Its probably too deep for all those reviewers. They just don't "get" the movie.
http://www.cosmicbooknews.com/content/wb-worried-about-batman-vs-superman-because-popcorn-marvel-movies
>They’re more concerned about how the audience will respond to it, and how it will perform at the box office. BOF speculates that the mainstream audience is used to the “popcorn” movies that Marvel produces, and won’t respond well to Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice’s deep story that was written by an Oscar winner.
Oh no the movie they have been pimping for ten years is actually bad and now they're trying to swear it has hidden depth and will become a cult classic. Who could have foreseen this surprising turn of events.
I'm gonna go see Zootopia again.
We already have a thread for this bullshit. Shitpost there.
I really like this concept that capeshit movies are deeper than the type of experimental Kaufman shit they regularly digest.
>>81015288
>They’re more concerned about how the audience will respond to it, and how it will perform at the box office. BOF speculates that the mainstream audience is used to the “popcorn” movies that Marvel produces, and won’t respond well to Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice’s deep story that was written by an Oscar winner.
Seriously though between the coffee Mug Zach Snyder had that said I told you so, and the comments by WB I'm beginning to think that the reason their movies get rated so low isn't because they're really so awful but no one wants to give credit to these arrogant blowhards.
>>81015501
>their movies get rated so low isn't because they're really so awful but no one wants to give credit to these arrogant blowhards.
...or they're just shit movies filled with dumb psuedo-philosphy in an attempt to come off smarter than they are, and a with a focus on special effect. The visuals aren't much better than Bayformers.
>>81015288
>Its probably too deep for all those reviewers
Have you seen a Snyder film?
>>81015634
The joke is that WB/Snyder was saying that audiences wouldn't get the movie. That all they care about is big dumb action movies and BvS had a really intricate, developed story.
>Dawn of Justice’s deep story that was written by an Oscar winner.
and so was cod: ghosts
>>81015724
Explain this for those of us who don't play Call of Duty.
>>81015288
Because why should entertainment be entertaining?
>>81015732
Its got a fucking terrible story. Doesn't take a genius to figure that one out.
>>81015724
so was NBA2K16
>>81015756
Okay, I'll take your word for it.
>>81015732
Let's just say it's not COD: Modern Warfare.
>>81015288
Name one fucking movie in the history of all fucking movies ever made with "VERSUS, V, or VS." in the title that have been deep or meaningful.
I came to watch a shitty CGI nerd fight and I got one
>>81015756
That's just call of duty though.
It's like expecting next year's NFL game to have a story. It's just a rerun of a series these days.
>Comicbook movie for literal children
>Too deep for critics
>>81015797
Asterix & Obelix vs Ceaser
>>81015732
It's probably the most poorly-written story CoD has ever farted out.
>most of the dialogue is hackneyed "I love you bro/dad/son!" family bonding garbage straight out of a Fast/Furious movie
>villains are a vague coalition of scary brown people that are never even defined, they may as well be COBRA for how much they try and develop them
>main villain is a le epic Gary Stu "badass" who is so poorly characterized in-game that the collectable audio logs are his backstory because they couldn't bother to fit it organically into the narrative
>deathly serious Black Hawk Down tone for a story that never supports that weight
I'm not going to sit here and pretend that CoD is known for amazing narrative or anything, but for me at least they usually work as fun-dumb 6 hour long summer blockbusters. Ghosts is an utter failure on every level, and even more embarrassing considering it was sandwiched between two games that did the CoD single player pretty well(Black Ops 2 and Advanced Warfare)
>>81015858
You know, the best way to get mediocre work out of someone is to let them think their hot shit and everything they produce is gold.
>>81015288
Fuck them, I don't watch super hero movies to see pseudo philosophy rant, and 2deep4u accents. I just want to see fucking mindless action movie.
>>81015910
You're killing the medium.
>>81015885
like all those critics?
>>81015940
Name them.
>>81015858
>confirmed for never having watched a Fast And Furious movie
Not saying CoD-Ghosts is any good, but the comparison is retarded. Given whom it's from, not really surprising.
>>81015288
I think the problem is that the reviewers don't like the dark and somber tone. The question is what do general audiences want.
> Zack " The Hack " Snyder
>>81015976
It was just a point of comparison to something else that also drones on endlessly about family.
Except the Fast/Furious movies aren't meant to be taken seriously.
>>81015995
I just wanted to see Batman fight Superman.
>>81015765
Spike won an oscar?
>>81016088
Yep, 2015.
>>81015765
>the scumbag character is named Vic Van Liar
Spike is amazing.
Stop taking the obvious b8 threads!
>>81015858
>>villains are a vague coalition of scary brown people that are never even defined, they may as well be COBRA for how much they try and develop them
They do explain it, but the explanation is fucking stupid.
ALL countries in South America join together to form a huge fascist dictatorship that decides to commit genocide against everyone from the United States and declare war for no reason.
It's jingoistic propaganda about those scary mexicans.
>>81015936
No, I don't. If I would wanted to watch serious, challenging movie then i would choose shawshank, flew over cuckoo nest, 12 angry men, even fucking green line, not a fucking fairy tale for adults . i want to turn off my brain and flow with the river
>>81016122
See this is one of the reasons I like sandbox games over FPS's, you're not killing someone because of where they're from, your just fucking killing people. Who gives a fuck if he's from Brazil or Chicago?
>>81015501
Ever met one of those people who use big words for the sake of using big words and likes to quote wiki articles about scientific theory/philosopy in a vague attempt to seem deep?
Thats the DC movie writers.
You ever see American Dad where Steve pops the "Quantum Rape" joke on John Stewart and insists its just to deep for him? Thats who these people are.
>>81015858
sounds like /pol/ wet dream.
That trailer shot where batman is on a chimney, shoots a grapple and evades laser, was that superman or doomsday shooting at him?
>>81016122
They're explained, but never defined. ATLAS was a PMC run by Lex Luthor and even they still had better characterization then the villains in Ghosts.
And for some reason the main villain is still an evil white guy with a stupid bandanna on the entire time, because we still need a white American as the face of the antagonists. At least Black Ops 2 had the main villain be the same ethnicity as the grunts, and actually gave him characterization outside of fucking audio logs.
