Superman is a shit hero and is boring, because he is invincible and can never lose. Discuss.
>>81585194
Yeah, pretty much
>>81585194
>>81585194
Go home Pat
>>81585194
Sure, if you ignore all the times he gets his ass kicked and loses.
>>81585194
>Superman is a shit hero
objectively wrong
>>81585276
>>81585194
You're a nigger who doesn't understand the character. Read all-star Superman by Grant Morrison
>>81585194
>itsabigone.webm
>>81585194
I bet you feel so proud of yourself for coming up with that on your own. What a wholly original and well-developed opinion.
>>81585294
explain why ass dick
>>81585317
A-S S is just that. ASS. Boring overrated garbage
>>81585194
He obviously is an excellent hero; you mean he's a shit character, which is true. Superman's intended use is as a setting, not as a character.
>>81585194
>dat "cool bait, bro" face
It's OK /co/, OP know what he's doing.
>>81585194
Go molest a kid, Bruce
>>81585194
>the only thing that matters is who wins in a fistfight
>>81585348
I'm fostering discussion. I want to see why people genuinely think this, and genuinely disagree.
>>81585311
I'm glad someone said it. Pat is insulted by the mere existence of someone who might be better than him, it's no fucking wonder he hates Superman. His insecurity is unparalleled.
>>81585194
>I have never read a comic the post
>now with extra bait!
>>81585194
>can never lose
>>81585395
>What if Superman was an anime?
I'm not seeing any reasons for the OP being wrong in this thread
>>81585194
>he can never lose
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzSyyi_Pqyw&nohtml5=False
>>81585395
What's the deal with this guy?
I know he trained like a gazillion years for his punch to be a 1HKO, but that's about it right?, it's not like he's invulnerable or something, or has super powers and shit, right?
Shit opinions general
>>81585868
metacommentary
What makes a superhero interesting isn't if they can "lose".
>Superman is shit because his fans hates the idea of him losing
FTFY
>>81585868
hes "peak human" as high as he needs to be
>>81585868
He's a joke character. He really didn't train all that hard. His power is to hit you once and you're done. That's it.
>>81585918
What MoS and BvS taught me is that supefags don't care about Superman as a character as so much as they care about the public image of Superman.
>>81585868
He basically has all the stats at "Yes". The entire idea of the manga is that he's a hyperpowerful, indestructible, unbeatable hero... and he fucking hates it because all he wants is to actually feel like a hero and that's really hard when all the monsters die if you so much as cough on them.
>>81585194
He needs to be reinvented but not in a shitty angst filled way. They need to emphasize him as a writer and investigative reporter with a voice and solid characterization. He needs to have more dialogue than his supporting characters on film.
I have a friend that says shit like OP. Also likes to add that Batman is a much better character because he is more relate-able. His DC knowledge consists of the Nolan films and the DCAU.
>>81585377
For some reason by "three of us" I always assumed he meant Batman hiding somewhere.
>>81585868
Saitama is literally invincible and faster and stronger than any entity in existence currently discovered.
It's a comedy though, and it plays on his utter destructive power for laughs because he can never ever enjoy a fight.
Most of the good action in the series comes from the other characters, all of which are fucking cool as shitfucking atomic samurai my diiiiiiick
>>81585469
Nothing much will change, except the fact that he will name his attack 90% of the time
>>81585868
he did a fairly mid-intensity fitness workout of 100 pushups, 100 sit-ups, 100 crunches, and a 10K run a day. After just a couple years all his hair fell out, his body became impervious to harm, and he gained the power to, in the creators own words, 'punch with as much force as half that in the big bang' as his upper limit per punch. He can jump from the Moon to the Earth fast enough that the trip only takes a few seconds, survive in a vacuum just by holding his breath, move faster than the speed of sound with great precision (that is, dodging and moving around, not just running in a straight line) and a few other completely absurd things that make zero sense even in-universe
>>81585967
>What MoS and BvS taught me is that supefags don't care about Superman as a character
then youre retarded because the biggest concern with these movies is that it isn't fucking Superman.
He is lit like jesus, he is always frowning or sad, never smiles, doesnt seem to give a single shit about anyone dying around him and was raised by people who told him not to ever be superman and to never save people
>>81585340
>I have the attention span of a newborn babby
>>81586137
>people who told him to never be Superman and to never save people
But that didn't actually happen.
>>81585868
Saitama is a rather literal take on the 'Superman is "just a regular guy with extraordinary power"' line.
