Please refrain from shitposting and company wars.
I'll start:I was really touched by the commonality that ended Bruce and Clark's conflict. I think people going OH WOW LOL WHAT A COINCIDENCE have a very superficial understanding of the characters. Bruce is a product of the tragedy that stole his family from him, the way to his heart is going to be his parents. It was a really powerful moment to see this shift in Bruce's perception of Clark from an alien god to a person--to a brother.Their mothers have the same name. They are both sons. They're not different, they're the same. You and I, our mothers are the same. It doesn't matter what separates us. We're all children of our mothers.We're the same.
I enjoyed that Bruce\Batman was into crossfit.
I liked that I didn't lose any money to it.
>>81874042
He literally mentioned his parents while dragging Supes across the roof by his foot. He's thought of his parent before.
Someone explain to me why the Martha shit made Bats not want to kill Supes.
It had literally nothing to do with why he hated him.
>>81874262
>>81874262
He never thought that Superman had a mom though.
Hell, the fact that Lois was willing to throw himself in his path to protect Supes was the first thing that got him to listen. Before that when Supes was trying to say that he just wanted to talk and wasn't looking to kill Batman, he doesn't care and just keeps backing him into traps until Supes has to fight back.
Really I only liked the visuals.
That scene with Batman walking around the Batcave without his cowl looked straight out of a comic.
>>81874293
>You're not brave, men are brave
>Do you bleed?
Batman could not see Superman as capable of understanding humanity or being a part of humanity himself.
Realizing that he has a mom is what forced him to change that view.
>>81874042
But Super-man saying Bruce's name didn't give him any pause, not even in a tactical standpoint, because...
>>81874398
But he mentions Supes' parents right before he was gonna kill him.
I actually really liked the Lex Luthor in this movie. I'm not much of a comic guy and went in blind, so when he was talking about losing his dad I figured that his dad was the usual bald Lex who maybe died in a past movie or something.
Nope. And it was glorious, up until what he does near the endby making Doomsday. That was retarded. What was the point?
>>81874533
>That was retarded. What was the point?
He really fucking wanted to kill Superman and damn the consequences.
That's pretty standard for Luthor to be honest. This is the same guy in the comics who gave up supreme cosmic power just because it came with the stipulation that he couldn't use it to kill Supes.
>>81874333
It's not that he didn't think Superman had a mom. It's more like he imagined Superman was raised by Zod-like Kryptonian parents who sent their son to conquer Earth.
I did enjoy watching live action Wonder Woman and Superman getting to fight something that showed off their super durability. It's usually either too underwhelming or too dramatic.
>>81874217
>Hating a movie you haven't seen
Pretty gay, Anon.
I like when Lex turned into a literal universal god and gave it up because he couldn't kill Superman
>>81874333
Why didn't Supes start with "My mother is in danger" instead of "We need to talk"?
>>81874819
He could have watched it online instead of paying to see it in a theater.
>>81874333
He literally said "when you were growing up your parents probably told you etc." as he was beating the shit out of him.
>>81874905
I dunno, Batman probably would've thought he was lying.
>>81874905
This
>Bruce, I'm not coming down until you hear me out
>Bruce listen
>Bruce, please
>Bruce
And stay in the air the entire time
>>81874919
He could've been gifted his ticket as well
>>81874042
I think Affleck was great as both Bruce and Batman. The batsuit is imo the best one ever committed to film. Gal Gadot was surprisingly alright as Wonder Woman. That's about it.
>>81874919
this
>>81874990
Why did he believe Lois?
I liked Batman
This movie only made me wish for another Batman trilogy
4 minutes in, and I've already seen something insanely stupid.
>>81875052
Because Lois is a human being?
>>81875140
But then why would he not have beef with Wonder Woman when she clearly isn't human/normal? Especially when he thought she was with Supes.
>>81874042
I enjoyed most of Bruce's scenes because it held most of the world building without throwing it in your face. Wonder Woman was surprisingly not shit and I'm now open to her future role within the DCCU.
I feel like that "moving scene" that ends Bat's and Sup's fight could have been great but instead looked really terrible. Here's why, the dialogue was absolutely terrible and the entire scene was directed like a mediocre high school play.
Lois throwing herself on top of Superman with her hand raised to Batman, "It's his mother!".
>>81874919
>Not going to the cinema and watching it in a cozy home
If only I wasn't such a pussy to pirate, then maybe I would still have my 6$ and my sanity since I had the worst experience watching Batman v Superman. Three people brought their babies and the one in front of me was literally a newborn so that gross baby smell mixed with the popcorn smell and of course the movie was pretty spooky so they all cried. Also, a bunch of teens were talking behind me so I had to tell them to shut up and I have never done that before.Still didn't hate the movie though
>>81875026
this made me laugh a lot
I thought all the Batman stuff was cool along with Wonder Woman, I just didn't like Superman.
>>81875468
OP here. I said no shitposting.
>>81875506
Bro i think superman is boring af
>>81874042
Action was good, Batman finally seemed like the borderline superhuman he should be, Gadot was a much better actress than I thought she'd be.
Wonder Woman all around honestly. I've liked Gal Gadot since Fast 6 though. Han and Giselle were my favorite ones on the team
>post deleted
I see opinions are not allowed
>>81875194
He had no idea what she was, especially that she was as powerful as she turned out to be.
>>81874042
I liked the Batman stuff, Wonder Woman was great the few minutes she was in it, I LOVED the final fight.I also loved how the fight ended. Much better than just Superman and Doomsday punching the shit out of each other.
I really, really, liked the scene where the human trafficked prostitutes called Batman a devil and refused to come out of the cages. The idea that he is so frightening a figure that the people he saves are terrified of him, terrified to the point of illogical behaviour is really cool. Inb4 edgy, because I can take or leave bone breaking edgy talking batman, but he's gotta be scary. That scene was the scariest live action batman we've ever had.
I liked how Batman killed. Kind of refreshing to see a version of Bats without the no kill rule, especially since I got to see it on the big screen
>>81875592
anon somehow made the same post twice
All of Batman's action sequences. Loved the bat mobile chase, the thug beat up straight out of the Arkham games, his introductory sequence with the sex slaves. Alfred was funny too.
>>81874042
I'm going to parrot what most people are/will say, and go with Batfleck being probably the best thing about this movie.
>>81874042
You know, the whole 'Martha' bullshit would have worked if it led to further dialouge, further dialogue and conversation that led to them coming to terms. It's the fact that it literally cuts to them a scene later suddenly okay with each other that cheapens it
>>81875649
DESU I didn't mind how psychotic Batman was in this movie. His brutality/smug attitude was imo the most accurate Batman we've ever had on screen.
>>81874042
What did I like best about the movie? Walking out of the theater
>>81875672
It's not parroting if it's what you personally feel.
I will say this. I am not a fan of this Alfred.
>>81874905
He starts talking then Bruce hits him with a sonic cannon and a dozen machine guns. Clark then pushes Bats into the building to contain the fire.
>>81875704
>He didn't shoot himself in the guts, so he could get the movie stopped and be carted out
that would've sent them a message
>>81875730
Yeah, he was too young and handsome for my tastes
>>81874042
>What were some things you liked about the movie?