>>81015885
>let them think their hot shit and everything they produce is gold
So let them think they're Neil Breen?
>>81015910
So you're the faggot who keeps giving Michael Bay money.
>>81015976
Are you implying Fast and Furious has good dialogue? If so, you're one of the following:
>deaf
>a mouth breathing moron
>utterly delusional
>using some shit bait
Take your pick.
>>81015995
>I think the problem is that the reviewers don't like the dark and somber tone.
None of them are even bringing that up, dumbass.
Most of the complaints focus on the fact that the story is a hack job and the movie is a big dumb CGI fest, not unlike a Michael Bay movie.
>>81016158
>I like sandbox games over FPS's
Those terms describe completely different things, idiot.
"sandbox" is a reference to the way the story is presented. "FPS" is the perspective.
You can have a FPS that is a sandbox. There are a number of popular ones.
>>81015288
>Written by Oscar winner.
Terrio was hire to rewrite SOME part of the script. Overall, it's still Hack Snyder and David Kek Goyer script. Nothing is deep about this movie, it's all about try hard dark and gritty with no depth and heart of the story.
If you wanna see Terrio script that's JL part1 and with the mess which is called BvS, JL will be delay and they will hire some other guy to rewrite Terrio's script because they won't trust him anymore.
DCEU need someone with vision and skill to look after it not this Hack Snyder and his wife, fuck this shit.
>>81016420
No. Terrio wrote the entire script from a story by Goyer and Snyder.
It's on him.
>>81016500
Then even more reason for WB to kick him out of the train along with Snyder, holy shit.
Why is Warner trying to make its superheros dark and realistic anyway?
Are they ashamed of them? Don't they understand them?
>>81016537
This is well documented.
Green Lantern failed, the suits decided the only reason was because 'fun' super hero flicks just plain don't work.
>>81016150
So you are basically agreeing that your taste in action movies is shit? Serious adults only watch quality drama kino, amirite?
>>81016555
If they had chosen John, someone the public recognized, and not made their hapless undeserving of punishment villain Hector hammond more likeable than Hal, maybe it would have worked.
>>81016537
WB execs just don't really know or apreciate the characters
>>81016537
>Fox's X-Men were darker and more realistic than the comics, and made shitloads of money
>Nolan trilogy was darker and more realistic than the comics, and made shitloads of money, but people mocked the third one for being too silly.
>clearly we have to go even more dark and realistic, and then we'll make like ten times as much money
>>81016580
John has nothing to do with Hammond.
>>81016590
>more realistic
I don't think you know what those words mean.
>>81016613
their words, not mine
>>81016590
Meanwhile the Marvel Movies are making money hand over fist and they are for the most part lighthearted as fuck.
>>81016592
And Scarlet Witch has nothing to do with Civil War, but she's in that movie and on the posters. It's an adaptation, you can change things.
>>81015288
>deep
>the fucking heavy handed symbolism from the trailer that slaps you in the face again and again to the extent that the actual superhero content is less obvious than the GOD VS MAN theme
Ok yes I'm sure this is the next 2001: a Space Odyssey
>>81015288
>All those marvel money
>>81015288
Ironically, Wonder Woman is the least of the worry in the movie, she is actually did alright.
>>81016651
Yeah, I don't get it. WB is trying to play catch-up to Marvel, but seem intent on doing things as differently to them as possible.
When you have a movie called "Batman v. Superman," the normal populace is expecting a fun romp, like Freddy vs. Jason or Alien vs. Predator
They don't want to see boring shit
>this will still make money
>WB will still hire "Hacky" Zack Snyder to do the JL flick
>/co/ will still get hyped for it and be surprised when it turns out to be a shitheap just like every Snyder production
Why don't you ever learn?
DC Blew their load too early here. Batman V Superman should be a grand finale of any DC Movie universe. Not the opening act.
>>81016688
Heh
>This film is too deep for you, you wouldn't understand it
>Oh what's it called?
>Sharkboy vs Lavagirl: Dawn of Justice
>>81016537
>Are they ashamed of them? Don't they understand them?
Nether of these god damn things are required to want mature serious takes on characters we love and hold dear.
Did Frank Miller not understand Batman when he wrote The Dark Knight Returns?
Was Burton ashamed of Batman just because he did not retread the same tone and style as Adam West?
There is NOTHING about Batman or Superman conceptually that requires misunderstanding to choose the path of contextually making them and their worlds more believable with weight and consequence.
>>81016537
WB Execs still think that Death of Superman is the be all end all of Superman. They've been trying to get it on screen for 20 years.
>>81016308
>None of them are even bringing that up, dumbass.
I have seen over 5 reviews citing "joylessness" or "lack of fun" in the title banner of the fucking review dumbass!
>>81016912
How is ANYTHING about the post your responding to reddit-ish?
pls come back nolan ;_;
>>81016938
THE HAIRLINE RISES
>>81016840
>Dont listen to critics, just spend your money and make your own opinion goy
>>81016854
>I have seen over 5 reviews citing "joylessness" or "lack of fun" in the title banner of the fucking review dumbass!
God forbid people expect a superhero film to have a certain level of escapist fun and empowerment.
>>81016796
>Was Burton ashamed of Batman just because he did not retread the same tone and style as Adam West?
Whether he was ashamed of anything or not, he admits to never have read a Batman comic. So there's that.
>>81016987
Cinema shouldn't be about escapism. It should be reflecting how the world really is. And humanity doesn't deserve heroes.
>>81016987
At the end of the day, people just want to kick back and relax and turn their brain off
Making deep superhero stuff only works for the page
>>81016964
What the fuck are you talking about
>>81016987
It would be hilarious if Deadpool actually ended up making more money than BVS.
>>81016987
Booster Gold for President and Blue Beetle for VP, the'll make America Great Again!
>>81016854
I think the point of the way she's phrased that review is dramatic effect. She's saying the film has a lot of scale etc, but in reality all that is delivered in the wrong way and it fails to hit the mark.
The point of the film is to be fun, otherwise it wouldn't have those grand action scenes. No one sees an action scene and thinks 'gee this is some good symbolism' unless it's some masterpiece directed by Stanley Kubrick or something
>>81017010
Indie flicks. This is capeshit.
