Do you agree with Larsen
>I can't disagree with any of this. The thing is--bit by bit--month by month--Image is gaining ground. As Marvel and Dc continue to reboot, restart, revise and crossover they are shedding readers, fed up with the gimmicks and crushing disappointment. Meanwhile, Image continues to put out solid, entertaining books from creators whose work you can depend on. Tired of writers and artists bailing after a four issue run? There is an alternative.
>A #1 on the cover doesn't mean anything anymore and just like the gimmick cover fads of the '90s burned themselves out--this has as well. We're seeing books with some momentum at Marvel and DC being axed and restarted, and losing that momentum.
>Meanwhile--across the street at Image--books chug along with the same creative team, month after month and readers are able to read a complete, satisfying story from a consistent, committed creative team.
>I love the shit out of the old Image. I'd love to see some of those characters brought back into the mix--but I don't think it's a necessary component for Image's success. What Image needs are enthusiastic creators telling the stories that they want to tell. And that's what we're seeing. Not somebody else doing another Youngblood revival in the hope of getting some magic Liefeld pixie dust on themselves--but creators telling their own stories with their own characters.
>We're already the Big Three. Marvel, DC and Image are the only companies in double digits in terms of market share. And as their numbers fall--ours rise. Image clawing its way to the top isn't going to happen overnight. It's the long game. But it's happening.
http://community.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?69836-How-Image-can-break-up-the-Big-2/page4
First bit is true. Renumbering every year is shit. But the part about Image competing, I dunno. I guess if they do it will be because DC/Marvel getting worse in sales rather than a sparked interest in Image.
>>81496948
Yeah Convergence and Secret Wars cost them readers. Not long time readers, but the new readers they're struggling to get in. The people who read Batgirl, Gotham Academy, and whatever the Marvel equivalents are went into the shops during those events only to find out their comics were being sidelined for months for some crossover event shit they didn't care about.
>>81496948
>Tired of writers and artists bailing after a four issue run?
let's not pretend this doesn't happen at Image, difference is the series doesn't continue at all.
>>81497724
yeah but image books take longer breaks than Secret Wars and Convergence caused
>>81496948
>Meanwhile--across the street at Image--books chug along with the same creative team, month after month and readers are able to read a complete, satisfying story from a consistent, committed creative team.
The only image books that sell are Walking Dead and Saga. There will never be a big 3
It's kind of sad to see Image trying THIS hard to be a "relevant" competitor to the Big 2.
The key thing that they don't quite understand is that their business model relies on the success of Big 2 comics... Like, the overwhelming majority of their catalogue is from writers and artists who had their initial big breaks as Big 2 hirees. The idea that Image can get bigger as DC/Marvel get smaller is ridiculous.
>>81498976
>Like, the overwhelming majority of their catalogue is from writers and artists who had their initial big breaks as Big 2 hirees.
So? Its not like the creators themselves are somehow tainted by working for publishers you retard.
The biggest fish start in the biggest ponds.
DC's Vertigo rebirth is going to fuck Image in the ass with the deal they're cutting creators
>>81499164
But the whole point is that the NEED the Big 2 to be successful, or else their comics won't sell.
TWD took almost 7 years to consistently reach the top 100, at least 10 years to be officially "popular". Saga got there faster by being by a very well known and acclaimed writer on Big 2 imprints.
The overwhelming majority of Image's catalog is filled with comics by Big 2 creators. And even then, they don't have money, patience, or perhaps courage to stick with a long-form series that they have to put up money for.
Unless Image changes its practices, things aren't going to magically improve.
>>81498309
Here's the thing: the people who read Image are the kind of people looking for something different. Their audience actively seeks them out.
>>81498976
>The idea that Image can get bigger as DC/Marvel get smaller is ridiculous.
Yeah, but only because they compete in different spheres. Image is fighting with Vertigo and to a lesser extent MAX. By virtue of their business strategy, they attract writers with a passion for their work and the Big Two have been ignoring both adult comics and that market segment. Archie Comics has been dipping their toe in the water, and Dark Horse is a dumpster fire, so who knows if they'll ever get their shit together.