Batman was good across the board. Good Bruce Wayne, good Alfred, good suit and all the peripherals looked bang on. Visual effects were sometimes great and a lot of the shots were amazing, even if they were thrown together in an odd order. I like Cavill's superman (just not his script) and the Superman/Batman fight was fun to watch.
Hated pretty much everything else, but it didn't deserve the panning it got considering how leniant the critics are with most big releases.
>>81874042
Batsuit and Batmobile, Batman in the wharehouse fight, Alfred, Perry White. Mercy was cute, PAINFULLY UNDERUSED, but cute. Clark and Lois in the tub. I think that's about it.I think that different but the same shit is BULLSHIT. I mean, I don't have a problem with that concept but the way it played out.
>We're all children of our mothers.
is garbage. We both breathe and fuck and eat breakfast sometimes. OH SHIT did someone pick on you s a kid? ME TOO, We're like BROTHERS.
It's a quick shallow resolution to the conflict they had with each other.
>>81875760
implying anyone would have cared about his autistic "message" and he wouldn't have laid there, alone, bleeding out on the sticky cinema floor at people's feet while they enjoyed the movie.
>>81875730
He reminds me of Earth One Alfred
>>81875785
Isn't Alfred supposed to be only like 15+ years older than Bruce?
>>81875638
You know what made it even cooler? After the rookie cop got spooked and fired blindly after Batman, nearly hitting his partner, his partner then went
>Hey! Try not to shoot at the good guys!
Nice to see that there were still people who were on Batman's side even with his descent into more extreme measures. Supes really needed an equivalent.
>>81874042
The idea that Bruce would stop because he realizes Superman has human parents he cares about humanizes him and doesn't just make him an alien god that could destroy the world is a cool idea. The execution of MARTHA OH YOU SAID MARTHA I HAVE TO SAVE YOUR MOTHER NOW IS DUMB.
>>81875820
Oh please, people get nervous when someone in a camo jacket is in the same building as them. they'd go NUTS if he shot his gun in the theater
>>81875831
If he was Earth-One Alfred, it'd be great. But He's still main earth Alfred, but slower talking and less butlery
>>81875667
>Alfred was funny too.
Has there ever been a bad Alfred?
I'm trying to think back to all the movies/shows I've seen Batman in, and I just can't come up with a poorly done/written Alfred.
The Doomsday fight did a really great job of displaying all of the characters in how they approached the fight
>Batman is trying really hard to NOT DIE but at the same time is trying to make openings for Superman and Wonder Woman to take advantage of
>Wondy is the first to charge in the fight and has a smile on her face at one point going toe-to-toe with it. Just another day at work for her.
>Supes is trying to end the fight as FAST as possible
>>81875816
>Batsuit and Batmobile
>Batmobile
Please. That fucking kitbashed, go-kart looking, soulless whimpy piece of shit was the worst live action batmobile so far, and the second worse batmobile EVER only after this monstrosity.
>>81875886
Yeah I liked the concept, but Affleck's delivery of that really ruined the moment for me.
Eisenberg's Luthor would be great, if the movie he debuted in wasn't this one.
>>81875816
The point of the scene was that it suddenly humanized this monster that he'd hated for two years. He has a mother, her name is Martha. They're going to kill Martha. Bruce not only sees a kindred soul, but a chance at redemption. He can save Martha, for fuck's sake. He can do it over again. He can do it right.
>>81875955
Tankmobile would have been fun but it wouldn't work for the chase. Or anything.
I enjoyed what I knew Snyder would do well.
The Music, the fights, and "Doomsday" aside the designs, these were the only things I had faith in Snyder for, and he did not disappoint.
>>81874990
I think superman was still trying not to to his hand that he has a secret identity, which is why he also kept saying Martha (rather than "my mother").
>>81875920
>Has there ever been a bad Alfred?
Gotham's ranks near the bottom.
I loved Jeremy Irons as Alfred. He didn't have much to do, but he was great. I also really liked the little moment where Bruce gets Alfred his coffee. They had a believably lived-in relationship.
I also liked how cool Carl Drogo's hair looked in the water.
>>81875744
But he doesn't say anything about his mother until he's about to die, he was tip-toeing around it for no reason.
To be perfectly honest I really liked most of the movie. Two of the main sore spots I would have to say were just
>Supes still being a passive non-entity that wandered around and had events happen to him without taking agency or showing any clear motivation before his mom got kidnapped
>Justice League tie-in previews were poorly contextualized within the main plot of the film and detract a lot from the pacing.
>>81875594
But he still thought she was with Superman.
>>81875955
The Nolan one is much, much worse.
>>81876033
That's something interesting that I wish they would've explored more in the movie.
Part of the problem with how the rest of the world sees Superman is that they see him as alien and apart from humanity, when really he HAS a human identity that goes completely unknown by the public. Revealing it COULD help to alleviate those fears, or it could make things worse by preventing him from living as Clark Kent ever again, or even the fact that no one would believe him.
Supes discussing with Lois or Perry on whether or not to reveal his identity and the reasons why would be a really interesting exploration of his character in this universe.
>>81876034
Sacrilege
>>81875886
I can get behind this. The execution was sloppy and felt like the writers were pressed for time. I understood what they were going for, though, so it didn't hamper my enjoyment of the general story idea, even if it failed as a movie
The move was wholly unrealistic. Like, 3 people who had Windows phones
>>81876229
You liked that 3 people had Windows phones?
>>81876314
No, I was not a fan of that level of unrealism.
>>81876108
I'd have put the tumblr at third worst.
>>81875955
Second worse, come the fuck on. Out side of the comics, BTAS and the fBurton Batman movie a most of the batmobiles are on thin ice. Nolans was cool in begins because I thought it would get upgraded as the movies went on. But no, it's just a big black tank throughout the entire series and the most interesting part of it was that it had a cool bike made into it.
>>81876001
Like I said, I understand the concept, it was just poorly done with a shit plot device that had nothing to do with Batmans original conflict. The way it was shown almost any criminal could have gotten a second chance if they just invoked the name Martha at the last minute after Batman kicked there ass.
I liked that this movie pretty much confirmed my daddy fetish with Ben Jackfleck.
No but in all seriousness I loved WW's intro, Superman saving people when they all hated him, and Batman coming off as a legit nightmare for criminals in Gotham.
>>81876338
Read the thread title
>>81876433
I'm watching the movie as we speak, and making observations as I go. I liked the line from TDKR about the empty Wine Cellar
I really liked Alfred. His quips and one liners were perfect and he stole the show every time he was on screen.
>>81876384
>Out side of the comics, BTAS and the fBurton Batman movie a most of the batmobiles are on thin ice
100% agreed, allthough I'd add DKR's BatTANK because, just... it's a fucking BatTANK.
>>81876493
I love Jeremy Irons in damn near everything I see him in and this was no exception. I loved him passively-aggressively and continually reminding Bruce that he's being an idiot about this deal and isn't thinking clearly.
Okay, Lexenberg is losing its luster
I REALLY like Batman in this movie.
Batman was amazing, and his time as Bruce was amazing, too. Batfleck is going to be the single best part of the DCCU, I can tell.