>>81017069Wofür steht das S auf seiner Brust?
>>81017069
>/tv/ memes
I expected better of you Hayato
>>81017010
You're getting cinema and mirrors mixed up. Easy mistake
>>81017071
>>81017100
The world is a dark and miserable place. And it is the responsibility of all art to reflect that. Idealism is for children.
>>81017115
>Cape Films
>Art
Pick one
>>81015288
How is it even possible to get such terrible reviews when doing a huge blockbuster superhero movie? It's not like any of the other superhero movies that are getting good reviews are masterpieces of cinema or anything. Is BvS really that bad?
>>81016987
>God forbid people expect a superhero film to have a certain level of escapist fun and empowerment.
This would be a valid argument back in the 80s when Superman was the only character getting adapted, Today we have so many super hero films diversity of tone should not only be welcome it is necessary.
You can't hold something against a film when that something was never ever the intent of the creators.
Its like calling a knife a failure because it does not hold liquid like a spoon.
According to several reviews, Batman uses guns to deadly effect in Batman v Superman.
I shall be posting them alongside this image
>>81017068
>The point of the film is to be fun
Or its meant to be epic, mythic and awe inspiring.
>>81017137
>>81017115
This isn't fucking Beasts of No Nation. It's fucking tights wearing caped crusaders.
>>81017129
But in this case it's a blunt knife that can't cut it.
>>81017125
No its because people want mindless silly fun, hence why Transformers sales like hot cakes, This set out to be powerful and real not fun.
>>81017137
Didn't Batman use a rifle in Dark Knight Returns?
So, who else is interested in how fat Kev Smith is gonna try to defend this?
>>81017155
>Movie Blob
>>81017150
When your main trailer ends with the cliche "I thought she was with you", yea, people are gonna expect a few fucking jokes
>>81015936
Taking something as childish and cheesy as superheros and trying to make them deep and grimdark is whats killing them.
They should be fun.
And for children.
Do adults even realize that they've all but ripped superheros from kids? Created a genre that they're unable to enjoy or even view if the rating is too mature?
It's disgusting and I hate it. Certain superheros weren't created with children in mind, but Batman and Superman were and it really should have stayed that way.
Adults can enjoy media made with kids in mind, like disney movies. I imagine the medium would improve when they moved beyond thinking attempts and deep edgyness made a movie good.
>>81017172
That's stupid. The Nolan Batman movies were grim as fuck and got stellar reviews.
>>81017137
Ironic considering your image is from the same comic the BVS guns scene is adapted from.
>>81017155
>>81017157
It doesn't matter what it is. All cinema and art should reflect and reinforce that the world is cruel and that humanity will be extinct within 100 years.
>>81016646
You typed it, though. Don't try to brush this off.
>>81017177
yes
>>81017182
He'll say that there was an episode of Brave and the Bold that said all incarnations of Batman are in some way valid. Then he'll avoid talking about it till it's out of theaters, and some months down the line when theres a directors cut he'll casually bring it up on Fatman on Batman and say that he really enjoyed the film and pretend it didn't get a bunch of negative press.
>>81017186
>When your main trailer ends with the cliche "I thought she was with you", yea, people are gonna expect a few fucking jokes
That line was almost universally hated by trailer viewers.
That was put on ONLY to cater to fun babies.
>>81017205
Whoa bro watch where you're thowing all that edge.
>>81017115
people don't watch cape films for that, though
Besides, they can just watch Watchmen if they do, and they'd have about 28% more fun watching it
This movie may suck, but at least it's trying to be different from the grades school shit Marvel is pumping out with their movies.
>>81016714
Because MoS and Watchmen are both great so there's nothing to learn
>>81017192
Who gives a fuck about kids? also why can't something grim and edgy be fun? I get more enjoyment from a biography or drama than i do an action or brightly coloured comedy. So not everyones fun is the same, stop usuing it as a buzzword.
>>81017193
Yes and they were made before the "fun" Superheroes became the definition of the genre. TDK the peak of the series came out the same year as the first Iron Man.
And some people will never ever accept a serious Superman.
>>81017192
Superman works best when done with kids in mind. He's a bright, colorful character who wears his underpants on the outside. Batman however has evolved from the Adam West days into something that has been proven to work best in a dark, gritty noir setting. Even the animated series was fairly dark for a children cartoon. A light hearted live action Batman will enver work and will never be a commercial success.
>>81017232
>look at any scene in the recent DC movies
>can't tell from which movie it is
at least the marvel movies are differentiated by the differently colored gem everyone is chasing.
DC is just grey and sad.
No one is complaining that the movie isn't "fun" or that it's "too serious". It's just the same as every Snyder movie, all style no substance.
We are talking plot, tone, CGI quality, connection to the audience. Doesn't matter if you're making a grimdark adaptation or a semi-comedy. If these things don't cut it, your movie is shit. And THAT is the case with BvS. Not the fact that Batman pops some nigs.
>>81017177
Yeah, but not to kill. He used it to stop Two-Faces robbery not to stop Two-Face's heart.
>>81017193
Even Nolan's Batman had some fun in it.
>>81017232
>This movie may suck, but at least it's trying to be different from the grades school shit Marvel is pumping out with their movies.
THIS, and I agree with this as someone who likes all the Marvel films, diversity of tone and style is a MUST.
>>81017232
Zootopia is more profound than anything I've seen from a superhero movie in the last 10 years.
Making something dark and edgy doesn't make it good. Honestly it's more childish because its so pretentious and stupid.
>>81015797
>with "VERSUS, V, or VS."
V for Vendetta
>>81017237
Excuse me if my Watchmen knowledge isn't up to snuff, buy didn't the movie completely miss the point?
>>81016172
call of dutys story usually just amounts to "brown people o noes" but yeah, ghosts is especially egregious with it.
>>81016688
But anon! Its called "Batman V Superman"! The "v" doesn't JUST mean "versus" Snyder says it means "SO MUCH MOAR!"
>>81016796
The only one that can get away with that adolescent DEEP AND DARK bullshit is fucking Batman.
Fucking SUPERMAN is not deep and dark. He is the ONE character that should have been light hearted feel good fluff with kick ass action scenes.
