OK so what the actual fuck was the point of the antagonist of Civil War being called Baron Zemo when he may as well just been some random asshole with a grudge. There is NOTHING Zemo about this asshole.
Hell I have no problems of things being changed for movies but what the actual fuck is the point if you keep LITERALLY nothing from the comics? It may as well be a new character.
I loved Civil War but Zemo's role in it is seriously a low point.
To set up for Thunderbolts.
>>82568781
Regardless he is a shitty Zemo
I'm not going to type out the whole thing, but ask in the actual Civil War thread and they'll tell you why you're wrong.
>>82568802
Hopefully they get someone who actually wants to write him and the Tbolts to do something with Bruhl's character.
Also as much praise the Russos and the Cap writers get they have been shit with Cap's villains, they even turned an obscure SHIELD character into a villain for TWS and Rumlow didn't do much in TWS and when he was finally Crossbones in CW he blew up.
>>82568901
What was the point of this post even
>>82568781
Why would he be in the Thunderbolts if he's literally just a random asshole with a grudge? He's not special, he's not a villain, and he's not an ancient Nazi. He's literally unimportant to any future plots.
>>82568399
Marvel has a rich tradition of fucking up their villians. just be glad he didn't conveniently blow up like most of them
>>82568935
Hell I liked the random Shield exec being a bad guy in TWS, I would be fine with the antag of CW if he was an actual new character.
Also they really did kill off Crossbones way too early
>>82568399
He's a rusemaster doing everything because of ''muh family''.
Considering what little they've shown of him, I think they did fine.
>>82568399
I agree completely. I like him even though his character was literally a plot device. And at the end where he just shoots all the suoer soldiers was great. But they should have called him anything else
>>82569028
>Why would he be in the Thunderbolts if he's literally just a random asshole with a grudge?
Because he founds the group, you dummy.
>He's not special, he's not a villain
He was in black ops, and he was literally the villain of CW.
Will he come back with the purple costume?
>>82569173
>But they should have called him anything else
This is ultimately my problem. He would have been great as a standalone one-off villain, just don't call him Zemo.
>>82569120
>Considering what little they've shown of him, I think they did fine.
I really wish they kept the Hydra aspect of his character. Hell I wish they kept any aspect of his character. Fuck I would settle for just a fucking mask at this point.
>>82569193
>Because he founds the group, you dummy.
No proof this is going to happen. Hell why would it? As a previous anon said he is just a nobody. He has no big connections with anyone.
>He was in black ops
Which isn't much in the MCU
>>82569193
>he was literally the villain of CW.
There is a difference between an antagonist and a villain. The "Zemo" in CW was no villain, he was just a guy out for revenge.
Ross and Zemo are still alive.
If Suicide Squad doesn't fail and Disney sees that a villain team-up movie can do well, they'll go ahead with it, but I doubt it would happen in this phase.
They already had to push everything back to fit in Spiderman.
>>82568935
I believe they wanted Zemo to be closer to the comics when making Cap 3, but they ultimately had to rewrite him to fit with the consequences theme. You can't just put a nazi with a grudge in a hero vs hero movie.
>>82569620
>You can't just put a nazi with a grudge in a hero vs hero movie.
I have no idea why not. An old nazi enemy of cap wants to manipulate cap and his team. I don't see why that would be bad. Hell, the bad guy trying to turn his enemies against each other is one of the oldest tricks in the book.
>>82568399
Reminds me of the villain from TDKR being named Bane despite having zero in common other than drop-kicking Batman.
>>82569367
>I really wish they kept the Hydra aspect of his character
Hydra is offically done. AoS finished off the last of them this season and isn't it even referenced in CW that hydra is no more.
Thank christ, it's been hydra since cap 1. There are other threats they can do
>>82569367
>No proof this is going to happen.
What? Are you suddenly in a completely different argument? That was in response to "why" Zemo would be in a Thunderbolts movie. And he's literally in a prison for super-powered people at the end of the movie, he could very easily make a Masters of Evil or Thunderbolts group in there.
>Which isn't much in the MCU
And "son of a Nazi" is? And no, before you bring it up, Zemo was never HYDRA in the comics until very recently.
>>82569854
Except that character was cool.
>>82569193
>It's an anon doesn't understand the difference between a villain and an antagonist while citing synonyms and pedantry as his defense.
It's okay to be wrong, friend. It happens to everyone at least once a day. We're all human here, most of us at least.
>>82569854
At least he has a mask
Also Prison
>>82569410
Yeah, your average "guy out for revenge" can turn the Avengers against themselves, ultimately destroying the group. I think that you're just too stupid to realize this was essentially his origin story, or you don't really read comics.