Wonder Woman was cool, too. If her movie is in WW1 I'm down, the world needs more WW1 media, plus Wondie is a pretty good character from what we've seen.
It's baffling that a movie with the exact same cast, taking out everything related to Superman, probably would've been incredible. Superman is the worst part of the Superman movies.
>>81874463
Bruce assumed that his parents trained him to be an uncaring messiah figure/are aliens thus they don't matter.
Honestly am I the only one who thinks the into was one of the best intros to a movie? The cinematography accompanied by the score, the symbolic use of bats bringing Bruce into the light all providing a great level of emotion - all within the first 5 minutes of the movie.
>>81876001
>The point of the scene was that it suddenly humanized this monster that he'd hated for two years
No, fuck you.
The idea that Supes had parents wasn't something unbelievable to Batman, he mentions Superman having parents like a minute before trying to kill him, the parents thing doesn't "humanize" him, Bruce already saw him as some kind of goody-two-shoes (as evidenced by the "every time your guy saves a cat from a tree" line).
Having a from Earth human mother has nothing to do with Batman's problem with Superman. Batman's problem with Superman was that he could potentially do whatever the fuck he wanted and if he decided killing everyone was one of things he wanted to do what could the people of Earth do to stop him?
You could argue that Bruce finding out he has a human mother would mean that he trusts Supes not to go full on "fuck Earth" but he gets A LITERAL TIME TRAVELER to tell him "YO, THAT SUPERGUY? TURNS OUT YOU WERE RIGHT! HE FUCKS ALL OF OUR SHIT UP!" which would make most people think "I will stop at nothing to put an end to him."
But for some reason Bruce trusts the words of some guy he's about to kill and that guy's girlfriend over all time traveler man and all the good Supes has done because ???
>>81876558
I felt that way too until the scene with him kidnapping Lois and explaining his plot to her and Superman. That's where everything for his character comes together I think.
>>81876580
Literally my biggest problem with BvS. Superman is the weakest link and doesn't change at all or grow as a character during the events of the movie. He mopes around a lot and gets a lot of advice then just keeps on doing what he's been doing anyways at the end of it.
>>81876493
>>81876531
>>81876580
Batman and Alfred were the only two legitimately good parts, imo. Would have rathered this just be a standalone Batman movie. It probably would have been good. Great, even.
Hell, Ben Affleck is probably the best Batman we've ever gotten in a live action movie.
>>81876647
I'm at the scene in his party thing. He was just, spergy. Something I don't expect from lex, personally.
>>81876632
Eh, I'm just sick of them revisiting the Wayne's murder in every Batman movie and thought the Bat Ascension was kind of silly.
I like the fact that they built to a potential Hank Henshaw Cyborg Superman
>>81876499
>I'd add DKR's BatTANK because, just... it's a fucking BatTANK.
Falls into the category of comic in my opinion
>>81876672
I was laughing my ass off in discomfort while watching that part.
No joke, I actually enjoyed Eisenberg as Lex.
I only wish that he got a full on Superman film to explore the Problem of Evil theme he had going on.
>>81876558
Please live-blog somewhere else.
>>81876657
I honestly like the idea of Batman being the centerpoint of the new cinematic universe and exploring the different parts of it through him trying to track down these other superheroes and recruit them for the League. He's got the resources for it, he's got the motivating factor of "oh FUCK there's something big and evil headed this way that we need to unite against.", and he understands after his conflict with Superman that these individuals are more powerful as allies than enemies against each other.
>>81876672
>>81876725
Considering everyone else's reaction in-universe to that speech, I think the discomfort is intentional.
He just didn't give a shit about the gala to actually prepare a real speech.
>Wondy's eyeroll at him trying to make Greek mythology references
>>81876726
>I only wish that he got a full on Superman film to explore the Problem of Evil theme he had going on.
If anything he's a more effective foil to Batman.
>Both are super-rich industrial philanthropists
>Both obsessed with the threat that Superman represents
>both are obsessed with having a way to counter Superman to stop from feeling powerless against him
>Both become increasingly cruel in how they address problems and callous in regards to the value of human life
>both have some sort of encounter with portents of Apokalips/Darkseid
Difference is that Batman eventually comes to his senses and realizes he's been going about things the wrong way and seeks a different way that actually does provide for a better good for the world.
Lex just falls deeper into his nihilism until he hits rock bottom.Both of them looked into the abyss. Lex blinked.
Are those... Parademons?
>>81876898
You bet your ass they are.
Those soldiers are Justifiers as well.
>>81876898
The fucking omega in the earth and the pillars of fire didn't tip you off?
>>81876933
I could tell it was Apokolips, but this feed just shows dark grey things with no definable features flying
By the way, we all acknowledge that Batman was ACTUALLY right the entire time, right? If Superman wasn't here, then Zod wouldn't have come to Earth, the world wouldn't have almost died, Lex wouldn't have had access to Zod's ship, Doomsday would never have happened.
And the grand finale, without Superman causing a ruckus, Darksied wouldn't have noticed Planet Earth, leading him to get interested in taking it over, which is clearly what's going to happen.
It is ALL Superman's fault for existing on this planet. And also for not being reasonable and just getting Zod to set Neo-Krypton up on Mars instead.
>World's Greatest Detective can't find a fucking boat
>>81876979
Yeah honestly there are some points where it's worth it to shell out money for a movie ticket for BvS because some of the scenes are pretty fucking gorgeous and there aren't rips high enough quality yet to show them properly.
>>81876632
>the symbolic use of bats bringing Bruce into the light
That was dumb, not even in a comic book "equation for walking through walls" kind of way, it was just dumb.
I loved the part where he's in the corner of the room... it was legit creepy, amazing scenes in this movie
>>81877018
He finds it immediately after he figures out it's a boat though. I don't see why everyone bitches about this.
>>81877022
Man of Steel had the same problem. It was a visually gorgeous movie.
I liked that the media wasn't completely fucking stupid, the moment after the Senate blew up, there were reports stating that Superman didn't cause the explosion.
I just wish Batman had been more of a detective in this film than a stylish Punisher.
>>81877062
I'm just nitpicking the fact that batfags cling to that title. It's a complete non-issue
>>81877081
>I just wish Batman had been more of a detective in this film than a stylish Punisher.
I wish he would've teamed up with Wondy to pull a heist on Luthor rather than her taking the data, then just going "oh I couldn't get anything from it, I left it in your glove compartment kthxbye" and then them swapping emails for the rest of the movie
Jesse Eisenberg's Lex Luthor
"If God is all good, he can't be all powerful, and if God is all powerful, then he can't be all good"
His desire to sully Superman's symbol and how all that he is as a villain is so intrinsically tied to who he is as a person rather than just being another villain whose entire reason for being can be tied to one moment worked very well for me.
Ben Affleck's Bruce Wayne. So obsessed with his mission, with the Batman. One of my favorite moments is when Alfred tells Bruce that he will be able to go to Lex's party and thus does not need the Batsuit, and then you have Bruce staring at the Batsuit, smoldering, and you can tell this guy is legitimately falling apart any second he is not in that suit. He is Batman taken to it's logical end point within a realistic context.