DC wants to revamp their lineup and get people interested in their core properties so you'll go see their movies; Marvel exists to find potential new movie franchises so they're shotgunning everything out to see where the fish are biting. They hit with Ms. Marvel, but the rest have been lackluster. The result is basically the same - longtime comic fans (who are usually adult males) have been ignored in favor of new, untapped demographics.
I don't see any of this changing any time soon - both Marvel and DC are owned by giant conglomerates that want to push out merchandise to kids. They might sell the occasional MAX or Vertigo title, but that's not their focus. With a limited budget, you're only going to occasionally get a decent Elseworld or serious comic to maintain credibility, but most of that is going to their aforementioned strategy.
>>81499655
>, at least 10 years to be officially "popular"
Larsen wasn't saying it was going to be an over night thing. He's talking about providing steady consistent quality and how that can pay off
>>81499663
Have you not heard the rumors about DC "Rebirthing" Vertigo. Seems like the lack of magic characters in Rebirth is because Vertigo is going back to it's roots
>>81499858
>Have you not heard the rumors about DC "Rebirthing" Vertigo. Seems like the lack of magic characters in Rebirth is because Vertigo is going back to it's roots
Let's see what they publish before we crown them with laurels.
>>81499918
I just think you're being a bit cynical by saying DC is relaunching just to get people interested in their movies. DC tried to give us obscure D listers with New 52 and DCYou and they didn't sell. I don't like it and I'm sure you don't either but Rebirth is DC giving people what they want
>>81496948
Well, he's not wrong. 2/3 of what I'm buying is Image, and the reason I really started looking into Image, Dark Horse and the like is because of all the 90's-esque stuff Marvel and DC are pulling.
>>81500100
>I just think you're being a bit cynical by saying DC is relaunching just to get people interested in their movies. DC tried to give us obscure D listers with New 52 and DCYou and they didn't sell. I don't like it and I'm sure you don't either but Rebirth is DC giving people what they want
Well actually, I didn't know anything about Rebirth so I've got egg on my face. I'm still extremely leery about their recent history, so I'll believe it when I see it. Cautious, but interested.
>>81498782
>>81499655
What do you mean by "sell"?
I'd just like to interject for a moment.
>I’ll give you some really basic rule of thumbs for indie comic commentary:
>Anything selling stably over 10k in single issues is a cause for celebration and joy. The creators are almost certainly extremely happy.
>If you’re selling over (ooh) 12k, you’re probably making more than either of the big two would pay you, unless you’re one of the very biggest names.
>If you’re selling anything near 20k, you probably have to buy drinks for your friends.
Source: Kieron Gillen
An Image title doesn't need to "sell" at 50k or 100k in order to make an impressive amount of money for the creators.
Image already has dozens of success stories amongst its line.
You've got this whole industry all wrong.
>>81500595
I think what he's trying to say is that Image relies on already known talent to get people interested (I know I was), and that since it requires a lot of capital from the creator upfront to get started, it tends to exclude the newer, more indie writers out there.
>>81500719
But their argument relies on this spurious idea that only TWD and Saga have sales worth considering.
Only Kirkman, Vaughan, Millar and Young have comics selling in the HOLY SHIT I'M RICH tier, but Image is already in a position where a decent amount of their lineup has sales that make Marvel and DC nervous.
>>81500595
I mean in comparison to DC and Marvel. The fact that 10k is good for image and cancellation numbers for DC and Marvel tells you everything. It's good for the creators and that's it
>>81496948
I think the most telling thing about how Image is gaining ground is how Garth Ennis himself has moved over.
DC/Vertigo's own bit of comic history has finally left them for Image, and that's huge.
Image will never get as big as DC and Marvel. And it's because of the tie between issues and good books being minis. Paper Girls was really competitive with issue 5 selling 37,000. That's better than roughly 80% of the ANAD books but they took a 3 month break. I hate Fairyland was also doing well even with the knowledge of it being a mini, if it was an ongoing it would have had much more readers.
