ok, so who honestly would win?
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ok, so who honestly would win?
>>82241430
Saitama
>>82241430
Superman. Not even a question.
>>82241430
the Flash
>>82241430
What Superman?
What Goku?
>>82241430
I swear I see this thread at least once a week on here and the obvious answer is always one of the first answers but idiots like you keep wanting to hear someone backup your opinion on who would win.
It all boils down to this.... it depends on who's writing it.
>>82241430
Better fight
>>82241430
Either Uncle Grandpa or Popeye.
>>82241430
Goku eventually.
Since Superman would never kill Goku, Goku would get stronger every time that Superman defeated him. Eventually, he would overpower Superman (assuming he wouldn't overpower him from the beginning).
TOAA
>>82241610
Plastic Man.
Even with Fluffy in 4th Gear, Plastic Man.
Plastic man, while seemingly goofy, is rather dangerous if he ever grasps the seriousness of a situation.
>>82241430
Joe Shuster or Jerry Siegel vs Akira Toriyama. They are fighting to the death. Who wins?
>>82241430
The real question is Golden Age Superman vs Saitama. Who's plot armor is stronger?
>>82241430
LOL I POSTED IT AGAIN LOL
LOL
LOL
LOL U DON'T LIKE ANIMES???? WHERE DO U THINK WE R X-DDDD
IT'S NOT SHITPOSTING IF /A/ DOES IT
>>82241765
Does Superman kill pic related before the fight?
>>82241805
Ooh, tough call.
>>82241610
>better fight
It's the same problem. Luffy has no means to kill Plastic Man and Plastic's feats of even rubberiness far outweigh Luffy's.
Just like how Goku, despite his efforts, wouldn't be able to beat a theoretically murder-okay prime Superman.
The problem with these fight scenarios is that they need to be more specific.
>Which period of Plastic Man?
>Which Superman run?
Luffy and Goku can easily be assumed as "Most recent" but the others have too much branching history to be vague.
>>82241430
Goku defeated stopped time.
>>82241861
Why would Shuster or Siegel draw a picture of Superman killing Krillin? Is that why Akira is gonna fight them?
>>82241765
>>82241861
Er, I meant... Does Shuster kill Jackie Chan before the fight?
>>82241682
The problem is: we might be using Zach Snyder superman, who would kill goku without hesitation. Or Akira Toryama Goku who would be happy to make peace with someone stronger than he is, because friend to all.
So: Worst Superman or Best Goku? It ends quickly and in a draw.
>>82241610
This just makes me think of those Reed Richards vs Ralph Dibny comics.
I'm on phone, so someone post please
>>82241805
It's tough, but I'd say Golden Age Supes.
Simply because he'd pull a power out of his ass that would somehow perfectly counter Saitama.
Also, Supes winning would be the more positive symbolic gesture, so his plot armor would be superior.
>>82241940
So did a 16 year old high school student.
>>82241940
So did JoJo. Anime time stop is weakest time stop.
>>82241765
2 Jews vs a fat Jap.
The winner would be society.
>>82241430
Current Goku shits on current Superman.
Any other Goku gets destroyed.
>>82242019
So a 16 yers old can defeat Superman?
>>82242140
Nah. Post Crisis is still alive and kicking. The guy punches him so hard the damage travels through time and hits every version of Goku in every possible universe and time line. And they all die instantly.
>>82241430
>SSB Saiyans can't even lift a 1000 tons
Goku is a better character than Superman
>>82242142
No. Unless they know magic or some shit.
but can supes defeat him?
>>82242316
Can Sakura Card Captor absolutely destroy Superman?
>>82241430
Up to SSJ3, Supes
Further beyond, Goku.
So in your pic, Supes
>>82242383
Mmm. Maybe. Her cards have magic and a lot of hax.
If she actually moved at ftl speeds. Then maybe she could beat him.
>>82241430
>implying the two wouldn't be bros
Goku is, by all reasonable accounts, literally magic. Magic exists in the DB universe, and Goku's powers derive from that. Superman is weak to magic. That combined with Goku's instant transmission technique (literally instantaneous transport between any two points, anywhere in the universe- possibly the fastest FTL travel in any fiction I've ever seen) means he can probably take Superman.
Unfortunately.
>>82241610
Plas can swim.
>>82242423
>implying Goku wouldn't want to fight Superman for shits and giggles
>>82241610
Can Luffy become a functional bike?
Plot armors being equal, Superman wins because death is less of a big deal to Goku.
>>82241430
Super Sayian God Super Sayian can't even lift 1000 tons. While beings like Hulk, Superman, Thor and etc can easily lift that.
>>82242473
>Implying it would be a fight to the death in which both go all out and wouldn't end in a cross-counter pastel frame.
>>82242423
Goku likes to beat up his bros
>>82242473
They'd definitely fight for funsies. Superman would want an opportunity to test out his full strength, and Goku always loves fighting a strong opponent.
But they'd never fight to the death. There'd be no winner, just mutual admiration.
>>82242449
Gokus powers come from ki, which is a natural thing everyone in DBZ has. If anything the universes colliding would give Supes ki too and he would be firing off energy blasts in a few hours
>>82241430
Superman
>>82241610
Just throw Luffy into the water
Even Supes knows how dangerous Plas is
>>82242449
>Thinking DB magic can hold a candle to DC magic
That's cute.
Also Ki isn't magicEven though it fucking is but whatever
>>82241430
Whoever the villain is in this hypothetical crossover if the two greatest champions of each respective universe are wasting time fighting each other instead of the real threat,
>>82241893
>Luffy has no means to kill Plastic Man
>he doesn't know about haki
>>82242623
Even injustice supes didn't want to fuck with plas
>>82242659
Ki isn't magic in the DBZ universe. It's just projecting energy that you've obtained through training. That's why they get stronger from training and shit instead of just from reading books. One might argue that Picollo might be magic considering that all he does to power up (besides absorbing Kami) is meditating, but that's a different can of worms.
>>82242381
>Not as powerful as everyone was making him out to be
Yeah, I'm still salty about that
>>82242383
She could manage to incapacitate him and if she is lucky to enclose him, if superman was mad with rage while possessed by Satan or something he would probably kill her almost instantaneously.
>>82242754
But piccolo does use magic, he doesn't use it almost never in fights tho
>>82241430
goku because he could just destroy every yellow sun in the universe
>>82242876
Like I said, different can of worms.
>mfw all these people picking superman
kek, butmad capeshitfags. Goku would win simply because anime is superior to western
>>82242754
I didn't say it was, I said it SHOULD be.
Which it should, but it isn't. Can't argue with canon.
>>82242902
God, that fat bastard was a piece of shit.
>>82242694
>Thinks that Plas is susceptible to any form of mind control
>Doesn't know about Fernus the Burning.
>>82242381
Is the animation supposed to be bad or does have have like a one inch punch type move?
>>82242991
The webm skips the part where Hit doesn't feel his punch and briefly contemplated giving Nipples the win
>>82242381
Are those fucking tits?
>>82242991
No, it is that shit.
>>82241610
Plastic Man would be too slow to even touch Luffy, Luffy doesn't have anything capable of hurting Plastic Man.
They fight for days untill Luffy gets too tired and lose.
>>82242990
>haki
>mind control
>>82242008
GA Superman would develop one block power in that scenario.
>>82243139
nipples
he got the biggest nipples of his race
>>82242694
This whole debate is arround this, would haki make Luffy's strike hurt plastic man like he had a normal body? If yes, Luffy would end him with one punch, if not see>>82243167
>>82243185
>Conqueror's haki
>not some form of mind control
>>82243267
When people say haki they are almost invariably talking about the armor one
Superman.
>>82243322
And that would harm Plas how? The powers don't overlap. Plas isn't like a logia user in that his body become stretchy, Plas is something stretchy that take on a human shape.
>>82243267
It doesn't matter since plas is a superhero he automatically has enough willpower to survive it anyway.
>>82243322
Haki isn't just about fighting logia users, they let you touch people like they had a normal body, Luffy for exemple, who is normaly impervious to punches because of his rubber body can get harmed by a haki punch like he had a regular body.
Who can beat Superman?
>>82243579
this was supposed to be for>>82243439
>>82243579
But he's a person that is made of rubber. Plas is essentially a semi liquid blob that has an intelligence
>>82243630
Luffy is a person with a rubber body. Plas is a stretchy thing that looks human. Or could Luffy survive being shredded and scattered on the sea floor of the pacific?
>>82243610
Doomsday, Batman, Wonderwoman, anyone with kryptonit
>>82243610
A large number of people if DC weren't so up their own ass with the Superman wanking. It is like reading something Starling wrote about Thanos and Adam Warlock.
>>82243666
He was a regular person who got turned into a living blob, Rayleigh, described haki as a power that let you touch the person's originalbody, Plastic Man original body is a human one
Do you see my point?
>>82243610
a BIGGER Superman
>>82241682
Anyone who knows Goku, knows he'd never kill an opponent like that.
>>82241940
Something that's completely irrelevant, as Superman doesn't have time powers.
>>82242140
Only idiots think this.
>>82243610
J'onn easily would solo the entire DC Earth if he wasn't such a jobber.
Depends on whether ki powers are considered supernatural enough to count as 'magic'. It's pretty much just raw, concussive energy condensed from one's body and spirit, and enough of it can disintegrate a fucking star.
And besides, the two of them wouldn't even bother actually trying to kill each other, at worst they'd just spar for a few weeks and eat twenty million dollars worth of cheap food apiece when they're done.
