Where were you when Captain America got btfo?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iK_DYYS-oM
You can't refute this shit.
>>81979804
I'm going to disagree.
Steve is a soldier, a warrior, through and through. He leads soldiers like no one else, but he understand that he is not a leader of people. That he doesn't have the right to govern others outside of the needs of his team. He absolutely believes that war is all he is good for, but that belief comes as much from his humility as his belief that as a man out of time, he can't connect to the modern world and thus relies on the familiar structure of the military chain of command.
Thor could not wield Mjolnir because his actions proved selfish and vainglorious; he sought war simply to show how great he was an endangered the people he cared about to do it. Steve would not do this, he doesn't fight like a Viking with boast and laughter; at best he's got a dry wit but he rarely even cracks a smile in combat. He understands what he's fighting for and why.
So why can't Cap lift Mjolnir? He doesn't see himself as the kind of person that can wield Mjolnir. It's a weapon built for heroes and kings; remember Odin forged it for Thor in the belief that it would serve as his badge of office when he became King of Asgard, just as Odin's spear Gungnir served as his. Steve Rogers doesn't see himself as a hero or a king. He's a soldier, and keeping himself firmly grounded in that belief is what made him the best choice to receive Eskine's formula.
So basically Steve can't lift Mjolnir because he doesn't believe he's worthy of it, or that he doesn't want to be able to because either it sees him or he sees himself as a hero king, or some other title that makes him feel uncomfortable. Mjolnir would absolutely find him worthy, but maybe it senses he doesn't want to see himself that way so it holds back.
I'm guessing desperate times might force them both to work together in Infinity War though.
BTFO!
>>81979804
So Cap is Solid Snake?
>>81980112
>Focusing on only the mjolnir lifting parts, ignoring the parts of the video that show that cap is fundamentally flawed as a character because he is a warmongering asshole who can only solve problems with violence and who can't live with peace.
>>81980621
So he's American?
>>81980709
Their captain apparently.
>>81980790
Being an American isn't a flaw, it's a privilege.
>>81980709
Well, he's a metaphor for everything that's wrong with America.
>>81979804
He's like, halfway there to understanding cap.
Cap is someone who's always fighting yes, and can't not fight, but that's because he can't stand the notion of being inactive when he could be doing good. As long as there's the slightest bit of injustice or evil in the world, he has the compulsive need to be there to stop it.
The notion of going home when the battle's over is pointless, because the battle will never be over. The battle lasts as long as there is ill intent in the world, which isn't going to end anytime soon.
In Winter Soldier, or the beginning of Avengers, he's upset because there is clearly evil in the world, he can see the effects of it, but he doesn't know who is causing it, who he needs to stop in order to stop the evil.
And yeah, he is a soldier, he does need to be fighting evil. But that's more or less based on the idea that there will always be evil to fight. It doesn't matter what form it takes, he will be there to try and stop it. And yeah, you could make an argument for him trying something other than violence, just fighting evil dudes until they stop doing evil stuff, but I mean, he's a super hero. That's kinda the entire premise upon which super heroes are based.
>>81980936
>metaphor for everything wrong
So why isn't he a fat, diabetic man with a heart condition ready to strike while collecting government assistance?
>>81981263
>Violence is the only way to stop evil because superheroes
Sure fighting is part and parcel to cape comics but it's not the only way to solve problems
>>81979804
Actually, he could lift it. Cap put his hand on it, started to lift, and he immediately noticed the thing was budging. So did Thor.
So he faked out the room. He pretended by flexing and grunting and left it where it was. In his mind, he had more to gain by not letting others know what was up as opposed to showing off.
OR. Or, if that doesn't work for you, this will.
Cap can't lift the hammer to show off. It merely budged. It was a moment in which he didn't require the hammer to do something important.
If Cap really NEEDED to use that hammer to save someone or deal with a real problem, it would be his to use, no questions asked.
The hammer judged him unworthy (just slightly) for use as a parlor trick. The hammer would be good to go if the city needed saving.
Prove me wrong.
>>81979804
Video feels like it's reaching pretty hard. Like the author had a solid starting point, the fact that Cap would legitimately have trouble adapting to a post-war world, then just ran with it in the completely wrong direction.
