>this was better than Morrison's
>and Claremont's
> no
As a whole it was but Morrison had higher highs (riot at Xavier's/Cassandra nova)
Great Cyclops
That's pretty much it.
Nope. After the first arc Whedon shat the bed.
>>81535928
>Big ass bullet
it was so stupid.
As a trade, and with its high points, certainly. But it came out painfully slowly with constant delays, and the rest of the MU and X-Men line had long since moved on, leaving it in continuity limbo with fans exasperated and increasingly uninvested.
>>81535928
agreed. Actual art as well
>>81535928
I loved this run but I wouldn't call it better than morrisons and not better than 'parts' of claremonts run. But I would put it in the top three with those two...well top four cos number one is of course chuck austen.
>>81535928
>Josh Whedon
>good
you might as well be a Bendisfag.
>>81535928
Overrated run.
The first trade was good, the rest, not so much.
>>81538119
>Overrated run.
what isn't overrated that more than 2 people like?
>>81535928
Fun run and did wonders for Cyclops as a character. But that's it.
>>81537181
>I've never heard of Railguns before.
>>81535928
Wow fucking plebbest of taste. Please just kill yourself. It was a mess with pacing issues that undid everything Morrison worked so hard to establish to fix the Xmen.
>>81537735
Bendis is a dime store knock-off of whedon.
>>81537181
>pretending to not think kitty phasing an entire bullet through a planet was based as fuck
>>81538682
I got a love hate thing with whedons run. Cos i hated the x-men getting back into super heroics. But i fucking loved the way that they did it.
Honestly though if anyone undid everything i'd say it was goddamn house of M.
Honestly I'm not a fan of John Cassaday
>>81538896
I couldnt get over the awful dialogue or characterization.
>>81538927
Me neither. Never got over their "always looks angry" face.
>>81538872
I actually cried. Like I hit the two page spread and it hit me hard. Such Sheraton moment!
I thought the biggest plothole ever was the premise that these "hard" aliens had the medical tech tobring an Earth mutant back from the deadbut on their homeworld they had no word for "hospital".
WTF? How's that going to work?
Whedon is terrible.
>>81535928
definitely better than morrison
>>81540555
>Such Sheraton moment!
What does this mean? I tried googling and can't find any info.
>>81537181
>hating planet bullet
>hating something with a psychic countermeasure that makes all smart people drooling idiots
It was the dumbest, greatest thing I have ever seen.
Read this for the first time recently and it seemed kinda mediocre. Everything felt like a crappy movie from the stupid quips, over dramatic plotlines, catty dialogue and sex scenes. Guess that's why Whedon is so good at making marvel capeshit
>>81536185
Wasn't his lower lows WAY lower though?
Take John Sublime, intelligent bacteria (that's in everyone) infecting a human host in order to be extra assholey to the mutant race, that's just dumb.
And more than just dumb, done better when it was intelligent ill will on the psychic plane infecting a human host in order to be extra assholey to the mutant race,
A.K.A.: The Shadow King.
What was even the point of that? Did Morrison think he was creating a new iconic villian? One to replace the one he killed off for no reason other than his own contempt for that character?
At least Whedon gave one character the right kind of send-off, plucking them out of virtual obscurity as a then-forgotten-by-writers X-Man and giving them the happy life before their heroic end.
... And the character he created wasn't there to fill a soon vacated position, but made to ask some important ethical questions that fit the overall X-Men theme. Lame character, yes, but not made in service of the writer's ego.
>>81543939
It reminded me of the time Lex Luthor created an invisible force field to block out the sun's sunlight.
Classic comics schlock.
>>81544451
Kek Sublime was a high you fucking pleb
>>81544628
Listen, U-Man, that was the single most idiotic undo I have ever read in a comic.
Anti-mutant bigotry has nothing to do with basic human nature and the established real-world psychological and evolutionary underpinnings of exclusionism as instinctual survival strategem in primative societies, no, none of that ... it's this magically self-aware bacteria that fears the muties what it can't control, despite being depicted as being able to control at least one mutie.