Snyder is good at what he does, IF he has a good writer and some of the scenes in MoS are really trully beautiful but he needs someone to reign him in and he needs a good damned script or find someone with the talent balls and understanding of what sells the character to the mainstream to do a good superman movie.
>>81017232
Yeah, nothing says mature and not grade school like peeing in someones drink.
>>81017232
If Marvel is grade school, DC would have to be Jr. High.
>emo kids going around being melodramatic
>reciting 2deep4u poetry about death and destruction
>constantly expecting to be taken seriously, while making a fucking fool of themselves
>>81017278
*but didn't the movie
>>81017222
Doesn't matter. When you add hints to a main focal point that all the other genre sharing movies managed to land sucessfully don't go around bitching when people complain that's it's absent.
With what Marvel has done to superhero movis humor is now as much as a staple as that one dumb girl is in horror movies
Zack Snyder is just a bad director. He's single handedly ruined DCs cinematic run.
>>81017267
AND...
>>81017197
>>81017246
But these movies aren't fun. They're 3 hour snoozefests.
>>81017257
Batman can still be dark while being accessible to younger audiences. Look at the animated series and Batman Beyond. I've never seen a batman movie come close to the quality of those series.
>>81017250
But Man of Steel was serious too and it didn't get as bad reviews as BvS. Also just look at the huge success of the Marvel Netflix tv shows, which are praised by critics for being dark and mature.
>>81017278
Nah, the Watchmen movie pretty much hit all the major beats and got the message across well enough, even if some good stuff was left out.
>>81017232
I think that may be DC's problem. They're trying to make Apocalypse Now: Underwear On The Outside, and it's obvious that DC is way outta their (Justice) league.
No, Zack Snyder is a horrible director that doesn't get any of the characters he's trying to adapt (See Watchmen, Man of Steel, 300 got lucky since it's pretty plain anyway)
Just let it go OP. Let's hope WB gets their act together and give us cool movies for the DC characters. Maybe Wonder Woman will be good (And they soft-reboot in that).
>>81017177
It was a grappling hook that was shot out of a rifle.
>>81017292
>adolescent
There is nothing childish or immature about wanting concepts and characters to be portrayed as realistic and believable rather then campy silly jokes.
>>81017292
>Fucking SUPERMAN is not deep and dark
In YOUR mother fucking opinion, people said the same thing when Batman went from Adam West to Burton.
Get this threw your thick fucking skull...
MAKING A PRODUCT FOR A DIFFERENT AUDIENCE THEN YOU DOES NOT MAKE THAT PRODUCT INVALID.
>>81017328
>obvious as fuck thatVeidtis the villain
>slow-motion, decadent fight scenes
>got rid of the squid, which defeats the point
u avin a giggle?
>>81017250
>people will never ever accept a serious Superman
A "serious" Superman? People accept that already. People don't expect Supes to act like Tony Stark.
What people don't want is broody, ruthless, joyless, batman-ish Superman.
>>81016938
Nah, he was a shit director. The guy couldn't direct an action scene to save his life. In addition, the guy is a fucking machine. He has no comprehension of actual human emotions and is completely incapable of getting his actors to convey believable emotions.
>>81017326
I think there's a difference between being "serious dark" and "literally and figuratively dark" as is the case with BvS. Every trailer looks barren of color, like they partially greyscaled it, with the only light coming from bats' robosuit visor thing. It just looks unappealing.
>>81017263
I agree but to be fair we haven't actually seen the movie
I wouldn't say all that based on some reviews
>>81017326
The people that do hate mos act like it is the fucking anti Christ of movies.
The most worrying part for me is that even the fresh reviews seem a bit disappointed.
>It so badly wants you to be excited for "Justice League" that it forgets to keep you excited about "Batman v Superman."
>The movie's not bad but it doubles down on its least-interesting and potent elements at the expense of those that actually work.
>Ponderous, but the tone and the cast hold our interest
>Goosebumps are inevitable when the two icons finally face off, and there are some spectacular clobberings dispensed, but it doesn't feel like, as Lex pitches it, "the greatest gladiator battle in the history of the world".
>>81017125
>Is BvS really that bad?
Apparently, yes.
>>81017344
Not adhering to your preference in the character of Superman DOES NOT MEAN HE DOES NOT "GET" THE FUCKING CHARACTER!
People and characters and how they are interpreted are SUBJECTIVE, look it up.
>>81017387
>Ozy
>villain
Looks like you missed the point, bucko.The villain is humanity's lust for war.
>>81017150
'Fun' is the end, and 'epic, mythic and awe-inspiring' are the means to that end. For example:
>300 was a fun film, because it was epic, mystic and awe-inspiring.
>Clash of the Titans was a fun film, because it was epic, mystic and awe-inspiring.
>Lord of the Rings was a fun film, because it was epic, mystic and awe-inspiring.
She's saying that it wasn't fun. Not that it wasn't funny. That it wasn't fun.
Think in your head what the opposite of 'fun' is. 'Epic' and fun are not mutually exclusive. The opposite of fun would be 'boring'.
She's saying it's boring, regardless of any symbolism or mythology. I hate to be patronising but jesus christ
>>81017150
>Or its meant to be epic, mythic and awe inspiring.
How god damn pretentious does one have to be to actually aim for this?
Its so hard to filter rt threads
>>81017364
1.The very concept of the modern superhero is fucking childish you damned loon. A modern take on the superhero would have to rebuilt from the ground up not slathered onto adolescent escapist fantasy.
Secondly. Name one single SINGLE instance of a super serious superman show or movie that has ever caught on. Just one.
Hell, name two dark superman stories that have caught on with the public and define the characters existence.
>>81017364
When you consistently suck at it and get shit reviews? You might want to rethink the whole I wanna be different thing before you're the last one on the sinking ship
>>81017303
Nah, Zack Snyder is not good at storytelling or characters, but even he couldn't single-handedly sink something like this. He's had two screenwriters, he has editors. Most importantly, he's got probably a whole flock of producers and execs who could've realized that hey, maybe turning a Superman sequel into a Batman & Superman vehicle and then into a Trinity vehicle, and then piling on a bunch of other cameos, all in the hands of a guy who, again, is not a great storyteller is maybe a bad idea. A lot of balls were dropped during the making of this. You only have to look at the production history to see this is a clusterfuck.