The concept and presentation of what a Superman would mean in a real world context, even if it comes at the cost of a happy go lucky character.
I think it was a solid 7/10 movie with fascinating takes on the characters, but hampered due to some issues in character and plot development along with editing and pacing issues. I am excited for the Director's Cut.
>>81876979
Just go to the theater and see the fucking movie and stop trying to prove that you're too cool for school
It's not Apokolips, it's Earth. He's coming out of the Batcave, and you can see Wayne Manor in the distance behind him. Of all movies to watch a shit bootleg of, a Snyder film is the worst. He deals in imagery better than anyone in the business and you're missing all of it.
>Wilhelm scream
God dammit Snyder
I liked most of it...I just wanted it to end on a happy note
>Batman: Something big is coming, Luthor said he set off a beacon
>Superman: We'll be ready for whatever's coming...together
>Shake hands in front of an American flag or something stupidly corny
Then the title comes up and its not BvS: Dawn of Justice, its B&S: World's Finest.
>>81877115
Ah okay. It's tough to tell the difference between sarcasm and legit shitty nitpicking in these threads.
It's frustrating because even though I enjoyed the movie it's got some very real flaws. But people want to just bitch about stupid things that are easily explained or outright contradict the movie instead.
>>81877149
>Just go to the theater
I live in West Philly, I'll pass on that. And I wasn't saying Apokolips as the planet, I was saying I knew it was an Apokolips invasion
>>81877178
>I liked most of it...I just wanted it to end on a happy note
The ending shot with the dirt on top of Supes grave rising like it did when he flew for the first time was a nice touch. We all know he's not going to stay dead, so it's good for them to nod towards that rather than pretend otherwise.
>>81875026
To be frank, floating in the air high above someone and yelling down at them isn't the best way to convince them you're people too.
I love that it didn't spoon feed me even if that it causes problems (understandably so) for most people. This movie made me realize just how much I love when stories aren't made transparently clear. Also the visuals were amazing and while I do think Synder should go I at least want him to have near full control of cinematography..
>>81876647
The Messiah has to die to rise again ;)
>>81877009
Batman is right within the context of this universe, yes.
Now, following from that, explain to me how Zack Snyder doesn't hate Superman. It sure seems like he does.
Some things I liked, call me a faggot.
Batfleck obviouslyI actually liked the Kevin Costner ghost. It certainly made more sense than "No, Clark. If you stop this tornado, then you'll be no better than it"That part where supes powers back up while taking punches. Batman's oh shit face whenthe crotch level shot of galI looked the funeral up until Bruce started ad libbing some bullshit about justice and leagues
>>81877263
I think the problem isn't that he hates Superman, it's that he ironically falls into the same trap that the rest of the characters in BvS do, of thinking Superman is some big aloof superhuman entity who operates on different rules than the rest of humanity.
Keeps him in a glass display case for so much time and doesn't actually let him be a goddamn character who does things and has likes and dislikes and feelings.
>>81877263
I have serious problems with faulting a character for decisions he had no control over.
>>81875883
That was such a Marvel moment.
>cop almost get killed by shotgun blast
>time for humor hey don't shoot at the good guys XD
People said this movie doesn't have humor. It has humor. Just bad humor.
>>81877307
I liked Pa Kent's talk too, but it felt unnecessary in a movie that's already over-stuffed with dream sequences.
>>81877263
He doesn't hate Superman, he just wants to explore the world's reactions to Superman, like with all the controversy surrounding him. It just means there has to be a reason for Superman to be a figure of controversy, and not a universally loved figure, so he had to fuck up some shit.
Did he do it as good as he could? No. Did he even do it well? Debatable. But did he COMPLETELY fuck it up? I would say no.
>>81876632
The bats thing didn't work for me but the depiction of the Wayne murders was legitimately fantastic and it annoyed me because it, along with the Metropolis intro, geared me up for a much better movie than I got.
That score though, man
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9BL59uiAz8I honestly think this is the best Batman theme thus far, because it blends the sadness and anger that define him really well
>>81876635
When I saw the Martha scene, I thought he decided to end his fight with Clark so he could save an innocent woman's life. I've seen plenty of people complain that Batman just suddenly randomly becomes BFF's with Superman, but I never got the feeling that he did any sort of emotional 180. His priorities just changed-- innocent lives were at risk, and as much as he might want to take down this alien, there are more pressing concerns.
There are two characteristics about Bruce's personality well established in the movie: 1. he really likes beating up bad guys, 2. he really likes saving people. The Martha scene(in my opinion) was just Bruce deciding he'd rather save someone than beat up Superman at that moment. Like, if he leaves, then Supes will be around to beat up later, but if he stays, he can't save the lady.
>>81877307
Yeah, I don't get why people were so hung up on the PA KENT KILLED HORSES thing. I think MoS is a much better movie, but the scene with Pa in BvS is better than he was in MoS.
The point of the scene was that even if you can't save everyone, you can always try, and that's what's important.
>>81877307
>
>That part where supes powers back up while taking punches. Batman's oh shit face when
That was some serious Rick Flair/Honky Tonk Man work there and I loved it.
>the crotch level shot of gal
This! The moment that shot happened and she gave that smile I was instantly diamond
>>81877461
I liked BvS more than MoS actually. I think I liked the variety of characters and the expanded focus of the cinematic universe building better.
>>81877226
I actually like Snyder, and fuck some of the stuff he did in MoS & BvS was amazing, like no other director would have nailed it like he did...but I almost think he's too kino for the DCEU
The Oil Tanker scene, the first flight, the Smallville fight, hell even the military stuff was all very well done in MoS. (I'm from Kansas, you don't get much more American than that)
We just needed to see a happier Superman in BvS before the Senate scene. It makes sense that he's sad after that but because we never got to see Clark really be happy, there isn't that drastic change in character portrayed for him.
A good line in BvS was during the Superman montage ("He's not a god, he's not ea demon, maybe he's just a guy trying to do the right thing.") That's the Superman I want to see more of, not a jesus allegory, but a guy just trying to do the right thing...and I actually didn't mind that he made mistakes in MoS because he is just a guy, he isn't perfect.
I'll go down a brief list:
Superman being revived by the sun. Wanted that scene, got that scene, loved that scene.
Affleck's Batman goes without saying.
Gadot was surprisingly cool. I'll reserve judgement on her Wonder Woman until that movie comes out.
Barry and motherfucking Aquaman. Seeing Arthur take off after destroying the drone was beyond hype inducing.
The knightmare sequence. A very interesting nod to a future that could or had happened if and when the Justice League fail.
The overall tone of the film. It was gloomy, a little dark and put a point on the state of the world after the events that took place in Metropolis.
>>81877263
He doesn't hate him, not even close.
For this movie, he was just more interesting in showing the context of "The World being Introcuded to the Superman" The implications, both religious, social and political, and how those can end up affecting a Superman within that real world context.
But despite all that, Snyder's Superman still chooses good, he still chooses to die for this world. His actions lift Batman from the abyss, and his monument as decreed by his burial is literally "all around us" aka, the world as it is is his monument, never forget that we are all still here because of Superman.
