What went wrong?
>>81142384
they had one idea of how to make animated movies and just did it for twenty years
Instead of the old model of one movie every couple of years they wanted 1-2 movies out each year. This means lowering of quality and sequels sequels sequels.
Disney
>>81142384
They used all of the ideas they had in that one lunch 20+ years ago and now all they can do is sequels.
>>81142384
Nothing really besides cars
Too many, "let's explore the secret world of <insert non-human concept or creature here>" movies.
They stopped forming their own ideas and started imitating the other companies. First Disney with Brave and then Dreamworks with the pointless sequels of past successes.
They were not good at either.
>P { X A R
what did they mean by this
Brave
Everything can be traced back to Brave
>>81142714
Hey they showed us the secret world of talking cars, talking car spies, talking planes, talking dogs, and talking dinosaurs.
The cancellation of Newt marked the decline. They still don't talk about it that much. Originals are less common since then and they keep betting on sequels.
Actual reason:
All the higher ups who made Pixar what it is today moved over to Disney 3D.
Pixar is where they stick all their new animators to learn. It doesn't matter how shit the movie comes out, because they are guaranteed butts in seats due to the Pixar Pedigree. People will go see it simply because it's Pixar.
That's why they shit out sequels and half baked projects like Brave. It's the B team now.
A team moved to D3D.
>>81142384
Well for starters, you began a thread with a dumb meme.
Nothing? Inside Out is probably their best film.
>>81142384
Cars
>>81143880
Wrong.
>>81143968
The Incredibles, WALL-E and Inside Out are the Pixar trinity in my book.
it's easier to revive an old IP than make a new IP
even though Inside Out and UP were profitable Brave, Wall-E, and now The Good Dinosaur have shown them that taking a risk on something new can lead to not so stellar results
Toy Story 3 and Monster University also show them that reviving a older IP is more profitable as to why we're getting Finding Dory, hey at least we're getting the Incredibles 2...
>>81144289
>Brave, Wall-E, and now The Good Dinosaur have shown them that taking a risk on something new can lead to not so stellar results
>WALL·E
>Box office: $521.3 million
>96% on RT
>Oscar for Best Animated Film winner
Is this a "not so stellar result"?
>>81143270
Nope, just John and Catmull. And even then, they're more like producers.
Docter, Stanton, Peterson, Bird are all still at Pixar.
People have this obsession with studios.
Directors are far more important. Pete Docter and Andrew Stanton made most of the good shit, and John Lassetter was behind almost every turd.
>>81143880
Inside out was good and a fine return to form but it was hardly their 'best film'. It's Pixar, you're asking a lot with that.
How about you tell us?
Christ, you've made this thread countless times. Fuck off.
>>81142384
>What went wrong?
1: Disney being greedy Kikes
2: pushing out movies every year to meet profit forecasts (see: 1)
3: too many fucking sequels (see: 2)
>>81145546
im still upset there's a Toy Story 4.
That shit wasnt fucking needed. 3 was just fine as an end point. Andy grew up with his audience, and gave the toys to a little girl where the cycle repeats. what can you really do with a sequel?
making shorts every now and then like theyve been doing was good enough
What was Pete Docter's magnum opus?
Monsters, Inc.,Howl's Moving Castle: International (Yeah, I know it's not Pixar and it's actually Miyazaki, but Pete Docter directed the English dub),Up or Inside Out.
For me: Inside Out >Howl's Moving Castle: International> Up > Monsters, Inc.
>>81146435
MI is only at around the 50th percentile mark for best Pixar movies in my book, but it's still well above the mark of mediocre.
That said, Pete is the only guy at Pixar who I have 100% confidence in at this point.
The next Pixar movie I have much hope of liking is Incredible 2, which is still 3 years out.
>>81145546
>Incredibles 2
come on man, so many people actually want an Incredibles sequel even tho it's gonna come out like 3 years holy fuck
>Finding Dory
again, Finding Nemo didn't immediately need a sequel, but it's nice to see more of the characters and all around atmosphere return again
>Toy Story 4
TS3 ended perfectly, fuck they gonna do with a fourth one???
>Cars 3
no.
>>81145546
>>81146833
>Cars 3
>Release date: next June
>Director: TBA
>Story by: TBA
>Producer: TBA
holy fuck it's gonna be awful, isn't it?
Wat?
Inside Out is top tier.
And I mean Top tier movie period, not just pixar.
>>81147085
>Cars 3
That's all you need to know it'll be awful.
