625
I made no mistake.
>You said animation and that point was about animation.
Again: OBVIOUSLY we are talking about hand-drawn anime here.
>But, even without them animation is taking shots with a camera but frame by frame.
A camera already takes shots frame by frame, and animating a scene is a very different process than shooting it with a camera. You really don't understand how animation works on even the most rudimentary level.
>I said the difference is marginal
It's not.
>Anime makes an industry of it, though.
And what does the film industry do? HMM.
>But, it is uncreative.
But it's not.
>You're the one that brought up fake screen shots.
Because that's exactly the card you're going to play if I post a screenshot.
>Dude, I just want to pound you. I can't help it, you're so cute and sper serious. How big is your cock?
How's that mental illness treating you?
>Neo Tokyo is a complete rip off of Neo LA.
How?
>>82829533
>What's the use of having "actual animation" when it looks like shit?
You mean like animu?
>>82829754
I just said it isn't. It's an anime database. Its purpose is to catalog every anime there is. Therefore I used to it to determine how many TV anime came out in 2006 vs. 2015.
>The pages won't turn until you cite it.
Oh you have it. Well then you should have no problem finding Okada's sections.
>Your point is refuted.
How?
>How many of the "Good" anime you listed are anime originals?
What does it matter?
>Even down to the copying. I wanna finger you.
How's that mental illness treating you?
>You haven't cited them.
AniDB.
>>82829806
Sure. After all, this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GNPgAQ4SuA
looks so much more better than this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92cesUa9ORc
>>82829769
>I made no mistake.
You used a singular form. So, yeah you did.
>A camera already takes shots frame by frame,
I know, that' what I said.
>and animating a scene is a very different process than shooting it with a camera. You really don't understand how animation works on even the most rudimentary level.
So, there's one degree of separation. Who cares? Animation itself is a camera trick and didn't exist until cameras came into exsistance just like film. The differences are shallow.
>It's not.
Both mediums came to exsistance around the sametime. One is a by product of the other [Animation is a camera trick that takes advantage of frames]. What real difference is there when compared to other mediums like: Literature and music for example. Animation and Film are much closer.
>And what does the film industry do? HMM.
It doesn't revolve around slave wages and cheap productions. Americans spend alot of money on media production.
>But it's not.
Sure is, copying Hollywood and Disney. No, quality animation too.
>Because that's exactly the card you're going to play if I post a screenshot.
You have no proof of that.
>How?
The giant overpass with the electric lights and holograms looks exactly the same as the on in Akira.
>>82829934
th-this has to be b8.
>>82829934
You're right, it does. The later has no real animation other than being a detailed image which is not animation.
Anime are cartoons
>>82829894
>I just said it isn't. It's an anime database. Its purpose is to catalog every anime there is. Therefore I used to it to determine how many TV anime came out in 2006 vs. 2015.
So, it's an unreliable source. Figures.
>Oh you have it. Well then you should have no problem finding Okada's sections.
Can 't find it. What page is it on and what paragraph?
>What does it matter?
Because it's much harder to get funding for an anime original. Especially, one that is different from the norm. Manga adaptation is easier.
>AniDB.
What about Okada's statement.
>How's that mental illness treating you?
Would you get an erection if a man touched your dick?
>>82829990
I was not literally referring to an actual individual artist.
>So, there's one degree of separation.
>The differences are shallow.
>What real difference is there when compared to other mediums
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/16157/
Every single little detail of her movement was drawn with a pen, frame by frame. All the movements down to the way her hair and bag move with her, how her clothes deform, and all the shading and lighting. Then they colored her and drew, rendered and composited the background and foreground elements.
Yeah, just like shooting with a camera.
>It doesn't revolve around slave wages and cheap productions.
You are completely, blatantly, totally changing the subject here. Holy shit.
>Sure is, copying Hollywood and Disney.
Hollywood doesn't own movies, and anime is nothing like Disney.
>You have no proof of that.
It's logically inevitable. If you honestly wanted to know the truth, you would run the search.
>The giant overpass with the electric lights and holograms looks exactly the same as the on in Akira.
So there's just a single alleged similarity. And what volume is it from?
>>82830017
I was obviously being sarcastic. Jesus christ.
>>82830022
Gross
I prefer anime as a whole, but cartoons generally can do more as I see. Both suffer from creative bankruptcy though. Anime has it's fanservice, shit art, garbage tier shows, and cartoons have their noodle armed, unfunny, obnoxious garbage. But again, I have to generally hand it to anime as some of my favorite western cartoons are ones that are inspired by eastern animation. When that's not the case then it's adult cartoons, and I generally don't like them on a basis of animation but humorWhich western cartoons excel at comparatively. Jesus christ do Japanese people ruin jokes sometimes, but I've had a good laugh with ones like Sakamoto, Cromartie, Azazel, and Nichijou
>>82814041
Americans do anime way better than japan ever could. Shame neither countries want to fund good anime.
>>82830022
So you didn't even watch either video. Cool.
>>82830039
Anime and cartoons are two different things.
>>82830092
Do you not understand what a database is? Or has Wikipedia fucked up your brain to the point where you can only think in terms of "sources" and are completely incapable of performing even the most rudimentary independent research?
If a researcher published something about this, he would also use a database of some sort.
>Can 't find it. What page is it on and what paragraph?
So you don't have the book?
>Because it's much harder to get funding for an anime original.
There are nine original half hour long shows running this season.
>What about Okada's statement.
Debating Otaku in Contemporary Japan.
>Would you get an erection if a man touched your dick?
How's that mental illness treating you?
>>82830306
>but cartoons generally can do more as I see
that's just plain wrong.
>>82829029
But it doesn't look like shit. It allows characters more expression and diversity of poses, thus making them more unique and distinguishable. A lot of anime characters move in exactly the same manner because the animation is so limited. Western characters are more expressive.
Only problem with western animation is that it can look a little weightless at times. This is partially due to CalArts not teaching people how to board properly and partially due to outsourcing to Korea.