If anything I think Superman absolutely respects and loves the character
>>81877538
So why is this so hard for everyone to see? I missed this. LOTS of people missed this. The idea that Snyder despises Superman is widespread. Critics and fans alike hold it.
You can't deny that he fucked up, to a certain extent. He did fail. Explanations after the fact don't make up for that.
>>81877307
>Maybe Superman is just a dream of a farmer from Kansas
That was great...that's the Pa Kent I wanted to see if MoS
>>81876672
It makes it a little more tolerable to me if I view that whole speech as him just gradually losing his shit but trying desperately to restrain his rage because he knows Superman is right there and his hatred for him cannot be contained long enough to give a coherent speech.
It's still shit, but it makes it a little funnier that way.
>>81877533
>Superman being revived by the sun. Wanted that scene, got that scene, loved that scene.
That got cheers in the audience I saw the premiere with.
>>81877461
Anything to shitpost more.
Though I didn't like that they killed him off to begin with, and killed him that way. He could have said the same on the farm.
>>81877446
He had no proof that Martha even existed until Alfred said something, also why didn't Superman immediately mention an innocent life being in danger? A quick "someone is going to die if you don't help me." would have been fine but instead he tries dragging it on and when Bruce isn't having that shit he decides fighting him is the best option because reasons.
Batman had no reason to trust anything Superman said, but he does becuase "Muh Mom"
>>81877612
Fuck you know what, I forgot that Lex starts off knowing that Superman is Clark Kent considering he knows to go for his mom.
That makes a lot more sense now.
>>81877598
It's meme thinking bullshit propagated by a few and then grasped by people with no ability to watch and understand films with any sort of critical mind.
Basically the equivalent of Autistics unable to articulate an opinion and thus just quote a link to a Red Letter Media review of the Star Wars prequels because they cant formulate why they are bad on their own.
Even a cursory glance with an ounce of critical thinking will yield an understanding of what the film is about.
Man, at the end of this scene I was half expecting Bruce to become Swoleverine
>>81877516
>but I almost think he's too kino for the DCEU
I think Snyder's problem is that he knows how to inject depth but he has it the wrong way round.
There are some genuinely interesting themes raised in BvS, and some of the symbolism actually is well done.
However, the issue with Snyder is that he's a very adolescent director who's a bit embarrassed about that part of him. So rather than the spectacle within his films serving the themes and symbols he wants to develop, he uses those themes and symbols merely as ways to justify his spectacle. I think a good example of this is the car chase in BvS. The theme of men becoming harsher and more cruel in an attempt to wrestle back control in a world where they feel powerless is fascinating, but I watch the car chase scene and Batman blowing up cars with the Batmobile's machine guns and it feels to me like Snyder brushed with these pretty deep themes just to use them as a justification of having Batman blow more shit up.
tl;dr Snyder uses symbolism to justify his spectacle rather than letting the spectacle be a way of portraying the symbolism and themes
>>81877716
Never thought of it before but that's a pretty good explanation.
>>81877461
Because people are fucking stupid and clearly missed the entire point of that scene.
So much shit went over the heads of the average audience member (and critic).
I wish we got MoS2...it feels like this was supposed to be MoS2 and the studio forced them to add Batman & Justice League into it.
Clark should have gone back to Kansas to see Ghost Pa rather than some random mountain
>>81877263
It's not that Snyder hates Superman, why the fuck would he make these movies about him then.
Snyder just doesn't understand Superman as much as he thinks he does.
>>81877688
No, fuck you. I'm tired of this. I'm tired of these fucking 4chan contrarians trying to make excuses for this shitheap of a film The Star Was prequels are BAD. RLM didn't invent that, they merely highlighted it. In the same token, this movie is BAD. This movie is a fucking mess. I'm glad it isn't making a billion dollars, it doesn't deserve to. It's a complete shitshow. It's vomit on screen.
>>81877748
>>81877748
>>81877771
>>81877598
>>81877688
It's the problem of the Matrix sequels.
Unlike a lot of films that fake depth to trick people, BvS and the Matrix sequels genuinely do have depth to their stories. However, through poor choices in direction and film-making people are distracted from those and miss them, and I do think that is the fault of the film-maker rather than the audience.
This far in, no scene touches the dumbness of NO SON, DON'T USE YOUR POWERS TO SAVE ME.
Well, the bats creating a whirlwind to push him up and out of the cave comes close
>>81877768
TFA is also BAD, might be technically superior but worse than the prequels story and lore-wise
>>81877748
>>81877771
Except this Pa is nowhere to be found in MoS or BvS. Snyder's Pa Kent is awful.
>>81877538
>>81877598
>>81877688
>tfw people praised The Force Awakens for being a mediocre re-hash of A New Hope, but pan BvS for being too challenging
>>81877801
The Matrix 3 was horrible. All the depth in the story came from the Ani-Matrix.
>>81877807
Batman's reaction to "Martha" was pretty funny, but unlike some people on here I think it's in-character and the resolution Batman comes to from it makes sense. It's just the deliver of "WHERE DID YOU HEAR THAT NAME" seems odd to me.
>>81877801
Well
You have Marvel movies. No depth, dumb and lowest common denominator shmaltz
You have Nolan movies. Smart movies, but also movies with little faith in audiences so it spoonfeeds all of it's themes and ideas to audiences through tons of exposition
And you have Snyder who stuffs a ton of depth, but has the opposite problem of Nolan, and leaves things completely up to the viewer in order to pick out, and this sometimes this is muddied by issues in the way film is put together.
There's yet to be a perfect "deep" comic movie.
>>81877877
I really loved TFA but even I don't pretend that it tried REALLY hard to ape the structure and major themes of A New Hope.
>>81877920
The things that happen in the two DCEU movies is dumber than anything that happens in the MCU.
>>81874154
Why? That has to be the most retarded thing ever. In what world would a peak human being ever even consider crossfit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9UFo108cQ8
>>81877920
Iron Man 2 was supposed to be Demon in a Bottle...it was supposed to challenge Tony's character and bring up real issues.
Instead we got a PG version of the story stretched throughout Iron Man 2 & 3 which misses the entire point
I feel bad for Jon Favro
>>81874042
I liked when it ended. What a fucking mess.
>>81877920
>You have Nolan movies. Smart movies, but also movies with little faith in audiences so it spoonfeeds all of it's themes and ideas to audiences through tons of exposition
I don't think all of Nolan's films do this; it's the ones that have Goyer writing, and that's because the guy doesn't know how to have characters interact without becoming an exposition machine.
Interstellar is a bit more subtle.Interstellar also made me want to see what a Nolan Superman film would have looked like
>>81877920
IMO Nolan is what we need. You can't just fucking expect moviegoers to pick out everything you throw into a dense, confusing movie. Remember that movies cost money to see. It's not like a book where you can buy it once and reread it over and over. You have to pay to go to the theaters every time, at least until a movie is out on disc or digital release. By then it may be too late. If my first viewing of a movie is negative, why should I go back?
You have to be somewhat overt and direct in your symbolism in movies. You can't just assume people will notice things. I think this is why Nolan has become such a big deal in Hollywood.
>>81877807
You mean the NO SON, YOU'RE A FUCKING ALIEN, AND THE GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO WANT TO DISSECT YOU IF THEY FIND OUT ABOUT YOU scene?