>>81147203
I never actually saw 2, nor Planes, so I can only make assumptions.didn't actually think 1 was all that bad
>>81142518
Holy shit Pixar has now become Dreamworks
>>81147275
The first Cars was fine. It was when they started milking it to death with sequels and spin-offs is when it went to shit
>>81147275
Cars 1 was great by far one of my fave animated movies on my list, Cars 2 wasn't all too bad but it should have never been made, you feel me?
>>81142833
The only thing people know about Newt is that it was essentially going to have a similar plot to Rango so they scrapped it.
>>81147275
1 was decent.
2 just took a massive shit that brought down Cars 1 with it.
>>81147336
Cars merchandise made Disney billions of dollars. Why wouldn't they milk it?
>>81147348
I think you mean Rio. However, that never stopped Pixar before. Antz didn't derail A Bug's Life. Etcetera, etcetera.
Inside Out was great and I have high hopes for Finding Dory.
>>81143880
>>81143968
>>81144144
Though others like it, i feel like im one of the few who would put this right at the top of the whole heap. I've yet to see another pixar movie that worked as well for me as Up.
>>81147462
>>81147336
Even TOY Story wasn't as toyetic as Cars. Explain this anomaly.
>>81147307
They have always been.
Jeffrey Katzenberg was the former Studio Chairman of Disney in the late 80s and early 90s, playing a part in the Disney Renaissance. However, squabbles with Michael Eisner after the death of Frank Wells led to his forced resignation, and he would form DreamWorks in 1994.
On Toy Story he was responsible for the more mature tone on it what displeased some people. That's why Dreamworks is full of more mature themes and jokes than Pixar.
>>81147275
1 wasn't bad.
It wasn't tremendously good, but it wasn't bad.
>>81148218
>On Toy Story he was responsible for the more mature tone on it what displeased some people.
The 'mature tone' never made it to the final film, in fact it very nearly got the whole movie cancelled when the other executives saw what Katzenberg forced the animators to do with the story. They had to beg for another two weeks to return it to their original vision and get the movie greenlit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOxJpGI8SWc
>>81149533
Yes, lots of changes by Katz made it.
The original treatment for Toy Story, drafted by Lasseter, Andrew Stanton, and Pete Docter, had little in common with the eventual finished film. It paired Tinny, the one-man band from Tin Toy with a ventriloquist's dummy and sent them on a sprawling odyssey. Under studio head Jeffrey Katzenberg, Woody was the main villain, abusing the others toys until they rallied against him; however after Disney executive saw the storyboards they relinquished creative control to Pixar.[27] The core idea of Toy Story was present from the treatment onward, however: that "toys deeply want children to play with them, and that this desire drives their hopes, fears, and actions." Katzenberg felt the original treatment was problematic and told Lasseter to reshape Toy Story as more of an odd-couple buddy picture, and suggested they watch some classic buddy movies, such as The Defiant Ones and 48 Hrs., in which two characters with different attitudes are thrown together and have to bond.[28][29] Lasseter, Stanton, and Docter emerged in early September 1991 with the second treatment, and although the lead characters were still Tinny and the dummy, the outline of the final film was beginning to take shape.
>>81149906
The script went through many changes before the final version. Lasseter decided Tinny was "too antiquated", and the character was changed to a military action figure, and then given a space theme. Tinny's name changed to Lunar Larry, then Tempus from Morph, and eventually Buzz Lightyear (after astronaut Buzz Aldrin). Lightyear's design was modeled on the suits worn by Apollo astronauts as well as G.I. Joe action figures. In addition, the green and purple color scheme on Lightyear's suit was inspired by Lasseter and his wife, Nancy, whose favorite colors were green and purple respectively. Woody, the second character, was inspired by a Casper the Friendly Ghost doll that Lasseter had when he was a child. Originally, Woody was a ventriloquist's dummy with a pull-string (hence the name Woody). However, character designer Bud Luckey suggested that Woody could be changed to a cowboy ventriloquist dummy. John Lasseter liked the contrast between the Western and the science fiction genres and the character immediately changed. Eventually all the ventriloquist dummy aspects of the character were deleted, because the dummy was designed to look "sneaky and mean." However they kept the name Woody to pay homage to the Western actor Woody Strode. The story department drew inspiration from films such as Midnight Run and The Odd Couple, and Lasseter screened Hayao Miyazaki's Castle in the Sky (1986) for further influence.