>>82569961
>It happens to everyone at least once a day
Yes, like OP. In this thread.
>>82569901
"Bane" was a pussywhipped punk bitch.
>>82570018
It's a mask with nothing in common with the old mask, though. It's like if Batman wore a Spider-Man mask.
>>82570107
How is the OP wrong? The Zemo in CW is nothing like the Zemo in the comics, you cant deny this.
>>82570156
Also Prison
>>82569707
Because the younger nazis are 92 years old now.
>>82570241
Son of a Nazi indoctrinated into the cause. Hydra was still a thing.
>>82570179
>manipulative, has many convoluted master plans
>wants revenge for the death of family member(s)
>focused on Steve in particular (the whole exchange about his eyes)
OP pls
"The Zemo in CW is nothing like the Zemo in the comics" is a huge exaggeration, you can't deny this.
What's Zemo like in Comics? I've never read anything he was involved in.
I really liked Zemo's character and concept in the movie but his plan was way too convoluted.
>>82570351
>has many convoluted master plans
He had one plan and it wasn't really convoluted.
>focused on Steve in particular (the whole exchange about his eyes)
The movie didn't portray him having anything specific against Steve but against all the Avengers.
>>82569410
Zemo didn't feel like a man who was simply out for just revenge. He also wanted some changes made that will affect people with unchecked power.
>>82570705
>He also wanted some changes made that will affect people with unchecked power.
That wasn't his goal at all. That was just a part of his scheme to turn them against each other.
>>82568399
it's simple. he was zemo because his story concludes with him essentially succeeding in his goal. marvel didn't want to have a no name villain be the guy that "beat" the avengers. if he was a no name dude the "hur dur, the avengers got beat by some regular guy when loki and ultron couldn't" memes would be never ending. making him the mcu version of an established villain elevates him and makes his win acceptable to fan boys. also, zemo was great in this movie.
>>82570939
Sure Zemo was great in the movie but he wasn't a great Zemo.
>>82570981
I rather have a great 'Zemo' than the actual Baron Zemo, tbqh.
>>82570415
Thinks that not all people are created equal, and certain people (like himself) are just plain better and should be in charge.
More or less:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher_king
>>82568399
- comes from a failed Germanic country
- was once a member of a group meant to sow terror (Echo Scorpion)
- Master manipulator
- Always one step ahead of everyone
How the hell is he NOT Zemo, sans absence of wearing a damn dishtowel on his face?
>>82571099
I forgot:
- Family members are dead as a result of the Avengers' actions
>>82570981
Were people expecting Zemo to lead a Masters of Evil team to attack the Avengers HQ? Or maybe have him weaponize super glue and terrorize the populace?
>>82570939
>>82570981
Anyone notice he didn't have the baron part, or the costume?
and that he was alive at the end of the movie?
yeah, he's clearly going to return to be a villain in a future movie. Like they did with Crossbones and Loki.
>>82571154
you can almost say CW was Baron Zemo's origin story
>>82568399
Isn't he still a guy who hates the Avengers for killing his father? That at least hasn't changed. And it doesn't kill his ability to be a threat in the future either. His grudge still stands. There are still Avengers out there. He's still alive. They're probably going to use him for something in the future.
>>82569367
>I really wish they kept the Hydra aspect of his character.
How strong has Zemo's connection to HYDRA ever really been? I'm not that educated about the character, but I read his father's first Masters of Evil appearance, and he wasn't HYDRA, he was a straight up Nazi from Nazi Germany, who was hiding out in South America. Are you sure you're not getting him mixed up with Strucker?
>"But they didn't use the costume"
>"When is he gonna get his mask?"
I think it's funny that Marvel is making these films and they can't even get their own characters right.
Never throughout the film was he referred to as "Baron".
>>82570340
>Another Hydra ruse cruise
Please no more. It's as he said, that Hydra deserves its place in the ash pile of history
>>82572193
I'm sorry about BvS Anon, but no need to be salty.
>>82572193
I think it's funny that only a few thousand comic book fan will even care.
>>82571154
>Like they did with Crossbones
Yeah and look how that turned out
>>82571146
>"Haha! My ultimate weapon to destroy the Avengers! A super-adhesive that can't be disssolved!"
>Gets dissolved by fucking Paste-Pot-Pete's solvent.
It never stops being funny to me.
>no mask
>no sword
Not muh Zemo
>>82572987
>No pink glue
Not MUH Zemo!