Cap doesn't seek war. If anything, it's some Peter Parker 'Great Power / Great Responsibility' shit. They made it clear in the first movie that Cap didn't want to just go out and kill Nazis, he wanted to help people. And now that he has the power to do so, there's no way he'd do anything else. That's doesn't make him a warmonger, it makes him a superhero: he spends his time trying to do the right thing because he feels obligated to help people. Realizing that there might not be a point where he gets to go home isn't him basing his identity off war, it's him giving up an identity because he knows there's always going to be something he could be helping with.
And Thor couldn't lift the hammer because of recklessness and arrogance; Cap couldn't lift it because they're saving that shit for Infinity War. To say that it's because of an idea you're imposing is fine, but to act like that suddenly means the scene supports your idea defies causation. It's like, if I threw out the fact that Cap and Peggy never hooked up onscreen, then claimed Cap couldn't lift the hammer because he was a big ol' virgin, does that make it true? And if anything a 'fighting spirit' would be encouraged. I mean the Norse Gods are a culture built on fighting, a love of battle is literally one of the requirements to get into Valhalla.
And while we're at it, Cap's greatest fear isn't that the war has ended, it's that he'll never have that civilian life. That's why everyone faded out in his vision, because he can never be with them. You really think a vision that just let Cap dance with post-war Peggy would constitute a nightmare?
>>81979804
Vision can lift the hammer because he's a machine, retard.
>>81980112
you refuted nothing in the video
>>81979804
Odd, nothing in that video made BvS any more watchable.
If anything, that video made Cap more interesting.
A virtuous person, whose virtue has actually been explored in story, who has a big unconcious flaw.
But the narrator also exagerates points and goes to extremes just to prove himself.
>>81980112
I think this AND the video can be true. DESU This is a very cool analysis of Steve,
>>81984415
this
>>81979804
DC fags bending over backwards to talk shit about mcu because BvS was shit
>>81979804
I mean, Age of Ultron basically spelled this out as clearly as they could without just turning to the audience and saying it.
Fighting is all he knows how to do anymore.
>>81980219
With a bit of Big Boss, looking at the MSF he's running now.
I spent most of my childhood reading DC comics and I've never had the time to catch up on Marvel comics to any significant degree, so excuse the semi-casual question: do the Marvel comics ever do the Big Boss style "he can't stop being a soldier and he needs his war" thing with Cap or is he always written as a pretty standup guy?
>>81979804
Isn't this shit applicable to all superheroes?
>>81981747
When Thanks comes with his alienn army to try and fuck shit up I am sure the Avengers could talk him out of it.
Cap still hasn't had a part in his arc where he moves on from being a fish out of water.
All his friends are dead or brainwashed supersoldier hobo. His waifu is extremely old, and is basically not home in her head.
But there are still HYDRA goons to punch. So that is what keeps him sane.
>>81979804
>why can't he lift Mjolnir.
He's mortal and, whats more, Catholic. Original sin. Cap's not perfect and he'd be the first to tell you.
>he only places value in fighting
Not true. Steve's a painter by original choice. He wanted to fight first because of Nazis, and then super villains. Steve fights out of sense of duty, not blood lust.
>Thor was able to pick up the weapon when he learned not to be a war monger.
When he learned there was more important things than glory in battle and charging in head first. When he learned there's a reason for battle, not the battle itself. He's still very much a war monger, and Mjolnier is still a weapon. The Sherman quote is retarded.
>Captain America's first response is to fight
Wrong. He tries to talk to Loki. He tries to break up the Thor/Iron Man fight. He's restless, again, because of his sense of duty.
>he can't just punch his way through bad guys, because he doesn't know who the bad guys are in winter soldier
More evidence Cap's first instinct isn't to fight, but to reason.
>he's a war monger because he's against Nazis.
Youtuber completely flies off the handle here.
>Winter Soldier means a soldier who fights through winter, not just when the going is easy.
No, Winter Soldier is Bucky's villain name. Being a soldier is hell year round, as the Sherman quote attests.
>Scarlet's power is to make everybody see their worst fear. Cap's is he's back in the 40s and the war's over.
No, that's Dani Moonstar's power, and she's not in the movie. Scarlet Witch's power, as portrayed in AoU evolves fear sometimes, prophecy in others. And Cap's fear isn't the war being over, it's during the sequence when everybody suddenly disappears. They're all gone, dead, and Cap can never see his friends again.