>>82830249
>I was not literally referring to an actual individual artist.
Your intentions are irrelevant. You said singular, The End.
>>82830249
>Every single little detail of her movement was drawn with a pen, frame by frame. All the movements down to the way her hair and bag move with her, how her clothes deform, and all the shading and lighting. Then they colored her and drew, rendered and composited the background and foreground elements.
>Yeah, just like shooting with a camera
One Degree of Separation. Still relies on a camera and uses various film techniques.
>You are completely, blatantly, totally changing the subject here. Holy shit.
Still relevant.
>Hollywood doesn't own movies, and anime is nothing like Disney.
Minus the character designs which Tezuka borrowed from Disney and is still influencing anime.
>It's logically inevitable. If you honestly wanted to know the truth, you would run the search.
Don't talk about logic when you won't follow the logic of a debate. Burden of proof is on you, Go ahead.
>So there's just a single alleged similarity. And what volume is it from?
The entire City looks exactly the same. They even take place in the same year=2019.
>>82830306
>I prefer anime as a whole, but cartoons generally can do more as I see.
American shows barely do anything that isn't a children's cartoon or adult sitcom.
>Both suffer from creative bankruptcy though. Anime has it's fanservice, shit art, garbage tier shows, and cartoons have their noodle armed, unfunny, obnoxious garbage
Anime is not creatively bankrupt just because you are allergic to "fanservice."
>>82830315
Americans have never made anime.
>>82830334
>Do you not understand what a database is? Or has Wikipedia fucked up your brain to the point where you can only think in terms of "sources" and are completely incapable of performing even the most rudimentary independent research?
Sources aren't from wikipedia. Jesus Are you that uneducated that you don't know what a citation is?
>So you don't have the book?
I don't have to look until you cite it.
>There are nine original half hour long shows running this season.
Cite them :D
>Debating Otaku in Contemporary Japan.
Which chapter and paragraph?
>How's that mental illness treating you?
Can I touch yours?
>>82830334
>So you didn't even watch either video. Cool.
One was a detailed still the other was an actual animation. Anime sucks.
>>82830396
>But it doesn't look like shit.
Look at >>82829934
What is the value of having characters that are merely "distinguishable"?
>Only problem with western animation is that it can look a little weightless at times.
>only problem
I have bad news for you.
>>82830503
>merely "distinguishable"?
Might as well what the value is in having characters that merely have suberb animation.
>>82830397
I was not literally referring to an actual individual artist.
>One Degree of Separation.
Nonsense.
>Still relies on a camera and uses various film techniques.
It doesn't LITERALLY have a camera. The camera in anime is virtual. They don't open a portal to Anime World and take a camera there. For fuck's sake.
I'm the one who told you that anime uses film techniques, and now you're repeating it back to me like you're the one who came up with it.
>Still relevant.
No it isn't.
>Minus the character designs which Tezuka borrowed from Disney and is still influencing anime.
His designs didn't look exactly like Disney's, and even characters in the 70s looked very different from his early designs.
>Burden of proof is on you, Go ahead.
Run the search and see for yourself.
>The entire City looks exactly the same.
How? And at what point?
>>82830500
So, again, you didn't even watch either video. Cool.
>>82830559
Having characters that are distinguishable from each other is an extremely basic feature that shouldn't even need to be advertised as a feature.
>>82830356
Higher budget = more potential
I wasn't saying they DO more, but if they did it properly you could have some quality shit. Instead it's generally used on other aspects of the show rather than animation.
>>82830415
Sure but some of the childrens cartoons can work for young adults/adults aswell, just like certain shounens. There's also nothing wrong with adult sitcoms. Again, they're two different things at heart, so I wouldn't compare Archer to say Re:Zero, but I like them both and they're both animation.
>Anime is not creatively bankrupt just because you are allergic to "fanservice"
Oh yes it fucking is. Don't even. You run into the case of almost the entire season of animes being filled with shit that has little to no substance, but pure fanservice. Whether that's tits, cashing in on other series popularity, or kawaii uguu garbage, it exist, and it's just as creatively bankrupt as the latter US side. That being said there's nothing wrong with fanservice in some cases. Say an anime has sexy characters like in Space Dandy, but it's not the focus, and not in any way a steering device for the show. Now when it has entire minute long segments talking about tits, or episodes dedicated to nothing but fanservice/filler, then yes, it's garbage.
>>82830618
>I was not literally referring to an actual individual artist.
Your intentions are irrelevant. You said singular, The End.
>>82830618
>It doesn't LITERALLY have a camera. The camera in anime is virtual.
HHAAHAHAHAHA
Anime doesn't use cameras? LMFAO
>>82830618
>I'm the one who told you that anime uses film techniques, and now you're repeating it back to me like you're the one who came up with it.
Which is worst since you claimed the mediums are far apart. lol
>No it isn't.
Yes it is.
>His designs didn't look exactly like Disney's, and even characters in the 70s looked very different from his early designs.
So, it has to be 100% to be ripped off? lol
>Run the search and see for yourself.
Burden of proof is on you.
>How? And at what point?
At the point I just stated. Skylines are exactly the same.
>>82830704
American shows already use many times more money than anime. Disney's feature movies used even more, and didn't have the restrictions of television production. And yet their potential never amounted to much more than fairy tale musicals for children.
>Sure but some of the childrens cartoons can work for young adults/adults aswell, just like certain shounens.
An American children's show that's watchable for adults is very far removed from Psycho-Pass.
>You run into the case of almost the entire season of animes being filled with shit that has little to no substance, but pure fanservice.
Is that what you heard on the Internet?
>>82830663
>Having characters that are distinguishable from each other is an extremely basic feature that shouldn't even need to be advertised as a feature.
Yet, anime can barely pull it off.
>>82817096
That Arthur spin-off "Postcards from Buster" was cancelled because of an episode where he met a girl with lesbian parents.