And it's a really rather effective take. On the surface he's this dope, who just stands there looking like he's lost his keys. But deep down, he's the best there ever was, in terms of both physical strength, and in strength of character.
>>81586137
>WAH HE NEVER SMILES
HE'S SAVED THE WORLD THREE TIMES OVER AND IS ALWAYS SAVING PEOPLE BUT BECAUSE HE ISN'T GRINNING LIKE A STUPID FAGGOT THAT MEAN HE ISN'T SUPERMAN!
See, Supefags only care about Superman in terms of how others see him.
>>81586402
youre a fucking retard
henry cavill's superman doesn't ACT like superman. it's got nothing to do with perception you dullard. he shares very little in common with the character
>>81585194
>and can never lose
what is the protagonist alex
>>81586137
>Superman isn't Superman
Supefags are also incredibly insecure, unable to accept any Superman that doesn't fit their narrow criteria. Big reason why Superman has lost any relevance.
>>81585194
Being invincible and never lose doesn't make a hero boring. What makes them boring is them being the most perfect being in existence and their moral that is being defined as the best americans that anyone can be is the thing that makes Superman boring.
>>81585868
the tl;dr is he trained so hard he broke his limiters, and now lives a sad life where what he wanted to be is something he never can be because every fight is empty of any stimulationHe's feeling a little better though, because he realizes he's gotta act the part he wanted to be because almost no one else is being an actual hero
>>81586072
mah African
>>81586429
It has everything to do with perception.
>>81585194
I'll take things shit writers say for 200 Alex
>>81586559
This.
>>81585194
>Superman is a shit hero
There has never been a more wrong statement ever.
Let me guess, it's either Batman or Deadpool that are your favorite superhero?
>>81586050
He's disguised as the cop
People who defend Superman have gone into a whole new level of strawman and ostrich tacitcs.
Like Superman being unbeatable or overcoming all his struggles by grinding his teeh and punching harder is not a problem.
Like the fact that he is a cardboard, one-note character is not a problem. His whole personality is summed up into him being good.
>>81585194
Superheroes don't really lose by getting their ass kicked (they always win the revenge match anyway), they lose when they lose someone or something that's precious to them, when they need to compromise their ideal or straight up lose the will to fight.
In a meta way Superman is just like other heroes: you know he's not actually going to lose in the long run because the status quo needs to remain and more specifically they need to stay fucking alive to sell comics. They aren't allowed to lose by the laws of the market.
That's why a lot of the best stories are outside of main continuity.
>>81586402
>in terms of how others see him.
Anon, smiling means you're happy, not that you want others to see you smile.
The problem anon is talking about is that Superman doesn't seem happy to be Superman.
>>81585317
>read ASS as your first Superman story
You fucked up, son. It's a story for fans.
>>81586979
Superman doesn't save people for shits and giggles, it would be horrible if he did.
>>81586514
Not even a Superfag, I've only read a couple of his solo comics, but it makes sense. He's basically one of the last superhero played straight, what the fuck is the point to change him to make him one of the 9000 alternate/ripoff versions of him that have existed over the years?
He's actually more unique as good ol' Kansas boy scout Superman than as whatever stupid metaphor people want to put on him.
>>81587026
>Superman doesn't save people for shits and giggles, it would be horrible if he did.
Not for shits and giggles, you can be happy without going full "ITS A PRANK BRO". It's a duty but it's a duty he does happily, he does the right thing because he likes doing the right thing, not because great power great responsibility, that's not really him.
>>81585967
>>81586137
>superfags
Son, there isn't a collective Superman fanbase. Each Superman fan likes a different iteration of the hero and has a favorite story / way of portraying the myth. Some like when Superman is an alien that feels out of place, some prefer when his secret identity is Superman and his normal self is Clark Kent, some prefer the opposite, some prefer when he's seen as a messiah-like figure, some don't etc.
>>81587136
Not talking about the entire Superman fanbase, I'm talking about Supefags. People who drank a little too much from the kool-aid morrison and Waid were handing out and now believe that only good Superman is a flawless Superman.
>>81587128
And it's not him in the film either. The whole scene with Martha should've keyed you in on the fact.
>>81585194
If you only want a character that fights and has no personality, go read a battle manga like dragon ball or naruto.
Superman's character isn't about "can he win the fight" because the answer is yes, he can. It lets his character and development focus on things other than "I'm gonna get stronger and fight for my friends!" like you're clearly used to.