>>81149934
Production shutdown
Every couple of weeks, Lasseter and his team would put together their latest set of storyboards or footage to show Disney. In early screen tests, Pixar impressed Disney with the technical innovation but convincing Disney of the plot was more difficult. At each presentation by Pixar, Katzenberg would tear much of it up, giving out detailed comments and notes. Katzenberg's big push was to add more edginess to the two main characters. Disney wanted the film to appeal to both children and adults, and asked for adult references to be added to the film.[38] After many rounds of notes from Katzenberg and other Disney execs, the general consensus was that Woody had been stripped of almost all charm. Tom Hanks, while recording the dialogue for the story reels, exclaimed at one point that the character was a jerk. Lasseter and his Pixar team had the first half of the movie ready to screen, so they brought it down to Burbank to show to Katzenberg and other Disney executives on November 19, 1993, an event they later dubbed "The Black Friday Incident." The results were disastrous, and Schneider, who was never particularly enamored of Katzenberg's idea of having outsiders make animation for Disney, declared it a mess and ordered that production be stopped immediately. Katzenberg asked colleague Thomas Schumacher why the reels were bad. Schumacher replied bluntly: "Because it's not their movie anymore, it's completely not the movie that John set out to make."
>>81149985
Lasseter was embarrassed with what was on the screen, later recalling, "It was a story filled with the most unhappy, mean characters that I've ever seen." He asked Disney for the chance to retreat back to Pixar and rework the script in two weeks, and Katzenberg was supportive. Lasseter, Stanton, Docter and Ranft delivered the news of the production shutdown to the production crew, many of whom had left other jobs to work on the project. In the meantime, the crew would shift to television commercials while the head writers worked out a new script. Although Lasseter kept morale high by remaining outwardly buoyant, the production shutdown was "a very scary time," recalled story department manager BZ Petroff. Schneider had initially wanted to shutdown production altogether and fire all recently hired animators. Katzenberg put the film under the wing of Walt Disney Feature Animation. The Pixar team was pleased that the move would give them an open door to counsel from Disney's animation veterans. Schneider, however, continued to take a dim view of the project and would later go over Katzenberg's head to urge Eisner to cancel it. Stanton retreated into a small, dark windowless office, emerging periodically with new script pages. He and the other story artists would then draw the shots on storyboards. Whedon came back to Pixar for part of the shutdown to help with revising, and the script was revised in two weeks as promised. When Katzenberg and Schneider halted production on Toy Story, Steve Jobs kept the work going with his own personal funding. Jobs did not insert himself much into the creative process, respecting the artists at Pixar and instead managing the relationship with Disney.
>>81150082
The Pixar team came back with a new script three months later, with the character of Woody morphed from being a tyrannical boss of Andy's other toys to being their wise and caring leader. It also included a more adult-oriented staff meeting amongst the toys rather than a juvenile group discussion that had existed in earlier drafts. Buzz Lightyear's character was also changed slightly "to make it more clear to the audience that he really doesn't realize he's a toy." Katzenberg and Schneider approved the new approach, and by February 1994 the film was back in production. The voice actors returned in March 1994 to record their new lines. When production was greenlit, the crew quickly grew from its original size of 24 to 110, including 27 animators, 22 technical directors, and 61 other artists and engineers. In comparison, The Lion King, released in 1994, required a budget of $45 million and a staff of 800. In the early budgeting process, Jobs was eager to produce the film as efficiently as possible, impressing Katzenberg with his focus on cost-cutting. Despite this, the $17 million production budget was proving inadequate, especially given the major revision that was necessary after Katzenberg had pushed them to make Woody too edgy. Jobs demanded more funds to complete the film right, and insisted that Disney was liable for the cost overruns. Katzenberg was not willing, and Ed Catmull, described as "more diplomatic than Jobs," was able to reach a compromise.
>>81147495
but antz and bug's life were the same concept worked into a film by two different companies, Katzenberg worked on the pixar side in development and took the idea with him when he left and put it into development with his new company, so it's a little more unique than pixar putting out a seeming carbon copy of Rio months or years after Rio comes out even if they were likely developed from completely different ideas.
>>81145546
>Four upcoming sequels
>The one we actually need is the one we must wait the longest for
I never understand why people like The Incredibles, i find it boring
>>81142759
I want to wrap my hands around your throat and squeeze my thumbs into your windpipe, closing off your only avenue of oxygen. And as you black out just before death, I will lean next to your ear and whisper, "That's what I meant by this." You will take those words to Hell with you. Fuck you and everything you believe in. Fuck you so goddamn hard. I hope you have a stroke before I can find you and kill you.