>>82243610
Darkseid is Superman's greatest enemy for a reason you know.
>>82243777
Why would Goku be killing Superman? I thought they were just fighting to win (or to get stronger, for the sheer love of fighting, etc. in Goku's case).
>>82243610
Whoever the plot demands.
Shit like "power levels" and "jobbing" sucks.
>>82243870
Light a match.
He's finished.
>>82243870
> If J'onn didn't suck, he'd be badassed.
>>82241430
(You)
>>82242449
>magic = ki
>>82243954
Only terrible writers make J'onn faint on the sight of fire just like only terrible writers make Superman faint in the presence of Kryponite.
>>82243692
>tfw Batman in peak conditions could beat Superman but Goku would annihilate Batman
>>82244172
This aplies to so many characters, anyone could beat superman with a piece of kryptonite, but they would still et wrecked by Goku
>>82244121
That's basically like saying a character having weaknesses is a terrible idea.
>>82244172
>peak conditions
i.e. Superman is being an idiot or is taking a nap
>>82241430
The question isn't one of power, or speed, or fighting skill, or whatever new powers both sides have gained. This fight was decided as soon as this happened. The moment Superman learned how to phase through matter and energy from the Flash, Goku can't win, ever. Superman can simply ignore whatever Goku tries to do. And because Superman is constantly recharged by the sun, and Goku runs out of power after a few hours at best, Superman can simply outlast him and kill him easily ponce Goku has no power left to draw on.
>>82244252
It depends on how you execute it.
>>82244226
Is that why Metallo and Kryptonite Man have killed Superman so often? Oh wait...
>>82244491
why cant goku just destroy the sun?
>>82243692
Well you got none of those right.
Reminder Goku couldn't kill Buu without help.
Reminder Goku couldn't kill Cell without help.
Reminder Goku couldn't beat Raditz without help.
>>82244172
What are you talking about? Batman has never beaten Superman, even with kryptonite. Even in DKR, when circumstance, Superman being an idiot and even the writer are all on Batman's side, who was on their feet at the end of that fight, and who was in the ground?
>>82244846
Reminder Cell's claim of blowing up a Solar System was a bluff to make him look arrogant and cocky
>>82244773
Because you can't punch an explosion.
>>82244846
>Reminder Goku couldn't kill Cell without help.
He can, he was just retarded. He literally forfeit his fight with Cell just to show off how stronk his son is even though he had Cell on the ropes
>>82241610
Plastic Man can survive millions of years after being blown to bits.
Luffy will drown in any water deeper than his height.
>>82244252
no its like saying that some-one who is afraid of spiders would faint at a picture of a spider, its retarded, superman should be rendered powerless and weakened by kryptonite, but he shouldn't just keel over in its presence, j'ohnn should actively avoid fire, but not fucking run away screaming every time he sees someone light a cigarette.
>>82241490
Funny enough he doesn't have feats that exceed Goku and Supermanyet
For now it's NLF
Key words being "For now"
>>82241940
Superman turned back time by flying really fast.
>>82243912
>Depends on whether ki powers are considered supernatural enough to count as 'magic'.
it doesn't really make any difference - because a 'magic' energy beam shouldn't hurt superman more than any other energy beam of equivalent power - but it's not counted as magic in DBZ (made clear in the babidi saga), and probably not in DC either.
if anything it's closer to the natural bioenergy stuff that powers superman and lets him fly.
>>82244946
Saitama is meta parody of the hero archetype and wins every encounter because he is a story device used purely to win fights.
The only characters off the top of my head that don't automatically lose to Saitama are a few characters from Medaka Box or God of Stories Loki purely because they also have Meta Hax.
>>82244942
Goku's weaknesses are tail grabbing and doctor needles. I'm pretty sure a magic mineral material is a better weakness.
Fuck this "who would win" bullshit. Here's a more interesting question, what would Goku actually do in the DC universe? How would people and other metahumans view him?
>>82245060
Magic still hurts Superman just fine. He-Man put a sword though his chest, for Chrissake.
>>82245220
Batman would be weary and then Vegeta would use galick gun on him and kill him instantly
>>82245060
Chi/Ki is considered a type of magic in the Marvel universe.
On the other hand, Marvel and DC have very different definitions of magic, so I don't fucking know.
>>82245218
And lasers.
>>82244846
He still defeated Frieza on his own
He chose not to kill Cell, instead letting Gohan handle it (if he'd eaten a senzu bean midway through he definitely could have done it)
He chose not to kill Buu right away (as Super Saiyan 3 Goku against Fat Buu)
>>82242469
that's gonna be the plot armor of death battle
>>82241610
Plastic man can't gear four
Luffy can
>>82241430
Jimmy Olson.
>>82245651
And what exactly does that do to help?
>>82246002
Considering Luffy is a battle genius and plastic man is a comedic relief character, a lot
>>82245547
He didn't kill Buu the second time around because he didn't want to have some manlet yelling in his face for the rest of his life about not getting a turn.
>>82244114
Not in Dragon ball
>>82244846
Reminder that Goku is exponentially stronger then he was when he fought either of those chumps.
If he were to fight them now he could obliterate them without any effort.
>>82245651
I'm pretty sure Plastic man can all the gears when he shapeshifts into a fully functional bicycle.
>>82246353
Unless they got a laser gun that is.
>>82245529
That was retconned in Super.
He powered down like a fucking idiot and was walking away when he was shot.
Goku could just teleport Superman to hell then teleport back to earth.
>>82246353
>lol it's later in the series so that means he's sooooo much stronger than the wiener babies he fought before
I hate DBZfags
>>82246394
Or a sports car. Or a fucking clock.
Spoon!
>>82241524
Get back to me when he's destroying a universe.
And don't give me that thought robot, Superboy prime of One million shit.
>>82246433
Still means Goku can die to arms fire if he isn't paying attention making him super fucking weak when you think about it.
Batman could kick his ass without any shenanigans, just stealth and a tranquilizer gun.
>>82241682
That assumes that Superman doesn't get bored or annoyed enough by this scenario to just shove the person preventing him from saving millions of lives in the phantom zone, that Goku would keep fighting after Supes says he's not in the mood for fighting in the first place, or doesn't just get some help in a presumably but not necessarily convoluted plot to get rid of Goku which may or may not involve having to make out with his cousin.
>>82246433
In RoF and Super that scene pissed me off so much.
Frieza is Hitler in space, and Goku knows this. Goku also spared his life twice on Namek, and both times, Frieza instantly tried to kill him.
Instead of doing the right thing, Goku just tells him he can go terrorize space as long as he wants and come back whenever he feels like it. This motherfucker is dumber than TFS Goku.
>>82246460
>I've never read or watched DBZ the post
Also all Goku would have to do to beat Supeman is go into his original super saiyan god mode. That way he could use his red sun radiation to destroy superman
>>82246460
But...he is though?
Goku gets progressively stronger as the series progresses. When he fought Cell and Buu he couldn't turn into a fucking God or move so fast a time stop doesn't affect him.
Fuck ,every protagonist in anything gets stronger as their work progresses, this isn't a thing exclusive to DBZ, asshole.But I don't blame you for thinking that since Superman is pretty much just as strong now, if not weaker, then he was back when he was first made.
>>82246511
God, I loved that fight. Pretty much the only thing Super did better than the movies, and the movies sucked.
>>82246515
No, it means base form Goku can get his shit wrecked by a laser gun when he isn't expecting it.
After even one transformation he'd probably power through it or move too fast to get hit by the fucking thing.
>>82246511
You see that shit? What is happening there? He just stopped something that was going to destroy ALL universes just by being there.
And this? Here he is holding the death of an entire universe with his hands. That's right, the guy could easily grab whatever energy sphere of that purple pussy and shove it inside his mouth.
Beerus a bitch ass nigga.
>>82245529
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpHeodMmXzM
Krillin tried to warn him about firearms.
>>82246515
and Superman can die to magic arms fire if he isn't paying attention
>>82246511
So Goku can provide half the energy needed to break down all the point particles in his universe. That isn't universe busting. That is one half universe busting.
>>82246826
Beerus could Universe Bust.
Goku is on-par with Beerus there.
Hence, Goku can universe bust
>>82246553
>>82246591
>Missing the point of my post
DBZ in general pisses me off by essentially treating it's characters as disposable "power level" fodder, and you faggots eat it up. It's hardly the only anime that does this sure but at least they don't shit on the other characters for not being strong enough.
Superman doesn't make every other hero in the DC universe obsolete by simply existing, this is doubly insulting considering, yes Superman is stronger than Goku.
>>82246826
Goku is 10 times as strong as he was in that scene.
What's the strongest version of Supes?
>>82246907
if Beerus was going less than 100% (which he was) but more than 50% (which he also was) and the two of them together created that effect then logically no, Goku can not achieve that on his own, unless one divided by two is no longer one half or Goku was not going all out, something he had no reason to do.
>>82246955
unless he has a defined level at that point (something Toriyami stopped doing a while ago because they were pointless), that means literally nothing.
>>82247033
Thought Robot Superman, who is literally a plot device incarnate who, by definition, cannot lose.
>>82246932
>Superman doesn't make every other hero in the DC universe obsolete by simply existing
>>82247059
Goku's defined level at that point is "70% of Beerus's maximum power".
>>82247169
Okay then. Unless we know Beerus' maximum power, that number is still meaningless.
>>82246511
>That "Animation"
Jesus Christ. Fucking Dragonball was better than this
>>82247104
Well he doesn't.