That said, it's not really a flop until it actually, well, flops, i.e. does bad box office, which it still might not. If it makes decent money, they'll probably count it in the plus column because quality is not the primary concern.
I think Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman might both be received better though, because they have a tighter focus and don't try to be 5 things at once. (And yeah, no Snyder will probably help.)
>>81017387
>got rid of the squid, which defeats the point
kek
e
k
is this a pasta?
>>81017388
>What people don't want is broody, ruthless, joyless, batman-ish Superman.
Earth One selling good enough to get 3 volumes says otherwise. And I say that as someone who is not a fan of EO's Superman characterization wise.
>People don't expect Supes to act like Tony Stark.
No they expect him to literally be fucking Santa Clause meets a small child in terms of niaveity and irrational perception that humanity is good when it so is fucking not.
>>81017115
>the world is a dark and miserable place. And it is the responsibility of all art to reflect that.
Well then BvS should be the most critically acclaimed film of all time.
Also, get some fucking perspective on the world if that's what you honestly think.
>>81017440
>How god damn pretentious does one have to be to actually aim for this?
Its pretentious to want to portray god like beings in power and in culture in a god like manner?
Really?
>>81017475
>that humanity is good when it so is fucking not
Bro ow what did I say about that edge
>>81016537
Everyone thinks Hollywood is liberal but movie studios are silly-conservative, most of them will only mime what has worked before and what has worked before for WB has been Batman movies. These people cannot and will not think outside the box, and the box they find themselves in is exceedingly small.
Green Lantern bombed? Obviously it was because it wasn't grimdark like Batman. Not that it was a shitty movie.
Man of Steel didn't live up to expectations so they full-bore with the idea, screw Man of Steel 2, its now Superman and Batman Team-Up. Wait, Batman and Superman Team-Up, don't bury the lead! Wait, thats closer but sounds too fun, "Batman v Superman", perfect.
I swear to Christ, the JLA movie will end up being called Batman and his Batmazing Friends.
Dark works for some characters. Not so much for Superman, not so much for most of the DC property stable. Ironically, most of Marvel's characters would be a better fit for WB's playbook, and DC's classically over-the-top characters a better fit for Marvel's fun style.
>>81017428
>The villain is humanity's lust for war.
Manhattan pls go and stay go.
>>81017171
Wait , why the fuck would being caught by Batman get you beaten up in prison? Especially if this version may outright just kill you?
>>81017512
>epic, mythic and awe inspiring
>god like beings in power and in culture
pffff, oh my god this is hilarious
>>81017543
>>81017543
Climate change, not global warming my nigga
>>81017364
>people said the same thing when Batman went from Adam West to Burton.
Tim Burton's Batman film was released in 1989
Arkham Asylum was released in 1989
Batman: the Killing Joke was released in 1988
Batman: the Dark Knight Returns was released in 1986
those are just the examples that come to mind, but Batman has always been about fear
your reasoning is the most bizarre I've seen in a while.. do you really think that Batman only became grimdark when Tim Burton made a film about him?
>>81017526
There are quite a few heroes that work well in darker material. Daredevil is fucking fantastic. Its just a matter of sorting out what tone works with what hero. Like, you wouldn't put Kamala Khan in a neo noir vigilante movie. Save that shit for Daredevil or The Punisher.
>>81017543
One of those is not like the others
>>81017433
>she saying it isn't fun
And who is this bitch, The queen of fun and entertainment? I'm gonna wait and actually see the film and not let some critic dictate what I would find entertaining.
>>81017565
Pretentious Snyderposters are some of my favorite anons on /co/
>>81017390
Apparently he can make a better batman movie
>>81017512
Yes? Because them you lose the audience appeal to sympathize with the characters and care about their problems. This is how snooze fests are created. When at the end of the movie you realize you had no emotional attachment to the character. You can't just bank on the brand. There are plenty of poorly written Batman/Superman stories that don't sell because of this very problem. Hell there are a shit ton of franchises that fall in this hole by making their MCs holier than thou.
Rule 1 of any sort of characterization is to make me give a fuck about them. Fail that and the rest it's just spinkles on a shit cone.
>>81017468
Dude, let's be honest. The WW film isn't happening.
It's over.
None of the other films are happening. They're over too.
The only one that's not being shat on right now is SS. And it happens to have both amazing star power and looks to be the kind of fun that BvS just isn't.
>>81017475
Buddy boy, those are comics that are being sold to comic stores. Not actual people out in the real world BUYING those comics. That means fuck and all.
Secondly, superman can not change his core that much.
To do that would be to invalidate the character and lose everything that makes him who he is and marketable.
This was a bad descision and I'm honestly hoping some people get fired because of it.
>>81017455
>Secondly. Name one single SINGLE instance of a super serious superman show or movie that has ever caught on. Just one.
STAS, otherwise no other Superman movie or show has been serious before.
>Hell, name two dark superman stories that have caught on with the public and define the characters existence.
Earth One sense it sold well enough to get 3 volumes.
Him in TDKReturns defined him possibly in a negative way to being 2nd fiddle to Batman.
Regardless a product does not have to please the entirety of the people that will see it to be worth existing for those that will be pleased.
We got 5 campy bright silly Superman movies, there is not a SINGLE fucking reason for them to not give fans of the opposite a chance.
>>81017456
>When you consistently suck at it and get shit reviews?
But he did not suck at it, people criticized that Snyder CHOSE to make a serious Superman regardless of how well he made it.
>>81015995
I wanted a 100 minute adaptation of Lex Luthor: Man of Steel, that also spends some time building up lore of the DC Cinematic Universe a little more.
Wasn't WW's appearance supposed to be like a 3rd act twist thing?
Why is it in the trailers?
This image has never seemed more appropriate.
>>81017603
WW is already filming. They're over the hill of development and into suck cost. They're gonna release it whether they like it or not.
>>81017658
You can't blame DC Comics for something WB has done
>>81017399
I hate it because it is the worst depiction of Superman and the characters entire mythology.
Unless it's an Elseworlds story, never in a million years has Superman been shown as anything but what people should aspire to be. MoS attempted to create a new interpretation of the character that was completely untrue to the history of Superman. I am all for telling new stories and adapting elements of stories to create something exciting and new, but when the story completely misses the mark like MoS did, I cannot get behind it.