>>82830334
Anime is a style of cartoon. You are objectively wrong on that front.
>>82830503
It's INCREDIBLY important. Are you retarded? Several of the 12 basic principles of animation are centered entirely around making characters distinguishable. The entire purpose of animation is to create a series of character drawings that blur together into something that expresses not only movement but the character's traits themselves visually, much like a physical actor would in the real world. Giving each character unique ways of moving makes each character more immediately relatable, creates contrast between the other characters, and sticks in the minds of the viewer more readily. If you have to ask why that matters, you simply don't understand animation.
Family Guy is shit because it's shit, not because it's western. Furthermore, the show you linked has a much higher budget. There's some solid TV animation there, for sure, but there are some limited bits in it as well, and the characters are not particularly expressive. And like it or not, more people are going to remember Peter Griffin than that generic fuckdoll main character. There's only one character that moves and poses like Peter Griffin, while I can name several that move and pose like Miss Fuckdoll.
>>82830819. And yet their potential never amounted to much more than fairy tale musicals for children.
...Because they were intended to be for children. How is that not fulfilling their potential?
>>82830746
I was not literally referring to an actual individual artist.
>Anime doesn't use cameras? LMFAO
No it doesn't you colossal retard. The camera is VIRTUAL. Imaginary. They don't travel to Dimension Anime with a camera. They imagine a scene from the viewpoint of a camera and draw it accordingly.
Jesus.
>Which is worst since you claimed the mediums are far apart. lol
They are.
>Yes it is.
No it isn't.
>So, it has to be 100% to be ripped off? lol
If being influenced by others is "ripping off" then virtually every artist is guilty of ripping off and therefore you have no grounds for singling out Tezuka.
>Burden of proof is on you.
I just gave you a simple means of discovering the proof and in a completely neutral fashion that I can't influence.
>At the point I just stated.
Which is what?
>Skylines are exactly the same.
How?
>>82830868
It can. It's nothing but a meme that anime characters look the same and can't be told apart.
>>82823126
I'm British and I love it. King of the Hill is just a good show.
>>82830663
Damn straight it is.
And it's something that modern anime almost never pulls off.
I don't know who
>y'all
are but this
>style of
posting
>died for
a reason
>>82821025
Michigan here. Me and several of my friends love it. We all agree that it starts out "...wut" and gets better the more you watch, though.
>>82830893
Anime is a style of animation. Cartoons are another style of animation. Anime and cartoons are subsets of animation.
>It's INCREDIBLY important.
It's incredibly basic and shouldn't even need to be brought up.
>Giving each character unique ways of moving makes each character more immediately relatable, creates contrast between the other characters, and sticks in the minds of the viewer more readily. If you have to ask why that matters, you simply don't understand animation.
Anime makes characters distinct and relatable through design, writing and voice acting. And we can see when we compare the character industries and fan cultures of America and Japan which approach has yielded better results.
>Family Guy is shit because it's shit, not because it's western. Furthermore, the show you linked has a much higher budget.
Family Guy reportedly costs $2,000,000 per episode. The average cost of anime was $150,000 in 2011. Even if Kabaneri is at the highest end of the scale, we're still only talking about like $200,000 or $300,000.
>the characters are not particularly expressive
I will never understand this meme.
>And like it or not, more people are going to remember Peter Griffin than that generic fuckdoll main character.
Family Guy has been running for years and is watched by many more people than Kabaneri. Also generic doesn't mean anything at all and that character is not a fuckdoll.
>Miss Fuckdoll.
You seem really upset.
>>82830918
It's not a meme, it's the truth. I've studied animation. The way they're animated is horribly samey.
>>82830905
We were talking about potential generally.
>>82830928
It pulls it off as a matter of routine. It sometimes happens that two characters look too much alike, but it's rare.
>>82830918
>I was not literally referring to an actual individual artist.
Your intentions are irrelevant. You said singular, The End.
>No it doesn't you colossal retard. The camera is VIRTUAL. Imaginary. They don't travel to Dimension Anime with a camera. They imagine a scene from the viewpoint of a camera and draw it accordingly.
You can create a setting with props and creating a setting doesn't have anything to do with what is recording your work.
>They are.
Clearly that is false since both are cinematic according to you lol
>If being influenced by others is "ripping off" then virtually every artist is guilty of ripping off and therefore you have no grounds for singling out Tezuka.
Influencing is not ripping off, ripping off is ripping off and Tezukas style is a rip off of disney.
>I just gave you a simple means of discovering the proof and in a completely neutral fashion that I can't influence.
I prefer you giving me the citation.
>Which is what?
See Below
>How?
The look visually the same, have the same megacity dystopian look and massive holographic billboards, plus it all take splace in the same year: 2019.
>>82831142
>We were talking about potential generally.
So, making something for what it's intended for is not reaching your potential?
>>82831142
>but it's rare.
The entire medium is filled with sameface. everyone dick riding Tezuka who dickrode Disney.
>>82825489
>DBZ and Naruto are masterpieces
Oh, please, the beginnings for those were great. Later, the shows are full of edgy characters that pull last second redemptions whatsoever. Also, that is one of the biggest cliche in animes today, get away with EVERY consequence if you are good looking or popular. Other media productions also have this, but animes milk this cliche to the extreme.
>>82823304
Only thing I hate about living here is driving to other cities. I don't measure things in distance anymore, just time. Like it takes me 6 hours to drive to Dallas and 2 to get to Houston or San Antonio.
kill la thread
>>82819156
>almost all of those are porn
>two of them are basically CP
>the rest are just variants of the action genre
You're trying to defend anime right?
>>82831114
It is a meme and not the truth. You allegedly having studied animation doesn't mean shit, especially considering what passes for animation education in the West.
>>82831143
I was not literally referring to an actual individual artist.
>You can create a setting with props and creating a setting doesn't have anything to do with what is recording your work.