>>81496948
Aside from the Walking Dead are ther any other Image titles that have any common name recognition? My grandmother knows who Wolverine and The Flash are, she has no idea what the fuck Spawn is, never mind The Savage Dragon.
>>81500595
"Sell", at least as I used it, doesn't mean to make enough money back for the creators. Rather, I'm talking about the context of "Image can outtake the Big 2" or "Image will cause DC/Marvel to be worried".
In THAT context, Image comics don't really "sell." Put another way: Feb 2016 sales had DC/Marvel take up 93 of the Top 100 spots: Image had 5 of the remaining spots. It might look good for Image, but they're nowhere near being a real "threat" to the Big 2.
In any case, calling them the "Big 3" is literally laughable.
>>81500848
And yet, despite all your doom and gloom, Image is still growing in marketshare.
And yet, despite your touting of Saga and TWD as the _only_ contenders, there are already two dozen Image titles where the creators make as much or MORE than they would at Marvel or DC.
Image doesn't grow by having 2 top-sellers today and 4 top-sellers tomorrow. Image grows by having 20 medium-sellers now and 40 medium-sellers soon.
>>81501239
>"Image will cause DC/Marvel to be worried"
If creators make more money at Image than at Marvel or DC, then this makes Marvel and DC worried.
Because, as more creators make more money at Image, fewer creators will be as eager to work with Marvel and DC, and fewer creators will use their best ideas as Marvel and DC (and will instead save their best ideas for Image).
Funny how good news for creators is bad news for Marvel and DC.
>>81500840
I believe you're conflating two different arguments. There's the "Image still sells way lower" argument, and the "If the big 2 collapse Image will lose it's creative core" argument.
>>81501386
The Big Two won't collapse though.
They'll just take up less marketshare and possess less relevance with each passing year.
It'll be a slow process, not all at once.
>>81501346
>fewer creators will be as eager to work with Marvel and DC
>>81501493
>The Big Two won't collapse though.
This. Marvel and DC aren't in the comic book business any more dummies. They're in the movie and licensing of their properties business.
>>81500443
Why do you need to quote everything he says?
>>81501713
>Why do you need to quote everything he says?
I dunno.
>>81496948
I remember my LCS owner mentioned something about Disney thinking about buying Image if they keep chipping away at the market share.
I thought he was just crazy, but Disney is a bunch of spiteful, greedy, fucks.
>>81501861
Your LCS owner might be an idiot.
Image doesn't own any intellectual property other than its own logo.
Buying Image means buying... the logo.
>>81501861
I want to believe that there are still people with integrity in the world and they won't sell to Disney
>>81501559
The movies themselves are just commercials for toys and other merchandise. Mattel is probably pissed that BvS was shit.
>>81501967
But buying that would force all that talent to find a new place to take their work, since one would assume a Disney owned Image would stop letting creators make so much and keep the ips.
It would be a huge dick move from the mouse, but that's nothing new.
>>81502072
>Dark Horse offers to let all the Image creators move their Image arrangements and contracts over to Dark Horse unchanged
>Dark Horse is saved
>>81500719
Most of Image's biggest names are people they found. Fraction, Gillen, Hickman, Remender, Kirkman, Seeley, etc. etc. They still publish a lot of stuff by unknowns although most of it does get drowned out by the big names because they're just publishing so much stuff right now. Joshua Williamson is a recent up-and-comer they broke.
>>81502118
Dark Horse is beyond saving. I'm convinced they're run by three people in dirty office at some strip mall. All their money is kept in a cash box "hidden" in a file cabinet that doesn't close properly.
I love #1s.
There's no way I'm going to read a comic from the middle unless it serves as the true number one to a spinoff.
>>81502356
How do you feel about Prophet #21, Glory #23 and Supreme #41?
>>81502064
Marvel and DC only bother printing comics to keep the "brand" from stagnating and atrophying like Dick Tracy did. I've heard this firsthand from some of the big wigs at both companies. It's all about Spiderman Bazinga t-shirts and soap dispensers being sold at Wal-Mart now. Let me know when Image gets to that point and we'll talk about this "Big Three" bullshit.