>>81152579
I'm getting aroused thinking about it
Pixar is vanilla these days but Zootopia was real good
>>81142384
No King rules forever, my son.
Mark my words, Finding Dory is gonna be really obnoxious. Dory was a perfect side kick. On her own, her character is going to grate on nerves real fast. She's basically functionally retarded and you're gonna be stuck with that for 90 minutes.
>>81152579
What did you mean by this?.
>>81142384
They replaced original warm light bulb with fluorescent one.
What Pixar really needs is a new generation, a new group of young creative minds to plan masterpieces like Pixar's own founders, successors on par to it's predecessors. Unfortunately that's probably never going to happen.
>>81142384
Working for Disney
>>81147803
Second half was a snoozefest
>>81147803
It's a great film and probably one of Pixar's best, but sadly, as with most popular films, it has a meme attached to it.
>>81143968
Why aren't animation studios doing more action oriented movies?
It's always that emotional world building bullshit
>>81154575
>Why aren't animation studios doing more action oriented movies?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>>81147803
Despite what people say, Wall-E will always be my favorite. The human love story wasn't necessary but hey, no movie is perfect.
>>81154575
There are many. But you refuse to turn your head and look at different sources.
>tfw I am one of the few people who think Wall-E would have been better if it didn't have the human part
>>81155933
But I don't want to watch fucking weeb shit, faggot
>>81157583
Them don't complain about only seeing fags if you refuses to stop looking at the gay bar.
>>81157676
fuck off back to /a/
>>81157713
Dude, all competent animators watch quality animation independently of the origin. Pixar watches anime. In fact many movie directors watch anime and use things they took from there in their movies. You can't be an animator and ignore half of the animation in the world.
I think Pixar became too dependant on the emotional aspects of their stories, and that became grating to the audience. Sure it was revolutionary by the time we saw Toy Story to actually cry at an animated movie (unless you're 5 years old that is) but by the time The Good Dinosaur hit theaters we had enough of it. They need a new hook.
>>81157942
that's completely irrelevant to my first question, why western animation isn't more diverse
but whatever makes you feel less off a weeb
>>81153192
Today's fresh gen is filled with indoctrinated SJW bullshit. Good luck with that.
>>81157942
To complete that, Pixar staff are huge fans of Ghibli, they play Ghibli movies to help bring them inspirations and Hayao Miyazaki himself went to the studio during the production of The Incredibles you guys like so much. And Brad Bird asked him his opinion.
There is animation, only idiots limit themselves by the place it was made.
>>81158090
You still keep looking at the same direction. Western animation is bigger than the stuff you are watching.
>>81158173
examples??
>>81158200
Look for something that fancy you
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animated_feature_films_of_the_2010s
There are all sort of animated movies. A lot are from Japan although China is also entering the game. Even if you are limiting yourself just to North America and Europe you still get some variety once you start looking at stuff that isn't Pixar/Disney/Deamworks
>>81158528
really? that's your response? fucking wikipedia?
>>81158607
They have a huge list of movies from each year and I don't have a crystal ball to guess what other retarded arbitrary requisites you have besides the place of origin and original language so go scan the list yourself and see what fancies you.
or stay there complaining that Disney only makes Disney cartoons. seems like this is what you want.
>>81150689
this scene alone put every movies action sequence to shame
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5v2qBBD-gE
>>81157061
I agree with you, anon.
There aren't enough robot-centric movies
>>81158825
nah still no KFP2 fight
>>81158851
pretty much, and I feel the lesson in Wall E is so plastered
>>81158962
>KFP2 fight
which one, I barely remember some memorable combat action sequence from that one compare to the first one, except the zenball scene
>>81159039
what, seriously?
>Any fight involving Shen because of that beautiful flowing movement of his body and tailfeathers
>that tower escape
>that MUSOU-esque fight at the boats
>how they stopped the bomb
>>81159039
>>81159082
The Amazing World of Gumball chase scene from "the Remote" have a special place in my heart. The way they made a kung-fu like action scene for comedy was just perfect. But that's not a movie.
Generally I put the three KFP films in a high pedestal as far as animation goes because there's not a single western animation that does martial arts so beautiful and full of fluidity. At most you just get the usual comic book fight when cartoon action is shown.
Closest is Avatar series, but only few times they actually had contact.