WTF?
Under that theory of anti-mutant hatred the entire mutant/human coexistence delima can be solved with Beast developing an airborn vaccine.
Or hell's bells, why not have Elixir run around and cure everyone of bigotry? It IS just a disease, right?
>>81535928
The most entry level, pleb x book published. But better than anything else from the last decade.
>>81545035
Maybe intro as all hell, but X-Men mythology gets too far into the weeds as is.
I'm twenty years in and still don't know everything.
>>81545035
Uncanny X-Men is much better than this shit.
>>81535928
>>and Claremont's
No.
>>81545208
Meant to say X-Force
>>81536041
I love it when the first reply is the best reply.
>>81544954
The Phoenix destroyed him by time fuckery though. Morrison always puts the toys back in the box.
That was just Morrison turning the hate into a literal disease. A little on the nose but it's his style of writing and I enjoy it.
>>81545208
The current run? It's okay so far but we don't know where the story's going to turn yet.
What if they do a super-dumb plot twist? Or rehash an old idea to death? Or kill off a dozen more characters just to be edgy?
We've all seen good starts go bad.
>>81545261
Sigh... Fine, I'll give you that one. But omygawd I myself hated that sooo much.
>>81545398
See >>81545231
Even after Dark Angel Saga it was still better than Whedon's stuff.
>>81535928
You're way overselling something that relies on Breakworld for their primary antagonists.
Goddamn the Breakworlders were dumb.
>>81545472
(little too early in my response)
Okay, X-Force. That was really going for the whole epic quality before it wrapped up, wasn't it?
I can see that.
Still, wasn't it just a little too dark and violent?
Plus, it wasn't for newbs. You really had to know your backstories to get through those later issues.
>>81545035
> But better than anything else from the last decade.
Nah man, Mike Carey delivered some quality goods over that time.
>>81545619
I don't really know why the day-to-day writers don't have the fanbases that these from-up-on-high writers do when they always leave it for others to pick up the storythreads and make a history out of it.
>>81545857
Because when they write the book, there isn't this massive authorial subtext of "look at my penis! It's huge! I have a huge penis and am an important writer!"
>>81544628
Only Morrisonfags defend Sublime.
>>81546074
Well, that IS the specific dialog that made me a Bendis fan.
But seriously, isn't the major changes and sweeping stories something that the Marvel boardroom has to okay? They can give these character arcs and major events to some of the blue collar creative teams too, they just always pick the writing gueststars to greenlight the crazy ideas. There's nothing more ballsy to it than that.
>>81545610
Not a single thing you listed is a flaw
>>81545610
>a little too dark and violent?
but
>x-force
more like a shining like light in the world of watered down comics, er..Murky water, just to complete the analogy or whatever.
I'm not the guy you're replying to but, that comic made me a permanent Remender fan.
but that comic specifically dropped significantly after Opena left, issue #19 and beyond the series didn't seem as fun...I mostly just didn't like the captain Britain multi verse arc.
>>81546413
Waaaaat the Captain Britain arc was top notch
>>81545857
I'm a huge fan of Bunn and a lot of the work he does. and lemire is winning me over with extraordinary but his last issue (not todays) of old man logan was pure trash.
>>81546443
>and lemire is winning me over with extraordinary
Who's your favorite character? Only characterfags love that trash of book.
>>81546434
I liked when Remender was writing him in secret avengers, just didn't feel like it fit in uxf
>>81546413
Man, I have the first trade sitting right next to me, "The Apocalypse Solution". Bought it since a few years ago and never got to finish it (never got really far actually). It's just 2edgy4me.
What am I missing?
>>81546524
Balls
>>81546465
uhh, I just finished reading issue #8... I dunno? magick? she seems to have the most story going for her in that book. better than that ANXM 6 I just read which was full of heavy handed religious context and previous issues full of in your face growin up as a gay is hard.
It's not so much that I'm a character fag but I really only have an interest in x-men when it comes to comics. I'll buy other fringe stuff, like Vision and Black knight (rip). when I'm interested. looking forward to non ellis moon knight next week.