>>82571686
Yeah I'm not sure what version of Zemo other people are remembering, because his drawing Steve and Bucky in to taunt and troll them over muh dead dad thing was very much Zemo. Just because he wasn't purple?
>>82568399
Thunderbolts, duh.
>>82573035
What I've found is that the more surface level and casual a fan's excitement or love of a character is, the more they care about the accoutrement of the character, and less about the core of who the character is.
>>82571099
isn't Zemo supposed to be aristocratic and snooty in his villainy?
>>82569422
But they also shelved Inhumans indefinitely.
Could be Iron Man 4, could be T Bolts, could be something wildly unexpected.
>>82573169
Pretty much. I want Zemo to be a stuck up dick that thinks he is better then everyone.
Zemo was too sympathetic.
>>82573158
I'm just sick of NOT MUH ZEMO by people who clearly have no fucking clue who Zemo is or what he's about. He's more than a purple sock nazi. Thanks for teaching me the word accoutrement, though, that's exactly how I feel.
>>82571062
This is true though, some people are better than others.
I'm a manlet and I know I'll never be good at basketball than other people.
People are not created equal, but everyone deserves equal rights.
The only things he was missing were some daddy issues and actively wanting outdo Cap but that can be added in with a second appearance. He was Zemo in every other way.
>>82573175
But because the only one who wanted that movie was Ike Perlmutter and they pushed him away from movies.
>>82569422
Fuck Ross, if they do Thunderbolts it should be the classic setup. Even the shitty cartoon went with it to prove it can be done for plebs.
>>82573169
Listening to his wife speak, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of future snootiness.
>>82573955
What did they reveal about his father? Only that he died with Zemo's wife and children?
>>82573996
The reason doesn't matter, Marvel/Disney now have an empty spot on their currently announced slate of films.
I think it's likely they will simply move something else from phase 3 up to an earlier release, but then we are still left with an empty slot at the end.
>>82574095
I think it said why he was with them too, but yeah that's basically it. Plenty of room to build on that at least.
>>82574152
Yeah, but that spot was taken by Spiderman.
>>82574168
Ah, good point.
>>82574155
I want to know more about his time on that Sokovian "death squad" they mentioned but didn't really explore much. What was his training like? What has he done before?
>>82574152
There's no hole. Inhumans was scheduled for the July 2019, a whole year after Infinity War Part 2. If that's gone for good they could replace it with literally anything. Launch of a new franchise, Black Panther or Dr Strange sequels, GotG 3, Cap, IM, or Thor 4, etc etc.
Speaking of Thor. Does anyone else wish that they would swap the Black Panther and Thor movie schedules? I would love to watch Panther next year. Waiting till 2018 for his solo movie is gonna be a pain.
>>82574270
>I would love to watch Panther next year. Waiting till 2018 for his solo movie is gonna be a pain.
Goddammit, they can't just set us up with all this Panther hype, and then make us wait 2 years. That's just cruel.
>>82574303
At least when they pull Bucky during his movie out of the freeze it won't feel too rushed.
>>82574152
Does it have to be a Marvel replacement? They already have Indiana Jones taking the place of it
>>82574303
This is why movies are bullshit and Netflix is actually what we should be wanting for most interesting ideas. Serial stories should be adapted serially.
>>82574303
This. I don't like what I've seen of Dr. Strange, never liked GOTG as much as other people did, and the Thor franchise has been garbage so far so even if the movie turns out to be good I have little reason to care beforehand. It's going to be a long wait before I start seeing the characters I actually already care about again.
Although >>82574322 has a point.
>>82574322
>>82574382
Isn't Team Cap hiding in Wakanda?
Also, BP is the last movie before Infinity War.
>>82574394
I don't think they plan on staying if they are all there. The wording of Steve saying "they'l come for him" instead of "they'll come for us" makes it sound like he's dropped Bucky off in T'Challa's protection.
>>82574382
I love all of those except for Thor, and honestly don't see why they don't make that movie a direct prelude to Infinity War in Panther's spot. They already seem to be doing that, so I don't know why it comes out so far before Infinity War.
>>82574441
Also, It's probably smarter not to store Bucky in the same place as them if they're found out. Still, it would be cool to see Panther gift Steve with a kickass new suit of Vibranium-scale armor.
>>82574441
You think Pym would take them in if they all crashed at his place? He seems to have a nice house, with a decent amount of room. Maybe they can start the West-Coast Avengers.
My brother has read like 2 fucking Zemo comics and still manages to understand the fundamental core of the character better than you do, OP.
>>82574615
Cap's going to have to recollect his boyfriend at some point. If not in Black Panther's movie, then in IW. No doubt Falcon is going to have to get his rightfully Wakandan wings, too.