Nothing is recording anime. It's all drawn picture by picture. The camera is not real.
>Clearly that is false since both are cinematic according to you lol
And also very different from each other.
>Influencing is not ripping off, ripping off is ripping off and Tezukas style is a rip off of disney.
So everyone is ripping off and therefore Tezuka cannot be singled out.
>I prefer you giving me the citation.
The citation is AniDB.
>The look visually the same, have the same megacity dystopian look and massive holographic billboards
How?
>>82831233
Sameface is a meme.
>>82831274
The only porn listed there are hentai and yaoi, and yaoi is kind of redundant because hentai already encompasses it.
There's no CP listed anywhere.
>the rest are just variants of the action genre
How is romance a variant of action?
After skimming through all this it seems like the general consensus is that anime usually has better quality animation with lack luster writing while western cartoons have more effort put into writing and significantly less put into animation.
So how about this:
Anime fans: post an anime that is currently running that you think exemplifies great writing
Western fans: post a cartoon that is currently running that has great animation
It has to be current, can be in between seasons but is something that is still running, so you can't rest on the laurels of old classics. It has to be something happening right now that is quality in the ways your genre is known to suffer
and we shall see who is superior
>>82830819
Psycho-Pass is an adult anime you dweeb. It's Seinen, not Shounen, so get the fuck out of here with that comparison. I would of accepted, say, Hunter x Hunter, as it is very Shounen orientated, yet the later half of it definitely peaks in horrific shit.
No, something more comparable would be like Naruto, DBZ, or Fairy Tail, where while the content can get brutal at points, it still stays pretty kid friendly.
I would say it's kind of how Europe treats children compared to the US. These shows kind of coddle them with their themes instead of going full out, and when they actually start to go full out, like Avatar, then they either get slated or censored by studios. But the ones that try, even if its little by little, can be entertaining for adults too. To say they're not is pure opinion (much like any of this discussion) and plenty of successful young adults are into it. If they weren't they wouldn't bother catering to them at all.
>Is that what you heard on the Internet
My statement may be a bit extreme, but it still stands. You get seasons where the most talked about animes are garbage. Or a more than necessary portion of the season is Valkyrie Drive. It's not an epidemic, but if demand grows then that will be the end outcome.
>>82831279
>I was not literally referring to an actual individual artist.
Your intentions are irrelevant. You said singular, The End.
>Nothing is recording anime. It's all drawn picture by picture. The camera is not real.
Hahahaha. So, how is it filmed? Magic? lol
>>82831279
>And also very different from each other.
Because anime records using magic according to you.
>So everyone is ripping off and therefore Tezuka cannot be singled out.
Prove everyone is ripping from everyone else.
>The citation is AniDB.
Book citation from Okada.
>How?
How what?
They look visually the same, have the same megacity dystopian look and massive holographic billboards. Where's the how here?
>>82831388
Seeing as how American shows are comprised of almost nothing but episodic cartoons for children and adult sitcoms, how can they have better writing than anime which comprises nearly every genre, tells stories about almost anything in almost any way, and has writing contributed by many different freelancers, manga artists, novelists, light novelists and game writers?
>>82831466
Covering a genre tells us nothing about the quality of the writing.
>>82831407
>Psycho-Pass is an adult anime you dweeb.
No kidding. I sure didn't know that.
>It's Seinen, not Shounen, so get the fuck out of here with that comparison.
Who said anything about shounen?
>My statement may be a bit extreme, but it still stands.
Your statement is bullshit you just heard somewhere. You don't actually watch enough anime to know anything first hand.
>Or a more than necessary portion of the season is Valkyrie Drive.
Oh no, a single show.
>>82831427
I was not literally referring to an actual individual artist.
>Hahahaha. So, how is it filmed? Magic? lol
>Because anime records using magic according to you.
It isn't fucking filmed. There is no real camera. It's all drawn and painted and computer composited (or composited with a multiplanar camera in cel animation).
This is absurd.
>Prove everyone is ripping from everyone else.
You're the one who said they are.
>Book citation from Okada.
If you have the book then just look at the table of contents.
>They look visually the same
How?
>>82831554
The fact that so many people from so many different backgrounds are writing so many different stories for so many different people tells us that anime has better writing. Unless you'd care to argue that the Japanese people are inherently incapable of producing good writing.
>>82831105
It should be brought up because anime fails at it.
Anime's writing is often good, that cannot be denied. However, its animation often lets the writing down and fails to tell the stories properly. You'll never understand the "meme" because you're an obtuse weeaboo who will never understand proper animation technique. Look at the various character poses in that video you sent. Poor lines of action and bland symmetry everywhere.
>And we can see when we compare the character industries and fan cultures of America and Japan which approach has yielded better results.
...The result that has generated the most revenue, which are undoubtedly the western industry and the western fandom? And if we're talking fan cultures, anime fan culture, especially in the United States and Japan, is generally considered to be pretty fucking degenerate and awful. Meanwhile, it's a lot more socially acceptable to like shit like Disney movies.
Family Guy costs that much because of the voice actors. No way in hell do they spend that much just on animation alone. Plus, animators are hideously underpaid in Japan; the dollars go further for them.
Generic means a lot. There's nothing unique about her. She doesn't stand out from the crowd. She won't be remembered. Yes, Family Guy does have the advantage of going on longer, but it also had the advantage of memorable characters that left people calling out for more seasons.
But nah, it's just funny to mock shit you like. She's definitely both generic and a fuckdoll, though. She's the creator's sexual fantasies just spilled out on the page. I can see her appearing on a line of hug pillows. Maybe even one you'll purchase.
>>82831653
It doesn't tell us shit. Quantity does not mean quality.
>>82831582
>I was not literally referring to an actual individual artist.
>Your intentions are irrelevant. You said singular, The End.
>It isn't fucking filmed. There is no real camera. It's all drawn and painted and computer composited (or composited with a multiplanar camera in cel animation). This is absurd.
