What went wrong?
>>81542727
It's too good.
It's boring as fuck and nothing happens. And Rips actor fucking sucks.
>>81542727
Not basing it on the based proof of concept trailer.
Vandal Savage being Hawkgirl's stalker and not an immortal caveman and cultured patron of the arts
Mostly the plot. Everything else is fun.
Nothing. My mom loves it.
>>81542727
Seems ok to me.
It is gonna become the young justice of the live action, really good but underapreciated.
>>81543042
But the Young Justice cartoon was really horrible.
-All they have to do is stab one guy with one knife at any point in time and they fail to do that repeatedly.
-Time travel is a perfect reason for any number of interesting locals and it is utterly wasted.
-Kendra only exists to serve as a love interest.
-Ray has a suit of armor that can also shrink and he barely used it.
-Firestorm is too OP so they never use him, making Jax worthless.
-Snart is an annoying mouthpiece for cynicism who is never wrong.
-Snart is more interesting as a brilliant villain than a useless anti hero.
-Vandal Savage was not cast properly.
>>81542727
They took Captain Cold and Heat Wave away from Flash, thus putting the Rogues story on hold.
>>81542824
Partly this.
This version of Savage is kind of boring and one-dimensional. There's not much too him and as a consequence he doesn't feel like much of a threat.
>>81543205
Seconding this. Tying up Vandal Savage with the Hawk people makes him seem petty and small. I can't take him seriously as a villain when all he wants to do is hook up with a chick that's been rejecting him for four thousand years.
>>81543395
I think the origin thing could have worked as just him getting powers from the same source, but I don't know why they went with the cuck shit. JLU did it too and it was shit there as well.
>>81543082
You're thinking of Teen Titans
>>81542727
Not enough Felicity, of course.
>>81543454
Nah, YJ was the one with hacky shit writing and took itself way too seriously.
>>81543531
Go home Greg
It's a show about d-list superheroes and villains. What you expect?
>>81543170
Mostly accurate. Other things of note:
Rip seems both incompetent and wholly uncharismatic. I have no idea why anyone would follow his lead
Time travel rules are too loose. I'm not just going to accept "It's too risky! You wouldn't understand!" any time someone suggests using time travel to solve a problem
Savage has no buildup. He has no master plan that he's working towards, since he's already done it and they're working backwards. How do you create tension from that?
>>81543042
Young Justice Season 1 was barely passable. Season 2 was unwatchable shit.
Writers had such a hard on for Artemis they didn't care that there was no logical reason for her to be involved in the story at all despite being the central part of it. They never demonstrated what a second undercover agent was needed for. And even if they did, Artemis made no sense as undercover agent, M'gann or J'on could have done an infinitely better job.
>>81543454
Teen titans never pretended to have a good plot. Straight up every arc and every episode was Adult had a boner for the kid(s), Kid(s) yelled stranger danger and kicked their ass. No plot holes, no non-existent motivations. Straight simple theme and execution ideal for a kids show.
>>81542727
>The CW
It's way more fun than it has any right to be.
>>81544024
Beats le wacky anime faces at every turn.
>>81544730
>it's dumb so it's good
Interesting defense of Teen Titans
>>81544807
>>it's dumb so it's good
>Interesting defense of Teen Titans
Literally the first line I wrote.
>Teen titans never pretended to have a good plot.
The point being, one knew what it was and succeeded with a dumb show. The other failed with an attempt at smart show. No matter how dumb Teen Titans was, its execution was profoundly better.
The Teen Titans comic was shit, it had 1 good run and that was it. DC never succeeded making any of the character relevant for the past 30 years despite how much they try to shove Cyborg down our throats. And yet, the popularity of show has kept the animated version of the characters alive for 13 years now.
So yeah, the show was a good kids cartoon. Simple well defined characters and a simple logical plot does worlds better than trying to write "Romeo&Juliet vs Hamlet" (spoiler alert: that was the plot of young justice).
>>81544730
>They never demonstrated what a second undercover agent was needed for.
In case something went wrong with the first agent, Aqualad, and he needed someone to pull him out. Considering what did happen, it was a good call.
>And even if they did, Artemis made no sense as undercover agent
She had actual experience and knowledge of villains since she came from a family of them.
Marc Guggenheim
>>81544730
yj season 2 felt pretty joyless to me. season one they acted like teenagers season everyone is a super serious soldier. that and relationship drama god that was unwatchable
>>81545427
>In case something went wrong with the first agent, Aqualad, and he needed someone to pull him out. Considering what did happen, it was a good call.
What happened was because Nightwing refused to tell his comrades his plan, a mistake he openly admitted to at the end of the season.
But lets consider this as a plan. Why would you have a backup agent that is only trusted by your main agent? Wouldn't a better plan be to replace one of the members of the evil organization with someone that could steal their memories and assume their physical form? (A task that could be done by M'Gann, J'onn, Zatanna or any number of super powered adults). Or hell, why not just buy off one of the contract killers to be a double agent? Why insert an agent with less authority, less privilege, and a smaller scope of access than your main agent?