>>82247104
He doesn't. Flash is as Broken and Captain Atom is just bullshit.
>>82247104
>I don't read DC but I have seen images of Superman sneezing galaxies away in pre-crisis comics so I'm a fucking expert
>>82247216
Beerus's max power was nullifying the destruction of the universe, so it's a fair assumption that he could do the opposite at 100%.
But, let's go by your assumption. Goku was going at 100% in that moment, and Beerus was doing 70%. That would mean it takes 140% of Beerus's power to destroy the universe. Goku can do 700% of Beerus now.
>>82247169
>70%
Who the fuck is recording this at this point? Why Torysalami throwing out abstract bullshit percentages that can't actually be recorded and proven in or out of universe?
Why do you still watch this garbage?
>>82246932
>Superman doesn't make every other hero in the DC universe obsolete by simply existing
Goku doesn't too
>>82247327
Same reason you still read Superman, or just watch the movies. I don't know what you do.
>>82247327
Toriyama is a fucking hack. I can't believe anybody is watching Super
>>82247327
>strength levels need to be provable out of universe to be good
>implying power levels ever actually mattered after "it's over 9000!!!!!!"
What is the point of these threads?
Anime faggots will simply post bullshit speculations and when busted will just move to another character or anime.
Superfags will pretend there is only one Superman who is an amalgamation every single version of him and when busted they will pretend the most powerful characterization of him is the default one.
You people are the reason Powerman/ One Punch exist.
>>82247380
Still better than MoS and BvS
>>82241430
Why do powerlevels matter anymore, especially when it comes to superman. There power levels and shit is so stupidly inconsistent and OP that it doesn't even matter.
When you literally start writing "PSHOO and he's so powerful he punches you THROUGH TIME AND OUT OF THE UNIVERSE pshoo pchoo soo cool!" like grade schoolers arguing, there's no room for meaningful debate anymore. Superman punches Goku into the heat death of the universe and farts out a galaxy silver-age style because powerlevels are bullshit and the writing for both of them is stupidly ridiculous.
>>82247434
>One Punch
Has shit feats
>>82247353
Toriyama really does have fucking Alzheimers, I swear. Remember how Roshi was shown to have a power level lower than Krillians at the start of DBZ? And how that was under 200? Remember how Friezas shit tier grunts laughed at the Namekians having a power level of 1000 before they powered up? Remember how Roshi hasn't trained a day in over 30 years?
Toriyama doesn't. And don't give me that "Hurr Power levels are bullshit" bollocks
>>82247438
>This pile of shit is better than this pile of shit
You're still eating shit
>>82247353
>Beating nameless legions of redshirts is being useful
You sure showed me anon
>>82247406
I don't want to be that guy it seems that it's mostly Americans who can't let the powerlevel thing go. I blame the dub for keep using "powerlevel" to refer to someone Ki.
The whole Saiyan and Namek ark was supposed to tell you shit can't be calculated.
>>82247571
>Roshi is this strong for some reason but he didn't help anybody with the Saiyans or go to Namek
This is shit
>>82247582
They can be calculated and gauged to a point then it's just horseshit
>>82247517
Roshi has been sparring with 18 almost every day since she moved in because he keeps perving on her and pissing her off, of course he's gotten stronger
>>82247571
>You sure showed me anon
Glad you admitted you were wrong anon
>>82247353
If Roshi is this strong why the hell wasn't he taken to Namek or some shit like that?
>>82247693
It can't be calculate because it fluctuates retard, is not a constant.
They increase it and decrease mid battle, their "powerlevel" is Qi/Chi a chinese spiritual concept. Why don't you create a device to calculate peoples faith? The english dub destroyed a basic concept of the anime and turned it into a toy for autists.
>>82242008
>>82241805
Golden age wouldn't be above changing things from a fight to a test of skill. Saitama has almost no skill. Ergo there's a good chance Superman would win this.
>>82242383
She has magical cards. Superman has been one shotted by magical playing cards simply being thrown at him before.
>>82244850
It wasn't even a fight. It was Bruce attacking him while Clark kept on going "Goddamnitt, Bruce! Stop being an asshole" until Bruce "died" of old age.
>>82243915
>implying the greatest enemy is not Gilbert Godfrey's voice.
0/10 you Superfail anon.
>>82247969
>It fluctuates
Yeah, no. It "Fluctuates" due to shit tier writing from the most forgetful faggot alive
>>82247978
>Based Godfrey's voice not being god-like
Heretic
>>82248154
Go back to the Superpolice Superacademy! The Superjoke flew over your Superhead from your failure to appreciate Superlore you Superfool.
Now Superbeat it!
>>82248057
They literally spell it out for you when Vegeta arrives and any time anyone puls the stupid scouters.
They can change Qi at will, Goku and the others control it and change it depending on the requirements of the fight, it can be measured but is so unreliable it makes no sense to do it.
Why are you so butthurt anyways? I'm not saying DBZ is some patrician show but pretending to be retarded is another thing. It wasn't explained just when Vegeta came to earth but it happened like four times with Freezer, his thugs and the Ginyu. Either Americans put very little attention or I am underestimating how butchered the script got in your dub.
>>82248301
I'm not butthurt but there is a clear hierarchy to power in DBZ. And you responded to me saying "it can be calculated to a point" saying it can't but now you're saying it can be measured
I do like how you assume I'm American though
>>82246511
>Get back to me when he's destroying a universe
Kay
>>82248647
Forgot the first page
>>82248409
No one is debating the hierarchy but the retards that come here treating powerlevels like if they where a RPG mechanic
>Goku has a PL of 50 if I use SSJ that is a x5 multiplier he will have a PL 250 thus he can beat Freeza cuz his PL is 240
Did you see the show? Yes they could measure it but there was no point since it wasn't reliable, characters controlled their Qi and increase it or decrease it at will, it's never constant. Chichi can physically hurt Goku, does that make her almost as powerful as Bills?
The concept of powerlevel was dropped after Freezer ark, everyone just said shit like "Wow do you feel that Qi? Is fucking huge". YOU or anyone here can't do calculations about it since there are no numbers ad it's useless to try to make any numbers since each battle will have a different number.
>>82248837
I find it hilarious how it's all about "Qi" but the only way anybody gets stronger in this show is by lifting or getting fucked up
>>82248898
Sometimes seeing friends, family, or nice guys you just met getting killed or hurt can do it for you.
>>82246511
DBZ's universe are pretty small though. Not even that impressive. It seems like they only have 4 galaxies at best in it.
>>82248898
Because training is the way you increase your Qi aka "life energy"? Remember Dragon Ball started with the basis of martial arts?
And the increase of getting fucked up is an asspull yes.
>>82249011
They had quadrants, not galaxies.
Plus, galaxies are huge in DBZ. Milky Way alone has 200 billion stars in it.
>>82247517
to be fair he wasn't in his muscly form when bulma used the scouter
>>82249024
>Remember Dragon Ball started with the basis of martial arts?
Yeah and it was the best show of the franchise
>>82249092
>mah headcanon is true because I say so
No, there are 4 galaxies as of the original. Toryployama just forgot like he does everything and made it more because why not. This isn't Green Lantern either that they're filed away under sectors. And how the fuck do you know how many stars there are in the DBZverse Milky Way?
>>82241610
While I do like Luffy more, Plas would destroy him
>>82246141
No. It means fuck all. He can't hurt Plastic man
>>82247517
Powerlevels ARE bullshit. And Roshi wasn't using his muscle mode, he was pretty much in base.
In case you didn't understand the point about the scooters or Ki control, Z fighters don't usually have their Ki at full power like Frieza's grunts. They only power up when fighting, that's why Raditz looked at gohan and he had shit tier Ki and then a second later Gohan was on 1.5k
>>82249424
>headcanon
The 4 galaxies is your headcannon, they tell you each Supreme Kai watches over a quadrant of the universe.
At least read the manga if your dub was that bad. At this point it looks you are just parroting memes.
>>82249424
They're called quadrants. The only thing I remember where they're called galaxies is in the Broly movie.
And the hing about the stars in the Milky Way comes from Jaco's book
>>82249648
Guess Roshi is just a fucking coward then by not fighting the saiyans or going to namek
>>82241610
Plastic Man is crazy powerful because he is literally plastic.
But Luffy is... also literally plastic so I don't know the difference between them except for Luffy's Haki.
Is Plastic Man much for willpower because I always got the impression he'd rather not fight if he can. In which case Haki could just knock him out.
>>82241490
Second
>>82241430
No. Goku is literally faster than time now.
>>82241430
Honestly, no bullshit? Current Goku(pic related) would win against most versions of Superman, he's lose against the most absurd ones but those can be counted with one hand and some are not even superman but some retarded power given to him.
Honestly I'm more impressed about Hit freezing time in freezed time. It's cool.
>>82246515
>>82246552
You guys do have to remember that Goku also took a supreme beating before Frieza got tired.
>>82249424
Regardless of whether toriyama forgot, it was still retconned In jaco's manga and super. How you think that's "headcanon" is beyond me
>>82249794
I was really glad Hit ended up becoming a bro. The dude seemed like Coldsteel at first, but he was the best U6 character
>>82249794
>Honestly, no bullshit? Current Goku(pic related) would win
Here we fucking go
>against most versions of Superman
Well fuck me, a sensible man, it recognize Superman is not some amalgamation and that Goku can't beat all characterizations that exist of Superman.
We should argue what is the breaking point of the current Goku or what other Marvel/DC characters could defeat him.