So, I guess the camera on my computer is not a camera because it's not a handheld or movie camera? God, you're dumb. Also, what about anime before the advent of computer animation, guess they're not anime too since they used "
Real" cameras?
>>82831582
>You're the one who said they are.
I said Tezuka not everyone ever, you're getting confused again.
>>82831582
>If you have the book then just look at the table of contents.
I won't look at the book until you tell me the citation.
>>82831582
>How?
How what?
They look visually the same, have the same megacity dystopian look and massive holographic billboards. Where's the how here?
>>82831279
>It is a meme and not the truth. You allegedly having studied animation doesn't mean shit, especially considering what passes for animation education in the West.
What do you know about animation, then? Tell me.
>>82831752
Classic animation wasn't "filmed" with cameras, per se. They were drawn on cells of film.
>>82831850
Every frame was recorded with a camera shot by shot.
>>82831689
>It should be brought up because anime fails at it.
I have no problem telling the characters apart.
>However, its animation often lets the writing down and fails to tell the stories properly.
It doesn't.
>ou'll never understand the "meme" because you're an obtuse weeaboo who will never understand proper animation technique.
Western animation is an absolute joke compared to anime. Even in its heyday, the only thing it really had over anime was smoothness, which is more a matter of time and priorities rather than ability.
>Look at the various character poses in that video you sent. Poor lines of action and bland symmetry everywhere.
I've noticed that apologists of Western animation very often like to talk about technical principles like this ("silhouettes," "squash and stretch" etc.) even as Western animation fails to produce results. It's book smarts vs. actually knowing how to do things and getting them done.
>...The result that has generated the most revenue, which are undoubtedly the western industry and the western fandom?
I am referring to doujin and moe culture and figures.
>And if we're talking fan cultures, anime fan culture, especially in the United States and Japan, is generally considered to be pretty fucking degenerate and awful.
Fan culture in Japan is very creative and talented.
This is all self-published fan animation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLJxhZ2Dhag
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ctujLIA8kU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9sWa7n8dsY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEcNu15_Nug
There are literally no good cartoons about people with superpowers or fighting abilities. They are never even taken seriously as entertainment.
>>82831905
Yes. By running the already-painted film through the camera, though, not on the other side of the lens.
Modern animation is not recorded by a camera, though. It's drawn on a computer and then composited together through various computer programs. Cameras are obsolete.
>>82831689
>Family Guy costs that much because of the voice actors.
Doesn't matter. They're pissing away $2,000,000 per episode and it still looks awful.
>Plus, animators are hideously underpaid in Japan; the dollars go further for them.
American productions overspend and have nothing to show for it.
>Generic means a lot.
No. It's the #1 go-to buzzword for criticizing literally anything related to anime, no matter what it is. It never means anything.
>There's nothing unique about her. She doesn't stand out from the crowd. She won't be remembered.
She has a clearly distinct design.
>She's definitely both generic and a fuckdoll, though.
Generic means nothing and she isn't a fuckdoll.
>She's the creator's sexual fantasies just spilled out on the page.
Projection.
>>82831739
Quantity in this case gives rise to quality. American shows aren't even TRYING to do half the things anime does all the time.
>>82831582
>Who said anything about shounen
Holy fuck, you don't read. My hole comparison for children cartoons was ONLY on shounen, I even explicitly said it when I brought it up. Again, adult anime goes into a whole different field, and that comes in terms with what the audience wants. A US audience favors comedy, hence a shit ton of comedy adult cartoons, while a japanese audience may prefer action/sex. I'ts not rocket science.
>Your statement is bullshit you just heard somewhere
I'm currently watching Re:Zero, Sakamoto Desu ga, Iron Fortress, Hero Academy, Ushio no tora, JoJo, Kiznaiver, Luluco, Kuma Miko, Big Order, and I was watching Flying witches. I probably watch more anime than you but that doesn't really fucking matter.
Point is, when I watch something like Big Order, I can take the fanservice here and there, but when there's an entire bath house scene wasting 4 minutes of rocket titted rock bitch going around molesting the other women then it gets kind of stupid, and it happens WAY too often in shows. Whether it's miniscule or not, it doesn't fucking belong most of the time, and it's just a waste of time. It's not adult theming, it's literally just wank garbage.
Also I don't have to spout a million for you to get the fucking point either, so don't act like there's literally only one that does it. You know this shit happens all the time.
>>82831752
I was not literally referring to an actual individual artist.
>So, I guess the camera on my computer is not a camera because it's not a handheld or movie camera?
What the hell are you talking about?
>Also, what about anime before the advent of computer animation, guess they're not anime too since they used "
Real" cameras?
They didn't use real cameras. There is no real camera in anime. It's a virtual camera. The creators imagine scenes through the perspective of a camera and then draw the scenes. Holy shit there is something wrong with you brain.
>I said Tezuka not everyone ever, you're getting confused again.
But by your logic you are talking about everyone. If Tezuka is ripping off because he took influence, everyone is ripping off.
>I won't look at the book until you tell me the citation.
So you don't have the book.
>They look visually the same
How?
>>82831791
What does that have to do with anything? That isn't even a valid question considering how ridiculously open-ended it is.
>>82832050
It's still a recording. The minutia doesn't change that, both Animation and Film are dependent on the ability to record images. I didn't say they are the same and indistinguishable. But, compared to other mediums they are closer.
>>82814041
Yeah the one that still exists.
>>82832131
You said something about how some children's shows are also watched by adults. I pointed out that this is far-removed from an actual adult show like Psycho-Pass.
>A US audience favors comedy, hence a shit ton of comedy adult cartoons, while a japanese audience may prefer action/sex.
There's a ton of comedy anime, and sex happens like once in a blue moon if even that.
>I'm currently watching...
Then why are you lying about what modern anime is like?
>I probably watch more anime than you but that doesn't really fucking matter.
I'm watching over 20 shows this season.
>You know this shit happens all the time.