It was because the writers had a boner for Artemis and they really wanted to force the "surprise twist" at the end where her boyfriend, who was never in any danger unlike her, was the one to die.
>>81545427
>She had actual experience and knowledge of villains since she came from a family of them.
She had very little experience with them. Her sister was the one to take off and become a villain. That alone isn't enough to justify sending a civilian in. Aqualad made sense. It was his father. She didn't. She had no powers, and her weapon of choice was left behind. Her primary skill set was set aside for this task.
What she is is a Camera Character like Lois Lane from Man Of Steel, she had no purpose, reason or relevance to the plot, meant only to experience the story first hand and for the audience to empathize with.
That being said, there are good Camera Characters. See Mad Max.
Did anyone know that Kendra used to be a barista?
>>81546191
Honestly, it's weird that she even defines herself by that. She had that job for what, a month?
>>81542727
cheap tv writing and a cast that is too big.
>>81543395
>I can't take him seriously as a villain when all he wants to do is hook up with a chick that's been rejecting him for four thousand years.
He also loves killing the Hawks and being a crazy world conquering cult leader.
>>81543438
Yeah but in JLU it was just Hath Set, and Hath Set being this creepy Hawkfolk stalker/killer is a lynchpin of the Hawk mythos.
JLU Vandal Savage was more comic booky, being a brutal supercaveman obsessed with world domination. (Like that time he iced Hitler and pursued WW2 with War Wheels and shit)
This whole show suffers from the Terminator paradox. Why don't they just go back to ten minutes before their last attempt?
Same thing that went wrong on the rest of Berlanti's productions.
He sucks and so do the writers he hires.
So much waste.
>>81542727
The "kill Vandal Savage" plot is not particularly well played, because Rip seems totally incompetent at getting his team to actually listen to him.
Savage's, Hawkman's and to a lesser extent Jax's actors are pretty weak.
Time travel thus far seems to be almost totally inconsequential.
We can all agree that the very concept of the post-apocalypse Star City episode was bullshit, right? Weren't these people chosen specifically because it wouldn't have a major effect on the timestream?
>>81542727
Everyone is just extremely underpowered and incompetent. It's the only way the writers can justify this many metas/techies on one team and can't even stop one fucking dude with average strength.
If the characters aren't distracted by a love subplot, they're stepping on each other's toes some other way. Bungling and tripping their way through each episode so Hitler can escape through the window yet again.
This Ray/Kendra romance has killed most of my interest in this show. Almost as cringey and forced as Natasha/Bruce Banner.
>>81546494
>implying Rip knows what the fuck he is doing
>>81546744
But it was decided by his computer! He was given a list of people who wouldn't have an effect!
>>81546494
Time travel in general, as well as being a Time Master isn't an exact science.
>>81546879
They have advanced modelling to predict what will happen when people are removed from the time stream. It's bullshit
I'd be a better Time Lord right now with no preparation than Rip Hunter in this show. I'd be a better immortal cave man right now with no preparation than Vandar Adg is in this show. It takes a big ol' poop on my generous suspension of disbelief that both the hero and the villain suck at what they do so much.
Also the bounty hunter's identity is the first thing I can think of that has come around full circle. This is supposedly a time travel show. Bring on the fucking time travel. Bring on the multi-episode plots, bring on the references to past episodes. All we've gotten is this. It's boring and uninspired and dumbed down even more than it supposedly needs to be for a tv audience. You can dumb it back up a little guys.
Back when all they were saying was that they were developing a third show that would feature some of the more minor characters from the other shows, I was thinking they were going to make The Brave and the Bold. Think more anthology show made up of two, maybe three, episode arcs that contain plot threads that culminate in the season finale.
But we got a time travel show where they never try to use time travel to solve any problem other than "kill Vandal Savage before he conquers the world in the future" and everybody jobs hard as fuck or just stands around like they've forgotten their skill sets.
They have like future guns that shoot lasers but have like bullet chambers. How that work? Is it a laser bullet? Compressed light in a bullet form and then pop pop motherfucker it's coming right at chu!
>>81543531
So why does everyone hate her again?
>>81547443
Oh this'll be fun.
>>81543170
Adding "Plot kills itself because it keeps breaking its own rules leaving gaping holes like why not just go back to after Risk's first failed attempt and kill him then"
Should have just made this exiles DC edition.
>>81542727
I don't know. The idea of the show is fantastic and everything I could want, I like the characters, it has cool easter eggs, and I can't think of anything I dislike of it but it just doesn't hit that sweet spot for me.
>>81547443
If you don't already know, then that means you don't even watch Arrow
>>81547261
All for show, designed by people with retro design fetish.