Goku
Superman has no immunity to magic/supernatural/Chi/Ki based attacks. The kamehameha wave, which has been shown to possibly engulf entire planets would kill superman.
As for speed, it is hard to say, but goku and superman are most likely near equal in terms of raw speed not counting instant transmission
>>82249424
>No, there are 4 galaxies as of the original.
There are four quadrants you retard, the galaxy thing was filler.
>kids that watched dbz or followrd JL cartoon at my school back in the day
>dbz kids went on to be weeaboo losers that thought not being fat meant you were a lean ninja/sayan
>superman kids went on to do sports and get in shape
>weeaboo feels need to tell a superman fan superman is stupid and japan is great and dbz blah blah blah
>superman guy stays calm and just shrugs it off
>weeaboo goes over 9000 and hits superman
>superman kid a little hurt but a lot pissex
>hits weeaboo kid one time dislocating his jaw and KOing him
>walks off with S emblem on his tee shirt
Until I see a fandom encounter in front of my eyes that proves otherwise, Superman always wins.
>>82249011
>>82249424
Nice faggot
>>82248750
Guy on the bottom left kind of looks like Ultron.
>>82250016
Nice try*
>>82250005
I've yet to see a supesfag that wasn't some weedy little faggot like the DBZ fags.
And no, ripped people with shirts of the respective series aren't part of the fandom, they most likely bought the shirt as a cheap gym shirt or because it was nostalgic.
>>82249928
>No immunity to Chi/Ki
But... Ki is not magic. Ki is basically pressurized air given physical form. It's life energy which is an extension of one's physical body so its like a punch from far away. It's similar to a Hadouken, its more akin to getting hit with a cannonball.
Superman vs flash. Now that would be fun.
>>82245220
Considering how ki works in the DC Universe, Goku would just be a stronger alien Karate Kid. Nowhere near as strong as he is in the DBZ universe, but nothing to sneeze at either.
>>82246515
>Still means Goku can die to arms fire if he isn't paying attention making him super fucking weak when you think about it.
A laser beam made by Frieza(who has super technology) is not the same as "fire arms" anon. Hell a laser beam is already pretty powerful by firearms standard.
>Batman could kick his ass without any shenanigans, just stealth and a tranquilizer gun.
Goku can feel Ki(every living being has it) so stealth isn't a solution.
You should watch Dragon Ball sometimes so that you don't spout things that makes 0 sense.
>>82246552
You don't understand Goku's character right? You probably watched the dub where he was superman.
He couldn't care less about Frieza going back to his ways as long as he gets stronger and puts up a better fight next time, you do remember Vegeta killed his friends and Goku let him go just to fight him again right?
>>82250005
>>82250119
>Goku joins the JL
>Becomes the water boy since he is a bitch
Kek
>>82250005
Holy Shit. This.
Dragon Ball fans tend to be fat, disgusting little pussies. Specially in Mexico.
>>82249928
>but goku and superman are most likely near equal in terms of raw speed not counting instant transmission
pretty sure Superman is faster. He's not Flash levels of speed but he's pretty much the fastest non speedster in DC. and the Instant Transmission is kind of useless against him. just on the fact that Goku needs to focus and concentrate to use it.
>>82249657
>>82249698
>>82249856
Fair enough I've seen the dub and even then it's been years so my memory isn't the best. Still doesn't change the fact Toriyama changed it from being smaller to bigger
>>82250016
>As of the original
Learn to read complete sentences faggot
>>82249011
>>82249424
4 quadrants, north, south, east, west. It has to do with chinks and their myths. Like the white tiger, dragon, turtle and some other shit like that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spqDRDgUIew
>>82250192
>Specially in Mexico.
That's because they really love their Dragon Balls anon. There's a reason the term "mexi beam" exists in Salty Bets.
Who wins between DIO with his stand THE WORLD and Adam Sandler from click?
>>82250238
>just on the fact that Goku needs to focus and concentrate to use it.
That's just when he wants to teleport to some faraway place.
>>82250284
Adam Sandler, before the fight he just goes into the menu and deletes DIO.
>>82250284
Now that you mentioned it.
Heaven DIO is pants on head retarded he could take both Superman and Goku at the same time.
>>82250238
First of all Goku is able to fight Beerus who is billions of times FTL so he's not slow.
Second, pic related
>>82250265
Jesus christ that Dragon is STTGL tier.
>>82250418
When did I say Goku was slow. I just said that Superman is faster.
>>82250508
He's not.
>>82250508
Just saying because some people think Goku is not fast. Also i'm pretty sure Clark needs to speed up to reach those levels and I don't know if he can fight at those speeds, while in Dragon ball they actually fight at those speeds.
>>82250561
>He's not
Supes flew a thousand times faster than light speed.
>>82250579
Not all Supermans are that fast.
>>82249787
>>82249794
Join the club
>people ITT are unironically defending capeshit
>>82250607
Why would purposely bring up weaker versions of Superman? Should we also bring up kid Goku too?
>>82250579
>Supes flew a thousand times faster than light speed.
And Beerus flew billions of times faster than light speed.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=26376
>>82250190
You are a retard but this is an interesting scenario.
Would Goku join the Justice League?
Would he invited to begin with?
Would Batman try to police him?
>>82250679
>people ITT are unironically defending weebshit
>>82250579
Goku is faster than time.
>>82250685
Every Goku is the same Goku
Not all Supes are the same Supes.
It should really be the main Supes vs Goku rather than combining them all into one.
>>82244846
Goku's stupidity was the problem versus Buu as he let it get out hand.
Goku's stupidity was the problem versus Cell as he let it get out of hand.
Raditz was of a magnitude more powerful than anything Earth had seen at that point the main cast that counted (ie, Goku, Piccolo, Krillin, and Tien) passed Raditz after only a year of training.
You also forgot Goku couldn't beat Vegeta without help either, as Yajirobe's cheap shot and a falling naked Gohan was what ended that fight.
>>82250735
>Goku's stupidity was the problem versus Cell as he let it get out of hand.
Actually, that was Vegeta.
>>82250722
>Every Goku is the same Goku
well, not quite. GT Goku is a different Goku from DB Super Goku
>>82250765
>GT
GT and the movies are straight up non canon unlike the DC multiverse.
>>82250701
Of course he wouldn't
"leagues" are for fascists
Goku is a free man, he fights to make himself more powerful and to protect his friends not because of some imperialist shit like the JL
>>82250630
Time hasn't stopped there
>It's like
Hit does stop time.
Anyways I was talking about this
>>82250800
>stopping time
>in a time stop
Damn.
>>82250800
so can someone explain why Hit stopping time for less than a second is a bigger deal than the toad ginyu stopping time for as long as he could hold his breath?
>>82250757
It was both of them that escalated things. Goku gave Cell a Senzu bean to make it a 'fair' fight against Gohan when everybody there knew Cell has no interest in fighting fair at all.
>>82250844
also Goku threw his fight against Cell, when even if he believed Gohan was stronger than him, he still could have at least softened Cell up more and given Gohan more time to study how Cell fought
>>82250701
>Would Goku join the Justice League?
No way unless he gets to fight the people there like everyday
>Would he invited to begin with?
He's a nice guy so they'd probably invite him before realizing he doesn't care about actively saving the world.
>Would Batman try to police him?
Definetely
Gokoo > Superman
How about we move on now?
>>82250844
>Goku gave Cell a Senzu bean to make it a 'fair' fight against Gohan
To be fair, that didn't really affect the outcome. Even a full powered Cell was no match against Gohan.
Vegeta on the other hand could have demolished Cell but instead chose to let him absorb 18 to test his new power.
>>82241430
Superman. Hands down.
People always compare Goku at his absolute peak to Superman from random points in his timeline. To be fair you'd have to compare them both at their prime.
Goku is the pigeon against the windshield of the speeding freight train that is superman.
>>82250829
Because Hit is trading blows with SSB+Kaio-Ken without using his assassin techniques and the other guy was weaker than kid Gohan.
>>82250829
Guldo was dead before Goku even got to Namek, and wasn't smart enough to actually just get the job done. He could have killed everybody several times over, but his cockiness got the best of him and he fell under pressure due to Krillin and Gohan figuring his trick out.
Superman's cooler.
>>82250874
>>82250701
Considering how pants on retarded Goku is. Batman would be completely justified in this scenario.
>>82250906
>Fair
>comparing non canon or alternate universe depictions of Supes rather than main vs main
"Fair" isn't a word that comes up often to Supesfags is it.
>>82250722
>Please pick a weaker version to make my side look better please
That statement is vague as fuck and you know it. And we have been picking relatively the same Superman. Most of the feats here are from the main books relatively speaking
>>82250906
Superman Prime isn't even the main Superman
could Goku beat Darkseid?
>>82250959
>Most of the feats here are from the main books relatively speaking
Like fuck you have, even then you're not even taking into account the various reboots and such that have happened over the years and are just lumping them all into one character.
It doesn't work like that at all you retard.
>>82250989
Dude, get out of here.
>>82250989
If Goku couldn't even defeat Superman, how do you expect him to defeat the guy that can beat Superman?
>>82250989
Nah. He gets his shit pushed in and if he is lucky he dies instead of getting corrupted and fucked silly by Anti Life.
>>82251016
Darkseid.
The only villain that will give you an ass kicking while you get a hypersonic tugjob.
>>82250936
Eh it's not like Goku is a bad guy he has saved plenty of people over the course of the series but it's just that he does it for his own reasons or because he can't stand people being hurt in front of him.