You are exaggerating the issue.
>>82832159
>I was not literally referring to an actual individual artist.
Your intentions are irrelevant. You said singular, The End
>What the hell are you talking about?
You're just dumb. A recording device is a camera, doesn't matter if it's on a computer. Why did you bring up computer as if it made a difference?
>>82832159
>Real" cameras?
>They didn't use real cameras. There is no real camera in anime. It's a virtual camera. The creators imagine scenes through the perspective of a camera and then draw the scenes. Holy shit there is something wrong with you brain.
I never said real cameras, I said camera. Real cameras is our implication , because you seem to think cameras on computers don't count.
>>82832159
>But by your logic you are talking about everyone. If Tezuka is ripping off because he took influence, everyone is ripping off.
By what logic? I said he ripped off, I didn't say it's because he took influences. Taking influence =/= ripping off.
>So you don't have the book.
I won't look at the book until you tell me the citation.
>>82832159
>How?
How what?
They look visually the same, have the same megacity dystopian look and massive holographic billboards. Where's the how here?
>>82832045
Your debate skills are horrifically shit. "ur rong" and "it doesn't" are not responses. You want to be taken seriously? Prove me wrong.
>Western animation is an absolute joke compared to anime. Even in its heyday, the only thing it really had over anime was smoothness, which is more a matter of time and priorities rather than ability.
You're not explaining how it's a joke. It really isn't. In its heyday, it was more commercially successful than anime... much like it is now. It was also more technically proficient than anime... much like it is now.
>I've noticed that apologists of Western animation very often like to talk about technical principles like this ("silhouettes," "squash and stretch" etc.) even as Western animation fails to produce results. It's book smarts vs. actually knowing how to do things and getting them done.
Because anime fails at the technical properties. As anime fandom continues to shrink in the west and in the east, it would be wise of them to actually fucking take note of how to animate properly.
Modern western animation produces great results in terms of industry. Artistically, it's hit or miss because of the perception of 2D animation being for kids. CGI has broken out of that ghetto and is considered cooler and more attractive, but 2D animation is unfortunately not very profitable because of the stigma and because the late 90s over-saturation killed the industry.
>I am referring to doujin and moe culture and figures.
That shit is terrible and largely mocked in the west for damn good reason.
You're basically arguing only on "MUH FEE FEES" instead of presenting actual evidence. Those animations suck btw.
>>82832048
Really? B:TAS and Avatar: The Last Airbender are better received than most anime in the west.
Honestly, would the Japanese ever think to draw an entire show on black paper a la B: TAS? No. Because most people who work on anime are not innovators and have not been innovators for a long time.
>>82832358
I was not literally referring to an actual individual artist.
>A recording device is a camera, doesn't matter if it's on a computer. Why did you bring up computer as if it made a difference?
>I never said real cameras, I said camera. Real cameras is our implication , because you seem to think cameras on computers don't count.
What the hell is even happening here? What are you talking about?
>I said he ripped off
Then so did everyone else.
>I won't look at the book until you tell me the citation.
So you don't have it.
>They look visually the same
How?
(It's hilarious how you can't answer this question.)
>>82832159
>What does that have to do with anything?
What does your knowledge about animation have to do with an animation topic? Geez, I wonder.
>>82831380
>what is lolicon and shotacon
>>82832081
>Quantity in this case gives rise to quality.
Clearly not.
>She has a clearly distinct design.
Clearly not. She looks like many, many other anime female leads and you're blind if you can't see it.
>American shows aren't even TRYING to do half the things anime does all the time.
This is due to problems within the industry. Shows try it, network sours on them, they get cancelled.
Again, all you're doing is spouting out absolutes and calling them objective facts with no facts to back it up. It's all subjective bullshit. Guess that's all anime fans have to cling to in the face of the slow death of their favorite art form.
>>82832463
>>82832463
>I was not literally referring to an actual individual artist.
Your intentions are irrelevant. You said singular, The End
>>82832463
>What the hell is even happening here? What are you talking about?
I had to explain to you how a camera works.
>>82832463
>Then so did everyone else.
Based on what?
>>82832463
>So you don't have it.
I won't look at it until you cite.
>>82832463
>How?
They look visually the same, have the same megacity dystopian look and massive holographic billboards. Where's the how here?
>>82832463
>(It's hilarious how you can't answer this question.)
(It's hilarious how you're in a corner now)
>>82832159
>What does that have to do with anything? That isn't even a valid question considering how ridiculously open-ended it is.
You said that me having studied animation doesn't mean shit and then called western education shit. So, tell me, what do you know that I don't and that they don't?
Let's start simple: What do you know about the 12 basic principles of animation?
>>82832168
So, you're using unclear terminology and rationalizations to hastily justify your fuckup.
Nice.
>>82832377
>You want to be taken seriously? Prove me wrong.
Prove what wrong?
>You're not explaining how it's a joke.
See the Family Guy vs. Kabaneri comparison. Or have another one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_5AKpN5T0Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU_uEdrrhXM
> In its heyday, it was more commercially successful than anime
I'm not talking about commercial success.
>It was also more technically proficient than anime... much like it is now.
More frames doesn't mean more technical proficiency.
>Because anime fails at the technical properties.
According to your useless book knowledge.
>As anime fandom continues to shrink in the west and in the east, it would be wise of them to actually fucking take note of how to animate properly.
They're already the best at it.
>That shit is terrible and largely mocked in the west for damn good reason.
Your opinion of it is irrelevant. The point is the amount and depth of dedication anime characters inspire in people.
>Those animations suck btw.
They're better than basically anything produced in the West, despite being self-published fan animation.
>most people who work on anime are not innovators and have not been innovators for a long time
Yeah, they aren't innovative at all because they haven't done a single thing that a Western animation has done. Sure.
>>82832681
There's no fuck up.
>>82832487
What does it have to do with the specific topic we were talking about?