>>81585194
This makes him different than batman, how?
>>81587232
This is what bothers me the most. People give a free pass to literally every other superhero out there, but Superman gets people complaining.
>>81587039
I think supefags put him in a bubble. I think Superman want to grow and evolve but his fans won't let him.
>>81587210
The point is not that he's Spider-Man in BvS, it's that he's not what some people want of Superman: someone who's happy of being the greatest hero ever and a symbol of hope.
>>81587278
Grow and evolve to what? What would an 'evolved' Superman look like? We already had plenty of stories with old Superman, he's always a retired hero or a messiah figure that grows out of his human persona.
>>81587361
That's just sounds so selfish though, I know you're trying to say that being good is it's own reward but that you phrased that makes it sounds like Superman loves being on a pedestal.
>>81586594
So it's just an allegory about masturbating with a death grip?
>>81587278
>I think Superman want to grow and evolve
I think you want him to "evolve", whatever that means. Are you aware that Superman has changed quite a lot over the years?
I mean I understand a Superman-like character is a good story device and people want to use that device without playing the character's most recognizable traits (basically his personality as a happy-go-lucky do-gooder), but again, that's what expys and Elseworlds are for, and they're full of not!Superman stories.
Asshole Superman is Best Superman
>>81587039
First of all I think there are way more Straight Superheroes then you give credit for, secondly I think Superhero is a nebulous charactertype that can't be easily defined.
>>81586050
Imagining Bats hiding in a tree and nodding grimly as Supes says that now. Very amusing.
>>81587472
Characters shouldn't just stagnant.
>>81587451
Is this Tony Moore?
>>81587524
I don't know.
>>81587379
>the super science called magic
BRAVO FEIGE
>>81587522
You shouldn't just words.
But sure, they can stay "stagnant", whatever you mean by that, you just need episodic storytelling.
Point was Superman hasn't stayed stagnant, he's changed countless times to please whiners like you who probably don't read his comics anyway.
>>81587502
Your second point defeats your first point.
get an open mind first then literally read any valid reason why your wrong
>>81585311
>>81585367
>>81585469
>What if Superman was an anime?
Really, reading your comments, he seems to be what you want of Superman, minus the gayness
>>81585194
X is a shit hero because X is the hero of story and can never lose. Discuss.
That's what this argument boils down to. Any idiot could write a character stronger than Superman and have it kill him. He's fictional. Every single hero always wins because they're the protagonist and the company needs to write a book about them next month
>>81585194
Batman is a shit hero and boring, because he's plot-invincible and can never lose. Discuss.
>>81587609
No I'm saying that I personally think that a superhero covers a lot of different characters but that there's still a lot heroic capes.
>>81589319
Batma loses regularly in his solo works. It's only in the big events and team books that he becomes literally perfect in every way so as to keep up with all those gods and monsters
>>81589787
Superman loses regularly in his solo works. And in the big events and team books (especially involving Batman) he becomes literally a failure in every way so as to make Batman look better.
>>81589787
>Batma loses regularly in his solo works
So does Superman. Its the same fucking argument. They're both invincible when the plot of their stories call for it, its an innate aspect of superheroes.
>>81585194
Why is this meme even a thing?
>>81585194
So him dying in BvS automatically makes him a good character?
>>81590088
It's pretty easy to put a stop to it IRL.
>Superman's lame because he's invincible and never loses!
>Neither does any superhero you could name. Most stories end with the protagonist winning.
>>81590609
Except for those
>Y-yeah, b-but...
Guys who always try to counter that point with some inane bullshit about how his weakness is a rock, or how he has too many powers, or how he's too nice.
People just want reasons to hate him, and they'll create excuses. God forbid they just say "I don't like him." instead of unilaterally calling him a shit character despite knowing absolutely fuck all about him or capes in general.
Superman is objectively the best comic and fictional character of all time. Everyone who says otherwise has a shitty opinion and deserves to be killed in a very unpleasant way.
Have a nice day, fag san
>>81586004
What are some volumes/universes you would recommend that focus more heavily on "Clark Kent, the writer"?
>>81586789
Punisher
>>81590784
People like what they want. You don't have to be a Batman scholar to like Batman but apparently you need to be a Superman scholar to like Superman
>>81585194
>Bait, the thread
Why is this allowed
>>81591076
Up Up And Away
>>81585311
So Pat is pretty much Lex Luthor?
>>81585276
>>81585311
Who the fuck is Pat?