Thing is that Goku kills villains that he doesn't find interesting(as in, they could fight him again).
Yeah Batman would be justified but like I said Goku wouldn't care about joining a moralfag group.
I can't see the justice league antagonizing him unless he pulls something like giving the enemy a senzu bean.
>>82251017
does the anti-life equation work on dead people? because Goku always has the option of dying to fight round two as a ghost.
>>82251016
He can obviously beat Superman. I thought we had already agreed on that? Plus, you're not even taking into account Goku's SS5.
>>82250955
Given how many reboots there have been (and how many times that has happened specifically to depower supes), it is only fair to compare peak to peak.
Goku in his current form would destroy N52 Superman. Just like n52 Superman would destroy Saiyan Saga Goku.
>>82246511
Get back to me when GOKU actually does it. Let me clue you weebs in, but the universe was NEVER in danger. Two shock waves from punches, then Goku figures out how to not make the waves. BUT THEN, the thing that no DBZ fan ever remembers, is there was a THIRD WAVE from the colliding ki attacks after that. Identical to the first two, yet nothing happened. Nothing was done to stop the wave, it passed over everything and dissipated, and the universe was fine. Old Kai was wrong, get over it.
>>82251046
>SS5
The fuck are you on?
Which comic universe would Super Buu do the most damage to before he's destroyed, DC or Marvel?
How many heroes would he absorb before people learn his tricks? Keep in mind that every person he absorbs gives Super Buu their intelligence and most of their power.
>>82251044
>does the anti-life equation work on dead people?
It works on Gods and Cosmic Entities.
>>82250800
>Hit does stop time
>Tenth of a second
Bullshit he does.
>>82251073
either anon is trolling or they think ssj blue is ssj 5, and ssj god is ssj 4, when it's more like a prestige class
>>82251062
>it is only fair to compare peak to peak.
Except that's not fair at all is it?
The current canon version of Superman doesn't have, and never will have access to those abilities, just like Goku will never have access to all of his non canon shit like
Big Bang Kamehameha
SS4
Gogeta
And so on.
>>82251072
No matter what the universe was never in danger as Whis would have prevented it.
Whis is actually the most powerful being in Super at the moment, Beerus even calls him his better.
>>82251077
to the best of my knowledge most/all of those were alive at the time. has it ever been shown working on a dead god or cosmic entity?
>>82251073
>>82251098
Do you have ANY experience with the DBZ franchise? Seriously, I recommend it. You might learn something.
>>82251094
>>Tenth of a second
The last time we knew was 0.5(he grows in matters of seconds during his fight with Goku), Goku beat time stop and then Hit stopped time in stopped time.
>>82251094
>tenth of a second
>he doesn't know that he's more than quadrupled that in an extremely short amount of time as well as being able to freeze someone selectively as with Goku being frozen while Hit already froze time
Nigga has two layers of time freeze going on.
>>82251094
it's actual time stop because they talk about how, with time manipulation being illegal, Hit should be arrested by the Galaxy Police, but they're too scared of him to try.
If it didn't actually count as time manipulation they would have said so, since then they wouldn't be shirking their duty
>>82251072
The narrator said that the universe would be destroyed. Old Kai and Whis said the same thing.
And what you said never happened.
>>82251120
The super saiyan scale literally only goes up to fucking three.
SSJ4 is non canon.
God and Super Blue are variations on the base form and Super Saiyan think of them like slide evolutions from digimon.
could Superman beat Kid Buu without resorting to chucking him into the source wall?
>>82251114
I remember Toriyama saying that, to put it on a scale, if Beerus was a 10, SSJGSSJ Goku and Vegeta would both be 8 (and Whis has even said that the two of them could pretty soundly kick Beerus' ass if they worked together), and Whis would be a 15.
>>82251183
Has Superman ever completely atomized an enemy before? That's pretty much the only way to get rid of both Buu and Cell aside from maybe the wall like you said.
Doesn't superman always gets stronger, cause he alway's absorbs sunlight?
My bets on kingdom come superman or any older version of supes
>>82251114
But the king of all universes just showed up, Bills shat on his pants when he saw him.
>>82251252
I actually haven't seen the last recent episodes, so didn't know.
>>82251243
absorbing sunlight has diminishing returns. after a certain point he stops getting stronger by any significant margin and only stockpiles more energy (meaning it takes more for his internal reserves to run out if he's cut off)
The only way for Superman to overcome that, if I recall right, is to meditate inside the sun for a for years
>>82251222
>SSJGSSJ Goku and Vegeta would both be 8
This was literally never said.
What he said was(after BoG)
Whis=15
Beerus=10
Goku=6
Even then that's not canon, in Super Whis says that if Beerus is a castle then Goku a Vegeta are a small tree.
>and Whis has even said that the two of them could pretty soundly kick Beerus' ass if they worked together
This also never happened, Whis says that they might have a chance if they both work together. Key word "might".
>>82250996
Oh like you fucks are constantly bringing up Super and leaving GT far far away?
Notice two you sperg, I said "relatively" meaning not quite the same the same but similiar enough for comparison. Learn what the fucking word means because you obviously don't. And two nobody has bothered bringing shit like Red Sun Superman or DCAU Supes because it will only muddy things.
Nealy every feat has been "relatively" from the same mainline of books. The main universe DC wants to focus their "canon" stories on.
Which returns me to what I said in the other post. Do you WANT a weaker Superman for Goku to beat? Because he can't handle the regular universe's Supes?
>>82251117
Death itself is a very important element of the equation. Which means that no realm, dimesion or part of your universe is safe if someone gets the power of the Anti Life Equation. Spirits and souls that carry knowledge of the Anti Life Equation can even bring their will into the physical world. Darkseid's spirit murdered the soul of Dan Turpin when he took control of his body.
Yuga Khan himself used the Anti Life equation to feel the pain of the Old Gods in whatever shithole they went after they died.
loneliness + alienation + fear + despair + self-worth ÷ mockery ÷ condemnation ÷ misunderstanding x guilt x shame x failure x judgment n=y where y=hope and n=folly, love=lies, life=death, self=dark side
It can brainwash your soul, it can brainwash resurrected people while they are dead and it can fucked with everyone.
>>82251252
That doesn't mean a thing, Piccolo shitted his pants when Supreme Kai appeared in Buu Saga, Piccolo was and is stronger than him. It's about the hierarchy, not power.
Not saying the midget isn't powerful, just saying that Beerus stopping his shit doesn't mean Zeno is stronger.
Also
>Bills
>>82251180
honestly I feel like SSJ4, or some variation of it, should be canon. The overall concept that the final form for saiyans reunites them with their inner great ape is too good to pass up
>>82251336
Super is a canon continuation (for better or worse) while GT isn't though.
>>82251355
gotcha
>>82251336
>Oh like you fucks are constantly bringing up Super and leaving GT far far away?
>Super
>Non-canon
>side universe
Now you're just fucking grasping.
You had a point with GT but no one ever brings up GT because
1) It's non canon
2) It's a fucking weaker version of Goku anyway
>Because he can't handle the regular universe's Supes?
You aren't even picking a regular universe Superman you complete retard.
>>82251222
>Whis would be a 15
Thankfully, we can sate him with ice cream.
>>82251336
GT isn't canon you retard and it never was. Super further reinforced this known fact.
>>82251362
As long as they get rid of the Pink fur, eyeshadow, black hair and clothes storage system.
It was an interesting idea but not Super Saiyan.
>>82251362
I think SSJ4 would have been more accepted if they handled it better.
No magic pants, no unexplained reversing of Goku's de-aging (that reasserts itself when Goku reverts out of SSJ4), and no asspull of Vegeta having Bulma whip up a machine to jump start to that form immediately.
>>82251409
And cat dick
>>82251040
>Thing is that Goku kills villains that he doesn't find interesting(as in, they could fight him again).
Almost all of the characters Goku killed were during Dragon Ball. I'm pretty sure his only kill when he was a fully grown adult was Buu.
Goku isn't against killing, but he's very unlikely to kill someone unless they push him.
>>82251480
He did kill Frieza the second time round, that's all that comes to mind as an adult that wasn't filler or non canon though.
>>82251432
>>82251448
fur was red though
I agree on the other points though.
>>82251448
the Vegeta part was the worst. If he had built upto it it would have been a goodish ending.
>>82251448
>and no asspull of Vegeta having Bulma whip up a machine to jump start to that form immediately.
That was the worst shit ever.
Not only was it out of character for Vegeta because his whole thing was attaining power on his own, even Super did that shit better where he reluctantly threw away his pride to train with Whis. Anyway, it also came out of batshit nowhere and Vegeta "decided" to act like a monkey.
>>82251362
I'm of the opinion that SSJ4 is what the God Form should have looked like. the piker Kaioken aura and blue hair are the gayest thing I've ever seen from Dragon Ball.
>>82249713
Basically, if he can defeat all those dudes Nappa and Vegeta at the start of Z would have been quick work for him.
>>82251554
Eh, SSB still looks a whole lot better than 4 because it actually resembles a Super Saiyan form.
4 is just way out there.
>>82251364
>>82251410
>>82251396
You dense fuckers.
GT was a continuation for the time. It's since been disregarded but it was a continuation of DBZ. Super is by proxy, it's "reboot" nuking the latter from existence. And even if it isn't, it's virtually the same thing as you saying the various DC elseworlds are being mentioned.
>You aren't even picking a regular universe Superman
Then pray tell what your definition of "regular" universe? What makes them different? Why shouldn't I use post-crisis and nu52 for comparisons in feats despite their feats being "relatively" similar in scale?