>>82832530
Not CP. Seeing as how they don't involve children. They also aren't necessarily porn. The currently airing show Shounen Maid could be considered shotacon but there's not even fanservice in it.
>>82832531
Clearly it does.
>Clearly not.
Clearly she does.
>She looks like many, many other anime female leads and you're blind if you can't see it.
She doesn't.
>This is due to problems within the industry. Shows try it, network sours on them, they get cancelled.
It's still a problem with American animation.
>Guess that's all anime fans have to cling to in the face of the slow death of their favorite art form.
Yeah putting out 30-50 shows a season not including short shows, OVAs and movie sure is "death."
>>82832719
The Simpsons had better animation. Hyper colorful detail =/= Good animation.
>>82832837
>What does it have to do with the specific topic we were talking about?
What does animation have to do with an animation topic?
>>82832260
>I pointed out that this is far -removed from an actual adult show like Psycho-Pass
So? It's far removed from an actual adult show like Archer, or South Park, or literally anything aimed at adults. That literally has no place in this conversation. I EXPLICITLY stated Shounen.
>There's a ton of comedy anime, and sex happens like once in a blue moon if even that
Alright? Point again? I'm talking about the general amount/audience. There's comedy animes sure, but the larger amount of them aren't. Just like there's been adult orientated action cartoons/films in the west, but they're not the general amount. Also saying sex doesn't imply just literal sex in that statement. I'm speaking of sex appeal as a whole. It's way more profound in adult animes/if anywhere generally in them.
>It's a lie, you're exaggerating
It's not exaggeration, or a lie. It's an observation. It exist in plenty of animes, the vaster majority of it is subtle an quick, maybe an ass shot here or there, a dirty joke or cute moment, but you have garbage that waste there time on it, or the runtime of the entire episode is dedicated to filler based around it, and Japan eats it up. If it didn't exist/happen then this garbage wouldn't exist. It's literally just as bad as effortless unfunny noodle arm garbage, and how you can defend/ignore it is beyond me.
>>82832568
I was not literally referring to an actual individual artist.
>I had to explain to you how a camera works.
What the hell are you talking about?
>Based on what?
Your logic.
>I won't look at it until you cite.
So you don't have it.
>They look visually the same
How?
>(It's hilarious how you're in a corner now)
How?
>>82832574
The proof is in the pudding, i.e. in the animation produced by the West and Japan.
>Let's start simple: What do you know about the 12 basic principles of animation?
I know that people who can't actually animate like to cite them as if citing them was as good as knowing how to animate.
You can cite the 12 principles until the cows come home, but it's not going to help you animate something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxbum3is6G0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh57zcmI3WQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR1cMPnMcaY
>>82832991
>I was not literally referring to an actual individual artist.
Your intentions are irrelevant. You said singular, The End
>>82832991
>Based on what?
Calling out plagiarism means everyone is a plagiarist? wut?
>So you don't have it.
I won't look at it until you cite
>How?
They look visually the same, have the same megacity dystopian look and massive holographic billboards. Where's the how here?
>How?
All you're doing is repeating yourself over and over. All do the same.
>>82832991
>You can cite the 12 principles until the cows come home, but it's not going to help you animate something like this:
You're right, the 12 principles would help you animate something better than that garbage.
>>82832879
More frames does not equal better animation.
>>82832918
So you can't answer the question. Ok.
>>82832921
I said American animation hardly does anything outside of children's cartoons and adult sitcoms, and you defended it by saying:
>Sure but some of the childrens cartoons can work for young adults/adults aswell, just like certain shounens.
And to which I replied that this is far removed from real adult animation.
>There's comedy animes sure, but the larger amount of them aren't.
I'm watching 9 half hour long shows this season that are comedies or largely comedic.
>Just like there's been adult orientated action cartoons/films in the west, but they're not the general amount.
The amount of comedy anime absolutely eclipses the amount of adult-oriented action animation in the West.
>It's not exaggeration, or a lie.
It is both.
>you have garbage that waste there time on it, or the runtime of the entire episode is dedicated to filler based around it
Filler is a concept that refers to daytime anime where they've caught up with the manga or are about to do so. Content that you don't like is not filler.
>and Japan eats it up. If it didn't exist/happen then this garbage wouldn't exist.
Something existing doesn't mean it exists in massive quantities.
>>82832837
Literally from the chart:
>lolicon: the sexualization of underage females
>shotacon: the sexualization of underage males
I know 4chan is full of pedos but at least be honest about it.
>>82833177
>Better animation doesn't equal better animation
...
Okay.
>>82833102
I was not literally referring to an actual individual artist.
>Calling out plagiarism means everyone is a plagiarist? wut?
He wasn't plagiarizing.
>I won't look at it until you cite
So, once again, you don't actually own the book. Cool.
>They look visually the same
H O W
O
W
>>82833166
>It's garbage because it makes Western animation look bad
Every time.
>>82833181
They are not real people, do not look like real people, and do not act like real people. "Underage" doesn't even mean anything whatsoever in anime.
>I know 4chan is full of pedos but at least be honest about it.
Well feel free to admit you're a pedo then. Seeing as how you're the one who's introducing pedophilia into something that has nothing to do with it.
>>82833223
I said more frames doesn't equal better animation, and it doesn't.
>>82833177
>So you can't answer the question. Ok.
So, you don't understand animation then, kay.
>>82833274
I do. The fact that you can't answer the question doesn't mean I don't. That doesn't even make any sense.
>>82833261
>I was not literally referring to an actual individual artist.
Your intentions are irrelevant. You said singular, The End
>He wasn't plagiarizing.
He sure was
>So, once again, you don't actually own the book. Cool.
I won't look at it until you cite
>H O W
They look visually the same, have the same megacity dystopian look and massive holographic billboards. Where's the how here?
>>82833306
>I do.
You clearly don't. Since you don't understand how animation would be relevant in an animation topic.
>>82833354
I was not literally referring to an actual individual artist.