>>81501974
McFarlane at least would never allow it and I'm guessing Larsen, Kirkman and Stephenson wouldn't either.
>>81502432
>I've heard this firsthand from some of the big wigs at both companies.
You're not wrong, but do tell.
he's right. image may have alot of filler books in it's ranks, but at least they are consistent and not rebooting everything every 2 years
>>81502535
There's nothing to tell, the comics from Marvel and DC are an afterthought at best. The only goal is to keep them "relevant" to the target demographic.
>>81502705
He means elaborate on who told you this
>>81500100
Not to mention that DC doesn't need to sell comics to get people interested in their movies. A readership of 25k is barely a dent in population that will go see Suicide Squad
>>81502152
And a lot of those names go write for the Big 2 anyway
>>81502737
No offense or anything, but I'm not quite that stupid. I've dealt with a number of people who didn't know when to shut the fuck up online, I'm not lighting up the Twittersphere on account of my own dumbassery. I understand the value of an "Anonymous" opinion, that's why I come here. Sorry.
>>81502432
That's not wrong, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the individual comic arms of those companies aren't trying to maintain relevance. Disney and WB may care very little, but Marvel and DC still do
>>81503067
>but Marvel and DC still do
Trust me when I tell you this: they really don't. I've seen newbie creators come in ready to slay on behalf of some of their favorite characters and after editorial meddling, constant idea rebukes, etc. they visibly deflate after about 4-7 months. The heavy "Oh, this is just a job? Well, shit." sets in.
>>81503315
poor Fawkes
>>81503315
It seems the most passionate people about the Big 2 characters are in the indie crowd. People like Michel Fiffe and Ed Piskor have such deep affection for those comics
>>81503455
>Fiffe will never be given a team book by DC or Marvel and told he can write whatever he wants with whatever obscure characters he wants
>>81503557
I can't trust any Fiffe comic where Fiffe isn't the artist.
>>81503704
That story in the Bloodshot annual with Ben Marra was great.
>>81503557
Disney is a publicly traded company, their only responsibility is to the shareholder. It is what it is, I guess.
>>81498187
>difference is the series doesn't continue at all.
But this is a good thing, learning to let go is a huge problem in American comics.
>>81503988
I know the guy who writes Chew said working on it made him never want to do a long series again.
>>81503315
It's like any job anon. If you think you're going to go in and make massive changes you're delusional . They have to stick it out for a few years until they get a name for themselves
Image supposedly catching up to the others and making the Big Three? Yeah, I've heard that one before.
>>81503988
>>81504088
4 issues isn't really enough to make a lasting impression with people
>>81504088
>long
Considering that John Layman cites Dave Sim as one of his biggest influences, Chew isn't that long.
>>81504132
Changes at Marvel and DC are done by committee.
>>81502432
Image is already one of "The Big Three". It has 11% marketshare of comics in circulation.
>>81504088
There are people who can work on things for a long time and do a good job, but I truly believe most creators NEEDS to change their creative focus every once in a while, else their works suffers.
>>81504164
Yes it is, a few issues or a GN can leave a lasting impression. Have you never read a GOAT miniseries?
>>81499400
What are they doing now? I thought the pretty much killed off vertigo because they decided not to give creators shit
>>81496948
>A #1 on the cover doesn't mean anything anymore
That's Image's fault, Erik. You assholes invented that shit.
Hell, did Youngblood EVER have a #2 issue?
>>81501861
He is reatraded and has no idea how Image works, and he is a fucking owner of a funny book store what the fuck my negro
>>81504465
>inventing X = overusing X
It's not even true he invented that.
>>81504251
Images has had properties out for over 23 years now, none of which are commonly know except for the Walking Dead. Compare Spider-man for example: debuted in '62, by 1982 he was a common well known character. At this point it's apparent Image will never have anything like that and there will never be a "Big Three".
>>81504465
I think that, not only did Youngblood have a #2, but the last issue of Youngblood to come out was #78.
Not that you care, of course. That would get in the way of your rage.
>>81504630
>Image doesn't have a series that's been running for 23 years
That's just fine by me. Good series end.