>>82251586
I think it would be better because it come off more "Saiyan God" to me then a pink aura and blue hair.
>>82251156
Big surprise, DBS is such shit that even the narrator can be wrong. And it did happen, retard. Episodes 12 and 13.
>>82251480
He didn't fight a lot of enemies as an adult.
Helped with Piccolo killing his brother(and himself)
Broke Nappa's spine
Let Vegeta go(to fight him again)
Did the same as Nappa with the Ginyu
Didn't bother to kill Frieza
Couldn't do shit against Cell
Regretted about killing Buu.
Couldn't do shit against Beerus
Killed Frieza
>>82251288
Shit! I didn't take that into account
>asking a board that's obviously going to be bias towards Superman
man these threads are cancer.
who would win, live action goku or live action aang?
>>82251126
>>82251144
>>82251148
And the Flash ran so fast he accidentally traveled backwards in time, fucked with it and created an entirely new timeline.
Time Man from Archie Megaman has a more impressive time altering ability.
>>82241430
Batman!! It will always be Batman.
>>82251681
>Said the angry weeb that probably is mexican.
>>82241430
If it's just current canon, Goku, though Superman could still win because Goku's a retard.
If we factor in bullshit like Thought Robot, Superman wins easily.
>>82251604
>GT was a continuation for the time
You stupid nigger it was NEVER canon, not then, not ever.
There are so many contradictions in GT that can't happen that it shouldn't even be called fucking Dragonball.
>Super is by proxy, it's "reboot" nuking the latter from existence.
Are you fucking retarded?
Unlike GT it's not even a continuation, it takes place in the years between Buu and the very last episode of Z. It's more like Dragon Ball Z - The lost years.
It has not and never will be a reboot of fucking GT because not only does it not take it's place but GT was never canon to begin with.
>>82251720
>This character does something means this other character doing another thing can't be cool
Fuck off retard.
Goku could easily take supes but even IF Supes was more powerful, king kai would just tell goku his weakness then Goku would use his instant transmission to teleport Supes near a red sun. There really isnt a debate.
>>82251720
>Not knowing that Hit is the only person who can kill top speed Flash
DOUBLE
LAYERS
NIGGA
>>82251775
Flash just runs faster
>>82251016
>Darkseid
>Capable of beating Superman
How many times has he gotten John Cena'd by Supes? Poor guy's basically a joke now.
Depends on how much Goku knows about Superman and how much Goku wants to just win. The second Superman makes contact with Goku he could just instant trans-locate to a high desposit of kryptonite far any from any yellow sun and it's GG immediately.
Thing is Goku would never do that since he's a nice guy and more importantly wants a good fair fight. Thing is going by the logic of how the characters would act rather than just their ability to kill the other with their abilities they wouldn't be fighting to begin with.
>>82251744
>If it's just current canon, Goku, though Superman could still win because Goku's a retard.
I don't see Superman taking advantage of Goku being a good guy to beat him down.
The only way he can beat Goku is doing the same Frieza did, begging for mercy on the ground and then when Goku reaches out his hand fucking him in the back.
Even then, the whole point of Whis' training is about making their body react automatically so that they don't drop their guards anymore, that whole Frieza situation was just to show Goku being too chill and he learned a bit when Frieza killed everyone.
>>82241430
The one who literally lives for AKA : Son Goku. AKA: Kakarot.
>>82251801
>Hit adds another layer
>>82251755
Do you even know what we're arguing?
>>82251861
Yes because I started the entire chain here, fucktard.
>>82249794
>Honestly I'm more impressed about Hit freezing time in freezed time. It's cool.
>>82251745
>not mah Dragon Ball
Sounds to me I've just hit a autistic nerve
>>82251836
Speed Force shatter the layer and then the entire universe is rebooted.
![tumblr_inline_ng3dxmB9D71qf2l5c[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ihYgncg.jpg "tumblr inline ng3dxmB9D71qf2l5c[1]")
>>82251908
>>82241430
Goku wins
>>82251889
And I just stated Superman and Flash are capable of pretty much the same thing >>82250630
Why does it bother more than one character is capable of that feat?
>>82251933
SPEED FORCE
>>82251968
>being so fast time appears still
>being the same as stopping time
For the record, Goku could do that and Hit froze Goku.
>>82251968
They are capable of stopping time in time stop? I didn't know superman and flash had time powers.
And that is not time stopped
>It's like the whole world has frozen
>It's like
>>82251986
Another layer.
Also speedforce is just DC bullshit, can you say it works in other universes?
![tumblr_inline_mw8jc3bj171srzqrm[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/NfLmV1S.png "tumblr inline mw8jc3bj171srzqrm[1]")
>>82251986
>>82252029
IT'S SPEED FORCE. IT AIN'T GONNA EXPLAIN SHIT
>>82251908
Hit improves again and eventually gains the ability to reverse time.
Hit is basically the Speed Force bullshit of Dragonball.
>>82252069
Nah, .5 over .5 is meaningless. Completely meaningless. Hit is a bitch ass nigga and so is Goku.
Hell, so is all of Japan. Niggas a bunch of slant eyed bitches.
>>82252090
Japan invented Demonbane, who is Thought Robot tier
>>82252107
>Demonbane
>thought robot tier
Demonbane goes beyond that, to the point where the Thought Robot could very well be a DC's version of it.
who would win in a fight, weak-electromagnetic-force or gravity?
>>82251992
>>82252005
>Dragon Ball isn't drenched in hyperbole
That just means DC writers know how to use proper grammar. If Goku can move faster than how he is perceived than he is not moving faster than it but moving a higher speed of it.
And again Flash traveled not just seconds but fucking years and decades backwards in time.
>>82252107
>>82252124
TR is above Demonbane. Bitch is affected by laws of the universes he visits. TR isn't. TR is absolute. Fuck those little beta max chinks.
Can't do shit right since the bombing.
![anigif_enhanced-buzz-22218-1381331519-30[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/pxCGa62.gif "anigif enhanced-buzz-22218-1381331519-30[1]")
>>82250090
>Ki is not magic
>Ki is pressurized air
>Ki is life energy
>>82252158
I don't think you understand how bullshit Demonbane is.
There could even be a version of Demonbane being piloted by thought robot Supes which is made from hundreds of tightly woven thought robots with Galactus' blood and Goku's Gi.
>>82252158
>TR is absolute
TR is powerless against non-evil things
>>82252158
>>82252233
>>82252262
>Demonbane
>TR
ok
>>82252158
>Bitch is affected by laws of the universes he visits.
Bitch Demonbane IS the universe.
>>82252169
magic exists in the dragonball universe and is categorically different from ki manipulation.
For instance, Buu's ability to turn people into chocolate is magic, and thus would work on Superman
>>82252233
Nah, nigga. I read the whole stupid shit. Demonbane AKA the retarded robot that weebs jerk of to, had to fit with the laws of the multiple universes he was crossing while fighting. Bitch was never above those laws. TR is "Fuck you. I win" impersonated. Demonbane small fry next to that shit.
And even then. Both of them are next to nothing to Empty Hand. Nigga can simply say: "Fuck you guys. You ain't winning shit. I'm out of here".
Japan can't do jackshit right.
>>82252278
And yet he keep getting altered by the laws of those realities. Demonbane a fucking bitch like all the japanese fucks in existence. Fuck your overrated robot piece of shit. You weeb trash.
Japan is the filth of Asia.
>>82252312
>And yet he keep getting altered by the laws of those realities.
>version of Demonbane exists that doesn't
Demonbane is literally unbeatable nigga.
What don't you get about this?
If it doesn't exist it exists to Demonbane.
If it's Demonbane's weakness, it isn't another Demonbane's weakness.
If it's justice, well guess what?
It's fucking Demonbane!
>>82252369
>Demonbane is literally unbeatable nigga.
Nah, i wipe my ass with that shit and he just got beaten.
Look, i'm imagining that he is getting his anus shattered by Papa Smurf and he is defeated. Like ahaha clap if you believe. Like pay a writer and he is beaten. Imaginary characters fighting!
You bitch ass niggas need some pussy in yo lives and stop mastrubating to drawings.
>>82252441
The fuck are you talking about?
If you imagine Demonbane getting his ass kicked then you haven't imagined Demonbane simple as that.
>>82251229
He could, but he doesn't really. But with heat vision 100% he could do it.
>>82252369
Heck, i could print this shit>>82252278
Piss on it and i won. And nothing you can do to change that. Fuck, i could even write this fanfic here:
>One day Demonbane was walking down the cosmos and the faggot lost all his power and got raped by Barracuda from the Punisher Max. He got his body covered in spunk and all his world shattered that day. He is no more the most pwerfull being on the universe. PS: Anime is shit.
>>82251288
What about sundips or blue sun then?
>>82252470
Nah, i did. Demonbane is Demonbane even when he is no Demonbane. He is absolute therefore the image in my mind of him getting fucked by a giant fist is as canon as any other piece of trash placed on that shit.
>>82241430
Goku would destroy Superman now.
KKSSB >>>>> SSB >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mainstream Superman > SSJ3 > SSJ 2 > SSJ > base
>>82252557
Nah. Anime will never beat Comics. Anime is nothing but shit made for pedos
>>82244946
Saitama is basically an official version of that Power Man comic.
>>82252496
>>One day Demonbane was walking down the cosmos and the faggot lost all his power
If that shit happens then you know what?
You're Demonbane too!