People want to make fun of the tone of some Marvel movies? That's fine, opinions are just what they are and I won't argue that. The core of pretty much every Marvel character we've seen in the movies and shows, what makes them who and what they are, is very close to the source material. That's all I care about.
No one can even argue that DC/WB don't get it, because they have had these characters for YEARS being awesome in the Justice League cartoons. Thinking that those depictions wouldn't translate to the masses are the thoughts of short-sighted morons who have no clue what they are doing.
>>81017580
>do you really think that Batman only became grimdark when Tim Burton made a film about him?
No but that is when non comic readers first saw him in a serious manner.
>>81017591
There is NOTHING pretentious about wanting witness the film equivalent of a Greek epic instead of something that looks and feels like a tv show.
>>81017689
The fuck we cant. Marvel was at least smart enough to keep some creative control over the properties they had regardless of adaption. The DCTV universe shows DC has some skill st this too, but are still too afraid of the big leagues after Green Lantern.
>>81017689
Well technically you can since DC was moved to WB headquarters in 2015. Once again the west coast has stolen a New York cultural Icon.
>>81017328
>even if some good stuff was left out.
Like what? The idiotic and forced giant vagina-faced octopus that came out of fucking no where? The random cut aways to forced foreshadowing, like the indian dude painting the vagina octopus and were obviously thrown in after the fact to make the form random ending seem more fluid?
I know I'm in the minority, but the movie was superior to the comic.
>>81017771
I still don't get what the point of the move was
man, it would've been awesome if this were good.
marvel would've had some competition and been forced to make only good movies instead of just good captain america movies
>Suicide Squad comes out
>takes itself less seriously and has some actualtriger warning:fun
>best reviewed DC movie since TDK
>mfw jokes and quips will be what saves the DCCU
Prepare for it.
It's gonna be glorious.
>>81017696
>another year of supesfags having their heads up their assess
Y'know what? Fuck Superman as an inspiration. I would rather see Superman get bumped down to being a Z-list character than having to hear how Synder has failed to capture the infallibility of your golden idol.
>>81015288
dc is kill
>>81017599
>Yes? Because them you lose the audience appeal to sympathize with the characters and care about their problems
Except MOS made Clark sympathetic the entire course of the film, his battles being epic and godly in scale do not diminish that.
>>81017603
>Secondly, superman can not change his core that much.
MOS did not change his core whatsoever.
His core is that he inherently wants to do good and save people that is fully intact in mos. Hesitation for outside concerns does not diminish his intent and wish it makes him a naturally conflicted non naive human being.
Why is everyone so quick to blame Snyder if the movie is as bad as all the critics are saying? Most of the complaints I've seen so far lie with the script, written by Terrio and Affleck. I don't think either of them would allow Snyder to make big changes such as Batman killing or using guns. I mean that is a defining trait of the character, and has been for decades. That means the writers decided to take this direction.
>>81017590
um idk she's the person we were arguing about
>>81017638
>STAS, otherwise no other Superman movie or show has been serious before.
Did you actually watch STAS or did you just skim over a few eps.
It was dark but it was realistic dark, not OH GOD ERREYTHING SO GRIM AND DAHK SO MUCH CORRUPTION PEOPLE AM SO EBUL AND UNTRUSTWORTHY
For fucks sake, the mr.myxplyk ep was one of the most hilarious eps of a dc cartoon I've ever seen.
Shit, you didn't even bring up the fleischer cartoons.
Look, stupid. This is how it is.
The serious tone that superman took in the MoS movie and even in the Returns movies were BAD.
They want adventurous action movies with a good relatable person as the lead. Not the shit they were handed.
>Earth One sense it sold well enough to get 3 volumes.
Him in TDKReturns defined him possibly in a negative way to being 2nd fiddle to Batman.
The comic is yet a fucking NOTHER dark superman comic. Who fucking cares. We've seen that archetype so fucking much that it's a bigger fucking trope then the flying brick super being.
Making superman into a crappy version of the evil supermen that everyone has seen so much over the past fifty fucking years is not new or unique or cool or interesting. It's boring and awful.
People don't want that. They wanted the kind of superman that lives in the public conscious on screen fighting lex luthor and bizarro, and doomsday, and braniac. To have the smallville roots, and good parents, and good parents that sent him from krypton.
THAT KIND OF SHIT.
There nothing wrong with a serious take, but the serious take is thematically WRONG for the character. Not only is it thematically wrong it was badly handled intellectually and morally offensive as well.
I like parts of it but the overall package is so bad.
>>81017526
>Dark works for some characters. Not so much for Superman, not so much for most of the DC property stable.
The worst part it seems, is that in order to make Batman darker than MoS Superman, they had to outright make Batman kill ruthlessly. I was really hoping to see Batman being more moral than Superman for once, it would have been an interesting change of pace at least. But no.
>>81015797
Alien vs Predator 2.
>>81015848
Are you high? This movie is many things, but it is definitely not for children.
>>81017746
>Greek epic
Holy shit my sides. Do you really think this? Have you ever actually read any of those supposed "epics"? They are laced with some of the most crude humor you would see for centeries. Every chacacter, even the GODS which you keep shilling about, had human flaws that reflected human problems and solutions to them.
Come back when your English teacher moves on to Catcher of the Rye, because I know now you're just some under age highs Choo shit who's gonna have one shitty life ahead if him.
>listening to Film critics
Holy shit do you guys actually do this? Professional critics are a joke and anyone who puts more stock in their opinion than their own are morons.
>>81017805
I don't even like Superman, but my point is that the character itself is supposed to be someone people can look up to. He's supposed to be the hero all the other heroes (even Bats) looks up to.
The version Snyder/WB are trying to sell people is completely off the mark in regards to the history of the character and fans longer than just the animated shows or even the Reeve movies.
>>81017696
>never in a million years has Superman been shown as anything but what people should aspire to be
1.) MOS's universe IS a Elseworld, all movies are.
2.) We should not aspire to be someone who would give themselves over to horrible people to save possibly billions of people in danger?
We should not aspire to be someone who will fly headfirst into danger of death to save 7-8 Billion people?