>>81501081
I Hate Fairyland is an ongoing though
>>81504630
I worry about people like you. I honestly wonder how you manage to function in this world.
Do you understand simple math? Then consider this: Having a dozen titles sell 20k is better than one title selling 100k.
Image doesn't need more heavyweight titles and Big Names in order to increase their market share. Image's market share is already increasing because they have an increasing number of middleweight titles.
>>81504919
Is it yet another image book having a massive break?
>>81498187
Or having multi-month delays between issues. Guess that's one perk to creater-owned books: They're not shackled by corporate protocols like schedules.
>>81504948
Except
a) There aren't a dozen titles selling at 20k. Barring first issues, they probably have a handful at 20k on any given month
b) One tile sells 100k, but they also have a number pulling 70k, and 60k, and 50k, and 40k. Seeing a pattern here?
>>81504988
Yes
>>81504948
>Image will just keep flooding the market with mediocre titles
No bad can ever come of this. Right, guys?
>>81504988
It's coming back in June. So like, three months? That's pretty good considering Skottie writes and draws it.
>>81504948
20k is cancellation numbers for DC and Marvel
>>81505050
>>Image will just keep flooding the market with mediocre titles
They're the least guilty out of the big 3 that does that.
>>81504900
Image actually does have I think two series that have been running since more or less the start of the company- Savage Dragon and Spawn.
>>81504630
I dunno, Timely was founded in 1939 and Spider-Man came about in 1962, that's 23 years...
>>81505050
>"IMAGE WILL NEVER BE IN THE BIG THREE!"
>Image becomes indisputably part of the Big Three
>"BUT THEY DID IT ALL WRONG, IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN QUALITY OVER QUANTITY!"
Lol.
>>81504948
>Hey, Grandma! Ever heard of Marvel comics?
>Why, yes! Yes, I have!
>How about DC comics?
>Of course!
>Image comics?
>.....
Image could have 100% of the comic market share and it wouldn't matter because they don't have a single Hulk, Superman, etc.
The comic book business has been shrinking steadily and the only thing that matters are the properties at this point, which Image has zero. There will never be a "Big Three".
>>81504948
>>81504948
>Having a dozen titles sell 20k
Images 5th best selling title "Outcast" barely sells over 20k and that is with Kirkman involved and then you have Huck which just scrapes past. The average Image book sells at about 10 to 12k
>>81496948
They just rebooted The Darkness and Spawn had two restarts recently
>>81505059
DC and Marvel cancel at that number arbitrarily.
20k actually means a shitton of money.
See >>81500595.
>>81505104
>>81505161
>Still trying to force "The big 3"
>>81496948
considering DC is basically saying WE'RE OUT to the floppy market and moving more to bookstores while Marvel continues to desperately grasp at that floundering market, Image is going to be crowded out of the growing market and stuck in the failing one
Comic book sales in general are really pathetic. 100k is a small portion of america for an entire medium
>>81505213
Alright, whatever, take the big 3 out of my statement if it triggers your autism too much
>They're the least guilty out of Marvel, DC and Image that does that.
>>81502118
The new Previews catalog has a big cover spread centered on Dark Horse's 30th Anniversary. Covering All their hottest properties! Like Sin City, Lone Wolf and Cub... um, Ah My Goddess, and Mask!
>>81505168
>The comic book business has been shrinking steadily
Why are Big Two apologists always in such deep denial?
The comic industry in 2012 was 14.72% bigger than 2011.
The comic industry in 2013 was 9.04% bigger than 2012.
The comic industry in 2014 was 4.39% bigger than 2013.
The comic industry in 2015 was 7.17% bigger than 2014.
It's a small industry, but it currently is not shrinking.
>>81505354
>deliberately ignores Hellboy
>>81505202
hardly any image comics sell 20k and even if they do thier numbers are constantly declining
>>81505354
Man, some of those are really pathetic. But as long as DH continues to publish Conan comics, they will always be my publisherfu.
Now if they could only pry Red Sonja from Dynamite's hands...