The only thing that can beat a Demonbane is another Demonbane with the ability to out bullshit that Demonbane.
>>82252590
No. I'm not. There is a clear distintion between a huge a nigga like me and demonbane.
demombane gets fucked by my mind. And i am not him.
... For My Hand is Empty. You stupid little man.
>>82252622
Like it or not, if you can affect Demonbane you're a damn Demonbane.
Your brain is even a little pilot.
>>82252658
No. Demobane is bellow TR and Empty Hand. Period. If i say so is because it is like that. I am a vessel of the Oblivion Machine and so are you.
And mechas are shit anyway.
>>82248672
...Did Superman survive?
>>82248750
Superboy Prime is a little stronger than regular Superman though.
I think Superman could tank a universe exploding though. He managed to hold raw bleed stuff inside his gut. That's some high-level abstract shit. The only other people that could do that were Monitors.
>>82247486
You couldn't have missed the point harder if you tried.
>>82252698
TR is a Demonbane.
Empty Hand wishes he was on the same tier as Elder God Demonbane. A Shining Trapezohedron will seal him away and make his powers a part of Demonbane in an instant, and that shit can be summoned at any point in or outside of time and space through any multiverse, omniverse, hypercrisis etc.
Demonbane itself can expand infinitely with no limits.
Then Demonbane can summon and infinite army of Demonbanes from any existing or Non-existing universe each with their own Shining Trapezohedron, did I mention that when those things clash they have enough power to create a multiverse with their own laws of nature, physics, elements.
Then there's the fact that EG Demonbane is non-corporeal and exists across EVERY universe imaginable and not so it's not possible to kill him in any way, shape or form.
I don't think you know how bullshit Demonbane is when you started this conversation. It could delete the infinity of existence and replace it with a double stuffed oreo that rotates in fucking 15 different dimensions at least
>>82252965
What about full power franklin richards? If he said "I'm a demonbane" and then said "all other dbs are bitchmade" would that kill them all?
>>82252983
>implying Franklin has that kind of power
Incursions made him a bitch.
Incursions are the dust on Demonbane's visor.
>>82253014
Kid Franklin is different from Full Power Franklin
>>82253033
Still can't do shit against Incursions. That shit affected everything.
>>82252965
>TR is a Demonbane.
No, he is Superman. Demonbane is a faggot.
>>82252965
>>82252965
>Incorporating The Empty Hand into yourself
That is the worst thing you could possibly do. The Empty Hand is all about putting you on the Oblivion Machine forever and ever.
You don't defeat him with force or through mockery. Ultra tried that. When your fiction becomes a never ending cycle of power-wank it just feeds him and his Gentry. The only way to defeat him is to not feed him, to ignore him and create good stories.
Demonbane can't win because Demonbane is not a meaningful story. He exists only as a meme for never ending power wank to fill the hole in weeaboos lives.
Demonbane winning means The Empty Hand wins.
I don't think you understand exactly what the Empty Hand is.
>>82253014
>Incursions
What was the deal with that? What was the purpose?
>>82252965
Wouldn't it end up creating Demonbanes that would turn against it? Any Demonbane that could exist would include Demonbanes that where stronger than Demonbane and beyond its control and wanted to destroy it.
>>82253121
This shit comes up way too often with Demonbane.
Literally the only way to beat a Demonbane is with another Demonbane which means that one is going to get it's ass pounded faster than a white guy in an all black prison.
>>82252965
>Thought Robot is Demonbane
But he isn't. The only reason the TR beat Mandrak was because he was the idea of super hero, the mystical idea of creating the impossible in fiction and bringing it to life.
You can throw in numbers and feats but unless Demonbane can operate on the poetic level of Monitor Space he's as hopeless against something like the Empty Hand or Mandrak as the Monitors were. The monitor sphere is the hypostatic representation of the reader. You can create as many ultra-verses and fireworks as you want, it still remains grounded beneath the monitor sphere as much as what happens in comic book panels is forever bound by white borders.
In other words get back to me when Demonbane has to fight with the white spaces of his manga. That's what Superman fought against. And won.
>>82250005
>all this delusion
Kek, kids who read comic books are just as pathetic and twiggy as weeaboos and you know it.
>>82253101
To create drama. "Oh no! The Avengers have to murder an innocent Earth to save their own universe!"
In story the reason was blah blah Builders blah blah Beyonders blah blah Doom.
The real reason is that Hickman saw Bokurano and it gave him a boner.
>>82241430
A peak human has a power level of around 5
All-Star Superman shows Superman lifting 200 quintillion tons (quintillion - a one with 18 zeroes)with one arm, whereas the peak human could maybe lift 50 kg with one arm.
Therefore Superman's power level = 200 with 17 zeroes (0's) (I can't type it in because 4chan thinks the no.'s are spam)
Goku's power level (in Super Saiyan 3, like OP's pic) has a reported power level of 8,400,000,000
>>82253183
Nah
>>82241430
I still believe Goku would, simply because he is an actual martial artist. I don't think I've ever witnessed Superman actually use any style of fighting. He's a brawler.
>>82253197
Well, that was a goddamn waste of time.
>>82253176
>In other words get back to me when Demonbane has to fight with the white spaces of his manga.
Not him but you are aware that Demonbane defeated and sealed Azathoth right?
The thing that created everything from it's dreams?
TR fought the spaces of his comic, Demonbane fought the creator of them and everything else.
And won.
>>82253199
Edit: because it's Quintillion TONS and not quintillion kg's, it would actually be 200 with around 20 zeroes following.
>>82253199
Two problems with that.
The first is that no one takes power levels seriously. You're absolutely right, but don't expect a DBZ fan to back you.
The second is that 200 quintillion tons was just how much they could measure. He was doing that calmly with one hand. His actual strength is probably infinite.
>>82241610
Recommend me some plastic man
>>82253241
>The thing that created everything from it's dreams?
>Lovecraft creating anything
I bet you $1000 that Jack Kirby can mop the floor with that lanky piece of shit.
Just gonna leave this here and then laugh as Gokufags try and claim that pic related "doesn't count"
>>82253241
Things that create stuff out of dreams are on the god sphere, not the monitor sphere.
Dream as in the Endless Dream actually has a sphere in in. As do all gods from Lovecraft's Azathoth to Zeus.
I don't think you're getting what Monitors are.
>>82253299
>he thinks monitors are on the same level as Azathoth
Cute.
>>82253297
Yeah and Supes was "killed" by Doomsday.
>>82253320
Naaah. They are above.
>>82253297
The defense of "when his guard is down he turns into a giant pussy" actually hurts goku, because anyone even a little bit smart would trick him into putting his guard down
>>82253344
At least Supes doesn't need Dragon Balls to come back from the dead.
>>82253355
Look, Azathoth wakes up?
That's it, all that is, was and ever shall be is gone including your monitors.
All that is left will be Azathoth
Across every level of existence, from the readers to the ink that makes the pages. Gone.
>>82253320
>He thinks bootleg Lovecraft could even conceive of the Monitor Sphere.
Next you'll tell me he could take a Grant Morrison 5D Imp.
>>82253392
Nah. He wakes up and one sphere dies. Big Deal. Dream just looks at the ugly thing and goes: "Hey, big guy. Go back to sleep".
And the Monitors would look at it all and say: "Ok. That was... something. I guess".
>>82253392
>if this thing from this other setting that is not this setting wakes up, it will kill both settings
Sure it will.
>>82253424
>And the Monitors would look at it all and say: "Ok. That was... something. I guess".
Hey Jerry, your universe died.
Fuck, again!? What happened, did some dipshit investigators wake up azie again?
>>82253392
>>82253421
>Guy that created and is the omniverse thinking he can do as he please with it.
So he's basically the Monitor Vampire Superman beat in Beyond 3-D?
>Oh no not all of existence being destroyed reaching into the 4th wall!
The Monitors have dealt with this like what, five times now?
>>82241635
i mean, uncle grandpa is an extra dimensional, reality bending being. so yeah uncle grandpa would probably win
>>82253463
Holy Shit, Jerry! Get your shit together! You can't let fucking Eldritch Abominations kill your universe every time!
>>82253392
How many multiverses has he destroyed?
Because post-Multiversity there's this weird New Agey "infinity multiverses inside infinite multiverses all comics are real" thing going on.
Also the localized DC multiverse at least has built in semi-organic defense systems like living creature to deal with super-cosmic threats. This manifests from the Thought Robot on down to the Seven Soldiers of Victory.
It's very, very, very weird. Animu-Azathoth would just be a little corner of Grant Morrison's fifth dimensional wild ride.
>>82253467
>>82253463
>>82253437
Multiply the outer spheres by infinity.
Keep in mind that this isn't Lovecraft Azathoth but Demonbane Azathoth.
Everything in that series is like the speedforce on enough heroin to kill something that couldn't die.
i want a real fight like the 3 stooges vs the battletoads
>>82253493
What do you know about running universes George? Your universe has exploded way more than mine has! And don't even get me started on Kramer and Elaine's universes.
>>82253526
>Because post-Multiversity there's this weird New Agey "infinity multiverses inside infinite multiverses all comics are real" thing going on.
Even those idiotic fanfics are canon and real. Even the specks of minor ideas can create entire new universes. Because Grant Morrison said so and DC editors can't understand a single word he is saying.
>>82253560
still would be more interesting than batman v supes
>>82253548
Hey, Hey, Hey. Those incursions were not my fault, Jerry!
>>82253567
This thread is more interesting than BvS.
The last shit I took was more interesting than BvS.