>>81546524
It's the best comic written since the aforementioned astonishing ex-men (better). the first four trades are so are literal comic book magic. context: I grew up in the 90's, edgy is in my blood so I don't understand the dislike for everything that is, to the extreme. I do understand the argument of extreme for extremes sake but that's not what this book is in the slightest.
>>81546385
Those in-the-weeds books can never sell well for long. That's why you don't see them that often.
Without entry-level writing they're never gaining new readers, all they can do is lose readership.
Plus, the guy without skin made me queasy.
>>81546636
This book did very well though? it went to 35 issues which is very high for this modern marvel age. Also try finding a copy of issue #4 for a reasonable price.
>>81546636
Losing readership has no bearing on how good a story is. For X Writers it goes
>Claremont
>Morrison
>Kirby
>Remender
>Yost
>>81546702
This pretty agreeable, personally I would remove morrison all together. I recognize his works, but I discredit them for what they did to the x-men in the years after. (decompression / realism)
>>81546743
What are you smoking that Morrison's run was based on realism? He ditched the costumes because the Xmen aren't heroes. They are a race of people trying to survive and will do whatever is necessary.
>>81546830
>They are a race of people trying to survive and will do whatever is necessary.
Go home, Scott. That's fascist talking.
>>81546697
>>81546702
I'm not saying they shouldn't make these stories, just saying why I understand the hesitation in making tem.
Lord knows that there's a good half-dozen X-characters that you can't ever write about without diving headlong into the weeds.
I sure would like to see Nate Grey, Blink, Longshot, Marrow, or Rachel Summers in stories again, but their backstories are nightmares for the newbs to wrap their heads around.
>>81546830
well, that sounds like a Realistic explanation to me.
>>81546850
>nightmares for the newbs to wrap their heads around.
They really aren't, this notion that you can't write without a fucking tutorial is complete nonsense.
I hadn't read Morrisons Fantomex before reading UXF, and I didn't feel lost or like I was missing anything.
>>81535928
I love Whedon's run, the ending as that Firefly vibe and I love it. But Claremont and Morrison are way better.
>>81546910
yeah nobody was touchin that "Better than claremont" troll bait with a 10 foot pole.
>>81535928
You are a plebeian.
>>81546830
Costumes?
It's not that, it's the shotgunning new concepts at the readers, undermining every status quo, the epileptic pacing, and the weird-as-normal excess found in his every work.
It's too much, it shatters the suspension of disbelief and intentionally has the readers confused for the sake of effect.
It's fine for some but you have to admit that it's not fr everyone.
>>81535928
hell no and no
It was still good though
>>81547017
The guy he was replying to.
It's exactly this kindof stuff that I was talking about. That sort of, every element needs to be broken down and explained in a rational manner and it just sucks all the fun straight out.
I might be repeating what you're saying due to lack of understanding but, It feels like he's attacking the comic medium itself, like he really hates comics.
I see this a lot recently too, within the comic itself without breaking the fourth wall villain names are always ridiculed, and older villains are injected as jokes and defeated in a single panel or two as throwaways.
>>81546897
IInterdimentional Faux-French organic supersentinel vs. interdimentional genetically engeneered mutant weapon refugee.
One of these has a complex backstory. One of these is intentionally hypershallow for narrative effect.
Just listing the archenemies' motivations and abilities are tutorial-worthy for many X-Men, going into the full backstory to fiinally resolve a storyline or two... that's what will lose the newb reader.
>>81547108
You're right about him attacking the comic medium itself, it seems to be a repeating theme in his works to breach the fourth wall even if only in conceptualization.
I don't know if he does hate comics, I've seen no direct evidence of that, but it wouldn't surprise me.
>>81535928
Morrison's is overrated, his typical wordy metaphysical concepts couldn't make up for all the stupid shit he did
>>81546616
Well I didn't like Astonishing X-Men much. I liked the first trade and Emma Frost's banter, but >>81544077 accurately described my opinion about Whedon's run. I definitely prefer X-Men: Supernovas and other bits of Carey's run over Whedon's.