We should not aspire to be someone who will made hard choices to save people presently in mortal danger along with many more that may be in danger if the situation continues?
>>81015797
Kramer vs. Kramer.
>>81017808
>Except MOS made Clark sympathetic the entire course of the film, his battles being epic and godly in scale do not diminish that.
You are confusing pathetic with sympathetic. Clark doesn't stop fucking up the entire movie. Even the climax, his victory, feels like another failure.
I shouldn't feel like the world would be a much better place had the protagonist never been born at the end of a Superman movie.
>>81017831
How can we know if she is a pleb or a patrician?
>>81017129
>This would be a valid argument back in the 80s when Superman was the only character getting adapted, Today we have so many super hero films diversity of tone should not only be welcome it is necessary.
DC seems so concerned with the relevancy of Superman that they have forgotten to tell a compelling story with him.
>You can't hold something against a film when that something was never ever the intent of the creators.
I can absolutely hold something against a film.
>Its like calling a knife a failure because it does not hold liquid like a spoon.
Sounds like you've played knifey-spoony before!
>>81017871
Then why are did they call a movie for adults "Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice" ?
>>81017193
They were grim, but fun to watch. I think the term "fun" is a misnomer for enjoyment.
im gonna see this on friday
is really that bad?
>>81017808
>Except MOS made Clark sympathetic the entire course of the film, his battles being epic and godly in scale do not diminish that.
Sympathetic? You'd have to be an actual person to be that.
He's an emotional punching bag that gets a lot of crazy shit dumped on him and is dragged kicking and screaming to multiple fucking places to do the superhero thing.
He's not sympathetic. He's barely human.
>>81017603
>MOS did not change his core whatsoever.
His core is that he inherently wants to do good and save people that is fully intact in mos. Hesitation for outside concerns does not diminish his intent and wish it makes him a naturally conflicted non naive human being.
He watched his insane father commit suicide by tornado.
>>81017871
You tell him!
It's for mature adults like us who understand deep, complex situations, like the ones in this film.
Right, bud?
>>81017961
>He's not sympathetic. He's barely human.
Thats the point.
>>81015288
As expected, shoehorning so much thing to catch up with marvel make this kino worst than IM2 that did the same thing. Not only that some of shit cast and hack snyder made this worse
>>81017892
Do you mean this scene from Birdman?
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4d5KovCbU8w
But really, people on 4chan are over reacting like always. Its just a fucking movie and the emotional atachament to it is patethic. Also it will hardly bomb.
For people all like "MARVELFAGS AND MUH QUIPS" i think you're all missing what made the marvel movies work.
It's not about them being funny, or having memes, or the quips, or at least thsoe aren't the progenitors of their success. What makes those things happen and makes the movies so well recieved is that more effort is put torwards making these superheroes characters. I'm not talking about making them uber complex or anything like that but each of these people in the MCU have clear definable traits that are in someway endearing or interesting to make you give a fuck about what happens.
The Dark Knight wasn't so well recieved because it was dark and brooding and "gritty" (even if people liked that) It was well recieved because the joker was such a fucking character. Even though dark knight rises was garbage people still remember it and meme it because bane was such a character.
With MoS and this BvS movie, these guys don't feel like characters at all, they feel more like vehicles to move whatever concept zack wants to get across. you can replace superman in man of steel with jesus, or litterally ANY person stronger than humans and the movie could go largely unchanged and be the same. you can replace batman with any edgy musclehead and he'd be the same in this film. Hell the movie might as well be Jesus vs The Punisher.
This is why DC should just stay animated. At least their they always put in the effort to make these guys characters and not just "ugh so edgy and complex plot" vehicles
>>81017961
what are you saying here because it doesn't make sense...
>>81017904
What good is being an icon when you can only have your story in a specific way anon?
>>81016500
No amount of good writing can save a film if the director is shit.
Not saying this has good writing but it's ridiculous to not blame Snyder for it.
>>81017983
>>He's not sympathetic. He's barely human.
>Thats the point.
It's critical failure of characterization.
>>81017808
>Except MOS made Clark sympathetic the entire course of the film, his battles being epic and godly in scale do not diminish that
>my father fucking killed himself so the evil government wouldn't experiment on my alien add
>I can totes beat up these bullies but like a normal human I'm hiding by power level
>My people have leveled a city but I can only decide to make the hard desicion when I can actually look them in the eye
That not fucking sympathy. Those are damn plot points. They never delved deep enough into any of their setups to make something stick. Clark was never shown ostracized when the town fouls out about him. He met Lois and within the hour she was already in his dick. The end of the movie ended with people calling him Superman and saying "he's hot". They didn't show why in the fuck Clark had any problems that he didn't put himself into
>>81017543
Legit get some fucking perspective
>It's the 1930's
>Most horrific war in history has ended: 38 million dead. It looks like another is one the way
>Spanish Flu killed millions more after the war
>Domestic Terrorism occurring across the world - including semi-consistent attacks within first world countries
>Communist revolution provides a model for those who desire to destroy democracy, and it's popular.
>Great Depression in full swing
>Fascists in power in Italy, civil-war in Spain, most of continental Europe is exceedingly unstable.
>Monstrous civil war occurring in China
>Thousands of people die every day due to gun violence, preventable diseases, deaths in childbirth, racial killings, etc.
>Race riots, socialist protests, paramilitary displays all occurring every month or so
>some of this will get worse before it gets better.
You can do this for pretty much any moment in human history, draw out all the major problems so that the end of the world looks near, or at the very least we look fucked. At the end of the day, you're a gloomy idiot if you think this is somehow the worst, or that we won't be able to move past this. Look at your immediate neighbourhood and ask yourself if these people right now really have such awful lives.
>>81015288
>people come to the movie expecting to see batman and superman be badass and fight with lex pulling strings behind them
>instead get a kitchen sink of every dc property in the history of comic books hastily shoved into one movie
>zomg why is marvel doing so much better than us?!?!?! ;CCCCC
>>81017960
>im gonna see this on friday
>is really that bad?
It's boring for long stretches, which is like the worst possible outcome for a film like this.
Stupid is one thing, but boring is just poor film making.
>>81017837
>Did you actually watch STAS or did you just skim over a few eps.