>>81505376
>2012
the start of Marvel's relaunch binge
notice how it drops every year until 2015, the start of the Star Wars comics
outside of #1s, events, and Star Wars, floppy sales are tanking across the board
>>81505420
All comics are declining. That's standard attrition. The goal is to achieve overall growth by having the *next* comic you launch get marginally better sales than the *last* comic you launched.
>>81505381
Hellboy's like they're lone homegrown hit remaining. Everything else is a translation, a media tie-in, or a line that's been moot for at least a decade or three.
>>81505256
Floppies are overpriced and they took them out of grocery stores, so you have to travel to a neckbeard den to get them.
Most people just buy the books in a bookstore these days, whereas I remember every grocery store or nickle and dime had at least a small comic book rack.
>>81505493
>The goal is to sell the IP to some Hollywood bigwig so you can get a TV show made
FTFY
>>81505250
>considering DC is basically saying WE'RE OUT to the floppy market
They're not doing that
>>81505517
And DC is going to get no credit for taking down the price on all their books
>>81505549
>ramping up OGN production
>reducing floppy prices while double shipping a ton of big books to increase trade turnover
>publishing bunches of cult-classic-bait tradebait series
aren't they?
>>81505445
Dark Horse would be a better home for Red Sonja than Dynamite's perpetual pulp hero re-launches.
>>81505376
>a mild swelling
This happens to be a sign of injury, but never mind that right?
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-comic-book-industry-is-on-fire-2014-8
>Even though total unit sales remain lower than during peaks in the 1950s or early 1990s, according to Miller, the comic book business is booming.
Yeah, even though sales have significantly declined the industry is "booming".
>>81505623
My nigga, you understand how DC is kickstarting the fuck floppies revolution. It will take time but it's going to happen in our lifetime.
>>81505592
DC is too problematic to have nice things said about them
>>81505623
don't forget reducing total number of ongoings to like 38 or something
>>81505474
>floppy sales are tanking
Floppies in 2011 sold 4.57% more copies than 2010.
Floppies in 2012 sold 11.41% more copies than in 2011.
Floppies in 2013 sold 6.7% more copies than in 2012.
Floppies in 2014 sold 0.25% more copies than in 2013.
Floppies in 2015 sold 6.54% more copies than in 2014.
Can Big Two apologists PLEASE stop embarrassing themselves?
>>81505653
Never mind that Anon's claim was that sales are "shrinking".
Never mind that this is the OPPOSITE of "shrinking".
Never mind the facts, you never cared about them anyway.
>>81496948
Kind of hard to disagree with fact (although he's overselling Image's succes a bit there). Creator-owned is no garantee of quality but it certainly avoids the Big 2's editorial shenanigans.
Gotta say though I don't necessarily mind that corporate owned IPs exist and continue to exist through several cretive teams. It's pretty unique compared to a lot of written media and has sometimes (although of course far from always) been handled very well. The problems are when they're not handled well, and that they're the majority of the American market. Although with the success of the latest Astérix last year (devoid of its orginal creative team) basically saving the Franco-Belgian industry from one of its worst years ever, we Europoors aren't doing much better
Image catching up with the big two?
About as realistic as eastern europe and China catching up with the west!
>>81505730
I'm sorry but you're wrong.
>The more writers, the less consistency, the less entertaining, the less money, the less market share. Comics are not generating money for comic companies anymore. It's the 3rd party shares that are keeping Marvel and DC from going bankrupt.
>>81505730
seriously anon, the big jumps are directly correlated to gimmicks by Marvel, but the growth is steadily dropping. 2016 might still show growth, but expect actual negatives in 2017
notice how the growth rate drops by more every year outside of the start of Marvel's relaunch binge (which clearly didn't work since growth tanked big time), and the start of Marvel Star Wars
Why don't more companies take digital sales more into account?
>>81505809
Oh wow, MS Paint.
I apologize for trying to argue with MS Paint.
>>81505836
Because they were touted to be the great savior of sales and it apparently didn't turn out as such
>>81505836
Theories range from fiscal shenanigans to them being too embarrassing to report.
>>81505869
If its that bad how does CMX stay in business?
>>81505869
>them being too embarrassing to report.