>He sure was
Then so was everyone else. By your logic.
>I won't look at it until you cite
What are you going to look at? You don't even have the book.
>They look visually the same
How?
>>82833393
We weren't talking about animation in general, we were talking about the meme that anime characters look the same.
>>82833399
>I was not literally referring to an actual individual artist.
Your intentions are irrelevant. You said singular, The End
>Then so was everyone else. By your logic.
What logic?
>What are you going to look at? You don't even have the book.
I won't look at it until you cite
>How?
They look visually the same, have the same megacity dystopian look and massive holographic billboards. Where's the how here?
>>82832574
>What do you know about the 12 basic principles of animation
Not the same person, but what the fuck does that have to do with anything at the end of the day? Stuff like that isn't any form of physical law, it's just a set of instructions pretty much. At the end of the day if animation looks good it looks good, whether they follows anything. Now if it looks bad, then sure you can cite them as a way to improve but there's probably plenty of fantastic animators that don't know that shit, or care.
>>82833177
Something existing means it exist, and it only gets furthered for a reason. When this shit starts affecting other animation, or you have obnoxious scenes in otherwise fine animes, then it's already too much. It just shouldn't happen at all if it's irrelevant.
>one eclipses the other
No doubt. Again, I'm saying the larger amount is X. Sure there's a lot of comedy animes, hell, there's probably more than US adult comedy cartoons, but as far as its spectrum it's not the majority. Same deal with Psycho-Pass statement. It's fruitless. There's no point. My statement at the end of the day is both have their creative bankruptcy. It's very true, and it comes in different forms for both, but it exist. Japan will just toss random shounen tier action with no actual plot and shitty animation, or just straight out fanservice garbage like hamster, and America will do unfunny garbage and noodle arms.
>>82833442
>We weren't talking about animation
>We are talking about animation
..
Kay.
>>82832719
Yeah Simpsons was better-animated. Layering everything in shadows and panning slowly over still-frames =/= good animation. There's decent framing, but the characters are nowhere near as expressive as the Simpsons characters. It seems like you're easily distracted by sparks pretty colors, and MUH-MUTURE bullshit.
UBW's writing is fucking awful, too, so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up.
Early Simpsons is the worst possible example you could've used. That's limited animation done right.
>According to your useless book knowledge.
Better than your complete lack of knowledge at all.
>Yeah, they aren't innovative at all because they haven't done a single thing that a Western animation has done. Sure.
It's more than that. They slavishly stick to what they know instead of innovating at all. There are exceptions, but they are not the norm.
Yeah, your responses are basically just proving that you're autistic. That's the long and short of it. You cannot debate or explain your positions whatsoever because you simply cannot wrap your head around anything that anyone is saying.
>>82833516
I was not literally referring to an actual individual artist.
>What logic?
Influence = ripping off.
>I won't look at it until you cite
You don't even own it. What are you going to look at?
>They look visually the same
How?
>>82833539
There's been fanservice in anime for decades. It's not some virus that's going to infect everything (and indeed hasn't).
American animation is far more creatively bankrupt. Again, it hardly has anything more on offer than episodic children's cartoons and adult sitcoms. Meanwhile anime is airing a World War II espionage thriller, a zombie survival story on a moving train and a story about a guy transported into a fantasy world who time travels to the start of the day every time he dies.
>>82833554
We were talking about character design.
>>82833644
Having more frames does not mean having better animation. That's not how animation works.
>Layering everything in shadows and panning slowly over still-frames =/= good animation
This is a meme, not reality.
>expressive
Here comes another fine meme.
>UBW's writing is fucking awful, too, so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up.
What the fuck does its writing have to do with anything?
> That's limited animation done right.
No, anime is limited animation done right.
>Better than your complete lack of knowledge at all.
My lack of animation ability has no effect on the anime industry.
>They slavishly stick to what they know instead of innovating at all.
This is wrong.
>Yeah, your responses are basically just proving that you're autistic.
No, you are autistic.
>>82833755
>>Yeah, your responses are basically just proving that you're autistic.
>No, you are autistic.
LOL
Holy shit.
You literally went for "NO YOU". Non-ironically.
Yeah, you're definitely autistic. You have no grasp of socialization whatsoever.
>>82834270
>makes a shitpost
>gets mad when he gets a "no u" response
10/10
>>82833755
>>UBW's writing is fucking awful, too, so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up.
>What the fuck does its writing have to do with anything?
A lot of your support for anime is coming from your opinion that its writing and storytelling is superior. UBW is not superior in that regard. It's loaded with plot holes and pacing problems.
It has no effect on the anime industry, but it also renders you unable to debate properly.
Again, you're resorting to "m-meme" and "n-no ur rong". You're an idiot.
>>82834294
>That
>Mad
You continue to show a lack of understanding of socialization
>>82834327
I was not talking about writing in this specific context.
>It has no effect on the anime industry, but it also renders you unable to debate properly.
It doesn't.
>Again, you're resorting to "m-meme" and "n-no ur rong".
Makes a shitpost, get a shit response. Funny how that works.
>>82834357
No, you do.
>>82814041
Anime obviously. At least they aren't scared of trying to do serious shows unlike us. I mean Gumball is great but i don't always want comedy
I'd like to comment on the comparisons between Blade Runner and Akira that were brought up earlier.
Here is a shot of Neo-Tokyo side by side with a shot of Neo-LA.
They're certainly not exactly alike, but to say that Akira doesn't take inspiration from Blade Runner would be inaccurate. Note the similar shape of the buildings and similar atmosphere, even if one is darker.
>>82834370
You've been doing the "n-no you're wrong" shit since the beginning to everyone, not just me. Is everything but your myopic opinion a shitpost, then?
>>82834710
That's the movie, not the manga.
>You've been doing the "n-no you're wrong" shit since the beginning to everyone
Then stop saying shit that's wrong.
>>82834732
No, you're wrong.
Am I doing this right?