I hate defending this scene because it wasn't even that good and it probably didn't even need to be in the movie... but come on, the reason he won't let Clark use his powers is because he doesn't want his son to be hunted down like a freak.
>>81877920
>And you have Snyder who stuffs a ton of depth
Yeah, if by depth you mean profoundly stupid.
>>81877994
well I didn't say Nolan was bad. TDK is still by far the best cape movie.
I guess, what I meant, is there no perfect in between. It's either dumb, too overt, or not overt enough.
>>81874154
>>81877971
>Into crossfit
Nothing he did was crossfit...crossfit didn't invent any of the exercises he did....hell crossfit didn't invent anything
Don't you ever compare Batman to crossfit again
>>81878012
They key is that the scene has zero business existing. That, and the fact that pretty much half of smallville already knew.
Oh, and the fact that everything you said goes against the very core that is Pa Kent, and has been Pa Kent for his character's entire existence .
Like other people are saying, if there really IS all this symbolism in the movie, it completely went over my head.
I came out of the movie convinced that Snyder genuinely doesn't like Superman. I came out of it convinced that he was basically only including him because he had to, and was eager to get rid of him as soon as he could.
Maybe that's wrong, but that's the genuine impression I got.
>>81877263
I'm fairly sure he does.
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/03/25/batman-v-superman-jimmy-olsen
>>81878068
And then there are some people who just have to bitch about everything.
There's things I enjoy about all three (DCCEU, Marvel movies and Nolan trilogy). Are there flaws in them? Yeah. Do I have particular favorite movies out of all three categories? Oh yes I do.
But I think /co/ just demands too much out of its live-action adaptations sometime. I wish we, and /tv/ would stop putting so much stake in our identities based on the performance of movies.
>>81874042
>Batman and Superman look serious
>Wonder Woman looks like she's going to cry
Jesus christ
>>81878147
This. my only real issues are the MoS Pa Kent scene, and maybe the fact that anyone who looks for a little bit finds out who Superman is
>>81878012
I don't think anyone is arguing it's intent though. Like with the Martha scene, it's how it's handled that annoys people. It's totally fine and even reasonable to portray the Kents as wanting him to be cautious and worrying about him using his powers. But it does come off as Pa Kent sounding like he'd rather Clark just not help anyone ever instead of him just wanting Clark to be a little cautious.
>>81878167
>Why do we have to save humans?
>>81876588
Where would that assumption have come from though? He never bothered to even do slightest bit of research on him even though he's supposedly a detective.
>>81878147
The thing is is that it shouldn't be so hard to give us a big-screen Superman. Superman as a character shouldn't be so hard to adapt. He's really pretty straightforward.
>>81878071
I haven't watched the film yet, I was just saying that crossfit is shit.
>>81877920
I wouldn't call all the Marvel movies no depth.
A lot of them don't carry the thematic weight of much of DC's output or the better X-Men movies, but films like Captain America and Guardians of the Galaxy actually do have a strong emotional core, at least I would say.
I'm not going to defend Thor 2, though, that film really was awful. I regret seeing it more than BvS. It's a more competent film, I guess, in that it achieves what it set out to do, but it doesn't feel like it sets out to achieve anything.
>>81878099
>movie is about how people, for better or for worse, project their own fears and insecurities and expectations onto their heroes and role models and are unable to see them as human beings
>everyone who watches the movie projects their own fears and insecurities onto the movie and gets mad at that projection of their expectation doesn't match what they get
This is not how I want the Hypercrisis to happen.
>>81874042
Thefuneral shot in the Kent housenear the end of the moviereminded me of my great grandfather's funeral, which is the first funeral I can remember going to as a kid.
I got a little misty eyed there.
>>81878206
Eh, there's 75 years of baggage and writers who constantly want a chance to make their own mark on the character rather than just using what's worked for him in the past. I'm not surprised, but it is frustrating to see all these chances missed.
>>81878259
Fuck same here, man. That scene hit way too close to home.
>>81878239
I think Thor 2 is just really annoying with chopping between Asgard and Earth, especially when it goes from super serious to naked professor shit.
>>81878192
>But it does come off as Pa Kent sounding like he'd rather Clark just not help anyone ever instead of him just wanting Clark to be a little cautious.
But it doesn't
It blows my mind how many people watch Man of Steel and come away thinking "derp Pa Kent thinks Clark shoulda just let those kids die!"
I mean, everything is in the movie to understand the motives. Look at Costner's performance, the context of the movie, how he speaks to Clark, the unease in what he says, He's just a father struggling to do the best thing for this child who is capable of so much and just wants him to live as normal a life as possible, to raise him as his son, a human.
>>81878085
I completely agree that it's a different character, and it's an unnecessary scene, but people will ignore the motivations of this version of Jonathan Kent to try to poke holes in the movie's logic.
The "Stop, invincible son!" shite.
Clark's invincibility isn't a factor to the Jonathan's thinking. He's worried about how the world will treat his alien son, not whether or not his son can survive a tornado.
>>81878319
>It blows my mind how many people watch Man of Steel and come away thinking "derp Pa Kent thinks Clark shoulda just let those kids die!"
You're not alone. I can never tell if those people are deliberately shitposting or genuinely don't understand how this moral dilemma works.
I ain't going to defend the tornado scene though, that was some contrived bullshit.
>>81878319
I think you just wrote a short paragraph that still finished on, yeah he should have let those kids die.
If so many people come away with that idea then there's something wrong with the storytelling.
I've just realised how I would have ended the film.
Throughout the film, Superman is treated with religious awe, something that disturbs him because a figure of worship is not something Clark ever wanted to be; he just wanted to be someone that helped. He's also seen as a distant, nigh-inhuman figure; even in the metatextual sense, 'Earth is introduced to THE Superman', reads the subtitle.
That the fight with Doomsday should be what humanizes him feels flimsy, and wrong; it's putting blockbuster spectacle above the arc that Clark is undergoing.
I would have instead have Lex's creation be Bizarro or Parasite; a confused creature.
And I would have had Superman not defeat them through a battle but instead through an offering of understanding, one that would happen in Metropolis in full view of the world. At the end of the film, Earth would be introduced not to The Superman and instead Superman as a human being, who is here to help in whatever way he can.
This would also help with Batman's character arc; though it was interesting to see him inspired by Superman's death, it would also be apt to see him come to the realisation that brutality and violence are not always the only path to make sense of the world. And this renewed understanding of diplomacy and empathy would inspire him to create the Justice League.
>>81878387
>words
what
Also, mainstream audiences not being able to critically think is not proof of a film making flaw.
>>81878387
>yeah he should have let those kids die.
Remember Ma Kent's line about "I never wanted the world to have you"?
Same sentiment. Every parents has to learn how to let go eventually, even though it hurts and they want to be able to protect their kid forever from anything that might hurt them. That's a rival motivation with the knowledge of the good that Clark can do with his powers in the world.
Jonathan is just voicing the fact that he's struggling between those two motivations. If there was NO conflict and Jonathan encouraged Clark to stick his neck out and use his powers whenever possible however he felt like, then we'd be bitching for an entirely different reason.