I'm going to go with this one.
>>81505836
Comics? Because they want to push LCSs?
Who knows.
>>81496948
I will say that I find that my pull is leaning more towards third party books than Big Two each and every month...
>>81505833
Seriously Anon, do actual research instead of relying on your gut feelings.
>>81502432
>It's all about Spiderman Bazinga t-shirts
But Zimbabwe-man is a DC guy.
>>81496948
Plenty of hot air and optimism as Image titles go on limbo without any notice and for any length of time.
Case in point, Manifest Destiny is finally getting a new issue this month after the last one came out back in October.
The typical casual reader would have probably lost interest in the series at that point. If you go by digital alone, even Saga is hitting the low points for singles on comixology as rating amount is 1k on average but half of that for the last three issues alone.
I know people can trade wait but the writing is on the damn wall - They can publish small niche series because they have TWD and Saga to keep them safe while the other titles just fade away or if they get lucky, act as runner ups to the form mentioned titles.
>>81505916
We don't know, speculate away.
>>81505921
I personally think it has something to do with not paying creators more... who the fuck knows.
>>81503315
It's possible the editors do care and are just fucking idiots.
Hanlon's razor, anon.
I dunno. While it's true I've drastically cut down my pulls for DC and Marvel I haven't picked up any Image pulls.
>>81505847
I'm sorry, but the the graph is fairly accurate.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=18563
I'm sorry it upsets you but the industry has been in decline for years now, a momentary blip in sales doesn't change that fact.
Hey guys when will it be the big 4 ?
>>81505168
>Hey, Grandma! Ever heard of Marvel comics?
>Huh?
>How about DC comics?
>What are you talking about?
ftfy
>>81505950
>actual research
>can see growth shrinking by larger and larger margins outside of the two very easily explained jump years
does simple math not count anymore?
Growth shrunk by 5% from 2012 to 2013
Growth shrunk by 6% from 2013 to 2014
Growth saw a jump from 2014 to 2015, but far less than the jump from 2011 to 2012, and not even up to the levels of the falling growth from 2012 to 2013
you can literally SEE the growth shrinking with a basic understanding of statistics from year to year but you keep sticking your fingers in your ears and saying EVERYTHING IS FINEjust like Marvel
>>81506027
>September 2008
OH NOES!!!, how can the world of 2016 possibly live down the shame of 2008?
>>81506075
I'm only reading Strayer and Second Sight
>>81506024
My Marvel pull has crashed to nothing but Vision. I don't think Marvel has anything else to other me in the foreseeable future. DC on the other hand is dragging me back with what they have coming up. My current pull is about half Image, 5 DC books 1 marvel and one BoomKlaus has been great
>>81506117
>Not reading Dreaming Eagles.
I actually posted that as a joke but Aftershock is doing some good work
>>81506024
Same, I'm down to just 2 Marvel titles and nothing else.
Thinking about giving DC a try though, Image not so much.
>>81506147
My pull list is mostly image and valiant. I'll probably be adding DC to that during Rebirth. I've been reading comics for about a year now.
>>81506092
No, Anon, the claim was "the comic book business has been shrinking steadily", not "the rate of growth has been shrinking non-steadily".
If you could at least acknowledge how wrong you were then I could respect your brand new position. But if you claim to still be right while switching to an entirely new argument, then it just looks like you're grasping at straws.
I cannot take anything you say seriously, to be honest.
>>81506116
Like I said, the first graph is fairly accurate the second graph comes from comicbookresources reflecting that basic accuracy. The comic book industry has been in decline for years just like both those graphs show, I'm not sure what your argument is here.
>>81505000
Some of the less slave-driven titles at the Big Two don't have bizarrely short deadlines, though.
I know next to nothing about this kind of stuff but I see what people mean in that Image is growing but it will never be to the likes of the Big 2. I am sort of dropping out of comics at the moment with Marvel being a complete shitfest for awhile now and DC is really the only one I still pull from outside of random trades here and there from other publishers.
>>81506027
Not the guy you're arguing with but that graph you just posted shows a pretty steady growth for the 2003-2008 period where this one >>81505809 showed a big drop. Explain yourself.