I bought the trade since I read a lot of praise about it, my LCS was raving about it and it was 50% off. I never got to finish it since then, I guess because I don't usually like über-dark stuff (but weirdly enough, I enjoyed Welcome Back, Frank and the Daredevil show, or maybe they aren't really dark after all).
But I feel like I'm only looking at the trees and missing the bigger picture, which is why I'm here, talking about UXF. Should I give it another chance? What am I missing?
>>81547198
You're just wrong, assuming everyone is an idiot and can't pick up on small details can only hurt the medium.
>>81547309
The first 3 trades worth of issues just offer a wholly satisfying story. There's really not...anything deeper, Remender just a very satisfying writer to read.
>>81547108
>>81547260
I picked up one story of his where this Sherlock Holmes rip-off was hunting this Moriarity rip-off who was killing off major characters important to the plot yet revealed and when they finally met up the Moriarity explained how he had deduced that they were inside a story, and were both rip-offs of other characters, how he had been killing characters off before their important dialog in an effort to derail the story, and how he had built a machine to destroy the story they were trapped inside.
Guess how that story ended. The meta wears thin after a bit.
>>81547384
>how he had been killing characters off before their important dialog in an effort to derail the story,
Sounds like a half ass excuse not to write good dialogue.
>>81547312
>assuming everyone is an idiot and can't pick up on small details
I hate to be the one to break this to you:
Read the average complaint thread on /co/, it's always disapointing to discover that you're in a higher percentile, I know. But those people are indeed representative of the masses.
>>81547474
those people don't actually buy comics anyway, those are the type that just read the storytimes and complain
>>81547434
It sure as fuck read like that.
And it was no great consolation that it was an intentional story element.
>>81547502
Man that's really depressing.
Probably the best straight-faced comic-y comic book published by Marvel
>>81547560
My only complaint with it, which is actually prolly why everyone says cyclops is so good in it, but he turned wolverine into a slapsticky punchline.
>>81547560
I would have thought that honour would go to Spidey, or maybe ... no, just Spidey.
>>81547610
Considering that at the time we had Wolverine EVERYWHERE, one book just having him as the punchline was great
>>81547610
Whedon hates Sniktbub because he kills.
But he was fine with killers on Avengers. Money is hell of incentive.
>>81547676
Never got why Whedon never worked on anything Spider-Man. He likes quips and teenage drama. Spidey likes quips and teenage drama. It could work.
>>81547610
The thing that is the opposite of the thing is the thing itself.
There was enough tough-guy all-business Wolvie to still be Wolverine, and it's not as if he isn't overexposed enough to survive a little out of character panels without losing face.
>>81547685
Yeah I get that, and I'm a bias fan so I can't say much to it. just frustrating for such a great book to shit on my guy ya know.
>>81547686
that's always a bummer to see stuff like this.
>>81547740
It wasn't just the particular mind control stuff though, his character was super simplified in that comic. like I said above it's fine just kindof a disappointing thing to have.
>>81547686
It's easy to lose sight of the original Wolverine a la X-Men concept of a reformed/reforming killer trying to turn over a new leaf.
It's eXtra easy to intentionally forget that concept when as a writer you know edgy sells books.
>>81535928
>this was better than Morrison's
>and Claremont's
>better
no.
>more accessible
yes.
One might even say it's morecasual
>>81546850
>Blink
Does anyone care about 616 Blink at all anyway?
Like, yeah, maybe back in '96 fresh off AoA and with all her Phalanx Covenant cohorts in Generation X, but since then the only Blink that got serious development was AoA Blink, in Exiles.
>whedonfags still exist
>>81550970
is...is there...is there an Earth-182 Blink?
>>81547708
All the characters Whedon would have killed for cheap drama have already died.
>>81550970
That's because she died in Phalanx Covenant, ya mook.
>>81551069
Yeah, and she was resurrected in Necrosha, about 20 years to late for anyone to care, is my point.
>>81537213
Floppies are suffering.