>soldiers who did their job in Iraq and Vietnam were terrible babykillers
well I'll disagree, but we're getting off topic
This guy's a real retard.
>>81987608
cont.
>Captain America is a hypocrite because he talks about standing up to bullies and punches his way through the bad guys, and also dehumanizes them by making them bad guys
Uh, no, they're bad guys because of the bad things they do, not because captain america dehumanized them and made them bad guys, and indeed if they're not bad guys, he has no problem with them and won't fight them, which was the whole point of Winter Soldier.
>>81985033
No, during Vietnam Cap rejected the war, resigned his commission, and traveled around the country as a biker, doing good deeds as they came up.
He's not "talking shit" about MCU. I agree with what he is saying, and I think its one of the things that makes Cap an interesting character.
>>81987713
>traveled around the country as a biker
Well, his bike was in a van, and he drew Captain America comics for Marvel along the way.
>>81987848
But it's completely wrong, and belies a total misunderstanding of the character.
>>81981747
Bit it is how a soldier is trained to deal with it.
If peace on Earth and good will to all men were a reality, Steve would be just fine with chilling and drinking beer and making art. He'll, if he were actually made obsolete in a way that doesn't involve Hydra style genocide, I'm sure he'd retire happily.
He doesn't need to fight, but he does need to fight evil if he's aware of it.
>>81981747
True but the threats the Avengers fight aren't threats they can compromise with or resolve peacefully.
People like Red Skull, THanos, Hydra, Crossbones,etc will never stop
>>81988005
It's 100% spot-on with MCU Cap.
>>81989188
But it isn't.
See: >>81987608 and >>81987684
>>81989188
It really isn't.
Cap doesn't see value to his existance outside of serving and doing good, but that doesn't make him a warmonger that craves fighting.
He's just a character that has experienced loss and has not found a place in the world outside of his role as soldier.
The conclussion the youtuber reaches is far off the mark.
>>81987608
Spot on, except on the part of the dream.
The fear that Wanda's illusion show is twofold.
On the one hand is the dissapearance of the world he is from, which happens when he is left alone in the ballroom.
But the other side of his fear is that peace time came, and he is still seeing injured soldiers and pain all around him.
This part comes from the hints in Winter Soldier that he is experiencing PTSD over his war experiences.
But at the same time this is also evidence that the dude in the video couldn't make a worse intepretation of the character.
Because in peace time Steve still sees suffering, but he also has no reason to fight, and no life to live.
That this is a fear betrays that Steve is not a warmonger deep inside, it betrays that he doesn't want to be, but its all he feels he has left.
this dumb pussy youtube fag doesn't get the concept of cap
cap KNOWS that war will never end.
he KNOWS the darkness that humanity can create.
he saw it first hand in WWII
he knows there will always be bullies and sometimes those shithead bullies will be dictators or terrorists or even gods of mischief
if anything he is less naive than stark trying to put the whole world in a suit of armor, thinking world peace is obtainable.
cap is a borderline fatalist
he knows human beings will never stop fucking each other over and people will die because of that
so what does he do? he could retire, he's certainly earned it
but no, he gives up having an AMAZING life he would have in the 21st century after growing up in an era where his president had fucking polio
he fights for the people who get shit on, he fights for the IDEA of world peace
He knows the dream isn't possible but he doesn't stop believing in it.
>>81989973
>his president had fucking polio
His President? Hell, STEVE probably had polio.
>>81979804
>americans are always about fighting
>from their perspective: a world at peace with no war, no conflict, none of that, is boring
>captain america
I get it.
>>81987902
You are wrong
>>81986314
This is why Marvel movies will eventually start to be as bad as DC movies. They'll eventually have to start using characters that are as powerful as entire armies and can survive things like nuclear bombs to justify having them fight instead of governments doing so. They'll also become limited to fighting each other or aliens not from Earth.
>>81985033
That's pretty much Punisher's entire gimmick. Cap is more like the moral paragon ala Superman, always trying to do the right or "American" thing while sometimes being written as naive to modern society. Sometimes this is subtle, sometimes this is not, like when he fights an insane pillpopping Vietnamese babykiller hired by the Kingpin to kill Daredevil.