>>81506257
Your 2003-2008 graph shows that the industry was declining IN THE PAST.
My 2010-2015 numbers shows that the industry is growing IN THE PRESENT.
So if you tell us that comics are shrinking right now, or that comics are tanking right now, then do you know what that makes you?
Dishonest.
I hope that you're ashamed of yourself.
>>81506092
I don't think you can talk about basic understanding of statistics if you make trend guesses based on 4 years of sales that all show growth and conclude "fuck, it's shrinking!"
>>81506341
The unit numbers are more detailed in the second graph which spans from 2003-2008. The first graph shows a basic approximation of those numbers over a much longer time span 1950-2010.
>>81506409
Like I said a mild swelling, nothing more. You can see the upward bounce you're describing at the end of the first graph I posted but that has no effect on the overall downward trajectory of comic book sales in general.
>>81506545
>Like I said a mild swelling, nothing more.
That sounds like backpedaling
>>81506545
Well, I guess some people really are shameless.
>>81506585
>>81506589
>comics used to sell in the millions regularly
>now they rarely break 100,000
>everything is fine
>>81506585
>backpedaling
>but that has no effect on the overall downward trajectory of comic book sales in general.
I know, reading is hard.
I wonder what western publishers like DC and the rest think of manga sales in Japan.
>>81506678
Think of it this way, it's just like the 90s. Except instead of Marvel being dragged along by X-Men sales, it's Star Wars sales. And DC are now double shipping
>>81506725
WHY CAN'T WE SELL THAT MUCH REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE at least I have my cereal
>>81506735
DC's shifting primary focus to the bookstore trade market
which is actually growing
>>81506545
>The unit numbers are more detailed in the second graph which spans from 2003-2008. The first graph shows a basic approximation of those numbers over a much longer time span 1950-2010.
Yeah, like I said, don't try to talk about stats. The part between 2003 and 2008 in the 1st graph indicates almost only a drop with only a growth peak around 2007-2008, which completely conflates with the linear part of the 2003-2008 graph, which shows a steady growth during that same period . 1st grap is obviously MS paint bs, where did you even get it?
>>81506678
That was never the argument, idiot.
Nobody is claiming that comics sell more in the 2010 than the 1960s, the growth is on a smaller time scale.
>>81506849
>comics still selling at market crash numbers and have been for 15 years
>everything is fine
>>81506876
>>everything is fine
Nobody but you said that you autist.
>>81506876
Sales aren't great, but they are getting better.
And it was only pointed out that sales are getting better after some dumb shit Anon (was it you?) made the false claim that sales are getting worse.
So sales aren't getting worse, and please quit trying to act like they are.
Someone sort through this and account for increasing costs of books and inflation http://www.comichron.com/yearlycomicssales.html
>>81506948
Ignore dollars. Focus on unit sales. Unit sales are increasing. Good news for everyone.
>>81500106
This. I left DC soon after the NuMetal52 started and bailed on Marvel after AvX. Ever since then it's been Image, Boom! and the occasional Dynamite for me, that is when I bother to read comics at all anymore...
>>81501861
Disney doesn't give a fuck about comic books.
>>81496948
I've been considering jumping to Image after Marvel's next relaunch so yeah probably.
>>81496948
>and crushing disappointment
HICKMAN BEAT
THE FUCK
OUT
>>81505381
to be fair, it's ending in June, the Mignola drawn version anyway
>>81498782
Monstress needed 3 printings to keep up with demand.
>>81499400
All the new Vertigo stuff is shit.
How can Image truly grow if they don't own anything? If TWD sells a million, they make same amount of money on it even if it sold 10,000. They literally get none of that TWD money(TV,merch,etc), that's the shittiest business decision ever.
They can't expand,hire more people,etc. A bigger publisher means more opportunities, advertising, having actual page rate or advances, Even low tier literally who book publishers give out advances.
>>81502072
>Disney buys Image
>everyone fucks off from Image
>take the money Disney threw at them and form Mirage Comics, and go back to business as usual