>>81874533
He knew superman would sacrifice himself to save everyone
Okay, I can probably assume that Clark Kent knows the parents of Bruce Wayne were Thomas and Martha Wayne. But I can't get it past my head that he would call his own mother martha, somehow knowing it would generate a reaction aside from "whatever, I'm still killing you"
>>81878319
>>81878376
>>81878379
I think the key to this is that, classically, Pa Kent looked at his son's enormous power and felt a kind of duty. He knew Clark was going to be someone of immense strength and importance, and he knew that no matter what happened, Clark was going to be a powerful force in the world. So he imparted to him the urge, above all else, to help people. He knew he'd have great power, and he knew he'd have no choice but to show it, so he urged him to be magnanimous, to be a great man, to use his powers for good above all else.
Snyder's Pa Kent seems to refuse the inevitability of Clark being a public figure. Sure, he talks about how he'll "change the world," but deep down he doesn't live up to it, because he holds out hope that Clark might still be able to hide himself. He says that it's totally up to Clark what he does with his powers, as though Clark has a choice whether to be exceptional or not.
I don't know. To me it seems like classic Pa Kent is genuinely a good person, and he's one of the major reasons Clark, in turn, is a good person. I'm not so sure Snyder's Pa Kent is a good person. I'm not sure what he'd do if he were ever called to protect the weak. He'd probably do it, but that doubt I have just sours me on the whole interpretation.
You know, I don't get why people have such a hateboner for the Kent family in these movies.
They're right. Superman DOESN'T have to be the savior people want, and he DOESN'T owe the world shit. Clark had every right to be whatever person he wanted to be, but if Ma Kent says "You don't have to be a savior to people," people go apeshit with shit like "MA KENT WANTS EVIL SUPERMAN!"
>>81878544
>I'm not sure what he'd do if he were ever called to protect the weak.
He does; he saves the dog from the Tornado.
Snyder's Pa Kent is a good man but also a more cynical onewhich I'm not sure I likewho values his son above all else in the world.
See 'You ARE my son' in response to 'Can't I just keep pretending I'm your son?'. He sees Clark as his son first and as the force for good he could be in the world second.
>>81878544
Jonathan I think is still a guy who would do the right thing, but he knows that doing the right thing is tough and hurts sometimes. He's a guy who's been forced to make hard choices in his own life.
I enjoyed that it had a pretty consistent tone. People complaining about it not being light hearted and rompy are stupid, you shouldn't review something based on what you want it to be. I reckon it shat all over Batman 3: Bane's Revenge, Age of Quips and Man of Murder. I also really liked Eisenberg's take on Luthor.
All that said, it was a bit crowded and long running, I think Doomsday could have been saved for another day.
>>81878544
Within a real world context, the ideal jonathan kent comic characterization is a psychosis waiting to happen IMO. It's not a character that has valid worth if you are trying to tell a grounded story.
It's idealistic, and unrealistic I feel
>>81878635
But I'm fine with the Kent parents in every other instance aside from the tornado scene. that's my only gripe.
>>81878635
Because those who have great power have an obligation to use it for the betterment of the world.
Defend the weak. Protect the helpless. Uphold justice. The powerful should serve the powerless. It's what we're all called to. It's a matter of duty, of noblesse oblige. We're called not to be selfish when we have something the world might need.
>>81874042
Liked the costumes
Liked the Batman fight scene towards the end
Uhh....I honestly can't think of anything else
>>81878635
What was the point of the "Be their savior" part of Ma's speech? The whole thing could have been just "you don't owe this world a damn thing" but she throws in all that shit at the beginning for no reason.
You know what guys, this has been a pretty chill thread for the most part, thanks for actually having some good discussion on the movie.
>>81878701
But that's an outcome that should come from within oneself.
Of course, others can influence you in that regards, but it's utterly unhealthy to be in the position where others are pushing you to do something while completely disregarding your own wishes.
I mean, in some stories, Ma Kent straight up makes the Superman suit in hopes that he will someday wear it. It's crazy.
>>81874042
- The costumes
- Batffleck & Alfred
- Batmobile
- Gal Gadot as WW
- Warehouse assault
- Batman and Supes fight
- Final Fightbefore the excalibur part
- Supessexual scene w/ Lois
- Visual Style
- Music
- Some quotes from Lex
- Mercy
- That suspense moment in the Court
- First dream secuence
In that order
>>81874293
It plays into Batman's arc in the film. Read this explanation. Movie pretty directly answers much of the questions that people have raised. Just need to pay attention.
>>81878801
Clark could always have said no. He could always have walked away.
Instead, he embraced the ideals of his father and took on the burden waiting for him.
It's not so terrible, always, to be what our parents want us to be. It's not always so wrong to embrace the expectations laid on us.
Isn't that what Superman is all about? Isn't he about bringing dreams to life?
>Silver Hulk
Why did nobody tell me this was a crossover movie?
>>81874293
>>81878817
I'm still trying to figure out why Superman called his own mother by her name.
>Spend years defending Gal Gadot's casting
>Hurr hungry skeleton
>Has never been in a big film before
>Should've cast a MMA fighter like Ronda Rousey
>Ended up being one of the best parts about the movie
>>81878817
>if he kills Supes Martha will die
Except he has no reason to believe Superman, he didn't try listening when Superman tried to peacefully talk it out so why would he listen when he's about to die? It IS an ass pull because they've made this Batman hellbent on taking out Superman and give the flimsiest excuse possible for him not following through with it.
If you don't trust the man when he could easily kill you, why would you trust him when the roles are reversed?
>>81878890
He was literally about to die and all he could think about was his mother. It's really not a stretch that he would yell his mother's name in his perceived last moments, with all his power--unable to save her.
>>81878962
I'm not entirely sure being the second shiniest thing in a pile of turd is exactly praiseworthy.
>>81878995
Yeah, but wouldn't it make more sense for him to say "Mom"? Kryptonian or not, he still has a human state of mind
>>81879012
That's irrelevant. She played her part well, it's not her job to come up with the plot of the movie. If she was as bad as Talia in TDKR then maybe you'd have a point.
>>81874042
>Batman, Alfred…all the Bat related stuff really
>Wonder Woman
>Flash cameo (time travel one especially)
>Lex's motivations and manipulation (Im just happy it wasn't a fucking real-estate scheme like every other movie lex)
>JL cameos (yeah it can be argued they were mishandled but boy did I have a smile on my face during the montage)
>Religious imagery and homages to Arthurian legend
>The structure of the film being that of a Shakespearian revenge tragedy
>The Beautiful Lie sequence at the beginning
>Mankind is introduced to the Superman
>If you seek his monument, look around you
>Batman and Superman's character arcs and explorations
>The stunning cinematography unmatched compared to other comic book films
>The score
>The action sequences
>Much of the dialogue (especially some of Lex's and Bruce's)
>The little character interactions and moments. Personal favourite the scene with Alfred in Wayne Manor, discussing how the Wayne's have always been hunters
>Not shying away from the comic books
Plus a lot more. Not a perfect film, but there is too much greatness in this to justify the critical reception it has received.