I never really cared for the fandom portrayal of all the Avengers and their associated sidekicks living out episodes of Friends in Stark Tower, but I'd totally be down with Team Cap chilling with their newer better sugar daddy in Wakanda. Probably because I like that group of characters better.
I'm a little torn between wanting Tony to get the fuck over himself and give the shield back to Cap, or Cap just getting a new one from T'Challa. Same with Bucky and a new arm. I imagine that they left the blasted off one with Stark, and knowing him he might have taken it with in intention to study the technology. Him giving Bucky a new one could be a good olive branch, but T'Challa outfitting him with a superior vibranium one would be great as well and a good way to show off the extent of Wakanda's technology.
It is going to drive me crazy having to wait this many years to find out where the fuck all of them are, though.
Remember, it's alright to have a character who's nothing like the comic book character that they're supposed to be if it's a Marvel Studios film. If someone else does it then it's not alright, then it's the worst film ever made. Marvel Studios cannot do wrong, because it's owned by Disney.
>>82575702
Go to bed, Snyder
>>82575758
I dislike Snyder's films too. Why do you think that if someone dislikes Marvel films that they automatically like DC films?
>>82568399
While it's a big departure from the source material, it does build him up as an interesting villain. Now he's got underworld cred as the man who broke up the Avengers. He could totally spin that into a super villain persona. Start calling himself "Baron" Zemo. Maybe get himself a Masters of Evil team together. Or even better, a Thunderbolt squad. I'd love to see what mischief he could get up to.
And it is nice that for once we didn't kill off the antagonist. I think Marvel's finally learned that if they wanna milk this gravy train, they gotta have repeat offenders ready. Can't just keep murdering all their baddies.
Now they got Loki, Zemo, Abomination's still on ice, Red Skull is somewhere in the cosmos waiting to be called back into action, and all they need to bring Ultron back is some macguffin about how he hid himself in a hardrive somewhere and has been laying low. It's really not that hard to write Ultron back to life, they've been doing it since the sixties. Remember when Bendis "Killed him for reals" a couple years back? Funny stuff.
But yeah, it's important to keep human antagonists alive if they want to bring them back for future stories.
>>82575839
>Start calling himself "Baron" Zemo.
He could literally be a Baron and just not have used the title in this. We don't know anything about his background. We don't know who his father was.
To me the only departures from the source material in this film were the lack of a sword and mask. Which are not essential to Zemo IMO. His characterization was well in line with Thunderbolts Z.
>>82568399
Something that would have been funny:>Talking with Black Panther at the end
>"After I left the military I settled down. Found a nice girl. Got a normal job. I worked in the local glue factory. I was the best glue maker in all of Sokovia."
Adhesive X. Google it.
>>82575863
Every day I thank fuck that people like this anon, who have so clearly never read the source material beyond a wiki page, are not in charge of these movies.
>>82575856
Since we all kind of have a hunch Thunderbolts is gonna happen (Gunn expressed interest in said project, Zemo ins now an established fixture of the MCU, new Thunderbolts ongoing out of nowhere that just kinda got the band back together for seemingly no reason other than "why not?") how do you think Zemo is gonna handle his superhero identity. He could easily rock the "Citizen V" look but he could just as easily make a superhero persona with his purple sock mask and fancy furs. Call himself "The Baron" or "Baron Z". Would be a cool way to introduce his comic costume since it's not like said costume has been associated as his villain suit yet.
>>82569011
To highlight that this thread itself has no point.
>>82569193
This Zemo has no interest in leading a group of superhumans, that's why he destroyed the winter soldiers.
>Did you really thing I wanted more of you?
>>82576251
His ultimate goal is to destroy the Avengers, and maybe even the idea of superheroes altogether in the world. It's not inconceivable he could orchestrate the Thunderbolts to that end. Especially if he's setting them up to be discredited in the end.
>>82572797
WTF did these fans of a Z lister come from? Before this movie only thing people gave a fuck about CB for was shooting cap in a much hated event.
What does CB have that evil random henchmen #34323242 doesn't?
>>82574040
who is his wife?
I kept thinking maybe Madame Hydra?
>>82574615
>scale armor
Holy shit, you people are obsessed with that fucking armor.
>>82574615
>>82578173
The scale armor has always been ugly.
>>82576491
Style, branding, and the endearing loyalty of a beloved family dog.
>>82573874
But someone being better than you at basketball doesn't mean they're a better person and more fit to rule. Unless you live in a weird basketballtocracy or something.
>>82579757
You missed that anon's point