>It was dark but it was realistic dark
I loved it even more then BTAS as a kid.
>not OH GOD ERREYTHING SO GRIM AND DAHK SO MUCH CORRUPTION PEOPLE AM SO EBUL AND UNTRUSTWORTHY
I don't feel this is what we got, I felt the tone we got was perfectly realistic and not edgy at all.
>Shit, you didn't even bring up the fleischer cartoons.
That was long before the general characterization of Superman was set in stone, its like citing the Shadow rip off the original Batman was with 2 1911s.
>They want adventurous action movies with a good relatable person as the lead.
I feel that is exactly what we got.
>Making superman into a crappy version of the evil supermen that everyone has seen so much over the past fifty fucking years is not new or unique or cool or interesting. It's boring and awful.
In your opinion, I was begging for it.
And taking him seriously has nothing to do with liking the evil variations on Superman, I hate Injustice for example.
>>81017837
>and morally offensive as well.
Its morally offensive to be someone who would give themselves over to horrible people to save possibly billions of people in danger?
Its morally offensive to be someone who will fly headfirst into danger of death to save 7-8 Billion people?
Its morally offensive to be someone who will made hard choices to save people presently in mortal danger along with many more that may be in danger if the situation continues?
>>81018029
An icon is an icon because it represents a very specific thing or few things. Not something that is the complete opposite.
The biohazard symbol does not also mean fun candy happy times.
>>81017983
Then they've missed the point entirely and stepped into being completely fucking retarded territory.
>>81017904
>this is what supesfags actually believe
Fuck you anon. You and the rest of the faggots who think any story where Superman face any conflict is blasphemy. We don't movies or read comics to see Superman saving cats from trees, we do it to see him wrestle with evil.
>>81018086
Oh you seen the film And not just parroting what the critics say?
>>81017886
>had human flaws that reflected human problems and solutions to them.
Just as MOS's Superman did.
I'm not asking for Clark to be characterized as a god, I'm asking for him power and action wise to be shown to be one physically and I am asking for his effect on the world to be like a God.
>>81018029
Do you fail to comprehend what my point was? The story can be told any number of ways, but the history of the character should be respected and this version is very much NOT a version of Superman that I could possibly root for.
Again, I don't even LIKE Superman, but I respect characters and their histories. So when something like MoS and now this, to me, are so different from how the character should be portrayed, yeah...i'm not going to enjoy it.
>>81018066
and DC fags everywhere not just on 4chan even outside usa defend this shit
these people said I am too dumb to understand this flick even though I just pointed out how shoving so much shit will messed up the narative and confusing the audience
Hey, remember when people used to say DC is too wacky and unrealistic compared to Marvel?
I can't wait for the Captain Marve- I mean Shazam movie that's two hours of the movie trying to teach a half-assed speech about growing up despite the superhero being a fucking kid who magically becomes an adult.
>showing batman origin for bazilion times instead introducing other heroes that being shoved into this shit
>>81018186
How is it that Marvel, the company that defined itself with more realistic takes on superheroes has better true heroes than DC nowadays?
>>81018057
>these are plot plots!
There not. Please don'tuse words willy nilly anon just to prove your non existent point.
This seriously fucking depresses me....I imagine I'm not alone
>>81018107
No, we read/watch Superman to see him BEAT evil in a morally superior way that hilights the good we can all do. Not get draged in the dirt and spit on because we're too scared to to to better ourselves as people.
>>81017172
Transformers gets near identical shit reviews.
>>81018208
>Marvel has better true heroes
Name one.
And don't say Cap because Bendis has him supporting Minority Report.
>>81018249
Kamala Khan.
>>81017982
>The "v" is there because it's not an actual "vs." It's more like a trial.
Is Batman suing the Daily Planet for leaking that sex tape?
>>81018244
>No, we read/watch Superman to see him BEAT evil in a morally superior way that hilights the good we can all do.
>muh all star supes
>muh superior silver age
I bet you haven't read a single Superman comic aside from those.
>>81018208
Because they don't give a shit about one superhero to carry the company, even though they have the world's first superhero who's supposed to be the goddamn most iconic one?
anyone who's not fanatic braindead can see it coming
>>81018057
>misinterpreting the film so you can shit on it
>>81018278
Not a true hero. She's a kid with a false idol playing at a hero with a quirky personality.
>>81018278
Fan fic writer detected
>>81017914
>You are confusing pathetic with sympathetic. Clark doesn't stop fucking up the entire movie
He never fucked up beyond slamming into the 711 and jumping over the oil truck. Activating the scout ship was what any rational person would do to keep it out of the hands of the military and to possible discover his entire destiny/legacy and nature.
>>81017914
>I shouldn't feel like the world would be a much better place had the protagonist never been born at the end of a Superman movie.
If you think that your a fucking idiot, Zod is sentient being with the ability to make his own fucking choices.
>>81017933
>DC seems so concerned with the relevancy of Superman that they have forgotten to tell a compelling story with him.
MOS was incredibly compelling to some.
>>81017961
>He's an emotional punching bag that gets a lot of crazy shit dumped on him and is dragged kicking and screaming to multiple fucking places to do the superhero thing.
No....... not even fucking remotely, he decided after discovering Jor-El to reveal himself and accept his place to better mankind, Zod's appearance just sped up the process.
He surrendered to the military of his own will.
He let himself be transferred to Zod of his own will.
>He watched his insane father commit suicide by tornado.
Nothing insane about knowing how horrible the world is and not wanting to make it worse by causing giant social upheavals along with putting your sons life and future in danger.
>>81018135
Then see my point here
>>81018057
And then go read fucking Superior. I come for Superman stories set in a fictional world, which is what we have been doing for 75 years. Not for fucking fanfiction tier shit that people write about popular characters because the only way they think it'll sell is to bank off the brand without any regard to what has already been set in stone with the franchise.
>>81018318
apparently thwarting HYDRA mind control plots just doesn't count for anyone who isn't Captain America
>>81018174
Your point seems to be that MoS didn't do exactly what you want and therefore it's shit.
>>81017115
Okay Timothy go back to your room and study for your geometry test, I won't have my little man get a C!
>discussing other people's opinions
This place has officially hit rock bottom