>>81159082
>Any fight involving Shen because of that beautiful flowing movement of his body and tailfeathers
oh yeah, Shen's fight choreography definitely stands out
>that tower escape
it's just decent
>that MUSOU-esque fight at the boats
nothing special, just usual one-to-one combat. Po barely pull a choreography
>how they stopped the bomb
too many things going on at once, barely see what happen on the boat
nothing on KP2 put me edge on the seat just like The Incredibles. Heck, even KP1 has much better action sequence than the sequel
>the bridge fight
>tai lung prison break
>shifu vs tai lung
>>81159360
>just decent
>literally pulling coordinated gymnastics while having a breathtaking view
>MUSOU-esque fight
>one-to-one
>how they stopped the bomb
>so many things going at once/at the boat when in fact it's a factory
You sure you don't need a rewatch
also disagree, Incredibles had generic action scenes
Pixar is really trying hard to cash in on nostalgia.
Finding Dory? You fucking serious? I'm 20, so are most of my friends. We saw the movie when we were children and we're the target demographic for this film. Everyone I talk to about it said they have no interest in seeing it.
>>81159416
maybe I missed what you're trying to interpreted, but hear me on this. What makes The Incredibles's action so special to me is because every characters have their own specialty in terms of superpower and they managed to stand out in some sequences
>Dash running through the the forest showed how fast he is
>violet's transparent ability used to escape bad guys and force-field ability (that combo with Dash though)
>Mrs. Incredible's stretching ability when sneaking to the quarters
>Mr. Incredible's sense of strength when fighting the omnidroid
Kung Fu Panda actually show the variety of the choreography on each of the characters, but I didn't sense the uniqueness from it, especially from Furious Five. Is there any stand-out point between them other than just different animal doing kung fu combat? and how could you say the action in Incredibles are generic, I want to hear your opinion
>>81160200
because like I said, animated films don't do martial arts and close combat in general well; the most they do is your generic superhero fight fight brawl
hell, I'm even surprised they managed to pull the spiritual battle, something relatively untouched in western media
what you mentioned in TI is par for the course on your average superhero stunt is all I'm saying (and I'd argue others have done it better, like DCAU Flash did Dash's shtick way better, and it has pet peeve of mine that is "invisibility makes you intangible regardless of your agility")
and you know what, you just made me appreciate MegaMind much more, you rarely see a hero archetype and powerset of that of MegaMind in films so it was a delight to see smal-robot-esque minions forming shape and shrink guns being used a lot
My favorite Pixar is still Ratatouille, it just has a comfy mood and setting to it. But I stopped watching Pixar after Up and Toy Story 3. I get that they're going for feels, that's what a movie's supposed to do, but around that point it seemed like they were going for them so hard that it took me out of it and I was thinking, "Okay, this here is the part calculated to make the audience really sad."
Or maybe that's a side note and they lost me with Russell, who went around being a really annoying kid throughout the whole movie. I wasn't a kid at the time, I was 28, so maybe children found him more relatable.
>>81160551
this is what I feel about Up
the first few minutes were good but as soon as they introduced Russel my feelings for the movie slowly dropped
>>81144769
500 Mill is not.
>>81154575
w-wakfu?
I haven't watched The Good Dinosaur, but I'm hearing lots of bad things about it. Pretty sad.
Though, when it comes to Inside Out, at least around the people I talk to, was not a hit at all. I loved it, and I loved WALL-E, but no one else around me did.
Are the movies based around potentially renovating a Disney ride usually better than their other movies now? Does Disney just put better writers and/or more on those projects or what?
Inside Out:Wonders of Life
Cars:Autopia, Tomorrowland Speedway, and Test Track
Nemo:The Living Seas and Submarine Voyage
Ratatouille:Disneyland Paris rides
The last good one besides Toy Story sequels was Wall-E . Although maybe The Good Dinosaur was made for renovating DinoLand U.S.A, but was apparently not too good of a movie.
>>81161942
>Cars:Autopia, Tomorrowland Speedway, and Test Track
Cars got its own land, not an overlay
>>81162005
That's because it was so popular and they needed something for California Adventure.
>>81161202
Inside Out is great, easily among their best, on par with The Incredibles and WALL-E. But it does emanate that vibe of wanting to cut across demographics, ending up being at times too superficial for adults and too heavy for children.
>>81160595
Wall-e had a budget of 180 mil, 520 mil is close enough to 3x its budget to call that a proftiable movie. Its just wasn't profitable enough to lead to a sequel.
>>81161202
The Good Dinosaur isn't bad. It's just kinda dull, but the animation is great.