>>81879019
Keep in mind, he's still protecting his identity. He was trying to get out "Martha Kent", and it isn't until Lois shows up that she explains that its his mother.
People tend to think that Supes is begging for his own life for the sake of allowing him to save his mom. No, what's happening is that Supes is trying to get Batman to save Martha even IF Supes himself dies there.
>>81879093
See, that makes sense. Thank you anon. I guess I was getting ahead of myself, since seemingly everyone with a college degree knows who superman's identity is
>>81879134
Lex knows, Lois and Perry know because they were involved with him coming out publically as Superman in MoS, but that's it. (and I think MoS's ending implies that they purposely buried a lot of info to prevent other people from following their own tracks)
I THINK THERE WAS A QUESTION MARK IN THE NUCLEAR MISSILE FIRE
THE RIDDLER IS BEHIND LEX BEHIND DOOMSDAY
>>81878972
I think it makes sense if you look at it this way.
Batman dehumanized Superman in his mind. That much is clear, what with stuff like "Do you bleed" and "You aren't brave, men are brave." He saw him as an enemy, not a person, and so he didn't care what the enemy said at the beginning of the fight.
When Superman said "Martha," Batman was floored with two things. One, his flashbacks to his parents getting killed. Which throws his state of mind out of "murderboner" and into "sadness." Then, out of that, he's projecting himself onto Superman, feeling the same sorrow he felt when his parents died, but seeing it in another person, Superman. So now, we've went from a Batman about to kill Superman, to a Batman who sees Superman as a man about to lose his parents -- a hellish feeling that he personally understands.
It makes sense he would listen to that kind of person more than he would the enemy.
>>81878890
>>81879019
In that moment he is trying to tell Batman to save her. Even if you kill me, you have to save her. He is begging him.
>>81878972
But the Martha thing throws him off. Its enough for him to momentarily stop. The epiphany moment - the moment he recalls his own mothers death, is enough time for Lois to tell him Martha is Superman's mother. Its not like Superman says Martha and he throws down the spear and trusts him. He is still threatening Superman but with pause - why would Superman say Martha? What is he trying to say? Its enough to give Bruce brief pause and, like I said, realize what he has become before Lois' reveal when Bats finally stops.
>>81879168
I liked when Batman broke the sink and slammed it against Superman's head, I fucking exploded in laughter.
>>81879241
There were a lot of good bits in the fight. The part where the Kryptonite starts wearing off and Batman's punches start losing their effect got probably the biggest laugh out of the audience I saw it with.
>>81879193
>He is still threatening Superman but with pause - why would Superman say Martha? What is he trying to say?
Honestly, Affleck's delivery in that scene makes him seem insulted until Lois comes in, to me.
>>81879241
It was very pro-wrestling. I was half hoping he made a Kryptonite Sledgehammer instead of a spear
Everyone should read this. Its long and from tumblr but give it a shot.
http://pulpklatura.tumblr.com/post/141843209469/batman-v-superman-the-modern-revenge-tragedy
BvS follows the template of a Shakespearian revenge tragedy, notably Hamlet - with a good dose of Le Morte d'Arthur
>>81878817
99% of this post invents context from whole cloth and substitutes the poster's knowledge of the characters from other mediums for things the movie did not or failed to properly convey.
That it's so easy to fabricate an arc or motive that would fit (some of) the actions of the characters is really just more proof of how terrible the movie is for not doing so.
>Every time Wonder Woman is on screen, it is in slow motion
Is this what Dwayne Johnson's The Baywatch Starring Dwayne Johnson will be like?
>>81879319
>That it's so easy to fabricate an arc or motive that would fit (some of) the actions of the characters
>it's easy to infer motivations that consistently match with the actions characters take in the movie
>THEREFORE IT'S SHIT
Holy fuck dude, do you understand how basic comprehension of a story works?
>>81879236
>>81879168
But he humors the idea of Supes having parents right before he puts him in prime stabbing position, he clearly didn't give a fuck about that.
>>81879193
>Lois to tell him Martha is Superman's mother.
But why does he believe her? He has no reason to! Here you have a man about to me murdered by you and what you assume is his girlfriend, why would you not think they're just spouting shit to throw you off? The guy knows your identity so why would him knowing your mother's name fuck with you? And even if he didn't Martha isn't really an uncommon name, do you refuse to associate with anyone named Martha? What if you're stopping some criminal and her name is Martha? What do you do? Freak out while she runs away?
>>81879319
seemed pretty properly conveyed to me. Answers to questions like "Why is Batman killing?" "Why did Batman react that way to Martha?" Are spoon fed to you throughout the film. Batman straying from his heroic path and getting back on that path is literally his arc in the film and plays off Superman's arc. From the opening sequence to the end, this arc is conveyed. That anon isn't fabricating an arc when IT IS THE ARC. Everything that happens between Batman and Superman speaks to this.
>>81879319
lmao, the lengths people will go to
Everything in that post is 100% within the context of the film
>>81879315
Yes, Snyder us very good at trying to get real symbolism and themes in his movies.
Unfortunately he's a hack who somehow is incapable of focusing on or properly conveying these things despite having all the subtlety of a sledgehammer to the balls
>>81879456
"Martha" rehumanizes Batman by humanizing Superman. He won't kill Superman even if he still perceives him as a threat. Batman strayed from his heroic path because he thought nothing he did had made a difference, but now he sees he was wrong in his ways. Superman's subsequent explanation of Lex being behind everything then allows Bruce to trust him.
>>81879468
Again, Snyder does know what the symbolism he's bringing up implies.
However, as I said here, >>81877716 , he's just using it to justify his adolescent need for over-the-top, violent spectacle, rather than using that spectacle to contextualise it.
Another example would be the Batman V Superman fight itself. It should feel like the summation of the symbolic and thematic conflict between the two characters and ideologies, but it instead feels like everything that came before was just him saying 'look it's OK for me to have these two characters fighting because I was DEEP before'. Thus, instead of the tension slowly ratcheting up, you get a long slog before a fight that feels divorced of the context of the rest of the film.
>>81879467
>it's all in the film
>>81879466
>his heroic path
>>81879467
>this is DKR batman after all
Gonna stop you right there because you're already full of shit.
You can't say Batman is clearly a paranoid wreck abandoning his former ideals when the movie doesn't establish that his former methods are different from his current ones. For all the movie tells us Batman couldve been branding criminals his whole career
You are bringing in outside context.
>>81879468
>There are no themes and no subtext in this movie, you're making it up from whole cloth and projecting. Zack the Hack
>All the themes and subtext are shoved down your throat, Zack the Hack.
It's...beautiful
>>81874042
>Please refrain from shitposting and company wars.
I didn't like the movie, there's nothing shitposty about that. Sorry if you're desperate for a circlejerk. Maybe you should watch better movies.
>>81879602
>For all the movie tells us Batman couldve been branding criminals his whole career
Not to defend the film but Alfred does mention early on that branding is a new development for Bruce that he doesn't approve of.
>>81879602
>when the movie doesn't establish that his former methods are different from his current ones
You mean the fact that they talk MULTIPLE TIMES IN THE MOVIE about how Batman's methods have gotten crueler and he's become more callous over time? Did you just tune out every single goddamn time Alfred talked?