>>81591109
better question: why do faggots keep falling for it
>>81591105
>Implying that's even remotely what I said
People can like what they want, but they should honest if they don't like something, instead of continually trying to invent reasons not to like it. If someone asks you why you don't like it, a "meh, he's not for me" should suffice, rather than coming up with the most idiotic complaints they can think of.
>Why does the good guy win? That's boring
Like what you want, but don't tell me what I like is shit just because you don't like it, unless you have some good reasons to make that claim, instead of broad, sweeping generalizations, and genre-based complaints.
>>81585194
Watch Man of Steel and Batman v Superman. Snyder made Superman a far deeper and interesting hero than any other.
>>81585194
In tonights thread:
>shit you'll hear in a geek merch shop
>>81585194
>Obvious bait thread gets over 100+ posts.
What a fucking surprise. I wish /co/ was actually a bright board.
>>81589838
>in the big events and team books especially involving Batman) he becomes literally a failure in every way so as to make Batman
Not really he is usually the one who saves the days at the last minute.
>>81591105
Excuse me, are you really saying that Superman is only popular among academics?
>>81591237
From Two Best Friends play. A group of Let's Players who have shitty opinions on basically everything. They barely read comics yet hate Green Lantern and Cyclops, dislike the prequels because Plinkett told them too and don't know dick about video games outside Street Fighter and Metal Gear.
>>81591105
So, here's two statements.
"I don't like Superman, the stories about him aren't for me but I do not use my dislike as an indicator of an objective lack of quality with regards to the character."
and
"Superman sucks he's so lame and never loses and he's a shit boring character."
The first is fine. The second is not. The second is this thread's OP.
>>81594293
>>81591480
Normies never read a Batman comic but they fucking love Batman. According to comic sales, people who actually read comics fucking love Batman, way more than Supes.
>>81591210
Lex is a tall, buff, succesful billionaire supergenius who is generally liked by the public and has been a president, a god and a member of the justice League. So, nope.
>>81585311
remember that time that pat asked everyone if they hated basically everyone in high school? (he listed overacheivers(basically anyone that wasn't retarded like pat is an over acheiver to him)dumb jocks, hot popular girls, and showoffs, people with skills like art and music, and anyone popular) The entire zaibatsu sandbagged him so hard for that
his insecurity is extremely pathetic
also he also hates "moralfags"
thats why he thinks the punisher is an amazing character, and before the movie he would constantly complain that batman and superman never killed their arch enemies and has actually said if you didn't brutally kill a person, anyone that the villain kills is on you
it also shows his weird marveldroneness when he complains that superman and batman kill mass murderers
>>81586072
This is actually a pretty good commentary on the JLA. Or it's just hypercrisis making ONE write his webcomic. He just _thinks_ it's a funny little comic about superheroes that a lot of people enjoy for whatever reason when Grant Morrison is actually skullfucking him every night.
>>81593049
yeah that plinkett shit is gross. they basically base their entire opinion of any movie on the plinkett reviews and act like everyone watches them.
also reminder that matt thinks hes an expert on film and has stated multiple times that he knows more about what a film should be than a bunch of directors. most recent example is the most recent punisher ep
>>81585194
This is all it takes to troll /co/.
>>81586004
That would bomb so hard it would probably resurrect Siegel and Shuster who would have to rewrite it in to something semi entertaining.
>>81585194
go home Snyder
>>81585276
But pats right, supes is dull
>>81585194
The fun of superman isn't "Will he win?", its "HOW will he win in THIS situation?"
At least to me.
>>81586594
>the tl;dr is he trained so hard he broke his limiters,
>limiters
Only Japan.
Only Japan.
>>81586822
>whole personality is summed up into him being good.
And Batman's is being an asshole. Spidey's is being a bitch. Tony's a meme, Steve's a retard, Diana hates necks, Aquaman is a gayfish, etc.
Want to know what all those have in common?They're what people who don't read comics think the character is like.
>>81599025
That doesnt refute what they said about superman though
>>81585194
>because he is invincible and can never lose.
but Kal has been put on his shit by every villain in Justice League
>Superman never loses
>Got beat by Batman in BvS
>Literally died in BvS
>>81598123
After being fucked so hard by DC, Shuster and Siegel would laugh at Superman's current hatedom
>>81585194
He's also patronizing
>>81585377
>>81585744
You just posted a video of him winning a fight.
>>81587501
I like dickhead Superman
>>81590088
what happened after he got pimp slapped?