Total Biscuit's cancer is more interesting than BvS.
There's nothing on this planet that's less interesting than BvS.
>>82253560
>DC Editors can't understand
I remember him trying to explain it to Dan Didio who could not understand what "infinite multiverses" meant.
>>82253591
well... idk the newest fantastic snore wasn't exactly... good... at all
>>82253548
Hey, Hey, Hey! Those Incursions were not my fault, Jerry! They were Newman's idea!
>>82253614
>Incomprehensible Scotish Words
>>82253616
That's at the same tier, maybe a smidge higher.
Not less.
i imagine it to go exactly like goku v pikkon fight.
>>82241524
What's the term for horrible writing that only means to jerkoff the man child nature of an audience? Other than the overt use of exposition, this is the worst shit I've had to read in some time.
>>82253591
May i dare say that Angry Joe being a bitch about this movie was more entertaining that the movie itself?
>>82253648
maybe. now thats a real battle. BvS vs Fantastic snore.
>>82253675
Then you haven't read anything in a long time, newfriend.
>>82253676
pixels reviews were more interesting than bvs.
>>82242381
ONE PUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNCH
>>82253676
Frustrated Frederico being a bitch is always more interesting than the subject matter.
Especially with the whole Wii U thing.
>>82243139
His name is Monaka.
In his race's language his name means "he of great Ponta"
Ponta means nipples.
>>82242659
>Be fusion of strongest Saiyans in universe
>Get turned into candy by actual magic
>Still have autonomy, life, speaking capability, and whole amount of ki
You're right, Ki is stronger than magic.
Goku Wins
>>82253713
Holy Shit. Constipated Pedro reviewing BvS was glorious. The way wanted to cry.
Godzilla.
>>82253539
>Multiply the outer spheres by infinity
They already are. I don't think you understand what the monitor mind is. And what the god sphere is or anything about the new cosmology really.
Are the multiverses in Demonbane organic hypersigils that overlap on the vibrational frequencies of a symphony? Are they living creatures that grow and adapt to their environment?
Because there's much more to fighting than being big, if Azathoth even is that big. I have my doubts (because how can a thing that sleeps and dreams be beyond dream?) But even if he is that big he's absolutely fucked if he tries to mess with the DC multiverse. It's just too damn weird for him. It's a living being that knows how to align its chakras in such a way as to defend itself.
He really just seems like the Gentry if he's as big as you say. And they didn't even need to use the Thought Robot for that. The Multiverse fought it all off on its own. How many multiverses has he killed? The Empty Hand has Marvel confirmed as one and he's likely done in others given his relationship to Monitor Mind and The Hand.
>>82241430
I don't like Superman, but anyone who doesn't say Superman is an idiot.
>>82253769
the correct answer is The Flesh. hes super strong, and super naked
>>82253754
>How many multiverses has he killed?
It's not about how many he has killed, its about how many he has created.
And he literally created them all, The DC multiverse, the montiors, the Marvel universe, the one above all, the Valiant universe, the Dragonball universe.
All of them.
This entire post just describes what Azathoth has done for the entirety of existence.
Why is it so hard to accept that it was written higher than all of them?
>>82253828
>And he literally created them all,
Nah, he didn't. Like i said before. I bet you $1000 that Jack Kirby can beat the shit out of that lanket of Lovecraft.
>>82253828
>Written higher than all of them
Fanfiction doesn't count anon.
He may have created YOUR Monitor Mind but the Monitor Mind of true DC readers remains fanfic free.
Go wash your brain. How said is it that you believe a weeaboo Lovecraft god created all of fiction?
What a pathetic, gentrified Monitor Mind you have.
>>82253828
And according to Morrison the overvoid created them all. We can go back and forth like this all night.
>>82253844
>Lovecraft
This is beyond the realms of Lovecraft and Kirby.
>>82253880
>And according to Morrison the overvoid created them all.
And the overvoid was created by?Azathoth
>>82253877
bioshock infinite already solved this issue. its all created with bad writing and overindulgence
>>82253901
>This is beyond the realms of Lovecraft and Kirby.
No they are not. You gentrified idiot!
>>82253903
My God, Elizabeth was a fucking moron!
>>82253922
>No they are not. You gentrified idiot!
You're thinking too small anon. You need to see the bigger picture here, where the boundaries of fiction and reality are blurred.
>>82253951
I see the picture just fine. Is made of paper and ink.
>>82253957
>Is made of paper and ink.
Still too small, how do you expect to understand if you can't open your mind to the expanse?
>>82253957
Mine is made of pixels.
>>82253922
they both fucking fools. "oh man hes dead. we better fucking jump through into an unknown universe. oh shit we need to move these guns. MORE JUMPS!!" then that fucking disaster of dlc made it worse. "infinite" universes... except its more like theres 5
>>82253991
And sometimes is made of menstrual blood
>>82253828
>Hey Grant! Did Azathoth write Multiversity?
>>82253880
>Overvoid
Monitor Mind right? Which stands for the mind of the reader. It didn't create the DC universe. That was the "flaw" in creation. It just exists inside monitor mind as a work of fiction lodges itself in the in the mind of the reader.
The DC Multiverse created itself. Grant's big on the whole "organic fiction" concept remember? This is why the DC Multiverse is so stronk. It's self aware and alive and adapts to survive. Sometimes it shrinks down to 1 world. Other times it has a infinity. Now it has an infinity infinity.
>>82253951
Final Crisis and Ultra Comics did all that better than a lovecraft fanfic light novel.
You seriously only beat the Gentry in Multiversity if you stop being a faggot and make something of your life. Otherwise they win and infect your Monitor Mind and put you on the drip of the Oblivion Machine.
>>82253991
best adam sandler movie in the past 10 years.
>>82253986
Shut up Empty Hand. Nobody gives a shit about you.
Oh shit, i just lost.
>>82253903
Still haven't finished Infinite.
Or 1 and 2 for that matter.
I might just marathon them one day.
>>82254008
That's literally the DC Multiverse.
I'm not even joking.
>>82253951
>>82253986
CONFIRMED FOR GENTRY
Fuck off Intellectron. Give us back Ultra!
>>82254020
>I just lost
Do not fear them! Fight back! Remember the door swings both ways!
>>82254037
>I'm not even joking.
I know. Kismet once fucked Eternity. Wonder if that tiny baby reality is still an edgy teen?
>>82254022
bioshock 1 is the best gameplay and storywise. 2 is a solid game with a meh story for the most part. infinite has mostly awesome gameplay, but it has by far the worst story telling. IMHO, they set up this whole multiverse thing but the rules of it dont make sense and many of the character choices dont add up. in the end its a disappointment storywise. hell there isnt even an end boss. still, give it a play and see what you think. its worth it. the dlc blows hard balls tho. stealth in a first person action game... sure. it boils down to just abusing one plasmid the whole game.
>>82254076
Boy, love is great!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdzI-191xhU
>>82253828
>All of fiction was created by a dark god
Yes. Keep Jerking to your visual novel god. Let all of fiction kneel at his feet. Let all your dreams stream forth from a nightmare. Find security in power and strength and force.
Do it.
Slave.
>>82253957
We are the ones dreaming the dreamer.
>>82254111
>>82254076
The two cinematic universes are their children. The Marvel one is older and more mellow and and the DC one is younger and tries hard to act grown up to hand with his big bro.
Its a reverse of their parents relationship.
Like pottery, it rhyme.
This was one of the more productive Hypercrises threads we've had in a while.
>>82254169
it is a lot like pottery. that is correct
>>82254169
Then... all the DCEU needs is to grow up? Man, that makes sense
>>82254176
It was?
>>82254135
>We are the ones dreaming the dreamer
>Demonbane was the infection vector for our world
>Hellmachine wants us to waste our time arguing over who could kill who rather than anything
>Our dreams are nothing but constant death battles when we could be dreaming of paradises and adventures.
>We literally kill other people's favorite characters so we can have a sense of smug superiority.
>People hate Superman, symbol of hope and compassion, because he killed Goku twice on Deathbattle and the hack frauds that run the show said he was less relatable than Goku.
WHO WILL BEAT WHO THREADS ARE A MANIFESTATION OF THE OBLIVION MACHINE IN EARTH-33 REALITY SPACE.
WE ARE KILLING OUR HEROES.
WE ARE DOING THEIR JOB FOR THEM.
>>82253385
No instead, he has robots which birth him from a nuclear core wasn't it?
>>82241430
Fuck this. Better question is Doomsday vs Broly.
>>82254211
Arguing about Demonbane made people go into detail about the infinite multiverses from a different perspective.
>>82246511
Wait, why are King Kai, Gregory and Bubbles dead?
>>82254662
They've been dead since Cell killed them.
>>82241430
It's a powerlevel wanking thread whoever wins we all lose
>>82254690
That must have been when it stopped airing here.
what number of kaioken can superman go to
>>82252312
>japan is filth of asia
What japan ever did to you?
>>82252572
Both are shit in their own way. Dont be stupid.
>pedoshit
Pls leave normalfag
>>82250005
Yeah no. Both are losers in same way.
>>82244121
j'onns weakness to fire has always been psychological
have him go into rage mode he won't give a shit
>>82251935
such art art wasted on weebs
>>82253207
Goku's actually a pretty shit fighter anyway, he was never taught technique in early training and by the time he's an adult, fake martial arts and energy beams have taken over the series
fucking weeby children feeling insecure again
>>82256230
>always been
nope
>>82256503
fair enough
but i think it's currently canon
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